Nice to know these parents are just actors in some diabolical CIA scheme

[cali]

to..... I dunno, end the world? start WWIII? Nice to know they're not really begging for the life of their 26 year old son. Nice to know that if he actually exists, he's an actor too and the letter he wrote his parents saying he was scared to die, was actually penned by some CIA spook... or something. Or hey, maybe he will get beheaded but ISIS is a CIA front and really, the U.S. is behind these acts.


http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/10/05/parents-of-u-s-aid-worker-send-an-impassioned-plea-to-his-isis-captors-let-our-son-go/

US hostage Kassig letter: 'I am scared to die'

Abdul-Rahman Kassig, known as Peter Kassig before he converted to Islam, wrote in June that he was "scared to die" and saddened by the pain his ordeal was causing to the family.

Last week IS posted a video showing the beheading of UK hostage Alan Henning.

It ended with a threat to kill 26-year-old Mr Kassig.

It was the fourth such video released by the militant group, which controls large swathes of Syria and Iraq.

Previous victims were American reporter James Foley, American-Israeli journalist Steven Sotloff and British aid worker David Haines.

IS said they were killed in retaliation for US-led air strikes on the group's targets.

Ed and Paula Kassig said they had decided to release excerpts from their son's letter "so the world can understand why we and so many people care for him and admire him".

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29501837


One can be against military intervention in Iraq and Syria and not buy into callous, deranged and stupid shit. It's not hard to grasp why this isn't the 'Iraq incubator babies' tale. There's a ton of evidence and beyond that, anyone with a scintilla of logic could figure out in a minute that such a conspiracy would be impossible to carry out. Not unlikely. Fucking impossible. You'd have to have planned it decades in advance and have thousands of people in on it.

I've been, and remain, strongly opposed to military intervention in Syria and Iraq. It's counter-productive. I believe that the U.S. is indeed, in large part, responsible for ISIS in the sense that had we not invaded Iraq they wouldn't exist or if they did, they'd be weak. But this shit? It's so stupid and cruel. I have nothing but contempt for those who believe and spread this shit.

[CJCRANE]

1. Have you read the full 9/11 report?

[cali]

2. oh fuck. let's not get into 9/11

have you any evidence whatsoever that this is a CIA backed plot of some kind and that ISIS didn't actually kill these people?

[CJCRANE]

4. The full 9/11 report has not been released.

Forty four Democratic Senators voted to release the redacted pages back in '04 or '05 but the GOP voted against it.

If we do not even know the full story of the event that caused all these trillion dollar wars and resulted in our freedoms being taken away then what chance is there of us not being fooled again?

Not only do we not know the full story but most people don't even ask to know it.

DUers were among the '10%' that didn't approve of Bush after 9/11.

There is no shame in being part of the '6%' this time who ask questions.

I don't agree with Naomi Wolf on this issue but that doesn't mean we shouldn't dig deeper.

[Maedhros]

65. I think you have it right, CJ.

Yes, Wolf's theory is flimsy. However given what we know about how the Pentagon manufactures consent for their wars, it is prudent to continually question every justification they put forward for engaging in military strikes.

IMO, this is Wolf's transgression: by pushing an outlandish theory (i.e. the beheadings were faked), she taints by association others who are questioning the official narrative.

[el_bryanto]

3. Which one? The official one? nt

[CJCRANE]

5. The Congressional 9/11 Report.

The full report hasn't been released.

[el_bryanto]

6. And if I read that report that hasn't been released I would learn what?

[CJCRANE]

7. It's fairly well known what it covers.

But obviously by definition I can't tell you exactly what's in a report that's never been released.

[el_bryanto]

8. And what it covers would prove that this beheading was a con job? or am I reaching? nt

[CJCRANE]

23. It proves that the general public doesn't know

the full story behind 9/11.

However, that may be moot as Joe Biden provided some insight into the story behind ISIS.

[NCTraveler]

10. Because dying can be some scarry shit? nt.

[2naSalit]

11. Good question. n/t

[cali]

12. you're kidding right? first of all, this kid converted to Islam after his capture

and he's been in captivity for a year now. more broadly, why wouldn't a person of faith be like the vast majority of humans? I'm so sick of the nasty, dim, attacks on people of faith.

[Dreamer Tatum]

14. I'll second Cali

but I will add that people of faith might be scared to die because they're human. Fallible. Vulnerable.
Just like you. I know that doesn't fit your narrative, but people are complex creatures, not comic book
characters.

[Dreamer Tatum]

21. That you cannot comprehend why a person of faith would be afraid to die.

Fatuousness gets nowhere with me.

[Dreamer Tatum]

30. Odd how you won't explain your own question.

Which, I presume, means your question was rhetorical, and therefore of the trolling variety.

I am a person of marginal faith, yet somehow I find it within myself to respect the beliefs and
humanity of others.

Give it a whirl sometime.

[Dreamer Tatum]

46. I have not seen someone so unabashed in their ignorance on DU

so I have to believe that you're just trolling.

People become religious for a number of reasons, but I would guess that indemnification against
fear of death is far down on the list. What is probably high on the list would be personal fulfillment
and spiritual wholeness, which at this late date probably seem corny and trite to someone as
utterly cool as you.

People have expressed faith in higher beings and in higher powers since there have been people. It
isn't my responsibility to explain or defend it to unserious people, such as yourself. I would merely suggest
that if you're even a tenth as smart and progressive as I'm sure you think you are, you'd seek out guidance
in this path of yours, to understand the mystery of faith. I suspect that to you, this means you'd have to
visit a Southern Baptist tent revival or a Catholic Church, so why not start somewhere less susceptible
to snark, sarcasm, and bullshit? Try a mosque or an Indian reservation - those are places where I bet
you wouldn't be quite so snarky.

[Dreamer Tatum]

62. Smug. From someone who asked what you asked.

OK.

[Dreamer Tatum]

66. I'm not qualified to educate anyone on the mystery of faith.

Especially someone dead set against actually learning anything about it.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

67. Smug and judgemental. Got it. I LIKE HOW Y'ALL GET MY POST LOCKED SO I

Last edited Mon Oct 6, 2014, 02:27 PM - Edit history (2)

CAN'T REPLY AND THEN RUSH IN AND HAVE YOUR SAY!

To those of you trying to run me off.... I will simply not post until my hides are cleared! Haha!

[LanternWaste]

89. Six of one, half a dozen of the other...

"They grasp onto religion in order not to be scared!"

"smug, all-knowing response. I expected no less from you..."




Six of one, half a dozen of the other...

[cali]

22. well there's something that doesn't happen all that frequently-

that we're in agreement, but thanks.

[Dreamer Tatum]

26. Selection bias. I generally don't reply when I agree.

And I don't reply that often, so maybe the sign on that parameter is different than you think.

[zappaman]

88. You better believe it! n/t

[geek tragedy]

17. You know the answer, your cute little pretense

to the contrary notwithstanding.

Maybe next you can ask why people of faith require oxygen and water.

[geek tragedy]

87. Your implication was clear--that

the fact that a person of faith was scared of dying somehow made the letters less credible.

Unless you're going to sit there and never met anyone who had religious beliefs and also was afraid of death.

[cali]

18. I sound unhinged? Hardly. You on the other hand...

It's not rocket science. It's not debatable. The vast majority of humans fear death, whether they are people of faith or not.

I think your post was just callous in the context of this kid's situation.

[cali]

28. I didn't say you were a bad person and I don't think you're stupid so that leads

me to believe that your "question" was rhetorical snark- which normally I wouldn't bother commenting on, but this kid is in imminent danger of a terrible death. He's been in captivity for a year and gone through who knows what.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

31. It was serious "question", cali, not snark. And you have NEVER seen ANYTHING from me

that indicates that I do not feel for someone who is in the predicament that Kassig is in right now. NOTHING! EVER!

[snooper2]

29. I thought people latched onto religion so they wouldn't be afraid to die?

There HAS to be something better after this existence, there HAS TO BE PLEASE! LOL

Why else would people waste perfectly good Sunday afternoons to go to church

[ChisolmTrailDem]

33. That's what I fucking thought. And these people in this fucking thread are losing it! Ask

a simple goddamned question and all the outraged come out screaming bloody murder!

[snooper2]

60. I guess I have misunderstood the purpose of religion my entire life

virgins when you die, everlasting love, eternal peace...

[ChisolmTrailDem]

61. There is no peace in the hearts of the religion-defenders in this subthread. And, frankly, it's

a major turn-off.

All I see is just smug condescension, which has always kept me just on the other side of the line from full participation in a religious doctrine.

Notice also that the OP has deigned to ignore your post.

[Dreamer Tatum]

64. No one is defending anything. You just interpret it as so.

Because, of course, you realize (maybe implicitly) that you're not asking questions. You're
fatuously attacking it. Therefore any response will appear to be a defense to you.

Maybe you should seek help for your fundamental questions of faith. There are more
learned people about religion and the mystery of faith than you are likely to find
on an internet message board.

Ah, but then you'd be learning something, and perhaps having your views challenged.
Yes, I see your conundrum now.

[Dreamer Tatum]

69. In matters of respecting deeply held beliefs of others, evidently I am better than you.

But only in those matters.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

70. So, my attempt to understand religion is equivalent to dis-respect for same?

Okaaay...

[Dreamer Tatum]

72. Your intent is obvious to everyone who is not you.

I just helped draw you out a little more.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

74. Really? What, exactly, is my intent? nt

[zappaman]

90. Yup.

Obvious.

[Union Scribe]

92. That comes as little surprise

to anyone who's seen you expound on the topic. I recall you once demanding to be shown where in the sky heaven is located.

[snooper2]

94. Voyager never found anything

I was curious since when I was "saved" at as a young teen by a bunch of old ladies putting their hands all over me. Apparently as long as you get "saved" southern style you get to go to the pearly gates no matter what you do

Just wondering how far away it was, or is it even made up of matter?

[jeff47]

83. Because they're still afraid

Who demands desperate and futile lifesaving care most frequently? The people who claim to be the most devout. Who is the most likely to have a DNR order? Atheists/agnostics.

Just because they're religious doesn't mean they are not afraid. After all, they could have picked the wrong religion.

[snooper2]

84. I believe you are correct but that just seems backasswards

Somebody needs to do a paper on this ASAP!

[geek tragedy]

16. Because people of faith are human beings.

Got any more questions to which the entire planet knows the answer?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

36. What is the purpose of religion? nt

[Dreamer Tatum]

48. To fill people like yourself with fear and loathing.

Evidently it's working well.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

75. That wasn't nice./NT

[ChisolmTrailDem]

80. Neither have been the responses to me in this thread. ETA:

Last edited Mon Oct 6, 2014, 02:40 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm taking my gloves off now!

[seveneyes]

53. The purpose of religion is to explain away that which they don't understand

And it's used by "religious leaders" to coral others into their way of thinking.

[Trillo]

19. The process of dying is scary.

Being dead is not scary.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

35. But isn't the purpose of religion to alleviate the fear of dying by believing in a "better place"?

[cali]

52. No. Most religions go more down the "meaning of life" route.

religion isn't simple. It's complex. and even though people may belong to a religion because they want to alleviate the fear of death, that hardly means they're able to eradicate that fear.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

54. Wow! I had to rub my eyes to believe it! An actual reasonable response. FINALLY! But

not after a few of you had to show your smug asses!

[el_bryanto]

39. Because they are big fakers and religion is a scam and religious people are gullible sheep

obviously. I mean that's the only logical conclusion.

Sometimes I don't know why people of faith bother with this board given it's knee jerk hatred of religion.

Bryant

[ChisolmTrailDem]

41. What evidence do you have that I hate religion?

FYI, I am myself seeking answers in the church, as I have always done. My fiance is very religious.

But nice that you know every fucking thing, el_bryanto!

[el_bryanto]

43. My evidence is that you ask such a moronic question

I know when someones fucking around, at any rate.

Bryant

[ChisolmTrailDem]

45. So, you got that I have a "hatred of religion" because I asked one simple fucking

question?

Perhaps it's you who is fucking around?

[el_bryanto]

56. One moronic question

This isn't like my first day at DU - If you were seriously wondering how a religious person could be afraid of death you would go somewhere to discuss it - like, say, the religion forum.

Don't worry though - most DUers agree with your assessment of religion. You are in good company.

Bryant

[ChisolmTrailDem]

58. What is my assessment of religion? Also,

I guess there is a such thing as a stupid question.

I'm trying to learn more about religion but I find that the religious don't want to teach, but rather they just want to bash me for asking a question.

So be it!

[el_bryanto]

76. If it were an honest question it'd be worthwhile to discuss. But it's not. nt

[el_bryanto]

91. You're responses give the game away

And your use of the phrase religion defenders is telling.

But like i said above - no worries - most people at DU are in your camp.

Bryant

[EX500rider]

73. 'Cause nobody likes having their head sawed off?

[WinkyDink]

32. How many threads do you need to have on this tripe?

[cali]

37. as many as I feel like, winkydink. trash thread is your pal.

thanks for the kick.

[MineralMan]

40. Cali, why even introduce this ridiculous conspiracy theory nonsense?

I'm not understanding any possible benefit of publicizing the "troofer" nonsense.

The two articles you link to are news. The CT nonsense is just manufactured crap. We all know that. It just doesn't belong on DU, and the nonsense in the thread about the 911 "conspiracy" is evidence of that.

Please stick to actual news stories and don't fan the conspiracy flames. That's my suggestion.

[MineralMan]

44. And I can ask her why she'd introduce a bogus conspiracy theory

in what is a news story. And I'll do that anytime it happens. I'd actually like an answer from her on that.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

47. Don't miss the sarcasm in my post, MM. nt

[MineralMan]

49. I saw it, and chose to write a serious response.

My question to cali was a serious question.

[cali]

55. because I find it disconcerting that so many DUers buy into it.

clearly we don't all know that. Also, I find it callous and offensive to those who have been killed, those in captivity and the families and friends going through this horrible ordeal.

[MineralMan]

57. Whatever. We have DUers who believe almost anything you

can imagine. It's best just to let that stuff die, not to expand on it, it seems to me.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

59. Agreed. All cali is doing is spreading the bullshit, rather than giving it the attention it

certainly deserves, which is none.

[bravenak]

78. Yo.

On Mon Oct 6, 2014, 01:24 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Agreed. All cali is doing is spreading the bullshit, rather than giving it the attention it
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5628030

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Enough of this crap. This poster is trolling, getting called on it, and is digging deeper. Now an attack?

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Oct 6, 2014, 01:38 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: That was very hurtful.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: meh
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Dear Alerter, I imagine I was supposed to read the whole thread and replies in order to arrive at the conclusion you did. I am unimpressed by the summary conclusion in the alert message, and would have found a little more detail supporting the conclusions in it to have been helpful in assessing the alert on this post.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I agree with the poster. So there
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Leave it. I think it's just about over.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The OP should be trashed, not this post

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

82. Thanks, bravenak. Some prefer to shut down others. Didn't work this time and not in

quite some time when it comes to those targeting me for expulsion from this board.

[bravenak]

86. It was a stupid alert.

All of the juries I have been on lately have been stupid. Sorry you have been getting targeted, I know how you feel.

[cali]

71. and it seems to me that you are wrong and constantly playing busybody

I don't tell YOU what to post, do me the same courtesy. you do this constantly. it's rather a bore, dear MM.

[jeff47]

85. Because this thread doesn't exist on DU

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025626644

And isn't full of people agreeing with the conspiracy theory. Including several "frequent posters".

[hrmjustin]

77. I find these conspiracy theories distasteful as well.

[Are_grits_groceries]

93. That would be a loooooooong con.

It would take years to set up to fool people because of what can be uncovered.