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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDays later, officials preparing to clean inside the apartment where Ebola relatives are confined.
Last edited Thu Oct 2, 2014, 05:52 PM - Edit history (3)
The relatives have been put under strict quarantine, with a guard at the door, since there were multiple violations of a request for them to stay inside.
Why wasn't this apartment secured and cleaned immediately upon Duncan's diagnosis?
When were Duncan's belongings bagged up? How long did family members have to live surrounded by his contaminated things?
EDIT TO ADD: Duncan's relatives had to do the bagging themselves, obviously without any safety gear. Unbelievable.
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/nation_world/20141002_ap_d611ba9369d7407587aaee873fc25778.html
WASHINGTON (AP) - Texas health officials have ordered four close family members of the Ebola patient in Dallas to stay in their home, and they've posted law enforcement outside to be sure.
SNIP
Texas officials are delivering groceries to the home and are preparing to have it professionally cleaned.
Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins said the Ebola patient's belongings and clothes and household trash, possibly including his sheets, are bagged inside the house so the family members cannot come into contact with them until they are removed.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ebola-patients-family-ordered-stay-inside-leave/story?id=25912405
The family of the Texas Ebola patient Thomas Eric Duncan have been ordered to stay in their home after violating official's initial request not to leave.
"There were violations of the request to not leave their premises," Dallas judge Clay Jenkins said of the breach that prompted the Texas Department of State Health Services to order the quarantine.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/03/us/dallas-ebola-case-thomas-duncan-contacts.html?_r=0
But even as the orders were being issued, there were concerns about the conditions in the home where they were being ordered to stay.
The woman who was hosting Mr. Duncan told CNN that she had been with him the first time he sought treatment at the hospital and that she had twice told workers there he had been in Liberia. Still they sent him back with only some antibiotics to the apartment, where the woman was staying with one of her children and two nephews.
Over the next two days, Mr. Duncan began sweating profusely and had diarrhea. His sweaty sheets were still on the bed on Thursday morning, the woman said. She put the towels he used in a bag but said she did not know what to do with them.
The woman, whom CNN did not identify by name, said she had no symptoms of the disease.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)profusely were still on the bed!
That is just unfathomable. I can understand them needing to be closely monitored, but to keep them trapped where Duncan was obviously very sick is unconscionable. I don't see how the family will come out without at least a couple of them infected.
Louisiana1976
(3,962 posts)FSogol
(45,488 posts)As long as no one comes in contact with the waste perhaps it is not a major problem.
Remember, it is not airborne. Maybe leaving the sheets was the safest move.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)The example was if there was blood on a table. He said as long as the blood is wet the virus would be alive. But once it dried the virus would die.
FSogol
(45,488 posts)Surfaces like the hand rest on a plane or stair railing wouldn't be contagious long, but sheets might be. Best not to disturb them until they can be taken care of professionally.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)than letting the sheets dry, and disposing of dead virus.
Sid
FSogol
(45,488 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)to that until it becomes safe does not seem logical.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)They need to stay put so as to minimize tracking their filthy, virus-laden shoes everywhere.
I have no sympathy for people who promise to stay isolated and then immediately break that promise. Repeatedly. I think they should be deported at the end of 21 days.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)I'll save my compassion for THEIR victims.
In public health emergencies, you can't be coddling idiots. They'll kill a lot of people before they're done. I think Typhoid Mary got treated just the way she should have.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)them you mean? Odd how you show compassion for these victims by insulting them.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)The haz-mat team should have been called in the first day to clean up the environment. Instead, they didn't even clean the ambulance for two days.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)towels they are at ever-decreasing risk from the environment.
Though I do think Texas should have whisked them off to an isolation lockdown at the hospital or jail once they tried to split.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)And how can the residents have been left to do the clean up themselves?
The hospital has devoted a whole ward to isolating Duncan. They could have put the family in another section of the ward (since the CDC says it's enough to put these patients in private rooms.)
Putting them in jail could lead to a public health disaster. Think about it. What if a family member suddenly became sick while in jail?
morningfog
(18,115 posts)What else did Duncan leave in the house? What other soiled sheets? Vomit and feces? A house quarantine in a house of someone who was violently I'll is inhumane.
Their shoes are the least if our concern.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)public health recommendations regarding a deadly disease (along with 21 other people's lives). I have NO patience for people who lie, interfere, disobey, and otherwise show a complete lack of concern for other people's lives.
They are recklessly endangering others.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)the house when not symptomatic. Their lives however were in danger being forced to stay in a house with soiled sheets.
Unless they left the house throwing the soiled sheets and buckets of vomit at people, no ones life was put in danger.
Do you even know that they aren't citizens?
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)public. What makes you think that you are better qualified to make these calls than public health?
I don't know that they aren't citizens. IF THEY ARE NOT, they should be deported for showing callous disregard for other people's safety ad lives. If they are, well, citizenship can be revoked, so they need to stop with the criminal negligence thing.
I'm not being unreasonable. All I expect is that people treat others with the same respect and consideration they want shown to them. It starts, in this case, with NOT promising to stay isolated and then repeatedly breaking that promise.
Sparhawk60
(359 posts)They acted very self centered and what should be a very isolated case now has the potential to get bigger.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)Instead, they let one of the women do the bagging herself, and are now making the family sit in the apartment -- with the bags still not disposed of, and the apartment still not properly cleaned.
They know how to do this kind of clean-up. They did it in the airplanes used to transport the other victims. They just haven't bothered in this case.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)EBOLA SURVIVAL OUTSIDE HOST:
Filoviruses have been reported capable to survive for weeks in blood and can also survive on contaminated surfaces, particularly at low temperatures (4°C). One study could not recover any Ebolavirus from experimentally contaminated surfaces (plastic, metal or glass) at room temperature. In another study, Ebolavirus dried onto glass, polymeric silicone rubber, or painted aluminum alloy is able to survive in the dark for several hours under ambient conditions (between 20 and 25C and 3040% relative humidity) (amount of virus reduced to 37% after 15.4 hours), but is less stable than some other viral hemorrhagic fevers (Lassa). When dried in tissue culture media onto glass and stored at 4 °C, Zaire ebolavirus survived for over 50 days. This information is based on experimental findings only and not based on observations in nature. This information is intended to be used to support local risk assessments in a laboratory setting.
http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/lab-bio/res/psds-ftss/ebola-eng.php
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)there are some perfect conditions that allow to live longer, but those conditions would not be the apartment.
Duer 157099
(17,742 posts)So, if he handled anything that was subsequently returned to the fridge...
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)would probably remain viral, or if he missed while using the toilet and got some on the toilet seat it would probably be infectious?
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)But yeah, filthy filthy filthy.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)is composed of good housekeepers, but judging by the fact that the bed sheets stayed on ... I'm not overly optimistic.
I wouldn't be waiting for somebody to disinfect the place, I'd have bleach and cleaning products deployed the second an ambulance was called.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)These are people who immediately and repeatedly did the opposite of what the public health team told them to do.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Still not quite adequate, though. These people really should have been quarantined right away, and swiftly detained the moment they tried to break out.
shraby
(21,946 posts)First their hospital staff drops the ball and sends an Ebola carrier back out on the street, now their Health officials didn't bother to have the apartment cleaned, but quarantined people in it anyway.
People living in Dallas should be raising hell about the whole screw up.
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)So full of their own non-stinking shit.
I do not get it.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)ecstatic
(32,707 posts)Some of his family members may have dodged contamination up until the point when Duncan was diagnosed, but they might be infected now as a result of being forced to stay inside a highly contaminated home. This confirms my doubts about how things are being handled. I realize that defending "state of the art" healthcare system is a coping mechanism for some, and that's fine, but I prefer to stay grounded in reality.
xocet
(3,871 posts)and that that greatness trickles down by default to every aspect of American life. In this particular instance, Ebola will easily be contained by the extraordinarily competent, highly skilled paragons of managerial excellence and personal freedom that festoon the highest and lowest echelons of that bastion of the exultation of individual merit that is otherwise known as Texas.
Seriously, why do you hate our freedoms?
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)She said she's been sleeping on the sofa & avoiding his bed since the sheets were still on it.
Said the CDC people were suppose to be there today to clean but hadn't shown up as of this morning.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Really was mishandled.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)That's all I have .... i can't fathom this level of incompetence (from the very beginning)
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)something that's bothering me is that this isn't supposed to spread via air b/c it takes a larger amount of body fluid -- a "droplet" -- to be contagious.
but then are surfaces an issue?
sure it's not likely for someone to vomit or bleed in your mouth. but, having contact with the medical waste or contagious surfaces seems like it would still be a problem. like, if Mr. Duncan was vomiting in the ER, then any of the materials used to clean up the mess would be biohazards, for sure.
Likewise, if you're on an airplane you're not in danger if the person coughs and you're sitting two rows up. But if you sit in the sick person's seat on the next flight, and contact a droplet (where they covered their mouth with their hand and then put it on the arm rest) -- would that be an issue?
not trying to look for ways to panic, rather I'm imagining that it's likely our health and safety depend on minimum wage workers like janitors and housekeeping -- and that while we're getting healthcare workers up to speed it's also probably important to be training these professionals.
But i have little faith that that is happening.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)It's a pathogen safety datasheet from Canada, very comprehensive and concise.
http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/lab-bio/res/psds-ftss/ebola-eng.php
wait, what? so it can be transferred 7 weeks after recovery through sex? or, am i reading this wrong?
Avalux
(35,015 posts)Even if a person recovers from Ebola, the virus is still present in their semen, and can be transmitted through unprotected sex.
that could be a huge issue after initial containment... so what about women, is their vaginal fluid contagious also?
so technically kent brantly is still contagious by his semen?
Avalux
(35,015 posts)And I would say that Kent Brantly could possibly transmit the virus to his wife via unprotected sex.
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)is going off of the charts.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)sheets sweat stained, then once dry is it safer to handle?
i personally do not know enough about the disease at this point, to point the finger as imcompetent or not. i think as we continue to learn about the disease, and different situations with the disease, people, we will have a better idea.
the four people harboring the man at their house, were aware from the get go, and hopefully, took the precautions. limiting him to one area. maybe close door to it, until cleaned. whatever. what i do know, is we do not know all we need to for judgment.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)ebola remain infectious even when dried, for 2 and possibly up to 5 days. Per CDC.
Proteinaceous debris, as we call it, is a great protective layer. When we clean cages in veterinary hospitals, first we clean and clean to get all the dirt off. And then we clean one more time to disinfect. We use Roccal-D in my place. Bleach is too corrosive for general use but I will use it for certain tough pathogens like fungal spores or feline coronavirus.
LostInAnomie
(14,428 posts)If these people were going to be exposed, they would have already have been exposed. Keep them shut up tigjt in there and by all means do not let them out. That is the point of a quarantine.
Plus, if the news I have been reading is correct, they probably knew Duncan had been exposed and facilitated his coming to the US. If that's true, we shouldn't do them any special favors.
Mariana
(14,858 posts)Please do explain why you think this child is responsible for this situation.
LostInAnomie
(14,428 posts)... because they're 13? Will the people they could potentially infect bleed from their eyes, vomit up blood, or shit out their intestines less because they caught it from a 13yo?
It sucks members of their family probably knowingly put them in this situatuion, but you can't unring a bell. They should be quarantined until we know they aren't infected.
Mariana
(14,858 posts)They should not be shut up with contaminated materials - even if YOU think they deserve it.
LostInAnomie
(14,428 posts)If they were going to be infected they probably already are. Moving them and sending people in there to clean the area only puts more people at risk.
Purveyor
(29,876 posts)xocet
(3,871 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)A city the size of Dallas & there's no effing hazmat?
ColesCountyDem
(6,943 posts)Texas being Texas, someone is probably trying to figure out how to hire some homeless street person for $5/hr. cash to do the work.
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)FloriTexan
(838 posts)But its also very crowded and lots of mixed use development apartments and rail service runs through there.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)....this clean up. Authorities were having trouble finding a crew.
riverwalker
(8,694 posts)I watched the press conference, they said they had trouble finding a contractor to clean his belongings. In full HazMat suits probably.
Yet, I bet the hospital staff, before his diagnosis was confirmed, like the housekeepers cleaned up the vomit, blood and urine, risking their lives for $8.00 an hour.
We can't even contain E.Coli when it runs rampant in hospitals and nursing homes. We are trusting ignorant corporate hospital CEO's, who only care for the bottom line, to contain this.
FloriTexan
(838 posts)3 more students from another school in Richardson Texas (different ISD) were pulled out of class today. No symptoms.
No one has cleaned the apartment yet because no cleaning companies want to do it out of contamination concerns.
All this from one guy who, whatever his reasoning, knew he was exposed to ebola, chose to travel, chose not to be treated immediately upon arrival, lied on the forms to get him on the plane, then said they told the hospital he was from Liberia but nothing else, apparently.
It should also be noted that Governor Perry did not expand medicare in Texas and did not join Obamacare. I've had a few procedures at this very Presby Hospital and it is a good hospital. I'm just glad he did not go to Parkland where many indigent and non-insureds go.
The son of this carrier said he had to call the CDC, but if that's true, why did the first responders not know it was possible ebola. I have so many questions now.
This is the biggest clusterfuck I've seen in a long time. This is how it will spread and it will happen again. Complacency at its worst.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)(First reports were the 26th, but now they're saying the 25th.)
But if by "first responders," you're referring to the ambulance crew on the 28th, that's a very good question. Did anyone tell them to prepare for a likely Ebola patient?
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)on and he got very worried at the mishandling and called CDC to scream bloody murder. That's what got the folks in Dallas to wake up and handle him properly.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)emergency help. The report I saw said it was Mr. Duncan's nephew that called the CDC.
Interesting that he lied about Ebola exposure on a travel form.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)My guess is, Texas public health said "nah, you can go to school, you look fine", and then CDC came in and said "HOLY CRAP, get those kids into isolation NOW!!!" And then had a serious talk with the morons at Texas public health.
LostInAnomie
(14,428 posts)... knew he had been exposed to Ebola and were completely indifferent to the lives that he put at risk. It aslo sounds like he was trying to avoid criminal liability when he went to the hospital the first time or else he would have said something.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)vomit-/feces-/urine-soaked.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)"You don't want to obey the health department, and in doing so jeopardize the lives of everyone in the US potentially? Get out of the US right now."
Aerows
(39,961 posts)but amen to that!
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)janlyn
(735 posts)but it seems to me that even though our authorities claim that the US is fully prepared if the virus makes it to the states, it doesn't seem that is the case.
I was worried about how well all the different agencies would communicate in a case like this, and it seems I might have had a reason to worry.
If they are confused over something as simple as who will handle the bio waste, we might need to rethink how prepared we really are!
Lars39
(26,109 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)Bosonic
(3,746 posts)(CNN) -- Four days after a man was diagnosed with Ebola in Dallas, the apartment where he stayed has not been sanitized, a cleaning crew contracted to do the job said. Four other people are still living there.
Thomas Eric Duncan became the first person diagnosed with Ebola on American soil when he was hospitalized this week after arrival from Liberia.
His partner and her family are in isolation at the apartment, which still has the sheets and towels used by Duncan.
...
As concerns grow over how many people he may have exposed to the deadly virus, a plan to sanitize the apartment was delayed late Thursday.
Brad Smith of the Cleaning Guys, the company hired to sanitize the apartment, said they do not have the proper permits to transport hazardous waste on Texas highways.
Smith said authorities sent them away late Thursday before they entered the apartment and told them to come back with proper permits. It's unclear how long that will take.
"The permit is being processed through DOT (Department of Transportation) because it is a special permit," Smith said.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/03/health/ebola-us/index.html
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)need to be in a place that is not contaminated. WTF is the state doing, leaving them in there?
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)It's inexcusable.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)That would help a lot, but still, it is inexcusible, inhumane, probably in some way illegal to keep them in contaminated quarters. But hey, Rick Perry and all that crap.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)The woman relative. Of course.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)pnwmom
(108,980 posts)The girlfriend of America's first Ebola patient has been quarantined in their home with three other people where the sheets and towels he used have still not been removed.
The woman, who gave her name as Louise, spoke to CNN journalist Anderson Cooper by phone from inside the apartment she shared with Thomas Eric Duncan.
She told Mr Cooper the sheets that Mr Duncan had slept on were still on the bed they had shared.
She was avoiding the bed and sleeping in the living room instead. She told CNN: "I don't know what to do."
SNIP
She had placed towels used by Mr Duncan in a plastic bag but they were still in the apartment. She had also used bleach to clean the apartment.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)pnwmom
(108,980 posts)pnwmom
(108,980 posts)But they'll keep telling us how prepared they are.
Except for when they aren't.