PC overkill on this forum

[AndreaCG]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by bluesbassman (a host of the General Discussion forum).

I just served on a jury where the complaint was that the word redhead was used in a post. There was nothing inflammatory after the word redhead, no insult. The mere use of the word made it an alert worthy post. The jury voted 7-0 to leave it.

I've been serving on a lot of juries lately, and frequently because the poster took offense at something similarly innocuous that was not even an insult directed at the poster the person responded to. It makes me think the RW has a point about the over PC attitude of us on the left. Can we PLEASE be a lot more judicious about when we alert a post and not take mere disagreement or even a sarcastic remark as flame bait? Thank you

[tkmorris]

1. That does seem a tad ridiculous

I can't say with certainty without seeing the post but as you present it it sounds like a completely frivolous alert.

[alphafemale]

2. I think there should be a limit to the number of times you can alert on a post.

Say, a limit of 7 a week or something.

[NYC_SKP]

5. Indeed, I agree. Also, software that identifies alert-stalking (bullying).

I know damn well that some members follow other members and alert on them.

New DU rules encourage it: if a member has even one hide, they cannot be a host.

It's pathetic and it should be addressed by the administers of this site.

[Voice for Peace]

140. maybe if a member makes a certain number of alerts

they should be investigated

[Spitfire of ATJ]

102. I've never alerted anything before...

Let's face it.

The Internet is a very hostile place.

Want proof?

I'm here.

[NCTraveler]

3. I don't see the point you are trying to make.

A jury voted 0-7 to leave a post and the concern is PC censorship. Seems you fully made the proper argument against your own case. First time I have seen an op make a point and refute the point without one reply.

[demmiblue]

4. +1

I don't get it!

[NYC_SKP]

11. The point is that overraction is silly and it makes us look stupid and it's not helpful.

If the member had bothered to read the article in the OP, they'd have seen that the use of the word came from a quote by Kaci Kickox's boyfriend:

Her boyfriend, Ted Wilbur, a nursing student in Fort Kent, Maine, said she had not planned on speaking to the news media but changed her mind after Mr. Christie said on Saturday that she was “obviously ill” when she knew she was not.

“Now he’s messed with the wrong redhead,” he said of her frame of mind.

The point is that people troll for things to alert on, or they don't bother looking for context, and it's just silliness and probably people who have never read the site rules.

I think it's a fair observation to say that sometimes people overreact but I also agree with you that the system works in the sense that the alert failed 7-0.

Personally, I think the moderator system was more consistent.

[seabeyond]

55. i think it is a proquarantine or christie going after posts because christie is such a weasel

and we are saying it clearly and some are not liking that. simply a way to try and shut it down. BUT... this is a progressive democratic board.

i think we get this one.

[NCTraveler]

92. "The point is that overraction is silly and it makes us look stupid and it's not helpful."

I don't see the overreaction. The op is the one who brought the results to us. Otherwise we would have never known. The op attempted to make the case that the site is too PC by bringing in an 0-7 leave it. It fully goes against common sense.

I also preferred the moderator system that was in place. I think it worked excellent. I also think it was a lot more hands on and demanding for the owners of the site. Under the old moderated system I would probably have a couple of hides right now. None currently pending under the new system. But once again, everything goes against the thought that this site is so PC that it is limiting conversation.

[pipi_k]

150. There's also another underlying issue, though...

that doesn't have anything to do with alerts and the jury system.

Even if people don't alert, too many will spend their time overreacting to word usage instead of actually trying to understand another person's point.

I've actually seen instances where someone will express an opinion pretty much consistent with the group at large, but someone else who may or may not hold that opinion will jump on that person because he or she was offended by a particular word (and the word itself was not offensive to the community at large).

Then, instead of a productive discussion on the issue, it all comes down to a matter of word usage. Again, involving a word that doesn't even have negative connotations.

It's gone way beyond what's socially offensive and into the realm of, "Don't offend MEEEEEEE!!!!"

And that's what often turns rational threads/discussions into little subthreads of STUPID.

Which no doubt is highly entertaining for any RWers lurking here with the purpose of proving to themselves that DUers are a bunch of assclowns.

[NCTraveler]

157. Fully agree with you on your points and even stated as much in another reply of mine.

While I don't think PC hurts discussion here to the point it is noticeable, it can be used as a very flawed counter-argument. I mentioned down-thread that I have seen some arguments made, in an attempt to discredit an argument, over a word or words that were used. This is very flawed when the topic being discussed has nothing to do with said word and the use of the word wasn't really pertinent to the argument in the first place.

All of that aside, the op still made a great argument against their own point. I can't help it, I find that to be funny. 0-7 to leave and they are yelling censorship from the rooftops. Your point is fair and correct. It is a very poor debate tactic by some.

[zeemike]

138. And sometimes I think it is deliberate to make us look silly

And that by the way is a common tactic of the right wing noise machine.

But the Jury system is a learning curve for most people and juries don't always get it right, but neither do moderators who have a more concentrated self bias.

I think the jury does work.even though I know it will always not turn out right...but in this case it did.

[leftynyc]

90. The post should never have been alerted

is the point. Something about Christie fucking with the wrong redhead (the nurse). But the larger point is true. PC nonsense.

[NCTraveler]

93. I agree that the post should have never been alerted.

But that thought is nothing more than an exercise of herding cats. This op goes so against the thought that this place is too PC that the alerted got absolutely no support and will face a punishment. That is how far against the ops premise their own argument is.

[gcomeau]

147. Not all silly over-sensitive alerts have that outcome. By a long ways. -eom

[Ykcutnek]

6. I hope that person wasn't serious.

If the list of words we can't say gets any longer, people will give up altogether.

[NCTraveler]

9. What words, necessary for you to make a point, are not allowed here? nt.

"If the list of words we can't say gets any longer, people will give up altogether."

[Ykcutnek]

17. I wasn't talking about here. I was talking about life in general. nt

[NCTraveler]

22. The question is still the same.

What words in society, necessary for you to make an intellectual point, are you not allowed to say.

It is a thought process I can't grasp. I have never been short for words when making an argument or having idle chit chat. Your belief that words are being taken away making it more difficult is something I don't understand. Was just hoping you would fill me in on the mindset of how your communication has been hampered.

[Ykcutnek]

31. I feel the same way about racial slurs.

I've never felt a need to use racial slurs and actually scold others for using them.

There are words, however, I feel are arbitrarily deemed offensive. I will only use those words around people who don't care.

[NCTraveler]

34. Again, full circle.

"If the list of words we can't say gets any longer, people will give up altogether."

Seems you agree that this is not the case in any way.

[Ykcutnek]

38. The only exception being racial slurs. nt

[NCTraveler]

42. You really don't want to anser this for some reason.

What words that you cannot use are limiting your ability to have a conversation? I thought it was a pretty straightforward question. Guess not.

[pipi_k]

156. Maybe the person you're asking

can't answer, but I can.

As I posted above, there are words that are just not OK to use because they're racially/sexually/culturally/etc. insensitive or offensive.

OK. Cool.

My problem is that often, people will have their own personal little lists of "not OK" words that they'll jump on others for using.

I know someone who doesn't like the word "bellybutton". Another one doesn't like the word "cup". Another who didn't like the word "piss". Don't say "yeah" to this one...always say "yes", or else you're a tramp, not a LADY. And so forth.

So if we don't want to unintentionally upset people with their own little lists of not-OK words, that means we have to remember who's offended by what.

WTF?

And yeah, I'm about ready to throw in the towel and give up communicating with people because it's a huge pain in the ass.

[NCTraveler]

158. Replied to you down-thread.

I just don't seem to have the same problem communicating with others. If they don't like the word "bellybutton" they can sit in their room with the lights out for the rest of their lives. Not sure what "bellybutton" has to do with anything. Who cares if they don't like the word.

[Ykcutnek]

161. Thank you.

Another example is getting scolded for using "the Lord's name in vain" in Bible belt states.

[L0oniX]

27. Is "blonde" ok yet?

[Ykcutnek]

35. I think blonde is OK, but blonde jokes are now off limits.

The poor, oppressed blonde-haired, blue-eyed people weren't getting a fair shake.

[whistler162]

96. Probably but only until blondes

figure out that the word is referring to them.

[mercuryblues]

135. yup

dumb blonde joking. Just because a woman is blonde, why she must be stoopid. The color of one's hair automatically makes them dumb, even if their IQ is in the 120+ range. Who knows maybe if they weren't blonde their IQ would be over 140.

[MineralMan]

7. That the post was left by a 7-0 vote seems a good indication

that juries are not taking such alerts seriously. I don't see the problem. Anyone can alert, but a jury has to decided. Usually, they decide properly. Occasionally, they do not. Nothing's perfect.

[lark]

115. I agree that there are too many alerts recently.

Seems like every other day I'm asked to be on a jury and only rarely do I agree that a post should be removed.

[Sheldon Cooper]

8. It would be helpful if you would publish the entire thing, and let us decide for ourselves.

[AndreaCG]

12. Christie fucked with the wrong redhead

That is the post in its entirety that was alerted.

[Sheldon Cooper]

13. What was the alert message?

[AndreaCG]

40. That the word redhead was a slur against redheads

As redhead is often used as a derogatory term.

[Sheldon Cooper]

49. Okay, who posted it?

I appreciate your responses, but honestly, it would be easier if you just posted the link to your jury results. Then we could read the entire thread in context.

[seabeyond]

59. i think it was an alert from proquarantine, pro christie, pissed cause christie is getting trashed.

seeing we are on a democratic board, i think we get away with saying christie is a piece of shit.

[AndreaCG]

61. I don't know how to quote a post to this thread from my iPhone

If I was on my computer I'd do it. Sorry it's cumbersome. I'll try to find the name of the person who alerted if I can

[Sheldon Cooper]

68. Thanks, someone else aleady posted the whole thing.

I can't get the hang of posting from my cellphone, either.

[Skinner]

88. That's not what the alert said. It did not claim that the term "redhead" was a slur.

You received a notification that includes the reason for the alert. Here is what it said:

What does the color of her hair have to do with it? Redhead's are regularly discriminated against, and stereotyped. This is offensive to fellow redheads and should be hidden.

To be clear, I think the alert was lame. But it is simply false to say that the alert claimed that the word "redhead" was a slur.

The post is here.

[AndreaCG]

98. Skinner, it says the use of the term redhead is offensive to redheads

That word offensive is equivalent to the word slur IMO. You're free to disagree.

[Skinner]

103. No, it doesn't.

It doesn't say that the use of the term "redhead" is offensive to redheads.

It says that making reference to the woman's hair color in this context is inappropriate. It is not a complaint about the use of the specific word "redhead."

[AndreaCG]

106. Please reread what you quoted

It says that explicitly in two sentences.

[Skinner]

112. No, it doesn't. The alerter uses the term "redhead" to refer to redheads.

Clearly the alerter does not have a problem with the word itself.

[AndreaCG]

119. Skinner, I'm not going to argue with you further

Because I respect your work as a moderator here. But I am going to ask if any other posters see the word offensive in what you quoted. If no one else does, then it means my eyesight is sorely lacking and I'll get glasses.

[tclambert]

141. Andrea, you're right. Skinner's wrong.

Case closed.

[Skinner]

144. Obviously the word "offensive" appears in the alert. (nt)

[tblue37]

155. I think Skinner point is that the alerter meant that referring to her hair color when it

was not relevant to the issue at hand was offensive because it called attention to her being a redhead, and since redheads are, the alerter claims, discriminated against, any unnecessary flagging of her hair color when it is not relevant is offensive, sort of the way we are offended when an article comments on a female politician's or CEO's clothes, since they don't make an issue of a male politician's or CEOs clothes.

Now, as a redhead myself, I don't find it offensive when someone refers to me as a redhead, even when my red hair has no bearing on whatever we are discussing at the moment. I assume, though, that the alerter is a redhead and is hypersensensitive because he/she has been teased about it on occasion--or maybe even quite a lot. If the alerter is British, he/she might have a point about discrimination against redheads (or "gingers" as they call them), but I think that in the US red hair is often favored, which is why so many women dye their hair red these days.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

89. 'Often'? I have never heard 'redhead' used as a slur.

I can't even imagine how you're supposed to consider it a slur.

[Skinner]

91. The alert didn't say that. (nt)

[DocMac]

109. You never heard "redheaded stepchild" before?

Man, he was treated like a redheaded stepchild.

I've heard this many times in my life.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

122. Yeah, but always with 'stepchild', ie the fact that 'redhead' was involved at all

was to imply that the hair colour (being unusual) was a constant reminder that the child wasn't born to the parent.

So it's not the fact that they're a rehead that gets them bad treatment, it's the fact that they're a stepchild, with the hair colour used merely to show that the parent was always aware of that difference in birth. (Obviously it wouldn't make sense if the parent had red hair too, but the percentage of redheads in the populace is low.)

So I never took that as a slur simply against redheads. Otherwise, you wouldn't bother with 'stepchild', you'd just say 'redhead'.

[DocMac]

134. I agree with that.

I just remember picking up sports teams as a kid, and the last person picked was often called a redheaded stepchild. I always thought it meant that the kid didn't fit in with the crowd. It was forgotten about as quickly as it was said, unless you were the last one picked, I suppose.

[merrily]

124. "Red-headed stephild."

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=red+headed+stepchild

"Fire crotch" is a more crude slur for a redhead.

But, the underlying issue may have been sexism. I cannot imagine anyone making blond jokes about Massachusetts gubernatorial candidate Charlie Baker, who seems to be a natural blond, but I can about Martha Coakley, who is also blond. The alert does advert to a woman's hair color not being relevant at all in the context.

[seabeyond]

126. i dont think it had anything to do with sexism, but dissing christie and someone didnt like that. nt

[merrily]

130. I will take your word for it. I didn't read the thread yet, only what Skinner posted on this thread.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

129. see my response just above.

As far as I can see, that phrase is not about the red hair as much as the 'stepchild'. Red-headed is merely used as a reminder of that stepchild status.

[merrily]

131. Maybe originally, but there is a connotation now. And "fire crotch" seems based solely on hair color

Our species seems to love slurs of all kinds, skin color, hair color, weight, IQ, etc.

[Bluenorthwest]

165. Just because I can...the Farkle Family

[merrily]

154. "Gingerism is no joke....."

http://www.canada.com/story.html?id=3cadcfce-be9a-4f10-90e2-0b1ca7b92061

And "don't call me ginger." http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/7/don-t-call-me-ginger.html

[MADem]

107. Really? I guess I need to get out more. REDHEAD is a derogatory term?

Can anyone show me it used derogatorily, anywhere?

If someone is going to insult using hair color, I've seen "dumb blonde" (though many blondes have taken that back and used it in an empowering way) but never 'redhead.' Redhead is sometimes associated with temper or a spirited attitude (fiery redhead) but that's used as a compliment, often as not.

Sounds like the jury made the right call.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

41. Yes, I would like to read the Alert Message.

I think the Alerter's name should be posted with the message.

[demmiblue]

47. Copied and pasted from the thread in question:

On Mon Oct 27, 2014, 03:28 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Christie fucked with the wrong redhead. nt
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5721685

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

What does the color of her hair have to do with it? Redhead's are regularly discriminated against, and stereotyped. This is offensive to fellow redheads and should be hidden.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Oct 27, 2014, 03:33 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation:
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Note to Alerter: Oh, please.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's stupid but that's not a reason to hide.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is one of the stupidest alerts I've ever seen. offensive? Really? Get a grip. Alerter needs a break -- badly.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Oh for goddess's sake! This is the most over sensitive reaction yet on this forum and I've seen some doozies recently. I'm beginning to think the RW might have a point about us being too PC, at least here.

[Sheldon Cooper]

57. Thanks, that completes the picture.

[NYC_SKP]

15. Kaci Hickox's boyfriend, Ted Wilbur, a nursing student in Fort Kent, Maine, said

Her boyfriend, Ted Wilbur, a nursing student in Fort Kent, Maine, said she had not planned on speaking to the news media but changed her mind after Mr. Christie said on Saturday that she was “obviously ill” when she knew she was not.

“Now he’s messed with the wrong redhead,” he said of her frame of mind.

The alerter probably didn't bother checking the source.

I would superglue their alert button for 30 days for that.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

19. What a dumbass alert! And it's a quote from Hickox's boyfriend! Jeez, some people...SMH! nt

[hootinholler]

79. Sounds like a Ginger Snap to me

[TexasProgresive]

100. That's good.

[lpbk2713]

10. Some will use any excuse to get a contradictory post hidden.

Their vanity simply won't allow anyone to disagree with them. Personally I see this as a cowardly way to win an argument and usually say so in my comment.

[seabeyond]

63. exactly. tried to find an offense, just to get a hide. nt

[snooper2]

14. redheads are hot, 7 things you didn't know about redheads

[ChisolmTrailDem]

23. ALERT! ALERT! You said "redhead"! How dare you! ALERT! nt

[MADem]

110. As long as no one says "soulless ginger" they are safe!

Kidding, kidding!!!!!!

[NaturalHigh]

26. "Redheads are hot"...

As the husband of a natural redhead, I couldn't agree more!

[hifiguy]

16. There are a number of serial alerters around DU

who comb through the site looking for something to be "upset" about. Word policing is their major stock in trade. People seem to be wising up to them however. About time.

[seabeyond]

65. or if proquarantine, pro christies and christies is getting his ass handed to him, it is used

to try to get a hide.

[AngryAmish]

18. alerted!

I kid,.

[L0oniX]

20. PC has been killing this site for a while. There's even been efforts to eliminate the word "fuck".

[NCTraveler]

25. What intellectual conversation has been stifled by PC here on DU? nt.

[L0oniX]

33. Some of us grew up with Don Rickles, Flip Wilson and George Carlin.

DU is not reserved for MENSA members only.

[NCTraveler]

39. Really has nothing to do with the point.

What words are limiting you from having an intellectual conversation here on du. Your answer addressed the point in no way. I have no clue what being a member of MENSA has to do with respecting your fellow person.

[leftynyc]

95. Well, it was just

implied (on a different thread) that I was a misogynist because I used the word hysteria for a woman and I never would have used it for a man - that accusation came from someone who doesn't know me very well because I use hysteria for everyone.

[NCTraveler]

105. If you are talking about general hysteria in the public it is all good.

You might want to think about not associating that word with women on this site. Really shouldn't hurt any argument or conversation you are having. I cannot imagine a situation where removing that word in reference to women would hurt you in anyway. At the same time, without reading it, I would never label you anything for using that term. Do I personally find it to be sexist? Sometimes. I mean it is clearly often used in a sexist manner often. That does not mean I think you did it in that manner and I would not attribute that to you.

1) It shouldn't hurt you in anyway to not reference a woman as being hysterical. With all of the words available in the language it should not be necessary.

2) Someone should not attempt to invalidate your point because the word was used. I have actually seen that happen here and with your brief description that seems to be the case. It can be a weak tactic used by some in debating, and if it is as you say, it shouldn't have been used in that manner.

Overall, PC hurts members here in no way. All but a handful are intelligent enough to argue without certain words or terms.

[TreasonousBastard]

73. I'm a MENSA member and I...

like all three of those.

MENSA, btw, is a silly organization, but it is great for women's equality-- if you're a member, you can be accused of being wrong but never of being stupid.

[L0oniX]

77. My point is that you incorporate things in your life and they become natural.

I by learned nature have joking, sarcastic, pessimistic personality traits. PC doesn't fit with my sense of humor.

[TreasonousBastard]

78. Yes, I realize that. Personally, I think I know the difference between

an insult and a gross joke. I think you do, too.

A lot people don't.

[L0oniX]

84. I've thought that only repukes didn't have a sense of humor.

[TreasonousBastard]

86. They do tend to laugh more at the insults..

and too often don't get the jokes.

But, they are not the only ones.

[sharp_stick]

71. I have to give you credit

you are seriously invested in this topic.

[seabeyond]

74. or a person starting an OP on pc, or members bemoaning pc on du, with a 7-0 verdict

kinda making the point they said no to an assumed pc infraction.

i think more likely a rw troll alerting cause he/she pissed christie is being raked over the coals.

[NCTraveler]

85. What does that have to do with the extremely flawed op?

Not sure what your post is for. Did you respond to others who have posted more in subthreads than I have or did you just reserve that for me? Thanks for the credit. Guess I will give you credit for a perfectly off topic reply.

[snooper2]

111. Go Cowboys!

[NCTraveler]

116. I will go off topic for your reply. It is worth it.

I am in my late thirties and use to be a huge sports fan. Growing up I loved MLB and collected cards. Spent a lot of time with the boys because it just isn't something that interested the girls. Then MLB went on strike and they never won me back. I don't hold grudges so I'm not sure why I never made it back. Then about four years ago I started to give up on the NFL. I haven't watched one game this year. In the past it was always a part of my weekends. I have no reason at all for not watching. Hockey lost me during their last strike. I do still go to a hockey game or two a year. It is just a fun event. Now, for the first year since I can remember, I haven't been watching college football. I love college football yet haven't watched a game all year.

So, what happened to me? Is there anyway I can blame it all on the Cowboys?

[snooper2]

120. You can blame it on Jerry Jones, the only problem is, he has a son

Who will probably take over-

But we can always dream!

[Nye Bevan]

28. Really?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002770770

[MADem]

113. If you go to the DU2 archives,

and do a search for the BEE word, you'd be shocked--shocked, I tell you--at the people who used that word with abandon. Some of 'em are the biggest finger waggers AGAINST the word here at DU3.

And what is odd is that when people were typing that BEE word on DU2, it was forbidden and bleeped on network TV. Now, you can hear the ladies of the VIEW and the TALK spitting it out on a regular basis. It's featured in network prime time shows and cartoons.

Only here it's forbidden and unforgiven!!!!! Talk about Bizarro World!!!

[arcane1]

21. 99% of the time I'm called for a jury, it's a stupid-ass alert. It's rather disappointing.

They are always alerts due to some manufactured or non-existent offense, or someone is losing an argument and therefore alerts on the poster they are arguing with, or someone just doesn't like another poster and spite-alerts on them.

[TreasonousBastard]

24. Heh. I had one hidden for saying something nice about someone, but...

someone apparently didn't like the way I said it.

The admins deny it, but a lot of us believe there's a fair amount of alert stalking going on. I remember a while back seeing alerts on "bad words" in small forums rarely read, leading me to think someone was actually doing a search for those words.

[L0oniX]

58. Careful ...criticizing an alerter can get you a hide too.

[TreasonousBastard]

66. Yaknow... I could live without DU and...

probably get a lot more done in the real world.

But if they got me kicked out for that kind of bullshit I'd be incredibly pissed that they were able to do that to anyone.

[Downwinder]

81. It is a self defeating process. A "hide" draws attention to the post.

[TreasonousBastard]

83. Yes, but it locks you out of the thread, and...

four more get you a timeout for a while.

[Downwinder]

94. The same should be true for the alerter if their alert is denied.

[TreasonousBastard]

97. That would be nice

[Sunlei]

29. limit alerts to two a day.

[fishwax]

30. seems to me that a vote of 7-0 in favor of keeping it indicates there is *not* PC overkill

[Skinner]

32. An alert getting shot down 0-7 is "PC overkill"?

Seems more like a unanimous repudiation of PC overkill.

[JHB]

36. It may not have been "PC" so much as alert-stalking, alerting to...

...rack up juries and possibly hides of a particular person, to force the, into a 90-day suspension.

Alerting over "redhead" seems ridiculouse, which would be a yellow flag to me that maybe something else is going on.

[Crunchy Frog]

37. There have always been frivolous alerts.

Just vote to leave alone, and add a snarky remark if you want.

I think you can also alert on an alert if it's bad enough.

[AndreaCG]

48. It just seems to me to be increasing rapidly

And also over sensitivity in objections to posts that aren't actually alerted. Like the poster who had been argued with time and time again about her insistence that the NJ nurse had Ebola when she has no symptoms as it yet, and said it was a mark of lack of civility when I asked what was wrong with her and called her Einstein sarcastically. I used no profanity in my post.

[BeyondGeography]

43. There's tender feewings here, but there are also teacher's pets

who can say whatever they want. It's inconsistent, like everything else that involves people. It's why I like trees and hills so much.

[3catwoman3]

44. Redhead? Really??

How absurd. I am an auburn, and wish I were redder. What could possibly be offensive about the word redhead?

[Nye Bevan]

45. I believe an alerter who is shot down 7-0 loses alerting privileges for some period of time. (nt)

[CJCRANE]

46. That's not indicative of anything.

You have no idea if the person who alerted is someone "on the left". That's just one anonymous poster out of thousands.

[AndreaCG]

51. I presume most of posting on Democratic Underground are on the left.

[CJCRANE]

64. It's an anonymous message board. There's no guarantee that a single poster is "on the left".

It might be a lurker that doesn't post but still has alerting rights. It might be a RW mole. One alert doesn't mean much.

And the fact that it was voted down 7-0 shows that the sentiment wasn't shared.

[seabeyond]

67. it could have been a rw troll, pissed christie was getting slammed. nt

[NCTraveler]

50. 0-7 vote to leave it has people crying censorship.

It is almost amusing if it weren't a true reflection of membership. How in the world to people pull off this kind of mental gymnastics.

[savalez]

117. I know, huh.

1 person alerted and 7 people disagreed. Yet "we" are now PC. Ooohh what will the RW neighbors think?!

[bettyellen]

52. they were probably trying to give "PC" a bad name, and screw with the poster. Both happen here,

frequently. Lots of Libertarians who want to keep "free speech" and let racist and sexist crap get posted here.
I have been on a lot of ridiculous juries where it appeared to be about grudges.

[tammywammy]

53. I'm a redhead and I read that post earlier.

Not offensive at all. I even joke with people "don't make me go redhead."

It's not really PC overkill when a jury repudiates an alert 7-0.

[WinkyDink]

54. WHAAAAT?! The word "redhead" is a perfectly fine and harmless word, like "brunette"! WTH?! Idiots!!

[SidDithers]

56. You're turn a frivolous alert by a single member into "PC overkill on this forum"...

and ignore the fact that 7 jurors - a far larger sampling of this forum - thought the alert was without merit.



Sid

[seabeyond]

69. exactly. nt

[AndreaCG]

70. The problem, Sid, is I've been serving on a lot of juries lately

And frequently for reasons like this, which are frivolous objections that seen overly sensitive and PC to me. And so I can only imagine how many alerts there are where I'm not on the jury.

[seabeyond]

75. and we have a crazy uncle site that states they leave du window open to alert and serve

on juries.

i too have noticed a rw tint to some of these alerts more than recently.

[merrily]

142. I serve on a lot of juries, too, and I think this is an extreme example.

Yes, I've seen a lot of posts that I thought should not have been alerted on, but deciding that is precisely what the jury is for.

If some alerts were not unwarranted, there would be no need for a jury.

[Jamastiene]

60. I despise the term, PC, but I don't see redhead as a slur of any kind.

Then again, I have a weakness for women with red hair. So, I may be too biased to make a decent judgement. Does anyone with red hair find it a slur for someone to say redhead? If so, it would be the first I have heard of it.

[AndreaCG]

80. The only one I can think of is red headed stepchild

Because many years ago if I am not mistaken red hair was seen as a sign of the devil or something evil, so redheads were treated badly. I don't think there is any such discrimination now, unlike the stereotype that blondes are dumb.

[merrily]

146. Now, "fire crotch."

[merrily]

152. "Gingerism is no joke...."

http://www.canada.com/story.html?id=3cadcfce-be9a-4f10-90e2-0b1ca7b92061

[demmiblue]

72. Personally, I think the clue is in this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025720883

Just a suspicion.

[seabeyond]

76. exactly. proquarantine. prochristie. pissed we are dissing christie. nt

[GusBob]

82. I served on a jury recently

the alerter's sole comment: "Please shut him up"

[leftynyc]

87. I served that jury also

Called the post stupid but not worthy of a hide. I completely agree with you. Seems everyone has their knickers in a knot about stupid bullshit these days.

[Cheap_Trick]

99. Well, everybody knows that gingers have no souls.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

101. Obviously the alerter was a redhead.

[valerief]

104. PCness IS right wing. It's a ploy used to divert discussion.

I hadn't realized the word redhead was now a bad word. I know people have been using ginger the past few years, but I didn't know that meant redhead was demonized. I can't even figure out how it's bad.

When I was a kid, certain dark-pigmented people were called colored. That was an okay term.
Then, we were told not to say colored but to say Negro. That was the okay term and colored was a bad word.
Then, we were told not to say Negro but to say black. Negro was a bad word.
Next, we were told to say Afro-American instead. Black was a bad word apparently.
After that, we were told to say African-American. Afro-American = bad word.
Then, we were steered into using People of Color. I don't know if African-American is a bad word yet.

So, in my lifetime, we could say colored but now we can't, yet it's okay to say people of color.

I know it's not the dark-pigmented people who are making these rules. It's the white GOP. If you talk about the "correct" term, you never have to talk about the systemic racism.

I can't wait until there are no white people or no black people and people are all tan. Won't happen in my lifetime, sadly.

[merrily]

114. Excellent points.

FWIW, I don't think African American is a bad term, but people of color includes more than African Americans. And, depending on context, can include more than only Americans of any hue.

[valerief]

118. But the terms are all so arbitrary. It's hard to keep up with the Okay-Not Okay status

of descriptors, which we need to use because of all our arbitrary political footballs of Hate. Of course, the only way to settle on certain terms is to get rid of those political footballs of Hate.

[merrily]

127. Yes, I did get that from your post and I agree. Wording is not the issue. Bigotry is.

At the same time, though, they can go hand in hand, as when "Boy" was used to summon gray-haired African American men--and to keep him "in his place." Nor do I think we should green light the N word for African Americans (or anyone) nor the C word for women (or anyone).

As usual, it's a balance.

[valerief]

133. I understood your response. I was just "extra" venting.

[merrily]

137. That's cool with me, valerief--and you are cool, too!

[merrily]

108. I hope all jurors bashed the alerter, since they could do so anonymously and without risking a reply

I don't alert much, but posts like this tempt me to alert more. Like when DUers scolded DU for curse words. Until then, my posts rarely contained curse words. But now, fuck it all, I make it a point to include one whenever I think of it.

[valerief]

125. Fuckin' A! nt

[heaven05]

121. I think a lot

of the petty alerters are RWers from Discussionist here to sow dissension and confusion. Can't prove it, ever, but just a feeling I have about the subtle shift to the right in a lot of so called progressive's response(s) on this board.

[Prophet 451]

123. I would suggest...

...that the fact the jury unanimously voted to leave it says there isn't pc overkill here. Someone got a bug up their butt over something innocuous, it happens.

[LittleBlue]

128. Nothing will happen unless the jury system is reformed

Frivolous alerters like that one should have their alert privileges revoked.

[tclambert]

148. Perhaps we should allow alerting on frivolous alerts.

Whenever I see "hidden by jury decision," it makes me extra curious to see what the offender posted. Oftentimes I am disappointed when it turns out to be a pointless personal attack, but sometimes it's a real laugher.

[PatrynXX]

132. it's that time of year

When I avoid the tv like the plague and youtube of late always interesting before Halloween. Some people are angry and in a panic. So the tensions are up. (btw PC means about as much to me as a CD does ) Personal Computer or a Compact Disk (and odds are I know the CD in banks on a guess more...)

[LawDeeDah]

136. That is very ridiculous.

I got a post hidden for bringing up Hillary's Bosnia sniper thing.

My post was called in as a 'RW talking point' - nevermind it's the damn truth and on video, to shut people up about Hillary now anything critical will be called a RW talking point. Utter bullshit.

Next 'dead broke' will be a RW talking point too.. what a farce.

[calimary]

139. Hah! I just had it happen to me! Served on a jury where I noted the "offending" post and my

first reaction was - "huh?" and "WTF?" The result was 7 - 0 to leave it. So I guess everybody else empaneled on this one felt more or less the same.

[beemer27]

145. Agree !!!

The last few times that I have been on a jury the alerted either had very thin skin or was just trying to stir up trouble over nothing. This is a discussion board, some posts will not agree with your viewpoint. Get over it and grow up. If we are all scared of being alerted on, there will be some pretty boring threads. Let everyone express themselves. You might learn something.

[vlyons]

151. I'm a red head, and proud of it!

Although it gets more and more "strawberry blond" as the gray invades it.

Red hair is a double recessive gene. You will never get rid of us!

[DeSwiss]

153. “But if thought corrupts language, language can also corrupt thought.” ~George Orwell, 1984

Like the man says, it gets worse with every generation. The more we soften reality, the less we're capable of seeing it clearly. We've learned to avoid the hard parts of life through our words. Or lack of them. By any other name, they're called lies. Living lies.

Explicit words -- words that don't hide anything from the hearer -- words, as plain as day -- is what we now require if we are to break this spiral of decent and take control of the momentum of our direction.

- Or, we can keep using JP Morgan's and Goldman Sach's half-assed broken-down tools to fix the planet. Because it's worked so well, right? I mean look where it's gotten so far.


“Until they become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious.” ~George Orwell, 1984

[merrily]

159. Exactly. It's the intention of the speaker and the context that makes words good or bad.

[The Green Manalishi]

160. Perhaps if one has too many alerts that are rejected by the jury they

could lose the privilege of alerting for a set period of time. there should also be some way to track if a person is alerting on one particular individual a lot, stalking should be stopped in it's tracks and the stalker punished. There are posters here I not only disagree with but find to be annoying to the point I suspect them of being a troll, but I'm not going to follow their posts and alert on every single thing, and anyone who does should be booted or at least suspended.

[SpankMe]

162. Rec +1. The OP is right.

Many on this board need thicker skin.

[Marr]

163. Was the person who said "redhead" a prolific poster?

I've noticed a lot of jury abuse, personally. People seem to alert not so much on posts as people, knowing the system is something of a crap shoot. It's a rare day that I'm not asked to serve on a jury for some completely nonexistent "offense", but when I look into the names, it's a predictable circle of people.

[LondonReign2]

164. I was also proud to be on that jury

Alerter thankfully got a time out

[uppityperson]

166. K&R for a needed discussion. The term "redhead" was used by her boyfriend, quoted in media

[bluesbassman]

167. Locking.

Host consensus is that this is disruptive Meta as it violates the "Threads complaining about Democratic Underground or its members; threads complaining about jury decisions," provision of the GD SOP.