2nd Texas Ebola case. Stop all Texas flights!

[Cyrano]

No one should be allowed to fly out of Texas. We're talking about Ebola here. And who knows how many Ebola infected Isis terrorists may have slipped into Texas from the Mexican border? Safer to just ground all the flights.


Oh, ... sorry. I must have had a brief case of GOP-think fever.

[Downwinder]

1. Might be better all around to quarantine the state.

[grahamhgreen]

16. +1

[appleannie1]

92. That would save us all.

[annabanana]

2. Heeee . ..good one. . . . . n/t

[vt_native]

3. make Tejas...

Leave the Union!


On edit: Maybe we should be bombing Texas?

[redwitch]

6. I have friends and family in Texas.

No bombing please. But maybe hire a Surgeon General and get with a really good protocol for dealing with this ebola thing?

[cherokeeprogressive]

23. Texas has an economy relatively the size of Spain. Vermont = Bahrain. I dare say we'd miss Texas...

Vermont? Not so much.

Economically, it would make MUCH MORE SENSE to bomb Vermont than Texas. There are dozens of counties in the United States with larger GDPs than the great state of Vermont.

GDP rank:

Texas - #2. Vermont - #50.

[FarPoint]

30. My son is in culinary school in Vermont.

I'd miss Vermont.

[Cyrano]

31. Not to worry

Innocent civilians would not be bombed.

[RufusTFirefly]

82. Just to be on the safe side though...

...please avoid any joyous wedding parties.

[IronLionZion]

112. Anyone who gets killed

shall be declared an enemy combatant, especially if we don't know who they are. Just in case. That way we'll know they're guilty.

Seems legit

[cherokeeprogressive]

52. Good luck to your Son! I'd love to go to culinary school when I retire...

and I'd NEVER want to see bombs dropped on Americans by Americans, or anyone else for that matter.

Again, good luck to your Son.

[FarPoint]

107. Brett is attending the New England Culinary Institute.

Small classes for 1:1 focus, French foundation, sustainable living...a fabulous school and beautiful remote location.

[A Simple Game]

56. Didn't anyone tell you? Size doesn't matter.

I wouldn't trade 5 of Texas for 1 Vermont.

[nilram]

66. +10

[ffr]

4. Why isn't Faux insisting we close our borders to them???

[TwilightGardener]

5. I do think we should stop travel from countries that have uncontrolled outbreaks.

That's really only a handful, it's temporary, and it shouldn't be seen as some sort of punishment or racism. If the US did develop a severe outbreak, I wouldn't be angry at the rest of the world for banning travel from the US. If we had a travel ban on Liberia, the TX nurse would be fine today--that is a fact.

[Warren Stupidity]

7. flu kills 50,000 people here every year and is far more infectious than ebola.

so you would also agree that the rest of the world should shut down all air travel to/from the us from around mid October to late March early April, right?

[TwilightGardener]

8. Most people recover from the flu--and most people who die from it are compromised

already. We fully understand how most strains spread, we have vaccines, and if people would just stay home when they're coughing and symptomatic, and wash hands more often, the occurrence would be cut dramatically. In contrast, look at the health care workers in western countries who KNOW they're dealing in life and death and follow protocols, and are still getting ebola. Sorry, ebola does warrant more extreme measures.

[homegirl]

80. And the

flu doesn't have a 50% plus mortality rate.

For several reasons I would welcome the action if Texas seceded from the USA.

[hedgehog]

108. "flu doesn't have a 50% plus mortality rate. "

at least not recently.......

[Cyrano]

10. It's really impossible to stop travel from

countries with outbreaks. Africa, Asia and Europe are linked by land. People can drive, bike, boat, take trains, or simply walk away from an infected country. And once out, they can fly even if flight restrictions were in place in their own countries.

[TwilightGardener]

15. No, it's not. They shouldn't be allowed to leave their countries at this point.

They need to make every effort to contain and quarantine this. There is no good reason why a travel ban shouldn't be in place except for absolute necessity (such as citizens from elsewhere leaving--and they should be screened and quarantined as well.) I don't need to leave this country--why do they need to leave theirs?

[A Simple Game]

77. I have a much simpler solution, I don't know why you didn't think of it.

You stay in your house, tape all the windows and doors shut. Watch DU and we will tell you when it is safe to leave.

[TwilightGardener]

78. Did I offend you in some way?

[A Simple Game]

91. No, why would you think so? I only offered a solution that inconveniences one

person instead of half of Africa, Spain, the United States, and who knows by next week.

Does my logic offend you?

[TwilightGardener]

93. If it's just an "inconvenience" as you say, then countries in Africa that have

many cases of ebola should be able to cope with not hopping on a plane and going to distant lands to infect others, don't you think? I think they should very much be "inconvenienced", so that people in unaffected areas don't die from the disease. Your logic isn't offensive, it simply doesn't exist.

[A Simple Game]

95. I long ago ceased letting fear rule my life, you should try it, it makes life so much better. n/t

[TwilightGardener]

97. Aww, condescension, how sweet. Here's some for you: I'm not afraid, dearie.

Not for myself. But I was a bedside nurse, just like the one who is now going to face a struggle for her life that didn't have to happen, if only Mr. Duncan had been turned away at one airport or another and been sent back home. You don't expose people to lethal risk in THIS country because you don't want to impose "inconvenience" upon a country that's staggering into governmental and societal collapse from a contagious disease with no cure. It shouldn't happen.

[A Simple Game]

99. A nurse with no compassion, I bet the patients loved you.

Have you spoken one word of support for the victims?

Mr. Duncan didn't take a direct flight to Texas, how many countries would you have impose restrictions upon themselves because of a person that exhibited no symptoms of Ebola? Would you shut down the hospital that sent him home a day after training the staff about Ebola procedures thus causing people to be exposed for two more days and probably signing Duncan's death certificate?

The United States has had 3 or 4 patients with Ebola, quick, when should we close our borders? Should Spain close their borders? Hurry, we need answers now before it gets much worse.

Now as a former medical professional are you prepared to talk about how we can speed up research for a cure and increasing drug production? How about training for the people of West Africa so they can better protect themselves and in doing so help protect the rest of the world from Ebola?

There are medical professionals putting their lives on the line by going to West Africa and facing the risk head on to help alleviate the pain and suffering of those people and my heart goes out to them. I don't know if I would have the courage to do that even if I was qualified, but I do have the courage to never deny them any and all aid including returning to the United States for treatment, if they need it. Then we have some that just want to close the doors and lock them.

[TwilightGardener]

101. I always relish the moment when someone who has no idea who I am or

what I've been through in life finally has to pull a baseless personal insult out of his or her ass to try to win a discussion.

[A Simple Game]

104. Sorry you feel that way... dearie. When your ready to talk solutions let me know.

As for a base, you have given me a lot of material to work with.

[TBF]

11. There are no direct flights from Liberia to Dallas -

In fact I doubt there are any direct flights from the affected countries to the US. Easy fix but it doesn't exist.

You could try to seal their borders but people have a way of getting through.

I think the best solution is to get this virus under control. We have a lot of resources on this earth and if we weren't so busy building weapons to bomb each other I think we could solve the problem of any health outbreak.

[TwilightGardener]

12. But their country of origin is what should restrict their movements, not where the

plane goes. There shouldn't be flights going into or out of Liberia and other badly affected countries except under controlled scenarios and for vital reasons. It's that simple. I believe Sierra Leone put itself in that position already.

[TBF]

19. That's fine but what about the folks who run

across in the middle of the night? Really, this is silly.

Why would you not seek to contain this disease?

You do know that by sealing off those countries you are dooming millions to death? Is that your goal? And you're still not going to contain it unless you literally put a bubble around the country.

[TwilightGardener]

35. Flights in to allow aid, food, medicine, commerce--all fine.

Tourists taking their infection to America or Europe in a bid for treatment--not fine.

[uppityperson]

36. Because "I don't need to leave this country--why do they need to leave theirs?" upthread

Indeed, wtf

[TwilightGardener]

43. Absolutely true. A temporary travel ban is very much in order, and common sense.

Most people do not have a real need to leave their home countries. It's not forever--just until the rate of infection starts going down.

[uppityperson]

46. I would rather see resources spent treating and finding and educating people than patrolling

360 miles of coastline and 1000 miles of jungle.

[TwilightGardener]

54. I believe we should aid the countries involved. I also believe that allowing the

infection to jump all over the place via travel is exceptionally stupid.

[uppityperson]

22. You want the Liberian gvt to blockade their borders so no one can walk, bike, drive, fly, boat to

anywhere else? 986 land miles, 359 ocean miles. How? How would this country be able to do that?

Per wiki
The total length of Liberia's land borders is 986 miles (1,587 km): 190 miles (310 km) with Sierra Leone on the northwest, 350 miles (560 km) with Guinea to the north, and 445 miles (716 km) with Côte d'Ivoire. Liberia currently claims a territorial sea of 200 nmi (230.2 mi; 370.4 km).

359 miles of borders on the Atlantic Ocean per this link
http://books.google.com/books?id=1lstRzSWEcUC&pg=PA70&lpg=PA70&dq=liberia+border+length&source=bl&ots=mBU4fr2U_h&sig=3_JJrZ0PN9_0X0mHP7uxR38Fduk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3cA6VP3ELOj3iwLqwoHoDg&ved=0CEIQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=liberia%20border%20length&f=false

[TwilightGardener]

32. Yes. It's common sense. If the situation is so dire that the US military

had to be called in, and OUR troops are exposed to risk in a bid to help them, then they shouldn't be allowed to go elsewhere and infect other countries. I know all the arguments for and against, but simply stopping the movement of potentially infected people would be extremely helpful.

[uppityperson]

37. Ah, this is because "OUR troops" are helping, because "we" have gotten involved when it is simpler

to just seal the borders, let them die and voila, it's over and done with?

Are you serious. Seriously, wtf.

[TwilightGardener]

41. They need help, but they shouldn't be allowed to travel around the world with this shit.

We obviously don't have a handle on it. Imagine if it makes it to big cities in India.

[Thor_MN]

29. How do you know country of origin if they drive out of Liberia to another country?

Or are you saying Liberians? In that case, what about someone from another country who happened to travel through Liberia?

[TwilightGardener]

33. Well, there's no 100% way of stopping any sort of human behavior, but that doesn't

stop societies and countries from setting policies and laws that can be helpful. No flights going to or from Liberia unless necessary and well-screened, no unnecessary border movements.

[Thor_MN]

38. And you believe that Liberia has air tight borders?

Attempt to close their borders (what would you think if other countries tried to close our borders?) and you will ensure that people leave by untraceable routes.

[TwilightGardener]

39. No. But that shouldn't stop common sense policies and effort.

[Thor_MN]

44. Your "common sense" policies would dictate that other countries close our borders

[TwilightGardener]

51. If we have a rampant ebola problem, they probably should restrict travel from the US

until the incidence of the disease is lowered and under control.

[Thor_MN]

57. And you believe that the US would accept other countries closing our borders?

[TwilightGardener]

60. We should do it ourselves if we had multi-state outbreaks or an epidemic. It's not likely to happen

here, even with sporadic cases, but Sierra Leone did this, I believe.

[Thor_MN]

81. I ask again, would we accept other countries doing this to the US?

Because you are calling for shutting the borders of other countries...

[TwilightGardener]

83. I have no idea how other countries would react to a big outbreak of ebola here.

Or how we would like it. But I would understand it if they didn't want flights full of Americans if we start having a real problem. To put this in perspective, however, a relative handful of countries have had thousands infected by now--thousands. We should have shut them down in terms of unrestricted travel when it was in the hundreds, because they are simply unable to contain it--and then given them all sorts of aid to quarantine and fight it. The problem has escaped their control, and if it spreads to other high-density cities with poor sanitation (again, I'm thinking India) it's going to get really stupid.

[Thor_MN]

85. So you have no idea if it would be considered an act of war?

Yet you are calling for imposing your fears on other countries...

The Bush/Chenney admin leaned on those same feelings...

[TwilightGardener]

86. ?? Act of war? Other countries don't have to automatically accept travelers or immigrants.

[Thor_MN]

87. You have called for externally shutting down Liberia's border.

" No flights going to or from Liberia unless necessary and well-screened, no unnecessary border movements. "

[TwilightGardener]

88. I called for a travel ban except on necessary travel.

Neighboring African countries can do what they think is best, but for our purposes here, meaning that the US will not accept flights from Liberia, Senegal, etc., or travelers holding passports from those countries, unless special circumstances warrant it. You can interpret that as you like, but it's pretty straightforward and logical. If that had been in place a few weeks ago, this nurse wouldn't be about to undergo a very terrible time.

[Thor_MN]

90. Are you paying ANY attention?

There ARE NO FLIGHTS FROM LIBERIA to the US!!! Everyone who travels from Liberia to the US passes through at least one other country.

If the person feels that they will not be able to do what they want to do, they will simply buy two separate tickets. Now they are traveling from Spain, France, England, etc.

[TwilightGardener]

94. But they have to have passports, don't they?

[Thor_MN]

100. Yes, and some of the people leaving Liberia, may have passports from Liberia.

Others may say Spain, Germany, etc. (not everyone leaving Liberia is from there.) What about someone who is a Liberian citizen but has been living in France for the last 5 years?

We are just going in circles now, this is covered ground. You appear to be facetiously raising questions to detract from that you are advocating unilaterally closing another countries borders, what would likely be considered an act of war if it weer done to the United States.

[TwilightGardener]

102. If they've been living in France for five years and originated the flight from France,

then they're coming from France. Not sure what you're getting at in terms of "unilaterally" closing another country's border. I'm saying the countries who are hardest hit should restrict travel of their citizens, and other countries/airlines shouldn't take passengers from these countries, unless there are necessary circumstances to do so. I think British Airways is doing that already. When enough workers from various industries decide they don't want to die cleaning up someone's infectious piss or shit for $10 an hour, all sorts of interesting things will start to happen on the government level.

[Thor_MN]

103. You could go to Liberia and lobby for them to close their borders...

Otherwise, you have talking about closing the borders for them unilaterally (or maybe with a coalition). It isn't realistic in even the most naive mind that the entire world would join together to cut off another country.

If the flight came from France, all you know is the flight came from France. How are you going to prove where the person has been living? Again with the facetious questions...

[uppityperson]

42. I am not sure what you are thinking the Liberian border looks like, but wtf. Here, try these...

There are a lot of good photos at this link.
http://jangoux.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/Africa-the-Kpelle-of-Liberia/G00004GV8bY_KTiA/I0000vi77B33mJ6E/C0000KfHcHzmM7Q8



Blog with photos
http://adventuresinliberia.blogspot.com/2013/04/travel-back-in-time-in-liberia-back-in_22.html

[TwilightGardener]

45. So? Even if some people sneak across borders, that doesn't mean we should allow

flights in and out, freely, all over the world.

[uppityperson]

49. "They shouldn't be allowed to leave their countries at this point" is what you said. How do you make

that happen?

[TwilightGardener]

53. Passports, visas turned down for air travel and border crossings.

[uppityperson]

55. Walk through the forest to the next country. Hop in a small boat to paddle next door.

and fwiw, the border crossing are not staffed, no visas are needed to cross those borders.

[TwilightGardener]

58. There's no 100% foolproof way to stop people's movements, but you don't have to make

it easy or likely, either.

[uppityperson]

59. So how would you go about securing those borders?

closing the airport would close 1 mile of those 1000 miles land and none of the water ones.

[TwilightGardener]

62. Did Duncan have to go elsewhere to get on a plane, or did he get on a plane in

Liberia? I'd start solving the problem there.

[uppityperson]

67. Gotcha, you'd close 1 mile, leave the other 999 miles open.

[TwilightGardener]

68. Well, he sat down in a tube and ended up in another continent, effortlessly.

Several continents. If you're going to take your ebola-infected self on a big journey, it's best that we don't help you.

[uppityperson]

70. You not only ignore 99.99% of the border but now say MDuncan should not have been helped?

"If you're going to take your ebola-infected self on a big journey, it's best that we don't help you."

You want to blockade the country, but refuse to say how in any way that can be done except for 1 of 1000 miles. You also say infected people should not be helped.

Incredible. Done with you.

[TwilightGardener]

73. Never said "blockade"--said unnecessary flights and travel.

But, OK...

[uppityperson]

74. "They shouldn't be allowed to leave their countries at this point." Copy/pasted, link below

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5656070

[TwilightGardener]

75. I don't think I contradicted myself. Most travel IS unnecessary in the face of a

pandemic that is growing and has no cure. Seeing grandma in Belgium or seeing your girlfriend in Dallas doesn't cut it.

[LittleBlue]

79. You're right. It's pretty simple, actually

Traveler has a passport with a marker from an infected country? No free entry. No passport? No entry, period. Obviously.

I get what you're saying. It makes sense and it isn't hard at all to understand.

[uppityperson]

96. Don't you get tired of moving those goalposts?

"They shouldn't be allowed to leave their countries at this point."
" Never said "blockade"--said unnecessary flights and travel."

No, you said "They shouldn't be allowed to leave their countries at this point."
"Seeing grandma in Belgium or seeing your girlfriend in Dallas doesn't cut it."

[TwilightGardener]

98. I didn't move any.

[grahamhgreen]

17. Then logic dictates we stop TX flights, too.

[TBF]

27. We're not dealing with a whole

lot of logic in this thread ...

[DeadLetterOffice]

106. Noticed that, did you?

Makes my head hurt...

[TwilightGardener]

63. If there's a big outbreak in TX, then yes.

[LittleBlue]

40. BINGO!

West Africa isn't Texas. We could stop all travel and nothing would be lost.

Stopping all travel to and from Texas would massively disrupt the economy. Stopping all travel to west Africa loses us nothing. Texas has two infected people, Africa has thousands. The people equating the two are intellectually dishonest

[uppityperson]

61. And there it is. "Stopping all travel to west Africa loses us nothing"

Let me repeat, "loses us nothing"

[LittleBlue]

64. I won't apologize for putting ourselves first

And I feel no shame for it. Let whoever wants to volunteer go over there and help, but make damned sure they spend a day or two under observation to ensure they aren't coming back infected.

As for regular travel, nope. You go over there, you're not coming back until the outbreak is over. Sorry. Texas =/= west Africa, it shouldn't even be there. Duncan should never have been allowed into this country, and this woman's life shouldn't have been in danger.

[uppityperson]

69. Disrupt their economy, make sure they don't get supplies, yup, won't hurt US so f* them?

"We could stop all travel and nothing would be lost." Experts say that is totally wrong.

[LittleBlue]

71. What economy?

What is our tourism to Liberia worth? Not one American dying from this illness, that's what. And all this PC bullshit now has a woman infected and fighting for her life.

Same crowd told me that it was probably already here months ago. No it wasn't, as I said at the time. We let it in. Idiots.

[uppityperson]

72. The only economy you can think of for Liberia is tourism? Seriously?

[LittleBlue]

76. So quarantining people would halt all commerce?

[valerief]

9. Build a wall along OK, NM, AR, LA, and Mexico!!! Seal off TX!!!

Please???? But first, bring Perry back to TX. We want his ass quarantined, too.

[LisaL]

13. Give it a rest.

Some of us live in TX, and this stupid talk is getting me very angry.

[Cyrano]

18. My op isn't a put down of Texas

It's aimed at those (like Fox "News&quot who want to stop flights out of Ebola infected countries, and the crazy GOP candidates who are saying they have information that Ebola and Isis are crossing the Mexican border.

[Oilwellian]

28. Most of us understood what you meant

It made me laugh, and I'm originally from Texas.

[valerief]

21. I knew I should have put the sarcasm tag in there for the sarcasm-impaired. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. I'm sure the nurse's and Mr. Duncan's family have broke some ribs from laughing so hard./NT

[Cyrano]

14. There's already a fence on the Mexican side

The Mexicans have to remain alert and not let anyone cross over. There must be Mexican militia groups that would volunteer to patrol the border.

[TBF]

20. Yeah, we know how well that works.

[Sancho]

110. As long as the Texas Air Nationals Guard declares a no-fly zone, we'll feel safer...

right now Texas is the only state with out-of-control WMD's. Of course, it's a matter of time before some other states join the club.

[seabeyond]

25. you know. i do have one particular little repug, that was truly offensively nasty when duncan

showed up. and your sugggestion is absolutely one of those.... look straight into her eyes, and .... now we shut us in. no flights out. you in the northeast? well stay out. none in and none out.

as she said, way back in, so very nasty

[uppityperson]

26. We need to shoot down all international flights that enter our airspace also because they might be

carrying the ebola, or someone from Africa, or someone who met someone from Brussels!!!!!111111


We are SERIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111

[Marrah_G]

34. Let's build a wall!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Voice for Peace]

47. ebola might come over the border into new mexico!!

what if coyotes in texas get it, and they come along the
rio grande, and they bite everybody they meet?

[Sancho]

111. They don't need to get bitten as long as Texans are eating road-kill stew!

After all, that's how ebola supposedly originated in Africa. Hard to change those cultural habits.

[jtuck004]

48. Did it before, do it again. Oklahoma national guard to the Red River because of Texans...

Should have left them there after 1931

[Ron Obvious]

50. I'd say nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. n/t

[Cyrano]

105. Yeah, but there's always one

hiding somewhere on Ripley's ship.

[librechik]

65. shut down the Texas borders!

send in the National Guard!

heh

[world wide wally]

84. Nuke 'em!

[Mustellus]

89. Our southern border.....

.. is now Oklahoma !!!!

[hedgehog]

109. On a more serious note - before locking the entire country of Liberia into quarantine, educate

yourself -

When I checked last week, about 0.1% of the people in Liberia had had any contact with Ebola.

If it is that easy to catch, why aren't they all dead or dying by now?

[IronLionZion]

113. Texas' GOP politicians should be preemtively quarantined

just in case: