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[Stellar]

1. White folks don't riot I guess....and don't require police when they do, right?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025871595

[Stellar]

7. My answer is MY answer....

like it or not.

[cyberswede]

8. Well...

The testimony also reveals that Wilson did not carry a taser and typically doesn't because "it is not the most comfortable thing." He told the grand jury he was carrying mace, a baton and a flashlight, but chose not to reach for them because he was trying to shield himself from Brown and did not believe non-lethal options would be "effective."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/20/michael-browns-call-for-calm_n_6195526.html

[Recursion]

6. The rioters in Keene got tear gassed, beaten, and shot at with rubber bullets

That happens at NFL/NCAAF riots too.

I'm not sure where the idea that police don't respond to them comes from.

[Stellar]

12. Where were they...the police?

Probably out of the camera shot.

[Recursion]

16. In a big line preparing to crack heads

In the middle picture you can see their roadblock way down the street.

[Recursion]

21. He had two non-lethal weapons on him

He had his mace, and his ASP baton (which, again, is probably the most devastating hand-to-hand weapon there is except possibly the tonfa). He even spent a long time in his testimony attempting to explain why he could draw his pistol but not those two.

[cyberswede]

29. He *chose* not to carry a Taser because it's uncomfortable.

[cyberswede]

3. He shot an unarmed kid in a panic.

At least SIX TIMES.

If he was genuinely in fear for his life because of an "unruly youth" , he's probably in the wrong line of work. He should probably avoid being a school teacher, too.

[cyberswede]

17. Hmm...

I probably wouldn't have hassled him for jaywalking in the first place. If I suspected he were involved in a recent robbery, I would have called for backup.

If confronted, I hope I would use the mace, baton, or flashlight I was carrying rather than shooting him SIX TIMES while his hands were raised.

[Rex]

5. "At the same time, it didn't deserve death."

7 posts...thanks for playing.

[Recursion]

9. Well, no, it's race. Wilson had two non-lethal alternatives with him

He had his ASP baton (an absolutely devastating hand-to-hand weapon) and his mace.

[Rex]

23. You can kill a person with an ASP.

Look it up, they are non-lethal but only if used that way.

[Rex]

45. The cop was not anywhere near smaller than Brown. Both are around the 6' 4"

area and if you look at pictures of Wilson, you can see he is not fat or out of shape at all. Both are over 200 pounds, so no Wilson could have easily manhandled Brown if he had wanted to.

[cyberswede]

25. Wilson is 6'4" 210

There are plenty of police officers smaller than that who subdue suspects larger than they are every day.

[cyberswede]

35. Maybe he should have carried his fucking "uncomfortable" Taser. nt

[gollygee]

27. Why do you think he was stronger?

They were the same height, and Wilson appeared to be in much better shape. Excess weight doesn't make you stronger. It makes you slower.

[LeftyMom]

33. No, that's the whole reason those things exist.

A baton multiplies force, it's a simple machine. It also increases your reach. If you're trained to use one you can incapacitate anyone.

Mace/pepper spray will screw up anyone with mucus membranes.

That's the reason they exist: so you don't have to risk yourself wrestling a potentially larger or stronger person.

[Recursion]

48. Reach, force in striking, and leverage in grappling

They really are very good weapons

[Recursion]

43. With an ASP or tonfa? Hells to the yes, I could disengage from any unarmed person with that

I mean, maybe not 9th-degree blackbelt Vladimir Putin, but an overweight* 18-year-old kid who doesn't have a height or reach advantage on me?

That's the mentality you're supposed to have as a cop, anyways: you are in control, you are responsible for maintaining control, you have to protect the people around you even from the consequences of their own violence (that's sort of a mantra of Aikido, which many police departments study a form of).

* not trying being an ass, just seems to be a fact

[Rex]

22. I didn't know he had an ASP with him. Knew about the mace.

I'm shocked he didn't use it instead. In case people are wondering, it is a telescoping steel rod basically used as an impact weapon.

[Recursion]

28. It's in his testimony. Mace was on his left hip, ASP was under his fat ass

(Good call on the "for those who don't know" info)

His claim is he couldn't get up because of the "severe beating" he was receiving, and he couldn't reach across to get the mace because he was twisting to the left to push Brown back. And he didn't want to leave his face exposed with his left hand to reach down with it.

That really is where his story falls apart, for me. He's still in the car, he's taken a glancing blow or two to the face (I do in fact believe that). De-escalation says you drive forward (and, yes, if you end up dragging Brown with you for a while, that's what's going to happen) until you are disengaged and can fully deploy all of your available alternatives.

He's literally saying he shot Brown because of where his gun, ASP, and mace happened to be holstered.

[Rex]

41. You bring up something I've always wondered about, sure your hands are not free

but your feet are totally free to punch the accelerator. Another non-lethal tool at his disposal that he did not use. I don't know who started the fight in the car, but I have to believe it since they found blood splatters inside the car (drivers side, backseat drivers side) from what I can only surmise from Brown being shot in the hand.

Still, so easy just to punch the accelerator and call for back up imo.

[Recursion]

46. Yup. At least in the Marines we learned "your vehicle is also a weapon and a shield"

Close quarters encounters are won by controlling distance, and a vehicle gives you a nearly blank check in that regard.

Great point about the feet being free.

[spanone]

10. equipment problem? bwahahahahahahahahaaaaaa pretty fucking funny.

[NYC Liberal]

11. It absolutely is an issue of race.

[alcibiades_mystery]

15. Oh for fucks sake

What is with this ludicrous and stupid obsession with denying that things have anything to do with race. This isn't about race?!? Are you even fucking serious? This incident is not about race?

Goddammit, I give up. I mean, honestly? What the fuck is in your head?

[cyberswede]

26. How about a big white teenager?

Why would the white guy need to be a Hell's Angel in order to be as scary as a black teenager?

[cyberswede]

42. Why would "social standing" make a teenager more dangerous?

Be specific.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

32. You just equated an 18 year old kid with a notorious...

..... drug trafficking, meth producing, murder for hire, white slavery, criminal gang member.

Think about that for a minute.

[gollygee]

36. [phone]

[tkmorris]

40. Wasps, my guess

[Spazito]

19. Geez....just geez n/t

[gollygee]

20. Why are so many people coming to DU to explain how this isn't about race?

Oh wait, see my signature.

[U4ikLefty]

34. What caused you to join DU a week ago?

I'm curious.

[WillyT]

37. You're New Here... Welcome... It's Race... Live And learn...

[LeftyMom]

39. Explain Oscar Grant. nt

[Luminous Animal]

44. Poow wittle powice officew.

[gollygee]

47. Poor wittle 6'4" 210 lb police officer.

This thread is a joke.