100 catcalls in a day. Experience how much fun this is NOT.

[pnwmom]

And this often starts for girls as soon as they start to develop . . . like at the age of 11 or 12.

So guys, if you're ever tempted to "compliment" a strange woman/girl on the street, despite her lack of interest in you, please don't. And if you're not sure why this would make a woman uncomfortable, check out this video.

Look at the woman's face. Does she look approachable? No. Does she ever smile at the men she's passing? No. Does she make eye contact? No. Does she look the slightest bit interested? No.

Or does she look like she's wrapped up in her own thoughts and/or doing her best to ignore the men around her?

So why do 100 men -- or a man about every 6 minutes -- seem to feel compelled to break into her thoughts, despite being so obviously unwelcome?




VIDEO AT LINK.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/28/walking-in-nyc-as-a-woman_n_6063054.html

Rob Bliss of Rob Bliss Creative makes viral videos for a living and decided to use his craft to shine a light on street harassment, a pervasive issue affecting females around the world. Partnering with actress Shoshana B. Roberts and Hollaback, a nonprofit movement launched by activists to end street harassment, Bliss packaged his production as a PSA and offers viewers a different perspective on the problem.

"I felt like no one had ever really shown what it's like to experience street harassment, more or less," Bliss told The Huffington Post. "No one has -- from a third-party perspective, on the outside looking in -- been able to step back and look at it and watch it happen in front of them."

His intent, he said, was to offer an "unbiased" look at what many women experience on a daily basis. "No messaging. No judgement. Let people view it as it is and talk about," he added.

During filming, Bliss attached a GoPro camera to his back with a chest strap; he wore a yellow backpack, sunglasses and earbuds to look unassuming while walking five to 10 feet ahead of Roberts, who held two microphones in her hands. The actress wore simple clothes for the shoot: jeans and a black, crew-neck T-shirt.

SNIP

[Nye Bevan]

1. Here's the video. It's just horrible.

It really shows what it's like to be a woman in a place like NYC. These men are such utter creeps. Especially the one at the 1:00 mark who walked alongside her for a full 5 minutes.

[MerryBlooms]

2. The shitty comments at the end of the article remind me of the people who are always

screaming bloody fucking murder about the, "PC Police". Christ. These jerks are supposed to be allowed to harass/bully/call names, and we're supposed to not only like it, but want it. If we don't, we're called every demeaning name in the book... oh, and we're lesbians or frigid too.

[oldtime dfl_er]

3. Familiar

Pretty much all women can relate to this. It IS constant, it IS harrassment, and it IS universal. Makes me puke.

[JanMichael]

4. It is and they are pigs. I hate to say it but they are.

"I see a $1,000 walking by"...really? As a hooker you fat fuck?

When on the Lake Worth beach at cruise time (sunset in 1987) then sure, expect some call outs, but noon on a city street? It is pure trashy behavior.

This is sadly an example of what Marx called the Lumpen Proletariat.

[Happyhippychick]

5. Lived in NYC all my life. This was a daily experience for me.

I am numb to it. .

[JaneyVee]

6. As a NYC female resident I can attest to this...

It doesn't even matter if I'm wearing ear buds, and if you thank them it only exacerbates it. Most are harmless but some are seriously aggressive. Good vid and cause.

[topological]

8. That is saddening and unacceptable.

Some seemed to just say hello but you never know.

[Jenoch]

9. Just imagine how many catcalls she woukd get if she were a model.

I would be interested in seeing this type of video done in other U.S.

[geek tragedy]

10. Maybe you cool dudes should educate your fellow men and boys

on why they should not do this.

This behavior is learned, not genetic.

[seabeyond]

11. it is a way for men and even boys, to put us in our place. but, they want us to pretend it is a

compliment and take it good naturedly. all the while he knows, and we know, it is about putting us in our place.

[seabeyond]

13. we? you are here for three hours and already became a we? and let us know we are wasting our time,

women, discussing this issue?

[Logical]

14. Terrible, overall men are much worse than women. nt

[geek tragedy]

15. Are you arguing men are incapable of learning and

improving themselves?

[mopinko]

16. cant imagine it would be much different. and so many women are expected too LOOK

like models for low level jobs. how much fun it must be for them to walk to the bus.

and the clown who just follows her down the street for 5 minutes. what a creep.

[geek tragedy]

18. Not materially more. Maybe less.

It's a power play--show that woman her place etc.

[LWolf]

19. It's not just NY.

I've never been anywhere close to NY, but this is how I grew up on the left coast.

[seabeyond]

20. 10, 11 yr old niece in a modest two piece out in front yard playing in sprinklers.

started developing young, but what the hell, she still thought she was a kid. with my two boys 9 and 7.

i looked out the window and saw an old beat up truck slowing down, as it was coming up the street. so i watch. a couple 20' somethings hanging out the window watching niece. hey, she had boobs after all, right. i watch them pull into neighbors driveway, and turn around, coming back down the street.

i throw the door open and start heading down the stairs on my porch. they see me and take off....

ya. not just NYC

i can keep telling you stories both her and myself.

10, 11 yr old kid. the men start it young. they gotta. cause they are the least able to deal with it.

[Le Taz Hot]

21. ^This^

That is EXACTLY it.

[seabeyond]

22. but, we own these words, ya know. they are non gender, really. nt

[seabeyond]

23. it has nothing to do with attraction, just as rape is not about sex. it is control, dominance,

power over the woman. put her in her place. play the man card.

[seabeyond]

24. it has gotten worse. our boys are raised on porn and society, media uses women to entertain

our boys in degrading and humiliating manners. why would they see women/girls in any other way.

all of their culture presents our girls to men, for their use.

[pnwmom]

25. Welcome to DU, topological! n/t

[pnwmom]

26. Thanks for everyone who is getting it. It's not a compliment. Anything but.

And most women and girls understand this.

I can still remember how unnerving this was for me when I was a preteen, and it never really gets better -- and there are always times, when you are alone, where it can actually feel scary.

[chowder66]

27. It doesn't matter what you look like

Why do I know this? Because men are caught cat calling guys with long hair or a feminine physique and they cat call at the hint of female shape. I know because I used to wear an oversized army trench coat, sunglasses, put my hair up in a newsboy cap and wear a scarf up to my nose in the dead of winter when I lived in Kansas City, MO. Businessmen in suits would drive by the bus stop while I waited to go to a job or college classes and they would make blow job gestures as early as 7:00 am. I hardly think the tip of my nose (which would have been red from the cold) was that desirable but my guess is that I looked like a woman because everything hung off of me like a stick with a blanket thrown over it.

This is what I hear them saying > I "think" it's female... therefore it's mine to do with as I please...... and who gives a shit if she is married, gay, mentally ill, in love with someone, busy, dying, etc."

It's about them and their lust or whatever the hell that is, it's not about us as a person.

And this happens everywhere.


I love me some men... but I feel sickened by the types I describe above and cat calls are like warning flags to women, not compliments. One day maybe they will get this.

[liberalmuse]

28. I can't watch this...

but know how bad it likely is. When I was an office admin, I didn't have a car for a few weeks and walked to and from work. It was not pleasant. One day, while wearing what could only be described as a school marm skirt and blouse, a guy kept calling to me and asking how much I charged. He was serious. This was in a good neighborhood. I've been catcalled since I was 7 by adult men. Walking two blocks to the store as a teen was a humiliating thing, since guys would yell out their car windows. I've had my ass grabbed at school, the earliest being when I was 9, and I was so ashamed, even though it wasn't my fault. Parents need to do a better job in raising their sons. Women are human beings, not body parts put here to be ogled, whistled at or grabbed.

[DeSwiss]

29. So much stupidity in such a short walk.

[pnwmom]

30. I remember the sense of shame, too. We need to educate our daughters that it isn't their fault.

No one had ever warned me about it, and I think it would have helped.

[amandabeech]

31. I started getting it from my classmates in 6th grade.

One of them was an excellent artist and would constantly shove home-made pornography in my face. Thank god that ass-hole did some b&e's with his hood brother that summer and ended up in juvvie for two years. Then in 8th grade, I had one that whispered unbelievably bad stuff in my ear for an entire hour every day in English class. The teachers ignored everything.

By the time I was 14, I was harassed in the downtown area of my small town by guys in their '20s that I didn't know. There was a bar in the downtown and I suspect that they got liquid courage from that.

Finally when I was 16 I got a driver's license and could drive to other larger towns with shopping areas that discouraged that kind of behavior.

The thing is, I was never very attractive. It's just that I was female. Unless you've been harassed at such a young age, you just don't understand how awful and demeaning it can be. It's disgusting.

[pnwmom]

32. Yes! They have this sense that it is their right to judge. Even if they're not thinking

this consciously, it all comes from that sense of entitlement.

[amandabeech]

33. See my post above. Started in 6th grade. n/t

[armed_and_liberal]

34. "unbiased" look my ass

Nice job of choosing locations and editing. Edit out the 3 white guys and the racists will be splashing this all over the internet. I am disgusted by the harassment as much as anyone but I also have to wonder if perhaps there was another message that Mr Bliss was attempting to convey?

[RobertEarl]

35. Men, mostly, are pigs

Shameful, some of them are.

Ladies, I can only apologize to you for some of us.

And when I see a man acting that way make sure they know I do not condone the piggish activity. I've lost a few friends doing that.

[pnwmom]

36. I remember being very scared on the way to a babysitting job in my little town,

age 12 or 13, suddenly surrounded by a group of men from a construction site, who stayed around me, saying strange things to me as I hurried down the sidewalk, then laughing as I got away. How could they not know they were scaring me? Why would they -- a group of ordinary working guys-- want to scare a young girl? Would they want their sisters or daughters treated that way? What was in their minds?

[seabeyond]

37. would you like the women on this site to start telling you our stories? cause for a man

to dismiss so readily and with scorn is sounding like a whole lot of privilege going on.

[Logical]

38. Advertising does it so much also. nt

[seabeyond]

39. I've lost a few friends doing that.

i hope my boys have been raised in a manner that they are willing, to lose a few friends.

[pnwmom]

40. What are you talking about? There were plenty of men who are just as white as she is

doing the harassing. This is not about race, it's about gender.

In a typical urban setting, there will be a different racial mix than in a rural setting, but the behaviors are the same.

[Iris]

41. There was a count the end. 100 incidents in 10 hours.

That's 10 an hour, so, yes, there was editing.

[Sheldon Cooper]

42. And just what exactly do you think that message is?

Please. Don't sugar coat it.

[handmade34]

43. message?

I don't have to read the article or watch the video... I have daughters and I know what they go through... rural, city, black, white... it doesn't matter... my daughters are runners and they are disgusted by the catcalls by boys and men wherever they go

[Le Taz Hot]

44. It's evident that you are not female.

I would guess that EVERY WOMAN ON THIS BOARD as well as every woman you've ever been in contact with will attest to the same treatment by complete strangers. Edit my ass. When you're young this happens every fucking day of your life. Harassment comes from all colors and all economic backgrounds. One of the lovely benefits of getting older and therefore invisible is I don't have to put up with that shit any longer. You need to ask the women in your life about this since you seem to be clueless of the realities that face women every day.

[chervilant]

45. Durn...

Why so defensive? Also, it doesn't sound as though you are as "disgusted by the harassment as much as anyone." You might want to view the video again, and understand that we women almost universally experience this type of harassment, and worse, every single day. Maybe you could reserve your disgust for the men who think this type of behavior is their privilege...

[armed_and_liberal]

46. We can start with my mother's story

She drove a taxi for 30 years, she suffered every harassment imaginable and was raped.

I wasn't dismissing the harassment nor was my scorn directed toward the woman.

[seabeyond]

47. my son is a runner also. he gets the inevitable fat middle age man calling him

homophobic slurs and threaten to kick his ass.

he has all kinds of ways he addresses it, but ya. gets old. he ran in oregon when we visited the area. totally thrilled and wanted to move there. lots other running, dressed as he was and not a single bit of harassment.

that being said. above i stated to a poster i hoped i raised my boys in a manner that they too would be willing to lose a few friends speaking up. sons personal experience alone was a good teaching moment for him.

[armed_and_liberal]

48. Nice dodge folks

Attack me for what I didn't say, while you ignore the blantant racism of this video

[amandabeech]

49. It's beyond me to understand.

What happened to you is just horrible, and I'm really sorry.

I wonder if those guys harass the sisters and daughters of their buddies? It wouldn't surprise me if they did.

[seabeyond]

50. ok. and it sure sounded like it, per all the responses you got. i will take you at

your story.

then again, i read your last post and how you so readily dismissed the women that responded to you, to derail and very real issue women have.

[Jamaal510]

51. Man they're bold on the East Coast, aren't they?

Joking aside, it's one thing to say "hi" and maybe give a small compliment to a random passerby, but it's another to call them "sexy" and comment on their hips/ass/etc. Some of the comments they made to her is the type of talk you're supposed to save for the bedroom with a woman you know well.

[niyad]

52. k and r

[Chico Man]

53. Not all catcalls

Some seem like homeless or just looking for attention, will comment on anyone walking by, especially if they are different / stand out for any reason. That's what they do - hang out on the sidewalk and act like jerks to people - men and women

[BlueJazz]

54. I've never done that kind of crap. Didn't see any point to it. My Australian mother...

...would have verbally kicked my ass !

"Son... civilized gentlemen don't act like trash"
"Being yourself will bring the best to you"

Damn, I miss her. (Airplane crash)

[Le Taz Hot]

55. Nice dodge, aal,

Several women have tried to tell you that they've been harassed by men of all ages, all colors and all socio-economic backgrounds. You made a stupid accusation, women tried to point you in the right direction and now you want to double down? Sometimes it's just smart to pull back, regroup and admit when you've made a bad call.

[Le Taz Hot]

56. Uh, actually, no, it is not OK

for complete strangers to "give a small compliment." It's inappropriate and in most cases, completely unwelcome. "Hi" while passing by is acceptable, much beyond that to a complete stranger is not acceptable.

[chervilant]

57. Need a little cheese to go with that

whine? All kidding aside:

I think I am not alone in my perception of this video--I don't see the "racism" you suggest is blatant. I didn't view the comments, but perhaps you saw a number of comments that suggested others see "blatant racism"?

I don't know, aal...sounds like you have a personal issue with this video.

[seabeyond]

58. smile taz, you are so much prettier.

your existence in her to brighten up the mens day, ya know.

[Le Taz Hot]

59. I think it's trying to portray

what a woman goes through by just walking down the street. It doesn't matter WHO is doing the harassing, it's the fact that she gets harassed from so many different MEN by doing nothing more than just walking down the street minding her own business. I think that was the point.

[sheshe2]

60. That was ugly

and no, it sure is not a compliment it was an assault. How she too that for 10 hours I will never know, I'll bet she went home and took a long hot shower to wash away the filth.

Thanks for posting the video, pnwmom. It needs to be seen.

[zappaman]

61. Your profile says you like to "check out chicks"

I wonder what the ladies would think of that...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=279013

[Brickbat]

62. IME, it doesn't matter how she looks.

[zappaman]

63. I think it's a great idea, but does anyone know

How this group intends to stop or decrease this behavior?

[Le Taz Hot]

64. Goddess, I used to hate that!

Just another benefit of growing older, there's so much that you no longer have to put up with from men. Somebody try that now, they'd get "the look," just one more thing I've acquired with age.

[Nye Bevan]

65. You've got it all wrong.

He works on the reception desk of a hotel for baby hens. So every day there are chicks to check out.

[progressoid]

66. Ugh.

They shouldn't have blurred out their faces. Let everyone see the vermin.

edit. Yeah, I know privacy issues and all but still.

[Nye Bevan]

67. Yeah, I wondered why they did that.

That is required by the privacy laws in some countries, but not the US.

[Brickbat]

68. They can't.

Men have to.

[KingCharlemagne]

69. I might have acted that way when I was 14-15. Maybe, although I can't remember now. But

then I grew the fuck up.

[cwydro]

70. I posted this on facebook.

I hope everyone does.

This is disturbing to me, though not news.

Thank you for posting it.

[Brickbat]

71. The actress received rape threats because of this work.

http://www.amny.com/news/shoshana-b-roberts-threatened-after-catcall-video-1.9555978

A New York actress who volunteered to appear in a public service announcement depicting street harassment was threatened online soon after the clip debuted Tuesday, according to Hollaback, the organization which commissioned the troubling film clip.

"The subject of our PSA is starting to get rape threats on the comments. Can you help by reporting them?" @iHollaback tweeted Tuesday.

The plea worked, said Hollaback deputy director Debjani Roy: "Our community is reporting the threats on YouTube and they're being deleted."

[morningfog]

72. That is really eye-opening. Gets the point across.

[freeplessinseattle]

73. Yep, always feels like some (not so subtle) form of agression and domination to me

I just wish I had some clever comebacks that would just confuse and silence them for a moment while I strode ahead. Any ideas?

[glowing]

74. That's probably the worst! Cat calls or honking when running.

It's distracting and rather unnerving.

[pnwmom]

75. There are plenty of men in that video who are just as white as she is.

So I have no idea why you're saying the video is racist. This is NYC. I think it represents a typical cross-section of NYC men, racially speaking. Do you think NYC looks like Sweden?

[KingCharlemagne]

76. It's weird. I had many brilliant professors but the most brilliant of all of them was a woman. I've

had a lot of shitty bosses but the only really excellent one was a gay man (who never once said or did anything at all inappropriate with or to me). When I taught English Lit and Composition, my best student writers and thinkers almost always were women.

I suppose if one lives a life of the mind -- as I have done to varying degrees throughout life -- one sees and appreciates people for . . . their minds as much as anything. I'm a hetero male and I really feel like I'm just not tuned in on the right frequency to notice the utter shit you and others are describing. That's what it is: total and utter shit.

[pnwmom]

77. Your mother taught you well. I'm sorry you lost her! n/t

[pnwmom]

78. You're welcome, sheshe2. I'm glad they made it, though it brought back a lot of unwelcome memories.

[pnwmom]

79. Which proves the point, doesn't it? This is all about aggression. n/t

[seabeyond]

80. and you are probably one i would chat up at the grocery store.

i am forever talking to strangers out and about. my family is amazed, in just a few minutes i will have a person life story.

but, there is a difference between being in the mind, as you state and experiencing someone, a stranger, and what women experience. we all know it, when we see it.

i like you post. thank you.

[pnwmom]

81. Thank you, amandabeech. And I'm sorry you went through what you did.

I had some similar experiences, and a similar sense of shame. And you and I were the ones NOT at fault!

[cwydro]

82. K and R. nt

[Puzzledtraveller]

83. get over yourself.

[Brickbat]

84. When will guys believe it?

Even on this thread, people saying it's because she's gorgeous, it's because it's New York, it's because there are crazy people on the street. What does it take to get people to believe women?

[BlueJazz]

85. Thank you pnwmom. I appreciate your kind words.

[Demit]

87. No, I don't think you are disgusted by the harassment as much as anyone else.

Or you wouldn't be trying to change the subject.

[pnwmom]

88. Are you a woman? I doubt that you know them as well as you think you do.

The opinions in this thread are like those of ALL the women I know.

[Demit]

89. We're trying to deal with obnoxious assholes right here.

By telling you that women don't like being accosted on the street by strangers.

[pnwmom]

90. What are you objecting to? nt

[pnwmom]

91. I agree. Maybe they were afraid someone would sue them if they didn't. nt

[Kali]

92. oops

[amandabeech]

93. Thank you!!!

Yes, we were not at fault!

[seabeyond]

94. +1. point. nt

[Brickbat]

95. Well, there's "talking" and then there's "talking."

I'm betting most women you know would probably be pleased if street harassment stopped.

How should this woman have dealt with the first obnoxious asshole who bugged her? The second? The guy who was just walking down the street with her?

[KentuckyWoman]

96. +1

[LTR]

98. Accosted? By what - talking?

I work in sales. I've dealt with my fair share of assholes - including people attacking me on a personal level for no reason whatsoever.

Guess what? In society, we deal with assholes. That's a known fact. If you're too thin-skinned, don't blame society. Blame yourself for being too much of a coward to deal with reality.

[Kali]

99. both of them?

how...interesting

[LTR]

100. Eek! Some idiot with bad social skills talked to me!

The horror!

[Kali]

101. at the least it is fucking tiresome

at times it can be frightening

[jalan48]

102. Family

How would a man feel if this was his daughter or sister? Somehow we are able to get outside our sense of family respect and objectify others who aren't in our family. Perhaps these men don't respect themselves deep down and transfer it to women.

[shaayecanaan]

103. from their website

Question: I heard something about your position on antiracism. What’s that about, and what does it have to do with street harassment?

Answer: Replacing sexism with racism is not a proper hollaback. Due in part to prevalent stereotypes of men of color as sexual predators or predisposed to violence, Hollaback! asks that contributors do not discuss the race of harassers or include other racialized commentary. If you feel that race is important to your story, please make sure its relevance is explained clearly and constructively in your post. Initiatives combating various forms of sexual harassment and assault have continually struggled against the perpetuation of racist stereotypes, and in particular, the construction of men of color as sexual predators. There exist widespread fictions regarding who perpetrators are: the myth of racial minorities, particularly latino and black men, as prototypical rapists and as being more prone to violence is quite common. This stems in part from a tragic and violent history in which black men in the U.S. were commonly and unjustly accused of assaulting white women, and as such were lynched by mobs and “tried” in biased courts. Because of the complexity of institutional and socially ingrained prejudices, Hollaback! prioritizes resisting both direct as well as unconscious and unintentional reinforcement of social hierarchies. Simultaneously, Hollaback! aims to highlight the interrelations between sexism, racism, and other forms of bias and violence. - See more at: http://www.ihollaback.org/about/faqs/#sthash.GL0iErFy.dpuf

[KentuckyWoman]

105. I totally disagree with you.

Some are sure. In THIS country there are enough decent men around that we keep a little bit of a leash on the jackasses. Some things will not be tolerated. Other places there are too few men willing to stand up for the safety of women they've resorted to burkas and twisted up laws putting all of the burden on the women.

You don't see catcalls on the street in small town eastern Kentucky. I fear raccoons out walking alone after dark more than men. NYC would be another story.

[Demit]

106. Calling out to women on the street whom you don't know is not "talking."

It is harassment.

[pnwmom]

107. Can you not figure out why no girl or woman wants to deal with 10 obnoxious assholes PER HOUR???

Do you have so little empathy that you would call these women "thin skinned"?

I think what happened to this woman is very typical. I lived in a small town and when I walked into town, which took about 10 or 15 minutes, I would always get someone honking or yelling at least 4 times each direction -- from the time I was 12. The first time or two I turned, thinking it was someone I knew -- and there was some creepy old guy hanging out of his truck and leering at me. So I learned never to look when someone honked. And it never stopped, as long as I walked on that street.

It even happened when I walked down that street as a 20 year old with a boyfriend. At about the 5th or 6th trucker honking, he got so upset he threw something at the truck. He could understand how I felt.

I hope this video has opened the eyes of at least some men. They need to teach their sons.

[Kali]

108. so-called harassment?

so now not only are women thin skinned and unable to deal with assholes, the harassment from those assholes isn't even real?

[pnwmom]

109. Welcome to DU, jalan48!

[VScott]

110. Seems like most of the abusers were black.

At least the more aggressive/creepier ones were.

Is that an ingrained cultural thing, or just selected editing?

[pnwmom]

111. You don't think what this woman went through was harassment? You don't think she felt harassed

or that the men were entitled to treat her this way no matter how she felt?

[pnwmom]

112. Didn't seem that way to me, and I watched it again from the beginning.

It looked like a normal cross section of NYC guys of every color. This wasn't filmed in Sweden.

[Luminous Animal]

113. No.It is not okay to say hi and give a small compliment. Not unless you've made eye contact and

that hi is mutual. Because interrupting someone's thoughts is interrupting a song they may be working on... a difficult conversation that they are working through their heads, a significant point of a paper that they are close to hitting on a solution.

You've no right to distract me from my introspection, from my creative thoughts unless I've invited you to do so with direct eye contact. No right at all.

[Number23]

114. !!

[LTR]

116. News flash: She's an actress

If you're in the entertainment industry and afraid of attention or people saying crude things about you, then you are definitely in the wrong business.

[Kali]

117. you used the term

didn't you mean it?

[Iwillnevergiveup]

118. Ahhh yes, reminded of the old axiom

If it feels uncomfortable, it's not right.

[pnwmom]

119. Flash: she's a woman. Listen to the women responding here. We've all been through it,

and it's an uncomfortable experience.

And as she is an actress, I'm sure she was in more control of her face than many women would be. She didn't give a hint of interest to any of those men -- in fact she looked uncomfortable or distant the whole time -- and yet did that stop any of them? Why didn't it? Why could 100 men not leave her alone?

[zappaman]

120. Right, but

How to accomplish that?

[LTR]

121. Yes, I said "so-called harassment"

But I didn't say it was fake. What about the guys who just smile and say "hello?" Do you seriously consider that to be harassment?

In a nutshell, every single person on this ball of dirt we call earth deals with a high level of bullshit from other people. Throughout history, many have been persecuted for very little reason. So seriously, is it really a cataclysmic event when someone moron on the street says "hey baby"? If so, you truly need to stop being so conceited and garner a bit of perspective.

[Jamaal510]

122. So

it's inappropriate and unwelcome to just say something like "I like your shirt" or "I like your hair"?

[Kali]

123. so-called implies not real

fake

you have made your position clear, don't worry.

[VScott]

124. Yes, a normal cross section of NYC guys of every color

But, even in a culturally diverse city like NYC, the ratio of black cat callers
compared too other ethnicities is either by chance, upbringing, or editing.

[zappaman]

125. Crystal. N/t

[geek tragedy]

126. your rancid, ugly victim-baming is duly noted.

Have any more nonsense to add?

[RobertEarl]

127. I check them out

I do not assault them or do anything to make them uncomfortable.

So sue me for liking women and their beauty. Their feminine ways and they way they carry themselves is one of nature's greatest gifts to behold.

[seabeyond]

128. You get ltd, all the way thru your sub thread you adamantly stand with and defend bullies.

That is what you are doing. Your language is bullying demanding women silently take it. you defend these bullies, and they are no more than piss ant bullies, by telling women to take it and not be bothered.

Who is the person who stands with and validates bullies?

[Jenoch]

129. Wow.

I'm a red-blooded American male and have seen attractive women in public many times. It never would have occurred
to me to make a comment out loud.

Sure, when I was a teenager and a college student there was some flirting that may have been suggestive, but the girls seemed to have been more graphic than the guys, I think that's called teasing.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have not witnessed these catcalls in Minnesota. Of course I have not spent much time in either downtown in the last ten years.

[pnwmom]

130. Less than 45% of the population of NYC is white.

I don't think it's as easy to define races by looking at people as you do, but the cat callers appeared to me to include men of all colors, in a similar proportion to their numbers in the population.

[pnwmom]

131. Yes. Think about it. This woman was being talked to about every six minutes by strange men.

Ten times an hour!

So all the men who think they are the exception, that she would be glad to hear their comments, are wrong.

At the very least, it's just tiresome to not be able to walk down the street without being interrupted every few minutes by some man trying to get your attention -- no matter what he's saying.

Don't you ever think about things while you're on a walk? Plan your schedule? Think about important things at home or work? Would you appreciate being interrupted every few minutes by some stranger who is saying, in effect: "LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME!" Because that's what's going on.

[pnwmom]

132. It's possible that there's less of it in Minnesota. I noticed there was less of it in Seattle

when we moved here, and Seattle and Minnesota share some cultural characteristics.

[Luminous Animal]

133. We just don't want our space taken up by obnoxious assholes.

We want the freedom to not being interrupted with our intellectual pursuits... to have a continuity of thought... we do not have to have our privacy invaded multiple times a day.

[laundry_queen]

134. + a million. nt

[Jenoch]

135. I renember several years ago

there was talk of passing an anti-ogling law in Minneapolis. I do not know how it could have been enforced. I did learn, through a construction worker cousin, that when a nice looking woman was spotted near their construction site, the first guy to notice her would loudly call out 'Herman'! I wonder if that is the Minnesota Nice way of ogling attractive women?

[laundry_queen]

136. It's a larger part of our culture

Women are invalidated constantly. Our feelings are because we are crazy or hysterical or hormonal. Therefore, if she's not happy for being catcalled, it must be because something is wrong with her, not everyone else. You see it all over this thread. Excuses, invalidations, deflections, shaming.

This is why it's so difficult to get men to believe that these things actually happen. They also grow up in a culture that is dismissive of women's experiences. There are tons and tons of sociological studies that show women aren't taken seriously for anything when compared with men, and are only taken seriously if a man believes the woman and advocates for her. Studies in the workplace show women are talked over, interrupted, and ignored many orders of magnitude more than men. So until guys believe it, guys won't believe it.

[pnwmom]

137. Well, if I heard a man call out Herman, I would have figured he was talking to some guy named Herman

so that's not a terrible way to do it, I guess.



And I agree, I don't see how they could outlaw ogling. But I appreciate them thinking about it!

[chrisa]

138. The comments section is a nuclear cesspool.

Humanity is doomed.

[chrisa]

139. The difference - this is not "talking" - this is harassment.

These guys do this to be assholes, or they think it's normal.

[pnwmom]

140. I'm proud of DU, though. The vast majority get it. n/t

[pnwmom]

141. Don't you ever take walks where you are occupied with your thoughts?

Going over things in your mind, planning things? Planning a sale with your next customer, for example? Mentally rehearsing how that scenario might go?

Would you really appreciate being interrupted from your thoughts every few minutes by some stranger trying to get your attention?

[pnwmom]

142. Do you really appreciate constant interruptions when you're trying to think?

Why do you think women would want that?

[betsuni]

143. Sidewalks are not singles bars during happy hour.

Pedestrians do not want judges holding up numbers and commenting as they pass by. Those guys in the video must get a little power-buzz tingle every time they invade someone's privacy.

[MrScorpio]

144. By the time I saw this on Tumblr it was already posted here

I'm glad that this is getting the exposure that it is. And still, it's not enough. It needs to be expanded to both a wider audience and taught to boys at an earlier age about how inappropriate catcalling is.

This is why we all need feminism.

[pnwmom]

145. Thanks, MrScorpio. The reactions here tell me we're making progress

though the comments section on the video shows how far we have to go.

[MerryBlooms]

146. Misandry!!

[Le Taz Hot]

147. To a stranger just passing you on the street?

Yes.

[IronLionZion]

148. This is probably not the site for that

just sayin. There are politically themed liberal dating sites out there.

[boston bean]

149. Nature has given you a great gift to behold.

Just think about your thinking there.

You are entitled to check them out because it was a gift nature gave to you to behold.

FTR women know when they are "being checked out" whether you think they do or not, and many times, it is an uncomfortable situation for women.

[Brickbat]

150. Is that what you get out of women's comments here?

"Eek" and "the horror"? I'm wondering why you're so invested in diminishing the reactions of women here.

[davidn3600]

151. So women don't check out guys?

You do understand that men and women are physically attracted to each other, right? I guess when I see girls checking out a guy's butt or chest or crotch...it's just my perverted imagination, right? I've seen it...many times.

I seriously doubt a few decades of feminism is going to change millions of years of evolution. We are attracted to each other. We like to have sex. All nature cares about is survival and reproduction. That's not going to change. These are subconscious motivational drives.

What exactly do you want? A society where people walk down the street like zombies who don't talk to each other, don't look at each other, and don't care about each other all because a woman might interpret a "Good morning..." as a catcall and feel uncomfortable?

[Brickbat]

152. I live in Minnesota, and I get them here.

Men often don't witness these catcalls, for many reasons. If they're with the woman walking, the woman won't get catcalled, because she's with another man, and off limits. If a man is by himself, walking downtown or on the street, he's likely in his own thoughts, and it's unlikely he'll be walking with another woman long enough to see it happening. Also, as you can see from the video, these aren't "calls." They're murmurs, seemingly reasonable sentences ("so you won't talk to me?&quot , muttered phrases that are easily deniable.

[raccoon]

153. Are you a troll or so obtuse you don't even understand what street harassment is? nt

[boston bean]

154. Yeah, I understand the men and women are attracted to eachother, why would you doubt that?

I would like men to stop ogling women and thinking that nature has given them the right to behold hot looking chicks.

There are ways to introduce yourself to someone, staring at them thinking how much you would like to have them in bed, and this happening to women over and over and over again, becomes uncomfortable.

If you don't get it, you don't get it. I accept you don't, so you can just accept we don't agree.

I have no gumption to argue this point any further with someone who starts out with such ridiculous questions.

[WinkyDink]

155. Harassed when young; treated as nothings when old. By men who think they're all that but are zeroes.

[WinkyDink]

156. This is ON THE STREET, with fugly-arse dirtbags. You must know some desperate women.

[Brickbat]

157. Stop saying things with "comma but" in them, read up, and exercise the power you have.

http://www.stopstreetharassment.org/resources/male-allies/

[WinkyDink]

158. Good demonstration.

[geek tragedy]

159. what is the factiual source for your claim that the video was produced in such a way

to demonize men of color?

[RedCappedBandit]

160. I shared this on my wall

Some of my male friends agreed with me that this behavior is absolutely repulsive.

Others didn't get it and said stupid shit like "So saying good morning to a woman is wrong?"

I honestly can not understand the way these guys are acting. You're not "being nice" by intruding on someone's privacy in this manner. You wouldn't be "nice" to guys passing by, so obviously there's an ulterior motive at play.

[pnwmom]

161. Exactly. If you wouldn't compliment or say hi to a guy in the same way,

then there's another motive at play.

[alarimer]

162. I'm kind of glad I'm old.

Well, old enough this doesn't really happen to me anymore. I can't recall that it ever did, much.

But I did get flashed by some guy sitting in his car when I was about 11. Horrifying.

Mostly what I got was "Smile!" because apparently I have always had "resting b*** face."

[Brickbat]

163. Do you usually say that to men on the street?

[pnwmom]

164. Well, if strangers were demanding that you smile on command,

that's a common form of street harassment. So yes, it happened to you, too.

Sorry about what happened to you as a child! It certainly would have been horrifying.

[Mr Dixon]

165. WOW

Saw this last-nite that one guy walking next to her for like 6 minutes needs his ass kicked fucking creep. The rest of them were pretty common IMO, if men say hello I'm not seeing how that is offensive the cat calls are over the top.

[ReverendDeuce]

166. Girl should grow up! Cat calls are as American as apple pie!

Psych!

[pnwmom]

167. What if you were walking down the street, thinking something over,

or planning your day, not showing any interest in the people around you? Would you really want to be interrupted by strangers every few minutes, trying to get your attention?

What is offensive is that the men feel compelled to get her attention, even though she is so clearly not interested.

If you wouldn't say hello to a man under the same circumstance, then don't say it to a woman.

[betsuni]

168. Exactly. Why not say that to men if a guy is just being friendly?

[Brickbat]

169. Do you usually say hello to men on the street?

[OnlinePoker]

170. She wasn't wearing a sign saying she was an actress

This was an experiment to see what a woman walking on the streets of New York has to go through.

[OnlinePoker]

171. Actually, I say hello and good morning to most men and women I meet as I walk.

I think I got it from my mom since she seemed to know everyone in the small city I grew up in. We could never walk down a block without her saying hello to someone.

[MineralMan]

172. You make them uncomfortable by "checking them out."

What are you "checking them out" for? Suitability for your tastes? Don't look now, but people can tell when you're "checking them out." They don't like it, either.

[The2ndWheel]

173. Men that ogle women are probably just out of other options

Or they're just jerks. Or awkward. Or some combination of something.

Men have to draw attention to themselves in some fashion, otherwise men would be ignored. It may be different for women, but that's why men and women are different. If a man isn't attractive, he has to be confident. If he's not confident, he has to have money. If he doesn't have money, he has to be funny. If he's not funny, he has to have a common interest. If he doesn't have that, etc, etc. Guys that try to hit on random women on the street are just out of any other option besides, "hey, look at me, I exist", and they still have a thought that it might work. Or, again, they're just jerks.

Obviously women and men can fall anywhere on that sort of spectrum, but in general women may tend to get more unwanted attention, whereas men, I would think, tend to get more unwanted non-attention. Which is why you tend to see more desperate men, sometimes in the form of trying to talk to random women walking down the street. Just the balance of life. It sucks for everyone involved. I doubt the men like being like that. It's most likely not working for them, which just means they fail time after time. Again, unless they're just jerks.

[GummyBearz]

174. My ex went to NYC for a week

Back here in LA, we would go out to bars quite a bit. When she was away from me in a bar (ie. going to the ladies room, ordering, etc) she would get an occasional comment from a guy.

When she went to NYC she said the guys were way more pushy with their advances in settings that weren't even like a bar. Even guys that were friends of the girl she was visiting there. She would tell them she was in a relationship, they keep at it. She would have her friend tell them to back off, they would keep at it... saying stuff like "he doesn't need to find out".

From that little story it sounds like the problem is more with NYC men instead of men in general. Also, her friend that she was visiting had a long term boyfriend, and short term boyfriend, and was on the look out for one night boyfriends... so women there don't seem to be saints either.

Hope that last line doesn't get me crucified.

[snooper2]

175. Have you checked out radiation lady lately?

British woman trying to save Japan's nuclear power industry says: 'Radiation is scary'
Lady Barbara Judge, the British expert hired to help Japan's Tepco rebuild its reputation after the Fukushima disaster, has admitted that most people are worried by nuclear power.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/10163087/British-woman-trying-to-save-Japans-nuclear-power-industry-says-Radiation-is-scary.html



"We all grew up with the Simpsons, a cartoon that said for 20 years that the owner of the power plant was the evil person," she said. "It's in our psyche to be worried about nuclear.
"Nuclear sells news, it's an emotional issue. And radiation is scary. It's like magic - it's mystical, invisible. You can't see it. You don't know how to hide from it.

[MineralMan]

176. Yes, it's inappropriate. Think about it.

As far as I'm concerned, there's no reason to interrupt anyone on the street. I might smile at someone if he or she smiled at me, but that's it. Any comment about appearance is rude and intrusive.

[geek tragedy]

177. if it's the hello they would give other men, then it's harmless

if it's the hello they reserve only for women, on vanishingly thin ice at best

[Mr Dixon]

178. ??????

From what I saw most of the men said hello and kept it moving, a few said more but soon got the point and also moved on. The construction site was like a gantlet nobody should have to endure that. From my understanding if a man or a woman is interested in another person they are inclined to speak to ascertain if there is a mutual interest correct? Harassment is different than just saying hello assuming I’m off-base please explain the proper interaction.

[NewJeffCT]

179. There was a similar video posted a few months back

from a woman that went through similar treatment - in Minnesota. Now, it wasn't 10 people per hour done over 10 hours, but it was several men while she was either on her way into the office in the morning or out on her lunch break.

So, it's certainly not exclusive to NYC.

[RedCappedBandit]

180. I'm in NYC, where the video is filmed.

I think the geographical context is important to keep in mind.

That's polite in some areas. That is not the culture in NYC. If a guy came at me to say hello I'd be alarmed and on the defensive.

There's also a huge difference between a sincere good morning and sleazy thinly veiled attempts to hit on people.

[JTFrog]

181. "Women could probably be trained quite easily to see men first as sexual things...

“Women could probably be trained quite easily to see men first as sexual things. If girls never experienced sexual violence; if a girl's only window on male sexuality were a stream of easily available, well-lit, cheap images of boys slightly older than herself, in their late teens, smiling encouragingly and revealing cuddly erect penises the color of roses or mocha, she might well look at, masturbate to, and, as an adult, "need" beauty pornography based on the bodies of men. And if those initiating penises were represented to the girl as pneumatically erectible, swerving neither left nor right, tasting of cinnamon or forest berries, innocent of random hairs, and ever ready; if they were presented alongside their measurements, length, and circumference to the quarter inch; if they seemed to be available to her with no troublesome personality attached; if her sweet pleasure seemed to be the only reason for them to exist--then a real young man would probably approach the young woman's bed with, to say the least, a failing heart.”
― Naomi Wolf, The Beauty Myth

[LanternWaste]

182. One means, by advertising the behavior for what it is...

One means, by advertising the behavior for what it is... much as was done in the OP.

[seabeyond]

183. this is excellent. needs to be OP. instead we are told a lifetime, mans body is not attractive, no

only the womans body is attractive and that is why we put nude pictures of women up all the time. that is art.

i was very young when i challenged this. personally, a perfectly toned, male body is the cats meow to me. the womans body, meh. but.... an outstanding mans body? a true work of art.

so i started challenging the many people all over that used that stupid ass comment, mens body not attractive, that is pure bullshit. but, why do we present it in this manner? just another way to make women a thing and available and not do the same with men.

[LanternWaste]

184. Have posters become so thick-skulled they we can no longer understand...

"has society really become so thin-skinned that we can no longer figure out how to deal with obnoxious assholes..."

Have posters become so thick-skulled they we can no longer understand when someone is obviously attempting to deal with obnoxious assholes, e.g., the OP itself?

[Arugula Latte]

185. I'll bet most DU women have untold stories not just of verbal harassment, but of groping & grabbing

as well. I know I do. It started when I was 12. It can be downright terrifying.

[seabeyond]

186. lol. got an eye roll from me. sigh... nt

[dilby]

187. I have never seen anything like that before here in Portland.

Granted there are probably a few neighborhoods here where you would see stuff like that but I have yet to see anything like that just walking the streets of downtown. New York looks like it's a real shit hole.

[UglyGreed]

188. I would not

like it if that happened to my daughter or my wife. Stay classy NYC.

[seabeyond]

189. i talk to people out and about ALL the time. and we know the difference. we all do. this is not a

tough one.

[seabeyond]

190. and again, we all know the difference. my eyes, when i was young out and about. some middle aged

man with a ring on his finger, on his way to work picking me out to say hello, or chat up.

fick that shit.

and why wouldnt i say that? fuck that shit. some man a decade and more older. married. out of the house, from family, fuckin chattin' me up.

fuck that shit

these men just walking by saying hi. on the way to work.

out of the house, time to play.

it did not impress me even a little. further. i did not think much of them, as people.

[seabeyond]

191. as do i. and started about 12. or 12 when i was old enough to recognize it. being a fuckin kid

and all.

[seabeyond]

192. but, you do think it cool to say a hi and compliment. wasnt that you?

i was surprised when i read it, but not gonna go back to check on it. just like not a big enough deal for me to comment. just curious.

[Arugula Latte]

193. Yep.

I got groped in a concert crowd when I was 12.

[seabeyond]

194. and mine was a hand between my leg, from behind, pushing up my vagina. line of school cafeteria.

but what the hell, right?

it is a fuckin compliment or it never happens. or.....

what can we do? shut up. dont wanna hear it.

[dilby]

195. No, I see no reason to talk to some random stranger on the street ever.

I have a pet peeve for people who interrupt my day with stupid comments like nice shirt, nice shoes or the ultimate reaching down to pet my dog without asking.

[seabeyond]

196. hm. that sounds more consistent with you. i am glad i asked. ?'s are good.

and thank you for answering without snit. lol. that is cool too. thanks. good to know. cause i am think about my young, just now. and remembering in my 20's and in the work force, dealing with married men, when i saw the wives at christmas parties. and heard the stories of exciting family time and kids, from these men. and listened to professions of love and respect, for their wives, from these men. then chat me up.

and i would say.... you

are one of those.

[JTFrog]

197. I think she summed it up pretty well there.

But there seems to be no end to the denials that this culture exists.

[dilby]

198. I am not superficial so I place very little value on physical appearance.

And what I find attractive most men do not, but at the end of the day I prefer a woman who is intelligent and this is not something you can determine by someone walking down the street. If I look back on the last week with random conversations I have had with strangers that I initiated one was with a woman about her bike as we were waiting at a stop light, I liked her fenders and was asking about them. Another was with a man at the coffee shop as we waited for our coffee, he had some really nice American Traditional tattoos that were very well done so I was asking about who did them. Another was a lady at the library, we were looking at books from the same Author and I asked if she had read any of his work, which she had and told me the book I was holding was really good and to give it a shot.

As far as women at my work, I talk to them all the time but I think it's very unprofessional to go into subject matters that could be misunderstood so I try to stay away from conversations about physical appearance and dating lives, this holds true when talking to male coworkers as well, I hate it when a male coworker makes a comment about a woman at our work, I find it very unprofessional and make it known I am not comfortable with where the conversation is going.

[seabeyond]

199. you are my people. i hope we end up sittin on a bench in a fun place, and can chat about....

you do du? i do du, too!

cool and nifty.

i hear ya. and this is what i do thru out my day. sincere and respectful. and THAT is a true joy. for me.

[dilby]

200. Well if you are ever in Portland you can hit me up.

[PasadenaTrudy]

201. I don't even want to watch..

since I've already lived it

[PasadenaTrudy]

202. Portland is much more civilized..

than most medium to large size cities. Love it there!

[Brickbat]

203. Are you male or female?

[RobertEarl]

204. You are correct

It isn't anything special that sets me apart. Hardly a man alive who doesn't. Even if one is blind. Remember the movie "Scent of a woman"?

[treestar]

205. Or even if you smile at someone

can't that just be friendly - why would it have to mean you were open to anything?

Though a lot of the guys in that video didn't bother me - only the ones who kept it up and the one about the 1K.

[treestar]

206. I noticed that

Disproportionate number of AA men - are they really more likely to catcall?

[dilby]

207. Male.

But I would assume I would still see this happening downtown Portland if it was as prevalent as it obviously is in New York.

There was a story about this in our local media about this and you can read some of the comments.

http://www.oregonlive.com/living/index.ssf/2014/10/endless_catcalls_follow_woman.html

[seabeyond]

208. become more overtly sexualized with the rise of cable TV and the Internet.

continuous assess to pornifying our girls and women, and we are stupefied when it bleeds into real life.

thanks for the article.

[hifiguy]

209. Ugh. Disgusting.

The only guy who wasn't seriously creepy was the first one who said "have a nice evening" and just kept on walking. The megacreep who said he "saw a thousand dollars walking by" deserves a foot so far up his ass he will be tasting shoe leather for six months. Ditto for the "five minutes" troll.

Wow. Very enlightening. There is no excuse on earth for behavior like this.

[pnwmom]

210. Look at her face! She didn't show the slightest bit of interest in having any contact

from any of the men who approached or said things to her.

And she was being approached, on the average, every 6 minutes. Think about how annoying it would be if you were just walking along, absorbed in your own thoughts, and every few minutes some stranger was trying to get you to notice him.

So, if you want to ascertain possible interest, then glance at the woman's face. If she looks as uninterested as this woman, doesn't crack a smile or meet your eyes, then don't bother speaking. She's already telling you everything you need to know.

[valerief]

211. Some of the comments at the link are disgusting.

I remember when I was younger having to go through this. It was creepy, even a hello was creepy. Now that I'm old, I only have to worry about getting mugged.

[7962]

212. Oh, NO, they'd beat the hell out of anyone doing it to THEIR sister!!

But to them, thats DIFFERENT.

[Orrex]

213. A starfish melts every time you "check out a chick"

[mercuryblues]

214. I have

lived in 4different states and vacationed in many more. it is everywhere. This is not unique to NYC.

[RobertEarl]

215. I want to apologize

My presence here has attracted some members of my 'fan' club who have now gone off topic and talking about me instead of this important subject. I wished there were something I could do about them, but none of my alerts seem to work.

I am sorry, Ladies.

[dilby]

216. I love it here as well.

I came from AZ about 15 years ago and there was definitely a culture shock with moving here but now I am pretty integrated into the culture.

[Orrex]

217. We are taking issue with your stated hobby

And we are poking fun at your stated (and conspicuously retrograde) hobby by snarkily referring to your other hobby.

[alp227]

218. "men and women are physically attracted to each other"? So?

Does that make staring at strangers morally correct? Does that make catcalls right? does it? Huh? HUH? HUH? HUH?

There's never debate, nuance, or gray area with sexual harrassment. Zero. There's never gray area or compromise between respect and disrespect of others.

Also, look up the naturalistic fallacy.

[RobertEarl]

219. Talking about me

Is your hobby. I wished you'd stop. And get a life doing something that has a bit of meaning. I guess, tho, that it keeps others from being bullied, so there is one silver lining to your following me around and talking about me.

[Orrex]

220. Not really.

Aside from the threads in which you pop up with your zany proclamations, you don't exist to me.

And calling you out for those zany proclamations is hardly bullying.

[alp227]

221. IOW, #NotAllMen nt

[PasadenaTrudy]

222. I was just there last month...

stayed in Sellwood. It's on my list of places I'd like to move to someday. SoCal is too hot and crowded. I love cool weather and rain, forests and rivers....*sigh*

[Arugula Latte]

223. Jesus.

That is awful.

I told my daughter that if anything like that ever happens to her she is to raise holy hell then and there.

[dilby]

224. Sellwood is a great neighborhood and lots of stuff to do there.

I just moved a couple months ago up to the Mississippi area and I am really happy with the move, I lived out in the burbs of Portland for most of my life here and coming into the city has been great.

[seabeyond]

225. i did. went to mad. then, i was embarrassed. and shamed, that i reacted so angrily.

it did not take long for me to put that in its proper place.

i am glad i reacted as i did, naturally, and so young. it served me well over the years and still, today.

that was middle school, 7th grade. i knew the kid, and was surprised. he slunk around for a couple three yrs. my sophmore yr, he sat behind me in a class. apologized. we had always gotten along. and i had always liked him.

was probably a great lesson for him

[treestar]

226. no one said it was a cataclysmic event

but an overall part of a society where women are put in their place. It's a legitimate source of discussion. You're saying suck it up because it is not so bad. Mostly, women do. This is a little fighting back on that.

[Orrex]

227. Could've sworn you typed "continuous asses."

Which, I suppose, would also have been accurate.

[seabeyond]

228. fun fun.

i am listening to you all. i was out there two summers ago. we are looking at moving in june. i have these places for the different states. good and bad, in all of them, but weighing which would suit us best.

colorado springs. not to go too far from family. and though conservative, a hell of a lot more liberal than where i am now. would be the first step getting out of the state. so would work well. i can afford the housing.

spokane, wa. would get me way up north, where i really want ot be. i have an uncle, so contacts. affordable housing. and the area is a lot like the climate (repug/lib) as colorado springs.

olympia. would put me on the ocean'ish. water. water water water .... water. and cool.

or eugene or. that is the fav for all of us.

washington state and colorado have better laws and i think will have the better economy. lower property tax.

[seabeyond]

229. lmfao. ya. that would work too. lol. cute. nt

[dilby]

230. I like Eugene but the job market is lacking since it's a college town.

And Oregon soon may have similar laws to Washington and Colorado, will have to see how things go.

[NCTraveler]

231. I see the conversation that has ensued after this post.

I just want to say thank you for this post and your efforts. It makes a difference. It truly does.

[bettyellen]

232. Ewwww, you went straight for the "conceited" gambit- which shows your resentment of women who are

just not interested in being harassed. Nice way to reveal how you really feel about women.

[NCTraveler]

233. Short and to the point. nt.

[MineralMan]

234. Good job in removing your "check out chicks" line in your DU profile.

I'm glad to see that you listened to people here and recognized that it was inappropriate.

Now that you know, I'm sure your opinion of the topic of this thread has changed accordingly.

[Moonwalk]

235. I wish on you ten such idiots, for every hour you walk the streets, every day....

...for the next five years of your life. As it's no "horror" to you, I'm sure you'll be fine with this.

[GummyBearz]

236. As I mentioned

She would get occasional comments in bars in LA. But in her words, walking around in NYC was magnitudes of order worse.

[cherokeeprogressive]

237. So I should never initiate a conversation. Ever.

Because what if that direct eye contact is purely coincidental and the other person is actually looking right through me while picturing the next Mona Lisa in their mind...?

If the person at the cash register never looks me in the eye I should keep my mouth shut? What if I have a question and in their head they're composing the next ageless hit song?

[Orrex]

238. Careful--he might send you a nutty PM to tell you how important he is. (nt)

[zappaman]

239. You get nutty PM's too?

[AgingAmerican]

240. As if that is abnormal...

nt

[hifiguy]

241. When I was growing up that was called basic manners.

Which are clearly on a dramatic decline.

[stage left]

242. yes.

Absolutely. Completely and totally unwelcome and inappropriate. Like other women on this board I am glad to be old and no longer subject to having strangers yell out what they think about my looks or my choice of dress on the street. Men who catcall and make comments to women they don't know are creepy. Period. Such behavior is creepy and can be extremely scary to a young girl just into adolescence as it was to me in my youth.

[zappaman]

243. Abbie?

[edhopper]

244. Jury results

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Racist accusations against black people even with the "editing" remark. Replace "cat callers" with "gang members"...imagine how bigoted this sounds?

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Oct 29, 2014, 12:58 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Post said "chance" as well as "editing". The "upbringing" remark is certainly debatable, but not inherently racist.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: VScott is saying there is a disproportionate amount of black catcallers in the video and even allows that selective editing could be the reason. What's the problem here? Observations are verboten now, even those that give the benefit of the doubt?
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Making an observation of the video, not saying it is true of black men.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the

[thesquanderer]

245. re: "There's never debate, nuance, or gray area with sexual harrassment. Zero."

I think you over-state your case there.

Right in this thread, you can find people clearly on the "this is entirely unacceptable" side of the discussion who are, themselves, still uncertain over whether simply saying "Hi" when you pass someone on the street is sexual harassment.

In most cases, sure, it's clear. But life is full of gray areas, and there are some here, too.

[MineralMan]

246. Since I receive very, very few DU Mails, I'd

welcome one, for sure. I'll give it my full attention for the time it warrants, too.

[Dollface]

247. From Miss Manners to those who think a woman is rude to not respond to lewd strangers

DEAR MISS MANNERS: I was taken aback by my elders' reactions to an anecdote about an encounter with a strange man who accosted me in a public place.

I have been approached by strangers with increasing frequency in the past few years, and as I am usually by myself and on foot. I have made it my policy that a brief exchange of polite conversation is acceptable, but as soon as a stranger calls me beautiful or makes a similar remark about my biology, the talk is over, and I quickly continue my prior business.

This was the end of my story that I related to my parents and my grandmother. My father was approving that I do not tolerate strange men. My mother suggested that I behave more like my sister, who, armed with a quick tongue and rapier wit, frequently enjoys making sport of her admirers.

My grandmother further shocked me when she said that I was behaving poorly and missing some wonderful opportunities to make friends and connections in the world.

Miss Manners, I am loath to make contact with lewd young men. If approached as a lady with, perhaps, a comment on our environment, a compliment on an unusual possession or a question for directions, I may be inclined to continue with polite conversation. If a young man cannot think to talk about anything but my physiology, he must have mistaken me for a different kind of woman, and not a young lady who strives to remain respectable.

Were you to inform me that my ways are unduly harsh, I should endeavor to bear such attentions, although I had to this point believed that my behavior would be sanctioned by polite company.

GENTLE READER: Really? Your mother wants you to engage in banter with lewd strangers, and your grandmother believes that encouraging them would enrich your social life?

So much for the wisdom of your elders. When you were little, did they advise you to be friendly to strangers who offered you candy or rides in their cars?

Do they imagine that the remarks you describe are made by gentlemen who hope that they will lead to the discovery that you share an interest in history or art or gardening, and that a friendship or romance might then develop?

Miss Manners can only hope that your mother and grandmother speak from naivete, and be grateful that you have the good sense not to listen.

[NewJeffCT]

248. with the guy that was there for 5+ minutes

next to her, I kept expecting her to finally break character & give the guy an elbow, a knee to the groin or at least call him out.

[pnwmom]

249. LOL. Well said, Miss Manners, and the young lady. n/t

[pnwmom]

250. I think it was more powerful that she didn't. We all got to see how long he persisted,

and everyone who watched felt like giving him an elbow or a knee to the groin.

[NewJeffCT]

251. yes, that did make it more powerful

and, pretty creepy of the guy to just keep walking and walking next to her.

[CrispyQ]

252. Clueless.

It's not about evolution, it's about what we define as acceptable public behavior.

I guess when I see girls checking out a guy's butt or chest or crotch...it's just my perverted imagination, right?

Yeah, like the streets are full of women calling out "Hey baby!" & "I want some of that" to attractive men. I can't believe you're even trying to equate it.

because a woman might interpret a "Good morning..." as a catcall and feel uncomfortable?

Yeah, cuz so many of the men in the video said "Good morning." Did you even watch it? Did you see the creeper who followed her for five minutes? Yeah, I see women doing this kind of shit all the time, NOT.

[stage left]

253. K&R nt

[stage left]

254. Who stands with and validates Bullies?

A person who is himself a bully. My guess is LTR is guilty of the very behavior he so adamantly defends.

[seabeyond]

255. wink... just sayin'. nt

[Luminous Animal]

256. No you should not initiate conversations.

Let's take your scenarios.

#1 would be a genuine mistake on your part. If her eyes dart away, she's not interested in pleasantries. If they don't and you smile but she does not smile back she is not interested in pleasantries.

#2 it is her job to interact with customers.

[jakeXT]

257. In this small experiment Mexico City & San Francisco were the leaders

Based on the individual experiences of these 10 women, Mexico City was the worst of the group—with 29 catcalls in a single week. San Francisco and Nairobi were basically tied for second, with 17 and 16 respectively. Tel Aviv and Occidental College in L.A. had the least, with only two. (For our college correspondent, both of those happened off campus, so you could count Occidental as zero.)

Italy wins for Most True To Its Cultural Stereotype. Short of screaming out, “Mama mia, when the moon hits your eye I’m a pepperoni pizza,” the men of Rome, Sicily, and Le Cinque Terre couldn’t have been more on the nose if they tried. A sample from our Italy correspondent:
https://medium.com/matter/its-impossible-to-prevent-someone-from-eyefucking-you-a1cd688392b2

[arikara]

258. That was the best benefit of getting older

On the day I realized that I was now anonymous and that men weren't ogling anymore. No more telling me to... arrggg... "smile"... or making ugly comments like "nice ass". When I realized it stopped I celebrated inside, it is by far the greatest benefit of middle age.

I developed "the look" early on and its sometimes a good defense but women shouldn't ever need it. I have nothing against saying "hi" to people I don't know, I've lived in friendly communities. But leering and ogling, strangers making intrusive "compliments", and rude comments are never appropriate, and never welcome.

[uppityperson]

259. Not any more.

Did it say more or just that? I am glad he removed it and sad he felt it was ok to put it there in the first place.

[tinrobot]

260. And what about all the men in the video who didn't cat call?

The text says there was one cat call every six minutes. The city is very crowded. That means for every man who was a jerk, there were dozens or hundreds of polite guys who passed by and just went about their business.

But I guess the vast majority of good guys don't count because it is much better to let a few jerks define the standard of what "men" represent.

[uppityperson]

261. Very much so. It is nice to not have to hear that crap. Yeah, I am...old! If only I'd lose 20 years

and X#s you'd like me again. So sad, tiny tear.

I do not mind a hi or a hello, but "hellllllloooo" is different, intrusive and unwelcome.

[uppityperson]

262. It can be, and it can be like that "I say potato, you say potato" thing. Hello vs Heellllooooo

There is "hey, I lke your hair" and "heyyyy, I like your hair". It depends on how it is done and for what reason. Intent matters and unfortunately for too many, the intent is inappropriate.

[uppityperson]

263. Yes, that is what we are all saying. Never talk to someone whose job it to talk with you.

[seabeyond]

264. Is this a NOT ALL men, post? Ya. We ALL know it is not all men. We have brothers, husbands,

Sons, fathers and friends. Relax, we clearly know it is not all men

Feel better?

Now can we discuss sex harassment since we clearly say the obvious. That it is not all men!

[zappaman]

265. He changed it.

About time...

[arikara]

266. "hellllllloooo"

either got ignored or the "look" if it was unavoidable.

How I hated that shit.

[zappaman]

267. Just because the majority don't engage in this behavior in this video

does not mean it isn't a problem.

[uppityperson]

268. 3 hides on this thread, flagged for review.

[Brickbat]

269. .

[pnwmom]

270. Are they supposed to get an award? Do women get awards for just doing

what they're supposed to do? Not that I've noticed.

[Skittles]

271. I've lived it but I talk back

f*** off is standard for anyone requesting me to smile

[Skittles]

272. the only time men really get it is when they have daughters

and then they act like they own them

[PasadenaTrudy]

273. I don't get it anymore

now that I'm 50 with greying hair. Thank goddess....

[Skittles]

274. aw I do

57 and still get honked at walking to the store

[davidn3600]

275. Men are expected in our society to be confident, make the first move, and go get the girl you want

Men are told since very young that women expect men to make the first move. We are told that women value confidence and a go-getter attitude. Men will dare each other to go ask a girl out.

And some guys do tend to cross the line and take it too far. Some get creepy with it. No question. Some guys have terrible "game." Some guys are perverts. But this is where in our culture it stems from. It is the man's job to go up to a woman and initiate conversation.

Men don't know what women want. We can't read your minds and understand what kind of guys you are interested in or what kind of guys you are trying to attract, or if you are trying to attract anyone at all. Most men realize that women very rarely make the first move (it isn't considered "romantic" for some reason). So we figure we have to do it and then properly gauge the interest.

[F4lconF16]

276. "was probably a great lesson for him"

I agree, but I'm sorry it had to come at your expense

These lessons need to be taught to boys from when they are young. This can't be something you "learn" later in life--we need men to know and understand what respect for women is before they harass someone, before someone else like you has to experience that harassment.

I also think we need to make it very clear to young girls that this behavior is completely wrong and totally unnaceptable. Though clearly the onus is on men to fix this problem, until that happens, we need to provide girls with the tools to "defend" themselves (not the right phrasing, but I'm exhausted today so not going to worry about it). You're lucky that at that age you reacted angrily, that you fought it. Many don't, and being harassed and beaten down by men only reinforces the idea that it's their fault, that the men have a right to do that.

I had a friend call me two nights ago in tears because a guy was being an asshole to her. She felt so strongly that he was entitled to her company that she avoided going to urgent care because she didn't want to be late meeting up with him. It took me over 20 minutes to reassure her that she wasn't doing anything wrong by ignoring him and going to the doctor. She isn't the only friend who's had similar things happen, though. Girls need to know it's okay to have the confidence to tell a man to fuck off. They need to know just as much as men do that no one is entitled to her, ever.

[One_Life_To_Give]

277. when they experience it with their own eye's & ears

I think for most guys it is a matter of our personal experience not revealing the frequency of the harassment. The average guy who doesn't perpetrate such behavior would observe only a fraction of the harassment. What is once every 6 minutes for a woman might be only once a day or less for a man to observe.

Interestingly men also view this as a situation where women hold the power. While the woman is fearful herself, guys mistake the situation for their groveling for the attention of some powerful woman. Those feeling so a probably not doing the harassing anyway. But likely to see the harasser as someone who is more of a ladies man than they themselves are. Which makes them wish to be more like the harasser. Except they don't realize it is harassment.

[pnwmom]

278. Very few women want or expect strange men to approach them on the street.

How can you tell? By looking at their FACES. This woman's face said very clearly that she didn't want strangers to approach her. She wasn't smiling. She wasn't winking. She wasn't making any eye contact. Her face said: keep your distance.

It didn't take an emotional genius or a mind-reader to know that an approach would be unwelcome. Yet 100 men in 10 hours just couldn't seem to stop themselves.

So if you're trying to figure out whether you should approach a woman -- glance at her FACE. That's all you need to do. If she doesn't smile or even meet your eyes, then move on.

[seabeyond]

282. So, ignoring or a face clearly letting you know she hates this shit and you

Hate this shit because she won't accommodate you

[arikara]

284. Something is really wonky with this thread

My response was to somebody else entirely and what I was talking about is obviously not what you are thinking. Some kind of glitch happened here. I noticed something weird earlier today on a different thread.

[hifiguy]

281. Any of which would have been richly deserved by that creep.

[thesquanderer]

287. re: "There's never debate, nuance, or gray area with sexual harrassment. Zero."

I think you over-state your case there.

Right in this thread, you can find people clearly on the "this is entirely unacceptable" side of the discussion who are, themselves, still uncertain over whether simply saying "Hi" when you pass someone on the street is sexual harassment.

In most cases, sure, it's clear. But life is full of gray areas, and there are some here, too.

(the original post of this message ended up mis-located when the forum hiccupped.)

[hifiguy]

280. I know.

I'm Asperger's and not always the quickest to pick up on or recognize nonverbal signals but that was stunningly obvious even to me. Mind your own damn business - it's what I do and what I expect unless I make it otherwise. We used to call it common courtesy and respect for others and their space.

[marym625]

288. Great call!

I thought they must have stayed in neighborhoods that were predominantly poc.

I wish I had verbalized that since it was selective editing. Cheapens the entire message. Shame on him

[Separation]

283. .

How should this woman have dealt with the first obnoxious asshole who bugged her? The second? The guy who was just walking down the street with her?

Therein lies the problem, women should not have to deal with this at all. I know you weren't, but when I hear that it almost reminds me of slut shaming in a way.

[pnwmom]

290. So? That does't mean there was deceptive editing. n/t

[formernaderite]

289. its about social economic class...

cultural upbringing and gender related to that class. Although, my son took his teen sons to NYC and the two boys had pretty gross comments made to them by teen girls in Times Square. Again... they were what we would probably call lower class girls.
Look, I live in asemi- rural working class area... and yet I managed to teach my kids and grand-kids how to be polite. It's probably my age, but I don't abide rude behavior... but I've witnessed younger kids coming up enthralled with what I'd label "thug culture" behaving disrespectfully. And yes, I will tell them to knock it off.

[markpkessinger]

279. Blaming it on porn is, I think, simplistic . . .

. . . I am a gay man, and I can assure you gay boys consume gay porn as avidly as straight boys consume straight porn. Yet we don't catcall each other on the street like this. If anything, if we are harassed on the street (not with catcalls, but with epithets), it is likely to be by the same jerks who catcall women.

[freshwest]

285. Kicking to see if this works, all the replies and recs are gone.

[betsuni]

286. Time to watch "Oppressed Majority" again.

Unfortunately with battling subtitles: