I think that I finally have heard such an over the top idea from another DU'er

[truedelphi]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by bluesbassman (a host of the General Discussion forum).

That I am left confabulated, overwhelmed, or maybe simply WHELMED?

In another post made today, I stated how awful it is that here in the USA, very little was done by this Administration in terms of helping the Middle Class. I went on to detail how in Iceland, the bankers who corrupted the economic scenario and then imploded the Icelandic economy were jailed. While our bankers were bailed out.

I went on to say: Here we let our bankers go, continued a policy of no taxation for the rich (Obama extended the "Bush tax cuts&quot and tomorrow or next week or next year, the entire economy could melt down once again. And our middle class is hurting, but once again, we would be bailing those bastards on Wall Street out. Prices of food are out of sight, but as long as Safeway has "Buy one 800 ounce container of soda pop and get 30 bottles free," the economic index is screwed and doesn't measure the real inflation most of us who are not living on soda pop see every day of the week. (Things I buy are 75 cents more expensive than they were in the Spring of 2014.)

Now I expectd the usual defense: "The mean and horrid Republicans, why they just wouldn't let Obama or Holder do that."

But I got this instead: (Verbatim reply) :

Well mr. prez


if you were in Iceland you might be right, but here, IF Obama jailed any bankers of note or tried, he would be where Jack Kennedy ended up, with a fucking bullet in his head. Go tell your garbage to someone who can change this system and stop complaining about a POTUS who's done a lot for a lot of people. No, he couldn't live up to all the promises he made, NO politician in this system ever has or ever will. They are limited by this system and when you add a bunch of hateful people grinding against him, both R and D, he never stood a chance. Wake up and look at reality and the american system. Money rules, not principle, ethics or promises. MONEY!!!! Obama and NO POTUS, will ever change that.

I'd be willing to bet if a republican was in office, those items you're paying more for now than in september would be double that .75cents.

#########################

So is this now the meme we have to believe -- that the elected Democrats would be shot and killed if they should actually attempt to make things okay for the middle class? So okay, if that is the case, then what is the friggin' point of going to the polls?

The above meme is hardly a "Get Out The Vote" type of meme. It is more like a "stay at home and hope the corruption doesn't end up with you and your whole family being carted off in the middle of the night" philosophy.

Because what is being described is a damn banana republic, and in that scenario, people do get rounded up and carted off in the middle of the night!

[snooper2]

1. Was the topic sufficiently debated in the subsequent sub-thread?

[pkdu]

2. Anti GOTV meme?

Pot....meet Kettle.

[truedelphi]

4. My message is anti-GOTV meme onlfor those who don't think

we can change things fromwithin the party.

Granted there are a lot fo those people, but the fact that we do have serious discussions about Bernie Sanders/Warren ticket for 2016 means that I am not the only person thinking needed change could occur.

[Maedhros]

9. Q: By what stretch of fevered imagination is this an anti-GOTV post?

A: As should be obvious to even the most casual observer, it is not.

[hfojvt]

22. well, some people get discouraged by this

"I stated how awful it is that here in the USA, very little was done by this Administration in terms of helping the Middle Class."

And think the party needs to be more "rah rah" about all the accomplishments of Obama.

After all, he did get rid of a whole 15% of the Bush tax cuts.

That's something. Not near enough, but it's something.

[MineralMan]

3. So, where's the link to that previous post today?

How are we to figure out what you're talking about without a link?

[JustAnotherGen]

8. I posted it down below MM

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5694963

[REP]

5. It is over the top

There is almost no middle class left. Ther than that, the quoted post isn't unrealistic. Expecting one politician to change an entire system is.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

6. The country has lost its way.

Far too many people simply think that going to Hell in a Handbasket SLOWER is something actually worth voting for, as opposed to doing a U-turn and heading away from eventual destruction.

It's 'too hard' to elect candidates who actually won't keep heading for the cliff, because these voters prefer the self-fulfilling 'vote for the lesser evil' strategy, and proclaim that any attempt to vote for a better candidate will invariably elect the worst candidate. And then guarantee that it will for refusing to vote for the best candidate and giving most of the votes to mediocrely-bad candidates instead.

[hfojvt]

19. well it is hard to get things past the Senate

getting 60+ seems to be impossible. At this point we are apparently going to consider it a victory if we have only 50+ next month. And since we are apparently unable to re-take the House, we aren't going to be able to do anything anyway even with 80 Senators.

[JustAnotherGen]

7. The poster was heaven05

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5694963

Having read the full back and forth on that thread - I came to a different conclusion than that . .

[Maedhros]

10. When the rallying cry of the Democrats is "WE CAN'T, BECAUSE REPUBLICANS WON'T LET US."

The answer is to find someone who CAN.

[JustAnotherGen]

12. And to make sure you have laws in place

Which can be broken - and then one can be imprisoned for breaking if they are convicted.

Glass-Steagall.

[liberal_at_heart]

15. My daughter really likes Bernie Sanders, but the other day she said something that caught my

attention. She said he had some lofty ideas. She said in such a way as to not believe that he could do any of the things he hoped to do. I told her this country didn't do some of the things it has done by thinking that way. Did the Wright brothers think that way? Did Martin Luther King Jr. think that way? True Martin Luther King Jr was assassinated but he did it anyway knowing he could be killed and he CHANGED THE WORLD. When you become the President of the United States you have to know your life will be threatened at some point. That is why they have the Secret Service and drive an armored car. Hell as it is republicans show up at the polls with guns just to intimidate people. Are we going to cower down and be intimidated? Are our politicians going to cower down and be intimidated? Elizabeth Warren sure is hell isn't afraid. She goes after those banking bastards. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords is not afraid. She came back fighting. No we cannot accept the excuse "The Republicans wouldn't let us." We the voters have to go to the polls even if people show up with guns, and the people we elect must fight for us once we put them in office. I believe both Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren have that kind of courage. All we need to do is find more like them, have the courage to vote for them, and put them in office so they can show us how much courage they have.

[truedelphi]

37. What a great post.

Quite a bit there to think about.

[LanternWaste]

11. That half-witted response to your original premise negates the existence of FDR.

That half-witted response to your original premise seems to negate the very existence of FDR.

regardless, we're going to the polls, you and I-- regardless of the bogeyman alleged by creative minds.

[truedelphi]

16. I very much agree.

I know when this household watched Ken Burns documentary abotu "The Roosevelts," I was in tears, realizing how difficult it would be to see anyone like that family in power again.

But realizing something is difficult does not mean it can't ahppen. It can only not happen if we all become apathetic, and as a poster abve thread said, (I'm paraphrasing) "decide to do the fascism slower rather than faster."

[lunasun]

13. It is an opinion . One of many . they said if a republican was in ,you would pay even more than

your present complaint . Doesn't sound like they don't care . Sounds like they vote democratic
but some link would help inutile context

[JustAnotherGen]

14. Look at my posts

It was made by heaven05. Who is a staunch Democrat and GOTV'er.

When I write heaven05 - what comes to mind?

An older African American who has point blank written at DU - I grew up prior to the Civil Rights movement and I'm seeing the 'same things I saw as a kid'.


If President Obama had rounded up alllllllllllllll of those rich white men on wall street that an awful lot of poor and middle class white men who "Believe they will be like someday" - and imprisoned them without cause, a law on the books, etc. etc.


All hell would have broken loose.

[lunasun]

33. Thanks for the post and providing context . Sometimes during a reply I must stop for brief period b4

posting it

Looks like during that 10 min time you provided the link that was truly needed in the OP to gain context
I didn't catch it before posting but now I can see
Thanks

[hfojvt]

17. What I cannot figure

is this notion that the best way to help the middle class (as if we want to do that anyway) - is to put bankers in jail.

How about proposing some policies that are not just based on - punish people we don't like?

[JaneyVee]

20. True. If we really wanted to help the middle class...

We would pass laws that would prevent them from causing a financial collapse in the first place.

[truedelphi]

36. AND anyone considering what happened circa 2000 and 2008 knows the

Reason the economy imploded was due to the removal of Glass Seagall. This provision was removed when the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999 (or informally, the Banking Reform and Modernization Act) was passed by the House and Senate, with Bill Clinton signing off on it. It is worth noting that one and only one Senator, a Democrat named Dorgan, did not vote for that Act.

Senator Dorgan warned that removing Glass Steagall would have catastrophic consequences for the nation's economy. Of course, since the economy did not collapse within ten days of the Act becoming law, I am sure most people inside the Beltway made fun of him.

And rather than seeing to it that Glass Steagall be re-inserted into the nation's legal lexicon, Obama appointed someone to head the US Treasury who had only disdain for Glass Steagall.

That man's name was Tim Geithner. Lil Timmy had a history - it was Geithner who went over to the Far East on behalf of the IMF and World Bank in the 1990's and set things up so that Japan was forced to deal with a "L-Shaped" recovery.

It was no secret that Geithner would not hear of restoring the Glass Steagall Provisions.

It is also a fact that after the Savings and Loan debacle in the alte 1980's, there were laws put in palce that saw to it that regional state banks were offered charters, and were allocated vast sums of monies. But the monies were not bailout monies - the funds were meant specifically to be loaned to people on Main Street, to ensure that the economy would not take as hard a hit as it might have if things had not been handled this way.

Gweithner knew this very well, yet he testified before Congress that the only way that the financial crisis of 2008 could have been handled was by Bailing Out the Biggest Financial Players, who were, after all the very people responsible for the economic implosion.

That lie before Congress is perjury, and it is a felony and yet Geithner continued on in his role as US Secretary of the Treasury!

[JustAnotherGen]

38. We had two years to pass that law

What we got was Dodd Frank (July 2010) - President Obama signed it.

What the fuck was Congress sending up to him? What was that group of worthless idiots (some up for reelection in 2 weeks) thinking?


I mean - what a worthless House and Senate we had.

[Erose999]

21. Steal a candy bar and get shot in the back. Steal millions from the middle class and they name a

school or a park after you.

Its not that all bankers should go to jail, but the ones who knowing used the system to defraud people have had absolutely no consequences imposed on them at all.

Meanwhile, someone who sells a couple of ounces of plants that will grow in any roadside ditch gets their house taken under civil forfeiture.

[hfojvt]

24. How many of those people are there?

Those who "knowing used the system to defraud people".

Also, if they are "using the system" that sounds to me like what they did was perfectly legal. Disgusting and immoral, but legal.

Unlike selling pot.

Considering that it was corporations doing most of those things, the fact is that many of them have paid large fines. And taken huge losses otherwise. Sometimes even corporations which had little to do with it - like Bank of America, which is paying for the sins of Countrywide.

But that's not good enough for some people who apparently want to see some heads on silver platters.

[TBF]

30. It's not the individual bankers -

it is the support of a system that allows such theft to occur.

Obama is not going to be the one to change the system - no president is. But eventually people will tire of the economic inequality and they will figure out how to change this unjust system.

[JustAnotherGen]

39. + 100

[valerief]

18. I guess you're forgetting about the 2001 anthrax letters.

Doesn't mean Obama is a failure. Also doesn't mean any U.S. leader isn't at risk from whoever got all the Saudis out of the U.S. during 9-11.

[VanillaRhapsody]

23. bullshit on its face!

Http://whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com

[alcibiades_mystery]

25. Why are you posting a new thread that rehashes a debate from the last thread

Seems abusive to me.

[Cleita]

26. Having been born and lived in the Continent that invented

banana republics, I can say we are two-thirds of the way there. We always were a third there, even in the days of the New Deal and the post war boom of the fifties, that pulled most of the white people out of poverty, but did nothing for Native Americans and not so much for African Americans and other minorities either.

If we ever get to the point that we can root out racism in this society, then we will be able to address the problems that are contributing to this downward spiral of the majority of the population living like those people in banana republics, with a massive poor working class and a small elite that owns everything.

[notadmblnd]

27. Honestly, I think any elected figure Dem or Repub would meet an unfortunate end

if they didn't maintain the status quo.

[Man from Pickens]

28. It's either a threat, or a surrender

Either way it portrays Obama as a contemptible coward who is knowingly betraying us and pretty much admits that democratic governance has already been overthrown by a Deep State that makes its own rules and obeys no one.

[Dont call me Shirley]

29. What's happening now here is what happened in Chile, Russia, Argentina, Greece. It's called

Libertarianism Economics.

Not one sole President undo the current rigged economic system alone.

[hunter]

31. As always, the U.S.A. is the top banana of the banana republics.

Yeah! We're Number One!

But the methods of control within the U.S.A. are usually much more subtle than shooting domestic dissidents.

Sure, the U.S.A will torture, kill, and "disappear" people in other nations who resist our imperial corruption, but here at home the big men don't have to be so overt. They control the media and the money. We are all free to say whatever we like so long as we are ineffective. But it's still worth voting for the electable center-fascist-candidate-with-a-few-liberal-ideas over the fundamentally fascist or fascist-puppet candidate.

Reagan and GWB were fascist-puppets. In comparison Bill Clinton was, and Obama is, entirely beholden to the big banana republic, but still support certain liberal policies and are thus worthy of our votes. I have a very cynical view of government, but I never, not in any way, believe "both parties are the same." Fuck Ralph Nader, that little consumerist fascist worm. Voting is very important to me.

My personal push back against "the system" is to be outspoken and reduce my participation in the economics of it. I don't know or care "what's on TV," I have zero interest in things like iPhones or new cars, I don't commute to work, I intercept my computers from the recycling streams, I use free and Open Source Software, I find most of my clothes in thrift stores, I live every day of my life like it's sun-and-salt-no-admission-charge-Burning-Man-art and I think a generous helping of anarchy keeps the political system healthy.

Paint your house whatever colors you like, plant whatever you like in your front yard, worship or reject gods as you please, swim in the river or ocean naked... just don't be mean.

As Buckaroo Banzai says, "Hey, hey, hey, hey-now. Don't be mean; we don't have to be mean, cuz, remember, no matter where you go, there you are"

[Phlem]

34. In reality he's probably pretty close but

living in fear is a deep dark hole I wouldn't wish on anyone, what a waste. I'd rather shine as bright as I can for as long as I can.

Also, based off of that reasoning, Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders must be a joke to the dark angry reality we must all live under.

[DeadEyeDyck]

35. I think the problem is the failure of the left to present a vision of where we COULD be, as a count

and the steps we must take to get there.

[Johonny]

40. You are likely correct

Michael Shermer wrote about that I think two years ago. People with grand conspiracy theories and believe both parties are similar etc... tend to be a self perpetuating problem in that such attitudes correlate with not voting. If you think the system can't be fixed then you do indeed tend not to try and fix it. It is in generally a terrible message to try and get people out to vote and more to the point it is self perpetuating. The best way to make a proactive government that you like is to vote. The fact that a relatively low percentage of Americans vote is a large part of the political systems problem. Look for his archived essay on this as you'll likely enjoy it.

[bluesbassman]

41. Locking as Meta.