Let's start the push now for single-payer.

[silvershadow]

Republicans are threatening repeal of Obamacare, and with help from SCOTUS they may get their wish. Why wait any longer? ACA is here for now, for better or worse. And it could get worse. So why are we waiting? Let's get on with:

-Single payer healthcare for all
-Higher minimum wages, and this time let us tie it to automatic increases.
-Demand accountability on issues like the Patriot Act, NSA surveillance, etc.
-Demand an audit of the Fed. I realize this is largely a right-wing, tea-bagger issue, but there is no reason we can't co-opt it.
-Demand investigations into the Great Depression of 2007-2008. (And that's how we should always refer to it. Place the blame squarely where it belongs. They have both houses, so hound them to investigate).

There are a million other things too, but I'm busy at the moment. What would you add? We need to PUSH like never before to get this ship right. We need to PUSH our party as much as we need to push the other one. Let's just get the agenda right out front. What say you? (as Billo the Clown says, LOL)

[Kath1]

1. Agree 100%!

Single-payer is the best way to go. No doubt about it.

[Wella]

12. That should have been the goal to begin with

Not this french kiss to the insurance agencies.

[True Blue Door]

22. It was the goal to begin with, and remains the goal. ACA was a step.

We have to (a)elect a Congress that will pass single-payer, and (b)ensure we have a law-abiding Supreme Court that wouldn't just peremptorily strike it down because Republicans don't like it. We had neither in 2009, and have neither now.

[Wella]

49. Keep telling yourself that as Anthem and Kaiser run away with obscene amounts of lucre

We'll never see single payer with the insurance companies intact.

[True Blue Door]

60. While you're planning your Perfect System, do you think maybe we mere mortals

can be permitted practical access to healthcare? That's what ACA does.

[Wella]

62. Don't come crying when your rates go up.

Yes, that will happen. The only real price control would have been the "public option" and that was scrapped in the Senate plan pushed by Max Baucus but written by a former Anthem exec. Glad you love to turn your hard-earned money over to corporations that are now working to limit your healthcare networks.

[True Blue Door]

66. Except rates have gone down, across the board.

The people mostly claiming otherwise are Republicans.

[Wella]

68. New York Times: Cost of Coverage Under Afforable Care Act to Increase in 2015

You mean "Republicans" like the New York Times?

Cost of Coverage Under Affordable Care Act to Increase in 2015
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/15/us/politics/cost-of-coverage-under-affordable-care-act-to-increase-in-2015.html

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration on Friday unveiled data showing that many Americans with health insurance bought under the Affordable Care Act could face substantial price increases next year — in some cases as much as 20 percent — unless they switch plans.

The data became available just hours before the health insurance marketplace was to open to buyers seeking insurance for 2015.

An analysis of the data by The New York Times suggests that although consumers will often be able to find new health plans with prices comparable to those they now pay, the situation varies greatly from state to state and even among counties in the same state....

[True Blue Door]

69. Ah yes, "many Americans." Akin to "some say."

[Wella]

70. It's the New York Times, kid.

Deal with it.

[True Blue Door]

74. Ah yes, the "liberal media" paper of record that endorsed the Iraq War.

[Wella]

75. Actually the Obama administration admitted prices were going up in 2015 according to

the NY Times:

Cost of Coverage Under Affordable Care Act to Increase in 2015
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/15/us/politics/cost-of-coverage-under-affordable-care-act-to-increase-in-2015.html?_r=1

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration on Friday unveiled data showing that many Americans with health insurance bought under the Affordable Care Act could face substantial price increases next year — in some cases as much as 20 percent — unless they switch plans.

The data became available just hours before the health insurance marketplace was to open to buyers seeking insurance for 2015.

An analysis of the data by The New York Times suggests that although consumers will often be able to find new health plans with prices comparable to those they now pay, the situation varies greatly from state to state and even among counties in the same state.

[True Blue Door]

78. There's that "many Americans" bullshit again.

[TheKentuckian]

51. Step 1. Make insurance cartel a too big to fail AND require patronage 2. ???

3. SINGLE PAYER!

There is nothing in the law that causes single payer any more so than the existing system other than the waivers and they could just as likely or more be used for mischief depending on who is in the right place and time or not.

It is a con, it doesn't even begin to make sense and is explained with psychobabble, never the actual structure of the law and bizarre non sequitur issues with Social Security not covering agricultural workers as a supposed response to structural issues with the WealthCare and Profit Protection Act as if adding a class to the eligibility is the same as going from private for profit to public program.

[True Blue Door]

61. You people keep talking about ideals that exist only in your imagination

and I'm talking about millions of people who can get healthcare because of ACA.

When you have a plan to actually realize single-payer, then we can talk about that plan.

But if your plan so far consists only of bitching about and trying to undermine the closest thing we have to it, not interested.

[TheKentuckian]

65. No, it was asserted that the ACA is a step toward single payer. No sense getting huffy when asked

how that works and what the mechanisms are.

I spoke to no ideals, I asked about an asserted feature and how it functions.

This isn't the old time gospel hour, to talk about faith and hope. You are saying a law does something, explain how.

[True Blue Door]

67. Millions of people who couldn't have access to healthcare now do thanks to ACA.

What part of that is difficult to understand?

What part of that, frankly, is open to moral interpretation unless you're against wealth redistribution (which I am not)?

[TheKentuckian]

73. You are apparently responding to questions other than the ones posed to you

Again, I asked how the law leads to single payer, what does that have to do with your response?

You made an assertion, support it instead of dancing and appealing to emotions.

[Wella]

71. Thank you.

You hit the nail on the head.

[UglyGreed]

30. Yes get them out

ASAP!!!!

[yeoman6987]

76. Clearly, everyone has forgotten who takes over

in January. The Republicans hate that idea.

[Prophet 451]

2. I can think of a couple of things to add

1) a register of animal abusers. If you're on the register, you can't own animals.
2) You have both unemployed people and a crumbling infrastructure. Create a new WPA and use one to fix the other.
3) A minimum wage of $15, tied to inflation.

[Rhiannon12866]

6. +1000!

Also terrific ideas!!!

[Ken Burch]

23. Addition to the animal abuser registry idea:

If you're an animal abuser on the register, you should be required to introduce yourself to your neighbors as an animal abuser each time you move to a new neighborhood.

[customerserviceguy]

3. Now that we've got a Repuke controlled Congress

Sure, why not? What could possibly go wrong?

[Live and Learn]

7. Well, at least that will put them on the defense and maybe

they will at least quit trying to take away the little we have gained.

[Skittles]

9. repukes will NEVER quit trying to f*** the non-rich American people

NEVER

[Live and Learn]

10. Which is why we have to keep them busy with new demands. nt

[silvershadow]

39. And this ^ was largely my point. If we don't push back, we keep sliding rightward. Enough inching

off a cliff.

[Live and Learn]

41. I got it and I agree.

I remember a time when getting gay marriage through seemed hopeless. But when enough people keep pushing things we can get change through. It may take a while but at least we can keep them busy with new demands to fret over.

[customerserviceguy]

17. Surely, you are dreaming

In the last ten or so days, I've seen people here drift from disbelief into outright denial. The Repukes are not, and will not be on the defense for at least the next two years. They've won Congress back, and they can thwart any of the President's initiatives, even if they don't get their own whack ideas signed into law.

We need a functioning government, they feel they don't. I expect them to not blink when it comes to games of 'chicken' where they attach their wet dreams to essential government funding bills that the President will try to veto.

[Live and Learn]

31. And during the same period, I have witnessed a few here

presume to know what others believe or think from a simple innocuous post.

Yes, they will obstruct where ever possible and yes, they will pass terrible legislation. We are all aware of that.

What do you suggest we do about it? Lay down and cry?

Some here are simply making suggestions as to what we might attempt to do. You don't have to like the suggestions but there is no need to snidely deride them or the posters making them especially when you don't have any better ideas.

[customerserviceguy]

45. Doing something towards 2016

and fantasizing about what the Rethuglicans might feel that goes our way are two entirely different things.

We have a much better election map two years from now. We're just going to have to dig in and accept that zero progress is going to be made for the next session of Congress, and we need to make sure the GOP gets as much blame for that as possible, in motivating voters to the polls who seem to need some identity politics to feel that there's something in it for them.

How's that for an idea? It will probably work better than trying to get votes on single payer that have no more chance of getting through Congress (or even coming to the floor for a vote) than Rethuglicans' efforts to repeal the ACA did for the last four years.

[Live and Learn]

47. Fantasizing that digging in and accepting zero progress is a strategy

seems pretty useless to me. But to each their own.

Go ahead and burrow in and I'll see you in a couple of years.

[customerserviceguy]

54. Other than compromise with the GOP

what else do you think can possibly be accomplished? Figuring that the Rethuglicans will even entertain the notion of single payer is what I call a fantasy.

The very best we can possibly hope for in the next two years is stalemate, and I have severe doubts we can accomplish that much. Repukes are going to attach their pet projects to essential legislation, and they really don't give a crap if they shut the whole government down for months at a time, no matter what Yertle the Turtle says.

[Live and Learn]

58. Nobody suggested that they would entertain the idea.

What we are suggesting is that we demand single payer along with other progressive ideas. As I recall, there was a time that gay marriage seemed a ridiculous thing to ever wish for. And yet, due to progressives demanding it over and over again it became a reality.

Instead of burrowing and waiting until we think the time might be opportune, we need to start flooding the public with the ideas now.

Granted the next few years will be rough but that is no reason to rest on our laurels and hope they don't take them away. In fact, quite the opposite. We need to get to work and start informing the public and demanding what is correct.

[Ken Burch]

24. It doesn't mean expecting to PASS it in the next two years, for God's sakes.

Last edited Sat Nov 15, 2014, 02:44 AM - Edit history (1)

It means getting it out there to, among other things, build ACTIVE grassroots support and involvement and for the next elections.

[Live and Learn]

34. +1 nt

[customerserviceguy]

55. If it's a motivating tactic for 2016, fine

However, it risks having us look impotent and ineffectual when nothing comes of it, not even floor votes.

Put it in a platform for 2016, and see if it does any good there.

[Ken Burch]

56. We need to start the push now in order to GET it into the platform.

If we wait 'til '16, the party will say "why should we back single-payer? Nobody cares about it".

[customerserviceguy]

57. If we can get it in there, fine

Do it by whatever means necessary. But don't expect anything more than that to come of it.

We're really in for a rough two years, and I hope everybody else sees that. The President is going to sign all kinds of crazy crap before he leaves the White House, and many of us are going to be truly fed up with the Democratic Party in the next 23 months. I hope that it does not discourage us from keeping our eyes on the prize, which is another Democrat in the White House (yes, even if it's Hillary) and a shot at taking back at least the Senate, which is within our grasp two years from now.

[Live and Learn]

59. Exactly, we need to really push and not let up.

And now is the perfect time.

[Wellstone ruled]

4. With many of the new enrollments now begining

lots of folks are going to opt out and pay the tax fine and go with out insurance. Looks like the Red States are allowing premiums to go insane thus stabbing Mr. Obama in the back,F---- the citizens. Going to be interesting.

[Cleita]

5. I said this more than a decade ago on DU and I will say it again.

You will never get single payer until every last insurance company and for profit HMOs gets out of the health care business. Once it is no longer profitable for them, they will get out. Now I do have hopes that the ACA may start accomplishing that because health care is one of those human institutions that should not be traded on Wall Street.

[DesertFlower]

8. i agree. even when you get medicare you

have to take a supplemental policy with an insurance company.

[still_one]

32. you pay 100 dollars for Part B, plus the cost of supplemental, which is optional, but is very costly

if you don't have it, and don't forget the drug plans another premium cost

Hope you don't need dental work or eyeglasses, they aren't covered

[DesertFlower]

35. my supplmental isn't too bad but my income is high so i do pay more

for medicare and part d. i can't complain about having a good income.

my friends were so happy when they reached medicare age. they were paying $720 for health insurance through her employer. they both go to a lot of docs so now with medicare and supplemental it comes to $710 and some of her docs don't take medicare.

it's not illegal but it's unethical. what are we older folks supposed to do if the doc doesn't take it?

[still_one]

40. Some states are better than others. Texas is one of the worse for doctors who won't accept Medicare

California is one of the best.

Usually major medical centers will take Medicare. If you have Supplemental F or G, it is more expensive, but you have more choice

[Shemp Howard]

11. What would you be willing to trade for it?

I know it's fun to dream, but let's be realistic for a moment.

For at least the next two years the Republicans can block every last single-payer proposal that comes up. So we will either have to wait two years (minimum!), or give the Republicans something really significant in exchange for single-payer.

And that leads to an interesting question. What should progressives be willing to exchange in order to get single-payer health insurance?

No fair saying "nothing"...that will simply lead to no single-payer health insurance. I guess it's fair to say "nothing, let's just wait it out for two years". But that might be just a tad bit too optimistic about the future.

So what would you, the DU community, be willing to exchange?

Perhaps no capital gains taxes? (Just throwing that one out, as uncomfortable as it might be.)

[still_one]

33. This republican party will NEVER accept single payer. Hell, if they could they would get rid of

Social Security and Medicare, and have been talking about it for years.

Why would they compromise now that they have both houses, when they wouldn't compromise when they had the Senate?

[Pharaoh]

13. What say I?

I say you should run Silvershadow!

[IronLionZion]

14. HR 676, whip the votes in both houses of congress to pass it

and have it on the president's desk by tomorrow morning. Hurry!

Push it real good

[Dream Forever]

15. yes

agree 100%

[SheilaT]

16. We could start with Medicare for all.

I've recently gone on Medicare and I'm quite impressed at how good it is, at least for my needs. Yes, I do have to pay a little over a hundred bucks a month for parts B and D, the prescription drug coverage, which I've chosen to roll over into an Advantage plan that makes me quite happy. No copay at all for routine office visits and the bloodwork they do. Three month supply of the medications I take, no copay.

I realize others are in a different situation and may be paying more out of pocket, but if we start with Medicare for all and then expand it as it needs to be, I think it could work.

[RufusTFirefly]

19. Yes. Assuming it scales, that's the simplest way to start.

The Republicans kept proposing crazy right wing policies that inevitably let to ultra conservative compromises that seemed like victories to Democrats who weren't paying attention.

We need the courage of our convictions. The People are with us on most of these things. It's Congress Inc. and the Corporate Media who are our principal obstacles.

They may be a little nutty when it comes to God, guns, and gays, but lower and middle class conservatives want clean water and air, affordable health care, and a living wage just as we do.

[jazzimov]

18. Don't say "single payer", say Medicare for all!

Polls show that "single payer" has bad connotations. However, Medicare for all has positive connotations - even if they are the same thing. But everyone knows Medicare and it has a good rep.

[RufusTFirefly]

21. Good point. Repubs are doing their best to destroy gov't services that work well

Time and again, surveys show that most people love Medicare, the Post Office, and Social Security. That's bad news for people who want to privatize everything in sight.

[Hoyt]

28. Just keep in mind that insurance companies pretty much run Medicare.

Government enacts broad rules, but private insurers do almost everything else. It's basically outsourced.

There is a lot of stuff not covered (dental, eye glasses, hearing aids), no lifetime caps unless you purchase a supplement or Medicare Advantage plan, it won't be a whole lot cheaper than private insurance (if any), etc.

I do think single player would be better, but folks griping over cost now aren't going to get as much relief as they think.

[True Blue Door]

20. Umm...

1. What do you specifically mean "push for single payer" or any of the other items? Make impotent speeches? I think we've got that covered.

2. What do minimum wages, the Patriot Act, NSA surveillance, the Fed, etc. have to do with healthcare? You're all over the place.

If unfocused laundry lists divorced from strategic thinking could bring about change, the Green Party would have swept the nation years ago.

[delrem]

26. In fact there is a kind of "web" spun by single-payer gov't guaranteed health care.

There has to be.
Minimum wage laws are a no-brainer. We can't, as a people, guarantee all citizens adequate health care, if we can't guarantee a minimum standard of living for our workers. Only a scum of people would openly argue against this.
The notion that a city, a county or area should have a problem with "homelessness" also contradicts the principle that all citizens have equal access to health care, which obviously contains the necessaries for staying alive, which includes a home.

[True Blue Door]

29. A fact is not a method.

Stating the fact that single-payer healthcare is needed is not a method for producing it.
Stating the fact that other issues are interconnected is not a method for synergizing the approach to dealing with them.

No amount of fact-finding or fact-stating will convince Republicans, corrupt Democrats, or the lawless fascist revolutionaries on the Supreme Court to side with the people over insurance companies.

The methods for realizing single-payer are as simple to state as they are difficult to actually do:

1. Liberalize the Democratic Party.
2. Take over both houses of Congress with the liberal-controlled Democratic Party.
3. Put a liberal Democrat in the White House at the same time as the liberal Congress.
4. Pass single-payer healthcare.
5. If The Five still control the Supreme Court, pass a resolution warning them of a Constitutional crisis if they attempt to strike down the key provisions of the law based on nothing but partisan activism.
6. Follow through if necessary with a Constitutional Amendment and/or judicial impeachments for abuse of power.

Simultaneously...

1. Enact state-level single-payer systems, going through the same process listed above on the state level if necessary. Fortunately many states have referendums, so the people can directly create their own system.
2. Enact county and local single-payer systems in states where the full state is overly resistant.

Again, easy to state, extremely difficult to do. There are no short-cuts.

[delrem]

25. In Canada, it happened first in one Province.

Once it is in, in all its glory, it stays, and spreads.

It takes a strong political/cultural/ethical ground to nurture it, though.

[TheKentuckian]

53. Five provinces isn't 50 states, your level of difficulty is way, way higher. One province is like

getting 10 states on board and possibly much more of the population or very few but certainly it is much easier to power play it with that many fewer moving parts.

[delrem]

81. "five"?

But yes, I understand your point.

The US is struggling to hang onto the ACA - it's far too right wing across the board, by orders of magnitude, to handle single payer.

Now if single payer were a military project involving only several hundred billions in funding for some by-the-way bombings, that'd be a different story. That'd be just one monolithic "moving part".

[jeff47]

27. Push in the right place.

If you're in a red or purple state, feel free to push nationally.

If you're in a blue state, lean HARD on your state government for single-payer or public option. You might actually get it.

[scarystuffyo]

36. You won't see Democrats talk about any health care reform for a very, very, very long time

They won't touch this issue again

[davidpdx]

37. I agree with pushing for single payer

[scarystuffyo]

38. That will never happen with Democrats and Republicans in control

We would need a new party to win the majority and the Presidency

[Scuba]

42. Medicare for All, including dental, optical, hearing aids, mental health and LTC services.

And yes, we can afford it.

[H2O Man]

43. Recommended!

Outstanding OP!

[LWolf]

46. Agreed. I'll add:

-Abolish neo-liberal education privatization packaged as "reform."
-No more war.

[Doctor_J]

48. How?

We wouldn't do it with huge majorities in house and senate, and the WH. Big Insurance will never let this happen, period.

[Utopian Leftist]

50. Robin Hood Tax on the One Percenters

It frees up billions of dollars annually, to raise people out of poverty.

[shenmue]

52. I agree

[sabrina 1]

63. I thought we had started that push when we elected Dems in 2008.

[slipslidingaway]

64. First you need to convince the Dems in power that SP is worth fighting for and ...

stop blaming the Repubs when the Dems cave once they gain control.

The 'other party' is such a convenient excuse

[RB TexLa]

72. An audit of the federal reserve?

WTF for? To find what?

[silvershadow]

77. Oh I don't even know. I just threw that in after pulling it out of my backside.

Mostly I just want to get back to some form of legitimate, Constitutional government. If they could somehow peel the onion that is the military-industrial complex, the CIA and all the related agencies, that would be of course a wet dream of mine.

[brooklynite]

80. ...because the Federal Reserve isn't legitimate and constitutional?

Sheesh

[silvershadow]

82. Yeah, ok. That's what I said.

[arely staircase]

84. no shit

that is right out of Ron Paul la la land.

[J_J_]

79. End speculation on oil which began with Koch brothers lobbying and enron loophole

End speculation on food which Goldman Sachs started just to make themselves more money-bastards named it after themselves GSCI

This is why food prices are so high.

[arely staircase]

83. I will call congressman Gomhert's office right away

and see if he is on board.

[B Calm]

85. Republican congress will approve wasteful spending fighting wars, but health care

for us just ain't feasible. .