Liberals, please answer me this question

[Zalatix]

Why, when the Tea Party was rampaging across America in 2009

#!

were liberals not absolutely SWARMING the Tea Party with counter protests?

Where were we in 2009?

How any liberal Democrats and liberal activists are there in America, and why were they not there to challenge the Tea Party?

Why? Why didn't we join forces with Occupy Wall Street in 2011?

[Syrinx]

1. I thought Occupy *are* liberals?

[Son of Gob]

2. Shhhh

You're disrupting a good shit stir.

[WonderGrunion]

3. Except for the Paulites and Anarchists

Occupy was a perfect example of herding cats

[meaculpa2011]

30. I was at Wall Street Friday night...

and the Occupiers had already been moved from the steps of Federal Hall to the corner of Wall and Broad. Pleasant evening. Warm temperatures. 75 or so "protesters" sitting around and obeying orders from NYPD.

AN OCCUPATION IS SUPPOSED TO BE RESISTANCE!

When the cameras are rolling they're angry and disaffected, then...

[Zalatix]

4. How many Occupiers are there out there protesting? How many DUers are there?

I do believe the latter is at least one order of magnitude higher. Let's not even talk about Democrats in general, just those on the DU make up a larger populace.

Occupy protests, to my knowledge, have never been as physically large as Tea Party protests back in 2009.

And why wasn't there an Occupy movement to counter the TP in 2009?

I take it there is just no answering why we didn't swarm the Tea Party in 2009. No matter how many times I ask this...

[Syrinx]

5. I have no idea what you're talking about

You're saying that the number of DU members is an order of magnitude higher than than the number of Occupy people?

Do you understand what "order of magnitude" means?

Please explain to me in simple terms what you are talking about. Sounds like to me that you are engaging in a back-handed promotion of the "tea party."

[Zalatix]

32. There are something like 10 times as many DUers as there are Occupyers.

[fasttense]

6. I think you are mistaking Teabagger propaganda for real facts.

I doubt seriously that the number of Teabaggers was ever higher than the number of Occupy protesters.

Think about what you saw during the teabagger heydays. Mostly a handful of people annoying federal representatives with stupid questions at town hall meetings. I barely saw a group of them larger than 50 at a town hall meeting and that was the biggest ones. Normally there were fewer than 10. Then they started forming minor racist rallies, many of them including their favorite toy - the gun. Today, you can hardly get 50 baggers to show up to watch the Koch brothers wash their car.

Then there are the inflated rolls the teabaggers claim to have as members. Those lists are useless. If you ever once put your name on anything tea-baggy-like you are considered a member.

So, I seriously doubt the Teabaggers were ever larger than the occupy protests.

And oh by the way the teabaggers did get arrested. Maybe not for protesting, usually for things like assault, rape and fraud.

[Zalatix]

33. The first TP protests were in the hundreds of thousands. They tapered off later.

[Bluenorthwest]

17. Odd stuff you are sort of saying. Occupy Wall Street had 10,000 and more and other

cities on the same day. Tea Party protests were scantly attended, always under the predicted figures. More people were arrested at Portland Occupy than showed up for any Oregon Tea happening.
And you know, the idea of looking for a confrontation is not how we do politics. Swarming them? Why? And if they were so in need of countering, where was our elected President? Silent all through that summer 'letting Congress do it' as he said. He did not show up nor address any of the crap that Democratic Reps had to face at Town Halls. Why is that? Is he not the leader of this Party?
I took part in Occupy in more than one city. So did most people I know, in at least one city. Apparently, you did not. Also, no Tea Party nut got elected in this State. What State are you in?
As I recall, most Tea Protests were a handful of seniors with folding chairs and costumes. A few dozen sad people at the most. To counter protest that almost seemed sadistic. 'Let's go yell at that old Lady and her dog!' Yeah. That sounds cool.
So your memory of the recent past is sure not like my own.

[cyclezealot]

7. Larger question still..

Where were all the Democrats..Not just the liberals.. Of course , many Blue Dogs even sided in with the Republicans.
Guess, we were lazy and thought by electing a savior , he could do it alone..
Among the liberals, many are asking themselves that same question.. Could be we were intimidated by the potential violent threats of the tea nuts. Of course, we had a few brave individuals such as the ' Physicians for Health Care reform,; who were carted of by Capital Hill police, when Sen. Burdick refused to give them a chance to testify before his committee.

[fasttense]

8. Yeah Cyclez, you hit the nail on the head.

Many people mistakenly thought protesting of any kind would reflect badly on Obama.

Many people thought Obama could do it alone and his administration encouraged that attitude.

Many people thought the teabaggers were just a retaliation for the anti-bush protests.

And finally the number 1 answer is - We couldn't get any media coverage. When we did counter protests, we rarely were even mentioned.

[Bluenorthwest]

20. I don't think people thought the President could do it alone, I think people just did

not expect him to panic at the sight of protests that were so daft and fake. I sure did not expect the administration to start reacting to the tea freaks as if they were what their creators claimed they were. Which they weren't.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

27. Intimidated by Glenn Beck 9/12 wackos and Grannies in...

"Teabagging for Jesus" t-shirts? LOL...yeah, no.

Did you elect a savior? I didn't. Why did you think you were? No one expected Obama to do it alone, and repeating it nauseam does not make it true.

Code Pink and nasty ol' FDL were fully engaged (just two examples), but where were the moderates and Indies? Sitting on the sidelines, per usual, trying to make up their minds. I expected the rabid Teabagger movement to die out on its own, which it seems to be: Newt Gingrich spoke in Raleigh yesterday and it looks as if all of 40 flag-wavers showed up. Unfortunately, Teabaggers did a lot of damage in 2010, and I blame Obama for not selling HCR and assuaging seniors' fears about death panels. I never expected him to do it alone, but I did expect SOMETHING (other than golfing with Big Pharma/Health execs...).

[trumad]

9. I was home watching Dexter.

[taterguy]

13. Dexter airs at night. Protests took place during the day

What were you really doing?

[trumad]

22. OK--- I am Dexter.

[Fumesucker]

10. Remember the wall-to-wall coverage of protests against the Iraq war?

Tens of thousands of people in the street, the M$M outdid themselves in fairly covering those massive protests..

And the coverage of the protests at the first Dubya coronation, massive coverage of the presidential limo getting egged and Dubya having to scoot for cover..

In Bizzaro World..

[backscatter712]

11. We were counter-protesting.

I can tell you conclusively because I was there.

Of course, if you get your information from the corporate media, you're not going to know this. The subhumans at FAUX News will babble breathlessly about six teabaggers in front of the mall, but completely ignore progressive rallies that draw a half-million people.

[Zalatix]

35. I attended several TP counter protests.

Early in the game there were hundreds of them and maybe 5 of us counter protesters.

LATER, the Teabaggers started tapering off until in 2010 and 2011 there were more reporters than TPers. I traveled to Wisconsin to watch them get utterly swamped by the Cheeseheads, but that wasn't how it was like in 2009. Look at any photos of Tea Party rallies in 2009, you'll see endless seas of TPers streaming through DC.

I can't believe no one recalls the sheer SIZE of those rallies.

If we had met them with the same rallies we had when President Obama was inaugurated, or when people were protesting GW Bush's first election, the TP would have FLED home and we'd have owned Washington DC.

[TalkingDog]

12. Because even rabid, ill-informed idiots have the right to free speech and protest?

Because any counter-protest is ignored by the media (as has been pointed out by other posters)?

When you have 10 teaparty protesters vs 50 counter-protesters and the media only shows an extreme close up of the "crowd" of 10 and their speaker, with one or two quick, cursory glances at the "small group" of counter protestors, you gotta kinda figure the media coverage isn't going to work in your favor.

And as I seem to recall there was this thing called Rally to Restore Sanity and/or Fear that was staged as an antidote to Beck/Tea Party idiocy. There were about 215,000 good citizens of this country in attendance.

Or maybe you just haven't been paying attention.

[bonzotex]

26. what you said!

The teabaggers are not worth the effort. Their alleged "influence" is just an excuse for establishment repubs do do crazy shit they want to do anyway.

There is nothing to be gained by "counter-protesting" them. It really is pig-wrestling of the vilest sort.

[geckosfeet]

14. Ick. Don't want to get anywhere near a tea party party.

It would suck the thought process from my brain.

Series!

[mmonk]

15. Not sure what you are saying.

We had the presidency and Congress and were lobbying them to do our bidding. After the Tea Party with the backing of billionaires gained control of the House and much of US politics, we were out there protesting on behalf of workers (and of which some of us had encounters with the Tea Party counter protesting us) and many of us joined in with Occupy and its protests. I intend to stay with different Occupy actions going forward, especially since the legislature in my state changed.

[TBF]

16. Well I'm not a liberal but I'll take a stab at your answer -

I do believe that some of the long-term activists were already planning Occupy at that time - or some sort of large scale protests. They had to be careful in how to approach it because we have a democratic president. Socialists/Communists know we are protesting the system and don't really pay much attention to who happens to be president at the time, but liberals would pay more attention to that. I believe that is why Occupy started in NY - they clearly wanted to protest what is happening with financial inequality without targeting the president. Also some liberals may simply want to give President Obama time to work on changes - you'll remember 2009 was just after his election.

Does that help?

Is there some particular point you're trying to make?

[Zalatix]

36. The point? I wanted to see the Tea Partiers overwhelmed by angry liberals in 2009

To prevent the electoral slaughter we suffered in 2010.

Voters respect strength. They respect numbers. They respect massive turnouts.

[TBF]

42. "Overwhelmed" how?

And why would you dwell on that now when we have an election to worry about? Are you just trying to stir up trouble? Why beat up on folks for something that happened in 2009/2010? Move on already.

[Zalatix]

43. Overwhelmed. Numerically. It matters.

Actually I've been screaming about this since 2009 back when we made fun of the Tea Party and no one knew just how many of them would win political office and cause grief for all Americans as elected politicians.

I knew back in 2009 that the Tea Party was VERY big trouble for America. That's why I - and very few others - counter protested them when they started.

And... move on to what? The Tea Party is on the wane now, but will Occupy protests be as large as the March for Women's Lives of days past, or the anti-Bush rallies? Not if large swaths of Democrats don't join up.

When the Occupy spring season hits, African Americans need to join up in force. Immigrant unionization and labor rights groups need to jump in. Antiwar activists need to jump in. The infamous anti-globalist protestors need to jump in. The AFL-CIO and every other labor group should join in. The unemployed and underinsured should join in. Women's groups should be the biggest group out there by far.

If we all joined Occupy, there would be nothing else to talk about on the evening news because CLOSE TO HALF their viewership would be out protesting.

Not getting my point yet? Okay, how about this.

Occupy Wall Street has a General Strike planned on May 1. How many people do you think will join the general strike? How big do you think those Occupy protests will be in the ensuing months? We need them to be BIG, VERY BIG. After what the Republicans have done to us the protests in spring should be the largest that America has ever seen.

Will we meet that target? Will we even come close?

[TBF]

50. Agree - Occupy is as good a vehicle as any and if we can get labor

on board (immigrant groups in particular as that overlaps with labor) we may be able to have an impact.

[Beaverhausen]

44. Tea Partiers weren't a grassroots organization and you know it

if there were indeed "hundreds of thousands" attending their rallies, as you stated upthread, they were there by the grace of the Koch Brothers, Dick Armey and their cronies.

But you knew that.

[Zalatix]

45. I knew that. But there will still hundreds of thousands of them.

The Koch brothers paid for those rallies. Everyone knows that. But their tactic was successful. It swayed voters in their favor. Or was the mess in November of 2010 a figment of my imagination?

We have no big benefactor, we've got to do this ourselves. You can either recognize that we needed huge numbers in 2009, the largest rallies in American history, fueled by the largest betrayal of the working class in American history, and you can recognize that we need these record-breaking numbers NOW in 2012 - or you can get mad at me for pointing it out. Which will it be?

[Beaverhausen]

46. you are answering your own question

plus, most of us were weary of 8 years of protesting bush and his wars and not getting 2 seconds of media airtime. In 2009 perhaps we were taking a break, thinking we were the group in power and didn't need to protest. And I disagree that any of their rallies were as big as you say. They did manage to get some candidates elected and they suck, but you have to thanks the corporate media for all of their help in delivering the tea party's message.

[Zalatix]

48. My question won't be answered until probably mid Spring or even summer time

When the Occupy movement really hits its prime for 2012.

If these aren't close to the biggest rallies in our country's history, then something is seriously wrong.

If only the sheer number of pissed off women take to the streets the media won't have an audience unless they're broadcasting straight to the protestors. Half the TVs at home will be unattended.

[OmahaBlueDog]

59. I'll take a different stab at this

Progressives took to the streets heavily from 2005-2008. This led to the election of Barack Obama, and the change in congressional power in 2006. Then:

- Simultaneous with the election of Obama, there was the Prop H8 fiasco. Barack Obama was subsequently slow to act in favor of marriage equality or even to repeal DADT. Many who supported these causes had worked hard over the years to get Dems elected in 2006 and 2008. They had a bad taste in thir mouths at that point.

- In 2008 and 2009, there appreared to be little momentum towared ending the wars. Gitmo didn't get closed. Many who supported these causes had worked hard over the years to get Dems elected in 2006 and 2008. They had a bad taste in thir mouths at that point.

- Starting with Arlen Specter switching sides, the Health Care Reform debate and passage had aspects that seemed like politics-as-usual, and were perceived as unseemly. Many who supported single payer had worked hard over the years to get Dems elected in 2006 and 2008. They had a bad taste in thir mouths at that point.

- Ths stimulus did not have an instant curative effect. People like to blame the party in power for the bad economy.

- Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Conservatives, who'd had the tar beaten out of them in '06 and '08 finally had Barack Obama to demonize.

In short, in 2009, they were motivated, and we weren't. That changed after the 2010 elections, and the clown-car that has been the GOP primaries.

[TBF]

63. Very nice assessment.

Another factor could be that folks just didn't take the tea party all that seriously. I mean at first glance who would? It was the media who publicized those protests, while with Occupy the only things they'll cover are folks getting pepper-sprayed and so forth ...

[OmahaBlueDog]

65. Especially in the begining, when the Teabaggers were waving Lipton bags...

...at passing traffic while dressed in revolutionary war garb and waving Don't Tread on Me flags. They were hard to take seriously. Gradually, they got coverage as being the counter-point to the "Change" movement that swept Obama into office.

You are also correct in that media coverage of occupy has mostly been "yawn here's the "professional left" camping in tents and making a damn nuisance of themselves again. yawn oh, and here are the police beating and pepperspraying them."

[One of the 99]

18. Good question

I've wondered that myself.

[ibegurpard]

19. "liberals"? so are you a conservative?

[socialist_n_TN]

28. Don't EVER mistake "liberals" as the ONLY representatives..........

of the left in politics. In fact "liberals" (depending on their economic beliefs) are as likely to be truely "centrists" rather than left.

There's a whole RANGE of left political thinkers/supporters that are WAY to the left of "liberal". I'm one.

[Zalatix]

37. Hell no. I'm trying to figure out how to rally the Left to come out in force.

[Aerows]

21. I'm here

Where are you?

[bonzotex]

23. The teabagger rallies were never very big.

I went to a couple of Tea bag rallies as well as the occasional Paulista rally/parade. I'm in Austin, so the teabaggers are a bit outnumbered, but they had media on their side, lots of meet-up groups and websites. They always got a lot of press even when the local media wouldn't cover Liberal rallies with thousands. Short story is, they were a novelty and good for a laugh. By contrast, the Paulistas, were younger, better organized and more coherent (at least by their Libertarian standards).

Turning out a 100 people was a good day for the Teabaggers. Even their big event in San Antonio with Ted Nugent and Glen Beck could barely fill the plaza in front of the Alamo. Most of the crowd there that day were tourists standing just a bit back, wondering WTF was going on.

If there is a rise again in the teabagger world, just keep you ear on AM radio and Google a few local Tea-party sites. When they plan something, just go, grab a friend, watch, then go do something fun. There is nothing to be gained by counter-protesting a few handfuls of bitter, white, middle-aged and senior citizens.

The teabaggers simply do not have a mobilized activist base like progressives. They could never in a thousand Sundays turn out any sustained protests like the Occupy movement.

[JNelson6563]

24. Because for many, posting on DU is the ultimate activism!

Sad, huh?

[unkachuck]

69. "...posting on DU is the ultimate activism!"

....for sure....I personally had no time; I was drying my powder....

[WorseBeforeBetter]

25. Google the Northern Virginia HCR Town Hall with Howard Dean and Jim Moran.

It wasn't pretty, and is but one of many examples. You'd know, if you were paying attention (or maybe you do know, and are just playing the role of shit-stirrer).

No wait, I change my answer to "We were chilling the fuck out cuz He's got this!"

Seriously, why is it that big, bad libruls are expected to do all the heavy lifting? The bigger question is where were the cherished moderates and Indies, and why were THEY not swarming and challenging the Teabaggers?

[JHB]

29. Spent too much time spell-checking?

[Paladin]

31. The Left Was Too Busy Making Jokes About The Tea Party.

It was perceived as a small, goofy movement that would disappear in a short time. Big, big mistake........

[etherealtruth]

38. I think you are correct

Their positions and opinions appeared laughable (moronic) ... imagine medicare recipients protesting with placards reading "keep the government out of healthcare" ....?

They seemed nothing more than a mockable distraction.

Who would have thought abject stupidity could become an actual movement ...a political force....?

Sadly, I think we were guilty of overestimating broad sections of the american public.

[laundry_queen]

52. Once again

the left overestimated the intelligence of the average american.

That's part of the reason why 'discussing facts' will NEVER work.

[ohiosmith]

34. Can't speak for the others, but I was busy smoking dope, having uninhibited sex and listening to

music that rots the brain and made us lose the war........what was the question again?

[Zax2me]

39. Rallies come and go. From both sides.

Sometimes the timing doesn't make sense.

[Zalatix]

40. It certainly made no sense to me when I was counter protesting the TP in 2009

and they numbered in the hundreds to our less than half dozen.

[LASlibinSC]

41. Punked!

I remember thinking, these people are idiots. Nobody will take them as anything but idiots..PUNKED! Because,as it turned out TONS of low info voters brought us the DoNothing but whine Congress

[TheKentuckian]

47. yeah, like we didn't protest invading Iraq!

I don't know what you are even talking about other than some lamebrained excuse to blame the left of the ills of the world. I honestly don't understand what you seem to have wanted, hundreds of thousands in the street with signs saying we want the opposite of whatever those astroturfed fucks say they want?

Why didn't we join Occupy? Who and what do you think Occupy is? Evan Bayh and no labels? I bet it was the Turd Way or the Chamber of Commerce.

Anything ever to move the onus from elected professionals doing their duty and onto the people who elected them, donated to the point of eating Ramen, and worked for their shiftless asses.

[Zalatix]

49. I wanted to see a million Americans out with signs reading "MEDICARE FOR ALL" in 2009

why didn't that happen?

Why won't it happen in Spring of 2012?

[TheKentuckian]

56. Because the people who support such were tied up in the reform kabuki theater

and trying to give the sellouts we just elected the space to move policy and/or were being ridiculed or even jailed by their "leaders".

You are essentially correct that we should have put the Democratic leadership on ignore, said fuck their games, and relentlessly demanded Single Payer to the exclusion of the politics. Not letting up until we got what we needed instead of waiting around for a garbage proposal to rally around.

[Egalitarian Thug]

51. While you were apparently living on zenu or wherever, we were there.

Of course you would have actually had to look to see them. Now the Democratic Party OTOH, was too busy trying to convince "the fucking retards" that corporate health care was the only option and to just shut up and go away.

Is there any point to this?

[Zalatix]

53. Really, and where on Planet Earth, aside from inside your mind

were there 1 million, or even 100,000 people, out in the streets with "Medicare For All!" signs in 2009? Okay, how about 10,000? Or 1,000?

Where were there even 100,000 people with "Public Option NOW!" signs?

I was out there with my own "Public Option NOW" sign.

[Egalitarian Thug]

54. As I said, you would have actually had to look. But you haven't answered the qurestion. n/t

[Zalatix]

57. Oh, please. There were not the numbers you imply there were. Not on Earth or elsewhere.

There were not 1 million people protesting for Medicare or the Public Option. Or even 100,000.

I call your bluff on this. Show the numbers.

[Egalitarian Thug]

60. I am not in the habit of doing other people's homework. If you had any genuine curiosity

you would look it up yourself. There are hundreds of articles and videos clearly showing people being arrested, being thrown out of meetings and debates, not to mention the organizations that abound.

This is just another flame-fest. Enjoy it, but don't try to pretend this is anything other than that.

[Zalatix]

61. I looked it up. You are wrong.

This is not a flame-fest, it is merely your opportunity to admit a basic fact. There weren't NEARLY as many people out there protesting FOR the Public Option as there were protesting AGAINST it.

People were getting arrested and thrown out of meetings and debates but in the year 2009 they were not nearly as many of them out there as there were Tea Partiers.

We'll see about 2012.

[Zalatix]

62. And while you're busy refusing to admit you're wrong why don't you also explain

why so many Democrats sat out the vote in 2010?

Oh, I'm sure you will claim I am wrong about this, too. Sooo....
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/latino-and-asian-voters-mostly-sat-out-2010-election-report-says/2011/04/26/AFr6X6qE_story.html

http://www.postonpolitics.com/2010/11/democratic-strategist-sink-sunk-by-low-turnout-weak-ticket/

We CANNOT afford another repeat of that.

[Bluenorthwest]

66. Here in Oregon, 2010 had the largest turn out for any non Presidential election since

the 80's. Records were shattered in many areas. Why did your State fail to turn out Democrats? Hmmmmmmm?

[Zalatix]

67. We were the OTHER state that stomped ALL Republicans who tried to take office.

Do you deny that we lost big, nationwide?

We CANNOT let this ever happen again. We lost horribly, in most nationwide and statewide races. Why must we deny this? Why can't we ask why this happened?

[Rex]

55. HAHA! Good one!

People were there protesting, sadly the M$M is on the Tea Parties side. So you didn't see any coverage of the counter-protests.

[joshcryer]

58. Liberals were too busy bashing each other.

[Daniel537]

64. So many missed opportunities from 2009-2011.

The conservatives were ready from day one to block as much as they could, and in many ways they unfortunately succeeded, the most important of course being health care. Don't think we'll get a better chance at changing the dynamic in this country for a while.

[Major Hogwash]

68. In 2009, there weren't any tea party coalition protests going on here.

The first one they held in the spring of 2010 only drew a dozen people in Boise.