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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums5 Reasons to Stop Talking Sh*t About People From the South and Midwest
This is dehumanizing. And progressives should not be dehumanizing people. Nobody should be dehumanizing people -- and progressives especially are supposed to be fighting for the dignity, equality, and humanity of everyone. It is hypocritical for us to claim to be doing that, while treating hundreds of millions of people as placeholders.
2. It's classist. One of the distinguishing features of big progressive coastal cities is that they're often expensive. If someone lives in Columbus or Memphis instead of San Francisco or New York, there's a reasonable chance that they're doing it because that's where they can afford to buy a house, put their kids through college, work for a small business or a non-profit, start a small business or a non-profit, even simply pay rent. Living in San Francisco is becoming increasingly impossible for anyone who isn't a tech millionaire.
So dismissing people from the Midwest and South, to a great extent, means dismissing people who aren't rolling in dough. Progressives should really not be doing that. Again -- nobody should be doing that, but it's especially hypocritical when progressives do it.
And of course, the assumption that every decent interesting person would want to live in the big coastal cities if only they could -- that's classist in its own way. Some people don't like crowds, prefer a slower pace, care more about access to wilderness than access to foofy restaurants. I don't happen to be one of them myself. Foofy restaurants mean a lot to me. But we need to recognize that a taste for foofy restaurants is not the marker of decency, compassion, or even progressive politics.
http://www.alternet.org/culture/5-reasons-stop-talking-sht-about-people-south-and-midwest
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GeorgeGist
(25,570 posts)Hipster Doofi? 
Logical
(22,457 posts)
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)I used to live in Michigan in a fairly conservative small town. I still don't like it when people talk trash about hillbillies. But, yeah go ahead and make fun of the small minded from the small towns. I know what they are like.
Logical
(22,457 posts)
Hissyspit
(45,790 posts)Yeah, people are generalizing, and there is a lot of bad people in other regions, too.
But look at the public policies, compare the policies. The South is bad. Although the article is, of course, making good points, and not so good points ("some people don't like crowds?"
, insulting the region doesn't bug me TOO much.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)I understand why people do it. But, even in the south people are struggling. And it's not the ones struggling that are making the bad policies. And even in really red areas there are people who are fighting the good fight maybe only 35%, but it's a large majority. I understand this stuff a little too well. My family while not technically hillbillies being that we have roots in Michigan that go back a couple hundred years still do the hunting and fishing thing. And my dad was one of those liberal fishermen. Even in the small town culture there are a lot of liberal minded people and there are some like me that go out of their way to read and get an education. So bagging on a region isn't quite my thing. Or bagging on a culture not so much. I prefer to single out individuals like Romney and people that fall for his schtick.
Hissyspit
(45,790 posts)No, they just vote for them.
North Carolina voted to take citizens' right to get married away. They voted to REMOVE a basic human right from other citizens.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)Struggling people do vote Democrat a lot more than people who have higher incomes. But, some do tend to be social conservatives and I am sure that peels off some votes that would go to Democrats. But, you are right when people who are struggling vote for Republicans they should feel some shame.
Whiskeytide
(4,654 posts).... Needed to vote in the idiots who make the decisions. And, even if 65% voted for the bad guy, a generalized disrespect for an entire region still slaps the 35% progressive vote in the face. It's ok though. We Southern progressives are nevertheless progressive, so we hang in there for the good fight even though there are sometimes arrogant asses who don't think we amount to much.
Jamastiene
(38,206 posts)Those of us who are progressives down here have to deal with the horrible nature of Republicans AND hear how we are less than and worthless from other progressives in other areas. For me personally, add being a gay woman into the equation and it just seems wrong to get the hate from all sides.
Response to Jamastiene (Reply #89)
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Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)But it whatever it was very likely proved your point.
former9thward
(33,424 posts)Or did you willfully forget that little inconvenient fact?
Hissyspit
(45,790 posts)Why the South is the worst place to live in the U.S. — in 10 charts
By Roberto A. Ferdman October 7
Looking for a healthier lifestyle? You might want to move to Hawaii. More educated people? You should probably try Montana, Vermont, or Minnesota. Better job prospects? North Dakota. And if you want the best quality of living, pound for pound, the best place to live is New Hampshire.
But if you're trying to avoid places where all of the above are (well) below average, you'll want to stay clear of the South.
That's what data from a new report by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) appears to suggest. The report ranked all 50 states (plus the District) according to nine different measures of well-being: health, safety, housing, access to broadband, civic engagement, education, jobs, environment, and income.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)Pound for pound, you'll probably get more in Bentonville, Arkansas, than in those cold northern climes
Low unemployment
Low cost of living
Low crime rate
Good air quality
Excellent schools
Relatively mild winters
World-class art museum
Large community college in town, major university nearby
Hissyspit
(45,790 posts)The South has the most repressive, counter-productive policies against women of the entire country.
Woo-hoo, the Waltons raid the countryside and we get a museum out of it.
Mild winters? Really?
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)Doing better? By whose criteria?
And yeah, Bentonville has relatively mild winters. It almost never stays below freezing for an entire day. Snow melts within a few days. There is no comparison with all the northern states you listed.
And what the blazes is "I are the places you doing worse so I the South" supposed to mean?
Hissyspit
(45,790 posts)View it here; it goes with a NYT article: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/10/20/1337820/-Why-anyone-in-the-South-would-continue-to-vote-Republican-after-seeing-this-Map-defies-logic
Sorry, thought I put the link in. Those are brackets from subtitling, not I's.
Education, Median Household, Unemployment Rate, Disability Rate, Life Expectancy, and Obesity. (The South has the worst upward mobility rates, as well.) to be fair not ALL of this is based on policy, but more than might expect is.
I really don't think presenting the home of Walmart and the Walton's is the best way to make your counter-argument IMHO.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)I did discuss a town I know very well, Bentonville, which technically is in the South, you know, that region of the country to be avoided at all costs because everyone there is fat, poor, unemployed, sick, and dies young 
Tweedy
(1,284 posts)... But Californians did too.
cordelia
(2,174 posts)Hissyspit
(45,790 posts)I'm talking about my state. Shame California decided to act like the South.
I really thought the person I was responding to would bring California in response and I was waiting for that!
cordelia
(2,174 posts)Democrats and progressives who live in the South?
It would seem that you do.
And that's a shame for all of us.
Hissyspit
(45,790 posts)heaven05
(18,124 posts)the ones that are "struggling" will vote for people(guess who) who will make their struggle harder with "bad policies". That's what I don't understand. And that mentality is NOT limited to the South or Midwest.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)
Califa
(27 posts)the people are dumber than rocks with my apologies to the rocks. Recently I've found former friends and relatives on social media, and guess what? The people are even dumber than when I left. So go ahead and mock away.
Strelnikov_
(8,161 posts)Bash away.
rurallib
(64,684 posts)Strelnikov_
(8,161 posts)Harkin picked a bad election cycle to retire.
Logical
(22,457 posts)
progressoid
(53,134 posts)
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)Until we stop electing asshole Republicans we're fair game.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Nay
(12,051 posts)of black people and closet Democrats wanted to vote in that historic election. I can assure you they won't be showing up next month.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)and not the parts that represent the highest growth of the population in the state: the cities.
The ten most populous cities and their mayors:
Houston (2,099,451) - Annise Parker (D)
San Antonio (1,327,407) - Ivy R. Taylor (D)
Dallas (1,197,816) - Mike Rawlings (D)
Austin (790,390) - Lee Leffingwell (D)
Fort Worth (741,206) - Betsy Price (R)
El Paso (649,121) - Oscar Leeser (non-partisan)
Arlington (365,438) - Robert Cluck (R)
Corpus Christi (305,215) - Nelda Martinez (D)
Plano (259,841) - Harry LaRosiliere (D)
Laredo (236,091) - Raul G. Salinas (Democrat in nonpartisan position)
That's 6,216,211 Texans represented by known Dems. Now, if you want to go through the 100 Largest Cities in Texas by Population and determine all of those mayor's party affiliations, then be my guest. Just be polite and post your results 
And so, the political landscape is changing here, if y'all can have just a teansy bit of patience...
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)State Representatives -- 95 R, 55 D
US Representatives -- 24 R, 12 D
US Senate -- 2 R, 0 D
Further, we manage to elect some the absolute most batshit crazies like Louie Gohmert, Joe Barton, Steve Stockman, and Ted Cruz, as well as past luminaries like Tom Bugman Delay, Phil Enron Gramm, and Dick Freedom Works Armey.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)But as I stated in my previous post, 80% of the top ten most populous cities in the state are Democratically held. Why isn't that at least as important as state representatives per your post here? Cities govern quite a bit with regards to legislation that affects millions. Maybe it doesn't affect all of the people of the state, but it does affect the largest concentrations of the overall population.
One important fact is how that affects people's vote for things in the rest of the state. The people you mention here all too often represent more rural areas of the state, and not the big cities.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)have far more power over laws, and over far more people, quite simply. Ted Cruz can cause far more damage to people, including people outside of Texas, than the Mayor of El Paso can possibly fix.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)Ted can only do damage to the rest of the country if he votes with a majority, however that majority is comprised. The things that most affect a single state happen from the government within its bounds, not from the Federal government.
So yes, the Mayor of El Paso can do more for that part of the state than Ted can do damage to from Washington DC.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)Texas elects a great number of asshole Republicans and sends them to D.C. and Austin. Until we stop doing that we're fair game.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)I'd much rather be positive about our future than pessimistically negative.
Treant
(1,968 posts)AKA Pennsyltucky.
Mock. Please. We deserve it.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)For much the same reasons. Although, to be fair, it might have helped if TH hadn't been bleeding jobs since about 1970. That means at least two generations of the brighter ones leaving town just to get anything resembling a decent job. If you look closely enough, you can see signs that TH was once a fairly prosperous place. The people are decent and hard-working, if given half a chance.
But the town has been gutted economically. Think Flint MI.
xocet
(4,431 posts)cinematically tragic city:
Is the Indiana Theater still doing dollar movie night perchance?
Brigid
(17,621 posts)People in TH still laugh about that. 
No, the Indiana Theater doesn't do the dollar movie thing anymore. It gets used occasionally for art films or concerts, but that"s about it.
xocet
(4,431 posts)Almost everyone I knew who was in Terre Haute just loved to quote Steve Martin's line:
It did not even have to be in context.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)xocet
(4,431 posts)Is that an old phrase from before the 1970's?
I don't wholly understand what you mean to say.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)xocet
(4,431 posts)The other phrase about Terre Haute was so prevalent amongst the people I knew that I absorbed it without even seeing the movie.
I had better watch Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid sometime. Rumor has it that it is good....
Wortart (part of speech): Substantiv (noun), feminin (feminine)
http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Reinemachefrau
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)It actually looks like Steve Martin is playing opposite Vincent Price, Veronica Lake, etc. They copied sets, props and lighting.
Wait till you see him make his java for Ray Milland.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)
SkyDaddy7
(6,045 posts)It too is full of & completely controlled by Republican knuckleheads...Insult us PLEASE!!
Response to Logical (Reply #2)
LeftinOH This message was self-deleted by its author.
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)but I presently reside in Tennessee, the southern capital of the Teaparty Nation. Your insults strengthen our resolve and our firm belief in the rightness of our cause. Insult away.
hack89
(39,181 posts)dballance
(5,756 posts)I was born and raised in the South.
The use of the word "Ni***r" and the proliferation of Confederate flags on vehicles is omnipresent.
When people from the South stop being the racist assholes they are today I'll stop calling them out on it.
CherokeeDem
(3,736 posts)Then you aren't paying attention.
I'm a southerner as well.... and there is more to the people who live in the South than "The use of the word "Ni***r" and the proliferation of Confederate flags on vehicles."
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)just sayin'
Mnemosyne
(21,363 posts)CherokeeDem
(3,736 posts)true racism lives within.... I seriously doubt that is limited to the south.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/new-jersey-teen-suspended-flying-confederate-flag-pickup-truck-article-1.1737777
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2014/0417/Confederate-flag-flap-at-N.Y.-school-why-debate-is-hardly-settled-video
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)you don't see the difference?
not buying your argument...
CherokeeDem
(3,736 posts)There's a nut serving as governor of South Carolina (my home state, by the way). If you claim waving the flag is racism, then it doesn't matter who has it and who waves it and where. One can't simply dismiss an argument if it doesn't fit your view.
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)and just from a numbers points of view... where are most of the racists grouped in the United States?
One can't simply dismiss an argument if it doesn't fit your view.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)From the Southern Poverty Law Center:
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/hate-map
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)So there are some "hate groups"... and look.. states with higher population had more hate groups!
Now let's come up with a map of population of people NOT IN HATE GROUPS.
There are more people in Manhattan than ALL the hate groups combined.
Segregation and racism is still deeply rooted in the South. If you can't see it, you are not paying attention.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)I'm sorry you weren't satisfied with the answer to your question. And please DON'T SCREAM IN MY FACE. I don't appreciate it.
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)I guess actual numbers and stats confuse you.
So if 5 people start a Nazi Blog in MA (this is what qualifies as a Hate Group on your map), you are going to tell me there is a huge growing Facist problem in Boston?
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I'd call that which I specifically asked for "disingenuous" too (and maybe even in all caps were I feeling like a petulant third grader) should what I asked for implicityly invalidate my bias for everyone to see.
And as for people who hold opinions different than ours? Well, the most convenient thing to do is stamp our feet and yell, "if you can't see my position, you're not paying attention." Sure... it's part of our tempter tantrum, does nothing to frame our premise; but it does allow that feeling of self-validation we crave so much...
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)I find it fascinating how people who live in the South cannot accept what is going on in their local areas.
Just look at who is being elected in those areas.
They take it personally and react with self-defensive responses such as "but you have racism where you live too!"
They seem to ignore that fact how our government and laws are passed.
cordelia
(2,174 posts)You just don't happen to like what you see.
Pity.
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)For instance:
It states 44 hate groups in New Jersey. The first 15 are the "AC Skins"... with no references to what the group is or how many members... and for the ones that do have references: Nation of Islam is listed.. three times. The Nation of Islam is Louis Farrakhan.
Nation of Islam
Louis Farrakhan
Chicago, IL
He gave a speech or a meeting in NJ three times, even though his organization is from Chicago.
So out of the 44 number listed for New Jersey... 15 were a small gang of skinhead bikers... and a few Farrakhan speeches.
New Jersey is listed as a VERY HIGH AMOUNT of racism, based on that?
That is the stats you are using to show the amount of racism by state? really.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)If one group quarrels and splits in two, the SPLC counts two. If a member starts up a separate blog and calls himself grand leader of some new name he may be counted as a third.
They do great work and I'm absolutely on their side, but their counts need to be understood for what they are.
CherokeeDem
(3,736 posts)but really... you have just refuted your own argument ....
"states with higher population had more hate groups!"
Exactly the point I was making..... the South doesn't have the corner on the market of racism. There is racism in all populations and people voting against their best interests in all populations.
The one thing I will concede about the South is that it is more common to openly hear racial slurs in the South. Unfortunately, that behavior is still tolerated by some and that is horrid. Other parts of the country are somewhat better at hiding their feelings.
Nothing makes any racism right, and there is no question it comes to light more directly in the South, but if you don't recognize that the rest of the country is just as racist.... then you are not paying attention.
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)If a person gave a "speech".. in numerous cities.. each city was considered a "hate group event"...
That data is meaningless in counting the amount of actual racist people in that geographical area.
Another example I indicated in another post.. 15 skinheads, from 15 different cities.. that counted as 15 "Hate Groups".. the AC Skins, a skinhead white supremacist biker gang... it didn't count as ONE hate group.. they counted that as 15 "hate groups".. because they did some kind of march or vandalism in 15 different areas.. but they were all the same group.
That map indicated "incidents" of hate. What is defined as an incident was very thin.
CherokeeDem
(3,736 posts)of what comprises these hate groups.... and that doesn't change my opinion.
And I seriously doubt that the Southern Law Poverty Center can't count.
Hate and racism is hate and racism... no matter how it is couched or are you only isolating black hate to blame the South for? What about American Indian... I'm part Cherokee and believe me... some of my family has suffered from racism.... or the Chinese or the Hispanics, or any other group that isn't white.
Again, I would love to know why you continually choose to select the South as the most racist fools? There must be a reason... but you know what. I really don't care. Have your beliefs... they are yours to have. Just don't be surprised why they don't make sense to others.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)I recommend you check out the book Sundown Towns.
Look at this list and see what percentage are in the North: http://www.businessinsider.com/most-segregated-cities-census-maps-2013-4?op=1
Then read Sundown Towns. Most cities/towns/villages in the northern Midwest are all white, and that didn't just happen.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)--so I didnt have to.
Some people are so ignorant about racism. It's a national problem.
CherokeeDem
(3,736 posts)Why don't we change the argument if it doesn't fit your view?
To be honest, considering the highest concentration of population is in the Northeast, it could be there. I am not naïve, there are racists in the South. My point is there are racists everywhere and in my opinion, your statement that Southerners are fools is unfair and is not inclusive enough when it comes to racism.
I would prefer to see racism a thing of the past, but it isn't. The South was the last place to give up slavery but it was not the last repository of racism. To continue to purport that the South is the only area of the country harboring racism is puzzling and makes me wonder if there are other things about the South you don't like.
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)Ted Cruz
Rick Perry
Tom DeLay
Dick Armey
Phil Gramm
Jim Wright
Sam Rayburn
Ross Perot
Ken Lay
the Hunts
Jim Baker
John Connally
.. and this is just Texas...
CherokeeDem
(3,736 posts)None of us like these people... and you've certainly gone back a long way.
I think you might want to include people of the same ilk that have held office in other parts of the country. Texas has certainly had its share of loony toons but there have been some wonderful people who have come from Texas, and other parts of the South, as well. Maybe we should be concentrating on what is good about these areas, instead of touting the fools.
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)"loony toons"... these are the people whom Texans bring to Washington... and if affects the rest of the country.
Sure, please concentrate on the good.. politicians. Make me a list. Go back 50-60 years if you have to...
CherokeeDem
(3,736 posts)how do you measure the bad ones????
You are entirely missing my point... whether on purpose in order to continue this debate or for some other reason, I have no idea.
There have been many good people, politicians included, who have come from the South. You should already know who they are if you are so concerned, I don't need to list them. It's my opinion that it is easier for you to complain about the bad than concentrate on the good and vote the bad ones out of office.
I will go back to my original premise, to only call Southerners who do not vote their best interests fools, is leaving out a whole lot of fools all across this country.
With that, I will leave you to your opinion, hoping you will reconsider your statement.
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)No.. the original OP was "5 Reasons to Stop Talking Sh*t About People From the South and Midwest"
I can think of hundreds of reasons to talk shit about people from the South and the Midwest.
I can think of hundreds of reasons to talk shit about people from the North and the West.
CherokeeDem
(3,736 posts)I think we'd all be better off if we stopped pointing fingers and taking shit and do something about the issues we need to fix.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)States which allow discrimination in employment and housing against LGBT people. Is it ok with you that I don't like being discriminated against? Other States do it too. But the entire South does it.
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)Texas is first in the percentage of adults without health insurance.
Texans are first in the percentage of children without health insurance.
Texans are second in the number of households who suffer from hunger.
Texans are sixth in percentage of population living below poverty level.
Shall we move over a few hundred miles and start with Mississippi next... then we can keep going to Alabama and then the Florida panhandle... they all seem to be in the same geographic region... what a coincidence!
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)It's especially disappointing and odd because in some of those states you can get married but still be discriminated against with regard to employment, housing, etc. Just another reason LGBT non-discrimination laws need to be enacted at the federal level.
CherokeeDem
(3,736 posts)and where in anything I have said would you make that assumption? I despise discrimination in any form and have worked on issues for the LGBT community...
Just remember, this issue is a lightning rod for many churches and not just Southern as you have pointed out. Churches that preach Republican lies from the pulpit (been to a couple of those... hard to sit through the service) instill those feeling in many and it is very difficult to overcome.
I am proud to be a Southerner and in a few years hope to return to the South. (I currently live in Kentucky) and wherever I end up, I'll still be a Democrat and I will do what I can to change things. What else can we do?
heaven05
(18,124 posts)everywhere in america. I don't know if this 'numbers' game works. I live in a midwestern state and I know there are just as many racist little towns and police forces just like you'll find in Florida, Mississippi, Missouri, California, New Hampshire..............our racism problem is NOT regional, it is a NATIONAL problem that has been with us for generations. When will it end......that's anyone's guess.....mine is never. A racist has to be changed and with hate radio and hate media in general, good luck. The racist has to be extremely marginalized and/or shamed into realizing their error in judgement.
on edit: Racism cleanup is not just people at a party being mortified, in Anytown, USA, because 'Fred' from across the street just used the nword. Racism to me is the people at that party who are mortified because 'Julie' from down the street just used the term black people instead of their usual appellation of a certain minority. Racism is systemic in it's american form. The city administrators are racist, the city justice system is racist as well as the forces policing for the justice system of any particular town or burg. Until the systemic and institutionalized nature of our racist culture is cleaned up and rid of poisoned systems created in a time where racism was de rigueur, racism is here to stay.
CherokeeDem
(3,736 posts)I completely agree with this statement.... it many ways it's not the words racists use, it's the attitude.
Thanks for your post. I am in no way naïve about the shortcomings of an area of the country that I love, but as you point out, the South is not alone in suffering racists.
I agree with your last statement... none of this will change until the system changes.
elzenmahn
(904 posts)...I live in Central California, where in many parts, it culturally resembles the Midwest. My parents are from the Midwest, and I can tell you that openly racist attitudes are VERY prevalent in those (and these) parts, especially in the rural regions. Also, some of the worst white supremacist groups (such as Aryan Nation and others) were based in Idaho, Montana, and other areas within the northern Rockies.
Also, expect these attitudes to become more overt as the economy declines for most people and most of the wealth continues to be transferred to the top 1%.
We single out the South because of its historical record of slavery and as a hotbed of white supremacy. But, the Deep South is far from having any type of exclusivity as far as racism is concerned.
Starry Messenger
(32,380 posts)There's a paper on it, I'll rustle it up when I remember where I saw it.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)Oh, no kidding? And did she just walk into the governor's office and barricade the door one day, or did someone put her there?
I'm sure the good people of South Carolina are going to rectify that. Just like they took care of that Mark Sanford problem.
CherokeeDem
(3,736 posts)Let's see... are the good people of Wisconsin, Arizona, Ohio, and all the other states who have idiots as governor's any different than the people of South Carolina?
I don't think so and we can only hope Florida rectifies the serious blow they gave their own state and get rid of the biggest nutcase of all.
Please remember something, these people were not elected by a mandate.... there were votes cast against them. So once again to paint a state... any state with a broad brush and blame all the citizens is disingenuous. I have never voted for a Republican so don't go blaming me for Mitch McConnell, I want the bastard gone and so do a lot of other people in this state.
Please remember there are Democrats in all these states and instead of mocking them, calling them idiots or fools or racist, how about calling them people and fellow Democrats
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)
Thanks! You're a keeper.
CherokeeDem
(3,736 posts)Apparently I drag my soapbox wherever I go. I appreciate your kind words.
Take care!
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)If there was a vote tomorrow on getting rid of the confederate flag in SC, how do you think that vote would go?
CherokeeDem
(3,736 posts)I said I had one, given to me by a very good Democrat when I was a child.... and that I chose not to display it because it was offensive. You apparently missed my point... there was a time when the Confederate flag was commonplace, uprightly so, but not every one looked at it as a symbol of slavery but a remnant of the past. Nuanced perhaps, but there is a difference.
As for a vote on the flag in SC.... at this moment, I suspect it would be retained. Something we need to fix, don't you think? Better we fix it than pointing fingers.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)And until then, I can look at the majority of SC voters as ignorant, pigheaded fuckwads.
I'm sorry you have to live with them. But I'm not going to let you say "Oh, well, that's just them being them, you just have to live with it until they decide to change". Fuck that noise.
CherokeeDem
(3,736 posts)I love SC.... I just don't like the direction it's going in.
And don't put words in my mouth.... I never said that and I wouldn't say that... but I will say what I chose to say. Purporting I would say the statement you weren't going 'allow' me to say only dilutes your argument.
stage left
(3,296 posts)So says Sarah Palin wannabe--Nikki Hayley. Damn it, there is no Confederacy and no need for its flag. This is the United States of America. Makes as much sense to fly it as to fly the Union Jack. Way past time for it to come down.
Throd
(7,208 posts)TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)Show me a car dealer on the East or West Coast flying a 50 foot Confederate Flag.
Throd
(7,208 posts)elzenmahn
(904 posts)...then I concur. You see the white supremacy in pockets there. And the problem might not be as overt as the South, but the small-mindedness is still evident in some parts.
Needa Moment
(56 posts)of inland trash here in Riverside co. Calif too. Class difference occur very rapidly every 10 mi. inland one goes. Same parallels as a lot of places in Mexico. Go to work around lavish, come back after to reside in filth. Story's all to familiar.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)lunasun
(21,646 posts)One or two racists nuts . Flyover or do not go to the south because I do not have to and why would I go somewhere I have to watch my back all the time and fear trouble. Plus I do not know the culture and if I am stepping over the perceived line. Do I feel that way in NYC or Las Vegas or a lot of other places where I do not know the culture either -no. Am I buying a false inflated image? Not driving down a rural road in Miss or Alabam to find out.
I don't know if fundies would book a hotel on the Vegas strip despite there being good Christians nearby. Some people avoid places to visit like NYC or Chicago because it is associated with high crime . There is a lot of this among different groups not just people who flyover the south imo
Worried senior
(1,328 posts)we see some especially on pick up trucks.
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)because I have been told they are sippin' Chardonnay in Napa Valley wearing Confederate flags.. lol
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)--they may be a little less flagrant about it--but it sure is there!
F4lconF16
(3,747 posts)Same for Washington. I've even see them in downtown Seattle. Not sure where you are, but I'm jealous.
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)And the local restaurant (obviously, this was a number of years ago) had "Freedom Fries" on the menu.
(What's hilarious is that the same place still offered French Toast.)
CherokeeDem
(3,736 posts)You're missing the point....
You don't need a flag to be a racist.... so much racism and bigotry seems to be couched in the use of rhetoric to categorize people when the issue is wide spread. Did the good citizens of Ferguson need to see a symbol to recognize racism?
For your information I have a Confederate Flag, given to me when I was a child by Senator Ernest Fritz Hollings (he was governor then). A Democrat. I don't fly it, but I did it wouldn't mean I was a racist. I wouldn't display it because I have respect for my fellow human beings, regardless of their color or where they live.
The problem is that too many people choose to toss off others by lumping everyone of a certain geographic location, ilk, political bent, whatever defining issue they choose to use and never look past their narrow view.
I am tired of the constant bashing of Southerners on this board. It's apparent that many must think all white people in the South grew up on the plantation. Silly me... last time I looked there weren't THAT many plantations, and I didn't grow up on one.
So just sayin'.... broad statements never tell the entire story.
TNNurse
(7,537 posts)TimeToGo
(1,443 posts)Confederate flags are bad, but seriously there is a ton of racism in the north and in the east and in the west . . .
dballance
(5,756 posts)I grew up in the South where the n-word was regularly used. Where people talked about "Jewing someone down" on a price.
I understand racism. I saw it displayed almost every day when I was growing up.
There were rail-road tracks through the middle of my home town. On one side was the majority white population. On the other side was what was called "Colored Town." Yep, "Wrong Side of the Tracks" actually has a historical meaning.
The display of guns in gun racks and the Confederate Battle Flag everywhere have less to do with being proud of one's ancestors than it has to do with reminding African Americans to remember their place.
raccoon
(32,381 posts)may not even be consciously aware that's what they're doing.
TimeToGo
(1,443 posts)If you write such a statement, you can't blame me for thinking you didn't know anything.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)
jen63
(813 posts)
fishwax
(29,346 posts)Of course, racism can exist even apart from that flag.
Inkfreak
(1,695 posts)just sayin....
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)Then you've never been to Worcester or Southie.
For openers.
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)Go ahead.. I challenge you. You have 24 hours.
Go take a photo of ANY Confederate flag anywhere in Massachusetts.
Let's see how long it takes you to find one...
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)that's a challenge I will unfortunately not be able to accept. Lived in Boston for 40 years before last August, minus two in San Francisco and four in Worcester for college. You're just going to have to take my word for it, especially regarding the last few years: the sudden popularity of what passes for "country" music led to more than a few stars-and-bars deployments in town. When I worked the door at the bar off Boylston on nights when "country" music concerts took place at Fenway or at the Garden, there were more than a few cars and trucks that drove by with Confederate flag decals, rear-window displays or license plate brackets.
Take it or leave it, as you will, but I'm right on this and you're wrong. Saw it with my own two eyes.
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)Only need to show me ONE!
Of course there is someone in every town in the US that has a Confederate Flag... but to make they case they are everywhere in the Northeast is ridiculous.
I have lived in Maine, Vermont, Mass. (college as well as business owner in Boston), grew up in Connecticut... lived in NJ, NY, Virginia and Florida. Short stays in Las Vegas and Los Angeles. Also have driven through every state for work... except Alaska. I have been around.
Every other car in Florida had a Confederate Flag... one in ten thousand in New England states....
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)But you said "never."
One in ten thousand is still one.
Try to stick to your own script.
P.S. "They're," not "There."
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)You KNOW that I didn't mean there wasn't a few in every town in America.
But you make it seem like you just walk outside, and there.. there over there.. all over the place!
They are no way as common as in the South.
Take the challenge William. I will give you an entire week! 7 days.. let's see how many photos of a Confederate flag you can find in New England.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)Half my family is from Alabama. I know the score.
You said it never happened up north. Check the headline of your post. All I said was "You're wrong." Because you are.
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)and so far you are wrong.. because you said you could show me a photo. You haven't.
Ever seen anything like this in New England.. California?
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)I did not read your other replies. Why should I? I only paid attention on our conversation.
Your original reply never required photographic evidence, and I explained why I can't take any Boston pictures. I'm 75 miles away.
Have fun storming the castle.
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)seems appropriate from someone who writes hit pieces on Obama.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)Good one. You get a free bowl of soup with that?
MADem
(135,425 posts)This is a review of a bar in Bedford (GOP stronghold) NH. See the rebel flag on the wall in the pic?
NASCAR is popular in northern NE and a lot of that stuff "comes with."
Confederate grave in Maine (a curiosity, really):
There's also a town that got (by mistake) a statue of a confederate soldier instead of a union one. They kept it--think it's around Kittery or thereabouts.
Here's another flag fuss:
http://www.dailybulldog.com/db/features/letter-stops-restaurants-confederate-battle-flag-display/
Given that South Boston is not the white bastion it once was (hasn't been for years) I wouldn't expect a car even in that neighborhood to last long with a sticker like that. Same with Worcester, which is very racially diverse and has been for the last couple of decades. I can't speak to western MA, I haven't any real experience in that area. I'm sure there are enclaves in MA where that display might be tolerated but I don't frequent them.
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)We have seen 3 bigfoot since 2012!
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)Not that any number would satisfy you. Should we send out a DU crew onto the highways and byways to create an album for you? Nah...
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/05/25/in_walpole_rebels_pride_still_sparks_a_fight/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/03/confederate-flag_n_1737535.html
http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/breaking-news/index.ssf/2013/09/confederate_flags_increasing_a.html
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/07/ohio-tea-party-member-flies-confederate-flag-during-racist-rant-at-school-board-meeting/
http://www.indianapolisrecorder.com/news/features/article_1c7f2bd1-13d1-512c-b46c-2e0c06980f36.html
http://www.wiscnews.com/news/local/article_ec984f30-6661-11e1-bc9e-0019bb2963f4.html
https://www.quinnforillinois.com/illinois-leaders-call-apology-after-bruce-rauner-embraces-supporter-wearing-confederate-flag
http://www.post-gazette.com/opinion/letters/2013/08/22/Confederate-flag-wavers-here-proudly-display-their-ignorance/stories/201308220211
http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2014/03/aclu_defends_suspended_hamilton_students_right_to_fly_confederate_flag_on_truck_in_steinert_high_lot.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/long-island-teens-expelled-displaying-confederate-flag-article-1.1759772
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/06/bay-city-nazi-confederate-flags-michigan_n_3398549.html
http://www.wday.com/content/perham-man-defends-confederate-flags-campground
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)look at the dates in your blue links.. first one from 2010...
oh wait, I see one from 2014....
They are everywhere... but you can't seem to find one yourself. Go ahead, for the next 7 days.. see how many YOU personally can find.
And your blue links actually PROVE my point, because those articles point out the outrage, thus making it a news piece.
You don't see the Confederate flag making news in the South...
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)Game over. You lost, Charlie Brown.
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)did you use Google for your blue links?
They are every where!
Not one photo yet.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)Just wishing they were in the Land of Cotton, or something.
http://www.abc57.com/home/top-stories/Rebel-flag-rebellion--132108393.html?m=y
liberal N proud
(61,194 posts)North, South, East or West.
I have seen them from all states.
Hosnon
(7,800 posts)I see more Confederate flags on that one road trip than I do the rest of the year in the South.
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)from his headache rack.
Liberalynn
(7,549 posts)BUT I have seen plenty of confederate flag decals in the windows of pick up trucks, and bumper stickers saying "no bama" and I have heard born and bred New Yorkers saying things like "the Kenyan in the White House," about President Obama. So IMHO Racism is a nation wide problem period.
hack89
(39,181 posts)having lived in all parts of the country, I am always astounded how segregated the North is. Boston is a prime example.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Or Ohio, or Indiana, or Illinois.
dballance
(5,756 posts)I will say that racist behavior is part of Southern Culture though.
Since I was born and raised in the South you cannot say I'm some NY, CA or PNW liberal. I'm from the South. I lived there and witnessed the bigotry.
In the South, identifying people as "Us" or "Them" is endemic.
I lived in a neighborhood where when an African-American family moved in a number of white families sold their houses and moved out.
I am well paying attention. I've tried to start in my own backyard since I can't change the whole world.
CherokeeDem
(3,736 posts)Any country or region that has embraced slavery has the issue as part of their culture. My objection is the fact so many people choose to isolate their rage over the mistreatment of people of color by attacking the South, as if it is the only area that had slaves. Slavery is horrid but it has been practiced for thousands of years. It may be part of our culture but it is also part of everyone's. To be honest, I saw more racist behavior when I moved to Lexington, KY than I saw in Aiken, SC where I grew up.
if we continue to label ourselves as a racist culture then we are adding to the problem. We are no more racist than any other part of the US. The difference is it was more accepted in the South due to slavery and therefore, more open.
You are right, no one person can change the world, but it's a start.
dballance
(5,756 posts)I see racist behavior all over the USA. It ranges from the subtle to the overt.
I see people look uncomfortable when and African-American family walks into a diner/restaurant that is full of white people. I see the KKK still spreading their message of hate.
These attitudes know no borders.
Revanchist
(1,375 posts)
http://www.vox.com/2014/6/20/5827646/this-map-shows-every-kkk-chapter-in-the-united-states
http://www.mainememory.net/artifact/23229
While the New England states never owned many slaves we excelled at rounding them up and selling them to the south.
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)That means the majority of the people who live there have common values that repel ideas like the KKK.
Now go ahead and tell me your explanation on why the South and the Fly-Over states consistently vote for Republicans, and their tolerance for the Confederate Flag, gut nuttery and the overall insane behavior we see in the Teabaggers.
Is is just a coincidence? Or is it part of "that" culture. Or are they just being fooled.
I have a job that has allowed me to "live" for 6-12 month at a time in various states all around the country. And in that time I have "lived" in 12 states. No need to say which ones, but they are ALL MY STATES. All part of the Unites States. And I have no problem criticizing any of them.
Revanchist
(1,375 posts)because I looked up a several states on wiki for governor and senate races and I see a healthy mix of both D's and R's among the winners, in both the south and the north (Governor Mitt Romney ring a bell?). I don't believe the congressional districts are truly representative due to gerrymandering (both parties are guilty of this).
Regarding presidential elections, it seems that when there is a southerner on the ticket you win more southern states, so we need to ask ourselves, what is it with the Democratic message that isn't resonating in the south on a national level?
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)I mean, back in the 90's, a friend and I were driving from Maryland to Florida, and we stopped in SC to visit some old friends of his. I was SHOCKED at how casually they threw around racial slurs in public places, even right in front of black people. They thought nothing of it. And no one around them did either. That's just not a culture I've experienced anywhere else, though no doubt there are pockets of it up north.
Response to dballance (Reply #3)
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cordelia
(2,174 posts)
shenmue
(38,597 posts)I am far from perfect. But I don't call people those things. I don't say flyover country. I didn't even hear that expression until a few years ago, and I grew up in one of those big evil cities in the Northeast.
I absolutely agree that we should have respect and love for folks from the South and Midwest. Nothing wrong with that. They are not any less cool or less American or what.
But here's a fact: Most of the population of the country lives on either the West Coast or the East Coast. Almost every one of those states has tens of millions of people in it, and they're growing all the time. I mean, that's just true.
So, can't we all just be America and be cool with it? Please?
I like people. Or, I want to.
I think I'll just crawl under a table and die now.
CherokeeDem
(3,736 posts)A voice of reason and much appreciated.
shenmue
(38,597 posts)
Jamastiene
(38,206 posts)I like your attitude much better than the myopic attitude of so many people who think certain things only exist in certain areas and that their area is somehow perfect. I'd rather you NOT crawl under any tables or die.
shenmue
(38,597 posts)
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)and some huge patchs of that form megalopolises on the coasts? The Washington to Bostom is the biggest such cluster, California has two big megalopolises that almost cluster into one...
There are a pretty significant number of people living from Pittsburg through Detroit to Chicago... they just don't merge into a mega megalopolis....
Seems to me that in some ways 'coasts' is as conveniently reality free a shorthand as 'fly-over', the "coast" shorthand tends to emphasize the influence of the megalopoly, at least 4 of which are coastal. All the mega megalopolises tend to be high profile over a broad range of features that show up in the news, but the NE and Central and Southern California more so than the others.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Seriously, I love Midwesterners. Lived there. Love them.
Southerners? Bunch of fools. Lived there too. It's not a question of flyover for me. It's a question of having stayed far too long. People don't have to be that dumb. Lots of good people in the South, but they let the corrupt idiots run all over them. It's a shame.
CherokeeDem
(3,736 posts)Southerners? Bunch of fools.
Seriously?????
I'm a Southerner and I have never allowed anyone to run over me. These generalizations need to stop. They are not solving anything...
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I will apologize.
I'm sure you are not a fool because you are probably one who votes for his/her interests and not for the dumb propaganda that passes for news and culture in certain parts of the country.
CherokeeDem
(3,736 posts)I would only suggest that you consider the validity of your statement...
I am going to assume that you feel anyone who votes against their interests is a fool. Then fools are certainly not limited to the Southern US. The last time I looked, people all over this county can be called fools by your definition. I think you should start calling the North, East, and West fools, as well. We Democrats are all about equal opportunity, aren't we????
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I'd like to see them in the minority in the South too.
The South has some of the poorest states. But they vote for some of the most conservative politicians. That makes utterly no sense.
Some time ago, a person from Northern Florida called us out of the blue for information about some crazy political conspiracy theory he had. We did not know this person from Adam.. It was the strangest thing. The number showed it was not one of our friends pranking us. Southerners. I don't need to tell you. If you live there, you know what I am talking about.
And yet some of our greatest authors are from the South. Faulkner and Mark Twain come to mind. It's baffling though how Southerners can vote for some of the people they send to Congress. Just baffling.
We had Schwarzenegger. That was bad enough.
cordelia
(2,174 posts)Thanks ever so. Sarcasm in case you missed.
And for your information... never mind.
People like you aren't worth my time.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)That's why I don't like the South. 1950s. Segregation. Jim Crow everywhere. Every part of life was tainted with antebellum self-righteousness. What utter immorality. When I see the politicians that are elected by Southerners today, I think "Nothing has changed. The world has passed them by." Having lived in the South during years that were important in forming my social consciousness, I can read between the lines and decipher the coded words of racism in what is said by so many white Southern politicians. I am white. The experience of Southern racism scarred my life experience. It was shocking to me. When I was in college, I traveled by bus from the North to the South at Christmas and for summer vacation. The poverty, the shotgun houses with undernourished children on the porches, the sights and smells of segregation and racial prejudice and white supremacy -- it was awful. I remember the segregated waiting rooms in the bus stations, the separate restrooms, the exaggeration of differences that don't really even exist. What foolishness. I just cannot respect it.
I'm sure you are not that way. But I feel certain you know what I am talking about.
CherokeeDem
(3,736 posts)growing up in the South was so difficult. I can understand why you feel the way you do. I was fortunate to have had a better experience as a child growing up in South Carolina. I wish you had as well.
I remember all the things you do and questioned my father why the blacks went into the back of the dime store where they had to sit at a separate counter in the rear. Why they had separate schools, and what is that stone pedestal on the street in Augusta GA? My dad told me it was the place where slaves were tethered and sold at auction. I was eight and that offended my very young soul.
I remember everything you do... the problem is that poverty and undernourished children could be anywhere... Aiken, SC where I was born, the mountains of Eastern Kentucky where my parents were born, or Buffalo, NY or Scottsdale, AZ. I am part Cherokee and I dare you to find a place more horrid than a reservation.
I am sorry that your memories are unhappy. I hope you have found a place where you are happy.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)That is over 50 years ago. We wised up and now have a Democratic governor.
The demographics in our state have changed drastically since 1974. And our political representatives reflect it. Two Democratic senators both with safe seats. My congressman is one of the most liberal in the House.
In the 1960s, grass-roots Democrats in California led a sort of revolt to give power to local Democratic Clubs, power equal to the state organization and the representation of elected officials. The Democratic Party was reformed. We still went Republican in some elections and have had to deal with some very conservative developments. But we are way out of the league of southern and some midwestern states.
We have emission standards on our cars. I suspect there are more Priuses and other low gas mileage cars in California than any other state. We have a very sensitive, difficult environment and we cherish it. Los Angeles bans flimsy grocery market plastic bags. We live on the ocean (I don't literally live on the beach, but we are within 30 miles of the Pacific) and we take our responsibility to care for it seriously. I'd like to see other states get as fired up about the environment as we are in California.
We raised our minimum wage in Los Angeles. Let's see other states do likewise.
Southerners should be looking to California for ideas. California is setting a far from perfect but fairly good example for the rest of the country. Sorry. But states that elect the likes of Ron Paul, Sessions, the Texas Republicans, etc. need to think about changing their attitudes and ways of life.
cordelia
(2,174 posts)ever ever been, and that there are no problems there at all. Ever.
Excuse me while I see if there's someone around here from California that can help learn me how to wear shoes.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)We elected Jerry Brown and are about to do it again. We are approaching a time when we will have no racial majority. That's good. It's really good. A lot of problems go away. I'm white, and I can tell you that when racism becomes less important, society improves.
Response to JDPriestly (Reply #112)
appalachiablue This message was self-deleted by its author.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)So far, we Californians learned from our mistake about Reagan.
Southern liberals need to step up to the plate and start talking sense to their neighbors and families.
Bill Clinton signed the Telecommunications Bill that permitted so much media consolidation.
Reagan and Republicans did their parts to bring the country and especially our media down, but Clinton should not have signed that bill. It has been disastrous for our so-called "free" press. Our press is about as free as the medieval serfs were.
Response to JDPriestly (Reply #93)
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Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Since you called me a fool, can I call you an idiot?
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)exceptions and not a fool. I'm sure you know what I am talking about. Some of the members of Congress elected from Southern states are unbelievably foolish, cunning and conniving, but foolish in terms of what is good for the country.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)no matter how much harder we have to fight.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)That would be a great improvement in the record of the South and improve the region's reputation as far as I am concerned.
That's a big race. Grimes is the better candidate in every respect. We shall see.
A Little Weird
(1,754 posts)It's demoralizing enough to be a liberal in a conservative area but then to be subjected to scorn from the left as well really sucks. I think it's one reason that so many people are disengaged from politics.
japple
(10,459 posts)those who live in the South, Midwest. It doesn't matter that we have to work twice as hard to bring the truth to light and to uphold progressive, democratic principles in our daily activities.
japple
(10,459 posts)inbred rednecks, KKKers, hate groups, snake-handlers, possum-eating ignorant holy roller church-going Duck-Dynasty worshipers, who shoot everything for sport. There are certainly people like that in the South, but they are also present in every community in the nation.
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)In the Coastal areas, it is heavily populated, and you don't see a lot of hunting.. or duck-dynasty camo idiots. It is definitely regional.
japple
(10,459 posts)live. They are not solely in the South. They are everywhere. And welcome to DU! 
japple
(10,459 posts)the most heinous gun massacres in recent history occurred?
hack89
(39,181 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)marions ghost
(19,841 posts)
kentauros
(29,414 posts)is that there's a contingent of DUers that will latch onto a handful of our worst shortcomings, and then announce that these are what define us implicitly. They have no concept of "Home" and will dismiss such sentimentality because it doesn't back up their need to hate us.
Texas is my Home, and what makes it the place I want to continue to call Home probably can't be put into words, or not into words that will be taken seriously by the haters. Well, that's their problem, not mine
BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)..a Con-Man, a Crook, a Shyster and a Criminal as their Governor AGAIN.
I WILL call them out on it.
At least the populace in the northeast and the west coast elects normal, non-nutty, non-stupid criminals ONCE in a while.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)And we get this no matter who wins!!!!!!!!! What other state can claim this.
DrBulldog
(841 posts)The south and the Midwest plains are truly the "dumb" areas of the United States and lag badly the leaders of the nation, the west coast and the northeast, in so, so many categories. This situation has accrued over many decades and won't be equalized anytime soon. I can only hope that the relatively few cognitive people that live in those states move to the enlightened areas for the sake of their children if not necessarily for themselves.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Jenoch
(7,720 posts)year we lead the nation in average ACT college entrance tests, I think Wisconsin is second. Your stereotyping says a lot about you and litrle about the midwest.
Lucky Luciano
(11,858 posts)...thereby leaving the places they left less enlightened.
Treant
(1,968 posts)I also don't tend to make kissy-kissy with people who are trying to kill me. Potentially quite literally.
If scorn is the worst I throw at states that resist marriage equality, voting rights, and simple fair treatment, they should consider themselves fortunate.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)Response to DrBulldog (Reply #17)
Name removed Message auto-removed
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Drag enlightenment to these "dumb" areas.
Republicans aren't worried about their long-term political future because of hispanics in CA. They're worried because of what's happening to states like NC: The big cities are becoming bright-blue, while the rural bastions are slowly shrinking. Right now the Republicans win the turnout game, which lead to some heavy gerrymandering to help them hold power. But as the populations shift that won't last forever.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I don't care what anyone says.
shenmue
(38,597 posts)Very thick. Thicker than Chicago pizza. Served right alongside the Neapolitan or thin style in NY. Some people forget there are two kinds of NY pizza. If you don't like it, that's your call, but there is more than one kind.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)
Unfortunately I had to swear off all that stuff, years ago.
Back when my metabolism was not to be trifled with, though.....
Liberalagogo
(1,770 posts)I used to get angry about Texas bashing, but I can't defend this place anymore, even though there are a substantial number of good people here. I remember the days when if you said you were from Texas, people were impressed and interested. Not any more. After two consecutive dumbfucks as governor, with one of them being appointed President, it's pretty much impossible to love Texas, even if Jim Parsons, aka Dr. Sheldon Cooper, is from Texas, and my home town, AND went to the same university I did.
Rozlee
(2,529 posts)I also remember a time when Texas seemed to be taking bold progressive steps. Now, it's become one of the most regressive states in the Union. Conservatives launched a successful coup d`etat and instigated themselves into every branch of government from school boards and town municipalities to the state legislature and governorship. Their stealth campaign has been repeated in almost every state, but only really succeeded in the Southern states. The recent victory in keeping the voter ID law in Texas is the biggest blow to reversing the trend. They know that we minorities are a threat to their power structure by demographics alone and they'll do anything in their power to disenfranchise us from exerting that power. If my family and husband's family didn't live here, I swear I'd move to a more progressive state. But, I don't really want to cut and run either. These bastards need people to stand up to them. They're running scared or they wouldn't be taking these extra measures to steal elections.
Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)
iandhr This message was self-deleted by its author.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)Fortunately, my grandparents, who raised me until my parents came back from WWII, weren't two of them.
I now live in a very red part of a very blue state, and I think the percentage of dumbasses who live in my county is higher than it was in TN back in the late 40's/early 50's.
My two male cousins, both much younger than I and both well-to-do farmers there, are conservative republicans. Those boys aren't racists but they are very definitely classists. They have nothing but contempt for the tea party/redneck wing of the party who they regard as useful idiots who can be manipulated into voting for lower taxes for the wealthy. Their sister is a full professor of European history at a public university in KY and very leftist in her views on social and economic policy.
There are stupid people everywhere and I don't think the percentages vary all that much. But IMO the problem is that the stupid people who live in the remainder of the US are just stupid but the stupid people who live in the south are really really stupid, and in a way that makes it easy to stereotype them. Probably because of all the Jesus crap they mix in with their innate stupidity.
valerief
(53,235 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Doesn't offend me.
NutmegYankee
(16,477 posts)I didn't.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)that I "talk shit" about people based upon their region to begin with.
Which I don't.
EEO
(1,620 posts)RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)If I lived Georgia, I'd have to vote for a candidate who has been endorsed by Zell Miller.
If I lived in Louisiana, I'd have to vote for a candidate with a proud history of backing Big Oil.
And don't even get me started on religion, evolution, and same-sex marriage.
Sorry, but no thanks!
(By the way, despite all these major misgivings, I strive to refrain from "talking sh*t" about Southerners, especially those on DU. On the contrary, you have my profound sympathy.)
Lucky Luciano
(11,858 posts)Throd
(7,208 posts)Jamastiene
(38,206 posts)I think a lot of them are talking about the right wing assholes down here, but also don't understand the hideous poverty that keeps many of us here either. They can't fathom the idea that being raised in an area where Walmart is the major employer might make it a bit hard to move. Money does matter. I would have loved to have moved when I was younger and still had some life left in me. Poverty forced me to stay here and being surrounded by asshole right wing redneck types has made me mean and ornery. I'm staying to fight another day. I love that the courts are telling TPTB in states like my state, NC, that they have to let gay people get married. To me, that is worth staying for, just to smirk at the assholes who voted to take my rights away.
MerryBlooms
(12,237 posts)I don't believe it will ever happen.
Someone somewhere will always dehumanize others because it's the only gratifying aspect of their personality.
Tikki
(15,130 posts)Tikki
DamnYankeeInHouston
(1,365 posts)I couldn't get a job. I was working five part time jobs in Cambridge when the Houston school district recruited me and 29% of my graduating class. My family was horrified when I moved to Texas and I still get loads of grief. I wanted my own classroom. I did not want to be an aide or substitute having to mooch off relatives. When I first moved here, teachers offered to put me up no questions asked. People are extremely friendly and helpful. I like to say hi to people on the street in Boston just to see them recoil in terror. Life here is easy. I own my own home and business. Neither would be possible back in the northeast. The cities in Texas are true blue. We have a gay mayor. This is a science city with the Med Center and NASA. Houston beat both New York and L.A. as the most diverse city in the country. Our Children's Museum is number one. Come visit in May when we have the Art Car Parade. It's spectacular.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)
(as I sit here in an engineering office, waiting on my supervisor to show up... probably stuck in traffic!)
marions ghost
(19,841 posts) Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)It's not states, it's urban versus rural.
Houston, Austin, San Antonio, El Paso and the Rio Grande Valley are all liberal. Even Dallas and Fort Worth are coming along. Dallas has always been a lot more conservative than Houston. The John Birchers used to be quite active there and it's still pretty conservative. But it's better than it used to be. Fort Worth looked like a lot of nothing the last time I was there but they have three really good museums and the Van Cliburn piano competition every few years. And there are a whole lot of smaller college towns with liberals because the state school system is quite large. San Antonio used to be run by the minority of rich white people who lived on the north side, but Henry Cisneros was their first Hispanic mayor, and since then the Hispanics have gotten more powerful.
I believe that Houston is now majority Hispanic. It's incredibly diverse if you know what neighborhoods to go to. There's a Vietnamese hood and a Chinese hood. They've made the street signs bilingual in those areas.
As a music freak, I've taken music lessons and gone to various types of concerts since I was a small child, and almost everyone who was a big-name act in any kind of music comes through Houston. So I saw a lot of famous people in classical, opera, blues, rock and jazz starting in the sixties and seventies. And it's still got plenty of culture. It used to just be rich people throwing their oil money at the symphony, opera and ballet, but they weren't educated about music. They were extremely conservative and just wanted their Beethoven and Brahms.
Back in the mid 60s, when I was going to the symphony as a child, they didn't want any Carl Nielsen or Gustav Mahler played. Gustav Mahler died in 1911. He's considered to be Late Romantic period music. That was too radical. And they fired Andre Previn for playing twentieth-century classical music in the twentieth century. They couldn't handle Stravinsky or Prokofiev because that was radical. Ooh! Strange rhythms! Strange harmony! Dissonance! I learned about 20th century classical music from playing it in college and community orchestras, not from hearing it at the professional symphony.
Now the performing arts have grown up and they did their first avant-garde Wagner production this spring as the first year of the Ring Cycle with Das Rheingold which Houston Grand Opera is doing. What was interesting was that the old people hated it and the young people loved it. They had 12 25 foot tall by 15 foot wide LCD screens on stage in two rows of 6, one on top of the other, to project the backdrops on it. It was definitely strange and interesting. Spectacularly weird.
The other thing you have to know when you live in Houston, besides the fact that it's mind-bogglingly big geographically and the traffic is insane, is that you have to drive like a son of a bitch to get out of the way of the other maniacs on the freeway, or you'll get killed. It helps if you have a car with lots of acceleration. You have to drive like a nut to keep your Native Houstonian Card. 
As DamnyankeeinHouston said, there are lots of art outlets, and the Art Car Parade is the most famous part of it. There are lots of old warehouses and factories that are subleased for artists' spaces, a film festival called WorldFest, and plenty of art galleries and exhibit spaces. There is also an Art Car Museum. There are diverse theater groups such as the Ebony Opera Guild and Teatro Bilingue of Houston. I have appeared in one play at TBH. Most of the plays are in English with a lot of Spanish thrown in. They also have Day of the Dead exhibits and such. The Da Camera Society promotes chamber music and jazz. Their first two concerts of the season were Chick Corea and the Saint Lawrence String Quartet, which are artists in residence at Stanford.
If you want to insult Southern rednecks, go right ahead. Racism is not confined to the South, it's just socially acceptable in the rural parts of Texas. The racists have to be mad at somebody and it's minorities, and the President, and whoever else is not just like them. I think that's a terrible way to live. They could take that energy and learn something or do something constructive but they are ignorant and proud of it. I avoid those people.
My parents and I worked hard for the Democratic party and were very active. My parents tried to get Henry B. Gonzalez nominated for Governor way back in 1958, at the State Democratic Convention. I was a delegate to the State Convention in 1980 and was a Teddy Kennedy delegate that year. Because that was radical, my precinct chairman refused to speak to me. So the problem is not the Democrats of the past. Sometimes they've gotten their act together and elected Ann Richards, but since then the Republicans and their dark money have taken over and the Democrats don't even run a candidate in the rural areas because it's hopeless.
whistler162
(11,155 posts)Throd
(7,208 posts)Many parts of California aren't as progressive and tolerant as some seem to think.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)In this case it's not even so much urban vs. rural - larger inland cities like Bakersfield and Fresno lean pretty heavily conservative, while sparsely populated coastal areas like Mendocino and Humboldt tend to lean liberal (pro-marijuana, anti-Prop. 8, etc.).
Brigid
(17,621 posts)It's amazing.
JI7
(93,561 posts)and at least in southern california/los angeles area there are too many asses trying to impress others with stupid shit.
WhiteTara
(31,257 posts)so that you won't want to live here. This is a little piece of paradise that needs to be protected from overpopulation.
And of course, there are complete morans who live here and they have businesses called Shadow Enterprises and Invictus and sell guns and ammo.
So, as one Coaster to another, just fly over; we who have fled the coasts, like our little paradise tucked away in a tiny little mountain and since it's a small space, keep flying, bro, keep flying.
stage left
(3,296 posts)I am surrounded by idiots who consistently vote against their own interests. This is the state that gave the world(just recently)Lindsey Graham. In the past it gave the world that most hypocritical of racists--Strom Thurmond. Some of its addled residents, befuddled by guns and God and possibly oxycotin, just elected Appalachian trail hiker and ladies man Mark Sanford to the First District. I never knew before that the trail extended to South America. I live, Isis help me, in the district that keeps electing the cotton topped yahoo, Trey Gowdy to Congress. Everyday I see good old boys with gun racks in trucks emblazoned with the Confederate Battle Flag and the Stars and Stripes just below it. My Governor is Nikki Hayley. Someone on DU characterized her as the Carolina Grifter just the other day. I laughed my ass off through my tears. Whatever you use to bash SC, I can probably come up with something to top it. Or at least equal it . I know when somebody talks about those ignorant yahoos from SC, they're not talking about me. They're talking about the people who vote for people like Sanford because God. Who support no regulation because Guns. Who are still fighting the damned Civil War. War of Northern Aggression, my southern ass. Therefore, I'm not offended. Bash away.
stopwastingmymoney
(2,347 posts)Yours wins the prize for me. So funny, you're a really good writer, thanks for the lol.
stage left
(3,296 posts)And thanks.
Hulk
(6,699 posts)I'm one who often tosses out the comments, "it's Texas, what do you expect?"..or "welcome to the South.." when small minded, racist atrocities occur. Yes, it happens in the north too. Yes, it happens in progressive pockets around the world. But now reality and facts come into play....it is much more common to hear some offensive, backward, racist, evangelical bible-thumping stunt raising it's ugly head out of the South...much more common.
I'm trying to think of the key players for stupid-backward thinking fear mongering; and names like Louie gohmert, Michelle Bachmann, Ted Cruz, Rick perry, Marsha Blackburn, Steve king, Jefferson sessions, Jim inhofe, Tom Coburn, rand Paul, ms. Lindsey graham, mark Sanford, joe Wilson....and the list goes on and on. Where are they from? You guessed it. Sadly, these clowns ARE representatives of the people from those districts and states.
I rest my case.
I also realize there are MILLIONS of good progressive thinking Americans living in those places. It has to be awful to be surrounded by so much stupid.
bongo_x
(49 posts)Duncan Hunter
Sarah Palin
John McCain
Orly Taitz
Dick Cheney
Tim Donnelly
Sharron Angle
Donald Trump
Laura Ingraham
Bill O'Reilly
Glenn Beck
Ann Coulter
Dinesh D'Souza
Michael Savage
Antonin Scalia
Samuel Anthony Alito, Jr
Bryan Fischer
Aaron Klein
Grover Norquist
Cliven Bundy
Dennis Prager
Michael Steele
James O'Keefe
Laura Schlessinger
Sean Hannity
And some of them even represent MORE than themselves. We can go tit for tat on individuals forever. My point is the Congressmen and women represent millions who sent them to Washington. There is a bit of a difference from pointing out a few dozen known crazies from outside the South and Midwest, but good try.
New Orleans Strong
(212 posts)A city that has my heart like no other. GWB was on his way to have birthday cake with John McGrumpy. It sucked -
TNNurse
(7,537 posts)You can make derogatory comments about the group to which you belong. You can make fun of your own. I am a short white woman who has lived her entire life in the South. I am a liberal Democrat by birth and by raising. I am college educated and have traveled a little. I experienced the desegregation of my high school in 1965 in GA. My mother was the school librarian. We met in the afternoon in the car and compared how many times we had been called "N...... Lover" each day. The high score won.
I am sure I have relatives who harbor strong positive feelings toward our Confederate ancestry. I can take you to the grave of my Confederate Great Grandfather, not with pride and celebration, but he was my ancestor.
I can make short jokes, I can call people "crackers", I don't but I can. I can describe low-life white-trash southern behavior. I do however know that these behaviors are not exclusive to the south.
IT IS PROBABLY BEST TO NOT MAKE GENERALIZATIONS ABOUT PEOPLE BECAUSE HOW THEY LOOK AND WHERE THEY LIVE.
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)And will never ever willingly return. I feel for democrats toughing it out there.
DAMANgoldberg
(1,278 posts)"American by birth,
Southern by the grace of God"
Is the way I live, despite living in a schizophrenic state with bad R leadership. Jesse Helms BITD and Pat McCrory and Thom Tillis today. They will be a passing phase and NC will return to solid leadership again, even if it's biased against the "State of Mecklenburg".
stonecutter357
(13,045 posts)
Marr
(20,317 posts)I mean Jesus, national politicians make ads openly mocking the northeast and the west coast, and people all over the media and political establishment happily refer to the midwest and the south as 'the real America'.
The truth is I never hear people talk about the south or the midwest here in California. When I was in the south, however, I heard all sorts of bullshit about 'northeastern liberals' and 'the left coast weirdos'.
bongo_x
(49 posts)It seems to me there are two kinds of people who like to make these kind of bigoted generalizations;
1. Those who have never been to these places and/or have no idea what the hell they are talking about, but really like to have scapegoats. Somehow they think they are different from everyone else who likes to pass judgement on whole groups of people.
2. The other group are people who know the areas and might have grown up there. But when they talk about all these terrible people and things and say "The South" or "The Midwest" I’m pretty sure they mean "my family" or "my in laws".
LostInAnomie
(14,428 posts)... but I think the smugness is undeserved. Their blue state status isn't by virtue of any higher political insight. It is by virtue of having a bigger chunk of your population in urban areas. Get away from the big cities in California and the communities are as red as any community in Indiana. The same goes for New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Maryland, Washington, and Oregon. Without the large cities, most of them wouldn't stay blue.
But for some reason in these discussions the big cities in the South don’t really count, they’re not the "real" South. But only Los Angeles or San Francisco count when talking about California.
I remember when my home inspector came out and brought his visiting dad with him, an older man who had lived mostly in Georgia but retired in upstate New York. He said "I moved there because it’s so beautiful, but it’s so redneck it’s hard to deal with. Nice people, but a lot of ignorance and racism, we just can’t talk politics".
Hulk
(6,699 posts)Doesn't matter what state you travel through. Once you get outside the major metropolitan areas the only radio you can pick up are Rush, Vannity, a few lesser reich wingers and bible-thumper nonsense. It's no wonder the rural areas are bright red.
But once again, in my opinion there is a difference in regions around the country, even in urban areas.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)The "Triangle", the "Triad", Charlotte and Asheville have become quite blue. Surrounded by a sea of red.
(2012, city turnout dropped, so NC barely voted for Romney)
At the moment, power swings back and forth between those two extremes. 2010 resulted in insane districts that make the state appear much more red. My congressional district has small pieces of two cities and a hundred miles of rural area between them.
But the cities are growing extremely fast, and getting even bluer, while the rural areas are slowly shrinking. It's not going to be that long until NC looks like California, politically - neon red rural areas politically dominated by the blue cities. Probably going to have to wait until after the 2020 redistricting to see it, though.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)NC is a good example of the tug-of-war between rural and urban interests. The old conservative die-hards are going down in NC. Not only because of the changing urban demographic but the younguns are not in lock step with the old ways. They're smarter.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)The kids generally aren't growing up to take over the family farm. Factory farming is shutting down the family farms, leaving not enough jobs in the rural areas.
That drives people away from the rural areas. In the cities, they get out of the monoculture they grew up in, and realize there's other ways of running things than "the way it's always been".
You couple that with importing a whole lot of people from places that are less "God and guns", and it's not looking good long-term for the Republicans.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)Not all of the transplants are Dems. In the business sector, which is responsible for a lot of that migration, conservatism is big and support of so-called Repub "moderates" is the norm. (But they got burned on that with Kochhead McCrony and the Tea Baggers, so maybe they'll take a different tack). Not everybody from NY and CA are flaming liberals, but some are so it helps.
The kids are smarter I think. And yes, moving away from rural areas. More in synch with progressive ideas.
We agree that Republicon business sector is looking bad in NC. They have been exposed as never before.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)God and guns generally works for rural Republicans. It generally does not work for urban Republicans - they care about tax cuts, not "values".
As for those "business" types, it's going to greatly depend on the sector of the business.
RTP is importing people to work in high-tech companies. Which means highly educated workers, which skews towards Democrats. They tend to be libertarian to liberal. God and guns isn't going to work at all. And the libertarian streak often fades as the person gets older and realizes that they actually do benefit from government services.
Charlotte is importing bankers. The high-end of that wants tax cuts, but they rely on a whole lot of people working below them with a variety of views. But again, God and guns doesn't matter as much to them.
eyeofnewt
(146 posts)I agree with Lost. I live a short ferry ride outside of Seattle, and it's teabagger heaven out here. If not for Seattle voters, this state would be red. I was shocked when traveling to the eastern parts of the state at the conservative politics. I moved here 4 yrs. ago, and my mistaken perception was of a liberal state. And then there's the "Seattle freeze", which is a nice way of saying people are cool and distant.
I'm from the south - and my goal is to go back- NC, Ky, WV, or OH- not for political reasons but personal ones.
I'll be saying howdy y'all before you know it~~~~
Response to eyeofnewt (Reply #220)
appalachiablue This message was self-deleted by its author.
ALBliberal
(3,327 posts)If not for a good education and moving to a culturally diverse state like New Mexico I would be ever bit as prejudiced and closed minded as my Texan relatives. I love my Texan relatives and can only hope and pray that some day they see the light because it is IMPOSSIBLE to talk sense to them. Why? Politics to them is not factual it is cultural and religious. Therefore facts don't matter. Might as well argue with a fence post.
still_one
(98,883 posts)From.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)"People are poor because they are lazy."
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"Trailer Trash"
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"Outhouse Dwellers"
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"Lazy"
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"Possum Eater"
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"Ignorant Redneck"
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"Stupid Hillbilly"
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Quotes courtesy of DU. Thank you for coming.
Behind the Aegis
(56,102 posts)
Regionalism is yet another form of bigotry that some self-professed liberals and progressives just can't seem to get enough of as evidenced by articles and comments from all over the web!
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)Per race, blacks commit more crimes, so we can act like bigots against blacks.
Per region, the south has more ignorant republican voters, so we can act like bigots against the south.
Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #123)
appalachiablue This message was self-deleted by its author.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)Some of the toughest, most fiercely independent folks God ever put on this planet -- and have been for centuries before they ever set foot here. Since I have a lot of Scots-Irish ancestry, chances are fair to middling that I have distant relatives there. I hope so.
WhiteAndNerdy
(365 posts)I grew up in an Appalachian family in the Midwest, so I've been dealing with both prejudices all my life. People who say things like that are just ignorant of life outside their own little part of the country, and don't realize they sound just as provincial as the people they're mocking.
intheflow
(30,165 posts)Most commercial, domestic US passenger air traffic flies between US borders. The middle is, by that very fact, country that is flown over. I can accept the case for "flyover people" being dehumanizing (though I'm 50, have lived all over the country and have never heard that phrase before). But seriously: talking about the juxtaposition of air traffic and geography is in no way dehumanizing.
Here's wikipedia's list of the 60 or so busiest passenger airports in the US. Twenty-one of the top twenty-five airports are on coastlines. DFW is inland at #4, but it's only nominally inland when compared with the rest of the interior US; really, it's just Texas' way of having a major airport away from a direct hurricane hit.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)To pick a few traits and say "that is me!" is bullshit. Putting people into groups can be very convenient, and is almost mandatory for propaganda, but we shouldn't confuse our organizational systems with reality, in my opinion. We shouldn't confuse the map with the territory.
JonLP24
(29,916 posts)were people from the Midwest usually in the context of sports coverage but it argues the 1st point.
I don't think this is a big problem here. As far as politics & general hateful opinions which are common I'm a big hater of Arizona. It is beautiful but there are plenty of people here that make it suck. Not at all like the experience living in Washington Pierce County but like anywhere there will be great people and douches.
Response to YoungDemCA (Original post)
Scootaloo This message was self-deleted by its author.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)It's taken me well over a decade to shed most of the toxicity of southern "culture." I think my mother was permanently damaged by it, seeing as how she spent the better part of fifty-seven years in it. This culture that embraces - imagines, if need be (it usually needs to be) - victimhood, that makes misery a self-indulgence, that feeds a sense of superiority and all together creates the notion that the world is against you because you're better than everyone else and you are owed by the world for it?
That's why the south is the way it is. That's how it's been forever. and by every indication, that's how it's going to stay. This article is a shining example of how this cultural tapeworm infests even "progressives" - really, the writer thinks someone else judges a person's human worth by how "foofy" (dog whistle much?) a restaurant they dine at? No, that's her indulgently expressing hier superiority to all us "left coast liberals" while still insisting we're the ones being rude to her. it's a long-winded "bless y'all's little hearts."
That's southern "culture" in a nutshell, and it's been killing the south for over a century.
Response to Scootaloo (Reply #128)
Name removed Message auto-removed
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)But "you guys have racists too"... and my answer.. of course we do, but they are NOT A MAJORITY, and we end up elected Democrats to represent us.
This southern "culture" thing directly affects everyone. And it needs to be pointed out. And the responses we are seeing in this thread show how deeply ingrained it is in many areas of the United States.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)You mean like West Virginia, that place full of (according to some on DU) toothless hicks, trailer trash, outhouse dwellers and ignorant hillbillies:
West Virginia
U.S. Senators: Democrats
Governor: Democrat
Secy of State: Democrat
State Auditor: Democrat
Attorney General: republican
State Treasurer: Democrat
Agriculture Commissioner: Democrat
Senate Majority Leader: Democrat (supermajority)
House of Delegates: Democratic (majority)
Marr
(20,317 posts)Hosnon
(7,800 posts)It certainly has it's downsides, but I've never encountered those specific ones.
Inkfreak
(1,695 posts)What are those here who just happen to live in a blue region going to do to feel superior. I mean, they LIVE in an area where everyone or at least the majority think like them. They're clearly better people. They must be allowed to crow about their ability to live on different soil in the same damn country.
bvf
(6,604 posts)caught a lot of flak years ago for point this out in "Rednecks."
People were apparently too lazy to listen beyond the hook to hear the true message.
HoosierCowboy
(561 posts)...it's about how far away you are from your neighbor. The greater the population density, the more likely the color is Blue.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)This seems to be a global form of prejudice. We have it for the entire world: Northern hemisphere vs. Southern hemisphere. We have it in countries in Europe (personally, I admit that I've only known of this prejudice from people in France and Germany, but would suspect it's similar in other countries.
And we have it in the USA as well as between us and Mexico, Central America, and South America (as well as the Caribbean and all of the other island groups I can't remember.)
In every case I've been aware of, whether personally or observing it online, is that those in the North are educated, upstanding, Liberal citizens, and everyone in the South are ignorant conservative hicks.
Considering how endemic this is to the entire world, I'm not sure how such widespread prejudice can be stopped. It's almost like it's become traditional, so it must remain that way.
Seeing it bandied about on DU on an almost weekly basis is one of the reasons I don't post here nearly as much as I did in the past. I don't think that's a good thing DU, and y'all should be concerned about that.
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)kentauros
(29,414 posts)I thought that was apparent. I apologize for any confusion on my part for a lack of educational clarity. I am a Texan after all
whatthehey
(3,660 posts)Mirror image in fact, according to my sources for all UK knowledge - QI and Mock the Week.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)It still points out a divide based on geography and generalizations from each group toward the other. It's just too bad people accept and/or fall for those generalizations constantly. It would be a far better world if we'd just stop with such petty BS.
Prophet 451
(9,796 posts)...we probably wouldn't mock them so much.
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)no answer.
roody
(10,849 posts)
ProfessorGAC
(76,622 posts)I really don't let it bother me enough to take a position like the author. Besides, since i'm only 60 miles or so from Chicago, i just think it's silly if someone thinks Chicago is just flyover country.
whatthehey
(3,660 posts)And no that blindness is not regionalism, elitism, classism or whatever you want to call it. It's also far less sexist, racist or misogynist than just about anywhere else with general access despite repeated complaints to the contrary.
It's really this strange. This place is full of insightful, informed, well-written opinions in great part. A touch histrionic at times but far less wild and extreme than most other major political messageboards. But, collectively, you guys are seemingly incapable of recognizing the difference between the general and the personal. Everything and anything here, written without a shred of personalization, is seen by someone here as a life-shattering attack. I have never seen the like, and I've been on internet message boards since the early 90s.
Here's the problem: "Texas is deeeply Republican and gives us lunatics like Cruz and Perry" is both true and not insulting. There is not a single person capable of typing "Texas" who does not know there are millions of Dem Texans, and heavily blue subsets of Texas. But "Texas" is a noun referring to the whole state NOT every individual in it, and the whole state IS deeply Republican and does give us lunatics like the above. It doesn't mean every single Texan is to blame, just that Texas as a whole is.
The South IS poorer, less well-educated, less culturally sophisticated than the North in toto. But there are many many examples of the inverse. That changes nothing however. Rural Pennsylvania is in the North but not the whole North. The Research Triangle is in the South but not the whole South. Certainly there are individual variants by the millions of cultured geniuses in Atlanta and knuckle-dragging imbeciles in Manhattan, but please understand this: the way, the ONLY way, to seek to rebut the statement at the start of this paragraph is to look at REGIONAL statistics, not metro statistics or individual anecdotes, and there is nothing, not one single damned whisper of an implication, in that statement that suggests EVERYBODY in the South is poor, uneducated and simple or that nobody in the North is.
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)Ok.. I will give you one!
...and SRV
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)and quite frankly, it can get bad. But I must say, the most prejudice place I've ever worked (I used to travel around a bit for work) was Pittsburgh PA. And when I was in Maine, I noticed there were only 4 people who weren't white..... and 3 of them were tourists.
Anyway.... with Obama's election ALL the bigots crawled out of the woodwork and they are everywhere!
I remember during the Bush administration, someone on DU complained (paraphrasing):
"Jesus Christ! I'm sick of Rumsfeld and Cheney, and Bush is just awful. I hate these Southerners taking over!"
to which I replied:
"Rumsfeld is from IL
Cheney lives in WY
Bush is originally from CT
And Jesus Christ is from Galilee.
NONE of the people you mentioned are from the South."
It's ok to criticize the South.... just make sure you are criticizing the South when you do.
BTW... KY was not in the Confederacy, y'know. Oh and Civil War monuments and battlefields are (mostly) in the South because that's where the war was fought. There a big one in PA... remember? Just like Revolutionary War stuff is in New England...as well as the South.
One last thing: The correct response to anyone claiming "the South shall rise again" AND/OR "The frontier West was great" is "North South East West... you DO NOT want to live in the 19th century.... period."
liberal N proud
(61,194 posts)
You have to have a tick skin or a Teflon suit because it will get to you otherwise.
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)All joking aside.. I never get offended when people make regional jokes... because I have lived in so many different states in my life... that I get the jokes.
I see so many people take "their State" so personally.. they need to be chided.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)My mother had a friend who took a river cruise up the River Seine in France. A couple from CA asked her where she was from. When she replied that she was from IN, they asked how she had heard about the cruise. She dryly informed them that we do have electricity in IN.
Youdontwantthetruth
(135 posts)anything?
I know I don't.
Blue_Adept
(6,499 posts)So many people feeling so personally attacked when it's not about them... sorta like the #notallmen or #notallgamers stuff...
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts).. and how hurtful it can be (and by hurtful, I'm not talking just about "feelings" it's understandable that people can feel personally attacked.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Which isn't the case at all. There's plenty of people talking trash about California or New York City. Heck, the Republican party is utterly dedicated to trashing these places as their overall political strategy. Yet you don't have Democrats campaigning in CA about keeping "Southern values" away.
Every place on the planet has its bad parts and its good parts. If you are mostly working on improving the good parts of where you live, then it isn't about you.
mountain grammy
(29,005 posts)we deserve to be ridiculed for it.. every idiot elected and the idiots who elect them deserve to be ridiculed. I live in a red part of the state and, frankly, am tired of the stupidity.
world wide wally
(21,836 posts)That is the part of the country that shapes our policies and they are becoming more and more offensive and outright harmful.
I could go on and on about all of this, but I will just quickly say that a place like North Dakota has one Congressional representative for every 200,000 people and New York only has one rep for about every 1 million people. (these are guestamites). So maybe when these states stop sending borderline idiots to write our laws, people will lighten up on them.
In the meantime, just think of it as little acts of revenge.
Smart people know that nobody is directing any I'll will toward them as shown in so many replies above.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Dividing, then dicing, then mincing our potential base of fellow Americans with little more than crap data to justify a standard-issue culture war. Why bother building a movement when shaming is so much easier, and fun, too! Jeez, on a supposedly influential web site.
appalachiablue
(43,996 posts)theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)"Shame 'em, it's the only thing that we can do."
This and similar expressions for moral condemnation were and to a lesser extent are used to condemn people in the "gungeon," and while it was confined to that group, few seemed to care. But the practice is now prevalent throughout DU, and is a staple for outlooks beyond this site. IMO, it heavily implies political impotence and self-defeat, even a demand for conformity to the "shame 'em" approach.
I'd like to think this world view is the handiwork of on-line trolls, but I'm afraid it isn't.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)Yet the denial is fierce. I daresay that on the whole (and rereading some of those old threads from my journal) the rhetoric has only gotten more vitriolic. It's very discouraging.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)at worst, it is authoritarian. The difference is if your group has power. Disaffected Democrats (including many here) are increasingly in a corner. The result is to play the same game as those who are in power. Those in the polity who see this dynamic either turn off to politics, or go with the strong. The advantage accrues to the far right, no matter.
I'm struck by the lack of sophistication, and by the cynicism of so many of the remarks. It's as if they know they are lab rats.
beerandjesus
(1,301 posts)...and seem bent on reinforcing the points made in the article:
3. It enables the right-wing agenda of making citizens feel detached from politics and government.
4. It feeds into the "red state/ blue state" myth, which is inaccurate and hurts progressives.
I hope someone here sees the irony of a good chunk of the discussion here....
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Trouble is, I don't know what it is they have won.
beerandjesus
(1,301 posts)I'm about as left-wing as they come, and I'm pretty quick to attack the Democratic Party in general and President Obama in specific when I feel like they're playing to the right, or otherwise selling out the ideals of the party of FDR.
BUT... what galls me more than anything is that this discussion shows why the Democratic Party has lost such huge swaths of America. Instead of being the party of the people, as they once were, they've ceded populist rhetoric to the right and retreated into intellectual enclaves where they sit around and pat themselves on the back for what good non-racists and non-homophobes they are. Here in South Carolina, people KNOW the system is rigged against them, believe me, but the right is out there working hard to direct that anger and resentment in precisely the wrong direction, while the national Democrats offer little but cheap sanctimony as an alternative.
I realize that DU is intended as a safe place for Democrats (and, I hope, for those of us to the left of the party platform). But I see no virtue in not being racist or homophobic. That should be the default position, not something to go out there and feel superior about. People in the South and Midwest are suffering--a lot--and the Democrats aren't doing a whole hell of a lot about it. In fact, they're doing a hell of a lot less about it than the racist-as-fuck Democrats of 80 years ago. But here we are, acting like we're so much smarter than those country bumpkins. If I were a right-wing troll looking for ammunition, this thread would be an absolute goldmine.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)"If I were a right-wing troll looking for ammunition, this thread would be an absolute goldmine."
Exactly.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)I wonder what motivates the massive number of threads about race & sexual identity. The crucial question should be: If you can change things for the better only by working with folks who are still racist, sexist and homophobic, WOULD you? I know my answer ("yes" , but will others refuse and cede the field? Perhaps they are only looking for an excuse to drop out. If that is the case, why the slash & burn?
beerandjesus
(1,301 posts)...which was the (admittedly failed) first-ever national legislation restricting campaign finance, was put forward by "Pitchfork" Ben Tillman, one of the most virulent racists you'll find in the annals of American history.
Would the Democrats on here work with someone like that to limit money in politics, or would they sit back and think about how much better they are than that racist bastard? I'm not sure if I want to know the answer to that question.
vkkv
(3,384 posts)Red States love to talk about responsibility and independence, but they are ANYTHING but!
Talk about being hypocritical!
Let's talk about closing some government offices or bases for their supposedly desired "smaller gub'mnt."
They'll say 'don't you dare!'.
Let's talk about privatizing the Tenn. Valley Power Authority that provides largely publicly financed electricity.
They'll say 'don't you dare!'.
First: Let them secede and take OK, KS, MO, AZ and TX with them.
Second: Let them do what they want without the financial help of Blue States.
Yes, I am serious about this. I hope it happens in my lifetime,
muntrv
(14,505 posts)
mfcorey1
(11,134 posts)Hosnon
(7,800 posts)Wait... nevermind.
bowens43
(16,064 posts)I say fuck that, the stereotypes are for the most part true , whether or not they have money is irrelevant.
In fact those with money are sometimes the worst.
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)
Liberalynn
(7,549 posts)We have plenty of bigoted, racist, sexist, greedy asses right here in New York State. Unfortunately I am surrounded by them, not only in my town, but my county, and in my family as well. Some of them can't even claim to be that way because they are either low information voters or intellectually challenged. Many have the same access I do to sources of political information and the same or similar educational opportunities that I did growing up.
The way I look at it is they willingly choose to buy the heaping sacks of manure the Pukes and Faux noise sell them because they believe in stereotyping African Americans and they are moronic enough to believe if the government didn't make them pay their taxes they could all be the next Donald Trump.
I will continue to call people out for that kind of ignorance out and yes even mock them for it, but not because of where they live. As far as Pukes are concerned their ability to act like despicable jerks knows no geographical boundaries.
Yes they are entitled to their opinions. However, until they learn to base those on something besides whatever a Fox commentator or right wing radio host pulls out of his/her ass on any given day in direct opposition to immutable facts, I don't have to respect said opinions.
Aristus
(72,125 posts)As a coastie, I shrug a little, then forget about it.
I don't feel less than just because someone from East Cornsilo, Kansas thinks the coasts are not the 'real' America.
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)be mocked for being stupid or dumb.
Can any one of them explain how mocking someone for not having a high enough IQ is any different from picking on someone because of their race, gender, sexual orientation or any other factor they have no control over?
I myself happen to have been gifted with a fairly high IQ but if I were to consider everyone that has a lower IQ than me to be inferior I would be as bad as any bigot or racist you could name. I learned a long time ago that character and behavior are the things that count not how someone scores on an IQ test of if someone is kind of "dumb."
Really I wonder how progressive some folks really are with attitudes like that.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)I've never judged people on whether they were worth knowing based on how educated they were, how they voted, or where they lived. If they're a likable individual, who cares about the other stuff?
Maybe what DU needs is more people here taking Dale Carnegie classes
Liberalynn
(7,549 posts)You can have one the highest IQ levels and still be challenged in certain areas, or gifted in certain skill sets but woefully lacking in others. For instance on many measures of such things as far as language arts and reading comprehension, my abilities were off the top of the charts. On the other hand my mathematical skills were so low they were practically off even the bottom of those same type of charts. I don't know what that makes me smart or dumb but I don't care at any rate.
I don't know what is the politically correct phrase you call people who are born with such severe intellectual limitations that they are hampered in their ability to learn most life skills, but at any rate those individuals aren't whom I consider ignorant and aren't the ones I mock.
I am talking about people like two members of my family. One held a fairly responsible job at a factory. He worked regular hours, not a lot of overtime, but he did his time. Then he got laid off when the company downsized. Since then he has buzzed like a bee does from flower to flower, only in his case from job to job. He always finds some excuse to quit, before he builds up vacation time or becomes eligible for promotions or raises. Yet you know who he blames that he's "poor"? If you think it's the CEO's who nearly ran his former company into the ground, or his own inability to stay in any job since, you're wrong.
He blames some "mythological" "black welfare queen" with twenty kids who sits on her ass eating bon bons and watching daytime T.V. while he's working so hard to support her ass." He's always posting memes like that on Facebook or talking at family get togethers about the same garbage. That's what I mean by "ignorance" deserving of mockery.
Another cousin has a degree in education. She could have taught even after she got married. She chose to be a stay at home mom, nothing wrong with that. She could afford too because her husband had a really high paying job. When he died fairly young of diabetic complications he left her and her kids a sizeable nest egg. Her Dad also left her a generous sum as did her father in law.
She spent every dime buying DVDs, CDs, collectibles, concerts, New cars, going on trips etc. Her kids are adults now. She works at a few part time jobs far below her abilities, that pay little, volunteers (which is a good thing), and is in credit card debt up to her eye balls. Whenever my sister or her brother, whom both work almost 60 hour weeks buy a new vehicle because they have driven theirs into the ground, she makes comments like "wow it must be nice to be rich." And again why does she think she's in debt? Is it her own lack of ambition or that she is an incurable shopaholic? Nope, in her mind it's that same mythological black woman on welfare with all those Damn little black kids, who will grow up just like their baby mama, so my cousins "hard working grandkids " will have to support someday.
Now I ask you if those are the types of opinions that I should "RESPECT" as a progressive and not mock and shame them for having? I can respect and even love other parts of their personality's but still IMHO consider their willful racism and ignorance, and hypocrisy inexcusable.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)We have our faults, but there are worse things to be. For better or worse, I guess that's just how it is. I'm not going to move to some overcrowded, expensive coastal city to prove how "liberal" I am. I'm 56 years old -- long past the age where I worry about whether people like me or not.
U4ikLefty
(4,012 posts) mb999
(89 posts)The more things change the more they stay the same. The South will never get over the civil war. The politics of the region has gotten even more reich wing.
TerrapinFlyer
(277 posts)Racism is "everywhere".. like ANYONE is actually arguing that it in not everywhere.
The amazing part is many think it is spread evenly across every state. They can't admit that maybe their "home" state might have a regional issue.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)on individual basis, not by what they wear, not by what job they do, not by the amount in their bank account, not by their color, not by their sexual preference, not by their health, and not by where they live.
shireen
(8,340 posts)wow ... i feel so ignorant!
Youdontwantthetruth
(135 posts)blue states is when I will stop mocking them.
Besides since when has stating the truth about the regions in question become talking sh*t?
Brigid
(17,621 posts)We Midwesterners already have all the enemies we need anyway.