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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsEmptywheel: Zimmerman affidavit is shit.
In short, it is shit. To be honest, this affidavit, within its “four corners” arguably does not even meet the necessary burden of probable cause for Manslaughter under Florida section 782.07, much less the “depraved mind” necessary under Florida’s Second Degree Murder charge under section 782.04(2) as charged in the information. George Zimmerman may have committed a crime, but it is not demonstrated in this affidavit, and certainly is not as to the crime charged, Second Degree Murder. Charles Blow can praise this thing until the cows come home in the august pages of the New York Times, but it is still a pile of junk.
But the above discussion is all about what is in the affidavit, let’s talk about what is not in the affidavit as well. The affidavit goes out of its way to spin innocuous and perfectly legal activity into some nebulous vignette of implied criminality, yet self servingly there is not a single fleeting reference to Zimmerman’s claim of having acted in self defense. To be sure, in charging a case, a prosecutor is going to frame the facts to support her charge. But that does not mean she can blithely ignore patently exculpatory facts known to her and germane to the interests of justice. Angela Corey’s affidavit is thusly not just deficient, but dishonest in a very slimy, even if not unethical way. It is patently offensive in that regard.
The case is also patently overcharged. As stated above, I think it is more than arguable that the probable cause affidavit does not even support manslaughter, but it is not remotely close to supporting second degree murder. This is an embarrassment not only for Angela Corey, but the magistrate who signed off on this bunk. It makes the criminal justice system look horrible.
None of this is to say I think George Zimmerman is innocent of any crime for the incident that led to Trayvon Martin’s death, nor is it to say that the state may not possess sufficient evidence to convict Zimmerman of some crime at a trial. In fact, I am highly disturbed by Zimmerman’s behavior and Martin’s death. All I am saying is, is that while there may be probable cause to charge Zimmerman, it has in no way, shape or form demonstrated by the State of Florida’s official legal statement that is supposed to be the foundation for charging Zimmerman. Zimmerman should not be charged, nor sitting in a county detention, based on this document; yet there he is.
http://www.emptywheel.net/2012/04/14/zimmerman-anatomy-of-an-deficient-probable-cause-affidavit/#more-26370
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Warpy
(114,615 posts)and a short sentence to make this whole thing go away. They know a trial would be a mess and Zimmerman should know that if he sticks the state with another big show trial after the Casey Anthony fiasco, a conviction will bring a far tougher sentence for the same crime.
FarPoint
(14,765 posts)I seriously doubt this is her, Angela Corey's, first murder affidavit. I do believe it's her most important one though....I'm no lawyer so I can't offer advise...just share that I believe she did a great job Thursday.
RandySF
(84,273 posts)But then I know a lot of public figures who are great in front of the camera, but screw things up. Florida is full of them.
TheWraith
(24,331 posts)Let me put it this way. Who do you think is a better expert on the law: the veteran prosecutor who created the affidavit, and the judge who signed off on it? Or an angry and usually clueless internet blogger whose expertise is a PhD in "Comparative Literature"?
FarPoint
(14,765 posts)You make perfect sense. 
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)and bmaz is a lawyer, so Wraith's criticism makes no sense at all.
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)bmaz is not alone in his/her assessment, apparently.
Rex
(65,616 posts)mixed up. I too am confused.
elleng
(141,926 posts)
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)(1) This was written in a deficient manner to give leeway to the defense; or,
(2) The State Attorney's office has no F clue what it's doing, which wouldn't surprise me one bit given we have been watching happen from the day that the boy was shot.
waddirum
(1,005 posts)This affidavit was written by the Special Prosecutor (who was assigned after the story went global).
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)and Rick Scott is a criminal himself.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)She was elected to that office in 2008. Her appointment as special prosecutor on this case is in addition to her normal duties as State Attorney for Florida's 4th Judicial Circuit.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)That deserves it's own OP - because that's the reason Zimmerman walked the night of the shooting!
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)hedgehog
(36,286 posts)the first night. The State Attorney thought he had an upright citizen who had stopped a home invasion. There was no way he was going to take Zimmerman to trial.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)They would kiss his feet if given the chance.
GeorgeGist
(25,570 posts)you might have noticed the letterhead says otherwise. http://www.emptywheel.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Zimmerman-Probable-Cause-Document.pdf
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)tabatha
(18,795 posts)The evidence has to come out in trial.
janx
(24,128 posts)
Solomon
(12,644 posts)Some people are having a seriously hard time with the fact that Zimmerman is charged with murder based upon the facts. Can a white man be charged with murder of a black man, or must it always be manslaughter because the victim is black?
What don't you get about a boy screaming for help for thirty to forty seconds before being shot that everbody else seems to get? Oh yeah, I know, you believe its Zimmerman crying for help from the big bogeyman. Good luck with that.
Quixote1818
(31,155 posts)for people to understand? If those screams were from Trayvon which it seems to be provable it was, then the fat lady has sung for Zimmerman, end of story.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)But I disagree that it is shit, or that Zimmerman was overcharged. The affidavit does mention evidence that the 40 seconds of pleas for help were Martin's. That carries a lot of weight here because Zimmerman will have great difficulty with his self-defense justification if Martin was screaming for help for forty seconds only to be silenced by being shot. If the evidence does establish that the pleas for help were Martin's, that is a big step towards establishing killing with a depraved mind and hence second degree murder.
Response to RandySF (Original post)
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tabatha
(18,795 posts)Especially 11 and 12.
I have never heard of 15, and if that were true, there would be no prosecution of Zimmerman, because that fact would come out in discovery, it would be an embarrassment for the prosecution, and it would not even get to trial.
If you are so sure of your facts, then rest assured Zimmerman has a competent lawyer now, and he will walk.
Let, as Zimmerman's lawyer stated, this be handled properly in court of law and not a court of public opinion.
Response to tabatha (Reply #11)
Post removed
tabatha
(18,795 posts)And the video taken of Zimmerman belies those claims in the report.
And if the claims were true, is the shirt in custody? No. Why not.
Why was he not seen by a medic if he was bleeding?
Where was the blood on his shirt?
No, thanks - I'll wait for the real evidence to come out in court.
pacalo
(24,857 posts)So, we are to assume that your post #9 is strictly your perception.
Quixote1818
(31,155 posts)Their report is not worth much especially since we now know the cries for help were coming from Martin and not Zimmerman. He KILLED a kid who was pleading and crying for help for God sake. And you are cool with this?
dkf
(37,305 posts)Martin was pretty tall. I think it might be informative to know if his voice had changed due to puberty. It is curious to me that there are absolutely no recordings of his voice made or released.
Daalalou
(54 posts)Voice recognition experts have tested the screams against Zimmerman's 911 call and ruled out Zimmerman's voice. That leaves Martin as the one screaming, but they can't be completely certain until they test against his voice. I assume they're doing so, but now all evidence is being sealed. Zimmerman's voice was easy to test, because the 911 recording had already been publicly released.
Btw, being tall doesn't necessarily mean one has a deep voice. I know several tall men whose voices aren't that deep.
dkf
(37,305 posts)Wouldn't that be dandy.
Quixote1818
(31,155 posts)in other words it's based on science and peer review. So maybe it doesn't suck. Ever thought of that?
dkf
(37,305 posts)I'd rather have more data than less.
Quixote1818
(31,155 posts)
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)arguing against using reason to suggest that it might be Martin.
your bias is showing.
dkf
(37,305 posts)It's all speculation seeing as how I have insufficient data.
brush
(61,033 posts)If you believe the police report I have a bridge to sell you. That report has about as much credibility as zimmerman saying his head was "repeatedly bashed against the concrete sidewalk." The prosecutor and the lead detective on the scene who wanted to charge zimmerman know a cock and bull story when they hear one. Why do you thing the police chief and the state attorney were replaced by the special prosecutor. Anyone who has their head repeatedly, REPEATEDLY (zimmerman's own words) bashed against concrete will either be knocked cold and/or severely concussed, or KILLED outright. Concrete is incredibly hard and does not give yet zimmerman was able to, after having his head bashed, calmly walk into the station house 30 minutes later without any signs at all of being in a life and death struggle. The widely shown video revealed there was no blood on him, he was breathing effortlessly through his allegedly "broken", his clothes were not torn or even mussed, in fact, his shirt was still neatly tucked into his pants. Let's get real. The prosecutor and her investigators are no dummies. They noted these things as well as others and they're trying to get to the facts, not sweep them under the rug like the Sanford chief and state attorney who rushed to the scene and overruled the lead detective and released zimmerman. You sound intelligent and able to think clearly. Open your eyes and not be blind to the obvious. Or are you out cold from having your head repeatedly bashed against concrete. If you live in zimmerman's bizarro world said head bashing wouldn't even faze you though. Maybe that explains your gullibility in believing that police report even though it left out many significant facts, is highly suspect and is the reason why there is no confidence in the police department in Sanford.
pacalo
(24,857 posts)10. It's a dance...
...which I have seen many times:
DA or PA overcharges...well-known defense atty pleads it out = case closed and every one is happy.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=557718
Overcharges & deficient affadavit. The establishment doesn't want this to go to trial.
/edited to correct attribution from emptywheel to bmaz
BootinUp
(51,322 posts)pacalo
(24,857 posts)As bmaz said, we'll have to see how this goes during the next steps:
Quixote1818
(31,155 posts)of breaking into one of the houses and he had basically made up his mind he wasn't going to let him get away even if that meant using deadly force. I agree that if this was Zimmerman's mindset then that is second degree murder ESPECIALLY if the kid is crying for help. No doubt about it.
shimonitanegi
(114 posts)If the prosecutor can convince a jury that the screaming voice on the 911 call was Trayvon's, it will simultaneously disprove Zimmerman's version of events and john the key eyewitness's account. We will see.
Daalalou
(54 posts)I registered just to be able to respond to Mortarman. OK, point by point:
1) Although the community was gated, residents were approximately 50% minority, including Zimmerman. Relevance?
2) Zimmerman was not on patrol, but headed to the store in the rain in his vehicle. He was carrying, as he was licensed to do. So Zimmerman said. This presumes he was being truthful.
3) Zimmerman call was to a "telecommunications call taker" on the non-emergency line, not a 9-1-1 call. The call taker was still a person in an official capacity. It boggles my mind that Z defenders say he didn't have to listen to the dispatcher, yet insist that Martin should have responded to any questions that Z (a creepy stranger) posed of him.
4) Zimmerman�s observation that Martin appeared to be on drugs and was looking around at houses rather than heading straight home, as he might be expected to do in the rain, was reasonable grounds for suspicion, particularly as there had been a number of recent break-ins in the community. It was dark, it was raining, and Martin was returning to a home he was visiting in a community in which all the units look exactly alike. In addition, he was trying to duck from some guy following him. It's possible he was trying to get his bearings.
5) The point where Zimmerman first observed Martin was near the Clubhouse. OK.
6) The Clubhouse is a 1-2 minute walk from Martin�s father�s girlfriend�s unit, where Martin was staying. The scene where Martin was shot was about half way there. The "Mortarman" comes from a stint as a Forward Observer in the Infantry. It involved a lot of map reading. As an aside, what exactly comprises the "Martin Family?" Probably shorthand so they didn't have to write, "Martin's father's girlfriend".
7) The elapsed time of more than five (5) minutes between Zimmerman�s call and the time a shot was fired is consistent with Martin having doubled back to confront Zimmerman, and is more than 3x what would have been required for Martin to proceed home, even at a leisurely walking pace. Again, the Army. The Night Compass Course involved a lot of distance calculations based on pace and time. If you've looked at the map and can follow Zimmerman's narration, he left his vehicle on Twin Trees and walked east along the sidewalk to Retreat View Circle where, not being able to see Martin, he completed his call and headed back to his vehicle along that same sidewalk, which would have been about a 30 second walk. Martin approached up the long sidewalk that runs between the houses that face on Twin Trees and those, including Brandy Green's , that face on Retreat View Circle. He could have been hiding there, or could have been to Green's townhouse and come back, but probably had enough time to make that walk a number of times. If he had wanted to get away, rather than come back and confront/attack Zimmerman, he had way more than enough time to do so.
What was Zimmerman doing during that 5 minutes? We know what Trayvon was doing: talking on the phone with his girlfriend. Why hadn't Martin reached home? Maybe because he was hiding from the creepy guy following him, or maybe he was lost--see my response to #4. But we know that his call to his girlfriend ended one minute before the shot was fired, and about 30 seconds before the screams began. That's not a lot of time to double back and sneak up on someone and attack them. Not to mention that it would be hard to sneak up on someone if you're talking on the phone.
OTOH, Zimmerman had more than enough time to get back to his SUV, as he claimed he was doing. Why hadn't he arrived back there? Why did the altercation take place in a backyard in the direction of the place Martin was staying, rather than on the street near his vehicle? To me, it sounds more likely that Zimmerman was the one doing the doubling back and attacking -- he's the one who had the time, and the familiarity with the complex, to do so, and the backyard setting contradicts his story.
8) The police have publicly said that a "call taker�s suggestion is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmerman would be required to follow," and "we don't need you to do that" hardly seems like an order anyway. Mr. Zimmerman did, however, follow that suggestion, although he had every right to continue surveillance until police arrived.
I don't think Zimmerman followed the suggestion. He claims he did, but why hadn't he arrived back at his car 5 minutes later? And why did he originally agree to meet the police by the mailbox, but then changed his mind and asked the police to call him and he'd give his location? That sounds like he planned to keep tracking Martin down.
9) Martin�s �gangsta� persona, evident from his contemporaneous photographs, Tweets, and other evidence, is consistent with his having confronted and attacked Zimmerman. Without descending into dialect, a very likely challenge might be: "Are you disrespecting me?"
Um, teenage boys have been known to act stupid at times. But Martin also has RECENT photos dressed in a tux for a school prom, dressed in a football uniform, snowboarding, horseback riding, cuddling younger children (including in a pic taken 2 weeks before his death, at his mom's birthday party). He also attended aviation summer programs, and volunteered with younger kids, and was in the process of preparing to take his SATs. That's a heck of a lot of non-gangsta behavior. And he has no record of violence.
Zimmerman, OTOH, has a history in which he assaulted a cop, was engaged in domestic violence, and was fired from a job for violent behavior.
10) Martin, at 6'2" or 6'3", was more than 5" taller than Zimmerman, and in far better physical condition. You can hear Zimmerman panting on the phone call from the mere exhaustion of walking. Martin had recently finished a season of football which, the last time I played, involved a lot of wind sprints.
Zimmerman had lost weight since the 2005 mug shot that was the first media image of him. In the police video, he looks like a pretty buff guy. Moreover, he walks easily, with no appearance of being in any pain, and as more than one person has noted, exits the police vehicle unassisted despite being handcuffed. Martin was taller, yes, but he still weighed less, and given the facts I just described, it's debatable that he was in far better physical condition.
11) Water and grass stains on Zimmerman�s back are consistent with his having been on the bottom on his back during an attack by Martin, which is consistent with the observation of the witness nearest to the incident, the partial police report, and the footage from the surveillance camera at the Sanford police station. In that footage, an officer can be observed wiping his hand on his trousers after touching Zimmerman�s back.
There's enough evidence from witnesses that there was a scuffle between the two, so wetness on his back can be explained by that. That doesn't mean Martin attacked him.
12) The observation by Officer Timothy Smith in the partial police report that �Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and the back of his head� is consistent with Zimmerman�s claim that he was attacked by Martin, who punched him in the nose and banged his head a number of times on the ground/sidewalk. All the people who say "I can't see it" don't want to see it. Reports by SFD Rescue 38 who responded and gave Zimmerman first aid, will almost certainly confirm this.
They may have fought, Martin may have hit him, Zimmerman may have been on the ground at some point. But his injuries, whatever they were, were never serious and certainly weren't consistent with his head being banged on the sidewalk. Folks familiar with police and EMT procedures have outlined a number of problems with Zimmerman's account: no gloves used by the cops, no bandages, no blood on his clothing, no cervical collar given to him, no X-rays or CAT scans taken to rule out concussions or other serious head injuries, the ease at which he walks not suggestive of being in pain or disoriented.
13) The claim by Martin�s mother that it was he who was yelling for help is not substantiated by any scientific analysis, or comparison with any recording of Martin�s voice. Nor have any of Martin�s family or friends stated whether Martin�s normal tone of voice was high as many have assumed, believing that he was a young boy, or deep, which would be consistent with recent pictures which show him as a grown man. Such recordings are undoubtedly available from service providers on Martin�s recent calls and voice messages to friends, which will be made available during the course of discovery.
The voice analysis completely ruled out Zimmerman--only a 48% match (any two people will match in some respect, and here they were both relatively young males from the same general region of the country). Meanwhile, the experts say that you expect at least better than 60% match, with a better than 90% match to be certain. So they know it wasn't Zimmerman screaming. That leaves one person: Trayvon. I assume that they are trying to get a sample of his voice for comparison.
14) In the partial police report Officer Timothy Smith observed that he personally heard Zimmerman state: �I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me.� Those audio "experts" who claim that they have compared those screams to Zimmerman's voice on the earlier call and concluded that they're not the same said nothing about how stress affects voice tone. Sanford police apparently used stress analysis during their questioning of Zimmerman. If that stress affects voice tone, how does having somebody beating the s**t out of you and thinking he's trying to kill you?
And you don't think stress would have the same effect on Martin?
15) It has been reported that the witness who lives nearest the scene, and was outside within 10-20 feet of the two, and observed Martin on top beating Zimmerman, has stated that it was Zimmerman calling for help.
Several witnesses contradict this one.
16) Zimmerman was arrested and taken to the Sanford police headquarters, but released after the Prosecutor�s office determined on the basis of observations by police and statements taken by them that there was no basis for charging Zimmerman.
I don't know the reason the prosecutor came to that decision. I hope that will come out at the trial.
16) Zimmerman�s father has no connection with law enforcement in Florida.
So he says. Since the stories told by Zimmerman's father and brother keep changing, I doubt their truthfulness.
17) �Profiling,� in merely concluding that the characteristics of a person under observation are consistent with those of a class of persons who have been found to have committed certain crimes, is not itself a crime. Profiling is a technique regularly used by law enforcement.
Zimmerman wasn't law enforcement. That's the problem.
uppityperson
(116,020 posts)
MrScorpio
(73,772 posts)Thanks for that great reply
gkhouston
(21,642 posts)Rather, she's saying they did a half-assed (maybe even quarter-assed) job on the affidavit. Maybe standards are low in Florida, but the supporting detail for the charges isn't there. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, it just wasn't provided. The prosecution needs to step up their game.
btw, welcome to DU and nice rebuttal to the erstwhile Mortarman.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Apparently her expert forgot to watch the court proceedings and missed the PC determination.
janx
(24,128 posts)RtdLaw on April 15, 2012 at 12:41 am said:
I’d point out that the judge has already ruled that the probable cause affidavit is sufficient, without objection from the defense counsel. You can hear the ruling about one minute into the video at
Under Florida procedure, the sole purpose of the probable cause affidavit is to support the arrest; it has no other bearing on the case. The affidavit in this case was probably more detailed than usual — a very bare bones recitation of the basis for the arrest would ordinarily suffice. The only showing that needs to be made is one of “reasonable suspicion” — that is, that there are fact that provide a reason to suspect that Zimmerman may be guilty of second degree murder — not proof beyond a reasonable doubt or even preponderance of evidence.
The presence of unsupported statements or opinions within the affidavit does not undermine the affidavit itself — the question would be whether, if you disregard all of that and only consider those statements of fact that are supported, is that enough to establish probable cause?
For 2nd degree murder under Florida law, that means they need to show:
1) A victim is dead;
2) The death was caused by the act of the defendant;
3) The victim was killed by an act imminently dangerous to another and demonstrating a depraved mind without regard for human life.
Zimmerman’s admission that he shot Martin, coupled with the statements to the dispatcher using the “assholes” and “punk” statements seem to be enough to establish probable cause for the arrest. I think that some people mistakenly believe that there must be a showing of pre-existing intent to kill, but that an element of 1st degree murder, not 2nd. Obviously the prosecution bears a heavier burden at trial, but they aren’t there yet.
As far as I can tell, under Florida procedure, the probable cause affidavit is not relevant to any further proceedings. It’s just part of the paperwork filed to start the case.
Quixote1818
(31,155 posts)gkhouston
(21,642 posts)Perhaps what's expected to be spelled out in affidavits varies from location to location.
dkf
(37,305 posts)The video that had been released was stretched sideways making Zimmerman look wider and "buffer" than the actual video. One station I watched had a comparison of what was shown vs the actual video.
Daalalou:
Since you obviously spent a good deal of time offering your opinions on the Angela Corey affidavit, I felt it incumbent to do the same. Let's be clear about one point: the affidavit in Zimmerman's case is used not just for the probable cause of the arrest but also the justification for ther specific charge. While I cannot dispute the validity of many of your comments that affect the arrest of Zimmerman, I believe most of your comments relating to the 2nd degree murder charge are irrelevant.
Let's review your scenario. Martin may have been walking normally, minding his business, trying to hide from a suspicious stranger and might have acted in a manner any teenager would. No argument all all from me. It is all completely irrelevant to probable cause to charge Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder.
#2, #3,#4,#5, #6
Completely irrelevant for probable cause to charge Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder.
#7. The place where the shooting took place was in a back yard.
Unfortunatly, no details of how or when Martin and Zimmerman arrived at that location.
Completely irrelevant for probable cause to charge Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder.
#8. Zimmerman changed his route to follow Martin
Completely irrelevant for probable cause to charge Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder.
#9. Zimmerman had a past history of violence while Martin had none. This ignores past service of Zimmerman in community service. In any case...
Completely irrelevant for probable cause to charge Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder.
#10 Physical condition of Martin and Zimmerman almost equal.
Completely irrelevant for probable cause to charge Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder.
#11. "There's enough evidence from witnesses that there was a scuffle between the two, so wetness on his back can be explained by that. That doesn't mean Martin attacked him."
Correct. It also doesn't mean that Zimmerman attacked Martin.
No probable cause to charge Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder.
#12 But his injuries, whatever they were, were never serious and certainly weren't consistent with his head being banged on the sidewalk.
That is strictly conjecture on your part since both the police report and the SFD reports that Zimmerman's injuries were treated. Shocks to the head can cause induce serious injury whether they result in lacerations to the scalp or not. Patients with head injuries can exhibit normal behavior before showing signs of distress. The fact that no mention was made of these injuries by the special prosecutor which were recorded and physically observable was reprehensible. They, more than anything else, support the account of self defense. Your attempt to gloss over this evidence is disturbing.
#13 Voice will confirm it was Martin crying for help.
Unless the cell phone was using some unheard of future technology, data maps of the voices will be filled with noise and distortion. That's why the experts use probability to define their results. Martin's mother would not be a credible witness any more than Zimmerman's father would be. To put Martin's mother opinion in the affidavit and ignore the father's testimony (along with an eye witness) was again reprehensible on the part of Angela Corey. I might note here that Zimmerman was armed and had no apparent need to cry for help unless he was getting injured.
#14. "And you don't think stress would have the same effect on Martin?" Yes, however....
No probable cause to charge Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder.
#15. "Several witnesses contradict this one."
No mention was made in the affidavit of any witnesses. Again, reprehensible. You seem unaware of the statement of the witness supporting Zimmerman's account but are sure that other witnesses contradict it. Are you clairvoyant?
#16. You question the truthfulness of Zimmerman's father.
Once again...
No probable cause to charge Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder.
#17. Zimmerman wasn't law enforcement. That's the problem.
Profiling is not a legal term. It is an inflammatory term used when trying to undermine factual descriptions.
No probable cause to charge Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder.
There is a further item which you did not address. Under Florida law, for a 2nd degree murder charge the state must show that the defendant had a "depraved mind".
George Zimmerman called police twice to inform them of a suspicious person in the neighborhood. Evidence shows this was his SOP for many previous watches. If people can be shown to have a depraved mind after calling the police twice for assistance, then we are all in trouble.
You are beating a dead horse attempting to justify the 2nd degree murder charge based on the incompetent affidavit submitted by Angela Corey.
Quixote1818
(31,155 posts)and he had made up his mind that he wasn't going to let him get away even if it meant using deadly force. If this was Zimmerman's mindset then that IS 2nd degree murder especially since we now know with a 98% probability it was not Zimmerman crying for help. Cory gives motive by using Zimmerman's own words where he is saying Martin "looks guilty" and "These ass holes always get away" then his actions of following Martin clearly show he was determined not to let the "crook" get away. Of course Martin's cries for help clearly show Zimmerman had no regard for human life when the shots were fired and we understand why based on everything Cory laid out. The cries for help combined with Zimmerman's mindset that he wasn't going to let "the ass hole get away" are what make it clear that it is 2nd degree murder.
OneGrassRoot
(23,953 posts)and for speaking up.
Welcome.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)I think it only needs to provide enough evidence to warrant the arrest which it did.
af·fi·da·vit (f-dvt)
n.
A written declaration made under oath before a notary public or other authorized officer.
[Medieval Latin affdvit, from third person sing. past tense of Latin affdre, to pledge; see affiance.]
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/affidavit
It's ironic that people brandishing Ph.D.s are attempting to analyze the heck out of a document without bothering to look up the definition first.
Response to janx (Reply #43)
Post removed
Quixote1818
(31,155 posts)At the end it says: "The facts mentioned in this Affidavit are not a complete recitation of all the pertinent facts and evidence in this case but only are presented for determination of Probable Cause for Second Degree Murder."
DCBob
(24,689 posts)I didnt see that part. Thanks.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)in Florida. Pathetic.
DemocratSinceBirth
(101,852 posts)And if it was deficient why hasn't Mark O'Mara filed a habeas corpus petition with the court.
It's legal malpractice if he doesn't.
janx
(24,128 posts)
H2O Man
(79,051 posts)GeorgeGist
(25,570 posts)but this one seems rather 'fact free'.
BTW I thought Angela Corey was enjoying her moment of fame a tad much ... red hot dress, crucifix in the cleavage?
Quixote1818
(31,155 posts)It says the following at the end of the Affidavit:
"The facts mentioned in this Affidavit are not a complete recitation of all the pertinent facts and evidence in this case but only are presented for determination of Probable Cause for Second Degree Murder."
DemocratSinceBirth
(101,852 posts).
DemocratSinceBirth
(101,852 posts)First they said he would never be arrested. Now they are saying he will never be convicted. After he is convicted they will be saying he will never be given a long sentence.
I lived two miles or so from where the incident happened from 1998 -2011. I have lived within fifty miles of Twin Lakes nearly all my life. That area is in my DNA. I know some of the actors in this tragedy but not Mr. Zimmerman. If anybody else would have been in George Zimmerman's shoes that evening they would have certainly been charged with a capitol offense, the Stand Your Ground law notwithstanding.
I don't think George Zimmerman was some latter day Joseph Paul Franklin but he did harbor suspicion of young black males. This suspicion and his penchant for guns and psuedo-police work cost Trayvon Martin his life and him his liberty.
The ironic thing is if Norm Wolfinger, the State Attorney for the Eighteenth Judicial Circuit Court Of Florida. embraced the recommendation of the lead investigator on the case that Zimmerman be charged with a capitol offense this issue would never have been racialized.
Lots of elements in this case; profiling, another moron with a gun, shoddy police work, and subtle racism.
NoGOPZone
(2,971 posts)and the judge at Zimmerman's hearing did not dismiss the charges.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/295942/three-legal-keys-trayvon-martin-affidavit-david-french
Tommy_Carcetti
(44,498 posts)While the ultimate burden of proof is on the prosecution, if the Defendant wishes the jury to consider the affirmative defense of self-defense, that is the job of the Defendant, not the prosecution. So it isn't necessarily surprising that the charging affidavit doesn't make note of Zimmerman's supposed defense.
In other words, let the case play out. As someone who knows, pleading documents are not evidence in and of themselves.