Ebola: I'm dumbfounded...

[PCIntern]

Okay, forget Ebola just for one moment if you can. Let's talk about communicable diseases of the generic variety here in the United States: so what do we have here? Colds, various flus, childhood diseases, parasitic worms, head lice, you know, all the stuff you deal with on a daily basis if you work in an office, eat in a restaurant, go to school, associate with friends, ride public transportation, shop. Except for absolute pathological recluses, this is virtually everyone in the US of A. None of us enjoy getting any of these diseases or the conditions which are manifest after their contraction, but they certainly are widespread. Vaccines have helped in many respects, unless you're an anti-Vaxxer, but then what can you say? Your children pay the penalties, you get to pontificate as to what an ethical purist you are while your kid has whooping cough in the other room. But I digress.

So…why are these viruses and bacteria so prevalent? Bad hand washing, food preparation, toilet habits certainly contribute as do interpersonal behaviors such as affection and affection-leading-to-sex. Droplets everywhere! Pathogens galore!

So again, in theory we can trace who these people work with, who they cavort with, and who they may contact in a store. But what if…the infected, symptomatic individual takes a bus, is standing and holding a pole, and sneezes on the pole and associated structures? The next person at the next stop reaches over, grabs the pole and is now infected by any definition. How is that going to be tracked? It isn't…and if the person who is next infected is, say, a daycare worker, who cannot afford to miss a day from work due to a low-grade fever, then maybe four or five or ten people may then be infected. And so it goes. Just hypothesizing.

So this is within the realm of possibility. To deny that it is is, IMHO, foolish. Yes, this particular disease is harder to 'catch' in some respects, but just as easy in others. The jury is out.

[PSPS]

1. You're right. The only rational solution is to just stay under the bed (please take extra underwear)

[PCIntern]

3. That was NOT the point of the post.

But you knew that...

[BillZBubb]

77. I certainly don't get the point of your post.

[Octafish]

2. It requires an all-out approach.

While medicine and government play a part in containing and stopping the ebola epidemic, so must each member of the community -- from washing hands, covering one's mouth when coughing or sneezing, getting news and information, and supporting efforts to treat those with illness. It's not "Satan Bug" bad, but that one may be out there.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

4. Well said, my dear PCIntern. I can't add anything but K&R. n/t

[Avalux]

5. Viruses and bacteria are so prevalent because there are billions of them everywhere...

they were here before human beings, and they'll be here when we're gone. Most are not harmful, some are helpful, and some are bad for us. You have a lot of them living on your skin and inside your body right now.

While we can do things to cut back on infection rates, we will never get to a point where we can eradicate the ones that are spread very easily, like respiratory infections. Ebola is not a respiratory infection, sneezing and coughing are not cardinal signs, it's not spread that way - not airborne. It's not easy to catch.

So I'm a little confused by your last two sentences. How is Ebola easier to catch, and why is the jury still out?

[PCIntern]

7. Did I not just say that it is harder

To catch? Am I hallucinating? What jury am I on? That is not the question. The question is what will the verdict be? The circumstances will eventually provide the answer.

[Demit]

27. You said 'harder to catch in some respects, but just as easy in others'.

That's what the poster was asking about. Maybe you should explain what you meant by it being 'just as easy' to catch.

[PCIntern]

28. Yes:

If I have it and sneeze into your mouth you could catch it. Same as you would a cold or the flu. Easy, right? the guy lifted his relative in her death throes and he caught it. Also easy. It's not like you have to go thru a 16 step transformation and be beamed down to Vulcan sideways to get it.

[Avalux]

60. Ebola is not transmitted the same as a cold or the flu.

You speak in contradictions, no? While what you say is possible, that being close enough to someone that mucous from a sneeze (which isn't a symptom) could end up in your mouth and infect you, it's not the same as a cold or the flu.

Direct personal contact with body fluids.

[kestrel91316]

73. Spittle >>>>> into somebody else's eyes/mouth/nose just sufficient to

contact the mucosa. That's all it takes. That's why the masks and goggles.

[Avalux]

74. That is direct personal contact, still not the same as a cold or the flu. n/t

[kestrel91316]

76. I never said it was the same as colds of flu, which are aerosolized and

float about for prolonged periods.

The average person thinks direct personal contact means your body part actually touching their body part. THAY is why this always needs clarification.

I really can't stand people second guessing CDC and trying to minimize the seriousness of this situation. Unless you are a Phd epidemiologist specializing in reportable infectious diseases, you don't want to be trying to imply CDC is wrong. And if you are and do, you still need the published studies to back up your claims.

That last part isn't necessarily directed at you, but rather at the many armchair infectious disease experts that have popped up here on DU. Most of whom have zero formal education in biology, let alone this specialized field of expertise.

[Avalux]

80. My apologies....

Last edited Sun Oct 5, 2014, 03:49 PM - Edit history (1)

I got you confused with someone else in this thread, so my original post was incorrect. I thought you said something you didn't.

[Marrah_G]

9. It's also not healthy to live in a sterile environment.

[PCIntern]

30. THAT is the POST OF THE YEAR!

Prize-worthy!

[Marrah_G]

31. Hehe- thanks

I noticed when my kids were growing up that the kids who got sick the most were the ones that never ever got dirty, rarely played outside, etc. Their pediatrician agreed. Said kids being outside and being exposed to the elements, trees, dirt, etc was good for them.

Except for bad viruses that can be lethal of course ( just in case anyone thought I was talking about ebola)

[PCIntern]

32. With that in mind...

the possibilities are endless.

[kestrel91316]

72. Ebola is highly infectious because it takes only 1-10 virus particles

to cause infection. This is clearly defined and understood scientific terminology that epidemiologists and virologists use. Nothing vague or uncertain about it.

And then, depending on how fast you start supportive care and how high quality that supportive care is, you may or may not be one of the 70% who die of it.

We are fortunate that Ebola is a "fragile" virus in the environment, meaning it dies quickly. Unless it is safe inside a deposit of proteinaceous debris (commonly known as bodily fluid), in which case survival is highly variable and could be a week. And it survives VERY well in cold/freezing temperatures. So sloppy cleaning/disinfection of the environment could leave infectious virus particles around on surfaces.

"Easier to catch" is just a vague term with no scientific meaning.

[Boomer]

6. Which jury are you serving on?

I'm still trying to figure out what point you're trying to make.

Life is hard?

Shit happens?

The sky is falling?

Yes, it's possible that we'll have small outbreaks of ebola all over the U.S. and that our eroded health system will not handle them as well as it should. Once we've gotten everyone's attention, though, containment and eradication are quite achievable.

I'm much more concerned how an easily communicable disease would test our under-funded, under-staffed public health systems and hospitals. We've dodged the bullet on SARS and flu so far, so hopefully ebola will jar people into action.

[PCIntern]

8. Does every post have to be a dissertation?

I made a series of statements which were self-limiting. Please take it as it reads. If I wanted to say that The Black Death was upon us I would have.

[Boomer]

10. Where are you going with this?

A post doesn't have to be a dissertation to have a point. I can't figure out what your point was in starting this thread.

Just random comments about ebola? Feel free to ramble, but don't be surprised that people are replying with "wut?".

I'm not trying to be snarky. As someone fascinated by ebola for a host of different reasons, I'll read just about anything touching on that topic, but I didn't grasp what this thread is supposed to be about.

[PCIntern]

12. All right...

step back a bit:

See, the other day I posted that I thought that it was more than a little ironic that all of this was taking place in Dallas for a variety of reasons AND I was pretty sure a priori that the so-called public health folk were going to screw this up in the short and possibly the long term. And I was excoriated at first for my opinion, people insulting me and praising the wonderful Dallas Presby System and then it turned out that my skepticism was well-founded.

And then there were all these posts arguing about the virulence of the disease and very few people here understand the nature of transmission of viral illness despite their backgrounds or experience. That's OK in and of itself: this is a lay message board. So what I was saying was, forget Ebola for a minute, let's look at common diseases and how they're transmitted and then I allowed the reader to extrapolate. You know, the phrase "very unlikely" does not apply when you have millions of individuals and quintillions of viral particles. I drew no conclusions in the post. I have some thoughts but they're just that: thoughts. Doesn't really matter what you or I think, it is only what the viral particle does that matters. People who want to argue can feel free to argue with it. Good luck.

[1dogleft]

33. I have no idea why

so many are jumping all over you. It sounded reasonable

[PCIntern]

34. I have been here ten years...

I just took a break for a few weeks because I didn't get it either and I'd been thru the primary wars here numerous times and being called all kinds of names and crap but recently my integrity was impugned and I knew if I kept defending myself I would say something that would get me banned. I had a few hidden posts which I almost never had. But I'm back and will not counterpunch with negativity. Thanks for the sentiment!

[Texasgal]

36. It wasn't reasonable to bring up JFK

or the S&h debacle.

That's were it got silly to be honest. Just an FYI.

[cwydro]

13. I completely understood your OP.

Thinking the same.

[PCIntern]

14. Thank you. I'm truly appreciative.

Sometimes they make me wonder...

[magical thyme]

11. they are exposed by any definition, but not infected

They are innoculated if the pathogen finds entry into their system.

They are not infected until it begins to replicate.

Ebola is apparently pretty fragile outside a large droplet, and not truly airborne, so less transmissible than flu or colds.

Time will tell how effective tracing will be.

[PCIntern]

15. Absolutely…BUT

to quote the great Mr. Eastwood: Do you feel lucky?

e.g.: grab that doorknob that that guy from Liberia who just sneezed into his hand used ten seconds ago. No?

As clinicians, we used to lecture young people about sexual relations with high-risk individuals even WITH condoms and/or rubber dams. Same schtick.

[magical thyme]

16. I live in Maine, so for the moment I feel lucky.

It's highly unlikely that I will be exposed, innoculated or infected by Duncan. As close to zero probability as you can get.

Right now, certain healthcare workers and cohorts of Duncan are probably praying to whatever gods or goddesses they may or may not believe in for a nice dose of good luck.

[PCIntern]

18. Stephen King Territory!

Good stuff!

[ecstatic]

17. I thought about Ebola while getting my nails done the other day

I thought about how the beauty service industry would be affected by an outbreak. A nail tech is exposed to hundreds of customers and in turn, exposes hundreds of customers to whatever s/he has.

[PCIntern]

20. Try being a dentist…

really not an issue for me. By that time, I'll be out of business: no one would set foot in a dentist's office

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

57. Only the hysterical people.

I'd be fine setting foot in a dentist's office, you guys always use proper gloves, face shields, etc.

Waiting rooms are the germier spots, no?

[PCIntern]

59. You're right…I'm the one splattered with people's blood and secretions.

Patients are fine…really.

[Barack_America]

61. So where are your hysterical posts on HepC?

[seveneyes]

19. One will kill you in a very ugly way up to 90% of the time

The others not so much.

[BlueJazz]

21. Do you know the lifespan of the Ebola virus outside a host? Also..I wonder what chemicals...

...used in those sanitary wipes CAN'T kill it.

Just curious. Like your OP

[PCIntern]

24. It would vary as to the ambient temperature, nature of the surface,

and the medium. Vomit in front of a doorstep might be problematic…then again, if you read some of the posts here, maybe not.

[kestrel91316]

75. Ebola is easily killed by disinfectants that kill nonenveloped viruses.

But the proteinaceous debris is the bugaboo. All the disinfectant in the world doesn't help if your surfaces aren't free of dried specks of crud.

In my cat hospital the rule is: clean and clean and clean, until the surface is spotless. And then clean one last time to disinfect. We use a quaternary ammonium spray - Roccal-D. In rare instances we follow up with a bleach wipe (cats with dermatophytosis or FIP).

[ecstatic]

22. Also, I'm cutting the people who are minimizing the potential risks some slack

because I figure it's a coping mechanism. Maybe some people are unable to find a middle ground between denial/trivializing the threat and outright panic mode. Over the past week, we've seen multiple systems fail and important protocols broken--and we're each processing the information in different ways.

[PCIntern]

23. I understand and respect that...

now when it happens to your sister, you will be cutting much less slack.

See, this is the problem, we are all too remote…this is happening to someone else somewhere else. It was further…now its closer. Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear….

[ecstatic]

25. True. Did you see this article?

Doctor dons Ebola protection suit to protest ‘asleep at the wheel’ CDC

Two days after a man in Texas was diagnosed with Ebola, a Missouri doctor Thursday morning showed up at Atlanta’s Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport dressed in protective gear to protest what he called mismanagement of the crisis by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Dr. Gil Mobley checked in and cleared airport security wearing a mask, goggles, gloves, boots and a hooded white jumpsuit emblazoned on the back with the words, “CDC is lying!”

“If they’re not lying, they are grossly incompetent,” said Mobley, a microbiologist and emergency trauma physician from Springfield, Mo.
Mobley said the CDC is “sugar-coating” the risk of the virus spreading in the United States.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/doctor-boards-flight-in-ebola-protection-suit-to-p/nhZk8/

[PCIntern]

26. I hadn't. I like that.

what amazed me here once again were the number of knee-jerk apologists for those completely screwing up this operation. Why I get surprised every time I don't know: I'm like Charlie Brown with Lucy and the Football.

[840high]

37. I saw that.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

58. It's also training.

Nobody wants to see their doctor or nurse panicking. That just makes things a lot worse on the patient and family.

So you go into healthcare, you're taught to be cognizant of the risks as they come, but not to freak out, even when faced head on with nasty emergencies and dangerous situations. You panic, and you're halfway to becoming a victim yourself. A cool head lets you walk your way calmly through protective checklists without leaving out steps and winding up exposing yourself unnecessarily.

[Chemisse]

29. I think the danger is significant that it will spread here, yet I am not all that worried.

Because I think we can control whether or not we get infected.

If we adopt a few OCD-like habits, we could ward it off.

Like when you grab that pole on the subway or bus, and (potentially) get someone's Ebola-ridden snot on your hand, you can refrain from touching your eyes or nose until you have washed your hands. Perhaps you can carry wet wipes around until you can get to a sink. Or you could wear disposable gloves.

In Japan, people regularly wear face masks in public to prevent the spread of infections. Maybe safety glasses could be added to that. So if someone sneezes toward you, the mucous droplets won't get in your mouth and eyes.

So lots of hand-washing and some sensible protective gear could halt its casual spread. Then you just have to worry about the people you live and work with.

[magical thyme]

35. refraining from touching your eyes or nose is harder than you imagine

I can't believe how many times a day I catch myself in the lab trying to adjust my glasses or trying to scratch and itch.

Maybe carry wipes with you and wipe down your hands immediately after releasing the pole on the bus, then fold the wipe inward so any snots or whatever are inside the wipe and discard immediately.

[840high]

38. I've started carrying wipes in

my car.

[ladyVet]

39. I have my doubts about this stuff, too.

Maybe I'm not understanding it, or not remembering the stories right, but doesn't it seem odd that we bring some infected people here to treat them, and the next thing you know, we have the first case of some random person coming into the country with Ebola?

Remember how the Bush administration was all hysterical about bird flu? Going to kill us all, any minute now.

I need a tin foil hat. I can put ribbons and flowers on it. Maybe I'll start a fashion trend! Not that I'm going to panic, but it's foolish to just accept what the government says at face value. I've seen how they handle infectious disease, like when AIDS started going around in the 70s.

[PCIntern]

40. Well, that's how disease spreads

AFAIC, it's like someone who practices unprotected sex exclaiming that they somehow got pregnant.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

53. That's a normal way for a human to think.

We always try to make patterns even where there are none.

Maybe I'm not understanding it, or not remembering the stories right, but doesn't it seem odd that we bring some infected people here to treat them, and the next thing you know, we have the first case of some random person coming into the country with Ebola?

The only real connections there are that A) ebola exists, and B) people who went where it was spreading came here.

The guy who brought it to the US on his own wasn't connected with the doctors who were brought back, nor did he fly in the same planes, use the same ambulances, etc.

Do I accept what 'the government' says at face value? No, of course not. But I do accept what the actual people who spend their lives studying ebola or similar hemorrhagic diseases say, and what they write down in papers that end up being on places like PubMed or CDC websites as being the best available info we've got for now.

So it's fine to be overly cautious, but don't panic in advance. Don't hang out with people who seem to have the flu, wash your hands a lot, don't touch your eyes, mouth or nose if you can avoid it. Skip public bathrooms if you can. Use gloves and other protective gear when you are going to come in contact with bodily fluids other than your own, especially if you don't know where they come from.

And those are all good advice even without worrying about ebola.

[customerserviceguy]

41. "Colds, various flus, childhood diseases, parasitic worms, head lice"

Don't cause about half of the people who acquire them to die. If you can't distinguish that, then there is no sense talking to you.

This is radically different, and the folks in the mushy middle who decide the weekend before an election which party scares them the least will surely make a determination about which party is more concerned about this, and which party simply doesn't want to hurt the feelings of unfortunate people of Third World countries.

[elias49]

42. This is fear-mongering.

Why persist with this? How many more OPs before you're satisfied that everyone is alarmed/
Things like "...when your sister gets it..." are just bull-shit.
This is right-wing talk radio stuff.

[PCIntern]

43. You are dead wrong...

if precautions aren't taken and they are sloppy like they're being someone's sister is gonna get it. I went thru your kind of dismissal during the GRID/AIDS crisis and people listened to folks like you. And they died. So you wanna play games with others' lives, you go right ahead - I'm not going to just accept your knowitallism. Accuse me of being a RWer, will you? I've been here for ten offing years through a lot of misinformation and surety wherein the people had to retrench. Posters like you were all over me the other day when I said that the hospital was fucking up and guess what…they did fuck up. "The GREAT Texas System…BS on that crap. This is life and death.

You know, before Y2K there were deniers…and then when people spent months and years to adapt the systems so that they would work on 1/1/00, people like you said, Toldja nothing would happen. Brilliant…just brilliant.

[elias49]

46. We're all gonna die!!! (That better?) nt

[PCIntern]

47. Nothing in between, right?

Yup, the world is black and white to folks like you. No subtlety, no thought process required, no reasonableness of decision-making, no science. Why, I recall someone saying once: You're either with us or against us.

[elias49]

48. Read your own OP PC!

You have "what ifs" "hypotheticals" "Maybes" You can do that with anything: what if you were driving down the hiway..in a driving rain...and let's say your tires aren't the greatest...and suppose you start hydroplaning...and if you were right next to an 18-wheeler...you know where Im going with this.
Bottom line is that I believe no-one wants to die prematurely. Doctors, nurses, biologists, etc...I believe American health professionals are doing/will do everything in their power to control/eliminate the threat of an ebola epidemic in the US. To post about worst-case scenarios does no-one any good. Don't you thing the folks on these boards are smart enough to take precautions? But I draw the line at not leaving my home.
By the way...yo r reply to my first post was priceless. "You're DEAD wrong" Hahaha! Cute.

[PCIntern]

49. What the hell are you talking about?

I was pointing out how disease spreads - the mechanism. Nowhere did I say anything about not living ones life. I am an American Health Care Professional and I know EXACTLY how sloppily everything is treated. But you just want to twist and disrupt…and you are disrupting poorly. Like anyone would really care what you think. Bad attempt at hijack. Bye.

[elias49]

50. Just hypothesizing .. like you.

And hardly disrupting. Unless disagreeing with you is 'disrupting'

[PCIntern]

51. Now you'll walk it back...

Transparent.

[Warpy]

44. There are a lot of things at work

First, too many people don't buy the germ theory of disease. You can't see them, your hands look perfectly clean, why take the time to wash?

Second, and really important, is short staffing in every business out there, whether they sell food, shoes, or health care.

Other contributors are not wanting to put your hands in water when it's cold, not wanting to be splashed, having hands rough and chapped from too many times in water, and for some people, just not caring, especially since wages have fallen so low.

[PCIntern]

45. that's very true, Warpy:

I wash my hands over 150 times daily as part of my work. I use a moderately-priced commercial soap and my hands are very very soft since I don't do manual labor much anymore like carpentry, electrical, or plumbing. I wear a glove when I play tennis. I'm never chapped or scaly. Yes it takes time to wash hands but I do something while I do it: talk to someone, think about something which needs to be done, or just come up with necessary witty retorts for the naysayers at DU. I get sick maybe once every two to three years, usually a cold, rarely the flu - although my resistance is probably better than most due to exposure over decades - and of course I use latex gloves. If people realized how easy it is to transfer bacteria, they would diminish the times that they do what they do like leave a bathroom having touched the door handle after they've washed, or eaten something which is questionable. Interestingly, eating of the floor is not the worst thing you can do, not that it's that great of course. I'd rather eat off a floor and risk some bird parasite than touch the E coli. laden fixtures in public rest rooms after I've washed. I'm sure people are going to be rolling their eyes, but think about this: you know what you call "stomach flu"? That is oral-fecal and not your-fecal. Someone else's and I mean fecal, not just the bacteria. Yummy salad bar, right?

And that's just the food-borne illnesses…people should know what else is out there these days. Things are a bit different than they were 30 years ago.

[Nay]

63. I've been wondering about the food-borne illnesses that seem to be

everywhere as well. Why? In the last year, I have had THREE possible food poisoning/contact poisoning episodes, and I am a fairly paranoid person about hand washing, food prep., etc. All 3 times I was on vacation in the States. All 3 times I had eaten 'notorious' foods -- fish, eggs, eggs.(Twice in restaurants, once I had prepared the eggs myself.) In a couple of hours the violent diarrhea and extreme nausea started. After the bowel emptied somewhat, I was seized by vomiting which continued until I was completely empty at both ends. (Yes, it is possible to vomit and have diarrhea at exactly the same time I had to throw away the pants.). After every orifice had stopped erupting, I felt nearly normal except for chills, aches and a headache. The whole process took about 6-8 hours. The next day I feel fine.

I am 63 and cannot remember the last time I had such episodes -- maybe 2 or 3 in the whole rest of my life? And now I have 3 in the span of 9 months? I don't have a compromised immune system. What has changed in the last 30 years, in your opinion, that is making this sort of thing so much more common? Lax regs on restaurants, grocery stores, egg factories? No inspectors? Truly, I'm just about to give up traveling because I'm getting sick nearly every time. It's enough of a hassle to travel when you're diabetic, I don't need to throw up/shit for a whole day, too.

[PCIntern]

64. Interesting...

did you ever hear about "Sauce Bearnaise Effect"? Look it up on Wiki if you haven't…

The only place I ever got food poisoning in Philly was, and no lie, The Four Seasons Hotel at a New Years Eve Party. Could be your resistance is down and you aren't handling low-level food poisoning as well as you used to. There was a luncheonette in Town here where the food was always a little 'off'. Some people would eat the tuna salad and get sick, others would not. They finally closed. A friend of mine ran into John and Yoko there when they were hosting The Mike Douglas Show years ago. He was sitting on a stool at the counter and asked the guy to his right to pass the ketchup and WOW!

[Nay]

67. I didn't know that was one of its names, but yes, I am familiar with that

effect. I have a friend who got very sick after eating chicken -- he never ate it again. I don't seem to have that reaction, though. I'm still eating eggs and fish. It's true that right after puking my guts out, I don't feel like eating another egg or a 2nd piece of fish right away, but in a few days I'm over it. It's just about to put me off traveling, though!!

As far as my resistance being down, I don't think so. I have a grandson in grade school who brings home all sorts of viruses. His parents get sick, but I haven't been sick with a cold or flu for several years now despite exposure.

It's a mystery.

[PCIntern]

70. Often it is the utensil used to cut your salad was used for something else

having worked in restaurant/school cafeteria kitchens from the age of 12(!) (required in my school if you were on scholarship) til I was 26. Reminds me of the old Berton Rouche book Eleven Blue Men. You just never know...

[valerief]

52. "We got this. Nothing to see. Move along, people."

[PCIntern]

54. …and how dare you insolently question our methodology?

Doesn't it make all the sense in the world that even if there are many cases it doesn't constitute an outbreak? I mean, what is the matter with everyone?

[valerief]

55. Well, America does have the best press conferences in the world, so I guess

if they're good at that, they must be good at everything else. We don't let facts get in the way of confidence.

"We're number 1 in bravado! We're number 1 in bravado!"

[librechik]

56. if it gets bad enough, Americans will start wearing masks and gloves esp. on public transportation

Grocery stores offer antiseptic wipes before grabbing the cart handle--we'll all have to become more aware. It's probably we should do the same for flu season.

[unblock]

62. read this ny times q&a; the virus does not spread readily

Q

Can I get Ebola from public transportation? As in, if a passenger coughed into their hand and then held onto the pole, and then another passenger held onto that pole and inadvertently wiped their eye?

A
The answer is no. Someone with Ebola is really, really sick. They’re seeking hospital care. It is unlikely they are riding the bus. They are not going to work. The virus is spread by bodily fluid contact: by blood, by vomit. When it’s being spread by sweat or urine, you’re practically at the dead body stage. So it’s not transmitted the way that colds could be, by touching a pole in a subway or bus.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/10/03/ebola-ask-well-spread-public-transit/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

----

you're only really contagious when you're in the actively very, very sick stage, not at all likely to take a bus in the first place.

while passing the disease along via a surface such as metal is theoretically possible, in practice it just doesn't happen that way. by far the vast majority of transmissions have been to people in direct care of someone who is actively very sick with ebola, i.e., in the bleeding and vomiting stage.

[magical thyme]

65. the earliest symptoms are fever and headache

It is somewhat contagious at that point. The sicker the patient, the higher the viral load. It is highest when they are dead.

Blood and vomit are only 2 of the body fluids that carry it. Mucus, sweat, urine and feces are 4 more.

The mucus and sweat viral loads are low because those membranes and glands aren't directly attacked. The feces load is high because it directly attacks the liver. the urine load I expect would also be high because iirc it also directly attacks the kidneys.

It is fragile and does not survive long outside the body, but in a large droplet can survive for hours at RT, longer in colder temps. However UV from the sun light will destroy it, but note that UV light does not pass through glass so count out window light.

And it only takes 1 to 10 virions to infect. Initially it directly infects your monocytes and macrophages. They are an intrinsic part of your "innate" or "nonspecific" immune system, so it is knocking out your first immune response right from the get go. Later on, it also directly attacks your lymphs, causing a massive die off of your specific immune response. They do rebound somewhat if you can survive long enough. Treatment without the experimental antibody drugs consists of keeping people alive long enough to develop an antibody response.

[unblock]

68. i'm not saying it can never be spread to people who had no idea they came into contact with

bodily fluids of an actively sick ebola patient, e.g., touch a tiny droplet on a bus pole.

what i'm saying is that in practice is doesn't really spread this way, for a variety of reasons, none of which are absolute, but collectively they make such scenarios highly improbable.

it's similar to improbably transmissions of other illnesses, for instance, it's possible to get hiv from kissing. however, as long as that disease has been around, only a tiny number of cases have happened that way (hiv isn't spread through saliva, so the already infected person has to have bleeding gums or open sores and you probably have to french kiss to transfer any blood and you're not likely to french kiss someone with bleeding gums or open sores, and even if you did, it's still not 100% likely to transmit to disease itself.)


yes such things are possible but keep it in context. you're far, far more likely to die from getting in an accident and dying because you're standing in a bus just holding a pole than from getting ebola from that pole.

[PCIntern]

66. If they are allowed in the hospital due to insurance problems OR

maybe they just didn't go. Now I am not saying it is GOING to happen, but it CAN happen. That is what we have to be careful of.

[unblock]

69. yes, but you're more likely to die from a bus accident trauma than from bus pole ebola.

[PCIntern]

71. that is certainly true at this time...

no question. Hopefully that won't change...

[BillZBubb]

78. Are you saying if the are NOT allowed in the hospital?

Your posts tend to lose me at times.

[HockeyMom]

79. Quaranteed after "exhibiting flu like symptoms" of vomiting

What? Vomiting is a sympton of the flu? No, it isn't. Misinformation. Vomiting and diarrhea are symptoms of a NOROVIRUS, commonly referred to as the Stomach Flu. It's not the same as the "flu" which you get vax against. There is no vax for norovius, which is also very contagious, but not spread with coughing and sneezing, because you DON'T cough and sneeze with that. Hell, people can vomit in public from being DRUNK. Ebola?????? I have heard other people post that they MUST get their yearly flu shot so they don't vomit in public and others think Ebola! lol Not going to help with stomach flu, people. lol

Media, and probably the CDC, spreading fear and misinformation with hidden agendas. Panic keeps people watching 24 hour news shows, and promotes flu shots.