My father, the Catholic nuns, and Nazis - Chicago, 1961

[truedelphi]

A long time ago, in Chicago, circa early 1960's, a forty something dad explained something important to his nine year old daughter.

At the usual time, and usual place, she had waited like she often did, for his commuter train to arrive. When he finally got off the train and walked toward her, she had run up to him exclaiming "Daddy! Daddy! You are my hero. The nuns say you American soldiers were so very brave, and you stopped the Nazis, and they were all war criminals."

The man fell silent. Very silent. he looked stern. He was so sternly quiet that for a moment the young girl thought that he might hit her. (Something that he had never done before in his life.)

Then in a very gentle voice he asked her, "How can anyone in their right mind tell you kids such nonsense? The people in Germany had lost their nation to the thugs that often get to run things when there isn't a democracy. And the difference between the US soldiers and the German soldiers was that the German soldiers had been fighting in wars since 1937 - a long time spanning eight years. While we Americans had only been fighting in Germany for less than twelve months."

He paused, still looking more concerned than usual.

"The longer a war goes on, the more likely the soldiers will be de-humanized. Over time, inside war, fewer and fewer things matter. If your closest friends are killed, your moral sense goes missing. You feel like you could take out an entire village, even if the people in that village are not at fault.

"Soldiers over time become barbaric. It is simply human nature." He again paused. "And if this nation ever falls into the hands of such thugs, then the same thing will be true of our soldiers."

Then being a wise and gentle man, in the presence of a mere nine year old, he changed the subject to topics of a more lightweight nature, like her playmates, and the animal books she had him read to her. (Although she was long past the time when she couldn't read herself.)

################

That era was not a perfect time, although as it was so long ago, I often feel nostalgic for it.
To be tucked in at night! To not have to worry about bills, and to be young enough that your best friends are not suffering strange new illnesses, like the fibromyalgia affecting so many of my friends.

There was a dark side, certainly. The same nuns who explained why our fathers were heroes also said if we did not pray at least one Rosary a day, then it was inevitable that a nuclear war would occur. Often I would fall asleep, halfway through the prayer sequence, only to have troubled dreams that ended in the explosions of mushroom clouds.

But back in the day, politicians were caring about the middle class. Our school systems were ever expanding, with many communities providing even college educations to the people for little if any money. Our infrastructure was newly built: the Eisenhower era's community colleges, community hospitals and endless freeways all were brand spanking new. The war we were fighting, or about to fight, was not sanitized for easy consumption. We had boots on the ground, and in a few short years, the news programs would be showing us exactly what the war we fought looked like, both to the Vietnamese people and to our troops.

Now in 2014, death that our tax dollars buys and encourages is sanitized. The fact that already one million people in the Ukraine have been displaced is only mentioned by the NYT's, and then way back around page 8 or 10 or maybe page 15. And the Big Endless War in the Middle East carries that early 1930's ring of propaganda to it - that those we kill our terrorists, and who among us has any fondness for terrorists? (And who among us ever even reflect that very term is how the elite of the Third Reich labeled their dissidents, foreigners, and Jews - as terrorists!)

But in the Third Reich, the middle class was given advantages. Many Germans bought their first homes. Many Germans had two week vacations for the first time ever. The Volkswagon - "the People's Automobile" was something every German family could afford.

Few here could point to any "gifting" to the American middle class. Anyone thinking anything these days knows that the One Percent has gotten wealthier, even under this present "Democratic" Administration. We support the wars, because what else can we do? Like that famous quote from "They Thought They Were Free" - "We were not happy with those things, but what could we do? We made a fist inside our pockets."

The American people does not like the "lesser of two Evils" meme. We do not like our tax dollars always readily available for wars, with over 1 trillion spent each year on war, weaponry and surveillance. We do not like the idea of drones, whether for killing foreigners, or for delivering packages. We do not like our militarized police forces. We do not like the lack of regulations over the Big Swindlers calling themselves Bankers, or the fact that our court system is far too friendly with Banking Firms, and Big Energy Firms, and Big Pharma and the rest of it.

The headlines in every other community out there scream "Homeowner shot by police" and the story is broadcast of yet another someone killed by the community police department as the police thought the garden hose nozzle was a gun. We understand that these are not good times. It is ominous, but we content ourselves that at least we don't have troops goosestepping their way down the pavement of the streets where we live. And we try to not think about how no one needs those troops any more - that the police themselves would do the bidding. Yes, they would do the bidding of the Elite, and not two thoughts about it, especially if there was some new catastrophic event, and the call to patriotism.

Because once a nation no longer is a democracy, and once a nation is ruled by those who are thugs (though today's politicians seem pleasant enough, on the surface, and they can address a crowd in a pleasant way, even as they strip their state of clean drinking water via the newly legislated agreements permitting fracking, or give a speech that says one thing one day and a different thing three months later,) then we as a nation will have a chance to test my father's theory about how "over time, people can become barbaric."

[pnwmom]

1. Your father didn't mention the Nazi's crime of genocide. Millions of Jewish people and others

would take strong exception to your post.

[Jackpine Radical]

3. Yes, the Nazis systematically exterminated 12 million people.

In our wars in the southern hemisphere, Asia, and the Middle East since WWII, probably fewer than 6 million were directly killed, and it was not done systematically.

And of course there is the minor matter of the birth defects and other problems brought about by our use of depleted Uranium, Agent Orange & similar chemicals, Gulf War Syndrome (not just for combat troops), etc., that are still ongoing.

You're absolutely right. We are nowhere near as bad as the Nazis; to compare our current generous and liberal democracy with its equal rights for everyone and universally beloved, humane policies worldwide is a scandal.

Were it not for our magnanimous policies worldwide, countries as widely flung as Iran, Cambodia, Nicaragua and Chile would would never have known the gentle guiding hands of benevolent leaders such as the Shah, Pol Pot, Somoza, and Pinochet.

[truedelphi]

5. My father's best surviving friend in WWII

Was secretly pulled out of the castle-in-Bavaria lodgings where their platoon was sheltering after the end of WWII.

That man was an excellent photographer. Most excellent.

Anyway, when he returned from the US government's secret assignment, he approached my father to ask a special favor.

Apparently he had been taken to a nearby concentration camp and then to others not as close, to do some photography of both the survivors of the camps and the vestiges of the horrors. (The piled up bodies, the creamatoriums, etc.)

The end result of that conversation was that one of my dad's home office desks had a drawer that we kids were told we must never, ever open. The instruction to not open that desk was so severe in tone that neither of us adventurous youngsters ever defied it.

We came to find out sometime after we were all grown up and had left home, that that drawer was for those concentration camp photos. "Just in case anything happens and the US government backs away from releasing these, could you keep a copy of the photos?? Because, Fred, if they decide to hide this facet of The Third Reich, they may then also come after me." My dad hung on to that collection of photos all his life.

However, the fact remains of what I said and how I think in the post above is how I think. Don't fault my father for all the in's and out's of my thinking.

My father told many stories about his war experiences. Including how in the last few weeks of the war, his unit rushed to get to a certain location in a very timely manner. They arrived ten minutes too late - ten thousand Polish prisoners were burned alive in a large warehouse/barn complex.

It was not my father's comments about what is going on in America that related the comparison of the pleasantness of the German population's situation during the Third Reich to the current misery of the American middle class. Those comments were mine. Those comments come about because I am absolutely stunned when I talk to my older friends, and they discuss their struggles, "Food or medicine? Medicine or rent?" and of course, the on going inflation. Yet they have no problems voting for all the damn incumbents responsible for this mess we are in. (Even the incumbents who threaten Social Security?)

My father died before any of this craziness began. (Although he lived to watch the horrors of Nine Eleven but since he died the following summer, after his Ninety First Birthday, he never saw the development, by both tentacles of the Big Money Party, of that uber-State we are now surrounded by.) I am stunned by what has gone on in this country. I can only imagine my father's reaction!
And no, I doubt that should the shit hit the fan, that anything will happen to any one of the One Percent; they're not going to be the targets this time around. Regardless of their race or ethnicity, religion, color of their skin etc. If you are of that One Percent or willing to grovel to them, you will be safe.

[TexasProgresive]

8. The German privates that faught against my father were not the same as

the Waffin SS and Gestapo that imprisoned and killed the victims of the Holocaust. My father got to see the effect so the NAZI atrocities first hand by aiding in the liberation of 2 camps, but that did not make him hate the average German soldier or Germans for that matter. He said that all the soldiers were conscripts no matter which army they were in.

[truedelphi]

11. As your father explained, the German infantry often were humane, and they were often used as

PR for the German Third reich.

I was quite startled to read in Eli Wiesel's account of growing up, and how welcoming his Jewish friends and relatives felt toward the German Army. But if you think it over, it makes sense - certainly the German High Command understood that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

So in the weeks leading up to that point when the inhabitants of Sighet would be ordered onto trains and taken to camps, the newly occupying German army personnel were kind and almost affectionate in their interactions with the people.

Of course, within some weeks, those soldiers would be replaced by the SS and Gestapo, in the darkest
hours of the night. Then these new personnel would order the Jewish people to their deaths.
Here is the full account as related on the Jewish Virtual Library:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Wiesel.html
Wiesel (born September 30, 1928) was born in Sighet, a Rumanian shtetl, to an Orthodox Jewish family. His parents, Shlomo and Sarah, owned a grocery store in the village. He had two older sisters, Hilda and Bea, and a younger sister, Tsiporah. When he was three years old, Wiesel began attending a Jewish school where he learned Hebrew, Bible, and eventually Talmud. His thinking was influenced by his maternal grandfather who was a prominent Hasid. He also spent time talking with Moshe, a caretaker in his synagogue who told Wiesel about the Messiah and other mysteries of Judaism.

In 1940, the Nazis turned Sighet over to Hungary. In 1942, the Hungarian government ruled that all Jews who could not prove Hungarian citizenship would be transferred to Nazi-held Poland and murdered. The only person from Sighet who was sent to Poland and escaped was Moshe, who was at this point in time living some distance from Sighet, in a town that was affected some time before Eli's village would be affected.

After escaping death, Moshe returned to Sighet to tell his relatives there of his harrowing story. He told of deportations and murder, but the people thought he was crazy and life went on as usual. In 1942, Wiesel celebrated his bar mitzvah. He continued studying the Bible and other Jewish books, and became particularly attracted to Kabbalah, Jewish mysticism. To further this study, he learned about astrology, parapsychology, hypnotism and magic. He found a kabbalist in Sighet to teach him.

In March 1944, German soldiers occupied Sighet. They forced the Jews to wear yellow stars. The Nazis closed Jewish stores, raided their houses and created two ghettos. In May, deportations began. The Wiesel’s Christian maid, Maria, invited them to hide in her hut in the mountains, but they turned her down, preferring to stay with the Jewish community. In early June, the Wiesels were among the last Jews to be loaded into a cattle car, with eighty people in one car. Wiesel later wrote, "Life in the cattle cars was the death of my adolescence."1

To read further details of his life, after he became an inmate of Aushwitz, you can go to the link posted above.

[TexasProgresive]

12. He never said any soldiers were humane.

Put words in someone else's mouth. What he said was that soldiers at the enlisted level are pretty much the same. They were all drafted and would be shot if they did not do their "duty." Yes there were G.I. shot in the chest by their sergeants as they attempted to run from battle as well as some 2nd lieutenants in the back.

This does not excuse the atrocities of war. It is ugly and it is evil and it is something we humans do.

[truedelphi]

13. Sincere apology.

Humane was a terrible word choice.

Not sure what word to use. Benign, maybe? Just as American troops in Vietnam would be perceived, before the next units that followed came in and destroyed the village the first group of soldiers came in to save.

[Tumbulu]

2. Excellent post

and what a wise father you had.

I once did business with an older man from Germany whose father had run a prisoner of war camp for Soviet;s captured by the Third Reich during WWII. When the war ended these newly released prisoners figured out a way to help this man's family escape the Soviets and go to Western Germany. It was apparently an elaborate, long and dangerous trip.

He used to say that history is written by the victors. That they were all enslaved by the thugs, some tried harder to figure out how to be fair, others gave up and lost their humanity.

And it is true, the longer one engages in the killing of anything, the easier and more normalized it becomes. It is a human problem, not unique to any of us, none of us are immune from this risk.

Thanks, I share your worries.

[frazzled]

4. I'm afraid your father was wrong.

Adolf Hitler came to power in a federal election in 1932, where his NSDAP party (Nazis) won the greatest number of parliamentary seats. He was the party's leader, and thus rose to power ... democratically.

The Nazis won 230 seats to the Social Democratic Party won 133, the Communists 89, etc. (see results at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_July_1932 )

So when your father said "The people in Germany had lost their nation to the thugs that often get to run things when there isn't a democracy" he was dead wrong. The German people voted in the thugs. They liked them.

When you argue that the German middle class was given advantages under the Third Reich, homes and cars ... I think it is revolting. Only Aryan Germans enjoyed life under the Third Reich. If you were Jewish, gay, communist, gypsy, or sometimes Catholic (and yes, it was mostly Jews), everything was taken from you: your home, your money, your job ... and you were sent to die in a camp. Your skin was made into lampshades. Their deaths fueled the wealth of the Volkwagens of Germany.

This is the craziest post I've ever seen on DU.

[truedelphi]

6. I advise you to read "They Thought They Were Free."

The book was written by a Jewish man in the1 950's, who was studying for a higher degree at Univ of Chicago. He traveled with his family over to Germany in the 1950's, to pretend while living there that he and his family were Gentiles. He wanted to find out what really happened.


His book is an eye opener.
Read the book and then get back to me. (BTW, I am an adopted person, and am half-Jewish, so pls don't give me this shit about it.)

[truedelphi]

7. Here are some excerpts from "They Thought They Were Free"

One of "Herr" Milton Mayer's friends explains the thinking of the average person in Germany, during the early and mid-1930's:

“What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And their sense of identification with Hitler, their trust in him, made it easier to widen this gap and reassured those who would otherwise have worried about it.

SNIP

Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these ‘little measures’ that no ‘patriotic German’ could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.

“How is this to be avoided, among ordinary men, even highly educated ordinary men? Frankly, I do not know. I do not see, even now. Many, many times since it all happened I have pondered that pair of great maxims, Principiis obsta and Finem respice—‘Resist the beginnings’ and ‘Consider the end.’ But one must foresee the end in order to resist, or even see, the beginnings. One must foresee the end clearly and certainly and how is this to be done, by ordinary men or even by extraordinary men? Things might have. And everyone counts on that might."

[frazzled]

9. Pfeh./nt

[doug1105]

10. No VWs until after the war

Just a FYI.

The Volkswagen plant didn't start manufacturing cars until after the war.

The promise was that part of the worker's wages were put toward the purchase of the car like a layaway plan.

Germany started World War 2, and the plant was turned towards making wartime vehicles.