Ooops! Turns out women are (sexist) pigs, too. And they're completely blind to it.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

I'm a 48 y/o straight, single man and currently employed as a social worker, a heavily female dominated field. The team I work on consists of 5 women between age 21 and 33, and myself. I was recently at a department party and out of about 20-25 people, 4 were men.

Being an old guy, I believe demographics matter, and to the point of this thread, gender. I can only speculate - youth and inexperience? idealism? post-sexist generation? - I've been lectured by the 20 y/o's about how it's wrong to reinforce gender role concepts such as one I had put forth: "Hey, you know, I need to talk to him about this. It's different coming from a man." The response to that was, in so many words, "It shouldn't be different and you shouldn't reinforce this."

So I've been doing my best to respect their point of view and have done a very good job. Once, I said something I didn't realize was sexist, but they helped me understand why it was. I thanked them for helping me understand. Then Thursday, in an attempt to boost my coworker's morale (we all rallied around her) after a bad experience with a client, I texted (we are community outreach and work independently) something regrettable: "That's bullshit, C, we all know you're a sweetheart."

Sweatheart, I texted, YIKES!

Everyone let it go, but after about 5 minutes passed, I realized what I had done and was mortified. I texted an apology to everyone at that point, stating I can do better. I then apologized to her face-to-face when we got back to the office.

So that covers me, but this thread isn't about me. It's about women, they're sexist pigs, they don't know it, in fact they're blind to it, and when you point it out, meh...they really don't care.



So long, long ago, before the lecture I mentioned above about gender roles and whatnot, on about 3 occasions, the staff meeting got derailed by a conversation about different, very hot male staff in other offices. Each time it happened, I chuckled inside. Finally, after the 3rd occasion, I turned to the woman next to me and whispered, "You guys get away with a lot!" She replied, "Like what?" I returned, "When it happens, I'll nudge you."

Every single one of them was in on it, the team supervisor, nurse (6th woman), and young post-sexist generation women, alike. There's two really, sexist pig aspects to this, one I'll address later. For now, I want to inform you just how "bad" (i.e., pig like) all of these women are. Every single one of them lives with their husband, fiance, or long-time boyfriend. All of them! I'm trying to come up with a scenario in which married (or other) women would not have that visceral "My husband/boyfriend is always looking at other women and it hurts me!" reaction. I cannot.

Those staff meetings occurred literally months ago. Fast forward to Friday, the very day after my regrettable "sweetheart" text.

So Friday rolls along and one of them cracked out of turn, then the dam broke. Unbeknownst to me, one of the women had a private meeting with the team heartthrob. On the group text in which I was included, there was a barrage of giddy gah gah over him and his interaction with one of the post-sexist generation women (D, the lecturer). The supervisor was deep in the muck, too.

Gotcha!

So I butted in with this text:

"Oh boy, glad I'm the only male on the team and not one of 5 men talking about a hot female coworker in front of the lone woman on the team."

Oh, they carried on as if I wasn't even there. In fact, only one woman, C (the sweetheart from the previous day) replied directly to me immediately: "It's nice that we can objectify men just the same!"

An hour or two later, I got back to the office and walked right back into the middle of this ongoing swooning. D, the 21 y/o post-sexist generation lecturer was right in it but blushing because she knew she got caught. She also noticed I was taken aback. She scrambled and said, "We love you, M".

I left soon after and almost immediately received a text from D who said she was sorry she made me feel uncomfortable and it was totally hypocritical of her and she won't do it again. She went on and said I was totally right, if it was reversed (5 men talking about a hot female coworker), each one of them would be freaking out.

Since it happened 3 times months ago, and continued after I sent out my "Gotcha!" text, I'm not going to give D the benefit of the doubt in that she had any intention of apologizing to me. The apology came only after she saw my stunned face and WTF expression.

Ladies, don't you hate it when that happens?

[Gman]

1. Fortunately the 20-something's that don't like gender roles

Are in the very extreme minority in the grand scheme of things. But that doesn't help in your position.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

2. Sure doesn't

I love that 145 women have viewed this thread and nary a one replied!

It just doesn't fit the narrative, does it, ladies. Sorry I had to break the truth to you.

[Gman]

5. DU is a small microcosm echo chamber.

With no relationship to the real world.

[Gormy Cuss]

11. OT, but how did you get the list of viewers of this thread?

I didn't know there was such a function.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

15. There isn't. 145 views does NOT equal 145 women/feminst viewers. =

and, as we all know, #notallwomen are feminists.

[bettyellen]

17. LOL- what truth- that some people at work are assholes?

I hope if they actually did anything that upset you, you'd speak to HR about the hostile environment.

[raccoon]

31. Great post. nt

[sabrina 1]

24. I just saw your thread which is why I didn't respond before. Why is it a problem to call someone

'sweetheart'? See, this is where people roll their eyes, especially Feminists, like me, and most intelligent women. This is what is called 'extremism'. No woman I know, and trust me, most of them are strong, feminists, has ever had a problem with someone saying something intended to be nice, to them.

Taking things to these extremes is, imo, ridiculous.

Just pay women the same salary men are paid for the same job. Then call me sweetheart, sweetie, honey, dear or whatever you want.

THIS has zero to do with equality. I don't know who your 'lecturer' was, but her priorities appear to be a little off.

[alarimer]

26. Because it is fucking belittling.

Not to mention condescending in the extreme. Only a moron refuses to get it.

[sabrina 1]

27. Speak for yourself. Most women have zero problem with someone being kind. Anyone who does,

is simply looking for something to get angry over. But it DOES distract from the REAL PROBLEMS women face in an unequal society, so there is that to consider.

What happened to the ERA? While reams of pixels have been wasted on trivia like this, what has been accomplished for women where it counts?

IRAQ had equal pay for women for crying out loud. THIS country is drowning in trivia, ignoring the real issues, and NOTHING changes.

Thanks for your opinion, you are entitled to it.

I want equal pay for equal work. But let's get side-tracked by someone calling someone 'sweetie', what a NIGHTMARE!

No, a nightmare is not being paid what you are worth because of your gender. And still we cannot seem to get that simple right.

[G_j]

3. so was it swooning,

or was it degrading language? You really were not very clear on what behavior was unacceptable.

[belzabubba333]

6. the difference being?

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

13. I give her 0.00 for effort and creativity

[GeorgeGist]

4. Cool story, Bro.

[belzabubba333]

7. you like stories of sexism?

[Electric Monk]

9. I suspect they were being sarcastic

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/cool-story-bro

[wyldwolf]

10. Keep digging

[L0oniX]

8. *

[bettyellen]

12. What is a "barrage of giddy gah gah" because it's hard to tell WTF was actually said.

Did anyone actually ask you to apologize for the sweetheart? I'd be shocked!
It's gender neutral, and unoffensive to most when used to describe someone as being one - using "sweetheart" instead of their name is what is considered problematic. Were you aware of that?

[The empressof all]

16. Oh Honey...

You know how it is with some people....Things are either black or white unless it's inconvenient. How ya been? I've been working hard myself keeping my gah gahs from giddying away.

[bettyellen]

18. LOL, yes I do. The OP thinks it is a groundbreaking revelation.....

when it is actually a very vague reference to some people who might have been jerky at work. If this is new to the OP it isn;t to most of us here.

I'm good, just organizing my gah gahs as a matter of fact. Planning on taking them to a party soon.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

21. It was my pleasure to bust them. You ladies had to be there ;)

But none of you will ever find yourselves in my coworker's situation, so you can only imagine you'd take the high road.

:bye:

[bettyellen]

22. I am sorry you cannot understand the use of Sweetheart as an appellation, which is

when it IS problematic.
So - no one asked for an apology it seems. You might have misunderstood when it's usage is truly offensive. Sweetheart id gender neutral, a bit overly warm in a work setting, but not sexist. You can come down off that cross anytime now.

Seems your post is deliberately vague about what these women said. Gosh, why could that be?
Women swoon over hot men, yes- but what did they actually say and do? Paragraph after paragraph about the incident and that is missing- very odd!

[kcr]

28. You know those post feminist women and their giddy ga ga

It really doesn't need much more explanation than that. Not to mention their floopidy doop and smackety whack, and what not.

[The empressof all]

23. Perhaps we should call out the Feministy militia...

Whats her name and address. Obviously she needs further indoctrination..


Don't let life's ambiguities bother you so. It can make you an angry and frustrated person.

[PeaceNikki]

14. #NotAllWomen

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

20. So you're the one who interrupts the meeting and says it's inappropriate to talk like this...

in from of him?

Good on ya! When did you do that?

[PeaceNikki]

25. I can't take a Bears fan seriously.

[R B Garr]

41. Da Bears

[Starry Messenger]

29. So, in this office of yours, does anyone have time to squeeze any actual work in?

You'll pardon me if I point out that this sounds like a third-rate sitcom.

[surrealAmerican]

30. Your coworkers are very young ...

... and this has nothing to do with their "generation". It has to do with them not having enough workplace experience to know what is and isn't acceptable in a workplace setting.

The person in charge of them should be having a nice long talk about these incidents with them.

[LWolf]

32. I'm a woman.

I'll reply, since you seem to need it.

I'm sorry that they made you uncomfortable.

I have never been present in that situation, so I can't speak to its prevalence. I've been present, of course, when women talked about physically attractive men. Just not in the way you've presented.


I HAVE been the only female present when the males present, married and single, were going on about a "hot" woman.

I HAVE been present when the woman they were talking about was me, and they didn't give a shit if it bothered me.

[LanternWaste]

33. That's a very creative tale.

That's a very creative tale.

[tammywammy]

34. Of course women can be sexist and oblivious.

At the same time you shouldn't call a woman a sweetheart. Next time just say "everyone knows you're nice".

I don't want anyone calling me a sweetheart, honey, etc at work and thankfully that doesn't happen. At the same time I've been the only woman around a bunch of men talking about the "hot" customer or coworker. It's disgusting too. I wouldn't have participated in the discussion with a bunch of women either.

[badtoworse]

35. Sounds last me a hostile work environment. Go to HR.

[lindysalsagal]

36. Woman, here. Had several mysoginist women bosses.

The men are their favorites.

[loyalsister]

37. How many straight men call other men sweetheart?

I can't imagine the only context would be one where a guy accuses another man of being a "sissy." On the other hand, women use sweetheart, and other terms of endearment with men and women.

I have heard women use it in a condescending way.

If that is your problem, and you feel like your work environment is hostile take whatever action you think is appropriate.

I think that it is possible for women to harass men, abuse men (sexually, physically, mentally, etc.) I think it is also possible that women could practice some form of catcalling that makes men uncomfortable.

But, making this argument without regard for cultural context is intellectually lazy. There has not been a time when women have institutional superiority over men. Nor has there been a time when womens' experiences of sexism were not written off as hysteria or spite by many people.

[nolabear]

38. One difference in the whole thing is that women are punching up.

I don't think women would be nearly as put off by men having appreciative conversations about them there wasn't a history of threat and force. The very "giddy gah-gah" and "swooning" nature of the comments as seen by you is far different from the "I'd like to hit THAT!' nature of most of the male conversations I'm aware of.

Imagine what we might feel like if you guys got together and said "OMG did you see those eyes? And those muscles! She's soooo dreamy!"

[dilby]

39. Man this made my head hurt.

But I get what you are saying, it's just a lot of back story for something that happens. Girls will talk about attractive men just like men will talk about attractive women. It all depends on context and what is being said. If the girls are like, oh the mail delivery guy is so attractive, blah, blah, blah. I don't see a big deal, just like if a guy said it. But it's when they start going into graphic details about physical attributes or what they would like to do then that is overboard and I let people know.

[Rex]

40. Did you think women lacked that particular human capability?

Did you know they fart and belch too? Shocking, but true. If you turn your head really fast, you might catch one scratching her ass. However, I have never seen a women knuckle deep in her nose looking for magic nose goblins. Only guys, what's up with that?

[Eleanors38]

44. But I can do all that simultaneously.

[AverageJoe90]

42. Well, TBH, I wouldn't go as far as "pigs", really....

But yeah, it can happen sometimes. Sorry you had to deal with that, though.

(P.S. apologies for the late reply.)

[True Blue Door]

43. I think you're letting yourself be brainwashed by some demented individuals.

If someone is offended by "sweetheart" as a compliment about their character, then either they don't deserve the compliment or they're a fragile bag of fear who needs all interactions with others carefully sterilized of all personal context.

[bhikkhu]

45. Some valid points, but equal pay for equal work is the more compelling request

Anyone of any sex can have crushes and admire physical qualities and so forth, and people who work together will talk - no big story there. There may be a little hypocrisy, but on the male side objectification of the opposite sex too often comes from a position of authority or assumed superiority. Superiority which can be safely assumed, by evidence of pay-scale and position.