Hm. A lot of people who needed "all the facts" about Wilson are perfectly happy to judge the "riots"

[Recursion]

Rather than, say, waiting for a full investigation of who started the fires, how many buildings were damaged, how much was or wasn't stolen, who in fact was responsible for these acts, etc.

[cwydro]

1. I'll be happy to hear

who burned down these businesses.

This is horrible.

I hope they pay for their crimes.

[Hoyt]

2. +1.

[Scootaloo]

3. Each of the people you are thinking of has a well-established record on DU

Especially with regards to their opinions of issues pertinent to anti-black racism in the US.

[Oktober]

4. I'd be pleased as punch...

... to get all the facts about who initiated the damage which hopefully leads to prosecution.

The difference is that there are no credible reasons that a store or a car should be set on fire so there isn't the two sides of the coin that we saw on the actual shooting.

[el_bryanto]

32. So you hope for prosecution of black people?

Or am I misunderstanding you?

Bryant

[Recursion]

51. Is it black people starting fires?

The only person arrested for arson so far was white.

Beating a horse that was already dead 5 weeks ago about Wilson: we don't know the facts right now.

[Reter]

63. Can't speak for him but I hope for arrest and jail for anyone who riots

Don't care what color they are.

[Oktober]

67. Wow... That is really racist...

[el_bryanto]

68. Well than you should alert on me. nt

[Oktober]

69. I'd rather leave it...

It's just rare to see someone so overt about it...

[el_bryanto]

71. I take it you are a law and order guy? You think the Grand Jury made the right call? nt

[cwydro]

49. Don't try to make sense here.

We're all supposed to think that looting and damaging other peoples property is a great thing to do.

[jeff47]

50. There's no credible reason to throw tea into a harbor either. (nt)

[Recursion]

52. There really wasn't, particularly when Parliament had just lowered the taxes on it

That's the funniest thing to me about the modern Tea Party: the riots then were protests against taxes being lowered because that meant EIC tea could compete with the stuff Hancock was smuggling in.

[ieoeja]

66. You do know that backfired?

The British government ordered the Massachussettes colony to purchase the tea so the British East Indies Tea Company would not take a loss. The colony took them to court and won.

In the meantime some idiots came up with the "brilliant" idea that the colony could not be forced to purchase tea that did not exist. So they destroyed the tea.

When word of that got back to Britain, the exact same judge who ruled that the colony could not be forced to buy the tea next ruled that the colony could be held responsible for the safety of the vessel and its contents while in their harbor.

The purpose of the Tea Party was to save the colony from having to pay for the tea. The result of the Tea Party was forcing the colony to pay for the tea. It had the exact opposite result of what they intended.

[jeff47]

72. Yet it also led towards the revolution.

But those were white people throwing the tea in the harbor, so we revere them. While talking about how terrible those dark-skinned people are for rioting.

[maced666]

5. And a lot of people who needed 'all the facts' about case are now ignoring them.

They lied. They planted evidence...no they destroyed it.
The fix is in, man...

[maced666]

6. Not a big secret who did it. Have video. We all see.

BTW everything was stolen - they are cleaning out the stores fairly good.

[ZombieHorde]

7. In my mind,

the loss of property does not compare to the loss of life. Life > stuff.

[Cha]

8. A-Freakin-Men.

[Niceguy1]

9. burning down a town

Is terrorism,

They arent helping thoer cause

[Recursion]

10. Well, who is "they"? And which cause?

Who's starting the fires? We don't know.

[cwydro]

12. Sadly,

I think we do.

We'll see it soon.

This is wrong. And it's done no one any good.

It is just pure stupid.

[heaven05]

27. and wilson

shooting down this kid with multiple bullets was stupidly racist I would think. You'll be glad to "see" it soon to justify your 'moral outrage', I imagine......

[Niceguy1]

13. keep on wearing

Those rose colored glasses.

[heaven05]

65. Ohhh, you

definitely have your finger on the throat of the problem.....

[heaven05]

25. WRONG!!!!!

wilson, the police chief, the DA, the people on the G J, the governor, they are the terrorists.

[Wella]

11. Speaking of facts, some about the original case are available here:

http://apps.stlpublicradio.org/ferguson-project/evidence.html

[hollysmom]

14. i grade them all by the Newark Riots

destroyed a city for over 50 years now. 1967 - took a world class city and destroyed it. Macy;'s tried to stay but you could not shop there anymore,The parking garages were dangerous, they ha been poorly designed to begin with, the riot fear just made people aware of it. The good stores were spaced apart and Malls were getting enclosed. Families who had lived in apartments for decades all moved out, letting buildings have dangerous vacancies. top schools system lost good teachers and fell into disaster.

So, nope, not as bad.

[Recursion]

15. When I moved to DC in 1997 my neighborhood still had dozens of burned out lots from '68

Unfortunately it's a lot easier to destroy a community than to build one.

[riversedge]

16. This is the scene a good ten minute drive from #Ferguson, at Halls Ferry shopping center

I just saw this tweet of the presumed looting.




Ryan J. Reilly ?@ryanjreilly 13m13 minutes ago

This is the scene a good ten minute drive from #Ferguson, at Halls Ferry shopping center pic.twitter.com/KKGFl7C1N1

[hollysmom]

17. If I were to guess

and not put it into the looting perspective, I would have guessed it was a store going out of business and how they always leave it a mess. They were closing a mall near me and they had crazy sales at the end, but when I walked through the almost storeless mall, I could see things like this.
Gates look like they are still closed.

[riversedge]

18. I suspose anything is possile but.....

Ryan J. Reilly ✔ @ryanjreilly
Follow

Inside the looted Walgreens #ferguson https://vine.co/v/O1wnqrEa53W
2:17 AM - 25 Nov 2014
Vine @vine

[hollysmom]

19. won't load for me - just a round and round symbol

It was just a comment, I was not saying you were lying or anything, it is just how and abandoned store looks. Really, and people can mistake what happened.

[riversedge]

22. Oh, I was not doubting you. sorry. Have a good day and

thanks. I really have not ever seen an abandoned store.



https://vine.co/popular-now

[gollygee]

24. That's a shoe store, not a Walgreens.

Looks like it is in a mall.

[Jamastiene]

20. They are transparent, aren't they? n/t

[UglyGreed]

21. Desperate people take desperate

measures.....it not like these people have not gone through hell in this country for hundreds of years. Old wounds fester creating a great amount of pain.

[bigwillq]

23. I don't care who starts the riots.

It's wrong. Black, white, Asian, gay, straight...you start a riot, I blame you. It doesn't help anyone's cause to riot. violent protesters should be jailed.

[heaven05]

26. yeah, yeah yeah

with your BS rainbow 'outrage'. Wilson should be in jail.

[bigwillq]

29. No doubt.

Wilson should be in jail. Never said he shouldn't.
I just don't believe fighting violence with violence is the answer.

[TBF]

34. How do you "fight" it when

the establishment stonewalls you? Lies to you repeatedly? Has no intention of making good?

As a pacifist I would say this is the only time violence IS necessary.

[Kurska]

37. So how exactly does burning down a little caesars help? n/t

[TBF]

38. You're missing the point -

when people feel like they have nothing to lose your little game is over.

This may not be the tipping point incident but I promise you if it continues with people in this country being completely oppressed (via class, race, gender etc) at some point the pot boils over. Society only works as long as people buy into it. If they feel like it is doing them no good they will rebel and it will collapse.

[Kurska]

40. Again, how does looting and rioting against the wishes of Mike Brown's family help?

You're the one saying violence is necessary. Now you seem to be saying violence is just a tragic result. What is it? Are you advocating for violence still like you did here.

"As a pacifist I would say this is the only time violence IS necessary"

How does the violence last night help anybody? What does it accomplish? Be specific.

[TBF]

41. It's not my fault if you

don't understand what I'm saying. I don't think I can make it any more clear.

[lonestarnot]

43. No you can't make it any more clear. Keep yelling fire. This person will never get it.

[Kurska]

44. Violence is necessary is a strong statement.

There was plenty of violence, tell me how it helped.

[heaven05]

47. and just what has

turning the other cheek for decades accomplished? What has that accomplished!!!!????? What has the violence and state sanctioned executions of minorities who for decades have threatened white privilege and 'superiority accomplished? You 'moral angels' with your faux outrage at 'those terrible people' burning and looting. What a big stinking, reeking load of hypocrisy and BS!!!!

[Kurska]

48. Do you think what happened last night is the path forward?

That is what is going to solve the problem? Do you also believe "Violence is necessary" now?

[heaven05]

55. So what is your solution?

spell it out.

[Kurska]

57. Police body cameras would help.

I don't think there is an easy solution though.

I do know burning down nail salons ain't it.

If there were loud peaceful protests advocating for body cameras, that would have been awesome. Instead we got idiots flipping cars and looting (which regardless of what else may have happened, is what ends up on the tv).

[heaven05]

59. body cameras

won't help Michael Brown or the numerous other blacks males shot and killed in the last three months. Body cameras WILL NOT be established procedure any time in the near or mid term future. Get real, you think state sanctioned executioners want their dirt out there for everyone to see? I don't think so. If by some miracle that camera garbage becomes established procedure, it will be at a time where the authorities have given up pretense and want to cow the public, especially minorities, into further submission to the hypocrisy called amerikkkan democracy and it's protection of privilege for some.....been around too long to fall into your...well let's just say, that "nail salon" better have had insurance as well as the other businesses.

[Kurska]

62. No one is going to listen to people burning down businesses

Destroying their community and robbing people of their livelihood and workers of jobs. The only thing that does is engender sympathy in the average person for the very cops you have such a problem with. Do you really think insurance is some magic bullet to undo the damage of riots? Those payouts increase everyone's rates and makes people not want to build in communities where they could lose everything (or rebuild for that matter). Insurance doesn't make things sprout back up overnight, the jobs linked to destroyed businesses are gone for the foreseeable future.

If your objective is to delegitimize yourself and make your opposition look good, rioting is an excellent strategy, especially if your targets almost exclusively the businesses that keep your community alive.

Hey what do you care, you probably don't even live there.

[noiretextatique]

73. NO ONE IS LISTENING TO THEM PERIOD!

that's why they resort to protesting. and you have no idea who started this shit. it could be the police who started the rioting.

[joeglow3]

56. You get your asses out to the polls

With the shit voter turnout we have, if every minority went to the polls, they would control the government.

[bigwillq]

58. You fight it by getting involved in the process.

Peacefully. Get involved in city, state and federal government, petition your government to pass laws to prevent police violence, get involved personally by becoming a cop, a judge, a lawyer, activist, advocate.

[heaven05]

60. been involved since 1972

and so have millions of others. Not much has changed for the poor, minorities or women. Don't you recognize that FACT. Oh, one ongoing change, gays are able to marry in more places than ever before. But that's the extent of what this system will allow to threaten privilege and the ability to keep a foot on the throats of minorities.

[TBF]

61. I agree that on the individual

level there are things folks can try. Sometimes you can even get a minor victory now and then. But overall you do not effect social change via individual efforts - you achieve them through organization and protest. This has particularly been true with human rights violations in this country. And even when folks succeed by marching it is usually after years have gone by. The status quo will definitely encourage to focus on individual efforts however because it is to their advantage. It is easier to pick us off one by one -

John F. Kennedy
Robert Kennedy
Dr. Martin Luther King
Brother Malcolm X
Medgar Evers

^^ Big names. But there are so many more: http://www.splcenter.org/civil-rights-memorial/civil-rights-martyrs

[heaven05]

64. good one!

[JustAnotherGen]

70. Plus 100000000000

[noiretextatique]

75. don't you think black people have DONE THAT?

and NONE OF THAT prevents cops from shooting us down in the street like animals. and NONE OF it seems to sink into the brains of people like you, who have the audacity to lecture black people.

[bigwillq]

79. I'm wasn't trying to lecture anyone.

That poster asked me a question and I answered it the best I could.
Didn't mean to offend anyone.

[noiretextatique]

80. right

become a doctor, lawyer...whatever.

[heaven05]

42. and I don't

believe in that turning the other cheek BS.

[badtoworse]

28. Are you saying there is such a thing as justifiable looting?

[cwydro]

30. Yeah, looting is fine

Gonna get me a new pair of sneakers next time there's injustice happening near me.

[Recursion]

31. I'm saying I have no evidence it's connected to the protests, anymore than NFL is to blame

for post-game riots.

[badtoworse]

35. Your argument here is making you look pretty foolish.

I'm sure you know what to do when you're in a hole.

[Recursion]

36. No, it's not. I think you're reading it the wrong way.

I'm saying I have no idea who has done what in the streets of Ferguson tonight, and neither do you.

[badtoworse]

39. That's true, but not important.

The fact that some people are rioting and looting is indisputable and cannot be justified. It's disingenuous to suggest that it might be for a reason other than the Brown case.

You're doing a pretty lousy job of making your point, assuming you have one.

[Recursion]

54. I live in a city where people riot at the drop of a hat, so that gives me a different perspective

It also leads me to think that a riot lurks in any large enough group of people, and doesn't need a reason, just an opportunity.

[heaven05]

45. are you saying that the rage and anger

at state sanctioned murder/execution that has been going on for hundreds of years is justified? Are you saying people should just turn the other cheek and get on with their lives? Exactly what are you defending on one hand and outraged about on the other? Are you saying decades of lynchings, castrations, burning while alive and shooting with multiple bullets entering ONE body shouldn't enrage people? Just what are you inferring?

[badtoworse]

46. The Brown family and President Obama made statements about rioting and looting.

They do not believe such a response is justified and neither do I.

[heaven05]

53. fine

and noted for it's complete denial of the reality minority people face everyday. Take your BS and tell it to someone who cares. The Brown family and our POTUS did what was right, politically, no doubt. Officer wilson, the chief of police, the DA, the governor did not do the right thing and have shown no humanity toward Michael Brown, his body riddled with bullets and laying in the street, for hours, and that, mind you, is to continue the decades long terror tactics that has been perpetrated by terrorist under sheets and wearing a badge and uniform against minorities for my lifetime, my parents lifetime, my grand parents lifetime and they all lived pretty long lives. Hope you realize my point. The response by angry people IS understood. Your 'moral angel' outrage is noted and is ................discarded.

[noiretextatique]

76. yes: white katrina survivors FOUND

while black katrina survivors LOOTED. did you see Mr. Scopio's thread about white riots?

[badtoworse]

78. No

[TBF]

33. Funny how that works ... nt

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

74. They didn't have ALL the facts, either. They only had the facts that corroborated Wilson's story.

[noiretextatique]

77. excellent point, Recursion

the "just the facts" crowd are the very ones...in this thread...jumping to conclusions and lecturing black people about how they should protest.