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Purveyor

(29,876 posts)
Wed Oct 1, 2014, 03:37 PM Oct 2014

PACE 'Should Not Stay Idle' to Mass Graves Near Donetsk: Russian Lawmaker

STRASBOURG, September 30 (RIA Novosti), Daria Chernyshova - Russian lawmaker Olga Kazakova drew the attention of European parliamentarians to the mass graves found near Ukraine's eastern city of Donetsk, as she spoke during the autumn session of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) on Tuesday.

"PACE should not stay idle with regards to the situation, to the places of mass graves near Donetsk," Kazakova said during the debate on countering manifestations of neo-Nazism.

She urged to take seriously the issue of neo-Nazism and called for "an objective if necessary international investigation into the crimes having the neo-Nazist character."

more...

http://en.ria.ru/world/20140930/193459609/PACE-Should-Not-Stay-Idle-to-Mass-Graves-Near-Donetsk-Russian.html

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HRW Calls for Prompt, Impartial Investigation Into Donetsk Mass Graves

WASHINGTON, October 1 (RIA Novosti) - Human Rights Watch calls for a prompt and impartial investigation into mass graves discovered outside Donetsk in Eastern Ukraine, Rachel Denber, Deputy Director for the Europe and central Asia division of the organization told RIA Novosti on Wednesday.

"There needs to be a prompt, thorough, impartial investigation, one that involves participation of completely impartial, independent forensic experts," Denber said.

Earlier on Wednesday, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said that more than 400 bodies were discovered in mass graves near the city of Donetsk in eastern Ukraine.

more...

http://en.ria.ru/world/20141001/193529491/HRW-Calls-for-Prompt-Impartial-Investigation-Into-Donetsk-Mass.html

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PACE 'Should Not Stay Idle' to Mass Graves Near Donetsk: Russian Lawmaker (Original Post) Purveyor Oct 2014 OP
Katyn Comes To Mind, Sir The Magistrate Oct 2014 #1
Katyn' briefly appeared in Russian history books. Igel Oct 2014 #2
I Know, Sir The Magistrate Oct 2014 #3

The Magistrate

(95,237 posts)
1. Katyn Comes To Mind, Sir
Wed Oct 1, 2014, 03:48 PM
Oct 2014

This area was for many months previous in the hands of secessionists known to have abducted and tortured and murdered locals who did not align with their rebellion.

A good deal will depend on the dating of the corpses, which can readily be determined by competent and impartial investigators.

I would be inclined to trust a team assembled under U.N. auspices. I would not believe a word coming from a team dispatched from Moscow.

Igel

(35,197 posts)
2. Katyn' briefly appeared in Russian history books.
Wed Oct 1, 2014, 07:19 PM
Oct 2014

Then the Polish movie, like mention in Russian history books, vanished as a slur against the great Russian people.

Or the Great Russian people.

Given capitalization rules in Russian, it's pretty much impossible to figure out if it's a ethnonym that's bandied 'bout or the superfluous glorification of an ethnicity that's common to fascist and ultranationalist regimes.

The Magistrate

(95,237 posts)
3. I Know, Sir
Wed Oct 1, 2014, 08:37 PM
Oct 2014

I have an open mind on these reports. I cannot say who killed these people, nor in what circumstances they were killed.

But it is certainly true that the Russians have a record of blaming their atrocities on others, with the massacre at Katyn being a prime example, and one the Western Allies went along with in public, even though they knew perfectly well the Soviets had done the killing, not the Nazis. It would hardly be unthinkable an attempt would be made to 'launder' killings done by the secessionists in this manner. It is known for certain there were both killings and 'disappearings' carried out by the secessionists as they established and held their control of these areas. It is worth bearing in mind among the possibilities, until a genuine investigation into the matter is made.

I think a fair portion of the fighters on both sides would probably best be euthanized as a public health measure, but I have seen nothing to indicate the balance swings decisively one way or the other. Not, by the way, that that ought to make much difference in anyone's view of the events in Ukraine in their totality. It is quite possible that the side in the right may be upheld in part by people who are bad indeed; the good cause a bad man fights in does not sanctify him, any more than the presence of a bad man on the line in a good cause puts it in the wrong. Competing claims of atrocity, even when accurate ( and in many cases they are not ), are a poor method of deciding what outcome is best in a conflict. What is wrong in the present situation in the Ukraine is that one country claims to control by right the political and economic life of another, and even a right to seize a portion of its territory, and has used military force to press that claim, first by use of covert operatives and supply of arms and then by use of regular troops in some strength. Russia has no right to dominance in Ukraine, and its insistence at gun-point that it does endangers the settled peace of Europe. That settled peace is something people have come to regard as normal, even natural, but that is far from the case....

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