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[Cali_Democrat]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Cali_Democrat) on Thu Oct 2, 2014, 03:34 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[Gman]

1. The same reason Clinton made the keynote sddress

At the DNC in 12. I think even Obama would say, "Let Bill do it. He's much better than I am doing this."

[LawDeeDah]

12. Because Obama is a gracious man he would say that

and because Bill is a self centered man, he would accept that he is solely responsible for everything good that comes out of the Obama Whitehouse.

[AtomicKitten]

15. good characterization of both men. nt

[Gman]

23. Would you rather Grimes lose with Obama stumping for her

than win with Bill stumping for her? Her reelection is much too important to involve emotions.

[LawDeeDah]

24. No, let them/her do what they think to win.

I am sure Obama understands these things. He's no thin skinned idiot. It's just too bad the RW and the Baggers and all the other bags of idiots get to call the shots on what can said, etc., Saddening.

[Gman]

26. Both Obama and Bill could explain the same thing

And when Obama finishes, people would say, "Umm...OK". When Bill finishes light bulbs would go on and people say, "Really?"

And it's not Bill talking about issues he wants to talk about. He talks about whst comes out of polling and focus groups.

[Cali_Democrat]

29. So what has Bill said about Obamacare in Kentucky?

I must have missed it.

Surely he has explained to the people there that Obamacare has helped them tremendously...

[Gman]

49. Dunno

I wasn't there.

[Cali_Democrat]

50. He's the great communicator like you mentioned

Surely he's whitesplained the fact that Obamacare has dramatically reduced the number of uninsured in Kentucky...

I mean, after all, it's one of the biggest pieces of legislation in recent history.

Surely Bill, the great communicator, has explained for all to understand.

[AverageJoe90]

69. Good point, IMO. nt

[CherokeeDem]

39. There are several reasons Clinton is visually supporting her...

Clinton is popular in Kentucky... won this state in 1992 and 1996... and he is very close friends with the Lundergan family... particularly Jerry Lundergan, Alison's father. He came here to help his friend's daughter.

Obama is not popular with the red voters.... the success of the KYConnect program here is more attributed to the program the Democratic governor, Steve Beshear put in place. For Grimes to have a chance of beating McConnell, she is going to have to run away from Obama. Right now the Kochs and the NRA are spending heavily on ads against her.

Not what I'd like but what has to happen for us to Ditch Mitch.

[LawDeeDah]

47. Whatever way to get rid of the Turtle, is fine with me.

But if the mid terms this time around come in the democrats favor, I expect Bill will be taking credit for it all.

[CherokeeDem]

51. And if it does....

I'll be very happy to give him credit. Let's hope that happens!!!

[elleng]

53. Thanks. Good explanation.

[Cali_Democrat]

20. So Obama should have given the keynote address AND his acceptance address at the same convention?

[Gman]

22. Huh??? So he could campaign for Grimes I guess????

That makes no sense. I think Obama would agree Bill is a much better speaker and motivator. Nobody can explain the details in as simple language as he can.

[PragmaticLiberal]

28. Nah. That's not it.

How about the President being extremely unpopular in Kentucky?

[Gman]

48. Bingo! I guarantee you

If he was popular he would be there.

[PragmaticLiberal]

59. Exactly.

[MohRokTah]

2. Because Kentucky does not associate Obama with Kynect.

Kentuckians overwhelmingly want Obamacare repealed without realizing that they'd lose health care coverage.

This shows you haw devious the Fox agenda is.

[msongs]

9. show how inept her campaign is for not connecting kynect with Obamacare -

racists are not voting for her anyway so might as well rally the people who are benefiting

[Staph]

65. Connecting KYnect with Obamacare is not going to get Grimes elected.

We here at DU want Mitch McConnell gone. If it means that Allison Grimes has to diss the President, so be it. Would you rather that Grimes be a simon-pure Democrat, spouting the sort of things that would get her easily elected in the northeast, and then watch her lose the election in a landslide?

The Republicans in general, and Mitch specifically, have spent the last six years demonizing President Obama. You can't elect a Democrat in a red state this year by saying what a great job Obama has done. It's six years too late for that message.

Grimes is going to do what it takes to get elected. All of our Democratic candidates need to do what it takes to get elected in their districts. Then she, and they, will be a good Democrats, supporting a mostly liberal agenda. I don't understand why that concept is so difficult for DUers to understand.

[Iggo]

3. Because Kentucky?

[cali]

4. that's easy. The President is unpopular in KY.

and trying to explain Obamacare and how it's benefited the people in KY is a too steep a hill.

[Iggo]

5. Exactly.

The short answer is: She wants to win.

[Cali_Democrat]

14. Shoudn't Obamacare help her win?

It has helped so many people in Kentucky.

Alison Grimes should tell the people to vote for her so the Senate can help Obama get even more useful legislation like Obamacare through...

Minimum wage...unemployment extension...etc...etc...etc....

[Iggo]

37. How?

They hate Obama. They hate Obamacare.

She's gonna re-educate a whole fucking state in a month-and-a-half?

What makes YOU think she can win, right now, with Obama and Obamacare?

Or do you want her to just make a point, win or lose?

[jmowreader]

54. Kynect will help her win

Kentuckians like Kynect a lot. If Alison comes out the Monday before the election and says "Mitch McConnell will repeal Kynect," she's got it.

[JI7]

8. one doesn't need to explain it, they already support it , one of the early states to get behind it

but the president is still black so ................

[Cali_Democrat]

17. Obama helped loads of Kentuckians get coverage they otherwise would not have had

Bernie Sanders has even mentioned how Obamacare is helping to pave the way for single payer in states like Vermont.

The Republicans? They got nothing.

And what thanks does Obama get? Fellow Dems run away from him as fast as possible.

This is bullshit.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

56. Does it matter?

You go to the polls with the voters you have, not the voters you wish you had. In the case of Kentucky, the voters don't like Obama, no matter what he's done for them. So cutting an ad with him would only hurt Grimes' electability.

Don't sacrifice the chance at a win simply to make people who aren't actually voting in the race happy.

[cali]

57. I know that, but Obamacare is still unpopular in KY and so is Obama

I hate to break this to you but KY is not Vermont.

You're grasping at.... bullshit.


this is from March:


In Kentucky, a new Marist poll conducted for NBC News finds that 57 percent of registered voters have an unfavorable view of “Obamacare,” the shorthand commonly used to label the 2010 Affordable Care Act. That’s compared with only 33 percent who give it a thumbs up – hardly surprising in a state where the president’s approval rating hovers just above 30 percent.

By comparison, when Kentucky voters were asked to give their impression of "kynect," the state exchange created as a result of the health care law, the picture was quite different.

A plurality – 29 percent – said they have a favorable impression of kynect, compared to 22 percent who said they view the system unfavorably. Twenty-seven percent said they hadn't heard of kynect, and an additional 21 percent said they were unsure.

<snip>

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/polling-obamacare-label-makes-big-difference-n102861

This is politics 101 which you don't seem to grasp.

[Cali_Democrat]

58. Kynect is Obamacare

How hard can this be to explain to people?

That legislation has helped so many Kentuckians get coverage they wouldn't have had.

It's saving lives.

Running away from it doesn't make sense IMO.

If she loses, I will blame her strategy of running away from something that has been so beneficial to those people.

[cali]

62. obviously it's hard. You really don't think dems have tried to explain it?

why don't you trot over to KY and calidemsplainit if you think it's so easy.

she's running against the most powerful repub senator in a deep red state and doing a fine job of it. you seem to be quite the armchair campaign manager.

[Cali_Democrat]

64. No I don't think they have tried to explain it

They're actually running away from it.

If she loses, she will be to blame for running a conservative campaign.

[cali]

68. bullshit. that we be why she loses if she loses. This isn't rocket science

what part of she's running against the most powerful republican senator in a deep red state in a year tilted toward republicans, are you having such a hard time grasping?

[Cali_Democrat]

73. McConnell is weak

OK...well you're getting your wish and she's running away from Obama and Obamcare even though it has helped nearly 400,000 Kentuckians.

She loses, you will have been wrong.

Just like you were wrong when you said Obama wouldn't win VA or Florida in 2012.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1581859

Me? I was right:

Obama will win OH, NH, VA, FL, IA, CO and NV.

She definitely shouldn't take your advice IMO.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

75. How do you reconcile 'McConnell is weak' and 'She loses'?

She's doing what hurts her less with the voters, and it still might not be enough to overcome his massive warchest and blatant dogwhistles.

[JI7]

6. black

[Recursion]

7. Because she wants to win the election, I imagine?

[Cali_Democrat]

10. Obama has helped thousands of Kentuckians

get covered.

How can it hurt her?

[Recursion]

11. Because people tell reporters "it sure beats Obamacare"

I've heard that in at least a dozen stories on Kynect: whoever is getting interviewed talks about how much better this is than Obamacare.

You run with the electorate you have, not the electorate you want. Obama is extremely unpopular in Kentucky, and Grimes isn't in a position to change that.

[riqster]

40. This:

"You run with the electorate you have, not the electorate you want. Obama is extremely unpopular in Kentucky, and Grimes isn't in a position to change that."

True. Sad, but true.

[Travis_0004]

13. She has ran a campaign distancing herself from Obama

She talks about being pro gun and pro coal, and brags about being different than Obama.

Meanwhile Mitch is trying to paint Allison as being the same as Obama.

If she was to attend a rally with Obama you would be more likely to see it in one of Mconnels commercials.

[kentuck]

19. Even with the success of Obamacare in Kentucky....

It is still a negative for her to associate herself with Obama in the state of Kentucky. It is mostly the over-whelming influence of coal mine operators and the environmental issues leading to large losses of jobs. At least, that is what they believe.

[Tarheel_Dem]

16. The same reason Al Gore didn't involve Bill Clinton in his campaign = Distance.

I understand Alison's motives here. She wants to win, and if distancing herself from Obama helps her do that, it could mean that Harry Reid gets to keep the gavel. I'm okay with that.

What's been surprising to me is the number of purist DU'ers with Warren sig lines, who think Obama is to the right of Dick Cheney & Genghis Khan, also support Grimes. Go figure. If Grimes is to the right of Obama, she's WWWWAAAAAYYYYY to the right of Elizabeth Warren, and that being the case, there will often be legislation where the two will part ways. Being a "liberal" is not a plus in KY.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

61. There's 1 president, 100 senators.

Also, do I like Grimes' positions on many things? No. But McConnell is one of the guys who, from the first day of Obama's election, dedicated himself to blocking anything and everything good for normal Americans. There would be nothing sweeter than seeing him booted out. Whether you believe the President could have done more but didn't, or couldn't do more because of Republican obstruction, McConnell is right there in the center of making absolutely sure nothing good could get done.

If Grimes is to the right of Obama, McConnell is still sitting at Satan's right hand.

[Tarheel_Dem]

63. Agreed. I'd rather have a blue dog Dem, over a Republican anyday. If we keep the majority, we....

determine what comes to floor for a vote, and Harry Reid keeps useless investigations (eg., BenIRSghazi) to a minimum. There's still much work to be done, and clogging up the system with a whole lot of unnecessary investigations and stalled confirmations won't help the country one bit.

[WI_DEM]

18. Because Bill is popular in KY and Obama isn't.

[Cali_Democrat]

21. Why? What did Bill do so differently than Obama?

Did Bill help almost 400,000 Kentuckians get coverage?

[JoePhilly]

35. Bill decided to be white. Obama didn't.

But that is basically it.

They could have a flat tire in the middle of nowhere and be stuck late at night ... and a black guy could drive up and fix their tire for them for free ... and they'd immediately jump in their car and speed away as fast as possible.

[LeftyMom]

25. Because it's fucking Kentucky.

It's heartbreakingly beautiful and I have extended family there and I love the place, but trust me on this: there's a deep vein of racism she'd do well to avoid, and it tends to run deepest in precisely the working class people whose votes she needs.

Yes, this is terrible but it's true.

[Cali_Democrat]

27. Then Dems need to call out this racism. Ignoring this isn't fair to blacks in America

We're all supposed to be equal.

[PragmaticLiberal]

30. Call it out and lose?

Because that's exactly what would happen.

I understand where you're coming from but we're talking about Kentucky.

[Cali_Democrat]

32. So Dems running for higher office should just sit back and not call out racism for fear of losing?

That's awful and it's unfair to blacks in this country.

Whatever happened to doing the right thing and calling out injustice and bigotry against other human beings?

[PragmaticLiberal]

33. What exactly do you want Grimes to say?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

66. Fear of? You mean 'guarantee of' in this case.

Grimes starts talking racism, she loses, because even the people who are inclined to like her will get irritated about their friends and neighbours being called out on their racism.

Which one actually holding the office will result in working against racism? Here's a hint - not McDonnell. She'll do more good work against racism while in office than she will if she simply calls it out and loses the election.

[Cali_Democrat]

71. Whatever happened to doing the right thing and calling out bigotry against your fellow humans?

Why not speak out?

What about equality for all and making sure people aren't discriminated against because of how they were born?

Shouldn't that be more important than winning?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

74. Winning the election gives you a hell of a lot better soapbox to

call out bigotry against your fellow humans. It would give her the chance to do so with media coverage for six years, as opposed to doing it briefly during a campaign, and have it simply written off as a political maneuver.

[LeftyMom]

31. At least she's not using racist dogwhistles herself, which makes her better than a lot of Dems.

Bill Clinton being an obvious example (anti-welfare and tough on crime rhetoric used a lot of coded language.) She's not going to solve racism in a month. She's trying to win an election.

You campaign with somebody who is popular, not somebody who isn't.

[Cali_Democrat]

36. Sometimes I really hate this country

All that tripe about how we're all equal.

Liberty and justice for all blah blah blah...

Unless you're black of course...then you need to sit down and shut up or get 10 bullets fired at you while you have your hands up.

[Thinkingabout]

34. This is terrible, I see there isn't any productive in asking the question of whether Bill Clinton

or Obama appears in ads for ALG. Bill Clinton was a friend to ALG's father, in fact at the beginning of the year BC call ALG to encourage her to run for Senator against McConnell. Why can't we accept the fact Clinton cares about Alison and would like to see her win this election. The Big Dog stirs crowds, he is willing to do the ads. We should not try to even put this question between these two people, it should not be a tug of war but about electing Alison to the Senate.

[bullwinkle428]

38. Rude Pundit made the point a week or two ago - ACA is fantastic concept,

and for some people, they just really really wished a white guy had come up with it.

http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2014/09/toothless-hicks-agree-we-love-obamacare.html

[aikoaiko]

42. I thought a white guy, Mitt Romney, did come up with it.

[Recursion]

45. DiMaisi (then-head of the MA legislature) came up with it

It was written and passed by an overwhelmingly Democratic state legislature and was made to just barely not get vetoed by Romney.

[aikoaiko]

55. Yes, I was riffing off of the ACA debate prior to the vote.

It was a joke of sorts.

[aikoaiko]

41. Its not her job to do PR for the president while she is being strategic.

I don't know if plugging the president would hurt her or help her, but she's running a competitive campaign and I wouldn't second guess her.

[Cali_Democrat]

43. It's not plugging for Obama

It's explaining how this legislation has helped thousands of people get coverage and how electing her can help get more useful legislation through such as minimum wage and unemployment extensions.

[aikoaiko]

44. Its been said by other, but at this point changing hearts and minds is difficult.

If her people don't think it will pickup votes, then they are not goin to do it.

[ieoeja]

46. My single biggest disappointment with Obama during the 2008 primary.

He pretty much stopped campaigning in rural regions and certain states after he secured the nomination.

He beat Clinton in rural Iowa. He beat Clinton in rural New Hampshire, but lost in the cities. He beat Clinton in every Nevada county except for Clark County where Las Vegas resides (where Clinton tried getting the rules changed so Las Vegas employees could not vote!).

Obama connects much better with the rural community than do the Clintons. In fact, it was Bill who switched the Democratic Party from a coalition of the poor and the working class in cities and the countryside to the urban/suburban coalition because that's where the money is.

Kentucky isn't that much different from Indiana, and Obama carried Indiana over McCain in 2008. I believe Kentucky, Tennessee and West Virginia could have been in play had he campaigned there.

[theHandpuppet]

52. Spot on.

I'd bet the President has made more trips to Iraq and Afghanistan than to Kentucky or any other part of Appalachia. If people think folks there haven't noticed, guess again.

[bigendian]

60. If you are working a Democratic campaign in a red state.......

you don't even need to ask that question.

[theHandpuppet]

67. Let me ask this question

In which states is Obama appearing in ads for Democratic candidates?

[tularetom]

70. It's not rocket science

She's running in a state with a fairly high percentage of dumdums and rednecks. They don't give a rats ass that Obama is responsible for their health care, they don't like him because he's black.

Even though I hope this lady beats McChinless, I don't hold out any great hopes for her being a reliable Democratic vote on social or economic issues. She's always going to be holding her finger in the wind to avoid pissing off the religious wackos and racists among her constituents so she'll be just another Landrieu or Joe Manchin.

And I have to say it definitely isn't a plus for me to see Clinton campaigning for her.

[PeteSelman]

72. Because he is HATED there.

It's political suicide to hang with the President in Kentucky.

C'mon, you must know this.

[Cali_Democrat]

76. Deleting

This thread has run its course.