SAY WHAT YOU WANT about President Obama...in 8 years, Bush NEVER did this.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

Last edited Thu Dec 22, 2011, 08:00 PM - Edit history (1)

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OK...here is the original post. I did not have it memorized or written down elsewhere so I am reconstructing it from memory.

This morning, President Obama held a press conference. There had been a previous request for people to submit their responses, via the White House Website, their answer to the question "How would it affect you to lose $40 a month?"

During the press conference, the President read some of the responses.

One person said that he would have to give up his occasional "pizza nights" with his daughters (twins, aged 16).

Another said $40 represented three nights of heating oil, and if that didn't seem like a lot, "try spending three nights in a house without heat."

Another said that represented gas money for the 200 miles he travels every week to visit his dad in a nursing home. Losing the $40 would mean fewer visits.

A third-grade teacher said she makes regular trips to the store each week to buy pencils and other supplies for her class out of her own pocket.

[liberal N proud]

1. Bu$h would be at the chicken ranch by now.

Obama is remaining in Washington to work on this issue, risking missing Christmas with his family.
Can't think of the last time a President has worked for the people through the holidays.

[blogslut]

3. I beg your pardon

It was a former pig farm.

[liberal N proud]

4. My appologies to chickens

I forgot it was pigs.

[Thor_MN]

19. We should apologize to the pigs that it was the Bush "Ranch"

[underpants]

16. Hey hey hey W returned to save Terri Schiavo

he didn't do squat on 9/11
he didn't do anything during Katrina until he made a publicity speech
but for Terri Schiavo he DID return from vacation


oh, was I not supposed to mention Schiavo?

[baldguy]

2. Real people, real lives, real issues. But the GOP can't see beyond their hatred of Obama.

They spend their valuable time "debating" a bill for a statue of Churchill for the Capitol.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

7. !

And again, I say:

!

[DeathToTheOil]

5. Riding

[DeathToTheOil]

8. Kickin' for the Copycat

n/t, AV!

[RC]

6. If the powers that be would work a little harder to get our Living-Wage-Jobs

back in this country, the excuse for the beginning of the destruction of Social Security would not only go away, but Social Security would be better funded and the people that depend on it will be better off.

Why not, if a tax holiday is "needed", just take the money from the general fund in the first place? Why involve the separately taxed Social Security all, unless the real purpose was to plant the seeds to damage and destroy Social Security in the not so distant future...

No we really do not want the Payroll tax cut extended in any way, shape or form. There are much better ways to give people stipends.

[TiberiusB]

28. re-inforcing the Reagan tax cut mantra

Indeed, why the extra step of taking money out of SS only to immediately pay it back from the general fund. That's practically the definition of a ponzi scheme. What isn't getting funded out of the general fund so that SS can be re-paid? Isn't SS prohibited by law from drawing money from the general fund?

Worse, Obama is framing the debate as, once again, "the answer to everything is a tax cut." Someone tell me how the payroll tax gets restored when Obama has served up the perfect attack ad for anyone proposing such a thing.

I can see it now, "President Obama wants to raise the very taxes he said were vital to cut. <cue clip of Obama pressing for payroll tax cut as being vital to the economy and talking about how important even an extra $1,000 is to most Americans> Well, I think most Americans would say they still need that money, Mr. President. I stand with them in opposition to this tax hike. Times are tough, let's not make them tougher."

Anyone seriously doubt this will happen? In any debate about any tax increase, payroll or otherwise?

[emulatorloo]

34. Dem frame = tax relief for 99 percent. Republican frame = pretend tax hike on 1 per cent

is a tax hike on everybody.

This is nothing new. Dems have long claimed that tax cuts should go to middle class and below, because those people need the money and will spend it in the economy. While the rich can afford to pay their fair share.

[TiberiusB]

44. It's messier than that...

But there is a fundamental flaw in that position, and it is that tax cuts are inherently good and should be everyone's go to solution. That's the real poison here, it all simply reinforces the GOP position on tax cutting as a philosophy. I should also point out that the cut to the Payroll Tax benefits the top 1%, too? It is ironic that the higher your wages, the more you will benefit (up to the cap, anyway). The very poor and the unemployed will get little or nothing.

Yes, we all know that you can't find a more complete group of tools than the GOP outside of a Home Depot. I worry more about our side's relentless drift to the right, even on bedrock issues like Social Security.

[DeathToTheOil]

9. Automatic Rs Guaranteed by Longterm Membership

Strikes me as positively Rotarian! (Or perhaps another R-word with four syllables.)

[siligut]

17. The OP is a beautiful example of Obama's compassion for the 99%

That is what my R is for.

[HughBeaumont]

10. Tax cuts are all they have. Their corporate handlers and abettors aren't raising our wages.

They've been pulling this con for three decades now.

Predator lunatics truly have taken over the asylum.

[Scurrilous]

11. "FUCK Boehner, FUCK them ALL."

Succinct!

[Amerigo Vespucci]

15. I posted that in the original and forgot to add it when I re-wrote the post...

...but yes, in the original, I did say that, and I still feel the same way.

[Left Coast2020]

21. Thats why I love this link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10172337

Such creative words in a song.

[Sirveri]

12. The message body of this post was accidentally deleted due to an unexpected bug in our new software.

WTF?

[Tx4obama]

13. There was a big problem eariler to day with the GD forum....

they recovered as much data as they could but not for all the threads.
The bug affected the OPs but not the comments.

Hope that helps.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

14. I updated the post with the original text (to the best of my recollection)

The bug has been fixed but they weren't able to restore my post, so I did an update and re-wrote it above.

[opihimoimoi]

18. Bush??? W Bush??? This is what he has to say.....

[Historic NY]

20. This wasn't a stunt...it showed empathy for the lesser of us....he could have just gone off ..

on vacation but he didn't, he fought.

[hfojvt]

26. uh, the "lesser of us" don't make $50,000 a year

and we aren't getting $1,000 from this tax cut.

Let's not forget the families who make over $200,000 a year who will get $4,000 a year from this permanent payroll tax cut.

An unemployed person will get no benefits from the payroll tax cut, but I am sure that the $4,000 that the rich household gets will trickle down to him/her.

Somehow.

[Lunabelle]

22. I saw the president to day and was very proud of his confidence in dealing with the repigs.

I know Obama isn't perfect, but I actually think he cares.

[hfojvt]

23. Bush never gave examples of people who benefit from his tax cuts?

"When you hear the debate about this kind of class warfare, rhetoric about, oh, this is for the rich, only for the rich -- I want you to think about the Joe Kempers of the world. I certainly will. A fellow who worked for our government, and now a fellow who we trust with that $3,500, because it's his money. And when he invests it, it's going to have a positive effect. All the Joe Kempers of the world taking that extra money and investing it will mean somebody else is likely to find a job, and that's important for our fellow Americans to understand." Feb 12, 2003

Boy, tax cuts are so awesome, we should have more of them.

Now the RNC can solicit emails from people whose taxes will go up if the Bush tax cuts expire.

"The tax relief is for everyone who pays income taxes -- and it will help our economy immediately: 92 million Americans will keep, this year, an average of almost $1,000 more of their own money. A family of four with an income of $40,000 would see their federal income taxes fall from $1,178 to $45 per year. (Applause.) Our plan will improve the bottom line for more than 23 million small businesses." Jan. 28, 2003

Just like last time, Republicans won't allow some of them to be extended unless they are all extended, so if Obama does not cave again, then those 92 million Americans will see their taxes go up by $40 a fortnight - just like now.

Having made $12,000 a year or so for the last 4 years I gotta wonder why all those people are so strapped at $50,000 a year that they have their hands out for another $1,000 from the government. I wonder how the millions of unemployed feel about the whiners with $50,000 a year jobs.

[SunsetDreams]

25. Yikes a post in defense of Bush?

If you notice the OP cites examples of what real people had to say ie: Can't have pizza night with daughters, would pay for more heating...it gets to the heart of the matter.

What you cite as Bush quotes, speaks in generalities. Not a single quote from a single person about what an extra $40.00 means.

[hfojvt]

27. I am sure the $40 a fortnight meant as much to real people

as the $40 from the accursed payroll tax cut.

Bush just didn't think of that shameless of a way to sell his pile of excrement.

Now that Obama has shown them the way, I am sure the RNC will pick up on it. But really, Bush already ploughed that ground too

"I urge every citizen to participate in this important debate and to make your voice heard. Explain to your local representative or your senators what tax relief would mean to your family and your business, and please tell the members of Congress why our economy needs that relief now." May 10, 2003

"The more things change, the more they stay the same." Cinderella

Yes, Mr. President tax cuts for the rich mean the world to me.

Yep, $110 billion in tax cuts. $51 billion goes to the richest 20%. $4 billion goes to the poorest 20%. $80 billion goes to the richest 40% and $13.3 billion goes to the poorest 40%.

Now if only some household making $200,000 a year would write in and explain what $153 a fortnight would mean to them.

Defending Bush? No, I am trying to shame Obama, but it seems that most Democrats here have fully embraced tax cuts for the rich.

[emulatorloo]

36. " but it seems that most Democrats here have fully embraced tax cuts for the rich."

That kind of hyperbolic statement doesn't help your argument.

[Bonobo]

24. My mistake...

I thought this was going to be an OP about ordering the CIA to kill US citizens with unmanned vehicles.

[mmonk]

29. Yes, I liked that. Shows how desperate we have become.

[IamK]

30. So many people on here agreeing that tax cuts are good for the economy all of a sudden &

republicans fighting against them... things are getting wierd...

[Martin Eden]

31. Tax cuts for lower income people who will spend the money is good for the economy; always has been

Lower taxes in general are a good thing, taken out of context. However, context is critical. If lower taxes contributes to mushrooming deficts or scaling back the social safety net and investment in infrastructure & education, it's not a good thing.

Our most immediate problem today is high unemployment in a struggling economy. Measures are needed to create jobs, and putting more money into the hands of people who tend to spend all their disposable income is one way to do it. Putting more money into the hands of the 1% (who the R's call 'job creators') hasn't done a thing to create more jobs; it just makes them richer.

However, I disagree with reducing the payroll tax and replacing those funds from the general revenue. I think it's a dangerous game to mix the two, because it can be played both ways. Instead, I'd lower the payroll tax rate to what it was before Reagan increased it, then increase the overall payroll tax revenue by lifting the income cap on contributions. This would provide stimulus by putting more money in the hands of people who will spend it while also extending the financial solvency of the Social Security system.

[Kolesar]

35. A bigger stimulus was needed, but we ended up with this payroll-tax-cut "game"

And it is a game.

[Martin Eden]

38. Politics is a game. A tax cut is a policy.

The two are of course inextricably linked; politics must be played to implement any policy.

Sure, a bigger stimulus was needed -- but we can't retroactively make it bigger.

President Obama recently proposed the American Jobs Act, which included additional stimulus spending. The Republicans with their House majority and filibustering Senate minority killed it. They will (with one caveat) kill any attempt by Obama to improve the economy because an improved economy will improve his chances for re-election.

The "caveat" applies when their obstructionism does more to hurt their own electoral prospects. What Obama is doing with this 'payroll-tax-cut 'game'' is applying that caveat. While the Republicans in Congress have the power to block any legislation, this "game" is just about the only cards the president has to play.

I don't like it any better than you do. What better options -- given the political reality -- does the president have?

[dotymed]

43. IMO, He should

take it directly to the people. Everyday until they realize (and pressure the repubs) that we must increase taxes for the wealthy very much.

[hfojvt]

39. I guess the fact that only 12% of this tax cut actually goes to lower income people

is irrelevant?

Either that, or somehow people in the 60th percentile have become "lower income people".

[RC]

32. It is amazing how many of us suddenly think tax cuts are the answer, when not all that long ago they

were the cause of our debt/deficit problems.
All that actually happened is that the parties flip-flopped and we dutifully flip-flopped with them.

We have truly become a nation of unthinking drones that deserve our fate.

It is a con people. We are being had again.

[emulatorloo]

37. No. Most DU'ers beleive that tax cuts for the rich caused the debt and deficit problem

Only recently have some loud DU'ers tried to claim that all tax cuts are bad.

[hfojvt]

40. now that is not hyperbolic?

Who is claiming that all tax cuts are bad?

My own complaint is about tax cuts that give 46% of their benefits to the top 20% and only 3.8% of their benefits to the bottom 20%.

[Martin Eden]

42. Not all tax cuts are the same.

It depends on who gets the tax cut and what effect it has on the economy and on deficts.

For example, the Earned Income Tax Credit allows lower-income workers to keep more of their pay, often resulting in zero income tax paid. It is first and foremost a tax cut for lower income Americans. Are you opposed to this long-standing tax cut?

I oppose tax cuts that do little or nothing to stimulate the economy and serve primarily to make the rich richer while adding to our national debt. Do you think the extension of the payroll tax cut falls into that category? I have never changed my position on this issue, regardless of who is president. Our economy is struggling, and unemployment is high. The president's American Jobs Act was shot down by the Republican-controlled House. Putting more money in the hands of people who will spend that money is one way to stimulate the economy, and this payroll tax cut appears to be the only measure at this time that can be pushed past the Republican obstructionists.

[Progressive dog]

33. Depends on whose taxes are cut

Simple choices to stimulate demand.
!) Government spends on infrastructure and productive employment to put money into the economy.
2) Government cuts regressive taxes, putting money into hands of those likely to spend it.
3) Government increases transfer payments such as SSI, unemployment insurance.
4) Government continues to cut progressive taxes.

Simple choice to force the end of democracy.
1) Government allows the extreme inequality of income and wealth to continue. If stimulus and democracy are both desirable, than cuts in progressive taxes give the least stimulus and undermine democracy.

Simple choice given the fascist tilt of the Congress.
1) Cut regressive taxes. Don't let them cut SSI or unemployment insurance. Keep trying for infrastructure and employment spending.

[T S Justly]

41. A progressive Democratic nominee would deny Obama the opportunity ...

To even try.