FFS Hillary, just bring back the $3 a day wage, pay docking, no overtime pay, 90 hour workweek

[Veganhealedme]

Walter Reuther didn't get bodyslammed on the concrete 7 fucking times while battling Ford Motor Company's KKK-backed "Service Department" while organizing a union drive at Ford in the 1930's..

JUST TO SEE DEMOCRATS FREE TRADE OUR MIDDLE CLASS TO CHINA TO KILL WAGES

Hillary, YOU are..

Pro $3 a day wage for us, the peon class

Anti-40 hour work week

Pro-wage-docking(fuck up on the job and your boss docks half your days paycheck)

Pro 16 hour workday

Anti-overtime pay

Anti-paid holidays and paid vacation time

Anti-OTJ safety requirements

You automatically take these stances when you advocate for free trade and outsourcing.

Hillary is ripping the Democratic Party apart because the Clinton's sold out the spine of the party, its middle class.

The ENTIRE purpose of free trade is to undo Walter Reuther's legacy of building America's middle class.

The Clinton's might be the worst thing that has ever happened to America's middle class.

[Thinkingabout]

1. And your link, looks like cognitive dissonance, you should check you facts before you rattle this BS

[Veganhealedme]

2. Tell me what I'm wrong about.. nt

[Thinkingabout]

3. I'll make it easy for you, all of it, now do you have a link for any of this.

BTW, do you work for FOX, they have some big stories but you have topped them.

[Veganhealedme]

4. I'll make it easy for you, Hillary is as anti-middle class as..

any Neocon.

She supports TPP, fast-track trade authority, outsourcing, exploitation of workers in low wage countries, sweat-shop labor and horrible working conditions..

Does it really need to be explained to you?

Snap out of your denial.

Do you even know who Walter Reuther is?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Reuther

[Thinkingabout]

6. Yes I know who Walter Reuther was, you are talking to a long time union member.

Let me lead you some a simple search on Hillary on the issues will provide information you need to read and I will supply the link.

http://ontheissues.org/hillary_clinton.htm

You may not know this but she came from middle class folks, Bill came from middle class folks, both were middle class folks until he left the presidency, yes she is for increases in the minimum wages, I feel sure you remember her fight in Congress after Bill was in office for health care, she was fighting for civil rights in her college days, she cares about women's issues not only in the US but worldwide.

Take some time to see where she is on the issues, it is very informative.

[billhicks76]

21. Hillary Is A Republican At Heart

I'm soooo sick of her.

[Thinkingabout]

33. You may be sick of her but she is left leaning Democrat. The truth is easier than trying to prop up

Hillary being a republican. She grew up with a republican father and democrat mother and before registering to vote she selected Democrat. That is how it is, no more, no less.

[Scuba]

46. Pro war, pro Wall Street, pro TPP, pro Keystone XL, pro H-1B visas. Yep, that's a left-leaning...

... in your alternative universe, maybe.

[Thinkingabout]

47. You have listed issues of which I like her stand, thanks.

I like to have a person as president, one who can make decisions as chief executive and will not run and hide behind a BS curtain.

Oh, BTW, she is for increasing the minimum wage, women's issues, LGBT issues, civil rights and on and on. Yes she would be a fine president.

[Scuba]

48. If you're pro war, pro Wall Street, pro TPP, pro Keystone XL and pro H-1B visas ...

... what are you doing on this forum?

If these positions are acceptable in the Democratic Party, then our tent is too big.

Being decisive - but wrong - is not an asset.

[Thinkingabout]

49. Maybe because I am a life long Democrat who looks deeper into the horizon.

Perhaps I think you are wrong, I am not a one or two issue voter and if the need to defend our country against those who wish to harm us is not a Democrat or Republican issue, it is an American issue. A president who runs as non interventions is saying they do not want the responsibility of being president.

You may not like Wall Street but it happens to be a part of out world, don't see a replacement coming.

[Scuba]

50. Thanks for letting us know where you stand.

[Thinkingabout]

51. You are welcome.

[rhett o rick]

65. Some times one issue is so big it drowns out all others. The decision to promote the

Bush lies and invade Iraq probably was the worst decision in our lifetime. That decision and the subsequent actions lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousands ruined the lives of millions. That decision has ruined our economy, our political system and our democracy. That can't be rectified by being on the correct side of a few other issues.

I am not confident at all that she would not make that mistake again. We need candidates that have integrity.

Your acceptance of Wall Street dominance as just "part of our world" really says it all. Save the status quo. Let the middle class die.

[Thinkingabout]

71. Just as you judge Hillary by one vote i also doubt Warren has what it takes to make a strong

Decision on a threat like ISIS, she was given a chance and she voted no and then came up with a lame Paul excuse. I have nothing but the best regards for the middle class. Do you think it is good to take tax subsidies from corporations who go off shore to prevent taxes? Would you like to see the corporations give back the Bush give away? Are you happy about the wage disparity of middle class and executives. Are you happy about the golden parachutes given to executives?

[rhett o rick]

75. I think you are having a perspective problem if you equate the IWar with the consequences of

Sen Warrens vote.

You said: "Do you think it is good to take tax subsidies from corporations who go off shore to prevent taxes? Would you like to see the corporations give back the Bush give away? Are you happy about the wage disparity of middle class and executives. Are you happy about the golden parachutes given to executives?"

I don't answer these questions of insinuation. If you have an argument then have the fortitude to state it as a statement instead of trying to manipulate me with questions.

The bottom line is that HRC stood before the Senate and repeated the Republican lies in an effort to sell the Iraq War. It was a very convincing speech, much better than any Republican. If you haven't watched, you really need to.

How can you support someone that helped the Republicans get us into the Iraq War. She proved that she has zero integrity. There are Democrats that have integrity.

[Thinkingabout]

82. Is this the best you have? Are you going to remain in the 2001-08 time and never move?

Out of all the votes why are you stuck on this one?

Well, okay, I am stuck on Warren's no vote on protecting this country from ISIS, ergo, she can not make hard decisions a president is required to make. This may be why she says she is not running.

[rhett o rick]

84. No, I have more. But HRC's choice to help Republicans (they are the enemy) promote lies that

were the biggest disaster in modern history, has to rank up at the top. How can you forgive that decision? How can you ever trust her again. Time does not heal that wound.

For emphasis I am going to repeat. H. Clinton helped our enemies (Bush and Cheney) kill hundreds of thousands and displace millions as well as destroy our middle class with trillions in dept. And you want to dismiss it.

Do you think that the Democratic Party is so bad off, so deplete in good people, honest people, people with integrity, that you have to support H. Clinton? You disparage Sen Warren as if that will distract from your choice of HRC. But once you start down that road, you have a lot of Democrats to disparage, a lot of good decent choices that are not the puppets of the MIC and Goldman-Sachs.

We need change and HRC does not offer that. She is Ms. Status Quo. Ms. 1%

[Thinkingabout]

86. I will take HRC, strong, decisive, experienced, not limited to certain subjects, world traveled, met

with many world leaders, this could go on and on. Hey be ready to take disparage of Warren, I am ready for disparage of HRC, I can take it. BTW get her record together, we will see how they match up.

[billhicks76]

120. Thinking About Not Listening To You

Your way of thinking is dead and over...we don't need listless, spineless so-called Liberals aiding and abetting the enemy. Goodbye.

[Thinkingabout]

121. Do whatever makes you happy, see ya.

I will remain with my opinion.

[Lancero]

70. That deep horizion you're looking at...

Is the bottom of a cliff.

Hopefully no one decides to push the middle class off it.

[rhett o rick]

85. It's not a cliff but a slope and the middle class is sliding down.

Pres Obama and the Congressional Democrats have not done much to even slow down the slide. HRC will also not halt the slide. I am not convinced she wants to. She is a tool of the 1%.

[Thinkingabout]

105. Since she has worked her adult life to help others,has fought for minimun wage increases,

Fought against violence against women, fought for education for women world wide, fought for civil rights, fought to withdraw subsidies for corporations, fought to take back the Bush tax cuts given to corporations, upset with the wage disparity. Upset with the golden parachutes, this is just a few. There are more and you say she not for the 99%, well you can't produce anyone who has these stands and say they not for these issues and they are on the side of the 99%.

[rhett o rick]

106. Those things are wonderful but she made a huge mistake. One that can't be reconciled.

Also, she takes money from Goldman-Sachs, most likely the most corrupt of the corrupt.

She is a war hawk and cozy with Wall Street. That's were we need change. How long do you think the strides we've made on social issues will last if we lose our Democracy. Goldman-Sachs and the Neocons aren't interested in the 99% therefore neither is their candidate HRC.

[Thinkingabout]

107. Ok I gotcha, one vote you dont like and they are out, I have the same priviledge,

Warren made a big huge mistake on her vote on ISIS, that can't be changed. You can deyermine future decisions by the past ones, Warren isn't up to be president

[rhett o rick]

108. Your perspective is way off. HRC's decision lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousands, destroyed

Iraq, and most likely destroyed America. And you try to brush it aside as "one vote". SHE PROMOTED THE WAR. SHE REPEATED THE BUSH LIES. SHE GAVE UP HER INTEGRITY.

[Thinkingabout]

124. And let let me remind you the current threat of ISIS is real, Warren has proven

She ran from one of the big responsibilities she would have as president and voted no on the ISIS Resolution. It is doubtful she would make the correct decision in the future, decisions which could result in many deaths around the world. Can you forgive her of thus bad decision? Where is Warren's integrity, where is her experience worldwide. This one vote by Warren and Bernie will surface over and over, it will not be forgotten.

[rhett o rick]

126. Your perspective is way off. nm

[billhicks76]

122. Total BS

Your wasting your time lying to everyone. Hillary is a shill for the .01% and basically a member if the Bush family. Go away.

[Thinkingabout]

125. Same BS, nothing new here.

[grahamhgreen]

61. Is she for or against the TPP, or NAFTA, or GATT?

[Thinkingabout]

62. Here is her stand on the issues

http://ontheissues.org/hillary_clinton.htm

[grahamhgreen]

63. Can't answer a simple question on policy positions? For or against?

[Thinkingabout]

64. I provided you the information available

If it is simple you may find the answer

[rhett o rick]

66. You don't like to discuss actual issues do you? I am guessing

that your stand on the issues is whatever her stand is.

[grahamhgreen]

74. Confusing. Explain it like I'm five years old:)

[truedelphi]

78. Would this help?

She will state that she is for any cause that she thinks will help her get votes so she is elected.

Once in office, she will adhere to the same game plan assigned to her by the Big Corporate Interests that kept her husband in front of corproate podiums where he made at least $ 100,000 per speech.

[grahamhgreen]

99. Got it! That's what i thought that blue link said;)

[rhett o rick]

67. Supporters are cautious to discuss actual issues in case they might say something counter

to their leaders stands. They choose to just point and say, "I'll have whatever she's having (eg. war, support for bankers, war, unregulated NSA/CIA, Patriot Act)"

[One_Life_To_Give]

109. She will check with Jamie Dimon and get back to you. nt

[truedelphi]

76. Thanks for your posts.

And I will vote for Hillary just as soon as she removes the "RodhamTheCorporatistToadie" from her middle name.

[Agschmid]

12. I don't even see a link, just crap.

[riversedge]

54. +1

[baldguy]

14. Some people never let the facts get in the way of a good RW lie.

[Luminous Animal]

41. Haiti and Honduras. Fucking racist policy. The "white mans burden" policy.

Both Hillary and Bill promote US policy as benevolent but it is slavery at its core.

[pampango]

5. We don't have 'free trade' with China unless we have a "NAFTA"

with China that I am not aware of.

Unless you are recommending a Cuba-style embargo against China, keeping them out of the WTO would have not changed anything.

[Veganhealedme]

7. Bubba's MFN status + Bush's tax cut incentives..

for "job creation" in China is what opened the door to China.

The prospect of low wages + tax incentive is what lured American factories to China.

Now that wages are rising in China, corps seek other low wage nations, hence TPP.

[pampango]

9. MFN led to China's entry into the WTO. Keeping China out

of the WTO would not have changed anything. Russia was not in the WTO back then and our trade deficit with them went up faster than with China. Perhaps you would prefer a total trade embargo with China.

[JDPriestly]

11. I would like provisions that protect high standards for workers in the workplace and equity

in the value of imports to the US with exports to a specific company.

Our trade deficit is criminal. -43030.00


US Trade Deficit Narrows in July
US trade gap decreased for the third straight month to USD 40.55 billion in July from USD 40.8 billion in June as exports rose 0.9 percent while imports grew at a slower 0.7 percent. Published on 2014-09-04

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/balance-of-trade

As we export money and import junk, we also lose skills, independence and our self-sufficiency.

This is shameful.

The extreme amount of trade we now have is very bad for Americans.

[pampango]

13. "The extreme amount of trade we now have is very bad for Americans."

Trade is a smaller part of our economy (22%) than it is in any progressive country - Germany (70%), Sweden (60%) or Canada (50%).

I think you could safely say that workers, unions and the middle class are stronger in those countries tha in the U.S.

[JDPriestly]

37. If you look at this chart, you will see that Germany, for example, has a trade surplus.

Germany exports more than it imports.

The US has a huge trade deficit. We are a larger country. But we are much smaller than China. And even China as poor as it is has a small trade surplus.

We have no business getting into more trade agreements that will result in still more imports than exports and an even higher trade deficit. This is not the time for it.

The chart that compares the trade deficits of various countries is here:

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/balance-of-trade

Go toward the bottom of the page. It lists deficits and surpluses by country.

[pampango]

43. Imports are 33% of Germany's economy; 13% of the U.S.'

And yet Germany's workers are better paid, their unions and their safety net and their middle class are stronger.

Germany has not achieved a trade surplus by importing less but by exporting more. (Exports are 40% of their GDP; our exports are 9% of ours.)

Is there some reason that we cannot export more? Our workers are paid less than German workers and our unions are, unfortunately, much weaker than German unions (the same "advantages" that China has over the U.S.).

Do we just not try to export because we are America? We are big, strong and exceptional and should not have to depend on "others" for anything? That is obviously not an attitude that Germans seem to have.

[JDPriestly]

57. We export less because we allowed our government and corporations to export our best

industrial jobs. We export food and arms. We don't export cameras and all the things that companies like Siemens, just to name one important German company exports.

We have a disorganized, dysfunctional industrial sector in our economy. We don't have strong trade unions (agree with you on that); we don't have a strong apprenticeship program for training young people who want to work in industry or engineering or even business.

I lived in Germany and Austria. They have a culture that respects work and that does not worship employers but rather appreciates the fact that employers and employees have to work together with a certain balance that improves the lot for both components in a business.

We have a workplace that is adversarial and in which employers view employees as potential troublemakers and not as allies in meeting business goals.

Take for instance the idea of exports. Do American manufacturers (those that still remain) think about not just their exporting market but encourage their employees to think about the possibilities of the company exporting products to other countries.

In large German companies, representatives of the employees sit on the board of directors and participate in some of the decision making. That makes it less likely that German industry will be bought and sold and that the best jobs will be exported or outsourced from under the employees that hold those jobs. Germany has all kinds of protections for the jobs of its workers. Education is varied. It isn't just a matter of getting an academic degree. Education that is not the traditional academic degree is more available and prepares students for their lives, not just for lives in academia that they don't want and will never have.

So the German export numbers are the result of social, political and cultural factors. We should learn more about what they do that works and start changing our workplaces.

We are losing out as a country. And the Republican ridiculously regressive views on economics are a big part of the problem.

[JDPriestly]

98. Canada has a small positive balance of trade. Germany has a big one.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/balance-of-trade

Swedish trade balance turned into a SEK 0.2 billion deficit in October of 2014 compared with a SEK 3.3 billion surplus a year earlier, as imports rose faster than exports.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/sweden/balance-of-trade

From the chart at that website you will see that Sweden usually has a positive balance of trade.

We also should have a positive balance of trade. The reasons that we don't have that run very deep in our society beginning with our lack of really good pre-school education through to our lack of a good safety net and our tax system and the poor training that the current American workers are receiving but most importantly to an insane trade policy.

One way a country can afford better education, etc. and a better safety net is to increase wages while imposing a VAT or value added tax. I believe that is what European countries do. That way the purchase of a product is the point at which taxes are collected. Therefore tax revenue can be somewhat maintained even though the high paying industrial jobs from which tax revenue can be obtained and domestic corporate profits that can be taxed are gone. Taxes can be charged on all products alike whether produced domestically or in another country.

That used to be a big part of the tax revenue in Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Value_Added_Tax

DUers object that the VAT is a regressive tax. It is, but if combined with a rise in the minimum wage and tying wages to inflation, the regressive nature of the tax can be ameliorated. That is especially true if the revenue from the VAT is solely used to improve the social safety net.

[truedelphi]

90. Totally agree with you JD Priestley. And on top of

Everything you mention - nothing you get from China works for more than a year.

I remember the last time went with my dad to help him pick out stuff for hisyard. We bought a hose, made in the USA, and he paid some $ 22. BUT the darn thing lasted twenty years.

Now I can go to any number of places and buy a similar looking garden hose, but it is made in China, so I only pay $ 8, and I am lucky if it lasts more than three months!

[JDPriestly]

96. Yes.

For future reference, one thing I failed to point out is that the competition from low-wage workers in other countries is a major CAUSE for the lack of successful union organizing in our country.

As far as manufacturing jobs are concerned, an employer who doesn't like having to work with a union can simply sell his company to someone who will ship the jobs overseas. There are various ways that an employer can do that and skip out on responsibilities here while getting a cut on the huge profit margins that making junk overseas and selling it at prices at which we should be getting quality products here. It's a very good deal for the employer and for the people who facilitate the deal.

[markme88]

56. Are you going to apologize for posting your Tea Party stuff from our last outsourcing debate?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5729833
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5733531

Are you going to answer my question?

Do you contend that US manufacturing employment has not been declining for the past 60-70 years? If so, please provide a link that backs up your contention

You now have the link. Do you concede that this is a Tea Party lie?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5735245

[RiverLover]

8. TPP & India

Trans-Pacific Partnership, Obama and HIllary Clinton Should Scare Hell Out of Progressives.
http://michaeledrake.blogspot.com/2013/12/obama-and-hillary-clinton-should-scare.html

Hilary's Biggest Challenge Isn't Just Bill's Outsourcing Record, It's Hers
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-white/hilarys-biggest-challenge_b_6175008.html

[peacebird]

52. +1000 good links, thank you. Esp the huffpo on outsourcing.

[RiverLover]

53. Thanks peacebird.

[truedelphi]

101. Thanks for posting this about Hillary and the TPP.

My spouse spent time in India lately, and he was amazed by all the many vegetables that exist in that country. So many small farms, with everyone who does not live in the cities growing food for themselves and others.

But Monsanto has a big foothold in India, and although most people do not know it, the USA has put an FDA office inside India! Probably to promote Monsanto!

I don't vote for anyone who promotes Monsanto and who likes GM foods. I already cannot eat wheat, if it is Round Up ready, and I shudder to think of what the future will hold for me as so many other foods are becoming GM-ed.

[JDPriestly]

10. K&R.

[RoccoR5955]

15. Oh come on, Clinton was the best RepubliCON president we ever had.

I am sure Hillary will do just as well, if not better.
Want a job, then move to China, where they all are.
sarcasm intended.

[Thinkingabout]

35. You must be republicon also

[RoccoR5955]

44. What makes you say that?

I was talking in sarcasm.
Clinton was one of the best presidents for the big businesses. Many moved overseas during his term, due to his policies.
I remember them taking apart the GM plant in Tarrytown, NY during his term, and word has it that they took it, and rebuilt it in Mexico.
This was because of policies that Clinton passed during his term.

[Thinkingabout]

45. If the Clintons are republicons and anyone who is to the right of the Clintons then the only

Ones left is far LW TP types.

[RoccoR5955]

59. Do you mean

By LW left wing, and TP toilet paper? I can't think of anything else that TP stands for. I find it quite offensive that you call the left wing toilet paper!!!!!

Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are to the left of Clinton. I could name at least a dozen others who are to the left of them, and are REAL Democrats.
Cllinton was one of the original third way fakers. They faked that they are on one side or another, but always cave in to big business.
They claim to compromise, but set their goals low, knowing that they will have to come up with a far more right wing no-capitalist version of what they were supposedly asking for the people.
I could name at least a dozen others who are more to the left of Clinton who are REAL Democrats. These third way folks are simply Democrats in name only, since they are so willing to give up the core values of the Democratic Party, in favor of compromise.

A good example comes from Obama, who would not require universal health care, but rather have everyone buy healthcare from insurance corporations. On the surface it may look like people are getting healthcare, but in reality, and in compromise, it became a handout to the health insurance companies.

I hope that people wake up, and see Hillary as what she is, a Democrat in name only, who was a Goldwater Girl, and a Republican. If people do not see this, they are doomed to suffer the same declining wages, and companies moving overseas that happened in the Clinton Era.

We need a large shift here. No more breaks for big businesses, reinstating tariffs, no more tax breaks for wealthy, taxes on wall street transactions. This is what is needed if we are to be a more fiscally responsible country, and not fall behind in so many ways. We used to be a leader in many social and technological developments. We are no longer that leader, because our government is run by folks who are only concerned with the bottom line, and not WE THE PEOPLE.

[Thinkingabout]

60. Do you have a source to provide where Hillary, Warren and Bernie stands?

Well if you don't I will help you see for yourself.

Hillary

http://ontheissues.org/hillary_clinton.htm

Warren

http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Elizabeth_Warren.htm

Bernie

http://www.ontheissues.org/House/Bernie_Sanders.htm

If you go to the end in each sight you will find a chart and guess what. Hillary and Warren are right together. Bernie is to the left more but too much for me.

Unless you have another link to verify your statement I will continue to use this one.

[RoccoR5955]

69. You use only ONE source?

Gee, talk about one-sided.
These are not different sites, this is ONE website. Look at their "about" page, and you will see where they get their "non-partisan" information. They get their info from right wing press media, "official" speeches, press releases, and the Internet.

They fail to specify, so I can only surmise that they get info from the right wing media, which is just about all of it in the US. They do not get their info from congressional records, or votes that these folks made. Votes are the real actions that people take. How many times has a politician said one thing than done another? They can say that they are liberal, but I have not seen Hillary at one anti-war, anti-fracking, or other demonstration. I have seen what her votes, and other actions have done.
Warren is very new, so I don't have much of an opinion of her, though what she has done recently shows promise.
I have seen Sanders at various demonstrations (the Climate March in NYC recently), and he has a longer record, so he is the one for me.

And hey, if Sanders is too left wing in his actions for you, than it seems to me that you are no more than a third way person.
I only hope that you see the light before it is too late for all of us.

I don't have a link to any one site where I form my views, because there is NOT one website. I look at a persons ACTIONS, compared to what is said, THEN, and only then, do I make my opinion.

[Thinkingabout]

73. Did you follow any of the sites to the end and see the chart provided?

Each site has a chart indicating their rating, quiet informative. BTW, a search on other potential candidates can be found by giving the name and including "on the issues", it is good reading.

[RoccoR5955]

94. I saw the chart

But I dismiss this as a SINGLE site. It is not from multiple sites. I know that they have "reports" of most any politician.
It is still only ONE source, and it is getting its information from the right wing media, which is another reason why I dismiss it.
Websites and what someone says is one thing, what they do is how I base my opinion.

[Thinkingabout]

102. Facts are facts, do you have proof these facts are incorrect?

[RoccoR5955]

103. Facts are

in the eyes of the beholder.
Actions, on the other hand, are generally out in the open, for all to see.

[Thinkingabout]

104. Exactly, they are out in the open, do you have any out in the open which are different?

Provide your link or links as you like to have.

[RoccoR5955]

110. I just keep track of their actions

by checking who voted for what on Thomas.gov
I also look at CSPAN and SEE what they are doing.

From time to time I have looked at Google's compilation of news, and looked at both American and non-American news sources.

I do not have any specific links. I do my own homework, and do not rely on others to do it for me.

[Thinkingabout]

113. Then if you keep up through these sources you would know Hillary's voting record

Is liberal and republicon title is not correct.

[RoccoR5955]

114. That is your opinion

She was my senator, and I saw some things that she has done, over time, like support Goldwater for president, which makes me not trust her.

[Thinkingabout]

115. Goldwater ran for president in 1964, she was not eligible to vote until 1968 and she voted Democrat

and she registered to vote as a Democrat. She may have worked for the Goldwater campaign in 1964 at a young age 16-17 but found she did not like the republican party before registering to vote.

What do you have against raising the minimum wage and tying it to Congressional wage increases?
What do you have against being upset at the disparity in wages?
What do you have against taking back the Bush tax cuts to corporations?

[RoccoR5955]

116. Oh...

I guess you were there to know that.
If she did not like the RepubliCON Party before she registered to vote, than why did she work for Goldwater? Why was she a member of the Young Republicans Club while attending Wellsley? She has even stated, in her own words, that she has "a mind conservative." In a college thesis, she criticized the tactics of Saul Alinsky.
She did support both Iraq wars. THAT is not a Liberal position.
I do not have anything against the things that you mention, but she is also in favor of trade deals which would ship more jobs overseas. I suppose you are against keeping jobs in the US.
She may be liberal enough for you, but she is far from liberal enough for me.
Still, if she ran against some teabagging right wing RepubliCON, I would be obliged to hold my nose and vote for her.
I would not work for her, as I did not work for Obama, but I voted for him. The alternative was simply not worth it.
I did vote for Kucinich in the primary of 2008, and shall vote for Sanders if his name comes up in a primary in 2016.

I see this country's politicians moving further and further to the right, and find this the absolute wrong way to go.
We have fallen behind other countries in so many ways by doing this.
We have to tax the rich, and provide for the less fortunate, while rebuilding our infrastructure, and protecting our environment at all costs.
I do not see Hillary's positions holding true to these points, so though she may come close, she does not win the cupie doll, of my vote in a primary. Again, if she is the candidate, I shall vote for her, but I shall not work nor shall I donate to her campaign.

[Thinkingabout]

117. How do I know these things, I research, I also know without thinking she was not

Old enough to vote in 1964, she was high school age, since the voting age was not changed until after she was 21 the first possible election she could got in was 1968. Hubert Humphrey ran as the democrat candidate in 1968.

She is more liberal on some things than I am but Bernie is WA too far left than I like so we can agree to disagree. One thing for sure she is on the left and deniers does not change the facts.

While she was on the Walmart board she pushed "Buy America" and it was a Walmart program at the time so to da she isn't for jobs in America is just not true.

[RoccoR5955]

118. Wikipedia is your friend. n/t

[Thinkingabout]

119. It is one source, in this case my caculator helped also.

[ReRe]

16. K&R

Sure sounds like a slave-driving vulture capitalist to me. I hope to God I don't end up in a position of having to vote for her.

[brooklynite]

17. If you try really hard, you can come up with a lot more baseless insults...

Maybe you can get some of the 17 million Democrats who voted for here last time to change their minds.

Let us know how it works out.

[Caretha]

18. I'm sure

the OP won't need to "Let us know how it works out"

It will be all over the news my dear.

[brooklynite]

19. You'll let us know when?

Since Clinton hasn't endorsed any of those extreme positions? It should be big news when she does....

[Caretha]

24. Where did I say

"I'll" let us know when? Where oh where in my post did I say that??

Since you seem clueless to how the government and national elections in the US work...I'll take a second out here to help.

First there are Democratic & Republican primaries with their hollywood style conventions. These are covered broadly by the national media....plus this is the time that all the big poll companies & all the new and upcoming poll companies get to keep everyone overly informed on what is going on and who is going to win according to their selected demographics and who is paying who to call it.

Next comes the national elections, when the primary winner chooses a running mate and now non stop media coverage and all the good little & big poll companies get to keep everyone overly informed on what is going on, according to their selected demographics and who is paying who to call it.

Then the big Bang O! We all get to Vote! Yippee!!! Billions & billions of dollars will be spent on useless tv/radio/internet on and on ad (no pun intended) nausem...and we will have a winner!!!

People will stay up all day & night watching the national news to see who wins the big Shebang!

If you pay close attention...you will be able to figure it out and the OP of this thread will not have to inform you.

[brooklynite]

26. And nowhere in that exciting tapestry of events will the claims in the OP be supported...

...even by Bernie Sanders.

[Caretha]

27. I get it

that you don't.

[sulphurdunn]

22. If 17 million people are wrong,

they're wrong. The number 17 million doesn't make them right.

[Veganhealedme]

25. Brooklynite, did 17m overcome Obama in the '08 primaries?

Hillary was once beaten by someone that ran on very prog themes. Obama was a virtual unknown when he announced his candidacy. Only die hard Dems knew who Obama was. And yet, he toppled the powerhouse Clinton machine in '08.

Hillary was beaten once, she can be beaten again. She's even more disliked by the Dem base now. I'm talking about voters. Progressives can hardly stand her.

Obama campaigned during the '08 primaries that he wanted to reverse outsoucing and bring factories home and that free trade had damaged America.

He was right, at least then.

Of course, today, he completely sold out with his support for TPP and fast-track.

[brooklynite]

29. With the exception of the Iraq war, name a progressive theme where Obama differed from Clinton...

...A lot of progressives projected their hopes on Obama, but his positions on taxes, the economy, and civil rights were pretty much the same as Hillary's.

And I agree that Hillary isn't a shoe-in, but I'm still waiting to see an explanation of how a self-avowed socialist beats her.

[JDPriestly]

38. Raising taxes on higher income earners to support Social Security.

That is a big area in which Obama and Clinton differed.

We still need to raise the ceiling on the amount of income subject to Social Security taxes. That is how we can strengthen that system. There really isn't any other way.

And having people save money cannot replace Social Security. I'm on Social Security and I know how necessary it is for most people of retirement age.

The Clintons are too close to a lot of people and interest groups that want to "privatize," that is steal the Social Security funds. The Clintons claim to support Social Security, but Google Pete Peterson and Social Security. Peterson is a friend of the Clintons in that the Clintons attend events sponsored by Peterson's organization which, among other things opposes Social Security or wishes to weaken it.

[truedelphi]

81. Liz Warren is a self-avowed socialist?

Wow I do learn something on DU every day.

[brooklynite]

83. I'm responding to the suggestion that Obama won based on "progressive themes"...nothing more

[rhett o rick]

68. Why don't HRC supporters ever speak to actual issues? nm

[truedelphi]

89. Because then they would look bad?? n/t

[rhett o rick]

93. Yes in some cases, but in other cases it's because they can't be certain where

the Pres stands, so they don't want to make the mistake of going the wrong way.

[99Forever]

20. +1,000,000,000,000

[woo me with science]

23. K&R Hillary Clinton for 2016 = a menace to human beings and democracy itself.

But that said, she's just one example of the corporate-purchased corruption that now infests the US government and has transformed it from democracy to oligarchy and even nascent fascism.

Our government is thick with corporate puppets now who are looting the wealth of America and systematically dismantling its democratic institutions for their One Percent Corporate Masters...corporate puppets in all three branches of government and up to and including the White House. Money floods Washington on both sides of the aisle, and our government and election systems themselves are being restructured to increase the influence of corporations while reducing ours.

If one puppet fails, there are many more waiting in the wings.

The problem is not individuals, but the systemic, monied corruption that sustains oligarchy.

Nothing is more important now than making sure that corporatists don't shove another Wall Street/Third Way Democrat down our throats as the 2016 Democratic nominee.

Once they've done that, they will have ensured continuation of this country's march into fascism no matter which candidate is elected.

[Veganhealedme]

31. +1000! I like the word menace! Too true. nt

[bhikkhu]

28. Can you cite any votes, written or spoken words or polices to back that up?

Whenever anyone tells me what a politician is thinking, its usually BS, right and left, unless backed up by words or actions.

[JDPriestly]

39. See post #30.

[bhikkhu]

42. I'd recognize that some criticism is fact-based, and centers on real issues

In my own case, I'm not concerned with GM crops; I think the science follows naturally from 10,000 years of human efforts to engineer better crops. I agree with her there.

I don't think we should have been involved in Honduras, so I disagree with that action. I don't know what we could or should have done in Syria, and I don't know that there was an actual solution there. I don't blame anyone involved for the current results - sometimes there isn't a good road forward at all.

On the broad issue of banking, I am not concerned there. One of Bill Clinton's famous quotes - "It's the economy, stupid" rings true. One of the main jobs of the administration is to keep a stable and growing economy (jobs and income, essentially), and a stable and growing economy is also a primary concern of the banking industry, and wall street. Interests coincide, and its part of the job. What must go with that are changes needed to reverse our income inequality problem, which is very necessary component to keep a stable and growing economy. She has been clear in supporting the president's efforts, and I believe she "gets it", as far as understanding the problem.

I'm not concerned with trade pacts; facilitating trade has been a job of the executive office since the country began. Krugman is right on the TPP - its not a big deal. NAFTA could certainly have been better, but at the time the thought was that we were transitioning by necessity from a production to a service based economy, as some other developed nations have. It sounds better on paper than it worked out, of course, but its a much different world now than 1993 in any case.

I'm not overly concerned with fracking (admittedly, an easy personal choice as it is not practiced in my region). Its part of the president's "all of the above" approach to energy. Its also a cleaner option than coal, ideally at least. Its a bridge, so to speak, to a less fossil-fuel dependant energy system.

I haven't been afraid of "neo-cons" for ages, that boat sailed and sunk.

I understand that my perspectives don't coincide with many here, but I don't see any reason not to vote for her. With that said, I would happily consider another candidate as well if one were more liberal and outspoken (which is why I voted for Obama twice, without regret). I'm keeping an open mind.

Thanks for directing me to "facts and quotes", btw - always appreciated.

[JDPriestly]

58. Lots of points. I won't address them all.

I agree. We should not have been involved in Honduras. But our involvement in Central America goes back to the Eisenhower era when we intervened on behalf of United Fruit in Guatemala. We haven't freed ourselves from that karma (if you want to call it that) yet.

Syria is a mess. More honesty from our government about just what we have done would be necessary before I could say anything definite. I have suspicions about what our role has been, but that is all they are. So I won't address that other than to say that we should be careful about getting involved in situations we don't really understand because just when we think things can't get worse than Assad, we get ISIS. And some of our "friends" may be supporting ISIS, so we have to be very careful about which "friends" we help out.

The Constitution gives to Congress the authority to print and value our coins or currency. What our banking institutions if any, should be was a subject of controversy beginning in the earliest history of our country. Adams, Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton and Washington kind of left the decision on the role of banks in our country to the future and to us. It was never really clear what way we should go. But if our government is of the people, by the people and for the people, it needs to play a major role in managing our economy.

For a long time, American banks have not acted in the interest of the American economy or people. As I often say, it is simply wrong that some ordinary person with very little education gets hauled off to court and maybe alternative sentencing or worse, prison, for fraud or forgery or shoplifting or petty theft while huge mortgage companies and banks operate a scheme of forging signatures on foreclosure documents and failing to comply with state laws about recording deeds and mortgages without a day in jail as well as all kinds of other misrepresentations and go scot frree. Something very, very, very wrong there. It's called corruption.

Every administration in recent years has taken campaign money from the banks and mortgage companies and the rest of the financial sector and closed its eyes to the malfeasance and crime perpetrated in that sector -- or most of that crime. That is simply wrong. (Do shoplifters and petty thieves need trade organizations and lobbyists? I hope you know I am joking. I am not trying to justify theft even if petty.)

And to nominate yet another mollycoddler of the banking and financial industry, yet another president who will fail to appoint a strong attorney general and other heads of agencies willing to regulate our financial sector is going to end badly -- could even end our country or at least impoverish it. On this basis alone, I oppose Hillary Clinton.

We need a president who will appoint people who will not necessarily be vindictive toward wealth but who will impose a sense of responsibility toward something other than just making themselves wealthy on our financial sector. All institutions and individuals who sell financial instruments of any kind to other people as a profession or on a wide basis should have a fiduciary duty and a duty of loyalty to the person they sell to and advise. They should have an obligation to be honest about what they think of the instruments they are selling. This is especially true of anyone selling instruments to a pension fund or a 401(K) fund.

In terms of trade pacts, our negative balance of payments is a heavy weight hanging over our heads. On the one hand, the fact that we can maintain such a negative balance says that our currency is respected and desired. On the other, the fact that we maintain such a negative balance says that our products are not respected or desired. In our effort to avoid becoming Communist and over rigid, we have become disorganized. Hey. Disorganization can result in a lot of creativity. Freedom is wonderful. But everything in moderation.

The economies in countries that export a lot like Germany are those in which there is a little more working together to set goals and more conscious direction at the government level than ours. The economies that are exporting like Germany or Sweden do not treat working people like dirt. They have the goal of producing products they can sell to others and don't just leave it up to good luck. Their export policy reaches into their social system -- their unemployment insurance, their financing of education, and their workplaces. Also they don't make it easy or desirable for companies to leverage buy-outs of the industry of their countries and just sell industries or major companies to other countries. (Our Maytag washers were fantastic when they were produced in Newton, Iowa. I bought mine used in 1985 and still have it. But where are Maytags produced now. I doubt that any Maytag bought today will be of the quality that mine is. Germany does well because its products are well made and reliable.)

"Free" trade has imposed a heavy debt burden, low wages and lower tax revenue from business profits in the US. All said and done, Americans have lost in the free trade game. A few very wealthy people have made out like bandits. That makes our economic statistics look like Americans are doing much better than we are. The reality is not good for most Americans. Walmart which specializes in selling imported junk to poor Americans is doing well. That is not a sign of prosperity. It is a sign of the economic desperation and paltry shopping choices that most Americans face.

I live in Southern California. I am very concerned about water. (We are due, finally, to get some rain this week.) Fracking is, as I understand it, not good for our water. I would like some transparency and better science on fracking. Same for GMOs. I like to garden, so I am concerned about the use of pesticides. We don't know what the long-range effects of pesticide use, much less GMOs, will be on our health. We may be playing with fire. What we need is good, independent science when it comes to thinks like fracking, GMOs, other chemicals and technologies. We don't get the independence in our science that we need. I don't know how we could, but we need to see whether there is a way. When I think about the mistakes our country made with regard to for example tobacco and asbestos, I think this is an area in which we need to find new ways to deal with the scientific review.

I don't think that Hillary Clinton is the person to lead the country in dealing with these problems. I think that she carries a lot of baggage. I was trained as a singer. I can hear emotion in voices maybe better than a lot of people. Her voice sounds bitter, sometimes arrogant. Her "laugh" or snicker will be a bigger problem than Dean's scream if I am not mistaken. I think she can be very sweet and fun, but that she also has a lot of pent-up anger in her. I think she really cares about women and children and, as a woman, I would like to see us have a woman for president for once. But I think that Hillary has too much going against her. She has too many personal and campaign finance ties to the financial sector. She is hated by many on the right and for no good reason. But if you think Obama has a hard time with the righties' completely unfair criticism of him, it will be much worse for Hillary Clinton. And then, I don't think she will support good policies in many of the areas I discussed above.

I have been reading about Teddy Roosevelt recently. He was a man born into wealth, but also with an extraordinarily optimistic, ebullient, energetic soul. I would like to see us have a real fighter for, as Teddy Roosevelt might say it, "virtue" in the White House. In some areas, Hillary Clinton could be that. But she is not the optimist and fighter that we need now. I think that Elizabeth Warren would be that optimistic fighter who just never gives up. Teddy Roosevelt had asthma as a child. It was quite serious. Yet he forced himself to work out, climb mountains and explore the wilderness. He was not a complainer. We need a president with that energy. I am not claiming to agree with all of Teddy Roosevelt's views on issues. But we need a president who speaks strongly and courageously for the people and is not intimidated or controlled by wealth. I do not think that Hillary Clinton is that person. Certainly not a one of the Republican potential candidates is at all qualified. I like Elizabeth Warren. I think Bernie Sanders also has the character to ignore the personal criticism and represent and fight for ordinary people. If we don't get a president who will energetically fight for ordinary people, I do not think our country will do at all well in the future. I know that Hillary Clinton would like to be that kind of a president, but I really don't think she can. She owes too many political debts to those who are bringing our country down.

Sorry for the long, long rant. But you raised a lot of important issues. Thanks.

[lumpy]

91. I agree with the points you have made here.

[woo me with science]

30. Nothing is more important now than stopping Hillary and

any other corporate-purchased Third Wayer in a Democrat suit from being shoved down our throats as the 2016 Democratic nominee. If they can do that, they've ensured that the One Percent keeps right on eating us all alive, no matter which side wins.

Hillary Clinton's leading role in drafting the TPP
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101667554

Hillary Clinton and Trade Deals: That “Giant Sucking Sound”
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016101761

Hillary Clinton Cheerleads for Biotech and GMOs
http://www.democraticunderground.com/112772326

Dissecting Hillary Clinton's Neocon Talking Points - Atlantic Interview
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017209519

NYTimes notices Hillary's natural affinity toward the neocons.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025205645

Hillary Clinton, the unrepentant hawk
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024876898

More from Hillary Clinton's State Department: The fascistic TISA (Trade in Services Agreement)
http://m.thenation.com/blog/180572-grassroots-labor-uprising-your-bank

How Hillary Clinton's State Department sold fracking to the world
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251376647

Hillary Clinton Sides with NSA over Snowden Disclosures
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101695441

On the NSA, Hillary Clinton Is Either a Fool or a Liar
http://m.thenation.com/article/180564-nsa-hillary-clinton-either-fool-or-liar

Corporate Warfare: Hillary Clinton admits role in Honduran coup aftermath
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025601610#post29

The Bill and Hillary Clinton Money Machine Taps Corporate Cash
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025189257

Hillary's Privatization Plan: TISA kept more secret than the TPP
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014829628

Hillary Clinton criticizes Obama's foreign policy 'failure'; strongly defends Israel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014867136

Some of Hillary Clinton's statements on Social Security.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024379279

Hillary Clinton's GOLDMAN SACHS PROBLEM.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025049343

Ring of Fire: Hillary Clinton - The Perfect Republican Candidate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017209285

How Americans Need Answers From Hillary Clinton On TPP, KXL, Wall St & More
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017181611

Hillary Clinton Left Out By Liberal Donor Club
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025809071

Why Wall Street Loves Hillary
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016106575

Hillary Clinton: Neocon-lite
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101684986

Interactive graphic of Hillary Clinton's connections to the Forbes top 400 (Follow link in post)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025824981#post9

[Thinkingabout]

34. Nothing new here

[JEB]

40. Thanks for posting that compolation

of important and informative links. Every voter should spend some time with these.

[brooklynite]

72. Of course, you won't be doing this...

..."stopping Hillary", which means convincing another candidate to run and then helping them to overcome the immense difference in fund raising ability and political support will be hard work. It'll be much easier to write some more complaining blog posts.

[truedelphi]

79. Great information trove.

Thanks for assembling it.

[peacebird]

88. Thank you for posting these links. Would you please consider posting an OP with them?

[joshcryer]

92. Get to work.

Good luck.

[SidDithers]

32. livingwagenow, Union Yes...nt

Sid

[Thinkingabout]

36. When you don't have facts then do like the RW does, make some of your own, FOX news training.

[riversedge]

55. Outright lies like the OP does not do Democrats proud.

[RedstDem]

77. its funny too, the hillbots are already measuring the curtains in the oval office.

They think a hilliray presidency is a forgone conclusion, lol.
Hillary can't even beat jeb, much less an actual republican, she's not going to beat them at their own game.
I don't care what the polls say, they're wrong this far out.

[True Blue Door]

80. Careful now, they'll hide your thread for dissing Madame Nixon.

Tell the truth, get the hose.

[doc03]

87. I would rate Ronald Reagan as being a little worse, just a little.

[Ken Burch]

95. I get your anger,but what do you base the numbers and work rules in you OP on?

If your point is that those are the conditions trade deals create in other countries(and would ultimately create here) you need to specify that.

I'm guessing that's what you meant, but not sure.

[liberal_at_heart]

97. K&R. You cannot support free trade agreements and worker's rights at the same time.

That's the problem. The Democratic Party has completely abandoned the American worker.

[LostInAnomie]

100. Is it stream of consciousness time!?

Indiana is shaped like a foot.

Feet wear socks.

Socks are made of wool.

Wool comes from sheep.

So does mutton.

Man, I could go for some Lamb Rogan Josh.

I love Indian food.

India is a potential member of the TPP.

Fuck that DINO Hillary!

_________________________________

How did I do?

[SidDithers]

112. You win the thread...

Sid

[BootinUp]

111. This is some kind of fantasy orgasm post!

Good job!

[Recursion]

123. TPP is deliberately designed to exclude China

That's its whole point