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Mon Dec 1, 2014, 04:51 PM

We slam people at F.R. for "groupthink," and in doing so, shouldn't accept it here.

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by cyberswede (a host of the General Discussion forum).

I've been silent, for the most part, on the Michael Brown / Ferguson situation, because when it comes to my thoughts on the subject, I break ranks with the vast majority of what I have seen on DU.

That's my right.

That's DU's right.

And I'm not going to spell out how I feel about it all...suffiice it to say that the majority of DU looks at it one way and I look at it another.

The other day I posted Pharell Williams' thoughts on the subject...WITHOUT COMMENT...and some fucking dirtwad stepped up and called me out over my "increasingly cringe-worthy" posts. Well, ya know, FUCK him, because he is now on my ignore list. Just go through the Kama Sutra page by page and FUCK this guy with what you see.

I have my opinions. Michael Brown is not my dashboard Jesus, and there is NO WAY IN HELL I can sign off on assholes on the streets of Ferguson burning down businesses that the owners have sacrificed EVERYTHING for. Blocking freeways and keeping innocent people from getting to and from work will NEVER get a high five from me. NEVER.

In short, there are people who are on board with the consensus on DU when it comes to certain issues, and people who are not.

When it comes to Michael Brown, with all due respect to the majority on DU, I am not with you.

And I am CONFIDENT that DU...being the HOME of progressive thought on the Web...will respect my desire to keep my opinions to myself and my mouth shut.

OR, the people who need to be "right" will have their say.

Either way, I'm not with you on this, folks. Respectfully so.

37 replies, 2527 views

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 37 replies Author Time Post
Reply We slam people at F.R. for "groupthink," and in doing so, shouldn't accept it here. (Original post)
Miles Archer Dec 2014 OP
el_bryanto Dec 2014 #1
Scootaloo Dec 2014 #2
IdaBriggs Dec 2014 #11
1000words Dec 2014 #3
kcr Dec 2014 #4
NRaleighLiberal Dec 2014 #5
Dreamer Tatum Dec 2014 #13
Kingofalldems Dec 2014 #15
NRaleighLiberal Dec 2014 #19
Dreamer Tatum Dec 2014 #21
Kingofalldems Dec 2014 #26
uppityperson Dec 2014 #29
pkdu Dec 2014 #36
LanternWaste Dec 2014 #18
arcane1 Dec 2014 #24
NRaleighLiberal Dec 2014 #33
arcane1 Dec 2014 #6
CBGLuthier Dec 2014 #7
Gidney N Cloyd Dec 2014 #8
Starry Messenger Dec 2014 #16
NYC_SKP Dec 2014 #9
snooper2 Dec 2014 #10
LostInAnomie Dec 2014 #12
A HERETIC I AM Dec 2014 #22
HERVEPA Dec 2014 #35
LanternWaste Dec 2014 #14
uppityperson Dec 2014 #34
Oktober Dec 2014 #17
A HERETIC I AM Dec 2014 #20
HERVEPA Dec 2014 #30
Post removed Dec 2014 #23
notadmblnd Dec 2014 #25
cali Dec 2014 #27
upaloopa Dec 2014 #28
Ykcutnek Dec 2014 #31
Post removed Dec 2014 #32
cyberswede Dec 2014 #37

Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 04:55 PM

1. So you want the right to keep your opinions to yourself and posted a long post in

defense of your right to silently disagree?

I might be missing something.

That said - people were understandably upset about the Ferguson verdict - you might agree with it, but many many didn't - and passions ran pretty high for a while. You kind of have to be tolerant in that situation in my opinion.

Bryant

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 04:55 PM

2. Don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel

 

And then, when you're done ranting and pounding your chest and gnawing your keyboard... multiply that by about a thousand, and you might start getting a bare understanding of how people feel about not just Ferguson, but the entire structure of abuse and miscarriage of justice aimed at brown people in this country.

if you don't want to get it, that's fine, you have a right to remain ignorant. But if you want to belittle it, the rest of us have a right to chew you over because of it.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:05 PM

11. ^--- THIS.

 

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)


Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 04:59 PM

4. What is it we should't accept?

You can post anything you want, and anyone else has the right to say what they think about it. It just so happens that a lot of people will disagree with you? Boo hoo.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:00 PM

5. So you are basically against any civil disobedience to influence change if the powers that be are

ignoring the civil rights of a particular group of people? Gandhi's actions? MLK and the Civil Rights movement?

Just curious. I respect your right to disagree, but I do not think you are seeing group think - I think you are seeing a clear difference of view.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:07 PM

13. Can you link to the stores MLK burned down?

Didn't catch that.

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #13)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:09 PM

15. How about discussing things instead of constant sarcasm?

Or are you here for some other reason?

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Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:10 PM

19. thank you.

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Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:13 PM

21. The retort to the OP wasn't discussion

it was a logical fallacy.

I replied in kind.

Burning and looting are what the OP seems to not like. The reply seemed to imply that civil disobedience entails
only those things.

Which brings me to my request: can someone show me the stores MLK or Gandhi destroyed?

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #21)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:16 PM

26. You didn't reply in kind. You replied with another

passive aggressive insult.

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #21)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:21 PM

29. Speaking of logical fallacies, who is doing this...?

What DUer says "Michael Brown is [strike]not[/strike] my dashboard Jesus, and there is [strike]NO[/strike] WAY IN HELL I can sign off on assholes on the streets of Ferguson burning down businesses that the owners have sacrificed EVERYTHING for"?

Who is calling Michael Brown their dashboard Jesus? Who is supporting burning down businesses? The OP is saying many of us here are and I'd like to see proof.

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #21)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:25 PM

36. Perhaps you skipped over this part of the OP in your rush to reply...

Blocking freeways and keeping innocent people from getting to and from work will NEVER get a high five from me. NEVER.

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #13)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:10 PM

18. Creative and imaginative inference...

Creative and imaginative inference... regardless of lack of validity, or whether it was caught or not.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:15 PM

24. I read the OP as being against specific types of disobedience.

 

If they are against ALL civil disobedience, then I am mistaken.

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Response to arcane1 (Reply #24)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:22 PM

33. that's what I am trying to find out

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:00 PM

6. It seems everyone agrees with the cause of the protests, but not on all the tactics.

 

I would have hoped that would a an agree-to-disagree situation, but those are becoming more and more scarce

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:03 PM

7. You might want a little bit of this

to go with your whine


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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:03 PM

8. Those times when you do agree with the majority of DU... is it still 'groupthink?'

Or did we all arrive at our shared, well-considered opinions separately?

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Response to Gidney N Cloyd (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:09 PM

16. +1

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:04 PM

9. I wouldn't broadbrush all members of the DU community this way.

 

I've been on a whole bunch of juries, though, trying to ban people for saying that Brown should have (fill in blank).

Regarding Pharell's statement:
"It looked very bully-ish; that in itself I had a problem with," he said. "Not with the kid, but with whatever happened in his life for him to arrive at a place where that behavior is OK. Why arenít we talking about that?"


I would strongly agree with this part: "Not with the kid, but with whatever happened in his life for him to arrive at a place where that behavior is OK."

But I would not expand it to any kind of statement that blames the victim. Wilson was a crazed individual with a hair-trigger temper.

It's no secret that kids of all colors might challenge authority for any number of reasons, if cops can't handle that then they should go into warehouse work or become a fluffer in the porn industry.

DU is a place where pushback can come at any time, you need a thick skin.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:05 PM

10. "not my dashboard jesus" ROFLMAO

 

I am so using that thanks!

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:06 PM

12. One of my big gripes with DU...

... is that we are a gigantic echo chamber that isn't aware we are one. The jury system and MIRT has only made this worse, because it systematically weeds out people with differing opinions and sets up a barrier for entry for any new-comer.

The days immediately following the Darren Wilson acquittal were a perfect example of this. Juries were banning anything that didn't follow the group-think, but DUers calling other DUers "racist" was widely accepted. It was pretty shameful in my opinion.

DU used to have a lot of different voices and there used to be a lot of good an interesting dialogue on here. Anymore it is a bunch of people agreeing with each other and alerting on anyone that disagrees.

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Response to LostInAnomie (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:14 PM

22. ......

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Response to LostInAnomie (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:24 PM

35. MIRT gets rid of people who violate rules and trolls. It does not weed out differing opinions.

 

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:09 PM

14. I guess there are half-wits who see the choice as either business burnings or "dash-board jesus"

I guess there are half-wits who see the choice as either business burnings or "dash-board jesus".

Not that you're a sub-literate, under-educated halfwit by any means-- merely that you're implying the fallacy of the false choice, projecting that onto DU members, and then create a wonderfully imaginative cross from which to martyr yourself by afterwards.

Quite the win win for you...

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #14)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:23 PM

34. It's that old dichotomous thinking again. It is amusing to see it so proudly proclaimed though.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:10 PM

17. Your confidence is misplaced...

 

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:13 PM

20. Results of the alert on this OP;

On Mon Dec 1, 2014, 03:56 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

We slam people at F.R. for "groupthink," and in doing so, shouldn't accept it here.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025895731

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This post crosses the line by saying this about a fellow DUer (even though unnamed), "and some fucking dirtwad stepped up and called me out over my "increasingly cringe-worthy" posts. Well, ya know, FUCK him, because he is now on my ignore list."
The poster's point could easily be made without attacking another DUer - this isn't a constructive way to start a dialog, and I wonder if it's intended to start a flamewar.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Dec 1, 2014, 04:07 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: To the alerter; Blah, blah, blah, blahdy blah, blah.

Jesus H Christ on a pogo stick juggling chainsaws.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No call out by name, and I agree with the poster on almost all points. Expect it to be hidden though.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Answer this in the thread. Not hide worthy.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Rude, even for an Internet board.

I was Juror #1. You are free to hold any opinion you care to.

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Response to A HERETIC I AM (Reply #20)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:22 PM

30. Ridiculous. He told another poster to go Fuck Himself and it stays.

 

Sorry, this jury system sucks. Either jurors don't bother to read the whole thing or ....

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)


Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:16 PM

25. Now that's a funny post

Not funny haha, just incredibly hypocritical and contradictory.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:18 PM

27. I do respect your desire to keep your opinions to yourself.... if only you had.

 

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:21 PM

28. Why do you need to tell us this?

You won't give your opinion? You just did.
I don't care what you think. You don't make up the people who will get change.
It takes getting into the people's faces to make change.

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:22 PM

31. ...

 

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Response to Miles Archer (Original post)


Response to Miles Archer (Original post)

Mon Dec 1, 2014, 05:26 PM

37. Locking.

"Disruptive meta" is counter to the GD statement of purpose.

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