General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI'm not going to feel sorry for Wisconsin anymore.. (or Ohio, Michigan, and Florida)
Consider it tough love, but someone either on the state level, or national level didn't do their job, and these tyrants got re-elected Governor! So the next time I turn on Big Eddie on MSNBC, and he's ranting about how Walker is further dismantling unions, I'm gonna say too bad! You had TWO, count them, TWO chances to get rid of that mutha, and you didn't! Shame on you Wisconsin! I'm proud to be a Minnesotan!
msongs
(67,405 posts)Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)Kansas is going to like Greece now.
I have no sympathy.
RKP5637
(67,108 posts)dusty, deserted, lawless territory that people might fly over as a curiosity.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)At least now that he is unemployed he will have time to renew his drivers liscense.
liberalhistorian
(20,818 posts)from Fitzgerald's area, in fact, and most of my close family is still there, and I completely, utterly agree. I was truly disgusted not just at the state party's ridiculous and weak choice, but at it's equally inept and incompetent campaign all the way down the line. It's as if they NEVER learn, the state party has been that way for a long time. They think that if an incumbent is bad or corrupt, which KaSICK is in every sense of the word, that that's enough, they don't have to have a great opposing candidate or run a good campaign, that people will just naturally see it. Well, no, they won't. You have to give people a reason to vote FOR you, not just against your opponent and the state party, and you can't just naturally trust the voters, like too many Dems and state Dem parties (including the idiots in my own state's party, in South Dakota-don't even get me started on how they won't pull their heads out of their asses and it's cost us every office we had these past four years).
There are a lot of state Dem parties that need a real shakeup and wakeup. And touche on the driver's license comment. My mom, who's there in Cleveland, said that the moment she heard about that she knew that whatever small chance he had was understandably gone. What a fucking idiot.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)because the few fuckups that run the state democratic party HAVEN'T GOT A SINGLE CLUE about how to cultivate participation by a person with a winning credential.
liberalhistorian
(20,818 posts)Who can raise their voices and do something about it? That's right, the base. But too much of the base would rather pout and stay out of the voting booth, thinking somehow that they're "acting on principle and teaching a lesson", when they're doing no such fucking thing. And I include my own state's inept party leadership and base in that, including myself, as, while I worked and voted, I still think there was more I could have done, especially to wake state party up.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)they really haven't proven to be any better at making decisions reflective of the base than the names that they enable to show up on the ballots.
onecaliberal
(32,858 posts)If folks cannot be bothered to get off the sofa and vote, then by proxy they are voting for whatever they get. I'm done. I live in California and although my county is red, my state is blue and we half way try to help people here.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)You wouldn't blame people for not going to a restaurant or not buying tickets pre-season if the food was awful and you didn't care about the sport.
Blaming the voters privileges the 'democratic leaders' as being correct and not contributing to the disaster.
I don't accept that. Not even 10%.
Greybnk48
(10,168 posts)People like my daughter's friend who was on board for the (liberal) social referendums like minimum wage increases and getting rid of Citizens United, but voted for Walker because her family has always been Republican and Walker promised he would respect a woman's right to choose. WTF!
My daughter said had she argued with her about it or tried to show her she was mistaken, it would have seriously compromised their relationship. Their kids are best friends.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)I voted for Burke as a POSSIBLE hurdle for the WI legislature to overcome, but I didn't believe she actually had a grasp on what reality looked like for average badger.
postulater
(5,075 posts)Yogi was a wise man.
belzabubba333
(1,237 posts)gonna like the republican candidate even less - remember voting against someone is still better than not voting - lazy kids have fun with your student loan debt
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)it is a zero sum game. I blame all the non voters for our loss. A reason to vote is because the other side votes everytime. I don't have 1% empathy with your point of view.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)'someone on the state level or national level didn't do their jobs'.
It's the Party's job to put forward viable candidates. If you can't put forward a candidate who's obviously enough a better candidate than Walker, or Kasich, or Scott then you've screwed the voters.
(Although I really thought Crist would beat Scott.)
RKP5637
(67,108 posts)okieinpain
(9,397 posts)a repug can do anything worse to it.
Moondog
(4,833 posts)And it was ever thus.
Baitball Blogger
(46,705 posts)The question now is whether the party will learn from the experience.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)That would be a start. Everyone saw what a phony he was. He lost the Governors race under 3 different party titles. Come on. Florida is better than that. I guess if Scott Walker decides to run as a Democratic Nominee, we are all going to line up behind him and get him elected. It was as absurd with Crist. Democratic voters couldn't stand him as a Republican Governor and then suddenly were expected to support him when the magical "D" appeared? Absurd! And the Democratic Party should have known better.
Baitball Blogger
(46,705 posts)Last edited Sat Nov 8, 2014, 07:07 PM - Edit history (4)
We have a good ole boy network in Central Florida that crosses party lines. Many of the convoluted decisions that cities have made in this past that involved land development were based on questionable legal opinions from city attorneys. i.e. these were activist attorneys who were pushing the envelope on sovereignty issues. Some were even involved in pushing a "novel" approach that would have changed land development law, giving cities the power to make decisions over land zoning changes, which at that time was considered quasi-judicial, instead of legislative. These lawyers believed they had immunity, which must have emboldened them. In other words, these lawyers believed that they would not be held legally accountable for their involvement in a land development issue. They were wrong.
It all backfired when a developer who felt targeted by them hired a smart lawyer who not only challenged their immunity claim (and won), but was able to explain, in plain language (so that people assembled at a city meeting could understand) that the city was not following State law. <Footnote 1>
Unfortunately, this developer was not liked by a coterie of ordinary people who had elevated this land zoning issue into a personal fight. Not surprisingly, they assumed the developer was the bad guy and never took the time to understand land zoning laws well enough to A) negotiate better deals and B) understand and accept their legal limitations. In all fairness, the lawyers in the area were not much help. Hard to say whose side they were on, even now.
In the end, the developer prevailed and there was a Mexican stand-off between the corrupt public attorneys and the coterie of people who had turned this whole mess into a personal grudge. They were partly composed of gullible, misled individuals; Republicans/Libertarians who were mentally wired to hate government and just wanted the city to give them what they wanted; and a contingency of thirdway style democrats-neoliberals who forgot that Democrats are supposed to respect government process. <Footnote 2>
The dispute with the developer was resolved with a settlement agreement that gave him two million dollars to go away. The same agreement also contained a confidentiality clause, that I believe became a détente between the attorneys and the community leaders who were most involved in this fracas. These groups, who ordinarily did not like each other, were now bonded to one another because of the need to keep the information tapped down. (Because there were other victims that were not included in the lawsuit.)
Essentially, that confidentiality clause gave the lawyers and the community leaders a chance to start all over. It allowed them to set-up a status quo that was committed to perpetuating a cover-up. This mission has created a surreal situation that rewards people who will take up the mantle to continue a story that at its foundation, is false. You can't do this without the cooperation of several lawyers to back up that "story."
So, enter Charlie Crist. If he had succeeded in becoming our next governor, the people involved with this scandal would have felt reasonably confident that they would not have to worry about legal ramifications. Not that Crist had any role to play in the original antics, but it's the environment of our political system that would have made him rely on the people involved in the fracas because a few of them are rainmakers. To this day they manage to hold onto power because the money they are able to pour into political campaigns provides them with influence.
I am not in anyway saying that this particular local scandal had anything to do with Democrats being turned off by Crist, but I suspect that it is many such governmental collapses that finally wore everybody down.
To get the high ground, Florida Democrats not only have to redefine themselves as the party of reason and fairness, but also have to explain in very simple terms that small government is a cardboard cut-out that people shouldn't fall for. Behind the label, small government is just the same ole backroom cronyistic system that we have all come to associate with good ole boys.
Since people only tend to pay attention when they have something to fear, here is what should concern them: There are people in their communities who are intentionally spreading lies and misinformation. It is this intentional attempt to keep people from learning the truth that is creating a very hostile environment where people feel like they have to form alliances in order to create some semblance of a social life.
I hate to say it, but when I dissect these alliances to determine what binds people together around here, nobody seems to be getting it right.
- - - - -
Footnote 1: Actually, it was the combination of the explanation from the city's special counselor and the developer's lawyer that painted a curious picture. For background: the city, which appealed to small government types and property rights supporters, were playing out their own sovereign rule experiment, practicing government without an established constitution. <The city never filed a Comprehensive Plan and a couple of its early ex-city attorneys became staunch property rights supporters and welded influence in the community afterwards>. For most of the early decades, the city resolved land development disputes in court and relied on settlement agreements to determine zoning changes. Such was the case with the developer who sued the city and prevailed. Their disagreement cropped out of an early settlement agreement. When the developer submitted conceptual plans for his proposed developments, there were slight adjustments that incensed the community and this opened an opportunity for a coterie of people to organize an attempt to stop his developments.
It marked a change in the city's evolution when the city joined forces with this group of residents who had, in the past, organized efforts to stop city projects. This change would be most noticeable in the way the city argued its case. They hired a special counselor, who after months of research, presented state law requirements that she felt were needed before the city could approve rezonings of the developer's property (even though these rezonings had already been approved through the settlement agreement signed a few years before.) The irony here, is that the special counselor introduced the same legal state requirements that the city had been circumventing for years due to their sovereignty efforts.
When the developer's lawyer's turn came up in that city meeting, he essentially explained that the settlement agreement that they had entered into with the city was, essentially a contract. And in the contract it stated that the city was required to file any necessary paperwork to permit the construction. The claim they would present in court involved estoppel. They would argue that because of this early agreement they had with the city, the city could not now erect road blocks to prevent the construction.
I would have given anything to be in City Hall that day when Republicans in the room must have suddenly understood why it was so important for local government to follow due process. The smart ones would have realized that if the city had properly followed state law there would have been properly noticed meetings for the rezonings where members of the public might have stood a chance to listen to the details in time to develop legal strategies, or attempt better negotiations. Instead, they were always going to be behind the eight ball because many of the city meetings were just set up to approve settlement agreements, where the details had already been hashed out by a select handful of people. This style of select committee groups is how the city still operates to this day.
Footnote 2: Among the people who were most opposed to the developer were individuals who the developer claimed in his complaint, were involved in a conspiracy to interfere with his business. <tortious business interference.> Indeed, there are strong indications that a few were not operating in an unselfish manner. In other words, they stood to benefit from the developer's downfall.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)I was wondering what the whole story behind Crist was.
Baitball Blogger
(46,705 posts)Things are pretty out of kilter around here. Even if you take my personal experience out of the picture, most people are acute enough to see that local government applies its regulatory powers on the little people, and opens backdoors for a favored group who have something to barter with. What makes this process nefarious, is the growing reliance on those who have backroom access to push forward public projects. This hand-picked group of civilians are essentially spreading lies and misinformation to everyone else in order to make themselves useful to the powers that be for the benefits it brings them.
In fact, I'm going to go over my post and add details because there are so many twists and turns in the lawyer's arguments that it will reveal that Republicans stand for nothing except results. What happened to my community is exactly what happens when neo-liberals or thirdwayers go along with their schemes.
tosh
(4,423 posts)Gwen Graham Defeats Incumbent Congressman Steve Southerland
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014/11/04/gwen-graham-defeats-incumbent-congressman-steve-southerland/
---------------------------------------------
We are NOT a TOTAL LOSS!
steve2470
(37,457 posts)tosh
(4,423 posts)please give my thanks and my best regards to your brother!
steve2470
(37,457 posts)Lifelong Protester
(8,421 posts)the state Democratic Party can NOT take the momentum of the 2011 protests and turn that into victory.
There are many of us in WI who voted against Walker, three times. So please, don't tar us all with the same brush. I'm not happy living with a lot of folks who think Walker is doing a great job, either. So what are we supposed to do? Abandon the state? I'm in education, should I just abandon the schools and children?
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)meow2u3
(24,764 posts)djean111
(14,255 posts)marions ghost
(19,841 posts)Yes the Dems can do better and the distancing from Obama was a BIG mistake IMO.
But there are other factors at work. And the margins are very close.
djean111
(14,255 posts)unload on an entire state. At least I do not run the danger of meeting them and thinking they are rational.
shenmue
(38,506 posts)Sometimes I think there are only five sane people left on this site. It's nice to not be the only one.
steve2470
(37,457 posts)I'm certainly not going to write off AL, GA, MS, LA, SC, ID, UT, NE, SD, etc etc
Gwen Graham won in FL, so let's celebrate that. The rat bastard alien had to spend more of his personal fortune to hold onto the governor's office, so that's something to be happy about. He's poorer now, but still filthy rich, damnit.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)regnaD kciN
(26,044 posts)B2G
(9,766 posts)Who needs 'em? Not us!
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Recall
theglammistress
(348 posts)and I worry for this state. Have for a long time. The Fitzgerald campaign was just unacceptable. For such an important state, you'd think someone with campaign expertise would have come in here and helped - provided guidance on a better candidate, helped with ground game, etc.
The governor's race in ANY state shouldn't be a cakewalk for either party really... but when we're talking about a state that literally chooses the president... come on, man!
Response to LW1977 (Original post)
NCTraveler This message was self-deleted by its author.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)in wherever they did. Someone has to tell the truth. And I also agree that I do not feel sorry for them. Don't think I did before. They were already past sympathy after they failed to learn from Tommy Thompson.
Beringia
(4,316 posts)Unbelievable he gets reelected.
Release The Hounds
(467 posts)Don't hurt your elbow patting yourself on the back.