WOW!!! Just Wow!!! I dont believe some of the posters here!!

[Howler]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by uppityperson (a host of the General Discussion forum).

I am so disappointed in the so called liberals who are bashing the protesters for their strategy of blocking traffic and highways. Must be nice to sit in a warm and comfortable house behind a keyboard and criticize the supposed "stupidity" of protestors actually out there trying to instigate change for a safer America where unarmed black youths aren't executed by police officers for walking while black!
Have these judgmental assholes and critics forgotten civil rights history so completely that They don't remember Mario Salvios Speech on the Berkley Campus in 1964?
Heres just a taste of what he said in the entro To the song Wretches and kings By Linkin park!

SHUT IT DOWN!!!!!!
Full speech here!

[bigdarryl]

1. There not liberals

They are trolls

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

3. Does seem to be lots of right leaning folk here

[L0oniX]

118. That's what centrist turd way is.

[rock]

8. Agreed

DU has a large percentage of disrupters.

[liberalmike27]

108. Not Sure They are Disruptors.

I've found, in talking about the protests, the fact Wilson was not indicted, that of my group of very liberal Facebook friends, there are quite a few of them that are defending Wilson, that are saying the same things about the protests being negative.

Protesting has rather been demonized in the media now for decades, and in truth it's never been something the rich, and their media have been fans of--people are sadly, for the most part lemmings. A lot of them, even people who are liberal, are just following networks on this.

From what I can see, if you get MSNBC, pushing for anything, from demoting Weiner, to rushing into war in Iraq in 2003, left-wing lemmings jump onto it as if they were watching FOX.

I said if rioting happens, it'd make everyone's levels of racism increase--an I'm seeing that happen.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

59. Some are Clintonista and actually believe liberals are a danger to the Democratic Party....

You know,....because we're all a bunch of COMMIES!!!

[murielm99]

127. What is Clintonista?

We had a very popular two-term President named Clinton. He's still popular. His wife has been a Senator and Secretary of State. They are both Democrats. Remember?

I am a liberal Democrat who finds your terminology offensive.

[bettyellen]

140. sure.... go and try splitting the party, LOL.

When Clenis wears thin, or Obama's fault is too obvious, the Clintonista appellation will do, I guess.

[jtuck004]

159. +1000 n/t

[oberliner]

83. But they do know the difference between they're and there

So that's something at least.

[99Forever]

129. Good to see the Grammar Cop is here to protect us.

[noiretextatique]

111. +1000

[NutmegYankee]

122. Liberals can believe that such a strategy is a FAIL.

It just turn people against us. Traffic just enrages people.

[valerief]

175. ^^^THIS^^^

[jberryhill]

2. "strategy of blocking traffic and highways"

Beyond your apparent misunderstanding of the words "tactic" and "strategy", I fail to see how "blocking traffic" is meaningfully related to the strategic goal in any productive way.

Chris Christie's camp apparently had the same understanding of the relationship between blocking traffic and a political goal of some kind.

People in "warm comfortable homes" are not concerned about traffic, being as they are in a "warm comfortable home".

People in homes warmer than that, such as in homes on fire, do tend to be concerned about whether fire and rescue vehicles can arrive; as are those obviously ignorant and uncaring people who think they have some God-given expectation that an ambulance may arrive and timely transport them to an emergency room.

[COLGATE4]

5. Well said! nt

[Howler]

13. Bet me

That the protesters would let emergency vehicles pass. But you can feel free to keep convoluting and distracting from the subject like a good little brick in the wall. ROFL!!!

[jberryhill]

37. Yes, the wise protesters see the gridlocked ambulance five blocks away around a corner

[heaven05]

47. you are of course correct

on the convoluted BS, the willful distraction and may I add obfuscation. I mean this word has gotten quite a workout with people like you're responding to in the last week or so. Man! So many intent on encouraging the shooting of a running away unarmed black male. Truly disheartening to me. I don't want to call myself liberal, progressive or even a democrat if people like the wilsonthepig lovers are accepted as such. I'll just be a compassionate, empathetic potential victim of the same kind of execution.

[sabrina 1]

20. It's called 'civil disobedience'. What do you suggest people do in order to end the killing of

civilians by the so-called 'civilian police'??

Unless you're content with the way things are in this dysfunctional country, what strategy do YOU think will work, considering it's been decades of NOT blocking traffic?

How about our Elected Reps do something, how about they LISTEN to the people instead of attending DC Cocktail parties with their Wall St funders?

But they are doing something, excuse me I forgot, they are sending out the NG and their Robo Cops to trash the people.

So, the people have had it. Finally.

[rhett o rick]

55. I support civil disobedience but it should be aimed at those that are the problem.

Burning down small businesses isn't helpful. Stopping traffic may get the apathetic to pay attention but most likely turn them against the cause. Civil disobedience should be directed toward the Oligarchs. Also, I am anti-violence because I believe it's anti-productive.

[starroute]

71. Sometimes there is no direct target to aim for

The best kind of civil disobedience is doing what they try to tell you not to do -- like the lunch counter sit-ins of the 1960s. But how do you "disobey" police brutality? How do you "disobey" dark money in elections?

Sometimes all you can do is what Mario Savio called for 50 years ago next week and throw your bodies onto the gears to bring the machine to a stop.

[Beaverhausen]

136. No direct target?

Well it certainly isn't innocent business owners who had nothing to do with the shooting of Michael Brown.

[rhett o rick]

148. Occupy Walmart instead of burning down the locally owned stores. I don't condone violence. nm

[duhneece]

119. I agree and yet I see that 'the problem' could include a public undisturbed by what's been happening

I agree and yet I see 'those that are the problem' include a public whose consciousness needs to be raised until the killing of those with no power and all who care for them finally get action to end that unjustified pain, unbearable grief.

I agree and yet I think that until the violence that comes from the top (most powerful) ends, the violence that comes from the bottom (least powerful) will continue, although I disagree with violence in any manner.

[rhett o rick]

150. Occupy the banks instead of blocking traffic. There is more than one way to get the

public's attention besides pissing them off. Boycott those that are sending jobs overseas.

[NutmegYankee]

109. Civil disobedience should be used against the powers that be.

Not against innocent people just trying to get home and such. All that does is turn people against the movement that blocked traffic.

[still_one]

27. In my view what it has the tendency to do is antagonize some people who could be sympathetic to

their cause.

People have appointments, work, and of course emergency vehicles may need to get through.

I am very skeptical that tactic furthers their cause. It does give them publicity, but most likely that publicity would not be presented in a favorable light.

[Howler]

61. Really.

Has ANY of the mainstream publicity since the announcement of Wilson not being indicted for the murder of Michael Brown been favorable to Michael, or The protesters? must be nice to be able to go about your daily 9 to 5 business because Trayvon Martin,John Crawford,and Michael Brown cant. You mean the same business that keeps the machine running? the same machine that perpetuates and supports these murders? Oh Wow! Wait! another 12 year old just shot down in Cleveland. Do you think Any of that is worth a little delay in your busy day? And please tell me where, when an emergency vehicle was blocked by protesters!!! or is this just another excuse to continue business has usual/

[SidDithers]

43. ...

Sid

[Spitfire of ATJ]

65. Seriously? Blocking traffic fits perfectly in the Brown case considering it STARTED from jaywalking.

[Travis_0004]

137. And so does the looting.

[SunDrop23]

73. Exactly! (nfm)

[zeemike]

76. Quite a difference there.

Between Christie blocking traffic for political gain and protesters doing it for justice to be done don't you think?
Christie sought to manipulate the system for power, and the protesters to stop the system from denying justice.

But he who would give up justice for a little fire protection deserve neither.

[jberryhill]

151. A difference of opinions, certainly

But a difference in the self-perception of the rightness of one's cause? No.

[Skeeter Barnes]

160. And he knows that. He just doesn't care.

Civil disobedience or work stoppages are all the power working class people have left. On the rare occasion that power is exercised, the right of center Third Way contingent sticks up for the abusive authority figures. It's the same whenever there is a strike. They side with the powerful and say the workers should just go back to work and be thankful they have a job.

Comparing people who have no power to a powerful politician like Chris Christie is just plain dishonest but they will say anything to defend the corporate state because they like things the way they are.

[cwydro]

82. good post. nt

[BrotherIvan]

155. Curious that you and the other hall monitors are using so much energy to condemn protests

Demanding orderly, compliant good boys and girls. And no condemnation for the miscarriage of justice on an epic scale that just occurred? These corrupt politicians wouldn't even let the public have a trial. And you're more angry about people blocking traffic?

[RiverLover]

169. Did you hear about the unarmed black kid who was shot & killed by police in Asheville NC last year?

Right.

No one protested.

But at least everyone got to work on time!! (whew!!)

http://archive.citizen-times.com/interactive/article/20131110/NEWS/311100088/Answers-still-few-police-shooting-Asheville-teen

[jtuck004]

179. What ambulance? The racist bastards there just shoot black folk and leave them in the street.

...
"...Just as the slavemaster of that day used Tom, the house Negro, to keep the field Negroes in check, the same old slavemaster today has Negroes who are nothing but modern Uncle Toms, 20th century Uncle Toms, to keep you and me in check, keep us under control, keep us passive and peaceful and nonviolent. That's Tom making you nonviolent. It's like when you go to the dentist, and the man's going to take your tooth. You're going to fight him when he starts pulling. So he squirts some stuff in your jaw called novocaine, to make you think they're not doing anything to you. So you sit there and 'cause you've got all of that novocaine in your jaw, you suffer peacefully. Blood running all down your jaw, and you don't know what's happening. 'Cause someone has taught you to suffer -- peacefully."

"We sick"? Yes, "we sick". Because, sadly, there are still a lot of house Negroes running around today."
...

http://field-negro.blogspot.com/2012/05/its-21st-century-but-house-negro-is.htmlHere.

I don't have problem one with it. I think those with a grievance should turn it into a learning opportunity, teach each other how to be more like the Democrats who are making banksters richer than they ever have been, and start buying strategic pieces of Ferguson, and while doing it make life a living hell for all the ass clowns who let the racists get away with their evil, and in so doing make themselves indistinguishable from each other.

They can clear a path for an ambulance, depending on where it is going. Let others find out what it is like to be unfairly denied assistance. Might be a refreshing change to have white folk telling their kids that they might be killed for the color of their skin, and there isn't jack shit they can do about it except spend the rest of their life looking over their shoulder.

How the hell anyone can get ahead while constantly having to look behind them is beyond me. It's time to make things less comfortable and safe for everyone else.

[liberal N proud]

4. When did liberal become synonyms with hating cops?

[BrotherIvan]

11. When cops are deemed above the law

War criminals, bankers, corporations, cops, seeing a trend here?

[Howler]

16. EXACTLY!!!

[still_one]

32. Are we talking about "all cops", "some cops", "most cops"?

[avebury]

58. Most cops.

Because when the majority of the cops refuse to step up and deal with the bad cops then they become part of the problem and accessories after the fact to the illegal activity committed by the bad cops. As long as cops across the country continue to execute members of the public without consequence, commit perjury without consequence, beat up citizens without cause, manufacture false cases to in order to hide their misdeeds - people are not going to trust them.

[socialist_n_TN]

89. BINGO!!!!!!! We have a winner......

[Mbrow]

107. Perfect

We have a retired ISP inspector here in Idaho who wrote a book "Better an Honest Scoundrel" and he talks about just that. He said there are about 10% who truly buy into the premise that protect and serve MEANS Protect and Serve even if it includes your own people. the rest are time clock punchers and bad eggs. The last time i talked to him he was pretty pissed off with the new generation of police in general.

[Howler]

14. When did being a cop

Become a license to shoot and beat unarmed people and pets?

[liberal N proud]

19. So violeńce begets more violence?

Sounds a little like pro war - civil war.


I am the type of liberal who is against all violence and don't see how burning others businesses is justified.

[heaven05]

51. sound like guiliani

the 9/11 'hero'.

[Howler]

63. Peaceful blocking of traffic

is non violent last time I looked.

[BrotherIvan]

80. Hey, they're going to make me late!

Who cares what they think! I would have been their ally, but I missed the Breaking Bad rerun so screw them and their causes!!!

[Howler]

88. Sarcasm is good.

That's about it though isn't it?

[Beaverhausen]

131. Some people might be on their Way to work

And not have a sympathetic employer

Seriously I don't understand how you can't understand that blocking traffic does not help the cause.

[Quantess]

181. I know that that alone caused more than a few people

to not support Occupy.

[NBachers]

146. "I got kids at the day care, and it's going to cost more to pick them up"

"I've got materials to drop off, and my semi is sitting here idling in stopped traffic"
"I've got kids at home, and they're waiting for dinner, or bedtime, or school"
"I've got classes, and I'm going to miss a test today"
"I've got just enough gas to get home and I'm going to run out if I can't get moving""
"I've got a job interview that I'm going to miss"
"I've got groceries, and the frozen stuff's melting"
"I've got a doctor's appointment, and I'm going to miss it and pay for it anyway"
"I'm going to have a baby, and I've got to get to the hospital"
"I had a long, difficult day working for an abusive, fucked-up boss, and I just want to get home"
"I'm on the way to work for an abusive, fucked-up boss, and this is going to get me fired"
"I've got a court date, and my bail's going to be revoked"
"I came up over the hill and there was traffic stopped on the freeway and I was injured in an accident"
"I was stopped in traffic, and someone just ran into me."
"We've got to get this injured person to the hospital or they'll die"
"I'm a bus driver with a bus full of working-class people and I can't get through. More people are waiting at stops down the line"
"I need to get home and take my medication"
"My beater car will stop running if I can't keep it moving; I can't afford a better one"
"My enraged husband came home and started beating me"
"All this idling traffic is wasting gas and polluting the air"
"What kind of fucked-up shit are those shitheads pulling now?"
"I'm trying to get to the demonstration, and those demonstrators are blocking my way"

And on and on and on through every single person's private battle through a difficult life in the real fucking world.

Every single DU'er has been in several of these situations.

Multiply it by thousands and thousands. How many of these people are going to be brutalized into agreeing with the protesters?

Courtesy of NBachers, the third-way right-wing Clintonista killer-cop-loving obfuscating basement keyboard commando. Call me a troll and revoke my Leftist card.

[heaven05]

168. "the real fucking world" is

a dead body laying in the street, blood streaming into the gutter for 5 fucking hours times 1000's from the beginning of this countey found on genocide and built up in the south by slave labor, the north by racist labor and the west by a genocidal policy carried out by it's agents of force.How many have already, before the inconvenience of these all these drivers, black, white and other ect? Maybe you have that revocation thing backwards?

[GGJohn]

184. And those people on the blocked Freeway's have absolutely fucking nothing to do with the murder of

Michael Brown.

[GliderGuider]

134. The question "Is that justified?" is loaded with all sorts of assumptions.

Justified to whom? Under what conditions? It all depends on who is doing the judging.

Whether or not the form the protests take is "justified" is pretty immaterial IMO. They are natural, spontaneous expressions of longstanding anger and frustration. They have been part of the human landscape ever since there has been power and oppression.

Talking about justification serves little purpose beyond appeasing one's conscience and boosting one's self-image. Both of which are irrelevant out there in the real world.

Social diseases like this are much like physical illnesses. One gets much further by dealing with the causes than by complaining about the effects.

[AgingAmerican]

91. Eons ago

unfortunately.

[GliderGuider]

21. When the police became the obvious tools of the 1% nt

[sabrina 1]

28. When did liberals decide that cops killing unarmed civilians and getting away with it, is not a

social justice issue that needs to be seriously addressed?

[liberal N proud]

49. Its the violence that I do not support

Violence is not a liberal value, never was never will be. And using coercion to try and convince other wise is not liberal either.

When did destruction of property become acceptable? If you burn down a building, loot a store because someone else did not get justice, you are a criminal.

If being a member of DU means that I have to support violence, then there is no longer room here for me.

[socialist_n_TN]

95. Not a believer in self defense then?......

That's OK, although I don't know how else you can stop the fascists taking over here. But being a pacifist is cool. It just seems like most of us aren't pacifists.

[Rhinodawg]

42. Sheeesh

where have you been?

[Hissyspit]

75. LOL

[csziggy]

50. Maybe somewhere around the 1968 Democratic Convention?

With the Chicago Police Riot?

The Chicago police riot

August 28, 1968 came to be known as the day a "police riot" took place. The title of "police riot" came out of the Walker Report, which amassed a great deal of information and eyewitness accounts to determine what happened in Chicago.[20] At approximately 3:30 pm, a young boy lowered the American flag at a legal rally taking place at Grant Park. The demonstration was made up of 10,000 protesters.[10] The police broke through the crowd and began beating the boy, while the crowd pelted the police with food, rocks, and chunks of concrete.[23] Police fought with the protesters and vice versa. The chants of the protesters shifted from "Hell no, we won't go" to "Pigs are whores."[24] Tom Hayden, one of the leaders of Students for a Democratic Society, encouraged protesters to move out of the park to ensure that if they were to be tear gassed, the whole city would be tear gassed, and made sure that if blood were spilled in Chicago it would happen throughout the city.[25] The amount of tear gas used to suppress the protesters was so great that it eventually made its way to the Hilton Hotel, where it disturbed Hubert Humphrey while in his shower.[24] The police were taunted by the protesters with chants of "Kill, kill, kill." They sprayed demonstrators and bystanders indiscriminately with Mace.[26] The police assault in front of the Hilton Hotel the evening of August 28 became the most famous image of the Chicago demonstrations of 1968. The entire event took place live under the T.V. lights for seventeen minutes with the crowd shouting, "The whole world is watching."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Democratic_National_Convention#The_Chicago_police_riot

http://www.history.com/topics/1960s/videos/violence-batters-1968-democratic-convention

[kelliekat44]

56. When cops began hating liberals. Ask Occupy about it. nt

[Spitfire of ATJ]

69. It didn't. It's synonymous with "Question Authority"....

That and Human Rights are more important than Property Rights.

[L0oniX]

116. eh ...its just another Con talking point

[Zorra]

6. There are more than a few wolves in liberals' clothing here. nt

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

15. You got that right

[RiverLover]

7. Not liberals!!

If they claim they are, they're outed rethugs saying that. Posers.

[BrotherIvan]

9. They like to punch to the left

A lot of law and order types around here. Methinks they are on a Democratic forum because of self-concern, not because they want a better society for anybody else. Apparently there are tons of stupid, selfish assholes here too.

[DesertFlower]

10. i believe in protesting, but blocking traffic is wrong.

people need to get home to their children, or to their jobs, etc. emergency vehicles need to get through.

flame away.

[TBF]

17. At least you still have children to get

home to. Do you know where the Brown's child is?

[Howler]

30. Yes!

[TBF]

36. I can't believe these folks

seriously. One on my facebook page was worried about the St. Louis parade being postponed. The parade - that is what she cared about. Smh.

[sabrina 1]

34. Not to mention all the other children who were killed by cops SINCE the Brown family

lost their child.

[TBF]

40. Good point - like the 12 yo in cleveland.

12 yo and gunned down.

[Oktober]

166. It won't do one thing to make it better...

... And could likely make it worse by making more enemies.

Its a bunch of feel good look at me fluff...

[Howler]

24. Ummm

The whole action of blocking traffic is to stop business as usual. As Mario Savio so succinctly put it in above posted video. And please tell what emergency vehicle where and when was blocked! Or is this just a theoretical Emergency vehicle? One that's invisible so the protesters cant move aside for it! Jeeze people! Really?

[Beaverhausen]

120. Remember when Chris Christie closed lanes on the bridge

And a woman died because an ambulance didn't get to her soon enough?

I'm sorry but I don't think blocking traffic is a good idea either.

Pissing people off who are probably sympathetic to the cause? What's the point of that?

[treestar]

176. Agreed, making fun of the ambulance as hypothetical

reveals that it is a realistic hypothetical.

[RiverLover]

29. They will live, unlike black Americans if they scare a cop.

That's the point. And unfortunately, just standing around with a poster sign doesn't get attention.

Would you rather they just set stuff on fire? If I were black in this country, I don't even want to think about how I'd react to the injustice. Put yourself in their shoes & give them the short time they want to protest this peacefully.

And do not call yourself a liberal. Please. You make us look bad.

[Howler]

66. Exactly!!!

100 %

[savalez]

104. Standing around with a poster gets plenty of attention...

if you're a dumb ass tea bagger.

[RiverLover]

157. And then own all the news stations to make sure it's covered on the news. ~nt

[Doctor_J]

12. I don't believe all the liberal bashing here

Actually I do.

[Cooley Hurd]

46. Hippie punching is the new norm for what USED to be OUR Democratic Party.

I made my bones in the Democratic Party back in '72, a seven-year-old stuffing envelopes for McGovern.

The party today is just sad, and not reflective of what we were.

[TheKentuckian]

18. Seems like the status quo caucus, corporate enabling, surveillance state backing usual suspects

to me.

They aren't liberals, some are playing heavily partisan Democrats as long as the party matches their bent but they will go back to the thugs if it doesn't no matter how embarrassing they find the mouth breathing Teabaggers if orthodoxy is actually challenged.

They are still essentially Reaganites so as long as Democrats are in that wheelhouse they can play along, anything that gets them off their spot will show their true colors as you see.

[Rex]

57. You can always tell who they are by bring up authoritarians.

The usual suspects see the word, get all pissed off then project in a few threads with their fellow socks/usernames. Funny to watch but sad as well. Almost as sad as Pavlov's Puppy, well sadder in a way - because they are humans and should have a brain and some morals.

[Howler]

68. Yep!

[Rhinodawg]

22. Makes me sick.

[U4ikLefty]

105. I'm sure it is ISIS that is blocking traffic

those damn anit-semites!!11!!1

[DesertDiamond]

23. +1,000,000

[former9thward]

25. The Free Speech Movement is not a good example for you.

The FSM was about civil liberties on campus. When Savio gave his speech about shutting down the 'machine' he was talking about the system which limited civil liberties and academic freedom. Stopping ordinary people going to and from work or elsewhere does not stop any 'machine'.

Things that grew out of the FSM included blocking railroad tracks of troop trains taking troops to Oakland to be shipped out to Vietnam. That is an example of stopping the machine, however temporary.

Blocking freeways does nothing but marginalize your cause.

[Howler]

48. I strongly Disagree former9thward

Its is stopping the flow of business has usual while calling attention and focus to the issue of government sanctioned police murder and brutality. It also brings people that have been untouched by the Michael Brown murder and are to busy with their daily lives to pay attention a chance to wake the fuck up!
I also disagree with your assessment of This speech by Mario Savio not being relevant in this instance there is more then one machine! Not to mention that the cops in Ferguson have tried to deny people the right to protest and peaceably assemble. Plus not being shot down walking while black seems to me is a pretty big civil rights issue too. At least it seems like it to me.

[heaven05]

62. praytell inform me

as to what type of peaceful protest creates enough blockage to make people at least think about why they are sitting in a traffic jam caused by peaceful protestors. If they do not think of why they are sitting there and just get enraged at the 'inconvenience' then they have marginalized themselves from some in the human race that care about the murder of unarmed kids, usually black.

[former9thward]

77. I gave an example in my post that blocked the 'machine'.

Which got publicity and allowed people to think about the issue. If the issue is police murdering unarmed kids then block the police station. Go to the heart of the matter.

[heaven05]

85. IF???!!!!

and they did and were attacked for doing it because they would not move when told to do so. I wish I had a buzzer so I could scream in your ear: WRONG!!!!!!!!!

[Howler]

78. Exactly!!

Thank you Heaven05!!!

[Kali]

26. since we are such a car culture

it is a pretty effective way to get regular people's attention. I can't think of much of a better way other than shutting down teevee or the cell phones.

still I can see that there are valid arguments for not doing it so I don't blame every person who might object - although there are obviously right leaning law and order types here for sure. also old people who tend to be a tad "conservative" about all sorts of things even though their politics and hearts may be in the right place.

[randome]

39. Getting people's attention is not nearly enough.

Sort of like "changing the conversation" resulted in Occupy conquering the world. Oh, wait, that never happened.

What any protest movement needs is leaders. Without that, there will simply be random acts of anger that are too easily overlooked. The 'conversation' never happens.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.[/center][/font][hr]

[Howler]

52. Such a diplomat Kali.

The world needs its peace keepers too.

[Kali]

54. well, there are plenty of out right trolls popping up constantly too

[treestar]

173. It will get their attention

but can anyone say they've gotten a convert to the cause that way?

Ironically, I remember when right wing Christians did this in Hollywood, over some movie they didn't like in how it portrayed Jesus.

That would have to be OK too then.

[INdemo]

31. If you think its bad now ....wait till January

right leaning folks and right wingers will be trolling here to turn the knife.They think they now "rule" the universe with the Koch Bros agenda at hand. But they will fall flat in time.

[Quantess]

33. How long are these protests going to continue?

It's been 3 days now.

[TBF]

41. Gee. I hope you haven't been inconvenienced.

[bravenak]

44. Well we HAVE been dealing with racism for 400 years, so....

How ever long they last. There will be more and more protests over the years until out racists institutions stop being racist institutions. I suppose the people who are tired of protests and stuff should help end the racism sooner so it doesn't INCONVENIENCE them so much it has to be much worse to hear about racism and to see protests than to actually experience racism day in day out, year after year, in a never ending cycle.

[noiretextatique]

60. +1000

[JimDandy]

79. Exactly! n/t

[sabrina 1]

45. Hopefully for as long as it takes to get the attention of those who appear to be deaf to the

injustices that exist in this country. Deaf or Complicit, as in the case of Gov. Nixon and a whole host of other elected officials who think that seending out the military to quash peaceful protesters represents Democracy.

[Starry Messenger]

53. Sorry you're bored.

[heaven05]

64. Ohh yeah

we got to get back to "business as usual". This concern over murdering kids, especially black kids has gone on toooooo long... You've been consistent all through this I'll give you that.....

[Howler]

74. How long will These black youths

That were executed by police be dead? Really ???

[Alittleliberal]

99. I think this is the problem

We measure protests by how long they last not by what they accomplish.

[L0oniX]

124. How dare they go past your limit of 3 days! n/t

[Comrade Grumpy]

142. Three days? I'm sure your time on the cross is almost over.

[Scootaloo]

35. Well, remember, Michael Brown was black

And you'll find that even on DU, a black life doesn't count for much, and protests about that life being stolen are held in even less regard.

[Tsiyu]

38. Tell 'em, Sistah

[Howler]

81. :)

[Rex]

67. K&R

[RandySF]

72. Blocking highways is a bad idea.

It doesn't take into account that there are drivers who may have a legitimate reason go get where they need to go ASAP. It's just not smart.

[Howler]

86. Well Obviously

I disagree find an alternate route or better yet join in or support the protest against murdering unarmed black youths!

[NutmegYankee]

101. Stopping up major highways just pisses people off.

People want to get to their family, not get stuck in traffic. Seriously, do you actually think anyone stuck in traffic is going to like you afterwards? Talk about alienating natural allies.

[Howler]

110. Hmmm then you have to ask yourself

which is more important Getting home to your family or having a family to go home too NutmegYankee. because that's the reality of being an African American male in America today! they don't necessarily make it HOME!!! The safety you take for granted isn't uniformly distributed.

[NutmegYankee]

113. And how is stopping people in traffic making your family safer?

It justs increases anger and destroys sympathy for the cause.

I make a 10 hour drive for Thanksgiving down the I95 corridor. After a few hours of traffic in a stick shift with my knee and leg throbbing in agony, I'm going to be sympathetic to no movement that blocks the highway.

[treestar]

177. that is what you are expecting to happen?

has it ever happened?

[cwydro]

84. It's a discussion board.

Not an echo chamber.

[cstanleytech]

87. This is the Democratic Underground not the Liberals Only Underground. nt

[Howler]

93. Wow. Your right cstanleytech.

This is a post about humanity what is it doing on a political discussion board! Sheesh!

[TBF]

97. Be glad they're not burning down your bank. nt

[MattSh]

114. Why?

You think your money is actually stored there? You don't think they have multiple off-site back up records?

[TBF]

125. And that's the thing.

Folks who are oppressed in this country are too frightened to protest beyond their own neighborhoods because they know how quickly the boot will come down if they do.

Do you think they'd dare protest in front of the Ritz Carlton in downtown St. Louis for example? Or at AT&T Central?


Even the way folks protest here shows you how fascist we've already become. They wouldn't dare.

So, Mr. Kiev, you can go back to installing your Nazi government. And yes we do see exactly what is happening in Ukraine. At least some of us do.

[Welibs]

90. I couldn't agree more! I've been wondering when Americans became so callous to genocide!

The 1st black President of the United States is presiding over the genocide of black Americans!

WEAPONS OF WAR are pointed at Americans on American soil!

It's bullshit no matter how you slice it!

[AgingAmerican]

92. Obama is presiding over genocide?

I don't think so...

[Howler]

96. Absolutely Welibs.

100%

[Cryptoad]

94. Seems you are confusing ,,,,

Liberalism with Anarchy .

[Howler]

98. Really.

Since when is peaceful protest designated has Anarchy?? While some would like to remove the right to assemble it hasn't happened yet.

[Cryptoad]

115. Time would have been better spent

in the voting booth! People refuse to vote then rant about the way the society they refuse to partake in treats them.

[Howler]

135. Really Because it seemed to me

That with all the gerrymandering Minority precincts along with the Voter purges in heavily minority counties, And the new voter I.D. laws pretty much inhibits any real voice in the political machine to be heard at all. OOOO! And lets not forget voter intimidation.

[TBF]

102. OK, so anarchy is wanting black folks

to have a fair shake and not be gunned down indiscriminately in the streets? Well, I'm sure worse things have been said about us but I think you've skewed the definition a bit.

[cstanleytech]

133. Nope, anarchy is looting and burning down varies businesses in the area for no legitimate reason.

And that is not going things better for the people rather its going it worse because some of those business will close for good causing people in the area to lose their jobs and thats just going to make things even worse.
Wanting a fair shake and all the rest you mentioned can be accomplished without looting and burning, it takes work and it will take time but if the people get truly involved and start stepping up and do things like vote and run for office they can make a difference.

[TBF]

141. Please describe the "work" it will take to

fight systemic oppression without massive protesting and marches. And please give examples if you can.

Voting isn't going to cut it - we've been cut off at the knees there with gerrymandering and lobbyists PAC contributions controlling our government.

Got anything else?


It's been 50 years since this day & now she's not walking with protection. She's dead in the street. Tell me again how much time it takes?

[cstanleytech]

147. Work such as running for the school board positions and all the other offices

involved in running the city and part of running the city is the police and the courts.
So if they really want change then they need to start doing it rather than demanding it as no ones going to do the job for them.

[charin]

100. Sheesh!

Response to systemic murder by state actors results in *gasp* a traffic jam!

[Howler]

103. BWAWAHAHAHA!!!

right on Charin! ROFL!!

[Rex]

112. How dare you! Some people might not make it home in time to watch Californication!

You would have people getting home late and missing South Park? Have you no shame man?!

[L0oniX]

126. "traffic jam" Chris Christie must be involved.

[Derek V]

106. DURec

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

117. Just doing the right thing is sometimes ineffectual, disruptive, and illegal.

At least in the short run.

[Howler]

123. But! But! But!

That man is blocking traffic !!!! WAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!OMG!!! What will the press say about the Cause now!WWWWWAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!
Excellent post Tierra!

[LostInAnomie]

121. I didn't realize being a liberal meant applauding every ham fisted/self defeating idea...

... some left leaning group comes up with.

Get in lock-step everyone! We've got traffic to go stand around in!

[Howler]

128. No one is asking YOU to stand in traffic if you dont believe in it or the cause LostInAnomie

Just don't throw stones at the people that are standing for something! You got a better idea Do tell.... Or better yet DO!!!

[NutmegYankee]

132. It's a reckless strategy.

What if someone plows through a group? It's both dangerous to the protestors and won't bring people to our side. Take it from one liberal to another. This isn't the right tactic.

[Howler]

144. Wow!

there have already been two instances that I know of cars plunging into the protesters. Has protesting EVER been a safe or popular action? EVER! Really? Not in America it hasn't Historically to present time. EVER!!!!

[NutmegYankee]

154. There are safer methods that are also more effective.

Go after those who have the power to effect change.

[LostInAnomie]

156. Blocking is traffic is self defeating pointlessness.

It does nothing to get you message across. It pisses potential allies off. It does nothing to actually draw attention to the issues in the MB case. It's just a bunch of people blocking traffic for reasons that only make sense to themselves.

If they are actually actively harming the cause, I feel comfortable throwing as many stones as I like.

Lunch counter sit ins: Brought attention to segregation and the institutional enforcement of it.

Bus boycotts: Withdrew financial support from a service that was discriminating against black people.

Free Speech Movement: Actually pushed back against campus policies that were against free speech by practicing free speech on campus as a form of civil disobedience.

Blocking traffic protest: Blocked people trying to get home or to work to protest institutional racism and police violence.

One of these things is not like the other.

[Howler]

162. Bull Puckey!

EVERY protest calls attention to the issue! Which BTW is much bigger then just Michael Brown. It is a systemic acceptance of unnecessary violence and murders by the police force committed against minorities nation wide. Which is why they are blocking traffic Nation wide!

[LostInAnomie]

171. Right... I'm sure that's a natural connection everyone stuck in traffic will make.

"I'm being blocked from home because of unnecessary violence and murders by the police force committed against minorities nation wide."

Surely, they will make that connection. No way they will think the people blocking them are morons and turn off to anything they say.

[Howler]

183. Or..

Maybe the people in the cars will read the protesters signs and that will make a connection for them! Or we could all just wait,do nothing until the sky opens up with a flight of angels swooping down to correct all the problems !! ROFL!!! yeah. that will work.snort.PLEASE!

[Historic NY]

130. So what is the mission end......

piss off people who can't travel or solidarity with Ferguson. The end game doesn't work especially on a holiday. But by all means please proceed, afterall its your right to impede traffic and then complain when the authorities break it up.

Authoritarianism no its fucking commonsense.

[Howler]

138. Hmmmm well thats a perfectly rational way to look at it

If your convenience is so much more important then peoples lives.

[NutmegYankee]

143. You're not saving lives by blocking traffic.

Reforming police forces saves lives.

[Howler]

145. And what forces the reforms of the police departments?

Hmmmmmm Just What do you think protests are about?

[NutmegYankee]

153. Try disrupting a town council meeting.

Pissing off innocent people won't do it. The political class doesn't care about them.

[Howler]

158. Thats been done already too.

They are hitting the town councils, Media they are hitting everything they can!! These so called innocent people need to be getting pissed off at the murder of innocent black men.

[Historic NY]

161. Protests no, new elected people that are in charge ...

if Ferguson wants change then they need to vote, the minority population is the majority...either theny didn't notice or they don't care...."change here needs to come from within".

[Howler]

164. protest is part of the change.

And has I said down thread with all the gerrymandering,voter purges,Voter intimidation,voter I.D. laws that swept this nation last election it sounds very much like you are blaming the victims. A little attention to the process is not unwarranted and protests do do that!

[bluedigger]

152. If your end game is business as usual you have no common sense.

[99Forever]

139. They had better be prepared to have their cozy little existances...

... be "inconvenienced" a whole lot, cuz' there's a giant shitstorm on the horizon and it's headed straight towards them.

Civil disobedience is what happens when the fascist pigs ignore the sufferings of We the People.

[Howler]

149. Thats right!

The lid is getting ready to blow .

[Oktober]

163. Stupid and ineffective is stupid and ineffective...

I calls 'em like I sees 'em.....

[Howler]

167. Well. If its so "Stupid" and" ineffective"

Why are we sitting here talking about it today. Why is it in the headlines?Hmmmm Seems to be quite effective to me. Thank you for proving my point Oktober.

[Oktober]

172. Not all press is good press...

More enemies means a harder road to your goal...

Be honest, it's not about enacting change because then you would do something that would result in actual... change

This is a cry for attention at the cost of the very cause you claim to advocate for.

[Howler]

180. Bullshit!

Protesters are ALWAYS vilified been that way since the beginning time!!! Protest is a way of drawing attention to societal problems and inequities'. Today is no different. Successful protests in the past were always seen in negative light and propaganda during their time it was history that exonerated them.

[OutNow]

165. There are Democrats and then there are activists who vote for Democrats on election day

but know that one day of voting every two years is not the solution to society's problems. I belong to the second group. I'm old now, but I have attended protest rallies and marches and picket lines and civil disobedience actions for over 40 years. I am not a violent person, but I've been clubbed by Frank Rizzo's thugs (also known as the Philadelphia police department), spied on and harassed by the FBI during the COINTELPRO program, fired from a job due to my activities following the Three Mile Island disaster, and will be protesting against Walmart tomorrow as part of the nation-wide Black Friday actions.

My guess is that the DU folks who are complaining about actions taken by thousands of people in the last couple of days to protest the legal murder of Michale Brown have not taken part in these protests, have not experienced the pain of a police billy club to the head, have not witnessed the solidarity of people from around the world trying to close the School of Americas (i.e. the school of assassins), or participated in the recent Occupy movement.

My personal wake-up call was meeting and then joining Vietnam Veterans Against The War (VVAW). Maybe these folks who complain about protesters stopping traffic will have their own wake-up call some day. Maybe when they lose their home in the next market crash. or see their son or daughter die during the next war. At that point I will welcome them to the struggle. Until then I will ignore them.

[Howler]

170. Thank you

For all that you do and have done OutNow.

[RiverLover]

174. Excellent post. Here's another big Thank you!! ~nt

[WillyT]

178. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[gwheezie]

182. Thank you to the protesters

I'm so impressed with them. They are participating in civil disobedience. From their groups our future is being formed. I support them. There is something very powerful in refusing to be moved.
I do plan on voting for Hillary by the way. I see some posters decided she has something to do with this.

[JDPriestly]

185. If it makes people feel like they are doing something, OK>

But where were these crowds when it was time to get the vote out in November?

Forming coalitions and voting are the way to get change.

[uppityperson]

186. While understandable, locking as disruptive meta which is against GD's SOP.

Threads complaining about Democratic Underground or its members; threads complaining about jury decisions, locked threads, suspensions, bannings, or the like; and threads intended to disrupt or negatively influence the normal workings of Democratic Underground and its community moderating system are not permitted.