General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHow much exposure to the Ebola virus
would be necessary to contract the disease?
This guy got here on the 20th, became symptomatic on the 24th, and was finally admitted on the 28th. If he had gone to a mall, maybe sneezed into a paper napkin, or wiped his mouth on it, and then a table bus-person with a hangnail picked his stuff up, would that be enough to transmit?
Really would like to know. We hear about healthcare workers, or people who handle the dead contracting the disease, but could even minimal exposure cause transmissionn?
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)you have to have a liquid from the victim enter through a cut or orafice.
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)Seriously, thanks.
LisaL
(47,423 posts)You don't need "a lot."
Dr. Brantly still doesn't know how he got it. He was in protective equipment when in contact with patients and still got infected.
DeadLetterOffice
(1,352 posts)Since your posts about ebola & it's spread have been so definitive...
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)A sneeze or a cough would not really do it unless you were coughing into their mouths. Poverty is what causes the spread of this virus. The flu is much more of a threat in this country.
YarnAddict
(1,850 posts)I think we fear the flu less because most of us have had it, felt like crap for a couple of days, and then recovered with no longterm effects.
Ebola just sounds--horrendous.
LisaL
(47,423 posts)Patrick Sawyer flew to Nigeria and managed to infect a whole bunch of people there.
So if this guy was symptomatic on the 24th, he could have infected a lot of people during the four day period before being admitted.
Texasgal
(17,240 posts)Ebola is NOT an airborne virus.
- People contract Ebola through contact with bodily fluids or blood of an infected person.
- Early symptoms of Ebola include fever, headache, body aches, cough, stomach pain, vomiting and diarrhea. Other illnesses, such as influenza or malaria, are often ruled out before Ebola testing.
- Chlorine disinfection, heat, direct sunlight, soaps and detergents can kill the Ebola virus.
- Ebola is only considered "moderately" contagious. Most people who have become infected with Ebola lived with or cared for an ill patient.
http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/health/2014/09/30/facts-ebola-fast-quic-virus-illness-dallas/16471377/
YarnAddict
(1,850 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)LisaL
(47,423 posts)It's much more easily contracted that this article would have you to believe.
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)IMO.
longship
(40,416 posts)Yes, it is quite contagious, but only through direct contact with bodily fluids. Proper procedures can easily protect care givers. Those same procedures exist in any hospital in the USA, and nearly none of the hospitals in West Africa. Hence, Ebola's spread there, and why it cannot spread here. That and issues which make for distrust of western medicine in West Africa for a variety of reasons , cultural, political, or religious (all very bad, in this case).
B2G
(9,766 posts)Texasgal
(17,240 posts)that MRSA is caused by the over use of antibiotics and sanitizers and that certain strains cannot be killed because of it. 
B2G
(9,766 posts)Because they can't control that despite the precautions you outline.
Texasgal
(17,240 posts)and to spot. Especially on people that have hot spots on areas of their bodies that cannot be seen. An also MRSA is a bacteria. Not a virus.
Ebola symptoms seem much more easily spotted after becoming symptomatic. Isolation units at large hospitals are pretty air tight. It's not perfect ofcourse.
Laffy Kat
(16,952 posts)Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus? It is a community acquired Staph that is difficult to treat. It is a bacterium, not a virus. Don't know what this has to do with Ebloa.
valerief
(53,235 posts)
uppityperson
(116,020 posts)longship put it well here...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5604788
valerief
(53,235 posts)uppityperson
(116,020 posts)glad you weren't, my apologies.
longship
(40,416 posts)For one MRSA is a bacterial infection and has become a problem because of overuse of antibiotics which have only ever had effects against bacteria, not ever viruses.
Ebola is a relatively new virus (1970's) not a bacteria. MRSA is staph, a bacteria. It stands for Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus. Staph has been around for a long, long time. It is a bacteria, subject to both antibiotics and evolving antibiotic resistance.
Ebola is a virus. Antibiotics are useless against it. There is no cure for Ebola whatsoever. All the clinics can do is treat symptoms and provide comfort and care. Still, about half who contract it die.
So, your post in this context has no relevance whatsoever.
Sorry, my friend.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)with a compromised immune system to pick up a staph infection in a hospital. By scrupulous - every person in contact with the patient washes their hands before touching the patient. By scrupulous - equipment (catheters, towels, bed rails, elevator buttons) in contact with the patient must be kept free of staph bacteria. Ever see a doctor wipe down the stethoscope before sticking it on someone's chest?
Most people carry some form(s) of staph around in their nose.
Staph bacteria can survive for months on some surfaces.
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/mrsa/
http://www.halton.ca/cms/one.aspx?pageId=9716
MRSA infections can be prevented, provided that the hospital is willing to spend money on training, housekeeping and enforcement of infection control. Although MRSA kills people in the US every day, I doubt that any hospital exerts the same kid of effort to control it that is not being applied to isolate Ebola victims in the US.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Has nothing to do with ease of transmission.
Accidents happen. People spill stuff. The gear ensures that such a spill doesn't infect someone.
840high
(17,196 posts)Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Also in the lab the concentration of virus is samples is very high. Level 4 has nothing to do with how easy it is to catch. Frankly, lower lever viruses kill vastly more humans then Ebola ever has.
You seem to have a big interest in the topic. So do I. If you would like a list of good reading materials on viruses, especially zoonotic ones, please let me know.
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)On a scale of 1-to-ISIS, where does the Ebola virus rank as a threat to the US?
longship
(40,416 posts)Unless Jenny McCarthy or RFK Jr becomes head of the CDC. Then we'd be in a world of hurt.
Relax. Little to no Ebola threat here unless you travel to West Africa.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)We should be 100% aware of the danger, we should have a gameplan, and we should be doing all we can to help the people already infected.
longship
(40,416 posts)And the borders are secure. When a flight comes into the country with a passenger from an Ebola country, screening is done. We may miss some, but there is something assuring and comforting about living in a country with a scientific medical infrastructure, at least as long as people like Jenny McCarthy and RFK Jr. are minimized and properly slapped down.
rustydog
(9,186 posts)more than needless fretting about ISIS or an Ebola outbreak in America.
Texasgal
(17,240 posts)That's my answer.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)FYI 
cali
(114,904 posts)YarnAddict
(1,850 posts)Fortunately, I think in this country, as a matter of course, we take precautions when dealing with the public--latex gloves on food servers, "sneeze guards" on buffets, etc.
Texasgal
(17,240 posts)concern during Flu season when thousands of people die because some yahoo decided to go to work or take the kids to school.
I cannot tell you how many times I've been in a grocery store or a public place during Flu season and some sick person is coughing up a lung near by! UGH!
YarnAddict
(1,850 posts)Unfortunately, a lot of people don't get sick time, and know that staying home while coughing and sneezing cuts into their pay, which they can't afford.
LisaL
(47,423 posts)Texasgal
(17,240 posts) Logical
(22,457 posts)YarnAddict
(1,850 posts)a lot of places are staffed so poorly that you can't get sick time, regardless.
Texasgal
(17,240 posts)The Flu should be taken seriously. It kills thousands of people a year.
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)He is from Liberia. Not the US. Maybe just a coincidence but .. Did he know he was exposed to Ebola in Nigeria & came to the USA because he knew his chances of surviving with treatment were greater in this country than Nigeria??!
Thanks a lot.
----News won't say what airlines or airport he arrived at in Texas, or what airport he originally arrived at in the US.
Dallas does not have a direct flight to or from Liberia. He arrived in the USA somewhere else, & either transferred to a Texas flight, or arrived in Dallas by car or other transportation.
News is not giving out those details.
YarnAddict
(1,850 posts)said his temp had been taken before he boarded the plane in Africa, and he would not have been contagious until he started showing symptoms--which was four days after arrival.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)The humanitarian argument is baloney. Senegal has opened up an air bridge. The military can fly personnel in even with a full suspension of commercial flights out. Supplies and help can get in. There is ZERO reason why we should be allowing travelers in willy-nilly from ground zero in the outbreak, until this is over. One guy in Nigeria killed how many people, before they got the lid on that?
The "ohhhh, heavens we simply couldn't enact a travel ban" argument is ridiculous. Suggesting that a temperature check and a form that basically says "Do you have ebola yes/no" is somehow an effective containment measure, is inane.
boston bean
(36,931 posts)I believe you are spot on. Stop travel to and from those areas.
That is an angle that doesn't get much play, unfortunately.
Warpy
(114,615 posts)his seatmates on the plane are pretty much in the clear. I'm sure the public health people (the few who have survived Republican budget cuts) are tracking them down and telling them to report to a hospital if they have any vomiting or diarrhea.
Nobody wants to start a panic. Panic is worse than most diseases.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)visit as to his recent flight from a country currently unable to contain the Ebola virus. He had just visited Liberia. He had to have know the seriousness of what it means. He also had to have had close contact with infected ppl there.
When he had symptoms & headed to the ER, he owed it to this hospital, its ER employees & this State & his family to do what he could to prevent the spread of the virus.
Local news says he did NOT inform the ER on the 1st visit.
My empathy goes as far as his empathy did that day.
I wish him well, as I do for anyone his silence may have also caused harm to, but his lack of serious concern in this case is an issue, certainly.
His ignorance in spreading this horrific virus is what bothers me. Its not about any lack of empathy.
I feel more empathy for the ER staff that treated him, hauled him by ambulance, the school kids now in quarantine, and anyone else who he spread it to, knowing better than any of us what the deadly conditions exist in Liberia. He had just come from there.
Thanks to him for not taking it as serious as he should have.
Guess we will know in a few weeks just how many others may have become casualties.
Thats where my sincere empathy lies.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EBOLA?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-10-01-13-24-13
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)when he went through airport screening and perhaps even when first seen by a doctor two days after he got sick.
People lie through their teeth to public health investigators. I know firsthand about what they can do and say and omit to scuttle investigation of deadly diseases.
THAT is the weak link with this thing.
apples and oranges
(1,451 posts)(or stay in denial).
And so it begins...
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)They are "followed" in an epidemiologic sense. Probably daily phone calls to inquire about any symptoms and to ask what the contact's body temperature was that day.
If they develop any symptoms, that's when they go into isolation, to observe, treat as needed, and test to see if it IS ebola.
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)Sad for all who are affected down the line..
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)dropped the ball and failed to inform the healthcare team of such.
GROSS negligence. That nurse needs to be made a fomer nurse right now.
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)to the hospital in liberia. She was sick with ebola symptoms & later the landlord also became sick.
Thats my problem with him. He knew he had been exposed. Headed out of the country to the USA & told no one.
He lived there. He well knew what to expect.
Yet he waited till he had symptoms & left the ER rather than tell anyone else there of the serious nature of his illness. What it possibly could be.
Yes i blame the ER communication process but he is still the one that knew what he was dealing with before anyone else had a clue.
Now local news says as many as 100 may have been in contact with him.
valerief
(53,235 posts)
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)Kinda makes you wonder where its going to show up next.
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)Just heard on local Dallas News.
Also this was his first visit 2 Dallas & he apparently has a girlfriend here with 5 kids. Who are also now quarantined at home.
Warpy
(114,615 posts)which is why it is still controllable here. Casual contact with blood or body fluids in an area with poor sanitation is more likely and all it takes is a break in the skin to transmit it. It is more transmissible than HIV, far less transmissible than Hepatitis B.
ER staff who didn't know what the guy had and used standard precautions will be shitting bricks for a couple of weeks unless he presented with obvious hemorrhagic illness and/or said it could be ebola and they suited up just in case.
I know if it had been me, I'd want to shower with bleach.
YarnAddict
(1,850 posts)say that he sought treatment a couple of days before he was admitted? If they let him leave that day, he couldn't have very specific symptoms.
That means he probably sat in an ER waiting room, maybe more than once. Bet everyone who visited the ER on those occasions are shitting bricks, too.
LisaL
(47,423 posts)Who knows how many people he potentially infected during that time.
YarnAddict
(1,850 posts)--if he felt sick enough to go to the ER, he probably didn't feel like stopping for ice cream on the way home.
Warpy
(114,615 posts)I doubt they had him wait in chairs.
YarnAddict
(1,850 posts)He didn't appear sick enough to be admitted then.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)LisaL
(47,423 posts)This claim is completely false. People become contagious once they start showing symptoms.
"The incubation period, or the time interval from infection to onset of symptoms, is from 2 to 21 days. The patients become contagious once they begin to show symptoms. They are not contagious during the incubation period."
http://www.who.int/csr/disease/ebola/faq-ebola/en/
morningfog
(18,115 posts)The full excerpt:
4. What are typical signs and symptoms of infection?
Sudden onset of fever, intense weakness, muscle pain, headache and sore throat are typical signs and symptoms. This is followed by vomiting, diarrhoea, rash, impaired kidney and liver function, and in some cases, both internal and external bleeding.
Laboratory findings include low white blood cell and platelet counts, and elevated liver enzymes.
The incubation period, or the time interval from infection to onset of symptoms, is from 2 to 21 days. The patients become contagious once they begin to show symptoms. They are not contagious during the incubation period.
Ebola virus disease infections can only be confirmed through laboratory testing.
And:
Infection occurs from direct contact through broken skin or mucous membranes with the blood, or other bodily fluids or secretions (stool, urine, saliva, semen) of infected people.
In other words, until their symptoms are puking, bleeding and shitting, they are not spreading the virus. You won't catch it from someone with a fever, weakness, muscle pain and headache, unless you happen to be playing with their shit or semen.
LisaL
(47,423 posts)Sweat is a body fluid.
Tears are body fluid.
Saliva is a body fluid.
They don't have to bleed or vomit to transmit it.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)YarnAddict
(1,850 posts)You have contact with bodily fluids if you shake someone's sweaty hand. Or if they sneeze on you. Or cough. Gross, yes, but unavoidable in many situations.
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)Chart how often you touch your face during a 24 hour period.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Okay. I'll start counting now.
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)Your mouth, eyes, nose, they are all avenues to infection.
The virus is transmitted via all bodily fluids, not just feces and no information from any health organization or university is claiming it is -only- transmitted via blood and feces. It also remains on objects for an indeterminate amount of time, so theoretically if someone was in the early stages of the infection and sweating up a storm and handed you an item, and you touched that item, if you did not wash your hands before touching a mucous membrane opens up a chance to be infected.
Just because it is not airborne does not mean it is hard to transmit like HIV.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Your theoretical is not true.
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)What does “direct contact” mean?
Direct contact means that body fluids (blood, saliva, mucus, vomit, urine, or feces) from an infected person (alive or dead) have touched someone’s eyes, nose, or mouth or an open cut, wound, or abrasion.
What are body fluids?
Ebola has been detected in blood and many body fluids. Body fluids include saliva, mucus, vomit, feces, sweat, tears, breast milk, urine, and semen.
How long does Ebola live outside the body?
Ebola is killed with hospital-grade disinfectants (such as household bleach). Ebola on dried on surfaces such as doorknobs and countertops can survive for several hours; however, virus in body fluids (such as blood) can survive up to several days at room temperature.
---
If an infected person is sweaty and their sweat touches an item that you also touch within a few hours and you touch a mucous membrane you are at risk for infection.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Clearly you are looking for a reason that isnt there. Your choice.
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)I illustrate the reality of the situation and you just double down and say I'm worried? The hell?
As I told someone else, it is OK to be mistaken about facts, it happens to everyone.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)You vastly overstate the contagiousness of ebola. The people who get infected are those who either live with the person or are treating them when they are very very ill. It is when they are spewing puke, shit and blood that others are infected. That is the reality. It does not spread casually or by sweat rags left around a public place. That is absolutely asinine to place that fear out there. Educate yourself.
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)If you don't want to listen to those organizations I don't know what to tell you.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Link to a report where someone was infected causally. Link to a story where someone was infected ha not been living with an infected person, was not treating the person or was not in direct physical contact with a severely ill person. Show me where that has happen. There have been some 6,000 cases just this year, surely you can show that one of those was a casual infection, by a sweaty rag in a resturaunt, right?
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)The ability to precisely pinpoint where people are being infected is extremely limited in west Africa and is mostly confined to determining who people were last in contact with, and even in this case organizations like the CDC are saying it is spotty and likely being under reported. You are essentially asking me to come up with information not even the WHO or CDC reliably has.
However, it is known direct contact with bodily fluids will infect you if it touches a mucous membrane. If you shake someone hands who is infected and they are sweaty you are at risk of infection. If that same sweat is on an object and you touch it in whatever timeframe Ebola is still viable for, you are at risk for an infection. These are known qualities of the infection and I don't see what is controversial in claiming what the CDC and WHO have openly stated on their websites and have been handing out to doctors in the field for infection control.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)There are literally hundreds of stories recounting how various people have become infected. They all trace back to caring for an extremely sick person or a dead body.
There is simply no evidence anywhere that a handshake has or even could transmit it. NONE.
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)The virus particles are found in sweat, if their hand is sweaty and you shake it you are being exposed to a bodily fluid just the same as if their hand was covered in blood. What about this are you not understanding?
Exposure to body fluids = exposure to the virus. Period. The only point of debate is how long it will linger on environmental objects but if something is being directly passed to and it is covered in sweat it is not a controversial point to state you are at risk by touching it, and thereby a bodily fluid.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)I'm done trying to help.
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)What about "direct exposure to bodily fluids" are you finding so elusive?
Hand covered in blood = exposure to bodily fluid.
Hand covered in tears = exposure to bodily fluid.
Hand covered in urine = exposure to bodily fluid.
Hand covered in saliva (reduced risk, admittedly, according to some research) = exposure to bodily fluid.
Hand covered in feces = exposure to bodily fluid.
Hand covered in sweat = exposure to bodily fluid.
Hand covered in vomit = exposure to bodily fluid.
If you shake someone's hand with any of these fluids on them = exposure to bodily fluid.
Exposure to bodily fluid = direct contact.
Direct contact with EVD = risk for infection
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)The CDC disagrees
http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/hcp/monitoring-and-movement-of-persons-with-exposure.html
Close contact
Close contact is defined as
being within approximately 3 feet (1 meter) of an EVD patient or within the patient’s room or care area for a prolonged period of time (e.g., health care personnel, household members) while not wearing recommended personal protective equipment (i.e., standard, droplet, and contact precautions; see Infection Prevention and Control Recommendations); or
having direct brief contact (e.g., shaking hands) with an EVD patient while not wearing recommended personal protective equipment.
Care to stop doubling down and being an obtuse jerk?
deutsey
(20,166 posts)BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)Symptoms: Sudden onset of fever, intense weakness, muscle pain, headache and sore throat are typical signs and symptoms.
THEN
vomiting, diarrhoea, rash, impaired kidney and liver function, and in some cases, both internal and external bleeding.
They are infectious from the first symptoms which includes the early stage (similar to a flu) AND the later acute stage.
Warpy
(114,615 posts)But yes, they'll be shitting bricks, too. As long as those bricks don't loosen up and become diarrhea, they will be fine. Most of them will be fine, period.
Ebola is a gastrointestinal virus that moves into the bloodstream. It's not an upper respiratory virus.
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)it doesn't linger in the air (not airborne) but if someone were to sneeze/cough on you directly or touch an object an infected person sneezed/coughed within a couple minutes on that would be enough.
Warpy
(114,615 posts)or putting droplets into the air via hurried linen changes.
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)Keep count how many times you touch your face during the day. If you were to have touched something an infected person did within a certain timeframe and then touch a mucous membrane you'll get infected too.
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)It is transmitted in -all bodily fluids-
"Unlike respiratory illnesses like measles or chickenpox, which can be transmitted by virus particles that remain suspended in the air after an infected person coughs or sneezes, Ebola is transmitted by direct contact with body fluids of a person who has symptoms of Ebola disease. Although coughing and sneezing are not common symptoms of Ebola, if a symptomatic patient with Ebola coughs or sneezes on someone, and saliva or mucus come into contact with that person’s eyes, nose or mouth, these fluids may transmit the disease."
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)can be blithe about that I will never understand.
Plus: "It's the FOMITES, stupid!"
Warpy
(114,615 posts)That should have been taken out and burned as soon as the patient died.
People are so desperately poor there that they want the bedding back.
It still doesn't spread the way epidemic diseases do because it's not an upper respiratory disease.
For now, it requires close contact with blood and body fluids.
Lars39
(26,540 posts)of sweat, too. Not sure people understand that here. smh
Warpy
(114,615 posts)BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)The virus is only absent in certain bodily fluids in asymptomatic animals like bats, in humans all the bodily fluids (yes, everything) are considered to have viral material which when paired with the very low amount of virions needed to induce infection means they are considered infectious.
Warpy
(114,615 posts)It's not an upper respiratory illness.
Period.
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)Means the virions are present, meaning they can enter another organism. It doesn't produce upper respiratory symptoms but this does not mean that fluids like saliva are not infectious.
I repeat: http://www.afro.who.int/en/clusters-a-programmes/dpc/epidemic-a-pandemic-alert-and-response/epr-highlights/3648-frequently-asked-questions-on-ebola-hemorrhagic-fever.html
"People can be exposed to Ebola virus from direct physical contact with body fluids like blood, saliva, stool, urine, sweat etc. of an infected person and soiled linen used by a patient."
http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/qas.html
"What does “direct contact” mean?
Direct contact means that body fluids (blood, saliva, mucus, vomit, urine, or feces) from an infected person (alive or dead) have touched someone’s eyes, nose, or mouth or an open cut, wound, or abrasion."
Response to YarnAddict (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
YarnAddict
(1,850 posts)
Response to YarnAddict (Reply #30)
Name removed Message auto-removed
YarnAddict
(1,850 posts)I think that's why the CDC doc did his best to quell any possible panic.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,160 posts)I have not heard of that.
It might explain some aspects of rapid spread.
Where/when did you hear of Canada info????
Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #31)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Hekate
(100,133 posts)Ebola is a hemorrhagic fever; that is, it causes blood vessels to break. You can look up the details.
The key difference between the US/Europe and the African nations is that if we send health care workers out to -- you know -- help and inform the public, you can be assured the health care workers won't be murdered by those they are trying to help.
Even with our current somewhat degraded public health infrastructure, we are light years ahead of those poor souls. As far as I can tell from news reports, they have no public health infrastructure worth the name. It's not just having hospitals and doctors, it's having a public information base you can build on and a means of transmitting further information.
If you or a family member comes down with the flu (for instance), you can choose to wear a disposable face mask and disposable latex gloves. If they are coughing, it might be a good idea if they wore a face mask as well. But your first line of defense during cold and flu season is to wash your hands and to keep your hands away from your face, mouth, and eyes.
In this country we have the know-how and the means to combat a disease like Ebola. We understand medical isolation and can carry it out. We have disposable gloves and masks, and incinerators to burn them in. We can provide support measures like hydration and blood transfusions. When someone dies, the family typically does not hang around with the body, washing and dressing it themselves, nor do they panic and leave it in the street. Public health laws could very likely be called into play to require that only professionals handle the bodies of those who died of a highly infectious disease, up to and including cremation over the religious objections of some.
This is all very unlike what we are seeing out of Africa. Just for starters, everything we think of as single-use (gloves, masks, body suits) has to be washed and re-used because they don't have any to spare.
The news that this disease has arrived is scary, but not unexpected and not panic-worthy.
YarnAddict
(1,850 posts)what exactly our military is going to be doing in Africa? Are they going to be protecting healthcare workers? Establishing some version of martial law?
Hekate
(100,133 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)rustydog
(9,186 posts)Good God, a person from AFRICA came to Texas and was diagnosed with Ebola...Guess where he contracted it?
This disease, so far, is limited to countries with HORRID healthcare. The victims are family members or close friends who have close daily contact (that is why physicians wear the hazard suits when contacting patients) Even those physicians, after seeing untold number of dying Ebola victims run the risk of contracting the disease. It is from the close daily contact
I am sure that more cases will pop up in America, I am confident most if not ALL of them will be from people who came here from the devastated regions that have contributed to the spread of this deadly disease there.
Concern is ok, panic serves no good purpose.
DeadLetterOffice
(1,352 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Viruses have a nasty habit of mutating, though.
LisaL
(47,423 posts)If took a lot, there wouldn't be a reason for doctors and nurses to suit up, or keep the patients in isolation units.
It takes very little.
Drop of fluid is all it takes.
WillowTree
(5,350 posts)Might I ask what your area of expertise is? And please don't read anything into the question because I mean nothing untoward by it. You're just so assertive about it that I wonder where your self-assuredness about the topic comes from.
rustydog
(9,186 posts)These two items below are from a quick search: is flu more contagious than Ebola...guess what? IT IS!
Our infectious disease physician at my hospital sent us a letter three weeks ago explaining the transmission of Ebola and how low the risk of an outbreak is in America. People on DU need to calm down a bit. It is a threat, but the Flu kills more people in this country.
"...Ebola "doesn't spread very efficiently through humans," Dr. Amesh Adalja, an infectious disease specialist from the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center and the Center for Health Security, told Business Insider.
While the virus is deadly, it's not very contagious. Unlike the common cold or the flu, which spread through airborne droplets, Ebola can only spread through contact with bodily fluids, like blood, vomit, and diarrhea.
Adalja also points out that Ebola is less contagious than Middle East Respiratory Syndrome, or MERS, which recently arrived in the US but was contained. There were no reports of secondary cases, which are new cases spread by the individuals who had arrived to the country already infected.
"Ebola is a very rare disease that infects a very small number of people," says Adalja. "It doesn't have that same type of burden of illness of other diseases like malaria, tuberculosis, HIV."
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/ebola-virus-in-us-dallas-dont-panic-2014-9#ixzz3EqTwKrwU
"Today, the CDC confirmed the first case of Ebola diagnosed in the U.S.: a patient who was traveling in Liberia and is now at a hospital in Dallas. Should you panic about Ebola now? Nope, and here's why.
The bottom line is that Ebola spreads only through the direct contact with bodily fluids—making it a whole lot harder to spread than the airborne common flu. We also know exactly how to stop Ebola; the crisis in Africa has gotten so bad due to lack of healthcare infrastructure. "I have no doubt we will control this case of Ebola so it does not spread widely," CDC director Tom Frieden said in a press conference this afternoon.
The CDC also gave some details about the patient, who was presumably exposed to the virus in Liberia. He didn't have any symptoms when he arrived in the U.S. on September 20. He got sick four days later and was admitted to the Texas hospital on Sunday, where he was placed in isolation. Today, a CDC lab confirmed he was positive for Ebola.
The patient will stay at the Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas rather than be moved to one of then nation's four high-level containment units. This decision actually makes a lot of sense—any modern hospital is perfectly well equipped to deal with diseases that transmit only through bodily fluids. Moving a patient, on the other hand, creates a whole other set of risks. "
Texasgal
(17,240 posts)This is what pisses me off the most about the flippant attitude towards the Flu. It is easily transmitted and kills thousands of people a year!
My nephew almost died due to the flu two years ago. He has MS and a compramised immune system. He was in ICU for three weeks trying to breathe we almost lost him! People are freaking out about ONE dude that has Ebola in isolation? Really?
LisaL
(47,423 posts)He was infectious during that time, and not isolated.
Texasgal
(17,240 posts)issues on the back burner? Something that is a gazillion times more transmittable and a known killer?
MrTriumph
(1,720 posts)where the patient is now being cared for.
In Texas, 50 miles is like next door. DFW is highly mobile.
FWIW, I think it is outrageous the flight information about this infected person is being kept secret, as is the name of the infected person).
Flame me all you like, but I agree with many people who are going to say that this once again shows how ineffective our government can be at keeping us safe.
YarnAddict
(1,850 posts)The patient didn't develop symptoms until about four days after he'd arrived, and as long as he is asymptomatic, he isn't contagious.
Response to MrTriumph (Reply #60)
Name removed Message auto-removed
LisaL
(47,423 posts)They don't even know if they came in contact with him.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Also I unahibe it's much easier to do this kind of work without a public panic.
Response to LisaL (Reply #65)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Response to LisaL (Reply #65)
Name removed Message auto-removed
jeff47
(26,549 posts)They would not be contagious until they were symptomatic.
Do you think they'd go to the gym with the worst headache they've ever had, vomiting and diarrhea?
LisaL
(47,423 posts)Plenty of time to potentially infect a bunch of people.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)I just dive right in!!!
Yes, it's possible that he infected others. But pretty unlikely. In addition, those others are not infectious until they are symptomatic. So again, they'd have to "go to the gym" while experiencing a high fever, a very bad headache, vomiting and diarrhea.
LisaL
(47,423 posts)He was in contact with his family members, ambulance crew, doctors, medical staff, during this time.
I think it's very likely.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)A person isn't contagious until they are puking and bleeding.
LisaL
(47,423 posts)That's nonsense, by the way.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/what-we-know-about-texas-ebola-patient-n215451
Do you have a reliable source that says otherwise?
LisaL
(47,423 posts)Patients become infectious after they start showing symptoms.
They might be not in their most infectious yet.
It doesn't mean they are not infectious.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)Sweat, saliva, tears.
LisaL
(47,423 posts)They don't have to vomit or bleed to transmit the virus.
They are sweating, aren't they?
jeff47
(26,549 posts)He was asymptomatic when he was flying. So he could not have transmitted it while flying. By announcing the flight, you've now got hundreds showing up at the hospital demanding treatment "just in case". Or panicking over a disease they couldn't catch.
And let's pretend they also announced the name of the infected person. You think the people panicking over this are going to do nothing? No, they're going to "ensure that family can't spread it".
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)Get hold of some plywood and plastic and cover all your windows. Use some 2x4s to seal your doors. Figure out how much food you have in the house, and how much you will have to ration it while you stay in isolation. Fill all the containers you have with drinking water now in case the water system goes down.
Or -
maybe tank up the car with gasoline and drive like mad for the border with Oklahoma before "they" close it
Or -
maybe take a chill pill?
uppityperson
(116,020 posts)
Adsos Letter
(19,459 posts)
sendero
(28,552 posts)... of the transmission modes of this virus really annoy me. WE DON'T. NOBODY HAS DONE DEFINITIVE SCIENTIFIC TEST OF THIS, I'LL BET YOU MONEY.
It's the typical "common sense" science that always turns out not to be neither science or actual common sense. Many people have gotten this virus despite following the "rules" that should prevent contagion.
I'm not going as far as "airborne" but those saying "bodily fluids" are pretty nonchalant and apparently don't realize that any skin contact at all will probably suffice.
YarnAddict
(1,850 posts)that the scientific community is going to be learning a LOT more very quickly about Ebola, now that it's here.
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)How much exposure to start an infection? Maybe only a single virus particle. Thankfully it doesn't last long outside of a host and only has limited aerosol transmissibility.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)You need enough of the virus so that you infect enough cells to be missed by the immune system.
One virus would infect one cell. It's extremely unlikely that the immune system would miss that one cell.
Flu takes a few hundred viruses to cause an infection in a person with a normal immune system. Ebola's going to need something in the same neighborhood as a realistic floor.
Yes it's possible one particle will do it. It's also possible that two hydrogen atoms in my left pinky will spontaneously fuse, annihilating my neighborhood.
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)Flu virus takes quite a bit to infect you but it is highly transmissibile. Norovirus can infect you with about twenty particles. Ebola is more in the neighborhood of Norovirus in that it takes very, very few virus particles for an infection to set in.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)(Assuming normal immune system and no other complications)
Of course, a few hundred virus particles will fit into a very small drop.
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)It takes very, very few and the Ebola virus totally evades your immune system during the initial infection which is why it is so damn dangerous.
http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/lab-bio/res/psds-ftss/ebola-eng.php
"INFECTIOUS DOSE: Viral hemorrhagic fevers have an infectious dose of 1 - 10 organisms by aerosol in non-human primates"
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Generally speaking the levels of infectivity in primates can be extended to humans, which is one reason why primates are extremely useful in researching contagious diseases.
It is ok to admit you were mistaken, dude.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)ILL with ebola are potentially infectious. So it's a crap shoot.
Ebola spreads via blood, urine, and feces. BUT ALSO semen, saliva, tears, and even sweat.
I have been unable to find any information about how long ebola virus can survive in proteinaceous debris. Probably not once it's completely dry, but again it's a crap shoot.
It is very important to remember that the CDC clearly states on its website that ebola spreads, not only via direct contact with infected people, but also via FOMITES.
Humans are notoriously incapable of avoiding diseases spread via fomites, IMHO. We are pigs.
840high
(17,196 posts)ow long does Ebola live outside the body? No definite information is available because it has not been researched; the best hypothesis is 3 to 10 days. Fomites, if Ebola can live on a door handle for 3 to 10 days. How many people visit a public restroom in a day (entrance door handle and then touch your face)?
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_times_does_a_person_touch_their_face_daily
The incubation period of Ebola is 2 to 21 days. The method of transmission is direct contact with secretions. If a person survives the Ebola virus the person may be able to transmit the virus through sexual contact for up to 2 months.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebola
- See more at: http://www.thomhartmann.com/users/pkrause12249/blog/2014/07/urban-setting-ebola-perpetual-ebola-will-never-burnout-professionals#sthash.uluJmjLK.dpuf
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)So a cautious person would be very cautious. Fomites are a huge wild card here.
And that's the veterinary microbiologist and epidemiologist in me talking.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)Approximately 10% of the local African population has circulating antibodies. It's possible that they developed an immune response to low levels of exposure via contaminated fruit.
But I don't think they really have a handle on it. Until now, it has been so rare and outbreaks so shortlived, there hasn't been a lot of opportunity to study it in real-world conditions.
It worries me that doctors and nurses in biohazard suits while working are contracting it. I doubt they are doing a lot of socializing while there, so I imagine have only limited contact opportunities outside their work environment...
Warpy
(114,615 posts)but here you go: http://www.cfsph.iastate.edu/Factsheets/pdfs/viral_hemorrhagic_fever_filovirus.pdf
It's not an upper respiratory disease and it's not transmitted by aerosolized droplets.
It's caused by direct contact with infected blood or body fluids with broken skin or mucus membranes. There has been one documented case of male to female sexual transmission and several cases of mother to infant transmission via breast milk.
It's easier to transmit than HIV but not as easy to transmit as Hepatitis B.
It's killed by ultraviolet light as well as household disinfectants like bleach or vinegar.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Knowledge is power (against irrationality).
Warpy
(114,615 posts)and that's why the old plagues used to break civilizations down completely and spread the plagues quickly as terrified, irrational people thought they could out run them.
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)plagues to reappear.
Burying several children in the same grave would have given cause for a panic in those days. I guess.
WovenGems
(776 posts)Ebola is either a large virus or it has no coding for the lunge tissue on its protein shell. I vote for the latter. To fix this problem inject Ebola and Influenza into a pig and just wait.
Warpy
(114,615 posts)The one airline worker who contracted it helped a desperately ill patient off the plane by draping his arm over her shoulder and assisting him to an area where a wheelchair could be procured or an ambulance called. That airline worker quite likely touched contaminated hands to face without realizing the hands had been contaminated.
Other people on the plane tested negative, although I'm not sure about his seat mates. They, too, could have touched their faces with contaminated hands.
Now would be a very good time to learn to stop touching your face in public unless you have just washed your hands. That would cut down on colds and flu, too.
This is not an upper respiratory infection. While transmission is theoretically possible through tears, sweat and saliva, none has been documented. The virus is killed by ultraviolet light, meaning fluorescents and sunlight. It's also killed by household sanitizers, including vinegar. If a worker did pick up a bloody napkin in a restaurant, let's hope s/he stops by the hand sanitizer afterward because blood and body fluids transmit it and the sanitizer will kill it. Two cases of transmission from male to female through sex by patients who recovered from it weeks earlier have been documented, so the virus is shed by the body for at least a month after survival in both semen and breast milk.
The virus is a fragile one, which is why it's being transmitted to humans directly through bites by bats and by the butchery of bush meat and by human to human through intimate contact by caregivers and families preparing a body for burial.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Was he even a little bit sick when he started out on his journey?
YarnAddict
(1,850 posts)As I understand it, his temp would have been taken before he boarded in Liberia, and if it had been high he would not have been able to board. After that, who knows? I don't know if European airports do any screening of transferring, or any other passengers, and I'm pretty sure US airports wouldn't.
He probably should at least have been asked before boarding if he had been in contact with any Ebola patients.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)about 4000 cases of Ebola in Liberia. That's 0.1% infection rate in a country with no clean water, no hospital facilities, 150 medical doctors, bad roads, etc, etc.