Here we go again-St Louis policeman kills 18-year-old, reviving Ferguson tensions

[malaise]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/09/st-louis-police-shoot-18-year-old-reviving-tensions-over-ferguson
<snip>
A St Louis city policeman shot and killed a young male suspect on Wednesday, authorities said, bringing new tension as protests continue over the fatal police shooting of an unarmed black teenager in August.

Some accounts of the case said the young man, named locally as Vonderrick Myers Jr, 18, had only been carrying a sandwich. Teyonna Myers, 23, of Florissant, said Myers was her cousin. “He was unarmed,” she told the St Louis Post-Dispatch. “He had a sandwich in his hand, and they thought it was a gun. It’s like Michael Brown all over again.”

Police spokeswoman Leah Freeman told CNN said the officer had been off-duty and working an approved second job when he attempted to stop Myers for a “pedestrian check”. He had been wearing his police uniform.

---------------------
It's open season on African Americans

[DontTreadOnMe]

1. “pedestrian check” = black person is guilty of something

I have had enough! Cops are killing kids!

[CincyDem]

14. No No...you have it all wrong

It's quite possible that this kid was a serial PWB*. This is an insidious crime that just has to stop and swift street justice is the only way to get through to hardened offenders. PWB is an "gateway crime". Often, a serial PWB offender will move up the ladder of criminality to such heinous cultural crimes like RWB (aka JWB), CYB, DWB, GSWB and finally moving up to what we can't tolerate in this culture - SWB.

It has to stop somewhere and Missouri is just the place to start.

* PWB: being Pedestrian while Black.
RWB: Running while Black
JYB: Jogging while Black
CYB: Cycling while Black
GSWB: Going (to) School while Black
SWB: Succeeding while Black.



Honestly - WTF is wrong with these guys. At some point, shooting these kids in cold f'ing blood on the street has got to stop.

[Lochloosa]

19. You left out the notorious WHWB...

Wearing Hoodie While Black.

A crime so hideous that citizens may shoot them on sight.

[Sherman A1]

2. Police officer fatally shoots teenager in south St. Louis

St. Louis Police Chief Sam Dotson said the officer was patrolling the neighborhood for a private firm at the time of the shooting. He confirmed that the victim was 18 years old.

Dotson said the officer was in a car when he saw three males and one of them started to run away but stopped. The officer did a U-turn and then all three ran. He drove through streets following them and then chased them on foot. He then got into a physical confrontation with one that escalated into gunfire.

The teenager had a gun and fired at least three shots at the officer, who returned fire, the chief said. The teenager attempted to fire more but his gun jammed, Dotson said.

The officer fired 17 times, he said. It is unclear how many times the teenager was shot.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/police-officer-fatally-shoots-teenager-in-south-st-louis/article_2d5a8c2a-97db-5cec-a477-1130d7d26f7e.html

Bold print added by me.

[seveneyes]

6. Case of the missing Taser

“My nephew was coming out of a store from purchasing a sandwich. Security was supposedly searching for someone else. They Tased him,” Williams said. “I don’t know how this happened, but they went off and shot him 16 times. That’s outright murder.”

A police spokeswoman said the officer did not have a Taser.

[marym625]

15. cop says he tased him

Assholes can't even get their stories straight. Cop first said that after chasing him, he jumped out of the bushes at him. That's changed too.

[pintobean]

22. Where did you see that

the cop said he tased him?

[marym625]

29. I'm looking

Not gonna lie, having a hard time finding it. When I read it there was almost nothing out about it. Now there are hundreds of articles.

I know it said that the cop said he tased Myers and then Myers fired 3 shots until his gun jammed but he kept pulling the trigger.

Until I find it again, I won't repeat it again. But that was what I first read.

[pintobean]

34. I'm local* and have been following the story locally.

Your claim is the only one I've seen anywhere.

*This one's pretty close to home.

[marym625]

43. I'm not making it up

Obviously, that would only do harm. But as I said, I won't repeat again until I find it. Pissing me off I can't. Even stories from 8 hours ago are updated and changed so I am weeding through.

I am also trying to find a hotel room for the weekend to join protests. Nothing around for miles.

[pintobean]

46. Cardinals Nation and the press are flooding St. Louis.

The NLCS starts here Saturday.

[NYC_SKP]

50. One story says a 9mm Ruger was recovered.

Did you catch that part?

There's a lot of stinky stuff to this story, like the Mike Brown case, but I try to keep an open mind.

And WTF with cops wearing uniforms while moonlighting?

Apparently, that's allowed.

[marym625]

63. OH!

I was hoping it was the protests.

I still can't find that one story but there are many different stories from the cops. Sometimes the victim turned and shot at the cop, sometimes there was hand to hand combat, sometimes the victim jumped from the bushes, etc etc. Too many inconsistencies.

[davekriss]

48. I heard that last night too

That he was tazed. Iirc it was a verbal report on Argus News live stream. However only heard it there and nowhere else.

[pintobean]

51. Did that report say

that the cop said he tased Myers, or that people were saying it? As far as I know, the cop didn't give any interviews. They don't do that. SLMPD never said that.

[davekriss]

54. It was an emotional report

By a passerby while the cameraman walked. It was late, so I am not absolutely sure, but People were saying during the streaming live coverage that the kid was shot 16 times walking up the stairs to his apartment. I heard one person prefix that with, "he was tazed".

I offer this not because that 1 person proves it true, but only to let the other poster know that she isn't crazy, at least one person said same last night and it was caught on a livestream as events were unfolding.

[marym625]

58. Maybe that's why I can't find it

Maybe I heard it. I thought I read it. I KNOW he first said that. Not just the family.

Thank you. Didn't even occur to me I might have heard it. Still going to keep looking though.

Thanks again

[pintobean]

94. So, you're going to leave it

even though you're the only one who says it happened, and you can't back it up.

[marym625]

107. I am not the only one.

And as I said, I will continue to look.

[Scuba]

7. The comments section does NOT speak well for the citizens of St. Louis.

[marym625]

30. comment section of what?

[Scuba]

44. ...

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/police-officer-fatally-shoots-teenager-in-south-st-louis/article_2d5a8c2a-97db-5cec-a477-1130d7d26f7e.html


Link provided by poster above.

[marym625]

56. Sorry missed the link

thanks for the link.

Jesus christ on a cheese sandwich. WTF is wrong with people?

I truly don't care what someone believes, how come life is no longer sacred? Makes me physically ill.

[1StrongBlackMan]

64. I just scanned a couple dozen of the comments ...

Are you speaking of the comments of the outraged (likely Black) commenters, or the comments of the "He had a gun (despite the witness comments that it was a sandwich) ... Let's wait for all the facts" (likely white) commenters?

That asked, I really don't see much difference in them from comments that appeared after Michael Brown ... or John Crawford ... or Eric Garner ... or Ezell Ford ... or Trayvon Martin ...

[Scuba]

72. Lots of new comments since I posted, but here's some samples of the type that prompted me ...

All this going on is a direct result of the insane liberalism infesting this country. The "blacks" feel enabled by this so called "president" to do anything they want, from welfare/ebt fraud to shooting at police and feel that they are perfectly within their rights. The left has elevated them to a protected specie status,and when the are put down for their criminal acts the liberals encourage their rioting. The head thug in our White House is the catalyst and will continue to be untill 2016 when sanity can be restored with a decent republican president.

Hey Toshayyyyyyyyy, wake up! Young blacks are making a mockery of the black race. These feces think they can make up their own rules on the streets. .40 caliber says otherwise!

slowly but surely clearing the streets, one thug at a time

Im betting its a gang member who thought he was invinceable! Stop blaming the police for the behavior of thugs!

This thug was a member of a gang, had a stolen gun, has a felony record at 18 and he was nothing. He will not breed more of the same by baby mamas for taxpayers to fund and this officer has saved many future victims.

[1StrongBlackMan]

73. Okay ...

IOWs, comments from outside the Black community (and every other community that can be considered half way sane).

[marble falls]

10. Witnesses say otherwise.

Relatives of the teen who came to the scene said the victim had been unarmed. They identified him as Vonderrit Myers Jr., 18.

Teyonna Myers, 23, of Florissant, said Myers was her cousin.

“He was unarmed,” Teyonna Myers said. “He had a sandwich in his hand, and they thought it was a gun. It’s like Michael Brown all over again.”

Bold print added by me, from your linked story.

[Sherman A1]

13. They may be correct

or they may not be.

We will see after more information comes forward.

[marym625]

16. You waiting for the final version from the cops?

Until they pick which of the stories they've already put out they keep as their final version? Or somehow combine the ones that contradict each other?

Or perhaps believe the eyewitness accounts that matched from the start?

[Sherman A1]

42. I have found that early press reports

are not always accurate, hence I am waiting until more information becomes available before drawing any conclusions myself.

The officer may have been justified, he may not have been. I don't know I wasn't there, but I would like to understand more and not form an opinion on what may very well be partial or inaccurate information.

[giftedgirl77]

60. Yes, it's always best to wait until the cop has had

plenty of time to get his story nice & straight before taking the word of eyewitnesses. Hell they'll have their "independent" investigation all wrapped up without ever speaking to those pesky witnesses.

Try living as a minority in this country for a week. I can't count how many times I've had guns drawn on me bc my window tint was too dark.

[Sherman A1]

62. So,

then we should rush to pass judgement on the basis the media reports of eye witness information (which is often unreliable)?

[1StrongBlackMan]

66. A final version ...

that seems to be "evolving" by the minute.

Again ...

"If a tree falls in the forest and there is no white person (police/establishment figure) to vouch for what happened, did the tree really fall?"

[bravenak]

77. We need to wait for all the facts to come in on that tree falling thing.

I mean, it's on the ground, and it's dead, but, maybe it charged the ground and the ground shot it in self defense.

[marym625]

85. ONLY IF

there are no white people in power. (mentally ill white people, poor white people and white drug suspects, don't count)

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/07/justice/north-carolina-teen-killed/

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58472404-78/taylor-cruz-hands-gill.html.csp

then there's the white woman in Colorado (I think) that was unarmed and killed by cops almost the same time as Michael Brown.

There's more. Absolutely NO DOUBT that young black men are the main target of cops. But white and mentally ill or poor is their substitute when a black man isn't near by and they have an itchy trigger finger.

My point is not to try and deter from the reality of the racists killings. It is just to emphasis the military "us against them" mentality of the cops.

[cstanleytech]

24. Witness testimony though is known to be unreliable.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/understand/Eyewitness-Misidentification.php

Thats why there needs to be strong physical evidence to support a case rather than a mob like mentality one like over here on this thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025641231 which as you can see there were a number of people who were fanning or trying to fan the flames right off from the start.

[Lars39]

26. Yeah, hosing off the crime scene is immensely preservative.

[cstanleytech]

32. Why shouldnt they clean it?

I mean really what purpose do you think it serves to leave it if they had already taken what photos of the scene they needed and had collected what samples they need?

[Lars39]

35. But had they already photographed and collected all they needed?

Or did washing the blood and gore away happen first?

[cstanleytech]

37. Why, do you have something that shows that they washed it away before they had what they needed?

[Lars39]

38. And may I ask the same?

[cstanleytech]

47. Well I would say no since standard practice is they collect what they need before they clean

up a scene so I should request you to show that they failed to follow the standard procedure.
But lets assume for the sake of argument they didnt follow standard procedure and collect all the evidence (which I find difficult to believe they didnt as the last I heard was that they collected a gun and some shells which implies they did collect evidence) , surely the witnesses took some photos and or video not to mention the press probably showed up and took either photos or video.
So again we come back to why shouldnt the fire department follow its own standard procedure and cleaning up afterwards?

[Lars39]

49. That police department has shown that they don't adhere to standard procedures

by keeping a dead body in the sun for 5 hours or more.

[cstanleytech]

52. So are you saying they should have removed the body before collecting the evidence?

[Lars39]

53. <snort>

Life's short and I've got some living to go do.

[cstanleytech]

55. Good luck. nt

[yesiwasacop]

57. Yea that is suspicious

how in the world could they be done investigating already? Doesnt it take at least four hours of the body laying there before they would be done?

Just like in Ferguson.

[malaise]

28. What about police testimony?

What's reliable about that

[cstanleytech]

33. Its not anymore reliable which again is why you need physical evidence rather than just the sworn

statement of an officer.

[1StrongBlackMan]

67. True ...

but so have police statements ... especially those that "evolve" over the course of minutes, hours, days, weeks, ...

[BronxBoy]

106. Especially Black witness testimony.....

don't forget that part. ...Because in our community we never do.

[Brigid]

39. You mean to tell me . . .

That these cops can't tell the difference between a gun and a sandwich?

[pintobean]

41. Sandwiches don't fire 9mm rounds.

[1StrongBlackMan]

68. Aren't you just accepting (despite what witnesses(?) have commented) ...

that there was a gun, that was fired, by the guy that got shot?

This wouldn't be the first instance of a weapon "being recovered" at the scene. And I suspect, after the MB, the prevailing thought among police is, "this would have gone so much smoother, if MB had had a gun ... Hey?!? "

[MurrayDelph]

78. Not even torpedos?

[Travelman]

92. She's not a witness

She wasn't there. Read it again.

Relatives of the dead teen who came to the scene identified him as Vonderrit Myers Jr., 18. They disputed the police version. They say he didn't have a weapon.

Teyonna Myers, 23, of Florissant, said Myers was her cousin.

“He was unarmed,” Teyonna Myers said. “He had a sandwich in his hand, and they thought it was a gun. It’s like Michael Brown all over again.”

She didn't see anything. She wasn't there when it happened. She came along later.

She just declared that it must have been a sandwich and not a gun, even though the police recovered not only the gun but also the rounds that he fired from that "sandwich."

I know Jersey Mike's makes a killer roast beef sandwich, but that's a bit much. This guy thought he'd kill a cop rather than be caught out violating his terms of release. He lost his bet.

[840high]

23. Was a gun found?

[pintobean]

25. Yes

The teenager had a gun and fired at least three shots at the officer, who returned fire, the chief said. The teenager attempted to fire more but his gun jammed, Dotson said.

The officer fired 17 times, he said. It is unclear how many times the teenager was struck.

Police said they recovered a 9mm Ruger.

Dotson did not identify the 18-year-old but said he "was no stranger to law enforcement."

He also said the projectiles were recovered.

[scarystuffyo]

76. Doesn't that sound a little suspect to you?

They claim the man was running and turned around and fired 3 rounds that missed

And they already recovered the 3 rounds? Unless the cop was standing with walls behind him a 9mm
round can travel several hundred yards if fired near ground level .

[pintobean]

80. How long should it take?

I'm no expert (no clue, actually), but it sure sounds plausible. Two were found in front of where the cop was, and one behind. If you want to call Dotson a liar, go ahead. I won't.

[scarystuffyo]

83. Are you saying shell casings or the bullets were recovered ?

"He also said the projectiles were recovered."

[pintobean]

87. I don't remember his exact wording

but it was clear to me he meant bullets.

[scarystuffyo]

88. If he said projectiles were recovered.

Then he meant bullets

I find that just a little suspect unless the cop was standing in front of a wall

Tracking those down would take a lot of time. They could have went anywhere.

Is there a picture anywhere of the place where they say he fired at the officer?

[pintobean]

90. Here's his remarks.

Starts at 1:52 of the video.
http://fox2now.com/2014/10/09/officer-involved-shooting-sparks-protests-in-south-st-louis/

[scarystuffyo]

93. Okay I just watched it

He meant the bullets , he said the suspect was shooting down hill at the officer and the
projectiles were recovered in front of the officer with some ballistic evidence recovered behind the officer.

That is plausible if the person fired at the officer down a hill where the bullets impacted the street or side walk
in front of the officer. They wouldn't be able to find the entire bullet but there would be fresh impact marks with traces
of lead and copper in the holes.

[Cali_Democrat]

95. With all the high profile stories of police brutality

many people aren't going to believe the cops.

Even if the cops are telling the truth, many folks in the St. Louis community will not believe a word of it.

It's a sad state of affairs and the cops have nobody to blame but themselves.

Relations are poisoned for the foreseeable future.

[scarystuffyo]

97. As cops become more and more militaristic it won't be just the St. Louis community

Something has drastically changed in policing methods in the last 20 or so years

[Gore1FL]

116. I have to wonder if things have changed or if more people simple have cameras.

I suspect I have simply been unaware of systematic problems that did not affect me. Cameras me aware of the unfair and questionable behaviors by those abusing their power.

[seveneyes]

3. "He had a sandwich in his hand, and they thought it was a gun"

Maybe it was a Pop-Tart chewed into the shape of a gun? That can get one in big trouble, based on past instances.

[Bonx]

65. "the man fired three rounds at the officer before his weapon jammed"

pretty dangerous sandwich.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/man-dead-after-officer-involved-shooting-in-south-st-louis/

[onethatcares]

4. when I was growing up

I was taught that only governments that were afraid of their people stopped and searched them all the time for no reasons.

Those same governments had laws to prevent protests and had secret prisons to ship dissidents to.

My how things have changed.

[Sparhawk60]

5. The chief said he is unaware of any video that captured the shooting

I am sure the cops are praying no video does show up. Sadly, I am so cynical at this point, I don't think a video showing the young man on his knees with his hands up would make much of a difference. The cop MAY get a unpaid suspension...at most.

[Adrahil]

20. I'm kinda with you....

...I wanna believe that all (or at least most) cops have good intentions, but the pesky facts keep popping up and getting in the way.

It's terrible to think I actually hope the shooting was justified so it will stop this slide.... but I have a deep feeling it wasn't.

[exboyfil]

27. Handcuffed on your stomach gets you two years

See Oscar Grant.

So you are probably right.

[valerief]

8. Who is responsible for putting dangerous weapons into the hands of these psychotics we

Orwellianly call "peace" officers?

[blackspade]

9. Another bullshit stop.

And not even on duty....

[beemer27]

11. Another one.

Obviously some one is lying. The two stories are WAY too far apart to leave any other conclusion. This is another one where it will be better for more witnesses to come forward and whatever video surveillance tapes there are to be analysed before making an opinion. One of the Main problems here is the practice, that is common everywhere, of allowing sworn officers to work for private firms while wearing their issued uniforms, and covered by the color of law that comes with the badge. This is a clear abuse of the system, and provides liability coverage for the firms hiring the officers. The badge, and the power and immunity that come with it, are the peoples, not the individual officers. Yet many officers rent out that authority and protection to private businesses. This practice must be stopped or curtailed in some manner.

[Jefferson23]

12. K&R

[Adrahil]

18. WTF is a "Pedestrian Check?" Walking while Black? NT

[City Lights]

21. Was just going to ask the same thing.

[malaise]

31. It applies to all those Living while Black (LWB)

driving, riding, walking, or sitting in a chair at home or even sleeping in bed.
But remember this is post-racial America.

[Feral Child]

40. "Stop-And-Frisk"

"Pedestrian Check" is current police jargon to white-wash profiling.

[1StrongBlackMan]

69. That seems to be a practice ...

extending to off-duty police officers, working as security guards? What could go wrong?

[Feral Child]

101. I think they're about to find out in St. Louis

The abscess seems to be coming to a head.

The murder has to stop, 1SBM.

[cstanleytech]

59. Aye I was wondering the same so checked google and came across this

http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/412647-Key-Issues-in-the-Police-Use-of-Pedestrian-Stops-and-Searches.pdf

[1StrongBlackMan]

71. Does that apply to off-duty police officers, working as security guards? eom.

[cstanleytech]

79. Not 100% sure but I think it just might. I know about a week or two ago I read

somewhere (might have been on the DU) that some idiot in a truck did that rolling smoke thing to a bunch of guys on some bikes and one of the guys who was on one of the bikes happened to be an offduty police officer and needless to say the guy in the truck got in deep shit over it.

[ieoeja]

61. A concealed firearm often gives a specific bulge.

Police would routinely stop people who appeared to have a concealed weapon. It was a major tool for law enforcement fighting street crime.

Of course, concealed carry is now legal. Which means officers now have no business stopping people who appear to have concealed weapons.

[1StrongBlackMan]

70. Okay ...

Police would routinely stop people who appeared to have a concealed weapon. It was a major tool for law enforcement fighting street crime.

What about off-duty police officers, working as security guards?

[scarystuffyo]

74. Yeah but if he did have a gun this was at night

How would the cop see a bulge. This was a fishing expedition by the cop and that ended up taking a life

[cstanleytech]

81. Umm streetlights? Car lights? Lights from a store? Lights from a billboard?

[pintobean]

86. We have street lights.

On the streets and in the alleys. Plus porch and business lights.
Not that I'm supporting the bulge theory; it's just pretty light on the streets of St. Louis at night.

[scarystuffyo]

89. It's a fishing expedtion

[Rex]

36. Someone is lying, based on the past I would have to say it is the PD.

Since they don't seem to respect the laws they supposedly enforce. Shot 17 times while holding a sandwich...WTF!

[WillyT]

45. K & R !!!

[FLPanhandle]

75. If they recovered a gun, I'll go with the police on this one.

It's possible the police officer planted evidence, but simple testing would show if that gun had been fired recently or not.

Sometimes there are justified reasons for the police to use their guns. This looks on the surface as one of those.

[dilby]

82. I won't, committed no crime and was being chased by someone not in a police car.

This kid could not tell who was behind the wheel of some random car that was coming after him. If he was armed I would say it was self defense, there was no crime committed and no reason for some random stranger to start driving after them in a strange car.

[brooklynite]

96. ...but was facing an unrelated gun charge, per the St. Louis Post-Dispatch

[dilby]

98. Which rent a cop had no idea about.

Rent a cop had no business harassing him or coming after and attacking him. It's self defense and he died in self defense. If someone attacks a person and that person then shoots in self defense, which results in the attacker shooting back and killing the person it's murder.

[scarystuffyo]

99. Do you have the link to that?

[brooklynite]

100. Here

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/off-duty-st-louis-officer-fatally-shoots-teen-who-fired/article_2d5a8c2a-97db-5cec-a477-1130d7d26f7e.html

[scarystuffyo]

102. thanks

[FLPanhandle]

103. They were both on foot and the officer was in uniform.

It appears he fired at an officer in uniform while fleeing. There are plenty of cases of police using their guns inappropriately to spend time getting upset at the times where it appears to be appropriate.

[dilby]

108. Can you tell if someone is in uniform at night with your back to them?

We know it was not a cop car the officer was in, we know the kid was running so back was turned, we know it was night. If someone chases me in a car, then by foot I am not looking behind me to see if they are in uniform.

[uponit7771]

112. No one has eyes in tghe back of their head, the leos in that are don't deserve the benefit of the ..

... doubt either

[uponit7771]

111. AMEN AND AMEN!!! Same thing happened to me as a teenager!!! No sign of LEO and chases

... us screaming at us

[scarystuffyo]

91. At this point I would want more proof than just a weapon recovered being recently discharged

[Baitball Blogger]

84. It's time to throw out all the police manuals and start all over again.

[jwirr]

104. My God, my developmentally disabled daughter has more common sense than the entire Ferguson,

MO police department. What is wrong with these people? This is not the way it is supposed to be. First off, he wears his uniform on a second job? Then he harasses another person who's only crime seems to be walking while black? He feels threatened by a sandwich in someone's hand? Once again he is chasing small "crimes" that do not really matter instead of doing the real job he was hired for. Don't they have any real crimes in Ferguson MO?

They have to get out the vote and yet I read that there are only about 127 people have registered to vote so far. What is going on with this vote thing? Where is our federal government? Something needs to be done to stop this racist police department and all those who oversee it.

[pintobean]

105. You might want to check your facts.

Just sayin'

[jwirr]

109. So I see. But why do they always shoot to kill? When I was in college we talked about police who

were beginning to act as police, jury and judge. All this killing is not right because that is just exactly what they are doing. My question is Did he have to kill him? What about shooting him in the leg? He was again unarmed.

I live in an area that is racially mixed and we do not see this kind of behavior from our police. Life matters around here - no matter what race you are. We believe in the rule of law - the entire rule of law - enforcement, juries and judges.

[Travelman]

114. Because this is reality and not Hollywood.

There is no such thing as "shooting to wound." That's TV cop drama and Hollywood BS.

Go talk to any cop out there. Every single one of them, from the lowliest adjunct deputy of Mayberry right up to the highest-ranking FBI agent will tell you that once you start firing, you shoot to kill. No ifs, ands, or buts. There is no "shoot them in the leg" or "shoot them in the arm." Those are extremely difficult shots to make under pressure for even the most experienced of shooters. YOU try shooting someone in the leg when they're busy shooting at you. Tell us how it goes.

[jwirr]

115. He was not busy shooting the officer. Also I'm an old lady and I do not remember a time when this

repeated killing of unarmed people has been so prevalent for such idiotic crimes. And it is not just black persons. It is homeless and disabled persons and God only knows how many others.

Since you think shooting to stop them rather than kill them is impossible I wonder how they were apprehended in the past before we started the present trend? Maybe it is that we were not so gun happy back then? My grandfather was a policeman and never took his gun out of his holster.

As to the Hollywood idea of crime busting - I do not watch TV except for 4 hours of news each night. O and children's programing while I am taking care of my great grandchildren.

[Travelman]

117. I'm sorry, but you're simply not dealing with the facts.

Go and read any of the articles on this. The guy was shooting at a cop in uniform. He most certainly was busy shooting the officer.

And if you fail to remember a time when there were more cases of police shooting and killing people, then you must have missed the '70s and '80s pretty much entirely. There were A LOT more police shootings that killed people back then. I'll have to go and find the stat again, but going from memory, there were more fatal police shootings by the NYPD alone in 1979 (I think; again going off of memory here) than there were in the entire country last year across all departments, including the feds.

How it was done in the past is no different than how it's done today: police are trained to fire for center mass (the chest area) and to keep firing until that threat is neutralized. This is nothing new, this is nothing sinister. This has been the basis of police shooting training for many decades. This is why those silhouette targets have those circles in the chest area, not the head or the arms or the feet.

This "present trend" is simply your imagination and not reality. Sorry.

Your grandfather was among the happy majority of police officers who never have to fire their service weapon in the course of daily duty. MOST police never have to fire. Some do.

[Matrosov]

119. According to the police

He was shooting at the officer, according to the police.

He was holding a sandwich, according to eyewitnesses.

It's difficult to confuse a firearm for a sandwich if it is being fired, which leads me to believe there was no shooting. On the other hand, police officers have a long history of inventing stories and planting evidence when a case involves African-Americans. Perhaps he thought the 'suspect' was armed, shot him, realized it was just a sandwich, and now we have a story about how he was shooting at the officer before his gun magically jammed.

[KingCharlemagne]

120. Might be time for everyone here to review this tasty little morsel from our

recent policing history in a big metropolis:

The LAPD Rampart scandal refers to widespread corruption in the Community Resources Against Street Hoodlums (or C*R*A*S*H) anti-gang unit of the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) Rampart Division in the late 1990s. More than 70 police officers either assigned to or associated with the Rampart CRASH unit were implicated in some form of misconduct, making it one of the most widespread cases of documented police misconduct in United States history. The convicted offenses include unprovoked shootings, unprovoked beatings, planting of false evidence, framing of suspects, stealing and dealing narcotics, bank robbery, perjury, and the covering up of evidence of these activities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rampart_scandal

[bravenak]

126. The crash Unit harassed me and my friends.

They used to steal our lunch money. For real.

[Travelman]

122. No, not according to eyewitnesses

The one claiming that he was holding a sandwich was his cousin, who was not there at the time.

They recovered rounds fired from that sandwich at the scene.

[jwirr]

121. What I remember about the 70s and 80s is police brutality not shooting so many UNARMED people.

You defend this reality as if it is good. For small violations of unimportant "crimes" people are dying. That is not good.

As to this case I have read two different things about the "gun" the man was carrying. First there was a gun in a prior incident with this man. He discarded it and the police found it. And in this last one it is said he had a sandwich. So who do we believe? The first prior incident is true. What is the truth of this last incident? I have only read about the sandwich his parents talked about. After watching the police in Ferguson MO create a great cover up in Michael Brown's murder I will wait to see what witnesses have to say. Hopefully there are witnesses.

[Travelman]

123. This guy was not unarmed.

Who do we believe? The facts and reason.

The one who claimed that he only had a sandwich wasn't even there. That was his cousin who came along later. She just flat-out made up the claim about the sandwich, based upon the notion that he had indeed visited a sandwich shop earlier in the evening.

The police recovered the gun at the scene. They recovered three slugs fired at the scene, presumably fired from that gun (doubtless they will test these for ballistics). They will certainly test the gun for fingerprints. They will surely test the guy's hand(s) for gunshot residue at autopsy.



Now, you can either try to pretend that this is a gigantic cover-up, that the police came along and planted a gun on this guy, planted his fingerprints on the gun (assuming that they are found on it), planted GSR on his hand(s) (again, assuming that they find it), planted the slugs that were recovered, and just as a big cherry on top, got this guy caught in a gun charge just a few months ago, AAALLLLLLLL in the name of a great, big conspiracy to create an excuse to shoot some Black guy for shits and giggles, OR you can deal with the idea that maybe, just maybe, this went down just like they said: young punk, carrying a stolen gun, out when and where he wasn't supposed to be away from his GPS monitoring, awaiting trail on a gun charge, gets spotted by the police, gets into a fight with the cop, pulls his gun and tries to shoot the cop, and he picked the wrong time, place, and opponent for a gunfight.

I don't know about you, but the latter scenario sounds a WHOLE lot more plausible than the former one.

[jwirr]

124. So there were two incidents where he fired a gun at the police?

[Travelman]

127. AFAIK, he only actually *fired* last night

In June, he was involved in a high-speed chase in St. Louis and after the crash, he took off on foot. He had a gun and threw it into a storm sewer as he ran. He was captured and the gun recovered. But as far as I can tell, he didn't actually fire at police in that incident.

It was for that incident that he was out on bond and due in court in November. This is why he had a GPS monitor on his ankle.


http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/police-officer-fatally-shoots-teenager-in-south-st-louis/article_2d5a8c2a-97db-5cec-a477-1130d7d26f7e.html

Court records show that Myers was scheduled to stand trial in November for unlawful use of a weapon and resisting arrest. This summer, Myers was a passenger in a car involved in a high-speed car chase in St. Louis, officials say. The car crashed just after midnight on June 27 in the 1100 block of South Grand Boulevard. Myers got out of the car, and a police officer yelled at him to stop. Instead, Myers ran off and tossed a gun into a sewage drain. Police caught him nearby and recovered the gun, a loaded .380-caliber pistol.

Myers was jailed for a few days. Then, in early July, Myers was released on bail after posting $1,000 cash bond. His bail originally was set at $30,000 by Judge Rex Burlison but was dropped to $10,000 after Judge Theresa Counts Burke agreed with a defense motion that it was excessive. Burke allowed Myers to post 10 percent of that in cash. A second judge upheld that bond amount later.

On July 8, as a condition of bail, Myers was activated on electronic monitoring for house arrest, court records say. He could leave his home in the 4200 block of Castleman Avenue for work, school, court appearances, meetings with attorneys and meetings with the private monitoring firm.

That firm, Eastern Missouri Alternative Sentencing Services, Inc., was supposed to monitor Myers' movements and contact the court if he violated the rules. Nothing in the court file indicates any violations. Susan Ryan, a spokeswoman for the St. Louis circuit attorney's office, said prosecutors weren't told of any violations.

Myers' attorney, Peter Cohen, said going out to get a sandwich would have been OK under the conditions of the electronic monitoring. He said the ankle monitor is standard in most cases for anyone facing a gun charge in the city who is allowed out on bail.

[cstanleytech]

125. You forgot one there.

And that is if they did recover a gun and examine the bullets in the gun and find the kids fingerprints on said bullets that the police must have planted the kids fingerprints on the bullets as well.

[GitRDun]

110. Shouldn't this be a simple investigation?

The victim either had gunpowder residue on him or not. If so, he fired at the officer.

If not, it's a set up.

[uponit7771]

113. or the LEO did ID himself and began chasing 3 people in an unmarked while off duty. Same thing..

...happened to me as a teenager... stupid cop really put peoples lives in danger back then

[KingCharlemagne]

118. I'm a bit late to your thread. But your final comment in your original post

says it all, in my opinion.

I think at some point we must begin to debate whether black residents of the region are entitled to take all necessary measures for their collective self defense. If that means denying entry to white police officers\security contractors to their communities, then so be it. These policing practices are just f*ng unacceptable and indefensible.