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Sun Apr 15, 2012, 08:23 AM

What would a real "class war" look like ?



Every time a Democrat mentions higher taxes on the wealthy, the Republicans start screaming "class warfare". Bloody and beaten, the lower working class of this country drag themselves to work everyday with the knowledge that they will be in a deeper hole tomorrow, especially if the old car goes out or one of the children get sick. Every time they feel like they can take one step forward, they end up taking two steps backward.

When the Republicans mention "class warfare", the Democratic leaders seem to scurry away and look for a hole to hide in. They avoid the battle at all costs. Just as they did with the "war on women" debate this very week.

Which brings us to the point of the post. What would a real "class warfare" look like?

In my opinion, Democrats need to get serious. If there is going to be a "war", then let us vow to win it. Yes, there will be division. It will be the 1% against the 99%. Those are the numbers. We are not the minority in this "class war". Democrats need to embrace this idea.

First of all, we should not shy away from a battle with the wealthy and the taxes they pay. They do not pay enough. Also, the Republicans in Congress are the problem. The American people have to realize that it is the Republicans that are blocking progress for the people of this nation. Whether it be taxes, wages, healthcare, childcare, or whatever, it is the Republican Party that is blocking it. It is time to call them out. Let the people decide which side they want to be on.

If there is going to be a class war, then let's get serious. Let's give the voters a "real" choice. It is time for the ambiguity to cease. Republicans support the 1% at the top and they lie to everyone else. The facts speak for themselves. The dress their "war" in pretty words like "freedom", "opportunity", "free markets", etc. It is all a bunch of malarkey. It is them against us and we should stop being cowards and face that reality...

.

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Reply What would a real "class war" look like ? (Original post)
kentuck Apr 2012 OP
mmonk Apr 2012 #1
FightForChange Apr 2012 #2
socialist_n_TN Apr 2012 #16
izquierdista Apr 2012 #3
kentuck Apr 2012 #6
socialist_n_TN Apr 2012 #29
kentuck Apr 2012 #31
socialist_n_TN Apr 2012 #44
stillwaiting Apr 2012 #4
kentuck Apr 2012 #5
MichaelMcGuire Apr 2012 #7
kentuck Apr 2012 #8
MichaelMcGuire Apr 2012 #15
kentuck Apr 2012 #17
wilsonbooks Apr 2012 #9
kentuck Apr 2012 #11
russspeakeasy Apr 2012 #21
HiPointDem Apr 2012 #38
kentuck Apr 2012 #39
russspeakeasy Apr 2012 #45
jp11 Apr 2012 #10
kentuck Apr 2012 #12
lumberjack_jeff Apr 2012 #13
kentuck Apr 2012 #14
baldguy Apr 2012 #18
socialist_n_TN Apr 2012 #30
Aerows Apr 2012 #19
kentuck Apr 2012 #20
Aerows Apr 2012 #22
kentuck Apr 2012 #24
russspeakeasy Apr 2012 #23
kentuck Apr 2012 #25
russspeakeasy Apr 2012 #26
kentuck Apr 2012 #27
russspeakeasy Apr 2012 #28
HiPointDem Apr 2012 #40
FogerRox Apr 2012 #32
kentuck Apr 2012 #33
HiPointDem Apr 2012 #34
Egalitarian Thug Apr 2012 #35
kentuck Apr 2012 #36
theaocp Apr 2012 #37
Tesha Apr 2012 #41
99Forever Apr 2012 #42
socialist_n_TN Apr 2012 #46
Joe Shlabotnik Apr 2012 #43
ashling Apr 2012 #47
underpants Apr 2012 #48

Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 08:27 AM

1. It can be political or in the streets.

So far, it looks to me like it will move to the streets because the monied interests are in control.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 08:33 AM

2. It's time to stand up for ourselves

Most of the Republicans who spit that trash don't even know what it means. We've been taught that a redistribution of wealth was an evil communist plot to steal or freedom. WHICH IT IS NOT. Economically, you have no freedom because it's all controlled by corporation and big business owners. The "trickle down" idea hasn't worked and the average American is seeing minimal or no benefit from the tax cuts. It's time to stand up and express why we are so pissed off. It started with Occupy Wall street, now let's Occupy America.

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Response to FightForChange (Reply #2)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 09:54 AM

16. Key phrase in your most excellent answer, IMO.........

"Economically, you have no freedom because it's all controlled by corporation and big business owners."

It's freedom all right, but it's ONLY FREEDOM FOR THE 1%. Freedom for the rest of us means WORKER CONTROL OF THE MEANS OF LIVILIHOOD. Or production if you prefer. You can't have political democracy without economic democracy.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 08:35 AM

3. Here's a film clip of one....

 



That one really shook up the classes.

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Response to izquierdista (Reply #3)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 08:51 AM

6. Sometimes I think...

workers are much more enslaved to the system today than back then.

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Response to izquierdista (Reply #3)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 12:03 PM

29. I REALLY want to see that movie again........

And you're right. That class war was a TRUE class war, when the working class fought back. It shook the world for decades.

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Response to socialist_n_TN (Reply #29)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 12:06 PM

31. You won't read it in history books....

But it scared the hell out of the capitalists in this country also. It was one of the reasons the New Deal was adapted during the Great Depression. Many capitalists thought our country was going communist and the New Deal was a compromise to prevent that from happening.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #31)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 04:43 PM

44. Yep. EXACTLY right kentuck.....

I've said it often. If you want FDR type reforms, you'd better support the revolutionary left because the threat of the revolutionary left is what scared the capitalists into granting the FDR reforms in the first place. They certainly didn't do it out of their evil hearts.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 08:36 AM

4. Democratic voters have absolutely ZERO problem having this debate and pointing out the facts you...

...bring to the table with your post.

ELECTED Democrats are "scared" to do so. Supposedly for political reasons. However, should they have this debate they would win
massive support from most Americans, and surely they know this.

We will have to MAKE elected Democrats support us because many of them are purposeful infiltrators to the Party OR corrupted by Big Money and power.

To be clear, the Republican Party will never, ever, EVER do a damn thing to help the majority of Americans in this country on economic issues, but the Democratic Party will only help us out IF WE MAKE THEM, and every single crumb elected Democrats dish out will be hard fought.

Vote for Democrats AND protest their asses. They deserve it until they begin fighting for us.

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Response to stillwaiting (Reply #4)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 08:49 AM

5. I would agree...

...that it is up to us to change the Democratic Party.

Otherwise, if we leave it to those now in charge, we will continue to lose the "war". It is unfortunate, but it is the truth.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 08:53 AM

7. The class war, has been going on for years upon years. Against the Working Class.

 

Starts @ 1:25


T Sheridan (Solidarity) in kick arse mode

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Response to MichaelMcGuire (Reply #7)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 09:06 AM

8. In my opinion..

It is easy to escape responsibility for our votes and our actions by blaming it on the Party leaders. You can disagree with the actions of your Party and still be a strong member of that Party. I think that is a problem with today's politics. We need to define voting as a personal action that takes personal responsibility. It is an individual action, not a group action.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #8)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 09:52 AM

15. Come again? (nt)

 

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Response to MichaelMcGuire (Reply #15)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 11:14 AM

17. Basically, we don't hold our leaders accountable...

Especially the Republicans. They could promise to put a turd in every pot and their followers would vote for it. When do they have to accept responsibility for their votes? When do the Democrats make voting a personal decision, rather than a decision of the "Parties"?

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 09:11 AM

9. The problem is that many elected Democrats are on the

side of the 1%. Sadly George Carlin had it right, They have a club and we ain't in it.

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Response to wilsonbooks (Reply #9)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 09:15 AM

11. And if we continue to put the Party over the people...

We will deserve just what we get. We have to stop defining everything by Party definitions. How many times do we have to be hit over the head before we see what is happening??

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Response to wilsonbooks (Reply #9)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 11:24 AM

21. ...and the very minute you insist that a politician follow up on his/her

campaign promises, you are lambasted by so called progressives, for "not supporting the president". "He wants to do all the things he promised, but the nasty republicans won't let him". "But by golly, his second term will be really, really progressive".

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Response to russspeakeasy (Reply #21)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 01:49 PM

38. +1. The double-bind is excruciating. If we try to hold politicians accountable, we're accused

 

of being closet republicans, if we posit alternative strategies we're told it's up to us to force politicians to enact them.

All the while, the majority of politicians on both sides go their merry way enacting the legislation that their *funders* desire, and their funders are the 1%.

But it's not *their* fault, it's always *our* fault, for failing to parse the double bind.

The american people are manipulated to the nth degree, herded like cattle. It's sickening.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #38)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 01:51 PM

39. Damn !

Bring out the cattle prods...

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #38)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 04:46 PM

45. I couldn't have said it better..

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 09:14 AM

10. Class warfare is about the rich vs everyone else

politicians need the rich and don't want that war, democrats OR republicans, republican much more so. Republicans are the rich and are owned by the rich but dems are still 'rented/leased' by them as well.

What we really need is campaign finance reform and the removal of lobbyist/government revolving door/corruption.

Republicans lie to win elections and they do this by doing what the people bankrolling them say and pandering to Americans based on their fears using the money they are given for services rendered. Get the money out and they can't so easily deceive the people and maybe the republicans of today would get voted out of office or revert to more moderate type from 20+ years ago when they'd work to get things done with democrats based on their 'ideas' about the role of government.

I'd obviously rather have democrats take all those spots, even if they did, we'd get some conservative democrats who could have been moderate republicans years and years ago so far to the right has our government shifted.

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Response to jp11 (Reply #10)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 09:18 AM

12. Yes, we need campaign finance reform...

But we will never get it until we can put the Republicans into the minority in each House. Even then, we will have to twist the arms of many Democrats until they feel the pain to do what the people want. This election should not be about the Republican Party vs the Democratic Party as much as it should be about the Republican voter vs the Democratic voter. People tend to hide behind their Party label...

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 09:41 AM

13. So now we need some generals who are not themselves 1%-ers. n/t

 

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #13)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 09:44 AM

14. Yes.

We need the people to take control of the Democratic Party. They are not equipped to fight for us. Most of them are closer to the Republican Party than they are to the People.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 11:15 AM

18. Paris, 1789

 

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Response to baldguy (Reply #18)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 12:05 PM

30. St. Petersburg, 1917.....

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 11:18 AM

19. It would be kind of awesome

 

Because mothers would make sure their children had enough to eat, could go to well run, well financed schools, people wouldn't die from lack of health care, and rich people who stole from all of us would end up in jail along with other thugs like themselves.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #19)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 11:21 AM

20. But people act as if they don't deserve such things...

and that only the rich are deserving. And vote to screw themselves and their kids and give everything to the wealthy, under the guise of some type of "freedom" they will never see in their lifetimes...

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Response to kentuck (Reply #20)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 11:25 AM

22. Some people are indoctrinated

 

They believe that somehow they are better off if they vote against anything for anyone's future even though they are starving themselves.

They'd rather steal their neighbors goat than fight against the aristocrat that owns the land, the goats and taxes the milk.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #22)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 11:31 AM

24. I guess that is the point of my post...

We need to declare war on those that would vote to starve themselves and their children for the sake of their Party or their candidate. So long as they do not have to accept responsibility for their actions, they will continue to vote against their own interests and the common good ...

Ignorance is not bliss - ignorance is dangerous to us all.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 11:27 AM

23. The first god damned thing we need is a leader who REALLY

believes in it.

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Response to russspeakeasy (Reply #23)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 11:35 AM

25. Do you get the feeling that the Democratic Party doesn't really want higher taxes on the wealthy?

And they will abandon the idea at the first sign of opposition, such as when they vote for the Buffet rule tomorrow? They don't really believe in because they think they will lose on the issue of higher taxes, even if only on the wealthy.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #25)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 11:39 AM

26. I think they love the status quo, as long as "status quo" means

"I get re-elected and keep all my perks".
The Buffet rule is going nowhere and they know it.

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Response to russspeakeasy (Reply #26)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 11:49 AM

27. Yep...

But it will make the progressive base feel like they have someone on their side...

Damn! I am depressing myself!

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Response to kentuck (Reply #27)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 11:52 AM

28. I do that to myself on a daily basis. Depress myself, I mean.

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Response to russspeakeasy (Reply #23)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 01:52 PM

40. No such white knight will emerge without an activated citizenry demanding such things, and

 

willing to take risks to get them.

Keep waiting for the white knight, he ain't coming.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 01:34 PM

32. "If there is going to be a class war"

There IS a class war, and we're losing.

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Response to FogerRox (Reply #32)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 01:35 PM

33. But we are not comfortable in accepting that fact...

We would rather pretend it is politics as usual...

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 01:44 PM

34. We're already in a real class war, but most of those on the side of labor have disarmed themselves

 

or been disarmed. I agree, more chance of success by getting serious, but that assumes the war is one the leadership wants to win. Unfortunately, the 1% fund the leadership on all sides of the political war -- that even includes the 'socialists'!

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 01:45 PM

35. I think that as this war heats up, you might be surprised at just who

 

will be fighting for "them" against "us".

May Day 2012.

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #35)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 01:47 PM

36. I have always enjoyed the quote in your sigline.

Thanks!

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 01:47 PM

37. Walls, heads, spikes... n/t

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Response to kentuck (Original post)


Response to Tesha (Reply #41)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 02:17 PM

42. Unfortunte but very true. n/t

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Response to Tesha (Reply #41)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 04:48 PM

46. The first one needs to be set up next to Wall Street.......

THEN the Washington Monument.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 04:39 PM

43. without a realistic definition of whats at stake and what constitutes victory

the notion of a 'winning' will be limited to lip-services paid and at best incremental improvements. As long as the majority of the 99% share the same values of what constitutes wealth as defined by the 1%, then deposing the current 1% is mainly an act of retribution and likely futile. The belief that wealth can be quantified by money and fed only through constant growth is the root of the problem. Fighting for a bigger piece of the pie is understandable, but no-one is willing to admit that the pie itself is carcinogenic. Instead of growth, the new reality must be entirely about Equality (social, legal, medical) through Sustainability (environmental, intellectual, spiritual), or else we're all going down. Its bigger than individuals, parties, or nations.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 06:47 PM

47. We still have some rights left:

the right to work, the right to starve, and the right to die (and I'm not so sure about the first one)

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Apr 15, 2012, 06:51 PM

48. class war comes in a suit and it prevalent on the TV

the golf courses are buffer zones for the gated communities. And now they have themselves a private military (Blackwater -see W's 2005 SOTU speech) to protect them.

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