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Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:45 AM Nov 2014

DU religion survey

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by William769 (a host of the General Discussion forum).

Last edited Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:20 PM - Edit history (2)

Pretty simple, just check the one that applies to you.

EDIT: Yes, I know it doesn't include Muslim. It was there earlier but a couple of people were offended that I didn't include an option for Hindu. I couldn't remove any of the others because people had already picked them so I removed Muslim as that hadn't had anyone click on it and replaced it with Hindu. It's not intended as a slight, it's just that there's only 10 slots.


117 votes, 4 passes | Time left: Poll closed
Atheist
60 (51%)
Agnostic
16 (14%)
Christian
19 (16%)
Jewish
1 (1%)
Hindu
0 (0%)
Sikh
2 (2%)
Buddhist
3 (3%)
Reconstructionist (attempting to rebuild a previously lost faith, i.e. Aesir)
1 (1%)
Neo-Pagan
1 (1%)
Other
14 (12%)
Show usernames
Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll
289 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
DU religion survey (Original Post) Prophet 451 Nov 2014 OP
Jewish-ish. Behind the Aegis Nov 2014 #1
Alas, the polling didn't allow for multiple entries :) Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #2
LOL! Yeah, that's the obligatory "other." Behind the Aegis Nov 2014 #4
Not bad, thanks Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #16
As my friend Rachel said when I caught her eating bacon Recursion Nov 2014 #9
I have said something like that too...a lied a few times. Behind the Aegis Nov 2014 #13
India has opened my eyes to dietary laws Recursion Nov 2014 #17
How so? mahina Nov 2014 #128
Or Woody Allen's answer to the "What religion" question: "Jewish, with an explanation" (n/t) Jim Lane Nov 2014 #41
I am a Jew and proud of it. But, it's more of a cultural thing mucifer Nov 2014 #51
You, and half of all Jews MannyGoldstein Nov 2014 #87
Between the humor and the food, we can't stop being Jews. mucifer Nov 2014 #92
There's also the genetics MannyGoldstein Nov 2014 #97
Someone once said: Brigid Nov 2014 #131
that's like saying "I'm White and proud of it". 2banon Nov 2014 #240
No. okasha Nov 2014 #286
Native American? No. If he was a Palestinian on the other hand, that would compare accurately. 2banon Nov 2014 #287
Second that (or thirds or fourths, lost count) Half-Century Man Nov 2014 #284
K & R !!! WillyT Nov 2014 #3
Under Construction AndyTiedye Nov 2014 #5
Ha! Love it. nt ZombieHorde Nov 2014 #7
I'm an atheist, agnostic, Buddhist, Neo-Pagan, nihilist, ZombieHorde Nov 2014 #6
LMAO! WhiteAndNerdy Nov 2014 #12
Your loved ones are nicer than mine. Behind the Aegis Nov 2014 #14
I knew I liked you for a reason. cordelia Nov 2014 #125
Man after my own heart. lindysalsagal Nov 2014 #288
No room for Hindu? (nt) Recursion Nov 2014 #8
Only room for ten entries Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #11
It's the third largest religion in the world Recursion Nov 2014 #15
Altered it Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #85
Thanks! Sorry if I was an ass about that (nt) Recursion Nov 2014 #95
No problem Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #96
No room for Muslims, either, apparently~!! nt MADem Nov 2014 #108
Damn, how did I miss that? (nt) Recursion Nov 2014 #114
Yeah Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #160
You should have worked for the British Foreign Office in 1947. rug Nov 2014 #185
Ha! Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #187
This message was self-deleted by its author WhiteAndNerdy Nov 2014 #10
The "One And Only True One", but I'm not telling you which. You have to find your own path ;P Electric Monk Nov 2014 #18
Hrumph! Where's the profit in that? Enthusiast Nov 2014 #20
Reformed Omnian? nt Erich Bloodaxe BSN Nov 2014 #63
SPLITTERS! Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #71
We are the People's Front of Judea! (nt) Recursion Nov 2014 #104
If TRUTH were told..... DeSwiss Nov 2014 #19
Sadly, true Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #28
Very true of this country's culture.... YoungDemCA Nov 2014 #227
Bow down before me.... Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2014 #21
I know Satan, Satan is a friend of mine Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #22
Atheist.... Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2014 #23
"Don't feel like Satan / but I am to them" Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #24
Fairy tales vs. science/reason. You decide. blkmusclmachine Nov 2014 #25
No need to insult other's beliefs Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #27
Teach yourself the difference bvf Nov 2014 #30
Likening to a fairy tale is an insult Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #31
Why is that? bvf Nov 2014 #32
Don't go thinking that a petty insult is some masterful challenge Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #33
I have yet to see bvf Nov 2014 #35
Why are you straight or gay? Why do you like some foods and not others? cbayer Nov 2014 #132
Why are you male or female? skepticscott Nov 2014 #248
Because if people choose to be something, then clearly it's wrong Leopolds Ghost Nov 2014 #282
That's not an insult. rug Nov 2014 #191
There's another one! rug Nov 2014 #189
Would you prefer phil89 Nov 2014 #49
Better but still not quite right Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #56
Fairy tale sounds right to me. HERVEPA Nov 2014 #69
Let me try! rug Nov 2014 #188
Why would anyone think they're "compatible" skepticscott Nov 2014 #241
No, the only people forcing others to choose between science and faith Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #243
In other words, my question puts an uncomfortable truth skepticscott Nov 2014 #250
This edgy crap is why I don't call myself an Atheist, anymore. Odin2005 Nov 2014 #84
There's quite a few like that on DU Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #91
Stay classy. Warren Stupidity Nov 2014 #199
people are crappy towards each other here whether it is about religion or any other topic. liberal_at_heart Nov 2014 #202
The religious dogfight is supposed to be constrained to the religion forum. Warren Stupidity Nov 2014 #204
I disagree. There are many including myself enjoying this thread and are being respectful. liberal_at_heart Nov 2014 #209
You don't call yourself an atheist... MellowDem Nov 2014 #141
Particularly on an anonymous chat board skepticscott Nov 2014 #251
The value of loving your neighbor as yourself versus atomic bombs. You decide. cbayer Nov 2014 #134
Oh snap! Odin2005 Nov 2014 #151
The value of beheading apostates vs using the internet. Warren Stupidity Nov 2014 #208
UU - Deist JustAnotherGen Nov 2014 #26
non-practicing pantheist here... alterfurz Nov 2014 #29
Atheism is "far too problematic"? FLPanhandle Nov 2014 #45
Well, that's an interesting thing Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #59
Burden of proof falls on you for active statements? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Nov 2014 #100
... Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #105
I think it simply goes back to the 'nature' of a God. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Nov 2014 #107
Hence, there is no burden of proof. rug Nov 2014 #193
The burden of proof falls on the one who... stone space Nov 2014 #113
I think "presumably, not describe herself as an atheist" is wrong muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #122
The late physicist and philosopher Victor Stenger hifiguy Nov 2014 #234
Without readin it, I would disagree Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #237
"Without readin it, I would disagree" nt. Warren Stupidity Nov 2014 #269
This is mainly a problem in the definition of the words Atheist and Agnostic DireStrike Nov 2014 #267
You're not even getting the basics right. phil89 Nov 2014 #50
in fairness many of these arguments assume the "gnostic atheist" position, Warren Stupidity Nov 2014 #273
Atheist atheist here. stone space Nov 2014 #34
Me too. FLPanhandle Nov 2014 #46
That's about the mildest declaration of militant atheism I've seen. rug Nov 2014 #194
where's the born-again hedonist catagory belzabubba333 Nov 2014 #36
Only room for ten categories. bvf Nov 2014 #37
my only 2 religions.d'oh belzabubba333 Nov 2014 #38
LOL! n/t. bvf Nov 2014 #39
UU deutsey Nov 2014 #40
UU as well CanonRay Nov 2014 #72
Another UU here. 3catwoman3 Nov 2014 #112
Pagan & UU Chemisse Nov 2014 #178
UU & Pagan LiberalEsto Nov 2014 #285
I'm proud to see the high percentage of atheists here. FLPanhandle Nov 2014 #42
Many believers are smart too Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #61
That attitude is why I don't call myself an Atheist, anymore. Odin2005 Nov 2014 #90
I wonder what a "new atheist" is? MellowDem Nov 2014 #142
The militant anti-theist followers of Hitchens, Harris, and Dawkins. Odin2005 Nov 2014 #148
Sounds incredibly subjective.. MellowDem Nov 2014 #157
. rug Nov 2014 #196
I'm curious what your take on morality is then DireStrike Nov 2014 #271
This message was self-deleted by its author Codeine Nov 2014 #168
Maybe the "New Atheists" are sick of being called skepticscott Nov 2014 #255
There is zero correlation between intelligence and religiosity. cbayer Nov 2014 #167
Except of course that there is. Warren Stupidity Nov 2014 #203
Like hell there isn't. AtheistCrusader Nov 2014 #257
Clicking that button is extraordinarily difficult. rug Nov 2014 #195
There are smart believers here! I may not be one but I assure you there are. hrmjustin Nov 2014 #238
I believe in a great Universal Energy, but reject the dogma of religion RiverLover Nov 2014 #43
"And I don't need a guide book to know the difference btn right & wrong." 3catwoman3 Nov 2014 #115
The Creative Energy of the Universe Thirties Child Nov 2014 #169
None of the above. rogerashton Nov 2014 #44
Atheist (nt) bigwillq Nov 2014 #47
Weird. A faith that worships money isn't even listed HereSince1628 Nov 2014 #48
Well, there's only ten slots Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #62
They should add the worship of Mammon. bluedigger Nov 2014 #139
We are all capitalists now... Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #144
Buddhist. Odin2005 Nov 2014 #52
I do strongly admire the noble eightfold path Recursion Nov 2014 #70
I'm technically an Atheist, too, but... Odin2005 Nov 2014 #73
It's funny, I was in a play last year about Swami Vivekenanda Recursion Nov 2014 #74
A lot of the spiritual movements that emerged in the Axial Age were "Humanist" or "Atheistic". Odin2005 Nov 2014 #83
Huh. Jeremiah was in that period too. Recursion Nov 2014 #93
All of the Old Testament Prophets were from that period, too. Odin2005 Nov 2014 #98
Ah, yes, I do know that. But Jeremiah was... well, I'm sure you know Recursion Nov 2014 #99
You should check out Amos. Brigid Nov 2014 #117
Amos and Malachi are my two favorite prophets Recursion Nov 2014 #118
My pastor preached on this the Sunday after the election: Brigid Nov 2014 #138
Plato and Aristotle, also Recursion Nov 2014 #101
And Pythagoras. Odin2005 Nov 2014 #102
That was an amazing generation; it also possibly produced Lao Tzu (nt) Recursion Nov 2014 #103
People have demonized the word atheist... MellowDem Nov 2014 #143
The New Atheist crowd has successfully made themselves into a joke Odin2005 Nov 2014 #146
What is new atheism? MellowDem Nov 2014 #152
By "New Atheism" I mean the simplistic anti-theism popularized by... Odin2005 Nov 2014 #155
So three people? MellowDem Nov 2014 #159
What's "simplistic" is the attempt skepticscott Nov 2014 #258
Here is the top entry if you google it... goldent Nov 2014 #171
If that's new atheism.... MellowDem Nov 2014 #175
Or maybe because most of the loud atheists are dicks... Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #183
As noted above, the people you refer to skepticscott Nov 2014 #259
I guess... MellowDem Nov 2014 #261
Link's dead, btw Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #246
You switched from atheist to Buddhist? Can I ask when and why? liberal_at_heart Nov 2014 #179
The teachings of the Buddha have made me a better, happier person. dawg Nov 2014 #222
That's fair enough Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #231
I have often thought that the teachings of Buddha and Jesus are very similar. liberal_at_heart Nov 2014 #239
really? How so? Warren Stupidity Nov 2014 #274
Other. Hindu. It's the third largest religion in the world. Just saying. Recursion Nov 2014 #53
Ran out of slots Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #64
That was me, not a co-religionist :) Recursion Nov 2014 #66
Jewish is a culture. Hari Seldon Nov 2014 #54
Sure, I understand that Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #65
Other H2O Man Nov 2014 #55
Skeptical agnostic or atheist? wyldwolf Nov 2014 #57
Seems very intellectually dishonest? Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #75
Nah, it doesn't wyldwolf Nov 2014 #89
YES, it is intellectually dishonest: Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #109
NO, it is not. wyldwolf Nov 2014 #110
I think most atheists would reverse their beliefs if God came down from heaven goldent Nov 2014 #174
Most of the first group would be fundies Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #182
I have this image in my mind goldent Nov 2014 #276
Sounds about right :) Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #279
I'm not an atheist. I am a Buddhist. I guess you could say I'm an agnostic Buddhist. liberal_at_heart Nov 2014 #233
Well there is Biblical precedence for this position... goldent Nov 2014 #278
The position challenged was to state they were for something when they were not. Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #262
LOL, because of the way most of us were raised I understand that. nt Logical Nov 2014 #77
I Picked Other ProfessorGAC Nov 2014 #58
Why does this list exclude Hindu people while including 'Reconstructionists' which last time I Bluenorthwest Nov 2014 #60
+1 Recursion Nov 2014 #67
Different kind of recon Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #68
So Dominionists and other fundies would call themselves recons. Bluenorthwest Nov 2014 #80
Edited it to clarify that Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #86
What's with the la carte "religious" beliefs? Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #76
OK, I'll have a tilt at it Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #82
I concure regarding the experiential nature of spiritual gnosis. Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #116
But which version of Christ and whose interpretation? CJCRANE Nov 2014 #120
That suggests, the "church" has no authority, it's all chimera Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #123
Which church? CJCRANE Nov 2014 #133
All "churches" Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #170
For the reassurance of a shared community, tradition and culture. CJCRANE Nov 2014 #172
So churches are just social clubs? Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #264
Sure but... Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #149
Thats fine grist for the mill, but.... Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #173
Former atheist, now a Christian Shrek Nov 2014 #78
That's interesting Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #127
I don't mind Shrek Nov 2014 #161
Thank you for responding Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #163
Christian meow2u3 Nov 2014 #79
Clicked 'atheist', but technically more 'militant agnostic'. *L* Rhythm Nov 2014 #81
How can one be a militant agnostic? Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #88
Yeah... "I don't know... AND NEITHER DO YOU!" Rhythm Nov 2014 #135
Cultural Christian. Otherwise... freshwest Nov 2014 #94
Christian.n/t. hrmjustin Nov 2014 #106
Then there are the atheists who pretend they are agnostic Android3.14 Nov 2014 #111
I hadn't noticed many doing that Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #129
Oh yes Android3.14 Nov 2014 #153
I can kinda see someone coming in both camps Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #156
I am an agnostic atheist OriginalGeek Nov 2014 #229
and then there are religious people who commit evil in the name samsingh Nov 2014 #213
recovering catholic spanone Nov 2014 #119
Christian. dawg Nov 2014 #121
Yet those "good things" are self-evident. Cosmic Kitten Nov 2014 #124
Self-evident? YoungDemCA Nov 2014 #225
My husband is agnostic. He gets asked all the time by evangelical Christians liberal_at_heart Nov 2014 #235
I would agree with that Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #130
Christian. Brigid Nov 2014 #126
Islam is the second largest religion in the world ....? etherealtruth Nov 2014 #136
Oy Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #150
Chrisbuddish. CJCRANE Nov 2014 #137
That sounds like my son. He finds the stories from all religions interesting, but I do liberal_at_heart Nov 2014 #180
Most of it's believers died out Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #184
That's a nice coincidence, I was brought up on Greek mythology. CJCRANE Nov 2014 #186
Follow one sarisataka Nov 2014 #140
Raised Presbyterian. I keep the label in honor of those who died for the faith. riqster Nov 2014 #145
That's fair enough Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #158
Atheist and agnostic are not mutually exclusive.... MellowDem Nov 2014 #147
No, they aren't Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #162
It seems you agree with me? MellowDem Nov 2014 #177
Sort-of Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #181
Gnostic atheists then... MellowDem Nov 2014 #254
Hmm, not sure that's true Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #256
It's for the gods that have specific claims... MellowDem Nov 2014 #268
Scientific atheist/secular humanist now. hifiguy Nov 2014 #154
I find voodoo fascinating Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #165
I'm a non-believer, but I find too many atheists too obnoxious to identify as one. Comrade Grumpy Nov 2014 #164
Fair enough Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #166
Former christian, now an atheist Bryce Butler Nov 2014 #176
Religions of the world! yortsed snacilbuper Nov 2014 #190
Seen that before Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #201
Wiccan Hatchling Nov 2014 #252
Hard to believe you included Sikh but not Muslim. Blue_In_AK Nov 2014 #192
The story with that is... Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #198
Surprising to me that we have no Muslims here Blue_In_AK Nov 2014 #260
If you ever do another poll like this LostOne4Ever Nov 2014 #197
Atheist and agnostic are distinct Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #200
They are distinct and do overlap LostOne4Ever Nov 2014 #207
Aren't you the person who recently did a long screed on how you should be cbayer Nov 2014 #219
I agree and it doesn't matter how often some say they are not distinct, they still are. cbayer Nov 2014 #218
I love it that Unitarians are always "other" even on a site like this one full of progressives. redstatebluegirl Nov 2014 #205
Well, as I understand it... Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #210
There are a few of us rogerashton Nov 2014 #266
I worship Henny Youngman olddots Nov 2014 #206
you missed 'muslim' samsingh Nov 2014 #211
The story with that is... Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #212
missing 'spiritualist' samsingh Nov 2014 #214
missing 'scientologist' samsingh Nov 2014 #215
Knock it off Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #216
ok samsingh Nov 2014 #230
i could have said festivus samsingh Nov 2014 #232
Atheism and agnosticism are not mutually exclusive MillennialDem Nov 2014 #217
No, but they are distinct Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #226
I am a Christian. trueblue2007 Nov 2014 #220
Shinto~Buddhist. (Jodo Shinshu) yuiyoshida Nov 2014 #221
"Intellectually, I'm a Deist. Emotionally, I'm a Christian!" Thom Hartmann LongTomH Nov 2014 #223
That's interesting Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #228
Christian. n/t YoungDemCA Nov 2014 #224
I was born an atheist, then I was raised with being taught the Catholic religion. logosoco Nov 2014 #236
Other. okasha Nov 2014 #242
"Process"? n/t Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #244
Process theology rogerashton Nov 2014 #265
I'm an agnostic, dyslexic insomniac. panader0 Nov 2014 #245
rimshot please! Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #247
As a lifelong bricklayer, I have laid over two million units. panader0 Nov 2014 #249
I thought that was a type of chipboard! LongTomH Nov 2014 #277
I am Christian.. mvd Nov 2014 #253
Ethnically Jewish but atheist. Would describe myself as a secular humanist LeftishBrit Nov 2014 #263
I know but the poll software doesn't allow that Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #280
I said atheist madokie Nov 2014 #270
Taoist Agnostic Atheist Pagan intheflow Nov 2014 #272
Sounds familiar Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #281
Other: All of the above options and all the others not included. Contrary1 Nov 2014 #275
Wise words, IMO Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #283
Locking. This is against the Statement of Purpose. William769 Nov 2014 #289

Behind the Aegis

(53,897 posts)
1. Jewish-ish.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:51 AM
Nov 2014

I incorporate many things into my spirituality, but maintain a strong secular system. Thank D-g for cognitive dissonance!

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
2. Alas, the polling didn't allow for multiple entries :)
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:52 AM
Nov 2014

Behind the Aegis

(53,897 posts)
4. LOL! Yeah, that's the obligatory "other."
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:01 AM
Nov 2014

I guess that would have fit better, but I am not ashamed of being labeled a Jew. "Eclectic" would have been better, but hey, them's the breaks.

Hope things are well in your world.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
16. Not bad, thanks
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:26 AM
Nov 2014

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
9. As my friend Rachel said when I caught her eating bacon
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:14 AM
Nov 2014

"Well, I'm Jewish."

Behind the Aegis

(53,897 posts)
13. I have said something like that too...a lied a few times.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:20 AM
Nov 2014

If I don't like something, I declare not Kosher. However, if I eat bacon or something in the same group, I just tell the person it was blessed by a rabbi. I know I shouldn't take advantage of cultural ignorance, but it keeps people out of my food. LOL!

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
17. India has opened my eyes to dietary laws
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:30 AM
Nov 2014

It's really changed my understanding of both kosher and halal.

mahina

(17,581 posts)
128. How so?
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:04 PM
Nov 2014

And to the op, "nobody's business", nor is my age or gender or other characteristic.

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
41. Or Woody Allen's answer to the "What religion" question: "Jewish, with an explanation" (n/t)
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 08:15 AM
Nov 2014

mucifer

(23,438 posts)
51. I am a Jew and proud of it. But, it's more of a cultural thing
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 09:21 AM
Nov 2014

than a religious thing. I'm really an agnostic and a Jew. I just felt more comfortable putting down that I'm Jewish.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
87. You, and half of all Jews
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:28 AM
Nov 2014
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/story/2011-09-26/jew-atheist-god/50553958/1

Based on my Hebrew-school education, I suspect that Judaism and agnosticism are highly compatible.

mucifer

(23,438 posts)
92. Between the humor and the food, we can't stop being Jews.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:31 AM
Nov 2014
 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
97. There's also the genetics
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:40 AM
Nov 2014

I got my genetics tested by 23 and Me a while back, they reported the percentage of my jewishness (99% Ashkenazi).

Brigid

(17,621 posts)
131. Someone once said:
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:07 PM
Nov 2014

Here's every Jewish holiday rolled into one: "They tried to kill us, we won, let's eat!"

 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
240. that's like saying "I'm White and proud of it".
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:52 PM
Nov 2014

reminds me of a housemate who just couldn't understand why i didn't have an issue with "illegals" coming in from Mexico. His concern was that the demographics of our population was going to change dramatically and that Whites will soon be a minority, maybe in the next generation.

Asked with astonishment why I didn't care, don't I have any pride in my race. I said no, that it was stupid thing to be "proud" of. It's not an accomplishment or an achievement, it's totally a random thing from birth that I had no decision in making and it's just not meaningful to me in any way... he rushed at me with a fist ready to crush my skull in. didn't happen, though totally surprised and taken aback with some measure of fear for my safety I said something, he backed off and I soon moved away from that house.

I just don't get being "proud" of one's ethnicity, race, culture or religion.

it's a fundamental requirement in fostering bigotry and hatred. .

okasha

(11,573 posts)
286. No.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 08:27 PM
Nov 2014

It's more like saying "I'm Native American and proud of it."

I don't think Whites have the same history of surviving attempts at extermination.

 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
287. Native American? No. If he was a Palestinian on the other hand, that would compare accurately.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 08:31 PM
Nov 2014

Half-Century Man

(5,279 posts)
284. Second that (or thirds or fourths, lost count)
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 07:38 PM
Nov 2014

I'm a Jew who understands our predecessors explained things as best they could. Those explanations have been accidentally changed (and sometimes via intent) over time and when transitioning between languages.

So much from the oral legacies and cross cultural exchanges has become blurred through time, I find it most interesting when archeology can back up legend (or suggest a chain of cross cultural exchange).

 

WillyT

(72,631 posts)
3. K & R !!!
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:53 AM
Nov 2014

AndyTiedye

(23,500 posts)
5. Under Construction
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:10 AM
Nov 2014

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
7. Ha! Love it. nt
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:12 AM
Nov 2014

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
6. I'm an atheist, agnostic, Buddhist, Neo-Pagan, nihilist,
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:11 AM
Nov 2014

but my loved ones call me a degenerate.

WhiteAndNerdy

(365 posts)
12. LMAO!
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:16 AM
Nov 2014

I'm pretty sure that's how some of my relatives feel about me.

Behind the Aegis

(53,897 posts)
14. Your loved ones are nicer than mine.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:21 AM
Nov 2014

I can't repeat what they say; I'd get banned.

cordelia

(2,174 posts)
125. I knew I liked you for a reason.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:01 PM
Nov 2014

lindysalsagal

(20,538 posts)
288. Man after my own heart.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 08:32 PM
Nov 2014

To make it even worse, I'm also a salsa dancer. Mom LOVES that.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
8. No room for Hindu? (nt)
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:13 AM
Nov 2014

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
11. Only room for ten entries
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:16 AM
Nov 2014

I didn't want to drop the neo-pagans or the Recons because I know there's a few here. Didn't know there were any Hindus here. Apologies.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
15. It's the third largest religion in the world
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:21 AM
Nov 2014

But, I do get your point.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
85. Altered it
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:26 AM
Nov 2014

Hindu is now an option

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
95. Thanks! Sorry if I was an ass about that (nt)
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:36 AM
Nov 2014

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
96. No problem
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:37 AM
Nov 2014

MADem

(135,425 posts)
108. No room for Muslims, either, apparently~!! nt
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 11:09 AM
Nov 2014

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
114. Damn, how did I miss that? (nt)
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 11:37 AM
Nov 2014

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
160. Yeah
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 02:02 PM
Nov 2014

The story is this: There were only ten slots. I originally included Muslim but didn't include Hindu because I ran out of slots. A couple of Hindus pointed this out. I couldn't drop reconstructionist (as I should have done in the first place) since someone had already picked it but no-one had yet picked Muslim. So I dropped Muslim and replaced it with Hindu.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
185. You should have worked for the British Foreign Office in 1947.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:43 PM
Nov 2014

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
187. Ha!
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:45 PM
Nov 2014

Maybe so.

Response to Prophet 451 (Original post)

 

Electric Monk

(13,869 posts)
18. The "One And Only True One", but I'm not telling you which. You have to find your own path ;P
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:31 AM
Nov 2014

nt

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
20. Hrumph! Where's the profit in that?
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:56 AM
Nov 2014


You anti-capitalist!

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
63. Reformed Omnian? nt
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 09:49 AM
Nov 2014

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
71. SPLITTERS!
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 09:58 AM
Nov 2014

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
104. We are the People's Front of Judea! (nt)
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:45 AM
Nov 2014
 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
19. If TRUTH were told.....
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:53 AM
Nov 2014

...here's most people's GOD:



- K&R




God's Away On Business

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
28. Sadly, true
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 05:52 AM
Nov 2014
 

YoungDemCA

(5,714 posts)
227. Very true of this country's culture....
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:34 PM
Nov 2014

...particularly in recent decades.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
21. Bow down before me....
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 05:00 AM
Nov 2014

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
22. I know Satan, Satan is a friend of mine
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 05:02 AM
Nov 2014

and you, sir, are no Satan.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
23. Atheist....
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 05:03 AM
Nov 2014

According to some people I know, it's the same thing.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
24. "Don't feel like Satan / but I am to them"
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 05:07 AM
Nov 2014

So I try and forget it / every way I can"

 

blkmusclmachine

(16,149 posts)
25. Fairy tales vs. science/reason. You decide.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 05:42 AM
Nov 2014

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
27. No need to insult other's beliefs
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 05:51 AM
Nov 2014

Last edited Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:31 AM - Edit history (1)

Science and faith are not incompatible, no matter what fundies and militant atheists think.

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
30. Teach yourself the difference
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 06:12 AM
Nov 2014

between an insult and a challenge.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
31. Likening to a fairy tale is an insult
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 06:13 AM
Nov 2014

It's not a challenge, it's just an insult.

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
32. Why is that?
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 06:22 AM
Nov 2014

If one's belief is anything more than a fairy tale, a more satisfying answer would be expected--at least among those who actually use their brains.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
33. Don't go thinking that a petty insult is some masterful challenge
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 06:26 AM
Nov 2014

I know you're accustomed to thinking that "your beliefs are fairy tales" is some masterful challenge from the atheist founts of wisdom but it's not, it's just a childish insult and this isn't the place for debating belief. The question was simply what belief position/system the responder, not "please use this as an excuse to insult other people's beliefs".

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
35. I have yet to see
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 06:40 AM
Nov 2014

Last edited Fri Nov 28, 2014, 07:26 AM - Edit history (1)

a rational, direct response around here to the very simple and direct question, "Why do you believe?"

No one's asking for dissertations; a few honest sentences would do.

I do appreciate the poll, btw. Gotta give you that.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
132. Why are you straight or gay? Why do you like some foods and not others?
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:09 PM
Nov 2014

Why do you not believe? Do you think belief is a choice? Could you choose to believe?

I'm not asking for a dissertation. A few honest sentences would do.

 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
248. Why are you male or female?
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 05:30 PM
Nov 2014

And yes, adhering to religion and believing in a God is something people choose to do. Why else would you accuse both atheists and religionists of proselytizing (you've done both)? If belief weren't a choice, there would be no point in trying to convert people, any more than there would be any point in trying to "convert" gay people back to being straight, now would there?

Trying to equate belief (clearly a choice) to being gay, as if that were a "choice", is pretty despicable, especially on a progressive chat board.

Leopolds Ghost

(12,875 posts)
282. Because if people choose to be something, then clearly it's wrong
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 07:32 PM
Nov 2014

They can only be proud of stuff they have no control over, that makes them feel special.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
191. That's not an insult.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:50 PM
Nov 2014


Wait, there it is! Before the edit.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
189. There's another one!
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:48 PM
Nov 2014


This is fun. Find the insult!
 

phil89

(1,043 posts)
49. Would you prefer
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 09:14 AM
Nov 2014

the term mythology?

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
56. Better but still not quite right
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 09:31 AM
Nov 2014

Normally, the term for a religion's beliefs is "theology". That said, the line between theology and mythology is an extremely fine one and some mythologies still have believers today.

 

HERVEPA

(6,107 posts)
69. Fairy tale sounds right to me.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 09:55 AM
Nov 2014
 

rug

(82,333 posts)
188. Let me try!
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:47 PM
Nov 2014


That was an insult.
 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
241. Why would anyone think they're "compatible"
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 05:18 PM
Nov 2014

simply because some people can irrationally compartmentalize their brains to hold both notions at once, out of some psychological need?

Do you consider democracy and slavery to be compatible? Yes or no?

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
243. No, the only people forcing others to choose between science and faith
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 05:22 PM
Nov 2014

are fundies, atheist or theist.

/ignore_you

 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
250. In other words, my question puts an uncomfortable truth
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 05:34 PM
Nov 2014

in a place where you can't rationalize it away. So your reaction is to stick your fingers in your ears, and hurl insults. Very telling.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
84. This edgy crap is why I don't call myself an Atheist, anymore.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:25 AM
Nov 2014

I don't want to be associated with people who flaunt their lack of religious belief as a way of bragging of how smart and enlightened they are.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
91. There's quite a few like that on DU
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:30 AM
Nov 2014

Not going to name names (as that would be a call-out and violate teh TOS) but I'm sure you've seen the same people I have.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
199. Stay classy.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:06 PM
Nov 2014

Here's a suggestion: if you post on religion in GD, try not to assume that you are in the religion forum. Bringing that dogfight out here, which you just did with that post is reprehensible.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
202. people are crappy towards each other here whether it is about religion or any other topic.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:11 PM
Nov 2014

I realize this is a message board, and you can't expect civility on message boards on any topic. It's just sad to see people use the anonymity of a message board as an excuse to be mean and nasty to one another regardless of what the topic is.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
204. The religious dogfight is supposed to be constrained to the religion forum.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:13 PM
Nov 2014

The op of this poll has used what appeared to be a harmless poll to bring that dogfight out here, and that is a crap thing to do.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
209. I disagree. There are many including myself enjoying this thread and are being respectful.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:16 PM
Nov 2014

MellowDem

(5,018 posts)
141. You don't call yourself an atheist...
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:21 PM
Nov 2014

Because you don't like how some atheists act? There is a logical disconnect there.

 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
251. Particularly on an anonymous chat board
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 05:39 PM
Nov 2014

where no one knows who the fuck you are anyway.

I don't like how some liberals act, and I don't like how some Americans act, but it doesn't make me run away from calling myself either.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
134. The value of loving your neighbor as yourself versus atomic bombs. You decide.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:10 PM
Nov 2014

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
151. Oh snap!
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:44 PM
Nov 2014
 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
208. The value of beheading apostates vs using the internet.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:14 PM
Nov 2014

JustAnotherGen

(31,754 posts)
26. UU - Deist
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 05:44 AM
Nov 2014

alterfurz

(2,468 posts)
29. non-practicing pantheist here...
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 06:07 AM
Nov 2014

...many levels of consciousness, many gods. Each blind man holding onto a different part of the elephant. Oh sure, on good days I might still muster up a little dishwater agnosticism, but atheism remains far too problematic--as Woody put it, there's no way you can prove God doesn't exist: you just have to take it on faith.

The gods hear and answer all prayers. The answer to the common petition to suspend just this once the Law of Cause and Consequence is customarily No. (Trust in Allah, but always tie your camel. Pray to Neptune, but row away from the rocks.) Sometimes when the gods want to punish us, they give us what we ask for, and to reward us, they don't. General guideline: If you don't pray when the sun shines, don't pray when it rains. Corollary: "If the only prayer you say in your life is thank you, that would suffice." -- Meister Eckhart (c. 1260-c. 1328). Personally, I'm counting on that.

Useful deity validity test:
You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. -- Anne Lamott, Traveling Mercies (Pantheon, 1999)

FLPanhandle

(7,107 posts)
45. Atheism is "far too problematic"?
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 08:41 AM
Nov 2014

As for the "there's no way you can prove God doesn't exist", you might want to educate yourself on the concept of Burden of Proof.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
59. Well, that's an interesting thing
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 09:42 AM
Nov 2014

When someone says "I don't believe in god", they're making a statement about the self. No-one can argue with that since the atheist would know if s/he believed and would, presumably, not describe herself as an atheist (although I described myself as an atheist for a while because it was simpler than explaining and here (UK), atheism is no big deal).

However, when you say "there is no god", you're not making a statement about the self, you're making a statement about the universe and then I would say the burden of proof falls on the person making the universal claim.

Now, that's speaking only about the existence of a god(s). When you make any assertions about a god, then you're making an active statement and the burden falls on you again.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
100. Burden of proof falls on you for active statements?
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:41 AM
Nov 2014

So if I say 'God is not a giant purple and green striped pineapple with a rat's head' the burden of proof is on me?
What if my friend then says it is? We're both saying things that are mutually exclusive, so which of us does the burden of proof fall upon?

However, when you say "there is no god", you're not making a statement about the self, you're making a statement about the universe and then I would say the burden of proof falls on the person making the universal claim.


To which I reply, when you say 'there is a God',you're not making a statement about the self, you're making a statement about the universe and then I would say the burden of proof falls on the person making the universal claim.

See how that works? By the logic you use in the comment above, the burden of proof is upon anyone who even brings up 'God', no matter what they say. Does exist, doesn't exist, is a giant pineapple, etc, etc, etc.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
105. ...
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:46 AM
Nov 2014
To which I reply, when you say 'there is a God',you're not making a statement about the self, you're making a statement about the universe and then I would say the burden of proof falls on the person making the universal claim.


But if I say "I believe in a god", then I'm back to making a statement about teh self.

I take your point though, I'll think on it some more.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
107. I think it simply goes back to the 'nature' of a God.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:51 AM
Nov 2014

Or at least the definition that most people seem to accept as being part of 'God'. That he/she/it/they are 'beyond natural laws'. They are a God if they are outside natural laws - if not, they aren't really a 'God', just extremely powerful, but in a way that can be explained by science.

So a 'God' can do or be illogical, and any attempt to simply 'prove' it by logic either cannot succeed, or can only succeed in regards to extremely powerful, yet still within the boundary of nature type of creatures, ie, not Gods.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
193. Hence, there is no burden of proof.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:53 PM
Nov 2014
 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
113. The burden of proof falls on the one who...
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 11:29 AM
Nov 2014

...wishes to convince others of their position, regardless of what that position is.

We're both saying things that are mutually exclusive, so which of us does the burden of proof fall upon?


Merely making a claim incurs nothing.

The burden of proof is a burden taken on voluntarily.



muriel_volestrangler

(101,256 posts)
122. I think "presumably, not describe herself as an atheist" is wrong
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 12:51 PM
Nov 2014

and your own sentence calls her 'the atheist' before that.

As far as the 'burden of proof' goes, consider what FLPanHandle was replying to:

"non-practicing pantheist here...

...many levels of consciousness, many gods. Each blind man holding onto a different part of the elephant. Oh sure, on good days I might still muster up a little dishwater agnosticism...

The gods hear and answer all prayers. ... Sometimes when the gods want to punish us, they give us what we ask for, and to reward us, they don't. "

Notice that viewpoint is far beyond agnosticism, as it explicitly says.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
234. The late physicist and philosopher Victor Stenger
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:41 PM
Nov 2014

makes a compelling existence for the non-existence of supernatural beings in God - The Failed Hypothesis. His science and logic are airtight.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
237. Without readin it, I would disagree
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:46 PM
Nov 2014

Simply put, without visiting the entire universe (and even then, you could miss one another), you cannot categorically say that X does not exist. You can say it's unlikely, improbable, very improbable or whatever. But you can't absolutely-for-certain say X does not exist. Even if you could, that would not necessarily mean that the teachings of X belief system were worthless.

That said, I will look for the book and see what I think.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
269. "Without readin it, I would disagree" nt.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 06:50 PM
Nov 2014

DireStrike

(6,452 posts)
267. This is mainly a problem in the definition of the words Atheist and Agnostic
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 06:41 PM
Nov 2014

If you put those two words on a continuum, any reasonable person would find one of them to be a ridiculous position, depending on how they defined each.

Instead the most productive way to look at is as describing two different questions. The agnostic/gnostic divide is addressing the question of whether we have absolute knowledge of the topic. If someone claims to be a gnostic theist or atheist, you can pretty quickly rule out the possibility of a reasonable conversation. Most reasonable people would say "I can't prove absolutely that there is or isn't a god," making them agnostic. Then they would say:

"BUT, I believe/don't believe there is a god." This is the question of theism. It is possible to have a belief without absolute knowledge. In fact if you really think about it, all the believing we do is in the absence of total knowledge.

Therefore, I call myself an agnostic atheist. Two separate, only loosely related terms. I can't prove there's no god (and I don't think that anyone can), so I don't KNOW. But I find it a completely ridiculous idea, and so I don't BELIEVE.

 

phil89

(1,043 posts)
50. You're not even getting the basics right.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 09:18 AM
Nov 2014

atheism isn't a faith based positio, it's a rejection of a claim. It also has no burden of proof. Is lack of belief in leprechauns a faith based position? I think people should understand the basic definitions.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
273. in fairness many of these arguments assume the "gnostic atheist" position,
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 06:59 PM
Nov 2014

that is that the person categorically knows there are no gods, not the "agnostic atheist" position that there is no evidence for the existence of gods, and that while gods might exist, it is simply absurdly improbable that they do.

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
34. Atheist atheist here.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 06:36 AM
Nov 2014

And kind of a militant atheist as well, I suppose.

FLPanhandle

(7,107 posts)
46. Me too.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 08:47 AM
Nov 2014

Of course, living in the bible belt has tempered my militant side some.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
194. That's about the mildest declaration of militant atheism I've seen.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:55 PM
Nov 2014
 

belzabubba333

(1,237 posts)
36. where's the born-again hedonist catagory
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 06:41 AM
Nov 2014
 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
37. Only room for ten categories.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 07:00 AM
Nov 2014

That's why the nine-eyed-goat worshippers also missed the cut.

 

belzabubba333

(1,237 posts)
38. my only 2 religions.d'oh
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 07:02 AM
Nov 2014
 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
39. LOL! n/t.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 07:11 AM
Nov 2014

deutsey

(20,166 posts)
40. UU
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 07:16 AM
Nov 2014

The Hindu philosophy known as Advaita Vedanta comes close to capturing my religious inclination, although I'm not an adherent of it. What I understand of its basic insights resonate with how I see things.

CanonRay

(14,068 posts)
72. UU as well
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 09:59 AM
Nov 2014

3catwoman3

(23,915 posts)
112. Another UU here.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 11:22 AM
Nov 2014

Long have been in my outlook, but a relative recent participant in a small local congregation. It has been good to find a community where thinking outside the mainstream spiritual box is welcomed and supported.

I did not take our sons, now 24 and 22, to any religious services. I generally kept that to myself because people look at you real funny if you admit that you don't take your kids to church. Sometimes almost feels like people would like tto turn you in to Child Protective Services for neglect. We actually discussed spirtual matters quite a lot, so that part of their development was not at all ignored. I finally came up with my own term for my approach - some people home school their kids. I "home-churched" mine.

Chemisse

(30,801 posts)
178. Pagan & UU
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:25 PM
Nov 2014

A nice fit.

 

LiberalEsto

(22,845 posts)
285. UU & Pagan
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 08:25 PM
Nov 2014

FLPanhandle

(7,107 posts)
42. I'm proud to see the high percentage of atheists here.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 08:17 AM
Nov 2014

I knew this was a smart group of people.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
61. Many believers are smart too
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 09:47 AM
Nov 2014

The sneering contemptuous assumption that only atheists can be smart is not a good way to make allies.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
90. That attitude is why I don't call myself an Atheist, anymore.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:28 AM
Nov 2014

I'm sick of the New Atheists telling everyone how smart and enlightened they are.

MellowDem

(5,018 posts)
142. I wonder what a "new atheist" is?
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:25 PM
Nov 2014

I've mostly seen it used by the religious right to define atheists that are vocal. Can you define it?

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
148. The militant anti-theist followers of Hitchens, Harris, and Dawkins.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:41 PM
Nov 2014

Who spew bad philosophy (morality can be derived from science!), bad history ("Christianity caused the Dark Ages!!!&quot , and bad theology (all religious people believe in a magical sky-daddy!)

MellowDem

(5,018 posts)
157. Sounds incredibly subjective..
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:59 PM
Nov 2014

Like just your personal opinion, got better sources?

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
196. .
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:00 PM
Nov 2014

DireStrike

(6,452 posts)
271. I'm curious what your take on morality is then
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 06:52 PM
Nov 2014

Where is morality derived from? Or are you a moral relativist?

Response to Odin2005 (Reply #90)

 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
255. Maybe the "New Atheists" are sick of being called
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 05:47 PM
Nov 2014

"New Atheists". No one that people like you try to paste that label on started off calling themselves that, now did they? But the people you're trying disparagingly to refer to don't just say THAT one position is more enlightened than another. They go into great detail explaining WHY.

Do you think creationists and climate change deniers get tired of being told how wrong and stupid they are, that they're just a bunch of dumbasses?

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
167. There is zero correlation between intelligence and religiosity.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 02:24 PM
Nov 2014

For someone who probably holds himself up as more rational and reasonable and based in science, this statement is pure bunk.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
203. Except of course that there is.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:11 PM
Nov 2014

In a 2013 meta-analysis, led by Professor Miron Zuckerman, of 63 scientific studies about IQ and religiosity, a negative relation between intelligence and religiosity was found in 53, and a positive relation in the remaining ten. Controlling for other factors, they can only confidently show strong negative correlation between intelligence and religiosity among American Protestants.[1][2]

The relationship between countries' belief in a god and average Intelligence Quotient, measured by Lynn, Harvey & Nyborg.[11]
Nyborg also co-authored a study with Richard Lynn, emeritus professor of psychology at the University of Ulster, which compared religious belief and average national IQs in 137 countries.[11] The study analysed the issue from several viewpoints. Firstly, using data from a U.S. study of 6,825 adolescents, the authors found that atheists scored 6 IQ points higher than non-atheists.

Secondly, the authors investigated the link between religiosity and intelligence on a country level. Among the sample of 137 countries, only 23 (17%) had more than 20% of atheists, which constituted “virtually all... higher IQ countries.” The authors reported a correlation of 0.60 between atheism rates and level of intelligence, which was determined to be “highly statistically significant”.[

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence
 

rug

(82,333 posts)
195. Clicking that button is extraordinarily difficult.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:57 PM
Nov 2014
 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
238. There are smart believers here! I may not be one but I assure you there are.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:49 PM
Nov 2014

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
43. I believe in a great Universal Energy, but reject the dogma of religion
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 08:32 AM
Nov 2014

And I don't need a guide book to know the difference btn right & wrong.

3catwoman3

(23,915 posts)
115. "And I don't need a guide book to know the difference btn right & wrong."
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 11:41 AM
Nov 2014

Indeed not. Thank you. There are things that are right because they just are , and things that are wrong because they just are .

I like the term Great Universal Energy.

Thirties Child

(543 posts)
169. The Creative Energy of the Universe
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 02:45 PM
Nov 2014

The Creative Energy of the Universe is what Edgar Cayce called it, your great Universal Energy works just as well. Ever since I left atheism behind in 1968 I've thought of it this way.

rogerashton

(3,920 posts)
44. None of the above.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 08:36 AM
Nov 2014

I would be an atheist, but my faith is not strong enough.

 

bigwillq

(72,790 posts)
47. Atheist (nt)
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 08:48 AM
Nov 2014

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
48. Weird. A faith that worships money isn't even listed
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 08:57 AM
Nov 2014

I don't want to go all CT but ignoring the greatest faith system in the northern hemisphere is strange!


Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
62. Well, there's only ten slots
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 09:48 AM
Nov 2014

Granted, the sacred market uber alles is probably the most widespread belief system but people tend not to actually kneel and worship it.

bluedigger

(17,084 posts)
139. They should add the worship of Mammon.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:20 PM
Nov 2014

Although, since it is also sometimes considered a devil or Beelzebub in Christian theory, maybe it's just a branch of Satanism. Tough call, but in any case, I would hope it's an insignificant part of DU's membership. Still, you never know...

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
144. We are all capitalists now...
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:32 PM
Nov 2014

I actually am a Satanist (Luciferian) but I think living in the western world pretty much forces you to be capitalist to some degree.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
52. Buddhist.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 09:23 AM
Nov 2014

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
70. I do strongly admire the noble eightfold path
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 09:56 AM
Nov 2014

As someone who has been both Christian and Hindu I think the Eightfold Path is entirely compatible with both.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
73. I'm technically an Atheist, too, but...
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:01 AM
Nov 2014

I prefer the Buddhist label because it seems nowadays "Atheist" has come to mean "New Atheist jerk".

Siddhartha Gautama was a Humanist in the classic sense, he, like most Indians of his time, believed in the old "Aryan" gods, he just thought them to be irrelevant.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
74. It's funny, I was in a play last year about Swami Vivekenanda
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:03 AM
Nov 2014

And as we studied him, gurus kept saying, "well, many would say he wasn't exactly a religious thinker, more of a humanist". The Buddhists pretty quickly said "Sounds like Siddhartha". After another day or so I said "also sounds like Jesus of Nazareth."

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
83. A lot of the spiritual movements that emerged in the Axial Age were "Humanist" or "Atheistic".
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:21 AM
Nov 2014

The Axial Age being the period from about 800 BC to 200 BC. It was a period of rapid social change and economic development, a lot like the modern world. It was only after the Axial Age ended and the great empires of the later Ancient World established themselves (Rome, Han China, and Gupta India) that people, in reaction to the increasingly stultified and repressed atmosphere, retreated to otherworldly religiousness. The Greek philosophical tradition decayed into Neo-Platonist esotericism, which was then absorbed by Christianity. The various philosophical movements of Ancient India decayed as the Brahmins took back their power and promoted the Salvationist god cults still common in India today. The Humanism of Confucius was turned into a tool of state ideology. The sublime mysticism of Taoism degenerated into superstition and even quackery.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
93. Huh. Jeremiah was in that period too.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:35 AM
Nov 2014

I really admire him.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
98. All of the Old Testament Prophets were from that period, too.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:40 AM
Nov 2014

Interestingly, prophets were not unique to the Hebrews, they were a common phenomenon in all of the ancient Levant, including Phoenicia and Syria.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
99. Ah, yes, I do know that. But Jeremiah was... well, I'm sure you know
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:41 AM
Nov 2014

He was his own kind of amazing.

Brigid

(17,621 posts)
117. You should check out Amos.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 12:24 PM
Nov 2014

He would be very popular as a DUer.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
118. Amos and Malachi are my two favorite prophets
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 12:25 PM
Nov 2014

Amazing stuff.

For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

Brigid

(17,621 posts)
138. My pastor preached on this the Sunday after the election:
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:18 PM
Nov 2014

The Day of the Lord

18 Woe to you who long
    for the day of the Lord!
Why do you long for the day of the Lord?
    That day will be darkness, not light.
19 It will be as though a man fled from a lion
    only to meet a bear,
as though he entered his house
    and rested his hand on the wall
    only to have a snake bite him.
20 Will not the day of the Lord be darkness, not light—
    pitch-dark, without a ray of brightness?

21 “I hate, I despise your religious festivals;
    your assemblies are a stench to me.
22 Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings,
    I will not accept them.
Though you bring choice fellowship offerings,
    I will have no regard for them.
23 Away with the noise of your songs!
    I will not listen to the music of your harps.
24 But let justice roll on like a river,
    righteousness like a never-failing stream!

New International Version (NIV)

I think he was upset.


  


Recursion

(56,582 posts)
101. Plato and Aristotle, also
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:42 AM
Nov 2014

That just struck me..

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
102. And Pythagoras.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:43 AM
Nov 2014

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
103. That was an amazing generation; it also possibly produced Lao Tzu (nt)
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:44 AM
Nov 2014

MellowDem

(5,018 posts)
143. People have demonized the word atheist...
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:27 PM
Nov 2014

For millennia, giving into their bullying doesn't help, it was obviously effective for you.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
146. The New Atheist crowd has successfully made themselves into a joke
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:36 PM
Nov 2014
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/in-this-moment-i-am-euphoric.

They jumped the shark when Sam Harris published his book The Moral Landscape, which is so full of bad philosophy it's sad.

MellowDem

(5,018 posts)
152. What is new atheism?
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:48 PM
Nov 2014

How is it defined? Who defines it? And what does any of hat have to do with the logical disconnect of not identifying as an atheist because some people you don't like are atheists? You'd have a hard time identidying as anything with that logic.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
155. By "New Atheism" I mean the simplistic anti-theism popularized by...
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:52 PM
Nov 2014

...people like Sam Harris, Chris Hitchens, and Richard Dawkins.

MellowDem

(5,018 posts)
159. So three people?
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 02:01 PM
Nov 2014

No tenets? What about other anti-theist people? What's good anti-theism? I've seen the term new atheist used by lots of religious right authors to refer to any vocal atheist. Are they wrong?

 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
258. What's "simplistic" is the attempt
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 05:54 PM
Nov 2014

by people like you to keep pushing the false and easily discredited notions that the people you mention only attack some caricatured straw man of religion that no one actually adheres to or practices, or that "theology" is some deep font of complex knowledge and understanding that is beyond their comprehension. No one who has read and actually understood what they've written (and their direct responses to this silly meme) thinks that.

goldent

(1,582 posts)
171. Here is the top entry if you google it...
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:07 PM
Nov 2014
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Atheism

From the first paragraph...

New Atheism is a social and political movement in favour of atheism and secularism promoted by a collection of modern atheist writers who have advocated the view that "religion should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized, and exposed by rational argument wherever its influence arises."[1]


I think there plenty of other examples where people have certain beliefs/opinions, but don't want to be associated with groups that have variations (for example, more extreme) of those beliefs/opinions. Common with religion, so no big surprise it happens with atheism.

MellowDem

(5,018 posts)
175. If that's new atheism....
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:19 PM
Nov 2014

Then it doesn't sound extreme at all. Also, atheism isn't a belief system, unlike religion.

I think people feel much more comfortable readily identifying with bigoted belief systems than with atheism because of religious privilege, and people are much quicker to label atheism as "extreme" or "militant" because of that as well.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
183. Or maybe because most of the loud atheists are dicks...
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:40 PM
Nov 2014

...who affect a kind of sneering, contemptuous self-assured superiority to people of faith, a kind of "you're just too dumb to know we're right" that grates on people.

No, it's not fair to judge a group by it's worst members. But it's a very human tendency. Logically, atheism is no more predisposed to attract assholes than any faith. But the assholes are always loud and, just as many think of Christianity in the terms of Pat Robertson, many others think of atheism in the terms of the assholes.

 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
259. As noted above, the people you refer to
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 06:00 PM
Nov 2014

don't simply assert, as believers do. They take whole books to demonstrate why one position has more intellectual support than another.

It has been confidently asserted on DU (and not by me) that religious beliefs are irrational and illogical, and not intelligent. How would you react to that?

MellowDem

(5,018 posts)
261. I guess...
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 06:24 PM
Nov 2014

But atheism doesn't have an asshole belief system behind it, all the Abrahamic religions have explicitly bigoted texts and foundations. It's a little different tonisentify with such a religion and coast on the fact that it's mainstream, saying you don't agree with all the worst parts of what you identify with, and identifying as an atheist.

Also, the religious right still intentionally demonizes atheists and some of the wording is clearly a way of making atheists seem inherently extreme, when atheism says nothing about being an asshole or not.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
246. Link's dead, btw
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 05:26 PM
Nov 2014

Brings up a 404 error

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
179. You switched from atheist to Buddhist? Can I ask when and why?
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:26 PM
Nov 2014

I grew up Christian but never went to church. Then after I had kids I went from one Christian denomination to another but never really felt like it fit. I started looking into Buddhism and it just fit. I knew I had found my religion.

dawg

(10,619 posts)
222. The teachings of the Buddha have made me a better, happier person.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:30 PM
Nov 2014

I'm a Christian, but that doesn't stop me from learning from other belief systems and traditions.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
231. That's fair enough
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:38 PM
Nov 2014

I feel somewhat the same about Taoism (my father's belief system).

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
239. I have often thought that the teachings of Buddha and Jesus are very similar.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:50 PM
Nov 2014
 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
274. really? How so?
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 07:05 PM
Nov 2014

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
53. Other. Hindu. It's the third largest religion in the world. Just saying.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 09:24 AM
Nov 2014

There's a billion of us at this point I think.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
64. Ran out of slots
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 09:51 AM
Nov 2014

As I said to your co-religionist upthread, there were only ten slots and I didn't know there were any Hindus here. Wasn't intended as a slight and sorry if it came off as one.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
66. That was me, not a co-religionist :)
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 09:53 AM
Nov 2014

Thanks, BTW!

 

Hari Seldon

(154 posts)
54. Jewish is a culture.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 09:28 AM
Nov 2014

One is Jewish because one is born of a Jewish mother, or if they convert.

One can be an atheist Jew, i.e. if someone born Jewish decides that there is no God, that person does not stop being Jewish.

So whereas I consider myself Atheist, I also consider myself Jewish.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
65. Sure, I understand that
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 09:52 AM
Nov 2014

I'm partly Roma (gypsy) and a Luciferian Satanist. So yeah, I can easily understand you being both.

H2O Man

(73,446 posts)
55. Other
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 09:31 AM
Nov 2014

Earthling

wyldwolf

(43,867 posts)
57. Skeptical agnostic or atheist?
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 09:37 AM
Nov 2014

I always tell people I'm an atheist with one foot propping to the door open to believersville - so if the big guy DOES come back I can say "Hey! I was with you the whole time!"

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
75. Seems very intellectually dishonest?
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:07 AM
Nov 2014

wyldwolf

(43,867 posts)
89. Nah, it doesn't
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:28 AM
Nov 2014

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
109. YES, it is intellectually dishonest:
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 11:13 AM
Nov 2014
Intellectual honesty is an applied method of problem solving,
characterized by an unbiased, honest attitude,
which can be demonstrated in a number of different ways,
including but not limited to:

One's personal beliefs do not interfere with the pursuit of truth;

Relevant facts and information are not purposefully omitted
even when such things may contradict one's hypothesis;

Facts are presented in an unbiased manner, and not twisted
to give misleading impressions or to support one view over another;

Reversing one's beliefs based on expediency
is inherently intellectually dishonest.
Character matters.

wyldwolf

(43,867 posts)
110. NO, it is not.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 11:15 AM
Nov 2014

But your definition certainly applies to the majority of your posts on DU.

And by the way, I'm here all day. No shopping for me me.

goldent

(1,582 posts)
174. I think most atheists would reverse their beliefs if God came down from heaven
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:16 PM
Nov 2014

Sure, there would be a small number who would be skeptical of the event, finding some inconsistency of his coming with a particular Bible quote

But I wouldn't call this being intellectually dishonest, just common sense.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
182. Most of the first group would be fundies
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:36 PM
Nov 2014

Ironically, they've so rules-lawyered the Bible that virtually any appearance of Christ would be automatically assumed to be a Satanic deception by them.

goldent

(1,582 posts)
276. I have this image in my mind
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 07:05 PM
Nov 2014

of people of the various religions (including atheism), arguing about whose god it is, or whether it is a god at all. God looks around, shakes his/her head, and says "Never mind, I'm outta here."

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
279. Sounds about right :)
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 07:28 PM
Nov 2014

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
233. I'm not an atheist. I am a Buddhist. I guess you could say I'm an agnostic Buddhist.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:40 PM
Nov 2014

I don't know if there is a God. I don't spend much time contemplating it. I would probably be one of those skeptical of a sighting of God though. He would have to appear before my very eyes(second hand accounts would not do), and even then I might think I was having a stroke or had food poisoning or something.

goldent

(1,582 posts)
278. Well there is Biblical precedence for this position...
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 07:08 PM
Nov 2014
Now Thomas (also known as Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
262. The position challenged was to state they were for something when they were not.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 06:27 PM
Nov 2014

If you change your position after the fact
based on expediency, that is intellectual dishonesty.

Most atheist would not be acting dishonestly so long
as they didn't lie about their previously held conviction.

But it's all academic, there will not be any such revelation.
These religious debates are what happen when
people confuse symbols for reality...
when people take mythology to be a literal truth.

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
77. LOL, because of the way most of us were raised I understand that. nt
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:09 AM
Nov 2014

ProfessorGAC

(64,735 posts)
58. I Picked Other
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 09:39 AM
Nov 2014

Maybe i'm a Jedi, i don't know. I don't claim to know either way about any of this. That being said, i don't care. I have no interest in pursuing it. That's not atheistic. It's not agnostic.

I'm not sure what one would call it. I just don't care either way. Right or wrong, i just don't care.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
60. Why does this list exclude Hindu people while including 'Reconstructionists' which last time I
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 09:44 AM
Nov 2014

checked were offshoots of the faith they wanted to reconstruct, there are Christian and Jewish Reconstructionists, but how is it a stand alone faith? I'd say you are giving some faith groups nuanced choices while leaving billions of people out of the equation entirely. But that's just me.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
67. +1
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 09:54 AM
Nov 2014

In fairness the OP has explained that upthread, but I still object...

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
68. Different kind of recon
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 09:55 AM
Nov 2014

Reconstructionists describes those who seek to rebuild a once lost faith, including no intentional (but some unintentional) modern influences. For example, those who adopt teh Norse Aesir and try to live by the tenets of old-time Asatru are recons.

In retrospect, I should have included Hindu but there were only ten slots.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
80. So Dominionists and other fundies would call themselves recons.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:16 AM
Nov 2014

It is not a stand alone faith. 'Recon' is an adjective that needs a faith name next to it to have any meaning whatsoever. A 'Christian Reconstructionist' has no real commonalities with a person wanting to reconstruct ancient Norse religions. The 'recon' part does not join them into a group, the theology divides them into groups.
So many Hindu people on Earth and personally I have much influence from Hindu practice.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
86. Edited it to clarify that
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:26 AM
Nov 2014

Also added Hindu as an option

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
76. What's with the la carte "religious" beliefs?
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:08 AM
Nov 2014

Could someone explain how it's acceptable
to have à la carte religious beliefs AND STILL
claim to be a follower of a specific religion?

Specifically, how can one claim to be say "christian"
and yet violate or ignore very clear and specific
"laws" of the church. Or be a "Buddhist" that ignores
the "suffering" their lifestyle causes?

This is an earnest inquiry.
I just don't understand the rationalization
of an "eclectic" approach while maintaining that
one follows a "religion"?

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
82. OK, I'll have a tilt at it
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:21 AM
Nov 2014

Firstly, it varies by religion. I don't know very much about Buddhism so I can't speak for that but the Bible is so long and includes so many contradictory passages that every Christian has to pick and choose just to get through it. Additionally, Jesus supposedly abolished the old Levitical laws (although fundies love to quote Leviticus against gay people). No Christian follows everything in the Bible. That's simply not possible in the modern world and would probably get you locked up for trying.

Secondly, some religions are highly experiential and the faith is constructed through personal gnosis with the deity. That includes my own faith (Luciferian Satanist), some forms of Wicca and various others.

Thirdly, all religions have always had schisms between followers based on their interpretation of their texts. If Christianity had never had such schisms, every Christian would be Catholic. For Judaism, there's the schism between Orthodox and Reform. For Islam, there's the divisions between Shia, Sufi and Sunni. Wicca, there's Alexandrian and Gardenerian. For Satanism, there's LaVeyan, Setian, Luciferian and the punk kids that give the rest of us a bad name.

Finally, recons (those trying to rebuild lost faiths) simply don't have any other choice. While one can try and rebuilt, say, Druidism, we simply don't know much about them and virtually everything we think we know comes from their enemies (and is therefore highly suspect). Recons try to exclude modern interpretation as much as they can but the patchy information about their faiths means they can't help but disagree on some points.

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
116. I concure regarding the experiential nature of spiritual gnosis.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 12:14 PM
Nov 2014

Once spiritual gnosis is attained it is no longer "faith".
It's knowledge.

As to christianity, why does any individual need to "pick and choose"
isn't that the job and purpose of the church?
At it's core, being a christian means to live like Christ, to be christ like.
Simply living according to the 10 commandments would suffice as the "rules".

Regarding "schisms" wouldn't it suffice to just pick one path
and follow it unquestioningly? Again, the issues is the a la carte
picking and choosing. If practicing faith is so arbitrary does it have
any meaning or authority to provide gnosis?
Seems more like mental jewelry than a spiritual path...
why bother with the church if we can pick and choose?

And as to recons?
That seems like a curious endeavor.
Aside from the anthropological understanding, of what need
is there to revisit beliefs which no longer serve contemporary life?
It seems more like a boutique religious belief based on how it makes
us feel about ourselves rather than the instruction towards experiential gnosis.
There are plenty of practices alive today which lead to gnosis without
having to reconstruct a belief system that was culturally and historically specific.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
120. But which version of Christ and whose interpretation?
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 12:27 PM
Nov 2014

Which version of the 10 commandments and whose interpretation?

That's the point of religion: there is no one true answer. Jesus isn't here to tell us what he meant.

(Neither is Moses, Buddha, Mohammed etc).

That's why each person and group has to interpret it for themselves.

Just a cursory glance at Wikipedia tells us there is no agreed simple interpretation of the 10 Commandments. There are millenia of nuances and competing interpretations and translations. That applies to all religions. That's why ultimately it's up to each individual to decide.

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
123. That suggests, the "church" has no authority, it's all chimera
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 12:55 PM
Nov 2014

As such it renders any defense of an organized religion
not simply folly, but delusion?

If there is no authority,
isn't it little more than wishful thinking?

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
133. Which church?
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:09 PM
Nov 2014

Protestant/Catholic/Greek Orthodox/Gnostic/Sunni/Shia/Sufi/Mahayana etc?

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
170. All "churches"
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:01 PM
Nov 2014

For our purpose, "church" stands in for the "institution"
It's just shorthand for institutional religion.

So if we take your position that:
That's why each person and group has to interpret it for themselves. ...
there is no absolute "authority" on these matters.

As such, the truth is chimera.
Why bother with any church if you can simply
create an eclectic assembly à la carte ?

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
172. For the reassurance of a shared community, tradition and culture.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:10 PM
Nov 2014

Not everyone wants to find their own way.

They may be happy to go along with the faith tradition they were brought up in, or find a new faith tradition that they broadly agree with and find comfort in.

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
264. So churches are just social clubs?
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 06:31 PM
Nov 2014

That's a great idea!

But unfortunately people go to war and oppress others
based on what social club to which they belong.
They make laws and deprive others of their natural born
rights based on those beliefs.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
149. Sure but...
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:41 PM
Nov 2014
Once spiritual gnosis is attained it is no longer "faith".
It's knowledge.


To an extent but it's subjective knowledge since it is attained as an individual and can't be shared with others (discounting faiths with covens). I can feel teh presence of Father Lucifer but I experience that as an individual and it is filtered through my own mind and senses with their own strengths and failings.

At it's core, being a christian means to live like Christ, to be christ like.
Simply living according to the 10 commandments would suffice as the "rules".


I would think so but Paul laid out many additional rules (such as teh prohibition on homosexuality) which many Christians take as being on the same level as Jesus's teachings.

Aside from the anthropological understanding, of what need
is there to revisit beliefs which no longer serve contemporary life?


Many of them didn't die out because they were no longer needed but were actively suppressed. For example, the pagan pantheon of Rome was directly suppressed by the Christians once they had political power and the Catholic church suppressed many divergent beliefs (known as "heresies&quot . Also, the fact that something was no longer needed at a particular point in time doesn't necessarily mean it is no longer needed for all time. There may have been a period when that faith/path was no longer useful but, as times change, it becomes useful again.

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
173. Thats fine grist for the mill, but....
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:13 PM
Nov 2014

it doesn't address my primary question
how it's acceptable to have à la carte
religious beliefs AND STILL claim to be
a follower of a specific religion?

How can someone claim to be catholic
but reject such fundamental issues of birth control?
That type of personal picking-n-choosing over
the Vatican would seem to disqualify one as a follower?

Or a Buddhist disregarding fundamental issues of suffering
while they spread insecticides on their lawn or buy clothes
made with virtually slave labor?

It's about the inherent contradictions between personal wants
over the basic tenets of their chosen spiritual path.
If we can legitimately pick-n-choose what to follow or believe
there is no authority in any "religion" regarding it's ability to foster
the experiences necessary to achieve gnosis?

Shrek

(3,972 posts)
78. Former atheist, now a Christian
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:12 AM
Nov 2014

I was a non-believer through my teens and early 20s.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
127. That's interesting
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:04 PM
Nov 2014

There's any number of people who go from Christian to atheist, of course, but it's rare to meet someone who's gone the other direction. If you don't mind me asking, what was it that converted you (and feel free to tell me to mind my own business if it's too personal).

Shrek

(3,972 posts)
161. I don't mind
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 02:09 PM
Nov 2014

Part of it was personal reflection and study, and part of it was being in a relationship with a believer who actually walked the walk. We've been together 30 years and she's still the example to which I aspire.

This is an informative thread; thanks for posting it.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
163. Thank you for responding
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 02:14 PM
Nov 2014

It's interesting to hear from, as I said, someone quite unusual.

meow2u3

(24,755 posts)
79. Christian
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:13 AM
Nov 2014

Catholic to be exact.

Rhythm

(5,435 posts)
81. Clicked 'atheist', but technically more 'militant agnostic'. *L*
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:19 AM
Nov 2014

Definitely a 'recovering Baptist'... it's amazing how long it takes to get the crazy fundamentalism out of one's system. *L*

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
88. How can one be a militant agnostic?
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:28 AM
Nov 2014

"I don't know and you don't either"?

Understood about the difficulty in getting out from fundie mentality.

Rhythm

(5,435 posts)
135. Yeah... "I don't know... AND NEITHER DO YOU!"
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:10 PM
Nov 2014

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
94. Cultural Christian. Otherwise...
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:35 AM
Nov 2014

Last edited Fri Nov 28, 2014, 12:31 PM - Edit history (1)



I belong to no one. I will not dance to anyone else's tune. I say this without malice.


 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
106. Christian.n/t.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:47 AM
Nov 2014
 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
111. Then there are the atheists who pretend they are agnostic
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 11:16 AM
Nov 2014

As a hopeful agnostic, I wonder why so many atheists do that.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
129. I hadn't noticed many doing that
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:05 PM
Nov 2014

Have you noticed a lot?

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
153. Oh yes
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:49 PM
Nov 2014

I've seen people claiming their atheist beliefs are really just a stronger form of agnosticism, or even claim to be an agnostic atheist/atheist agnostic. Haven't seen the debate here as such, but I stopped paying attention to the religionist fights (both atheist and godists). At smirkingchimp years ago, we debated the topic several times, and as an agnostic, it annoyed me when atheists would try to claim agnosticism was the same as atheism in order to make it seem as if there were more atheists in the room.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
156. I can kinda see someone coming in both camps
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:57 PM
Nov 2014

I'm thinking someone who says "I don't know but I doubt there's a god" would count as an agnostic/atheist.

OriginalGeek

(12,132 posts)
229. I am an agnostic atheist
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:36 PM
Nov 2014

I do not know if there are any gods and can't prove or disprove there is a god or gods. AND I do not believe there are any gods.
I've never claimed atheism and agnosticism were the same thing. They are clearly not.

Everyone ever born is agnostic. If anyone ever had any proof then the whole argument would be moot. I know there are some people who believe so strongly that there is a god that they think they know but nobody knows if there are any gods. I also know a few people that believe so strongly there are not any gods that they think they know there aren't but those are fewer.

If my knowledge changes I will reassess my belief.

samsingh

(17,589 posts)
213. and then there are religious people who commit evil in the name
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:19 PM
Nov 2014

of their religion.

spanone

(135,756 posts)
119. recovering catholic
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 12:26 PM
Nov 2014

dawg

(10,619 posts)
121. Christian.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 12:41 PM
Nov 2014

I think bad people use religion as an excuse to be hateful to others, and good people use religion as a motivation to do good. On the balance, I think most of the world's major religions have good things to teach us if we are open-minded and seekers of wisdom.

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
124. Yet those "good things" are self-evident.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:01 PM
Nov 2014

No need for a "religion" at all.

An position could be created that
the United States' "Freedom Documents"
are a sound as any historical scripture to be used
as a basis for a spiritual path.
Perhaps a better foundation due to it's universal, inclusive protections.

 

YoungDemCA

(5,714 posts)
225. Self-evident?
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:33 PM
Nov 2014

To whom?

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
235. My husband is agnostic. He gets asked all the time by evangelical Christians
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:44 PM
Nov 2014

where do you get your ethics. He says he gets them from within himself. Most people know that killing is bad for example. Why just yesterday my husband was talking to one of his friends and he said he didn't have any food. My husband immediately packed a bag full of food and took it over to him on Thanksgiving and our dating anniversary by the way taking time away from his personal holiday to help a friend. Most ethics are self evident.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
130. I would agree with that
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:06 PM
Nov 2014

Brigid

(17,621 posts)
126. Christian.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:03 PM
Nov 2014

Methodist, Burleigh Catholic leanings too. The two are really not that incompatible.

etherealtruth

(22,165 posts)
136. Islam is the second largest religion in the world ....?
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:13 PM
Nov 2014

I don't see it as a choice ... sorry if this was pointed out upthread

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
150. Oy
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:43 PM
Nov 2014

It was there earlier but a couple of people were offended that I didn't include an option for Hindu. I couldn't remove any of teh others because people had already picked them so I removed Muslim as that hadn't had anyone click on it and replaced it with Hindu. It's not intended as a slight, it's just that there's only 10 slots.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
137. Chrisbuddish.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:17 PM
Nov 2014

I just made that up.

I'm interested in religion and religions but could never choose just one because they're all interesting.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
180. That sounds like my son. He finds the stories from all religions interesting, but I do
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:31 PM
Nov 2014

believe Greek mythology is probably his favorite, not that Greek mythology is a religion anymore but he still finds it fascinating none the less. I wonder why out of all the religions Greek mythology is the one that went from religion to mythology?

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
184. Most of it's believers died out
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:42 PM
Nov 2014

There are a few recons trying to rebuild it, same as a few are trying to rebuild Roman paganism, Asatru, Kemeticism, etc. From observation, "mythology" is what we call any religion without enough followers to have political power.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
186. That's a nice coincidence, I was brought up on Greek mythology.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:44 PM
Nov 2014

My parents were non-religious when I was younger but I had two big picture books that I used to pore over, one was of Jason and the Argonauts and the other was a collection of Greek Myths.

I'm not an expert, but from what I've read it seems that with the advent of the famous philosophers and their schools of logic and reason, the Greeks started to question the point of worshiping gods who weren't much different to humans with all their flaws and vices.

sarisataka

(18,425 posts)
140. Follow one
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:21 PM
Nov 2014

But respect all.

It is not my place to tell anyone they are right or wrong as my beliefs are based on faith. Absolute proof of the existence (or lack thereof) of an omnipotent is essentially impossible.

riqster

(13,986 posts)
145. Raised Presbyterian. I keep the label in honor of those who died for the faith.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:33 PM
Nov 2014

But to tell the truth, I pretty much live my life trying to he a better person on a daily basis, without a lot of active church attendance to distract me.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
158. That's fair enough
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 02:00 PM
Nov 2014

Just trying to be a good person is a perfectly acceptable belief system and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

MellowDem

(5,018 posts)
147. Atheist and agnostic are not mutually exclusive....
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:37 PM
Nov 2014

It's frustrating to see polls that constantly reinforce this wrong idea by treating them as mutually exclusive.

It reinforces the confusion around the two words. Part of it is that atheism has been demonized for so long, agnostic has become the designated "safe" term to use to placate believers.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
162. No, they aren't
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 02:10 PM
Nov 2014

But a position of "I don't know" is different from a belief of "I don't believe". There can be some crossover ("I don't know but I doubt it&quot but they are different positions.

MellowDem

(5,018 posts)
177. It seems you agree with me?
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:22 PM
Nov 2014

Most atheists I know are agnostic, same with most theists I know.

By the definition of the words, a person can only be either agnostic or gnostic and either atheist or theist.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
181. Sort-of
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:32 PM
Nov 2014

I've known quite a few atheists who don't say "I don't believe in god" (a statement about the self) but "there is no god" (a statement about the universe).

MellowDem

(5,018 posts)
254. Gnostic atheists then...
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 05:44 PM
Nov 2014

Is what they are. And it can depend on he God. Many people would be gnostic atheists with regards to Zeus, for example

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
256. Hmm, not sure that's true
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 05:52 PM
Nov 2014

I would have thought that all you could say for certain is that you on't know of Zeus. I worship Satan, for example but there may or may not be other gods. I've never met them so I wouldn't know.

MellowDem

(5,018 posts)
268. It's for the gods that have specific claims...
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 06:45 PM
Nov 2014

That can be proven one way or the other. Many gods are defined as deistic anymore to avoid this trap. Religions have evolved to say God is unknowable, invisible etc. to just be able to say that no one can know.

Anything defined that way, people will be agnostic if honest. It's still a supernatural claim and doesn't warrant any more respect than any other supernatural claim.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
154. Scientific atheist/secular humanist now.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 01:52 PM
Nov 2014

Freethinker and skeptic since about age 10. Thank you Carl Sagan.

I have no need to spend any part of my life attempting to placate an insane, perpetually pissed-off godhead.

Though Buddhism as a practice intrigues me greatly.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
165. I find voodoo fascinating
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 02:17 PM
Nov 2014

There's something that appeals to me on a primal, aesthetic level but it's really difficult to find decent info on the faith.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
164. I'm a non-believer, but I find too many atheists too obnoxious to identify as one.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 02:14 PM
Nov 2014

So I chose none of the above.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
166. Fair enough
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 02:18 PM
Nov 2014

I've encountered some obnoxious atheists here too.

Bryce Butler

(338 posts)
176. Former christian, now an atheist
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:22 PM
Nov 2014

...

yortsed snacilbuper

(7,939 posts)
190. Religions of the world!
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:50 PM
Nov 2014

Taoism: Shit happens.
Hinduism: Shit happens again and again.
Buddhism: This shit doesn't have to keep happening.
Islam: If shit happens, it is the will of Allah.
Mormonism: You couldn't make up shit like this.
Judaism: Why does shit always happen to us?
Televangelism: Send money or shit will happen to you.
Unitarianism: Come, let us reason together about this shit.
Christianity: Jesus died to save you from your shit.
Protestantism: Shit won't happen if you work hard.
Quaker: Let us not fight over this shit.
Hedonism: Fuck this shit.
Catholicism: If shit happens, you deserve it.
Capitalism: We can sell this shit.
Rastafarianism: This is good shit.
Agnosticism: I don't know about this shit.
Atheism: I don't believe this shit.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
201. Seen that before
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:10 PM
Nov 2014

These things never include us Satanists

Hatchling

(2,323 posts)
252. Wiccan
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 05:40 PM
Nov 2014

Let's turn this shit into fertilizer!

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
192. Hard to believe you included Sikh but not Muslim.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 03:52 PM
Nov 2014

From what I've read, Islam is the fastest growing religion worldwide.

That being said, I was raised Christian, but don't consider myself much of anything now. I believe in the things that Jesus and the other great prophets allegedly taught about love and peace, but I hate what many Christian denominations have become. I don't believe in a supreme "being," and if Jesus existed, I think he was simply a wise man, not divine.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
198. The story with that is...
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:05 PM
Nov 2014

It was there earlier but a couple of people were offended that I didn't include an option for Hindu. I couldn't remove any of the others because people had already picked them so I removed Muslim as that hadn't had anyone click on it and replaced it with Hindu. It's not intended as a slight, it's just that there's only 10 slots.

You're not teh first person I've met who was essentially a Jesusian, following the man's teachings as mmuch as is possible but without believing him to be anything more than a wise man (who should be honoured for that alone).

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
260. Surprising to me that we have no Muslims here
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 06:23 PM
Nov 2014

but we do have Hindus. i've noticed that sometimes DU isn't entirely friendly to Muslims, so maybe those who may have wandered in here wander right back out.

LostOne4Ever

(9,282 posts)
197. If you ever do another poll like this
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:05 PM
Nov 2014

[font size=3 color=teal face=papyrus] could you please not split up agnostic and atheist (for us implicit atheists/ agnostic atheists) or at least use different terminology?

How about just calling us all non-theists? Or Maybe people who do not have any beliefs about gods either way vs those who believe there are no gods?

As you can no doubt see, there is a lot of controversy on what the words agnostic and atheist actually mean.
[/font]



[font size=3 color=teal face=papyrus]Plus you would have room for both Hinduism and Islam.[/font]

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
200. Atheist and agnostic are distinct
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:07 PM
Nov 2014

Atheism, "I don't believe in god" or "there is no god". Agnosticism, "I don't know". There's some crossover, "I don't know but I doubt it" but they aren't teh same thing.

That said, it would have saved me a slot to just collapse them as non-theist.

LostOne4Ever

(9,282 posts)
207. They are distinct and do overlap
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:13 PM
Nov 2014

[font size=3 color=Teal face=papyrus]But DU does not allow us to choose multiple options forcing us to choose when we r in fact both [/font]

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
219. Aren't you the person who recently did a long screed on how you should be
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:29 PM
Nov 2014

permitted to call yourself whatever your wanted. Why is it that you don't extend that right to others but insist that they are what you say they are?

You may be both, but others are not, no matter how badly you want it to be true.

Uhoh, you are now in a part of the site where those that you usually like to call out without risk can actually respond to you.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
218. I agree and it doesn't matter how often some say they are not distinct, they still are.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:25 PM
Nov 2014

redstatebluegirl

(12,265 posts)
205. I love it that Unitarians are always "other" even on a site like this one full of progressives.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:13 PM
Nov 2014

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
210. Well, as I understand it...
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:18 PM
Nov 2014

...you can't be "just" a Unitarian. You have to be something else as well, like pagan and UU or whatever. If I'm wrong, please do correct me.

rogerashton

(3,920 posts)
266. There are a few of us
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 06:38 PM
Nov 2014

"mere unitarians" left, even in UU.

 

olddots

(10,237 posts)
206. I worship Henny Youngman
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:13 PM
Nov 2014

samsingh

(17,589 posts)
211. you missed 'muslim'
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:18 PM
Nov 2014

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
212. The story with that is...
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:19 PM
Nov 2014

It was there earlier but a couple of people were offended that I didn't include an option for Hindu. I couldn't remove any of the others because people had already picked them so I removed Muslim as that hadn't had anyone click on it and replaced it with Hindu. It's not intended as a slight, it's just that there's only 10 slots.

samsingh

(17,589 posts)
214. missing 'spiritualist'
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:20 PM
Nov 2014

samsingh

(17,589 posts)
215. missing 'scientologist'
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:20 PM
Nov 2014

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
216. Knock it off
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:24 PM
Nov 2014

There are only 10 slots and I didn't include my own faith.

samsingh

(17,589 posts)
230. ok
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:37 PM
Nov 2014

samsingh

(17,589 posts)
232. i could have said festivus
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:39 PM
Nov 2014
 

MillennialDem

(2,367 posts)
217. Atheism and agnosticism are not mutually exclusive
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:25 PM
Nov 2014

Or agnosticism and religion for that matter.

Just to take Christianity/Islam/Judaism as an example because they all roughly offer the same thing as far as belief goes... ie believe in God or don't believe in God.

You can be a Gnostic Christian - which means you KNOW God exists.

Or you can be an Agnostic Christian - which means you BELIEVE (or want to believe) God exists, but you don't KNOW that God exists.

You can be a Gnostic Atheist - which means you KNOW God does not exist.

You can be an Agnostic Atheist - which means you BELIEVE God does not exist, but you don't KNOW that God does not exist.

Of course, there are varying shades of gray within agnosticism.

A simpler example of this would be I would almost certainly be agnostic that I left my car keys in my purse - I believe I did but I can't be certain unless I have an explicit memory of doing so. At the same time I can be gnostic that I left my cell phone on my computer desk as we speak :p

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
226. No, but they are distinct
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:34 PM
Nov 2014

Atheism, "I don't believe in god" or "there is no god". Agnosticism, "I don't know". There's some crossover, "I don't know but I doubt it" but they aren't teh same thing.

That said, it would have saved me a slot to just collapse them as non-theist.

trueblue2007

(17,179 posts)
220. I am a Christian.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:29 PM
Nov 2014

yuiyoshida

(41,807 posts)
221. Shinto~Buddhist. (Jodo Shinshu)
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:30 PM
Nov 2014

My family are Japanese Hawiian American. I guess maybe I have a bit of Hawaiian in my family, but there they were Shinto~Buddhist. (Jodo Shinshu). I really wish my family had not moved from Hawaii. I would have loved growing up there.. but I was born in California, so I am not complaining.. I was a surfer girl at 15..though I thought having to buy a wet suit was extremely expensive..but needed, as the Pacific gets pretty cold! I loved being down in Huntington Beach, where the water was a bit better, and they had some rad waves...

wow, what a trip, ne??

LongTomH

(8,636 posts)
223. "Intellectually, I'm a Deist. Emotionally, I'm a Christian!" Thom Hartmann
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:31 PM
Nov 2014

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
228. That's interesting
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:36 PM
Nov 2014

I think, growing up in a Christian culture (even here in the UK, the culture is predominantly Christian), we all internalise Christianity to some extent.

 

YoungDemCA

(5,714 posts)
224. Christian. n/t
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:31 PM
Nov 2014

logosoco

(3,208 posts)
236. I was born an atheist, then I was raised with being taught the Catholic religion.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 04:45 PM
Nov 2014

I began to question what they were teaching almost from the get go. I think it helped that I was being taught about Santa at the same time! Once I figured that out (with the help of my big sister!), the rest came naturally.

For years I think I was agnostic, but now that doesn't fit either.

I do believe in energy and it is obvious we all came from the same place. The bible is an interesting story, but I can't believe it is "the truth".

I don't mind other people having religion, as long as they don't force it on others or take the attitude that they are "right". No one can be. Speculating is fun and fine, but saying "this is the way it is" doesn't fly.
I guess if I had to label myself it would be something along the lines of a secular humanist. It's not an organized thing, but I like to think that the "churches" are the science museums and all of the parks, local and national.

okasha

(11,573 posts)
242. Other.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 05:21 PM
Nov 2014

Native American practice, Process theology.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
244. "Process"? n/t
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 05:24 PM
Nov 2014

rogerashton

(3,920 posts)
265. Process theology
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 06:34 PM
Nov 2014

comes from the ideas of Alfred North Whitehead and Charles Hartshorne (and others?) and differs from conventional theology in rejecting the idea of God outside of Time. God evolves with the universe, and may change and be changed. Nevertheless God is ultimate or all-inclusive, a creative will and guide to this co-evolution. (This is a quick summary based on my imperfect understanding.)

panader0

(25,816 posts)
245. I'm an agnostic, dyslexic insomniac.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 05:26 PM
Nov 2014

I lay awake at night and wonder if there really is a dog.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
247. rimshot please!
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 05:27 PM
Nov 2014

panader0

(25,816 posts)
249. As a lifelong bricklayer, I have laid over two million units.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 05:31 PM
Nov 2014

So I am also a Masonite.

LongTomH

(8,636 posts)
277. I thought that was a type of chipboard!
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 07:05 PM
Nov 2014

mvd

(65,150 posts)
253. I am Christian..
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 05:41 PM
Nov 2014

However I do not really think organized religion where you have strict rules and hierarchy is productive. I prefer to grow spiritually as an individual and with peers.

LeftishBrit

(41,200 posts)
263. Ethnically Jewish but atheist. Would describe myself as a secular humanist
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 06:28 PM
Nov 2014

I know a few people who seem to combine religions, by the way. In particular, I know one elderly widower, who was influenced by the religious beliefs of both his late wives, and is a Quaker and a Muslim at the same time.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
280. I know but the poll software doesn't allow that
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 07:30 PM
Nov 2014

madokie

(51,076 posts)
270. I said atheist
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 06:52 PM
Nov 2014

but I don't believe in any higher power at all. we're no different than the bug that last hit my windshield. when I die I die and thats it

intheflow

(28,442 posts)
272. Taoist Agnostic Atheist Pagan
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 06:57 PM
Nov 2014

Really depends on the day and context for me. There are days when I'm dead sure deities exist, and other days when I'm dead sure I would have killed myself if not for believing in some kind of higher power to give me strength to pull through.

I have a Masters of Divinity and all it really taught me was that Jesus was a great teacher, not divine, and I am not a Christian.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
281. Sounds familiar
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 07:31 PM
Nov 2014

My SO follows a blend of Kemeticism, Taoism and Paganism.

Contrary1

(12,629 posts)
275. Other: All of the above options and all the others not included.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 07:05 PM
Nov 2014

In the words of the Dalai Lama:

"Harmony among our different religious traditions is essential for world peace. Genuine harmony should be founded on mutual respect. And respect should be based on a recognition that all the world's major religious traditions are similar in having the potential to help human beings live at peace with themselves, with each other and with the environment."

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
283. Wise words, IMO
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 07:34 PM
Nov 2014

William769

(55,137 posts)
289. Locking. This is against the Statement of Purpose.
Fri Nov 28, 2014, 08:37 PM
Nov 2014
"RELIGION
Threads about current events related to religion, and threads about church-state issues are permitted under normal circumstances.

Threads about the existence/non-existence of God, threads discussing the merits (or lack thereof) of religion in general, and threads discussing the truth/untruth of religious dogma are not permitted under normal circumstances and should be posted under Religion.

Open discussion of religion is permitted during very high-profile news events which are heavily covered across all newsmedia."

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