When whites just don't get it, part 5

[gollygee]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/30/opinion/sunday/nicholas-kristof-when-whites-just-dont-get-it-part-5.html

WE Americans are a nation divided.

We feud about the fires in Ferguson, Mo., and we can agree only that racial divisions remain raw. So let’s borrow a page from South Africa and impanel a Truth and Reconciliation Commission to examine race in America.

(snip)

White Americans may protest that our racial problems are not like South Africa’s. No, but the United States incarcerates a higher proportion of blacks than apartheid South Africa did. In America, the black-white wealth gap today is greater than it was in South Africa in 1970 at the peak of apartheid.

Most troubling, America’s racial wealth gap, pay gap and college education gap have all widened in the last few decades.

[Number23]

1. "So let’s borrow a page from South Africa and impanel a Truth and Reconciliation Commission"

Holy crap. Just the thought of it....

The rioting in Ferguson would be absolutely dwarfed if this was even DISCUSSED as a possibility.

“In the jewelry store, they lock the case when I walk in,” a 23-year-old black man wrote in May 1992. “In the shoe store, they help the white man who walks in after me. In the shopping mall, they follow me.”

Here's the money quote: "My sense is that part of the problem is well-meaning Americans who disapprove of racism yet inadvertently help perpetuate it."

I absolutely agree.

[Warpy]

4. I hope I'm doing my small part

by speaking up and letting counter clerks know who was first in line.

If it's a black person, the jaw hits the floor. That is sad.

[LostInAnomie]

2. Fuckin' white people, amirite!?

[gollygee]

3. #notallwhitepeople

[LostInAnomie]

5. #racialbigotryiswrong

[gollygee]

6. There's no racial bigotry in this article

But I'll mark you down as one who doesn't get it.

[noiretextatique]

9. clearly, this person didn't bother to read the article

and just reacted, in a knee-jerk fashion, to the title. and, i must say: this is a huge part of the problem when trying to discuss race. put get focused on parsing title and parsing definitions, instead of anything substantive. and you always have to remember to qualify...it's not ALL white people. it is a tiresome tactic used to squash discussion.

[gollygee]

11. It even says "when"

so not only #notallwhitepeople but also #notallofthetime. The article couldn't possibly be more specifically not talking about every white person at all times.

I wonder about the psychology behind people thinking someone's always talking about them in articles like this.

[noiretextatique]

12. guilty conscience?

[LostInAnomie]

14. Yes, God forbid you have to tailor you language to not slur a whole race.

It's such a hassle to write "some", "many", or even not make racial generalizations at all.

[nomorenomore08]

21. Becausing having your feelings hurt is so much worse than facing discrimination on a regular basis.

[LostInAnomie]

22. I didn't realize we were in some kind of oppression olympics.

[nomorenomore08]

23. We're not. White people are not "oppressed" in this society, period. n/t

[LostInAnomie]

24. No, you're right. Feel free to continue to racially generalize them all you like.

Very liberal of you.

[nomorenomore08]

25. Look, I *am* a white guy, and I don't like negative broadbrushing any more than anyone else does.

But the problem with saying "some" is that every white person reading the statement then assumes it doesn't include them, and that therefore they have no responsibility to do something (however small or seemingly insignificant) about the problem. When in reality, each of us (especially as a self-identified liberal/progressive) has the obligation to try and make things better.

I understand being bothered by generalizations about "white people." I often am myself. But it's also us white people who need to take a hard look at things and actually try to do something about the problem of ingrained racism. People of color can't do it all by themselves - otherwise they would have already.

[The2ndWheel]

37. Obligation is a strong word

It's tough to obligate others to some social cause, and then chastise them if they don't live up to it. Especially if it's something as vague as just trying to make things better. There's no law requiring that of anyone, and everyone has their own moral standard.

Same thing with the word need. A strong word.

Start telling people they need to do something, or that they're obligated to do something not of their own choosing, and people start tuning out.

[nomorenomore08]

40. I don't know how else to phrase it, honestly. All I know is there's a serious problem in our society

and awareness is only the first step.

[LanternWaste]

29. You appear rather oppressed by this. It must be... horrible.

You appear rather oppressed by this. It must be... horrible. Good luck!

[Gormy Cuss]

26. #obtusenessisubecoming. n/t

[noiretextatique]

7. we actually need a truth and reconciliation commission

but it will never happen.

[gollygee]

8. Did you leave "never" out of your post

or are you optimistic?

Our country desperately needs some healing, one way or another.

[noiretextatique]

10. I DID

it will NEVER happen. but it would be great if Obama did this, like on his last day in office.

[KingCharlemagne]

15. We need more than merely a truth and reconciliation commission. Black

people's labor (and their lives) were stolen from them for 200-some years here, and native Americans' lands were stolen from them for 300-some years.

We need a serious conversation about reparations.

To put it in terms most should be able to understand: how many American fortunes are built on either the theft of labor (and lives) from blacks or on the theft of land from Native Americans?

We need a serious conversation about reparations. And, while we're at it, a conversaton about socio-economic based affirmative action.

[cpamomfromtexas]

19. How do you propose we pay for reparations?

[KingCharlemagne]

20. Expropriate the wealth of any individual with a net worth of more than

$1 million (excluding principal residence). Actually, though, 'paying reparations' can be as simple as making a deposit to bank account or debit card. I propose expropriating wealth to keep reparations from causing the deficit to increase.

[hack89]

28. How does a one time transfer of cash, no matter how much, change society?

I understand the rational behind reparations but I don't understand how giving AAs a shit ton of money will actually change things. It won't generate jobs or fix the education system.

[KingCharlemagne]

30. Well, a billion here and a billiont here and pretty soon we're talking some

real money!

No one ever said that reparations would 'change society' or 'fix' the system(s). Reparations is a necessary but not sufficient first step to healing the wounds inflicted by the past and repairing the grievous damaged done to the Social Contract. Is why I think we also need to have a discussion about socio-economic based affirmative action programs. I read somewhere that social mobility in contemporary America is now WORSE than it was in medieval England. That is some seriously scary and depressing shit.

Both of these (reparations and socio-economic based AA) are pipe dreams, my own set of hobby horses, I guess you could say, and ideas that have less chance of transpiring than the sun rising in the west and setting in the east.

[hack89]

31. Forcefully taking one groups money and giving it to another will not work

if the goal is to heal and change society. In fact it could make things a whole lot worse.

You are right on the money about socio-economic based affirmative action programs. That and meaningful Federal funding of the educational system would go a long way to making things better.

[KingCharlemagne]

32. All due respect, but the government 'forcefully' takes one group's money

all the time when it taxes; I happen to approve of that 'taking' but a 'taking' it is. Think of expropriation of assets as a one-time forceful 'tax' on (already accumulated) wealth and it won't seem like such harsh medicine.

I answered in response to the standard canard of "Well, how are you going to pay for reparations?" from someone else. The simple fact is that government could simply credit the bank accounts of eligible recipients with a given sum. Without expropriating wealth or using its taxing authority, such a move would of necessity 'increase the deficit' (another canard in the anti-reparations schtick). One can make an argument, however, that certain social goals, like healing the Social Contract, merit an increase in the deficit and the debt.

[hack89]

33. So how much per person?

and how do you deal with the resultant social and political unrest?

[KingCharlemagne]

34. Look, I've long been a proponent of a Guaranteed Annual Income for

every citizen and permanent resident, independent of his or her employment status or anything else.

The idea of society agreeing to pay reparations is FAR, FAR more important than the actual per-person dollar sum finally settled upon. It is a recognition by society that it committed massive wrong(s) and is now finally owning up and doing penance for the sins of the past that have led us to this pernicious present.

A program of reparations COMBINED with an affirmative action program based on socio-economic factors would go a long way, with the right moral and political leadership, to 'dealing with' social and political unrest. The only people to be injured by such a combination would be the upper 1%. And it's not like it's really going to even crimp their styles much anyway. But it might just offer American a path back from the moral abyss into which she finds herself staring right now (where 1% of the population controls as much wealth as the bottom 40% combined and the top 10% control as much wealth as the bottom 90% combined).

[hack89]

35. Income for every American is a good idea

it is not where the money is coming from that will cause unrest, it is who it is going to. You expect tens of millions of poor non-black Americans to watch billions of dollars being distributed without getting a dime and have them approve without complaint. Not going to happen. The first story of an affluent AA getting reparations and you will have riots.

[KingCharlemagne]

36. Needs to be sold in conjunction with a socio-economic based form of

affirmative action so that most people will feel they are getting a fair shake. Yeah, they may not get a demand deposit if they're not the victim of slavery or land theft, but they might get preference in government hiring if they're a 'poor, non-black American' (to use your language).

It would take real leadership to sell this. I don't think I could do it and keep my temper. But I'm confident that out there somewhere is another Martin Luther King, Jr. or Robert F. Kennedy who can make the case far better than I. It's a case that needs to be made, pipe dream though it may seem right now.

The French novelist Balzac once wrote that 'Behind every great fortune lies a great crime.' In this case, there are two crimes (slavery and land theft), the victims of which live amongst us. Time to make things right.

[Oktober]

39. No victims of slavery here....

... unless you can find someone who is in their early 140s.

(Actual illegal human trafficking aside of course)

[Oktober]

38. Oh... theft...

That was surprisingly straight forward...

[nomorenomore08]

41. But of course, the accumulation of great wealth is *never* theft, no matter how acquired...

[davidn3600]

13. So what exactly do you suggest we do about it?

Our mass incarceration is due to two things... war on drugs and minimum sentencing guidelines... two things the government seems very unwilling to change. You got a lot of people making a lot of money off our justice system because of this.

A growing wealth gap is a problem for all Americans. The gap between the rich and the poor is growing fast...among all races. Yes, it is worse with African-Americans because it was bad with them to begin with. So now it's gotten worse. But once again, our government has no intention of changing this. Too many people are making too much money off it.

The fact the Obama administration let Wall Street off the hook was very telling. The Democratic party isn't on our side when it comes to these matters. They will join the GOP and protect the 1% when push comes to shove. That's been proven time and time again.

[KingCharlemagne]

16. What do you mean by 'we'? You talk about the government

and the Democratic Party as 'they,' so who is the 'we'?

[davidn3600]

17. What are you talking about?

I say "they" because it certainly wasn't me that let Wall Street off the hook. The Democratic party leadership and the Obama administration did that. Is there debate about that?

"we" as in the American people got fucked.

[KingCharlemagne]

18. Sorry, didn't mean to come off as hostile. You asked what "we"

should do about it and I wasn't sure to whom that referred.

Now that we've (npi) cleared up that ambiguous pronoun issue, I must confess that I have no easy answers to your question. I'm a Socialist, so longer term, I would hope to see the problems to which you refer subsumed under a larger Socialist settlement. (Note that I'm staying deliberately vague as to the terms of that larger Socialist settlement, because there will need to be much dialogue and debate around its terms.)

Anyway, your question was and is a good one.

[Gothmog]

27. Good Editorial

[seveneyes]

42. Mugged by the title

Maybe this genius really only meant "some" whites, otherwise whites should simply get comfortable with it.

[gollygee]

43. Yeah we've gone through this in this thread already

Look up toward the top.

[seveneyes]

44. Understood and thanks, but the title remains off-putting

It's not like I'm going to ask a mugger what kind of mugging I'm in for. Only problems require resolution.