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Thu Oct 23, 2014, 04:14 PM

Answers sought on CIA role in ‘78 JFK probe

Investigators say files could prove interference

Eddie Lopez was the investigator for the House Select Committee on Assassinations.

By Bryan Bender
Boston Globe, Oct. 15, 2014

WASHINGTON — It was nearly four decades ago that Eddie Lopez was hired by a congressional committee to reinvestigate the 1963 murder of President John F. Kennedy, a role that had him digging through top secret documents at the CIA.

In the end, the House Select Committee on Assassinations reported in 1978 that it believed the assassination was probably the result of a conspiracy, although it couldn’t prove that, and its conclusions are disputed by many researchers.

But now Lopez is seeking answers to a lingering question: Could still-classified records reveal, as he and some of his fellow investigators have long alleged, that the CIA interfered with the congressional investigation and placed the committee staff under surveillance?


“It was time to fight one last time to ascertain what happened to JFK and to our investigation into his assassination,” Lopez, who is now the chief counsel for a school district in Rochester, N.Y., said in an interview. He is joined in the effort by two other former investigators, researcher Dan Hardway and G. Robert Blakey, the panel’s staff director.

Lopez, 58, charges that the CIA actively stymied the probe and monitored the committee staff members as they pursued leads about the events leading up to the assassination.



PS: Must've missed this story when it came out, as it wasn't in my local paper. Thought DU might be interested, seeing how CIA and the Secret Government are still lying to the American people, still spying on the American people, and still making a killing off war. What else they're doing to the American people, I can't guess.

PPS: What Ed Lopez's partner, Dan Hardway, told me and a college museum full of folks a year ago.

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Reply Answers sought on CIA role in ‘78 JFK probe (Original post)
Octafish Oct 2014 OP
Politicalboi Oct 2014 #1
Octafish Oct 2014 #2
malaise Oct 2014 #22
billhicks76 Oct 2014 #31
Scuba Oct 2014 #3
Omaha Steve Oct 2014 #4
Tommymac Oct 2014 #5
dflprincess Oct 2014 #38
Octafish Oct 2014 #9
Scuba Oct 2014 #14
Octafish Oct 2014 #21
santamargarita Oct 2014 #6
Octafish Oct 2014 #10
LineLineLineReply !
Mc Mike Oct 2014 #23
santamargarita Oct 2014 #25
Octafish Oct 2014 #29
santamargarita Oct 2014 #36
tiptonic Oct 2014 #7
Robbins Oct 2014 #12
Octafish Oct 2014 #20
hootinholler Oct 2014 #8
Octafish Oct 2014 #27
johnnyreb Oct 2014 #11
Octafish Oct 2014 #35
RufusTFirefly Oct 2014 #13
Octafish Oct 2014 #37
RufusTFirefly Oct 2014 #40
Octafish Oct 2014 #41
RufusTFirefly Oct 2014 #42
7wo7rees Oct 2014 #15
Karmadillo Oct 2014 #16
Octafish Oct 2014 #47
johnnyreb Oct 2014 #17
7wo7rees Oct 2014 #19
Octafish Oct 2014 #48
Jesus Malverde Oct 2014 #18
Octafish Oct 2014 #49
CrawlingChaos Oct 2014 #33
Octafish Oct 2014 #39
rhett o rick Oct 2014 #24
PCIntern Oct 2014 #26
silvershadow Oct 2014 #28
Octafish Oct 2014 #46
For Freddie Oct 2014 #30
Octafish Oct 2014 #45
WillyT Oct 2014 #32
Octafish Oct 2014 #44
Rex Oct 2014 #34
Octafish Oct 2014 #43

Response to Octafish (Original post)

Thu Oct 23, 2014, 04:20 PM

1. It's more than the CIA


J Edgar Hoover hated the Kennedy's. LBJ hated JFK and RFK. And there's still that picture of Poppy Bush and Jr that needs verification.
For someone who claims he didn't know where he was on Nov 22nd 1963 it would really open doors to the CIA involvement. I would love to see that piece of shit found guilty of conspiracy to kill JFK before that piece of shit dies. Let's see if he laughs then.

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Response to Politicalboi (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 23, 2014, 04:40 PM

2. Poppy and his secret government pals often declare specific people threats. Take Australia.

What Ted Shackley, Blonde Ghost of the CIA and good chum of George Herbert Walker Bush, did:

The forgotten coup - and how the godfather rules from Canberra to Kiev

John Pilger
16 March 2014


Victor Marchetti, the CIA officer who had helped set up Pine Gap, later told me, "This threat to close Pine Gap caused apoplexy in the White House. Consequences were inevitable... a kind of Chile was set in motion."


The Governor-General was an enthusiastic member of the Australian Association for Cultural Freedom, described by Jonathan Kwitny of the Wall Street Journal in his book, 'The Crimes of Patriots', as, "an elite, invitation-only group... exposed in Congress as being founded, funded and generally run by the CIA". The CIA "paid for Kerr's travel, built his prestige... Kerr continued to go to the CIA for money".

In 1975, Whitlam discovered that Britain's MI6 had long been operating against his government. "The Brits were actually de-coding secret messages coming into my foreign affairs office," he said later. One of his ministers, Clyde Cameron, told me, "We knew MI6 was bugging Cabinet meetings for the Americans." In interviews in the 1980s with the American investigative journalist Joseph Trento, executive officers of the CIA disclosed that the "Whitlam problem" had been discussed "with urgency" by the CIA's director, William Colby, and the head of MI6, Sir Maurice Oldfield, and that "arrangements" were made. A deputy director of the CIA told Trento: "Kerr did what he was told to do."

In 1975, Whitlam learned of a secret list of CIA personnel in Australia held by the Permanent Head of the Australian Defence Department, Sir Arthur Tange - a deeply conservative mandarin with unprecedented territorial power in Canberra. Whitlam demanded to see the list. On it was the name, Richard Stallings who, under cover, had set up Pine Gap as a provocative CIA installation. Whitlam now had the proof he was looking for.

On 10 November, 1975, he was shown a top secret telex message sent by ASIO in Washington. This was later sourced to Theodore Shackley, head of the CIA's East Asia Division and one of the most notorious figures spawned by the Agency. Shackley had been head of the CIA's Miami-based operation to assassinate Fidel Castro and Station Chief in Laos and Vietnam. He had recently worked on the "Allende problem".

[font color="red"]Shackley's message was read to Whitlam. Incredibly, it said that the prime minister of Australia was a security risk in his own country.[/font color]



That Fellah and his cronies in secrecy tie events from the coup against FDR to the present day. He laughed at the funeral when he mentioned "a deluded gunman" and he never explained the FBI memo in which he phoned his whereabouts as Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963. A crucial point is he gave warning of a threat against President Kennedy only after the official announcement was made.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #2)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 07:20 AM

22. I have long maintained that the real Politburo

is in the US

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Response to Politicalboi (Reply #1)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 03:59 PM

31. Yes


Watergate burglar E Howard Hunt admitted on video in 2005 that CIA with direction from J Edgar Hoover and a jealous LBJ killed JFK. Bush Sr was probably the manager of the operation.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Thu Oct 23, 2014, 05:27 PM

3. Nah, it was just a lone gunman. It's always just a lone gunman.


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Response to Scuba (Reply #3)

Thu Oct 23, 2014, 05:33 PM

4. Lone "NUT" gunman

To be exact.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Reply #4)

Thu Oct 23, 2014, 06:00 PM

5. Lone "Nut" gunman with a "magic" bullet.

Down and to the left...down and to the left.

The drama is in the details dont'cha know...

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Response to Tommymac (Reply #5)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 10:30 PM

38. Lone "Nut" gunman with a "magic" bullet

who is usually referred to by his first, middle and last names.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #3)

Thu Oct 23, 2014, 06:56 PM

9. Bombers work in teams.

Few today remember a most heinous terrorist act: The assassinations of former Chilean ambassador Orlando Letelier and American Ronnie Karpen Moffit.

Ms. Moffit was an American citizen murdered by agents of a foreign government on U.S. soil. Her only crime was being with Orlando Letelier, whose crime was to speak out against the military coup that toppled the democratically elected Chilean government he served. Because he refused to turn over the Chilean secret police and their American contacts, these assassinations were allowed, if not sanctioned, by George Bush, then head of the CIA.

October 6 marked the 38th anniversary of another most heinous terrorist act: The bombing of a Cuban civilian airliner that killed 73 passengers and crew. The pilots reported the blast caused their aircraft to catch fire and they were burning up as they attempted an emergency landing. The plane crashed into the Caribbean, a few miles west of Barbados. All aboard perished, including a close friend of the Great DUer malaise.

Cubana Airlines DC-8 like the one bombed by BFEE members Luis Posada Carriles and Orlando Bosch. Both turds have been protected by Poppy and Baby Doc Bush and the CIA, which strangely has been loyal to them rather than to various presidencies before and in-between.

Here’s an excellent essay based on the facts:

The Charmed Life of a Mass Murderer

Posada Carriles and Bush's Anti-Terror Hoax

Counterpunch June 9, 2005

President George W. Bush has emphasized that if one of the myriad of U.S. police agencies even suspect someone of planning, abetting or carrying out a terrorist act, he will, at a minimum, get tossed into a dark hole. Indeed, Bush has thrown the Magna Carta into the garbage heap when it comes to Muslims suspected of pernicious thoughts toward the United States.

But if suspected terrorists turn their rage toward the detested Fidel Castro, these rules don't apply.

Indeed, those who try to bomb Cuban targets, or those related to Cuba, receive special treatment. This double-standard casts a shadow over the president's commitment to fight terrorism.

For example, TV footage showed Homeland Security cops arresting Posada in mid May. But the arresting officers didn't even handcuff the Western Hemisphere's most notorious terrorist. (Remember how Bush's pal Ken "Kenny Boy" Lay ­ ENRON's CEO ­ got handcuffed?) Justice Department spokespeople said they plan to charge the foremost terrorist in the western hemisphere with "illegal entry into the United States."

The FBI has reams of files on Posada, affectionately called "Bambi" by his terrorist friends. Former FBI Special Agent Carter Cornick told New York Times reporter Tim Weiner that Posada was "up to his eyeballs" in the October 1976 destruction of a Cuban commercial airliner over Barbados. All 73 passengers and crew members died. Recently published FBI and CIA documents not only confirm Cornick's statement, but also reveal that U.S. agencies had knowledge of the plot and did not inform Cuban authorities or try to stop the bombing.


One wonders: Did Posada announce his illegal presence in the United States with the idea that U.S. government complicity in aiding and abetting his past acts of terrorism would protect him? U.S. authorities didn't inform Cuba or try to stop the 1976 air-bombing plot, and in 1971, as Veciana stated, the CIA made the gun that Posada's agents placed inside the camera to assassinate Castro. And Ollie North has knowledge of Posada's covert activities for U.S. intelligence as well.



[font color="red"]What ties these two events together is the involvement of George Herbert Walker Bush, as then-CIA director, in their cover-up as crimes and in the protection of their perpetrators, as in the person of one Luis Posada Carriles, Orlando Bosch and their colleagues-in-terror.[/font color]

Think about it: A murder-forgiving CIA director Bush went on to become President of the United States. A presidency later, Bush’s son, George, was appointed by a GOP-stacked Supreme Court to the presidency. Then from Day One, the younger Bush used his office to protect and cover-up the crimes of his father. That’s what Hugo Chavez was talking about when he smelled the sulfur and called Bush “The Devil.”

America needs to wake up and smell the sulfur, too. Here’s some background on the above:


CIA and FBI Documents Detail Career in International Terrorism; Connection to U.S.

National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book No. 153

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB153 /

Don’t forget to check out Orlando Bosch, while you’re at it. GOOGLE with Jeb Bush for some interesting connections to the present day.

Democracy Now’s Amy Goodman and Juan Gonzalez interviewed National Security Archive’s Peter Kornbluh and Letelier’s son, Francisco:


Another important point to remember, is Kissinger's close association with Operation CONDOR, the assassination program run out of "The Cone" to silence democrats, liberals, union leaders, progressives, socialists, communists or anyone who stood for justice and equality.

Chile security chief was CIA informer

BBC Tuesday, 19 September, 2000, 23:24 GMT 00:24 UK

Recently declassified documents in the United States show that the former head of the secret police in Chile, Manuel Contreras, was a paid informant for the US intelligence agency, the CIA.

The report, comprising CIA documents requested by the US Congress, show that contact with Contreras began in 1974 - a year after the military coup that brought General Augusto Pinochet to power.

Contreras oversaw the much-feared security service DINA

The report adds that the contact was maintained until 1977 - a year after Contreras plotted the killing of the then Chilean Foreign Minister and foe of General Pinochet, Orlando Letelier, in Washington.

A BBC correspondent in Washington, Nick Bryant, says the documents reinforce the view that the US turned a blind eye towards political repression in Chile during the Pinochet era and that the CIA was complicit in many human rights abuses.

Pinochet's confidant

As head of the security service, DINA, Contreras became the one of the most feared men in Chile, second only to General Pinochet.

The general's iron rule was underpinned by the tactics of brutal repression that saw thousands die and thousands more flee into exile. Others disappeared or were tortured.



Of course, there are even more sulferous friends than these…

Bush s Longstanding Criminal Mexican Amigos

The disturbing ties of some of George W. Bush's Latino advisors

More on Bush-Amigos links in PBS Frontline interview with Gary Jacobs

By Julie Reynolds
Research assistance by Victor Almazán and Ana Leonor Rojo


“Dime con quién andas y te diré quién eres. (Tell me who you side with and I will tell you who you are.)” – “George W. Bush for President” web site

Those who say that George W. Bush has scant knowledge of foreign affairs don't understand his family's relationship with Mexico.

If one event could be said to make that relationship visible, it had to be the state dinner given eleven years ago by President Bush for Mexico's president, Carlos Salinas. It was an elegant yet boisterous gala, where the biggest movers and shakers in Texas and Mexico congregated and celebrated. This group was to become W's Mexican legacy, a gift of ties and connections passed on from the father to his son.


The Mexican president had spent a long day with President Bush signing trade pacts, the precursors of NAFTA. Salinas brought his so-called Dream Team: his commerce secretary, finance minister, and his personal Machiavelli, Jose Córdoba. It would later be astounding to see, as the decade unfolded, how many of that administration's proud men and women fell shamefully from grace - some exiled, some imprisoned and some assassinated.

No one knew it then, but many at that banquet would survive to one day help young W beat a path back to the White House. There were loyal "Bushfellas" who were old friends of the family: Commerce Secretary Robert Mosbacher Sr., General Colin Powell, and George Bush Senior's ever-present friend, Secretary of State James Baker. Gary Jacobs, whose Texas bank was about to be bought by the son of Mexico's billionaire-politico Carlos Hank González, was also a guest. Tony Garza, then a young judge, is now a Bush cabinet contender. Today, all are advisors or contributors to W's campaign.

Hidden among the glitterati were two relative unknowns. They were, however, familiar to the group at hand. They were the loyal "Amigos de Bush" from San Antonio: criminal defense lawyer Roy Barrera Jr. and car dealer Ernesto Ancira Jr. In contrast to the Salinas group, the ties of Barrera and Ancira to drug cartels would remain unnoticed for another decade. Their ties to George W. would grow stronger.


GOOGLE cache:

May also be at:


Henry Kissinger and Agusto Pinochet

“I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its people. The issues are much too important for the Chilean voters to be left to decide for themselves.” -- Henry A. Kissinger

Remember: If the guy Smirko Bush wanted to appoint as head of the 9-11 Commission feels that way about democracy in Chile, what’s there to make us think he and those for whom he toils believe differently about democracy in the United States of America?

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Response to Octafish (Reply #9)

Thu Oct 23, 2014, 08:01 PM

14. After reading that I feel like I need a shower.


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Response to Scuba (Reply #14)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 07:16 AM

21. One can get an idea of where the phrase ''collateral damage'' came from.

It is a most disgusting history, what happened Nov. 22, 1963. It is why I keep trying, to help us move on from "money trumps peace" to what really matters:

Justice. Democracy. The Republic. Freedom. Equality. The Commonwealth. Progress. A Better Tomorrow...

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Thu Oct 23, 2014, 06:16 PM

6. Ask Old Man Bush!

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Response to santamargarita (Reply #6)

Thu Oct 23, 2014, 07:02 PM

10. Details from the great Russ Baker via the great DUer Mc_Mike...

There's a good analysis of the Parrott memo in Russ Baker's book 'Family of Secrets'

It runs on pp 45 through 66 (paperback version). I'm not saying you must read my source, though. To sum it up: Poppy bush was in Dallas campaigning against Kennedy and the Democrats on 11-21 and 11-22 morning. He was in Tyler, Texas (he alleges) prepared to give a repug campaign speech, and heard that wires from Dallas confirmed that the President had been assassinated (1:38 pm Central). He didn’t give the political speech. Instead, a few minutes later, he called the FBI to 'finger' Parrott (1:45 pm Central) -- 'There's this guy who volunteers for the organization I'm leading, and he's been talking about killing Kennedy. Gee whiz, I hope he didn’t do anything rash against the guy I’ve been railing against in my Senate run. By the way, I’m not in Dallas, I used my oil buddy’s private jet to go to Tyler, and I’ll use it to go back to Dallas, now'. Fortunately for James Parrott, at the exact same time of the call, Poppy's right hand man in the Harris County repug Party, Kearney Reynolds, was visiting Parrott on behalf of bush to coordinate repug campaign activities with him, and so could provide an alibi to the FBI for Parrott. So what was the point?

There are several points, actually. First, as author Russ Baker points out, bush phoned a FBI agent named Graham Kitchel with the tip. Graham's brother George, an offshore oil engineer, was good friends with Poppy, long-time friends according to an interview George K. himself gave. This ensured his useless tip, among hundreds of calls fielded on what may have been the most hectic day in the FBI’s history, would get action and documentation, unlike a lot of other ‘tips’ that weren’t worthy of documentation. It wasted the Feds’ time and resources, but that waste wasn’t caused in furtherance of a plot against JFK. What the documentation of bush’s ‘tip’ ‘from Tyler’ did, was ‘establish’ the ‘fact’ that bush wasn’t in Dallas, though he was in Dallas on the morning of the 22nd and (according to bush) ‘flew back and was in Dallas on the afternoon of the 22nd’. The FBI memo functioned as a paper trail that explained bush’s presence in Dallas before and after the assassination (because many people saw him there), and ‘established’ that he wasn’t there during it. The result of the useless tip was that “Parrott became Poppy’s alibi, and Poppy’s assistant became Parrott’s.”(--Baker, p. 61). It’s the Texas two step.

Hoover didn’t like the Kennedys, but had no lost love for bush’s bircher crowd, either. He also knew that if they could kill JFK, they could kill Hoover. His reaction to the bush ‘tip’ was a memo of his own a few days later, saying ‘Mr. George Bush of the CIA , we’ve been watching that crowd of armed extremist Batista Cubans you’ve been training, and we think they’re trying to use the assassination as a pretext to launch a war from our soil against Cuba. We know that’s illegal, and we ARE in the business of law enforcement, after all.’ (Those Cubans are the people who Oswald had documented involvement with, working both in favor of their cause and, as the only documented member of the FPCC in New Orleans, ‘against’ their cause. Carlos Bringuier, Antonio Veciana, Col. Orlando Piedro, Sergio Arcacha Smith – those Cubans.)

Hoover’s memo was also important because Poppy denied being in the CIA until he was appointed to lead it, and denies having been in the CIA from the 50’s – 70’s, to this day. Hoover blew bush’s cover, quite purposefully, and told bush’s crowd that they had reached the end of their chain, in action terms.

The reaction to Hoover’s move was an immediate set of leaks in December to Dallas D.A. Wade and ‘friendly’ (to right wing repugs) Dallas reporters saying that Oswald was an FBI informant. And in January, Texas A. G. Waggoner Carr sent Warren Commission General Counsel Rankin a memo about the allegations. Carr said the allegations came from Dallas D.A. Wade, and Wade was unable or unwilling to specify the source of them. That’s the Texas repugs and CIA man bush’s crowd saying ‘How about we pin the assassination on you, Hoover?’

Interestingly, when D.A. Wade was giving a late night press conference as Nov. 22 ended, he identified Oswald as a member of the ‘Free Cuba Committee’. He was corrected by a strip-club owner named Jack Ruby, who had mixed in with the crowd of reporters, and who said ‘That’s the Fair Play for Cuba Committee.’ (The Crusade to Free Cuba Committee was an anti-Castro pro Batista Cuban expatriate crowd who had offices in the New Orleans building at 544 Camp Street. Oswald distributed flyers stamped with that address for the pro-Castro FPCC, he distributed those flyers on the street outside that building, and used that building as a base for his ‘work on behalf of’ Castro.)

I remember discussing Wade’s actions with Zap, the DU WC advocate last year. Why would a DA in a high profile international press conference take public correction from a mob flunky, instead of having the cops remove the guy from the room? How did a mob flunky strip club owner come to have such in depth knowledge about obscure pro and anti Castro groups, to make sure that the anti-Castro group didn’t get blamed, but the pro-Castro group did get blamed? Those two lines from the press conference showed that Wade knew Ruby, and Ruby knew Oswald, but the response to my question from Zap was a glib ‘Why don’t you ask Wade?’, (who is dead).

And finally, regarding Parrott: Baker’s book talked about an interview conducted with Parrott in ’93. The high interest in the Kennedy assassination in the early ‘90’s had led to Congress unanimously passing the President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of ’92, which caused the Parrott memo to be released. This generated interest in Parrott, and he gave an interview in ’93. He noted that he had worked for bush’s re-election campaign in ’92, and “in an article covering the frenzied GOP-convention podium attacks on the Clinton-Gore team over family values, Parrott is described as passing out flyers saying ‘no queers or baby killing’, while wearing a plastic shield over his face, explaining that it was protection against the AIDS virus.” (-- Baker, p. 63, sourced to Minneapolis Star-Tribune reporter Steve Berg, 8-19-92.) Parrott was a teabagger 17 years before the movement existed. He suffered no harm from bush’s ‘tip’. If he did, bush wouldn’t have cared, because Parrott is deranged teabag cannon fodder. But he didn’t.

Parrott’s party activism illustrates a point: for those of us who find the ‘official story’ yarn spun by the Warren Commission to be composed of a thousand loose threads, we’re not just re-hashing academic historical facts about the murder of JFK. We believe that the people who committed the crime benefitted from it, and they and their heirs are still around hurting the country. Exposing them will help prevent them from hurting the country more.

Original Post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024070535#post186

More from Russ Baker: http://whowhatwhy.com/2013/09/16/part-1-mr-george-bush-of-the-central-intelligence-agency/

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Response to Octafish (Reply #10)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 08:46 AM

23. !

I can easily say, without hyperbole, that you've made my week, Octa.

Thanks, and thanks for all the good info you post.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #10)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 10:58 AM

25. Thanks...

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Response to santamargarita (Reply #25)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 03:55 PM

29. You are most welcome, santamargarita. I forgot to post the Poppy Bush FBI memos...

In the hour of the death of President John F. Kennedy, Texas oilman George Herbert Walker Bush, telephoned the FBI and named a suspect in a "confidential" phone call. He then added he was heading for Dallas.

Here's a transcript of the text:




At 1:45 p.m. Mr. GEORGE H. W. BUSH, President of the Zapata Off-Shore Drilling Company, Houston, Texas, residence 5525 Briar, Houston, telephonically furnished the following information to writer by long distance telephone call from Tyler, Texas.

BUSH stated that he wanted to be kept confidential but wanted to furnish hearsay that he recalled hearing in recent weeks, the day and source unknown. He stated that one JAMES PARROTT has been talking of killing the President when he comes to Houston.

BUSH stated that PARROTT is possibly a student at the University of Houston and is active in political matters in this area. He stated that he felt Mrs. FAWLEY, telephone number SU 2-5239, or ARLINE SMITH, telephone number JA 9-9194 of the Harris County Republican Party Headquarters would be able to furnish additional information regarding the identity of PARROTT.

BUSH stated that he was proceeding to Dallas, Texas, would remain in the Sheraton-Dallas Hotel and return to his residence on 11-23-63. His office telephone number is CA 2-0395.

# # #

Gee. Why was Poppy Bush in Dallas when JFK was assassinated?

Could it be, he was on official business? I suspect he was on Secret Government business. After all, his eldest son bragged during his Texas Air National Guard and Harvard grad school days that his daddy was CIA.

Here's an FBI document from the same week of the assassination in which FBI Director J Edgar Hoover briefed one "Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency." Some strange coincidence there, wot?

Here's a transcript of the above:

Date: November 29, 1963

To: Director
Bureau of Intelligence and Research
Department of State

From: John Edgar Hoover, Director

NOVEMBER 22, 1963

Our Miami, Florida, Office on November 23, 1963, advised that the Office of Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in Miami advised that the Department of State feels some misguided anti-Castro group might capitalize on the present situation and undertake an unauthorized raid against Cuba, believing that the assassination of President John F. Kennedy might herald a change in U. S. policy, which is not true.

Our sources and informants familiar with Cuban matters in the Miami area advise that the general feeling in the anti-Castro Cuban community is one of stunned disbelief and, even among those who did not entirely agree with the President's policy concerning Cuba, the feeling is that the President's death represents a great loss not only to the U. S. but to all of Latin America. These sources know of no plans for unauthorized action against Cuba.

An informant who has furnished reliable information in the past and who is close to a small pro-Castro group in Miami has advised that these individuals are afraid that the assassination of the President may result in strong repressive measures being taken against them and, although pro-Castro in their feelings, regret the assassination.

The substance of the foregoing information was orally furnished to Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency and Captain William Edwards of the Defense Intelligence Agency on November 23, 1963, by Mr. W. T. Forsyth of this Bureau.

# # #

Hmm. "Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency."

Russ Baker in his "Family of Secrets" discussed these memos (which many first learned about on DU). Keep an eye peeled for David Talbot, who is working on Allen Dulles' connections to the assassination. If you see it before I do, please give me a heads-up.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #29)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 06:01 PM

36. You sure do your homework, Octafish. Thanks again!

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Thu Oct 23, 2014, 06:50 PM

7. LBJ

Why was LBJ on the floor of his car entering Nealy plaza? Roger Stones' 'The Man Who killed Kennedy" , is a very good read.

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Response to tiptonic (Reply #7)

Thu Oct 23, 2014, 07:17 PM

12. I think maybe i should get that book

I was concerned that since it was written by republican It was simply trying to blame JFK assassination on another Democrat.The Idea
of Johnson behind though Isn't new one.

If you find the online video JFK2 they present evidance of Poppy Bush's CIA connections how Prescot Bush had nazi connections,and while Hoover was scumbag he didn't like nazis,and left evidance lying around Bush was CIA.The code name for Bay of pigs invasion
just happened to be same name as oil compnay Bush ran and one of ships used was named barbara.

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Response to tiptonic (Reply #7)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 07:07 AM

20. Thanks for the heads-up. Not crazy about Roger, as he's a GOP operator...

I will learn more about his book.

President Kennedy's military aide, a few years back, reported LBJ was very disturbed by what he had experienced in Dealey Plaza:

Kennedy Military Aide: LBJ Hid in Bathroom, Cried After JFK Assassination.

Steven M. Gillon
Resident historian of the History Channel
Huffington Post

This month will mark the 46th anniversary of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. A recently declassified oral history by Brigadier General Godfrey McHugh, President Kennedy's military aide on the Dallas trip, sheds new light on the critical hours after the shooting. McHugh makes startling claims about Lyndon Johnson's behavior in the wake of the assassination.

The interview with McHugh, originally conducted for the John F. Kennedy Library in 1978, remained closed for 31 years. It was finally declassified in the spring of 2009. I just happened to be working at the Kennedy Library on the day the interview was opened to the public and have used it for the first time in my new book, The Kennedy Assassination -- 24 Hours After.

After being informed at Parkland Hospital that Kennedy was dead, Johnson raced back to Air Force One, where he waited for Mrs. Kennedy and the body of the slain president, and made preparations to take the Oath of Office. Back at the hospital, the Kennedy group loaded the body into a coffin, forced their way past a local justice of the peace, and hurried back to Love Field for the long ride back to Washington.

It was standard practice for the plane to take off as soon as the commander-in-chief was onboard. Even after McHugh had ordered the pilot to take off, however, "nothing happened." According to the newly declassified transcript, Mrs. Kennedy was becoming desperate to leave. "Mrs. Kennedy was getting very warm, she had blood all over her hat, her coat...his brains were sticking on her hat. It was dreadful," McHugh said. She pleaded with him to get the plane off the ground. "Please, let's leave," she said. McHugh jumped up and used the phone near the rear compartment to call Captain James Swindal. "Let's leave," he said. Swindal responded: "I can't do it. I have orders to wait." Not wanting to make a scene in front of Mrs. Kennedy, McHugh rushed to the front of the plane. "Swindal, what on earth is going on?" The pilot told him that "the President wants to remain in this area."



There are many important reads on the subject of the assassination of President Kennedy:

Rush to Judgment -- Mark Lane

Accessories After the Fact -- Sylvia Meagher

On the Trail of the Assassins -- Jim Garrison

Whitewash -- Harold Weisberg

The Echo From Dealey Plaza -- Abraham Bolden

Plausible Denial -- Mark Lane

Spy Saga -- Philip Melanson

Treachery in Dallas -- Walt Brown

The Man Who Knew Too Much -- Dick Russell

JFK and Vietnam -- John M. Newman

Deep Politics and the Death of JFK -- Peter Dale Scott

Oswald and the CIA -- John M. Newman

The Last Investigation -- Gaeton Fonzi

Destiny Betrayed: JFK, Cuba, and the Garrison Case -- James DiEugenio

Deadly Secrets -- Warren Hinckle and William Turner

Act of Treason -- Mark North

JFK -- Fletcher Prouty

Not in Your Lifetime -- Anthony Summers

Crossfire -- Jim Marrs

High Treason -- Harrison Edward Livingstone and Robert J. Groden

High Treason 2 -- Harrison Edward Livingstone

The Killing of a President -- Robert J. Groden

Coup d'Etat in America -- Alan J. Weberman and Michael Canfield

First Hand Knowledge: How I Participated in the CIA-Mafia Murder of President Kennedy -- Robert D. Morrow

Who Killed JFK? -- Carl Oglesby

Brothers -- David Talbot

A Farewell to Justice -- Joan Mellen

Family of Secrets -- Russ Baker

Breach of Trust -- Gerald D. McKnight

Our Man in Mexico: Winston Scott and the Hidden History of the CIA -- Jefferson Morley

Perils of Dominance: Imbalance of Power and the Road to War in Vietnam -- Gareth Porter

JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters -- James Douglass

The Last Word -- Mark Lane

Having read these, I would recommend any of these books, as they are top shelf works.

I have not read these, but plan to:

Nexus: The CIA and Political Assassination -- Larry Hancock

Crime and Cover-Up -- Peter Dale Scott

JFK vs. CIA: The Central Intelligence Agency's Assassination of the President -- Michael Calder

If you need a good overview, tiptonic, and have time for just one book, I would recommend "Not in Your Lifetime" by Anthony Summers. It was first issued as "Conspiracy," but it stands as a good primer, sticking to fact.

If you are familiar with the controversies surrounding the case, I would recommend "JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters" by James Douglass. He goes into detail to paint the big picture.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Thu Oct 23, 2014, 06:55 PM

8. It seems the CIA doesn't change their playbook much

The same play about torture

Timely thread, Der Fishie.

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Response to hootinholler (Reply #8)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 12:11 PM

27. They certainly don't like leaving anything to chance.

Their problem is they don't know what they don't need to know, and they don't know what they do need to know. And I certainly don't mean to call all of them "Gestapo," just the NAZI ones.

People who pointed this out include Sen. Frank Church. The great Democrat from Idaho was a liberal patriot, a war hero and a statesman, truly an extraordinary American.

Standing up for the United States Constitution and We the People, Frank Church also led the last real investigation of CIA, NSA and FBI. When it came to NSA Tech circa 1975, he warned if it were turned on the American people, it's "Goodnight, Democracy." So, the NSA spied on him:

“That capability at any time could be turned around on the American people and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything: telephone conversations, telegrams, it doesn’t matter. There would be no place to hide. If this government ever became a tyranny, if a dictator ever took charge in this country, the technological capacity that the intelligence community has given the government could enable it to impose total tyranny, and there would be no way to fight back, because the most careful effort to combine together in resistance to the government, no matter how privately it was done, is within the reach of the government to know. Such is the capability of this technology.

I don’t want to see this country ever go across the bridge. I know the capability that is there to make tyranny total in America, and we must see it that this agency and all agencies that possess this technology operate within the law and under proper supervision, so that we never cross over that abyss. That is the abyss from which there is no return.”

-- Sen. Frank Church (D-Idaho) FDR New Deal, Liberal, Progressive, World War II combat veteran. A brave man, the NSA was turned on him. Coincidentally, he narrowly lost re-election a few years later.

And what happened to Church, for his trouble to preserve Democracy:

In 1980, Church will lose re-election to the Senate in part because of accusations of his committee’s responsibility for Welch’s death by his Republican opponent, Jim McClure.

SOURCE: http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=frank_church_1

From GWU's National Security Archives:

"Disreputable if Not Outright Illegal": The National Security Agency versus Martin Luther King, Muhammad Ali, Art Buchwald, Frank Church, et al.

Newly Declassified History Divulges Names of Prominent Americans Targeted by NSA during Vietnam Era

Declassification Decision by Interagency Panel Releases New Information on the Berlin Crisis, the Cuban Missile Crisis, and the Panama Canal Negotiations

National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book No. 441
Posted – September 25, 2013
Originally Posted - November 14, 2008
Edited by Matthew M. Aid and William Burr

Washington, D.C., September 25, 2013 – During the height of the Vietnam War protest movements in the late 1960s and early 1970s, the National Security Agency tapped the overseas communications of selected prominent Americans, most of whom were critics of the war, according to a recently declassified NSA history. For years those names on the NSA's watch list were secret, but thanks to the decision of an interagency panel, in response to an appeal by the National Security Archive, the NSA has released them for the first time. The names of the NSA's targets are eye-popping. Civil rights leaders Dr. Martin Luther King and Whitney Young were on the watch list, as were the boxer Muhammad Ali, New York Times journalist Tom Wicker, and veteran Washington Post humor columnist Art Buchwald. Also startling is that the NSA was tasked with monitoring the overseas telephone calls and cable traffic of two prominent members of Congress, Senators Frank Church (D-Idaho) and Howard Baker (R-Tennessee).


Another NSA target was Senator Frank Church, who started out as a moderate Vietnam War critic. A member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee even before the Tonkin Gulf incident, Church worried about U.S. intervention in a "political war" that was militarily unwinnable. While Church voted for the Tonkin Gulf resolution, he later saw his vote as a grave error. In 1965, as Lyndon Johnson made decisions to escalate the war, Church argued that the United States was doing "too much," criticisms that one White House official said were "irresponsible." Church had been one of Johnson's Senate allies but the President was angry with Church and other Senate critics and later suggested that they were under Moscow's influence because of their meetings with Soviet diplomats. In the fall of 1967, Johnson declared that "the major threat we have is from the doves" and ordered FBI security checks on "individuals who wrote letters and telegrams critical of a speech he had recently delivered." In that political climate, it is not surprising that some government officials eventually nominated Church for the watch list.[10]

SOURCE: http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB441/

I wonder if Sen. Richard Schweiker (R-CT) also got the treatment from NSA? Sort of anti-buy partisanship, that Integrity.

“I think that the report, to those who have studied it closely, has collapsed like a house of cards, and I think the people who read it in the long run future will see that. I frankly believe that we have shown that the [investigation of the] John F. Kennedy assassination was snuffed out before it even began, and that the fatal mistake the Warren Commission made was not to use its own investigators, but instead to rely on the CIA and FBI personnel, which played directly into the hands of senior intelligence officials who directed the cover-up.” — Senator Richard Schweiker on “Face the Nation” in 1976.

Lost to History NOT

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Thu Oct 23, 2014, 07:11 PM

11. 9/11 Commission co-chairmen: The CIA and White House "obstructed our investigation."

Stonewalled by the C.I.A.
January 2, 2008

The commission’s mandate was sweeping and it explicitly included the intelligence agencies. But the recent revelations that the C.I.A. destroyed videotaped interrogations of Qaeda operatives leads us to conclude that the agency failed to respond to our lawful requests for information about the 9/11 plot. Those who knew about those videotapes — and did not tell us about them — obstructed our investigation.


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Response to johnnyreb (Reply #11)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 04:38 PM

35. CIA and White House also obstructed the Warren Commission.

Going from the people I've asked, most Americans don't know their government went into business with the Mafia in 1960 when Ike and Nixon were in office. President Lyndon B. Johnson termed the government-criminal relationship a "damned Murder Inc. in the Caribbean." The man at CIA who approved the arrangement to hire the Mob and its killers to "eliminate" Cuban leader Fidel Castro was Allen Dulles. Sacked at CIA by Kennedy post Bay of Pigs, Dulles was named to "serve" on the Warren Commission by LBJ. For reasons that are now made clear by documents released over the past half century, Dulles and CIA failed to inform the Warren Commission and the nation of their murderous enterprise against Castro, as well as their active operational interest in Lee Harvey Oswald.

The documents referred to in the OP are records involving CIA agent George Joannides, the agency's anti-Castro spearhead in New Orleans. For some reason, the national security state doesn't want the People to know what was Joannides doing there in regards to Lee Harvey Oswald, who came in major and public with CIA affiliated anti-Castro exiles working for Joannides, the DRE - Directorio Revolucionario Estudantil.

When the House Select Committee on Assassinations when Eddie Lopez and Dan Hardway were HSCA investigators working reading any document they wanted at CIA and making good progress in their investigation, Joannides was called out of retirement to hamper the two.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Thu Oct 23, 2014, 07:21 PM

13. The Warren Commission answered all pressing questions and brought us desperately needed closure

Praise Jeebus! The System works!

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Response to RufusTFirefly (Reply #13)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 10:16 PM

37. ''It's heavy.''

What LBJ said when handed Warren Report 50 years ago.

The great DUer Jim diEugenio sums it up precisely:


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Response to Octafish (Reply #37)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 11:18 PM

40. Interesting! Didn't realize DiEugenio was a DUer. n/t

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Response to RufusTFirefly (Reply #40)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 11:58 PM

41. Welcomed and interrogated.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #41)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 12:28 AM

42. Fascinating. Thanks! Somehow I missed that whole exchange.

I think I must have been taking a periodic DU holiday at the time. Also brought back unpleasant memories of a certain abnormally persistent poster I'd almost forgotten about.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:08 PM

15. Octafish, you are one of the best.


You are a wealth of resources and knowledge that is rare and not easy to find.

We are privileged to have you as a member of DU. You have never left and have stayed true.

Thank you!

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Response to 7wo7rees (Reply #15)

Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:32 PM

16. What 7wo7rees said.

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Response to Karmadillo (Reply #16)

Sun Oct 26, 2014, 09:44 AM

47. Poppy Bush tells Ed Koch 'nothing I can do' to stop your assassin, yet he ran CIA & Op CONDOR

The following report should be read by anybody who cares about the United States of America.

'I’m sorry, Ed. There’s nothing I can do': Shocking untold tale of the Chilean government's plot to KILL Ed Koch...and how CIA director George Bush couldn't help

* Then a New York congressman, Koch won the ire of South American dictators he'd begun a crusade to help oust in the name of democracy

* Exiled Chilean ambassador Orlando Letelier was assassinated days before Koch was warned in a shocking act of terrorism in Washington

* A new book links the threat on Koch to what was known as Operation Condor, a top secret terrorism corps involving Pinochet and other despots

The Condor Years, John Dinges reveals Bush knew of Condor threats against Koch but failed to warn him until Letelier's spectacular murder

Daily Mail (London), PUBLISHED: 10:58 EST, 18 February 2014

Ed Koch's status as a beloved New York City mayor hid a shocking untold history: the late politician was the target of a widespread South American terror operation's 70s-era assassination plot, a new book revealed Tuesday.

While still serving as a New York congressman working to oust ruthless despots from beleaguered countries like Chile and Uruguay, Koch received a phone call in 1976 from then-CIA Director George H.W. Bush telling the future mayor to watch his back.

Just days before, Washington saw its worst act of terror ever when an exiled Chilean ambassador was snuffed out with a car bomb on Embassy Row. Bush called to tell Koch he was next, and there was nothing he could do.

'Listen, my agents have gotten news that there’s a contract out on your life,' Bush told the horrified four-term congressman in a conversation recalled to author John Dinges by Koch.


Cue Operation Condor: an alliance of six Latin American countries led by Chile and Pinochet which formed secretly as a means of collaborating when one country wanted an enemy on foreign soil dead.



PS: Thanks, Karmadillo. Means the world.

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Response to 7wo7rees (Reply #15)

Thu Oct 23, 2014, 11:40 PM

17. Yes we are very privileged.

Octafish is one of many great DUers who helped me understand that I am a Democrat. So much for the debunker-wannabes' supposed raison d'être, that he'll scare Dems away. A song then!


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Response to johnnyreb (Reply #17)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 12:33 AM

19. Nice anthrm. Thanks for sharing. n/t

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Response to johnnyreb (Reply #17)

Sun Oct 26, 2014, 10:31 AM

48. CIA Director Bush helped destroy HSCA investigation.

He not only shut down discussion, Bush worked to hide his and the CIA's affiliation with the assassination of President Kennedy. Take George Joannides. Bush, the record shows, also begged Jimmy Carter to keep him on at CIA.

FTR: That's the same George Herbert Walker Bush who told the FBI he was in Dallas on November 22, 1963. What a coincidence.

PS: Thank you, johnnyreb. Feelings mutual.

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Response to 7wo7rees (Reply #15)

Thu Oct 23, 2014, 11:53 PM

18. here here....nt

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Response to Jesus Malverde (Reply #18)

Sun Oct 26, 2014, 11:44 AM

49. New NSA docs contradict Bush Administration 9-11 claims

New NSA docs contradict 9/11 claims

“I don’t think the Bush administration would want to see these released," an expert tells Salon

By Jordan Michael Smith
Tuesday, Jun 19, 2012 04:24 PM EDT

Over 120 CIA documents concerning 9/11, Osama bin Laden and counterterrorism were published today for the first time, having been newly declassified and released to the National Security Archive. The documents were released after the NSA pored through the footnotes of the 9/11 Commission and sent Freedom of Information Act requests.

The material contains much new information about the hunt before and after 9/11 for bin Laden, the development of the drone campaign in AfPak, and al-Qaida’s relationship with America’s ally, Pakistan. Perhaps most damning are the documents showing that the CIA had bin Laden in its cross hairs a full year before 9/11 — but didn’t get the funding from the Bush administration White House to take him out or even continue monitoring him. The CIA materials directly contradict the many claims of Bush officials that it was aggressively pursuing al-Qaida prior to 9/11, and that nobody could have predicted the attacks. “I don’t think the Bush administration would want to see these released, because they paint a picture of the CIA knowing something would happen before 9/11, but they didn’t get the institutional support they needed,” says Barbara Elias-Sanborn, the NSA fellow who edited the materials.


Former National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice has taken credit for the drone program that the Bush administration ignored. “Things like working to get an armed Predator that actually turned out to be extraordinarily important, working to get a strategy that would allow us to get better cooperation from Pakistan and from the Central Asians,” she said in 2006. “We were not left a comprehensive strategy to fight al-Qaida.” Rice claimed that the Bush administration continued the Clinton administration’s counterterrorism policies, a claim the documents disprove. “If the administration wanted to get it done, I’m sure they could have gotten it done,” says Elias-Sanborn.

Many of the documents publicize for the first time what was first made clear in the 9/11 Commission: The White House received a truly remarkable amount of warnings that al-Qaida was trying to attack the United States. From June to September 2001, a full seven CIA Senior Intelligence Briefs detailed that attacks were imminent, an incredible amount of information from one intelligence agency. One from June called “Bin-Ladin and Associates Making Near-Term Threats” writes that “[redacted] expects Usama Bin Laden to launch multiple attacks over the coming days.” The famous August brief called “Bin Ladin Determined to Strike the US” is included. “Al-Qai’da members, including some US citizens, have resided in or travelled to the US for years, and the group apparently maintains a support structure here,” it says. During the entire month of August, President Bush was on vacation at his ranch in Texas — which tied with one of Richard Nixon’s as the longest vacation ever taken by a president. CIA Director George Tenet has said he didn’t speak to Bush once that month, describing the president as being “on leave.” Bush did not hold a Principals’ meeting on terrorism until September 4, 2001, having downgraded the meetings to a deputies’ meeting, which then-counterterrorism czar Richard Clarke has repeatedly said slowed down anti-Bin Laden efforts “enormously, by months.”



PS: Thank you, Jesus Malverde. Palante, Compay. Siempre palante.

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Response to 7wo7rees (Reply #15)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 04:07 PM

33. Agreed. Octafish is one of the main reason I keep coming back here (n/t)

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Response to 7wo7rees (Reply #15)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 10:38 PM

39. You are most welcome, 7wo7rees!

Here's something important that we Democrats can share thanks to DU:

Nixon approved hiring a Secret Service man who said he'd 'kill on command' to guard Ted Kennedy. You can hear Nixon and Haldeman discuss it, about 40 minutes into the HBO documentary "Nixon by Nixon." While I had read the part of the transcript available years ago, and wrote about it on DU, almost no one I know has heard anything about it.

Ted Kennedy survived Richard Nixon's Plots

By Don Fulsom

In September 1972, Nixon’s continued political fear, personal loathing, and jealously of Kennedy led him to plant a spy in Kennedy’s Secret Service detail.

The mole Nixon selected for the Kennedy camp was already being groomed. He was a former agent from his Nixon’s vice presidential detail, Robert Newbrand—a man so loyal he once pledged he would do anything—even kill—for Nixon.

The President was most interested in learning about the Sen. Kennedy’s sex life. He wanted, more than anything, stated Haldeman in The Ends of Power, to “catch (Kennedy) in the sack with one of his babes.”

In a recently transcribed tape of a September 8, 1972 talk among the President and aides Bob Haldeman and Alexander Butterfield, Nixon asks whether Secret Service chief James Rowley would appoint Newbrand to head Kennedy’s detail:

Haldeman: He's to assign Newbrand.

President Nixon: Does he understand that he's to do that?

Butterfield: He's effectively already done it. And we have a full force assigned, 40 men.

Haldeman: I told them to put a big detail on him (unclear).

President Nixon: A big detail is correct. One that can cover him around the clock, every place he goes. (Laughter obscures mixed voices.)

President Nixon: Right. No, that's really true. He has got to have the same coverage that we give the others, because we're concerned about security and we will not assume the responsibility unless we're with him all the time.

Haldeman: And Amanda Burden (one of Kennedy’s alleged girlfriends) can't be trusted. (Unclear.) You never know what she might do. (Unclear.)

Haldeman then assures the President that Newbrand “will do anything that I tell him to … He really will. And he has come to me twice and absolutely, sincerely said, "With what you've done for me and what the President's done for me, I just want you to know, if you want someone killed, if you want anything else done, any way, any direction …"

President Nixon: The thing that I (unclear) is this: We just might get lucky and catch this son-of-a-bitch and ruin him for '76.

Haldeman: That's right.

President Nixon: He doesn't know what he's really getting into. We're going to cover him, and we are not going to take "no" for an answer. He can't say "no." The Kennedys are arrogant as hell with these Secret Service. He says, "Fine," and (Newbrand) should pick the detail, too.

Toward the end of this conversation, Nixon exclaims that Newbrand’s spying “(is) going to be fun,” and Haldeman responds: “Newbrand will just love it.”

Nixon also had a surveillance tip for Haldeman for his spy-to-be: “I want you to tell Newbrand if you will that (unclear) because he's a Catholic, sort of play it, he was for Jack Kennedy all the time. Play up to Kennedy, that "I'm a great admirer of Jack Kennedy." He's a member of the Holy Name Society. He wears a St. Christopher (unclear).” Haldeman laughs heartily at the President’s curious advice.

Despite the enthusiasm of Nixon and Haldeman, Newbrand apparently never produced anything of great value. When this particular round of Nixon’s spying on Kennedy was uncovered in 1997, The Washington Post quoted Butterfield as saying periodic reports on Kennedy's activities were delivered to Haldeman, but that Butterfield did not think any potentially damaging information was ever dug up.



Why does that matter? The Warren Commission, and the nation's mass media, never heard about the CIA-Mafia plots to kill Castro until the Church Committee in 1975. You'd think that would be a matter of concern to all Americans, especially considering how then-vice president Nixon was head of the "White House Action Team" that contacted the Mafia for murder.

Thank you for the kind words, 7wo7rees. I feel the same about you and DU. Working together, we can keep the truth alive until the day Justice hands down indictments for the traitors and warmongers.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 10:28 AM

24. k&r and as always, thanks for posting.


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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #24)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 10:59 AM

26. Amen! K and R. nt

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 02:13 PM

28. The longer I live, the more convinced I am that the CIA is simply


the Bush cabal's own private security force, designed to look like it is a government agency. I'm not sure if Poppy "inherited" it, or ascended to the helm of that ship, or both, but that's kinda what I think. If there are other actors, they would actually be very few, but mighty powerful. They would be the cream of the crop at Bilderberg meetings, for example. But mostly, just Bushes. ?

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Response to silvershadow (Reply #28)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 02:43 PM

46. Know your BFEE: Spawn of Wall Street and the Third Reich

Members of the Bush Family Evil Empire -- the public face of the War Party that has hijacked America -- embody the spawn of the Fourth Reich and Wall Street.

Warmonger by John Carroll.

Like the NAZI gangster warmongers they are, the BFEE's "work" serves only to enrich their cronies and their "actions" penure, enslave and kill innocent people.

How they got that way:

Allen Dulles, the NAZIs, and the CIA

By Cory Panshin
March 2005

Supreme Court Justice Arthur Goldberg once stated that "The Dulles brothers were traitors." Some historians believe that Allen Dulles became head of the newly formed CIA in large part to cover up his treasonous behavior and that of his clients.

-- Christian Dewar, Making a Killing

Just before his death, James Jesus Angleton, the legendary chief of counterintelligence at the Central Intelligence Agency, was a bitter man. He felt betrayed by the people he had worked for all his life. In the end, he had come to realize that they were never really interested in American ideals of "freedom" and "democracy." They really only wanted "absolute power."

Angleton told author Joseph Trento that the reason he had gotten the counterintelligence job in the first place was by agreeing not to submit "sixty of Allen Dulles' closest friends" to a polygraph test concerning their business deals with the Nazis. In his end-of-life despair, Angleton assumed that he would see all his old companions again "in hell."

-- Michael Hasty, Paranoid Shift


Allen Welsh Dulles was born to privilege and a tradition of public service. He was the grandson of one secretary of state and the nephew of another. But by the time he graduated from Princeton in 1914, the robber baron era of American history was coming to an an end, ushered out by the Sherman Anti-Trust Act -- which had been used in 1911 to break up Standard Oil -- and by the institution of the progressive income tax in 1913. The ruling elite was starting to view government less as their own private preserve and more as an unwanted intrusion on their ability to conduct business as usual. That shift of loyalties in itself may account for many of the paradoxical aspects of Dulles's career.

Dulles entered the diplomatic service after college and served as a State Department delegate to the Paris Peace Conference of 1919, which brought a formal end to World War I. The Versailles Treaty which came out of this conference included a provision making it illegal to sell arms to Germany. This displeased the powerful DuPont family, and they put pressure on the delegates to allow them to opt out. It was Allen Dulles who finally gave them the assurances they wanted that their transactions with Germany would be "winked at."

Dulles remained a diplomat through the early 1920's, spending part of that time in Berlin. However, he left government service in 1926 for the greener pastures of private business, becoming a Wall Street lawyer with the same firm as his older brother, John Foster Dulles.

By the middle 20's, Germany had started recovering from the effects of the war and its postwar economic collapse, and the great German industrial firms were looking like attractive investment opportunities for wealthy Americans. W.A. Harriman & Co., formed in 1919 by Averell Harriman (son of railroad baron E.H. Hariman) and George Herbert Walker, had led the way in directing American money to German companies and had opened a Berlin branch as early as 1922, when Germany was still in chaos. At that time, Averell Harriman traveled to Europe and made contact with the powerful Thyssen family of steel magnates. It was to be a long-lasting and fateful partnership.



How they stay that way:

The CIA and Nazi War Criminals

National Security Archive Posts Secret CIA History
Released Under Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act

National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book No. 146

Edited by Tamara Feinstein

February 4, 2005

Washington D.C., February 4, 2005 - Today the National Security Archive posted the CIA's secret documentary history of the U.S government's relationship with General Reinhard Gehlen, the German army's intelligence chief for the Eastern Front during World War II. At the end of the war, Gehlen established a close relationship with the U.S. and successfully maintained his intelligence network (it ultimately became the West German BND) even though he employed numerous former Nazis and known war criminals. The use of Gehlen's group, according to the CIA history, Forging an Intelligence Partnership: CIA and the Origins of the BND, 1945-49, was a "double edged sword" that "boosted the Warsaw Pact's propaganda efforts" and "suffered devastating penetrations by the KGB."

The declassified "SECRET RelGER" two-volume history was compiled by CIA historian Kevin Ruffner and presented in 1999 by CIA Deputy Director for Operations Jack Downing to the German intelligence service (Bundesnachrichtendienst) in remembrance of "the new and close ties" formed during post-war Germany to mark the fiftieth year of CIA-West German cooperation. This history was declassified in 2002 as a result of the work of The Nazi War Crimes and Japanese Imperial Government Records Interagency Working Group (IWG) and contains 97 key documents from various agencies.

This posting comes in the wake of public grievances lodged by members of the IWG that the CIA has not fully complied with the mandate of the Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act and is continuing to withhold hundreds of thousands of pages of documentation related to their work. (Note 1) In interviews with the New York Times, three public members of the IWG said:

• "I think that the CIA has defied the law, and in so doing has also trivialized the Holocaust, thumbed its nose at the survivors of the Holocaust and also at the Americans who gave their lives in the effort to defeat the Nazis in World War II." - Former congresswoman Elizabeth Holtzman

• "I can only say that the posture the CIA has taken differs from all the other agencies that have been involved, and that's not a position we can accept." - Washington lawyer Richard Ben-Veniste

• "Too much has been secret for too long. The CIA has not complied with the statute." - Former federal prosecutor Thomas H. Baer

The IWG was established in January 11, 1999 and has overseen the declassification of about eight million pages of documents from multiple government agencies. Its mandate expires at the end of March 2005.



Who would want that NAZI records law to be ignored?

Here’s where the Bush Crime Family comes in:

Nazis and Bush family history:

Government investigated Bush family's financing of Hitler

By Carla Binion
December 21, 2000

This article on Nazis in the Republican party was originally published in Online Journal on 1/28/00. However, the following includes additional information regarding George H. W. Bush's father, Prescott, and his maternal grandfather, George Herbert (Bert) Walker, and the fact that the U. S. government investigated their financing of Adolf Hitler.

One book referenced here, Christopher Simpson's "Blowback," was praised by journalist Seymour Hersh as "the ultimate book about the worst kind of cold war thinking." Nora Levin, Director, Holocaust Archive, Gratz College, said "The full story of this country's shameful, cynical collaboration with Nazi criminals has not been told until now with the publication of Simpson's book." Congresswoman Elizabeth Holtzman said, 'Blowback' is a must read for anyone who wants to understand postwar policy on Nazi war criminals and the cold war."

In another Simpson book, "The Splendid Blonde Beast," the author wrote about George H. W. Bush's father, Prescott, and his maternal grandfather, George Herbert Walker. Both Bert Walker and Prescott Bush were powerful financial supporters of Adolf Hitler.

Walker was president of Union Banking Corporation, a firm that traded with Germany and helped German industrialists consolidate Hitler's political power. Simpson says Union Banking became a Nazi money-laundering machine.

Walker helped take over North American operations of Hamburg-Amerika Line, a shipping line and cover for I. G. Farben's Nazi espionage unit in the U. S. Hamburg-Amerika smuggled in German agents, and brought in money for bribing American politicians to support Hitler. A 1934 congressional investigation showed Hamburg-Amerika subsidized Nazi propaganda efforts in the U. S.



Gee. A certain class of people seem to benefit most from war. Here's a treasure trove of treason history:


The class Allen Dulles and Prescott Bush worked for. And the Bushes worked for THEM.

In answer to a question during his press conference of Feb. 14, 2007, Gov. George W Bush said: “Money trumps peace.”

Q: A lot of our allies in Europe do a lot of business with Iran. So I wonder what your thoughts are about how you further tighten the financial pressure on Iran, in particular, if it also means economic pain for a lot of our allies.

BUSH: It's an interesting question. One of the problems, not specifically on this issue, just in general, that - let's put it this way: Money trumps peace, sometimes.

In other words, commercial interests are very powerful interests throughout the world. And part of the issue in convincing people to put sanctions on a specific country is to convince them that it's in the world's interest that they forego their own financial interest.

And that's why sometimes it's tough to get tough economic sanctions on countries, and I'm not making any comment about any particular country, but you touched on a very interesting point.

You know - so, therefore, we're constantly working with nations to convince them that what really matters in the long run is to have the environment so peace can flourish.

In the Iranian case, I firmly believe that, if they were to have a weapon, it would make it difficult for peace to flourish, and therefore I am working with people to make sure that that concern trumps whatever commercial interests may be preventing governments from acting.

I make no specific accusation with that statement. It's a broad statement. But it's an accurate assessment of what sometimes can halt multilateral diplomacy from working.

SOURCE: http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=24507

“Money trumps peace.”

That does explain a lot. “Money trumps peace.”
In fact, that explains everything about everything in regards to the BFEE and their cronies in the War Party.
To them, money and power are everything.
Isn’t that the definition of a warmonger?
It also is the spirit of a NAZI.

The only thing that can stop them from becoming the Fourth Reich is...

... the Truth and We the People.

The above is an OP from way back

PS: Thank you, silvershadow. I agree with your analysis. Here's Pruneface Reagan and Richard the Crook enjoying the company of Glenn Seaborg and a bunch of swells at the Bohemian Grove in NoCal.

The BFEE works to keep wars going so the money keeps flowing to those who think they "deserve it." In the process, they've accomplished what not even Ian Fleming dared dream, hijacking the US government for personal gain.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 03:55 PM

30. Old News?

In my meanderings through the years here is what I have. I fully accept it may be old news:

According to old Joe Bonanno in his writings about the JFK assassination he said it was subbed out to Carlos Marcello's crew, going back to the hearings with RFK and JFK which resulted in Carolo's deportation. He was the Godfather of the oldest mafia group in America in NOLA. At first it was thought it was Giancana's crew. We know who subbed it out. Bonanno also met JFK at his ranch in Eloy, Az. before the Democratic National Convention in a sit down in 1959-1960 with Gus Battaglia where he supported Kennedy.
Bonanno also supported FDR. It was Marcello who became Republican after the deportation and the mob then supported Nixon.
Everyone wanted the Kennedy boys gone.

Another small piece of information I ferreted out is Robin Moore's
(Robert Lowell Moore) FBI file # 94-61092 linking to Fair Play
for Cuba. Moore was a writer and operative. His sister Marcia Moore was either murdered or died being a Ketamine advocate.Documented in AnnRule's book A Rage To Kill . This particular thread is fascinating. Robin Moore's father was the founder of Sheraton Hotels.
And of course there is much info out there about the CIA and Ketamine.

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Response to For Freddie (Reply #30)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 02:26 PM

45. Nixon, Mobsters, the CIA, Cuba and Kennedy...

What I got about the Mob and assassination comes from the Crew hired by Allen Dulles, when he "took orders" from Richard Nixon as Ike's White House "Action Officer" serving as liaison to CIA:

Richard Nixon's Greatest Cover-Up:
His Ties to the Assassination of President Kennedy

by Don Fulsom


Nixon confidant Robert Maheu fronted for the CIA on the Mob plots. A high-end private eye (and ex-FBI undercover operative) who functioned in the shadowy realm between U.S. intelligence services and the national criminal syndicate, Maheu had performed previous "dirty tricks" for both Nixon and Giancana. Hoffa had also been a client of Maheu, who would eventually become the top aide to Mob-and CIA-connected billionaire and Nixon financial angel Howard Hughes.

The hit on Castro was to have been carried out at the same time as the secret Nixon-Hunt plan for the invasion by CIA-trained exiles. The invasion was a military debacle when later ordered by President Kennedy — who publicly accepted full responsibility for the April 17, 1961 landing in which 1,500 exiles were quickly overwhelmed by some 20,000 Cuban troops. Convinced, however, that the CIA set him up, Kennedy fired CIA chief Allen Dulles — an old Nixon friend — and swore he'd dismantle the agency.

Nixon, Hunt, and many CIA and Cuban exile leaders pinned almost complete blame for the military catastrophe on Kennedy for not providing adequate air cover. At the time, Nixon told a reporter it was "near criminal" for Kennedy to have canceled the air cover. Privately, he must have been just as upset that Castro had not been bumped off. In one of his many books, Hunt later accused the president of "a failure of nerves."

Nixon's secret Mafia buddies, already enraged by Kennedy's anti-crime crusade in this country, were furious that their lucrative gambling casinos — shuttered by Castro — would not be returning to Cuba.

CONTINUED (Wayback cache)...


Thanks for the input, For Freddie! More info to run down and learn about...

BTW: A hearty welcome to DU! I look forward to reading and learning more from you.

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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 04:00 PM

32. K & R !!!


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Response to WillyT (Reply #32)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 02:02 PM

44. Ex-CIA Agent Said Castro Knew About JFK Assassination Ahead Of Time

Spies: Ex-CIA Agent In Raleigh Says Castro Knew About JFK Assassination Ahead Of Time

Former CIA agent and author Brian Latell in Raleigh

By The Raleigh Telegram

RALEIGH – A noted former Central Intelligence Agency officer, author, and scholar who is intimately knowledgeable about Cuba and Fidel Castro, says he believes there is evidence that Castro’s government knew about the assassination of President John F. Kennedy in 1963 ahead of time.


Robert Kennedy, as the Attorney General of the United States, was in charge of the operation, said Latell. Despite the United States’ best efforts, the operation was nonetheless penetrated by Cuban intelligence agents, said Latell.

Latell said there were two serious assassination attempts by the United States against Castro that even used members of the mafia to help, but both of them were obviously unsuccessful.

He also said that there was a plot by the United States to have Castro jabbed with a pen containing a syringe filled with a very effective poison. Latell said that he believes the experienced assassin who worked for Castro who originally agreed to the plan may have been a double agent. After meeting with a personal representative of Robert Kennedy in Paris, the man knew that the plan to assassinate Castro came from the highest levels of the government, including John F. and Robert Kennedy.

The plan was never carried out, as the man later defected to the United States, but with so many double agents working for Castro also pledging allegiance to the CIA, Latell said it was likely that the information got back to Havana that the Kennedy brothers endorsed that plot with the pen.



JFK had ordered CIA to stop the assassination program against Castro. So, why the effort to continue the lie? They're setting us up for the "limited hang-out," the fall-back position where they can argue that somebody else was in charge.

Kennedy Sought Dialogue with Cuba


Oval Office Tape Reveals Strategy to hold clandestine Meeting in Havana; Documents record role of ABC News correspondent Lisa Howard as secret intermediary in Rapprochement effort

Washington D.C. - On the 40th anniversary of the assassination of John F. Kennedy, and the eve of the broadcast of a new documentary film on Kennedy and Castro, the National Security Archive today posted an audio tape of the President and his national security advisor, McGeorge Bundy, discussing the possibility of a secret meeting in Havana with Castro. The tape, dated only seventeen days before Kennedy was shot in Dallas, records a briefing from Bundy on Castro's invitation to a U.S. official at the United Nations, William Attwood, to come to Havana for secret talks on improving relations with Washington. The tape captures President Kennedy's approval if official U.S. involvement could be plausibly denied.

The possibility of a meeting in Havana evolved from a shift in the President's thinking on the possibility of what declassified White House records called "an accommodation with Castro" in the aftermath of the Cuban Missile Crisis. Proposals from Bundy's office in the spring of 1963 called for pursuing "the sweet approach…enticing Castro over to us," as a potentially more successful policy than CIA covert efforts to overthrow his regime. Top Secret White House memos record Kennedy's position that "we should start thinking along more flexible lines" and that "the president, himself, is very interested in (the prospect for negotiations)." Castro, too, appeared interested. In a May 1963 ABC News special on Cuba, Castro told correspondent Lisa Howard that he considered a rapprochement with Washington "possible if the United States government wishes it. In that case," he said, "we would be agreed to seek and find a basis" for improved relations.

The untold story of the Kennedy-Castro effort to seek an accommodation is the subject of a new documentary film, KENNEDY AND CASTRO: THE SECRET HISTORY, broadcast on the Discovery/Times cable channel on November 25 at 8pm. The documentary film, which focuses on Ms. Howard's role as a secret intermediary in the effort toward dialogue, was based on an article -- "JFK and Castro: The Secret Quest for Accommodation" -- written by Archive Senior Analyst Peter Kornbluh in the magazine, Cigar Aficionado. Kornbluh served as consulting producer and provided key declassified documents that are highlighted in the film. "The documents show that JFK clearly wanted to change the framework of hostile U.S. relations with Cuba," according to Kornbluh. "His assassination, at the very moment this initiative was coming to fruition, leaves a major 'what if' in the ensuing history of the U.S. conflict with Cuba."

CONTINUED with links, resources...


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Response to Octafish (Original post)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 04:09 PM

34. The CIA interfering in other organizations? That is like saying water is wet.


People that believe otherwise, refuse to read any history on the CIA.

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Response to Rex (Reply #34)

Sat Oct 25, 2014, 01:50 PM

43. How the CIA Enlisted the Chicago Mob to Put a Hit on Castro (in 1960 -- Ike, Nixon, Dulles)

Ever wonder about the sanity of America's leaders? Take a close look at perhaps the most bizarre plot in U.S. intelligence history

By Bryan Smith
Chicago Magazine
November 2007
(page 4 of 6)


By September 1960, the project was proceeding apace. Roselli would report directly to Maheu. The first step was a meeting in New York. There, at the Plaza Hotel, Maheu introduced Roselli to O'Connell. The agent wanted to cover up the participation of the CIA, so he pretended to be a man named Jim Olds who represented a group of wealthy industrialists eager to get rid of Castro so they could get back in business.

"We may know some people," Roselli said. Several weeks later, they all met at the Fontainebleau Hotel in Miami. For years, the luxurious facility had served as the unofficial headquarters for Mafioso leaders seeking a base close to their gambling interests in Cuba. Now, it would be the staging area for the assassination plots.

At a meeting in one of the suites, Roselli introduced Maheu to two men: Sam Gold and a man Roselli referred to as Joe, who could serve as a courier to Cuba. By this time, Roselli was on to O'Connell. "I'm not kidding," Roselli told the agent one day. "I know who you work for. But I'm not going to ask you to confirm it."

Roselli may have figured out that he was dealing with the CIA, but neither Maheu nor O'Connell realized the rank of mobsters with whom they were dealing. That changed when Maheu picked up a copy of the Sunday newspaper supplement Parade, which carried an article laying out the FBI's ten most wanted criminals. Leading the list was Sam Giancana, a.k.a. "Mooney," a.k.a. "Momo," a.k.a. "Sam the Cigar," a Chicago godfather who was one of the most feared dons in the country—and the man who called himself Sam Gold. "Joe" was also on the list. His real name, however, was Santos Trafficante—the outfit's Florida and Cuba chieftain.

Maheu alerted O'Connell. "My God, look what we're involved with," Maheu said. O'Connell told his superiors. Questioned later before the 1975 U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (later nicknamed the Church Committee after its chairman, Frank Church, the Democratic senator from Idaho), O'Connell was asked whether there had ever been any discussion about asking two men on the FBI's most wanted list to carry out a hit on a foreign leader.

"Not with me there wasn't," O'Connell answered.

"And obviously no one said stop—and you went ahead."


"Did it bother you at all?"

"No," O'Connell answered, "it didn't."



PS: Water is wet all right: Wet as in ''Wetwork''

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