Bernie Sanders: Do you know why millions of our people are stressed out?

[Playinghardball]

[bigwillq]

1. Yup

K and R

[taught_me_patience]

2. Maybe they should save more?

There has to be some level of personal responsibility in this right?

[Drale]

3. How do you save more

when your entire check is gone on surviving?

[TheNutcracker]

6. exactly. wages stagnent for over 30 years now.

[taught_me_patience]

13. Real wages are stagnant

nominal wages are increasing with inflation.

[aggiesal]

37. Your right, nominal wages are increasing ...

The nominal wage is the wage measured in money (dollars in the United States).
The real wage is the nominal wage in an economy adjusted for changes in purchasing power.

So, it looks like real wages are what we feel, because it determines what we can afford to buy
from year to year, which makes it more important then nominal wages.

In the graph below you'll notice that since 2000, nominal wages have gone up 25.2%, but
real wages have gone down 7.9%.
I interpret that to mean that, if I'm living paycheck-to-paycheck, and even though I'm making more money than 2000,
in 2013, I would not be able to pay my bills, because inflation has grown faster then my pay raises.

My wife hasn't had a pay raise in 5 years. Not even cost of living adjustments (i.e. inflation)!



So yes, it is harder to save money, when you have none to save at the end of the month.

Let me know if I misinterpreted.

[taught_me_patience]

53. You are correct. The last five years have sucked for wages

That has been a factor in the low savings rate over the last several years. We have to be cognizant that we're coming off the worst financial disaster since the great depression. These things take a long time to recover.

[Live and Learn]

90. Hmm, the .01% seems to have recovered X 1000 from all the charts I have seen.

And since there is a limited money supply, I assume that means there is a whole lot less for the rest of us to share.

Your posts on (at least) thread are condescending and self-righteous. I just wanted to make sure you are cognizant of that fact.

[drynberg]

99. Not correct, in 40 years workers as an average have LOST $, bigtime...look it up.

[ProfessorGAC]

107. Sort of Both, Patience

Nominal growth has been lagging behind total inflation (includes energy and food).

So, real wage growth has been negative for a large segment of the population.

Also, even if not for that, should the aggregate be stagnant, and there is a distribution of wage earners, by definition, some staistically relevant segment has to be falling behind.

I think it's more than a mere slice, but even if you ignore the information earlier in the post, it still means a lot of people are going backward.

Even if it's 10%, 10% of 100 million wage earners is a lot of families.

[volstork]

20. THIS ^^^^

[hfojvt]

48. is THAT really true of 50% of the population

I personally find that hard to believe, even though it is not popular to say so.

My wage income over the last decade is about $170,000 or about $17,000 a year.

That's a pretty low income, isn't it?

Yet
a) I have been able to save
b) even if I had not, my lifestyle is a fair ways higher than "bare survival"

let me count some of the extras in my life

1. a collection of DVDs, videos, and CDs
2. at least $2,000 worth of books
3. high speed internet
4. two desktop computers
5. 5 laptops
6. genealogy service (has cost about $2,000 over the last decade)
7. three dogs
8. member of Kiwanis (has cost me about $5,000 over the last decade (mostly for meals))
9. I probably spend $500 a year just on pringles and pop
10. probably $10,000+ given to various charities over the last decade

none of that is required for survival, although I have decided that I want them, and can afford them and still save. I doubt if I am the biggest spender when it comes to non-necessities either. Here, for example, are things I see other people spending money on, where I do not.

1. cell phones
2. cable TV
3. eating at restaurants
4. automobiles - I spent much of the last decade walking and riding my bike (and yes, I know, that is NOT an option for everyone, but it could be an option for more than exercise it, I would guess)
5. rent - this is a circular problem, because people don't save, they cannot put a downpayment on a house, which means they are spending much more for lodging. The small house and small yard next to me rents for $500 a month. I pay about $100 a month (because my house is fully paid for). Plus there seem to be many urban areaas where housing/rent costs are ridiculous.
6. multiple kids. Two of my co-workers, for example, each have five kids. I like the idea of having kids but I would have gotten a vasectomy after three.
7. credit card interest - some people actually pay this. Me, I get cash back, perhaps $40 a year.

In other ways, savings pays. Putting $3,000 into an IRA, for example, will save me about $700 in taxes, or more. So I always take advantage of that, even at my income.

So much of the country is making more money than me, I find it impossible to believe that they CAN'T save or that they are only "surviving".

[SheilaT]

86. Thank you.

Many years ago, Life Magazine did a piece profiling some ordinary man who was saving some $2,000/year, and stocking up on non-perishable foods, just in case. He was not a survivalist, just felt he ought to do that kind of stocking up. This was, as I recall, in the late 1960's, and he was saving a significant percentage of his income. I don't recall what he did for a living, or anything else about him, but what I remember most from the article was that he said, in connection to saving as he was, to remember that there was always some guy down the street who's living on a couple of thousand dollars a year less than you are.

While we all have different needs and different circumstances it does seem as if a lot of people make poor financial decisions.

Take cars. I've heard more than one story of a person getting into a car wreck, their car is totalled and, guess what? They owed more than the car was worth, so now they have no car but still have a car loan to pay on. Oh, and now they need a replacement car.

Or eating out. Yeah, I do know how frazzled everyone can be after a full day at work, but really, fixing meals at home really is cheaper and often is a lot faster than eating out.

Or student debt. It's not the end of the world to start out at the local community college and then transfer to an in-state university and exit school with little or no debt. For those who can get a full-ride scholarship to Harvard, my hat's off to you. But for normal kids, and especially their parents, be realistic and don't take on debt.

Or supporting adult children. I know way too many people who do that. If you're over 21, you're on your own. Work, do without, save, but don't expect your parents to help out.

I was a stay at home mom, which meant we had less money coming in than most of my husband's co-workers. But we had fewer expenses, also. I recall being at a company picnic, where one wife -- who worked -- was expecting their third child in as many years, and was complaining that the cost of day care once the new baby arrived would be more than she made. I suggested she stay home for a while, and everyone looked at me as if I had suddenly started speaking Martian. Sometimes it does cost more to work than to stay home, but if you're building a career you love, the equation will be different.

Not spending windfalls. All the years we were married, my husband's parents gifted us with money. We never spent that money, but invested it. It might have been nice to buy a bigger house, to have newer and fancier cars, or to go on more exotic vacations. But we didn't. It's a matter of deferred gratification, which is incredibly hard for many people. But it was well worth it.

[redruddyred]

104. your perspective on students loans is wildly unrealistic.

tuition in my state is over 16k a year. when I lived in texas it was much better, but still unrealistic considering my wages at my last job were below what I needed to survive.

what was killing me was a (not expensive) medical condition; again, I repeat, not expensive, but docs have important cadillacs to pay down. not being able to access social services was the biggest killer of all: often I've needed a docs note to get stuff like... food... but they are unwilling to help me as they consider me an undeserving candidate. of course I had to pay for those visits too.

no I'm not bitter.

[SheilaT]

110. I don't think my perspective on student loans is wildly unrealistic.

What is wildly unrealistic is kids go off to an expensive, prestigious school, borrowing all four years, majoring in some completely impractical field, and then being surprised to graduate with 80k in debt and no job prospects.

I more than sympathize about having a medical condition, whatever it may be. As a student, and in a low-paying job, if you weren't eligible for Medicaid (or its equivalent) in your state, you need to blame your governor and state legislature for that.

It can also make more sense to work full time and go to school part time. Yeah, it takes longer to graduate that way, but it's possible to have little or no debt. Student loans are totally voluntary, quite unlike most medical expenses. You absolutely need that medical care. You don't absolutely need to go into serious debt for school. Again, starting out at a junior college can be the best way to go. Live at home, unless that situation is truly toxic. Consider some sort of vocational certificate or training. The junior colleges are exceptionally good at these things. You can always take classes in fascinating topics later on. I've done that. Or you can read a lot, or take various adult ed classes. I've also done that.

Of course, the schools themselves have a lot of responsibility since most of them don't seem to spell out very explicitly just how much those loans will cost in the end. If they did, maybe far fewer kids or their parents would borrow.

I am very aware of how much more expensive school, even public schools, even my favorite community colleges, are these days. Back when I first went off to college, at least in Arizona where I lived, a summer job, if you lived at home and saved most of your minimum wage paycheck, was enough to cover basic school costs, tuition and fees. It wouldn't cover a dorm and meal ticket, but those things weren't as pricy, either. We older folks were lucky, and I try to remember that. But I do think people today are far too willing to take out loans for school than they should be. I often have conversations with parents just beginning this process with their oldest kid, and I try to get them to understand the ramifications of all this. I'm not sure I get through to very many.

[redruddyred]

111. I think that you are wrong. in fact I know it.

unskilled laborers (ie students) are lucky if they can get one part-time job never mind two = 40 hours a week. still this is not enough to pay bills. and if you work, and let your job become anything but your priority, you're out of there.

I have done junior college and technical school, and am still waiting for this to materialize into an opportunity -- at least one which I couldn't have had already as a high school grad. meanwhile although my grades and test scores are excellent, I cannot go onto four-year university; even if tuition were covered (for me, perhaps it might be) I don't have enough time between being sick and studying to hold down a full-time job. or even a part-time job, as I was deemed ill enough for disablity payments.

medicare still requires copay. & premium. yes, this is the republicans' fault, but so are a lot of things.

the tuition situation is simply impossible now. even if I weren't ill in the first place, I would have completely ruined my health by now with the herculean effort required to study and support myself at the same time. most kids in my position don't even bother.

[daleanime]

92. Dear Lord, how could I've been so blind.....

the answer to our Nations problems is to, again, expect more from those who have less. Even as wealth and power settled into hands of the .1%......

[hfojvt]

108. who has "less"?

I am expecting more, myself, from those who have MORE. More than me anyway.

As for the 0.1% having all the wealth and power.

According to the 2011 census of wealth 6.75% of American households have more than $836,033 in net worth. Subtract the 0.1% from that group gives us 6.65% of 118.69 million households with AT LEAST $800,000 in net worth. That's $6.3 trillion in wealth for that group.

Or consider the 19.35% who have more than $250,000 in net worth (and less than $836,033), they have at least $8.4 trillion in combined net worth.

I think those people have some wealth and power.

One somewhat amazing fact is that 8% of those in the HIGHEST income quintile have negative or zero net worth. Yet they make more money than 80% of their fellow Americans. Probably they are lawyers and doctors who are just starting out and have lots of school debt. After all, in 2002 67% of those with zero or negative net worth - were under age 45 and 43% were under age 35.

[Initech]

4. American CEOs make 475 times what the average employee makes.

Explain to us how we're supposed to save money when we take home $1000 paychecks that are supposed to last us two weeks when they make $1,000,000 paychecks? What are we supposed to do? Eat top ramen every meal? Stay at home on weekends?

[MANative]

5. You just forgot the "sarcasm" smilie, right?

Otherwise, you might be in the wrong place.

[HappyMe]

9. Save more?

Most people I know fling money away on completely frivolous things like rent/mortgage, food, transportation to work, utilities....luxuries like that.

[Orrex]

10. All they need is a little bootstrapping

Amirite?

[taught_me_patience]

15. Probably creating a budget

taking a good look at where to cut, making a plan, and sticking to it.

[Orrex]

17. Ah, yes. The old "you should simply have more money" strategy.

Your advice is unmistakably condescending to anyone who actually lives with the hardships of economic reality.

It's akin to Dick Cheney's suggestion that people save on healthcare costs by not getting sick.

[TBF]

18. I think you need to review the

income inequality stats. In this country the gap between very rich and very poor is back to where it was 100 years ago. There's nothing wrong with making a budget, but there is so much more going on than simply individual actions.

[uppityperson]

22. I think I'll fast 1 day a week and put the $ not spent on food into savings. Oops, a tooth went bad,

needed to be pulled since I couldn't afford a root canal. $400.

OK, let me fast 1 week this month and save that $. Power bill is higher due to cold weather. Damn.

Let me try this month. Yay! nothing bad happened and I now have $20 more in savings.

Huh, laid off my job, unemployment will give me 1/2 my income after a few weeks of no income.

Pull out that $20 to pay rent.

As I am nearing 60, having a hard time getting rehired except for temp fill in work which =s my unemployment.

Yup, guess I just need to create a budget, look where to cut, make a plan, stick to it. Why didn't I think of that?

[silverweb]

56. +1000

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]I was formulating some kind of similar response, but you've just said it better than I ever could.

[Jackpine Radical]

25. Why do I get the feeling that you have never endured real

financial hardship in your life? Or even known anyone well who has?

These smug suggestions smack of the kind of self-congratulatory arrogance that can only arise from ignorance.

[louis-t]

41. Or conservative ideology.

Sounds like one of Mitt Romney's simplistic solutions to every day problems, patent pending.

[Marr]

45. Hey, why don't the poors just get a loan from dad?

Or maybe manage their trust funds a little differently? Or maybe buy smaller yachts? I mean, c'mon.

[closeupready]

59. Or, heck, make some speeches at Goldman Sachs? They pay well, don't they?

Seems like we're supposed to feel sorry for people who really aren't probably trying hard enough to get money.

[azmom]

100. They are proud

Of being piss poor.

[hifiguy]

26. This can only reflect astonishing naivete

or a desire to troll. When your entire income goes for the bare basics of survival there is nothing left to budget. I have been there and I know.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

31. I know someone who is one of those irritating types that saved from their first job....

He's a spoiled momma's boy (sans momma who died 20 years ago) who never moved out of the house and is full of neurosis about dogs pooping outside and dirty handles in public washrooms and bugs and who freaks out when birds are overhead because they might poop on him. You'd swear he was doing a Woody Allen impression. He's now a 60+ year old virgin who has over a million set aside and he ASSUMES that EVERYONE has done what he's done except for "those who made bad decisions in their life".

[liberal_at_heart]

43. cost of rent, groceries, natural gas for heating, education, taxes, health care,

have far outpaced the average American's paycheck. There is nothing to budget. There is nothing to save.

[frylock]

47. hey, maybe they can do that in their car before clocking into their third job..

if they're lucky enough to own a car, or have a job(s).

[abelenkpe]

24. You gotta be kidding right?

Save? When wages have stagnated? When good secure jobs have been offshored replaced with temporary no benefit jobs? Save when savings accounts earn .25 percent? When many 401ks don't have an employer match? When pensions are no longer offered? When the cost of necessities like healthcare, education, transportation and rent have gone up? How the hell are people to save? Who can they trust with the little they can scrape together? Wall street which remains unreformed where the big fish skim from the small through HFT? Please. Your post has to be sarcasm or you live a comfortable life insulated from the reality of how tough things are for the working class. Great right wing talking point though.

[taught_me_patience]

33. Completely serious

First off, it's real wages that have stagnated. Real wages already account for inflation. Secondly, the median personal income of those over 25 is 35-40k/year. Over time, most should be able to save at least a little on that income. I've personally had many years of my life where I saved very little to nothing and many years where I've saved a lot through cost cutting measures. Hell, I lived with roomates until I was 30 years old and making 90k/year.

I don't care about wallstreet, HFT, Private Equity, Carried Interest, CEOs, etc... they have no impact on my personal decisions.

[uppityperson]

57. 60 yrs old nurse and never made 90k a yr.

If I made 90k, I'd be able to save 3/4 of it. What costs should I cut? What costs can I cut? I guess I could not heat my house, just wear a snow suit all the time. That'd save me $500/yr. It'd be nice to be able to get another job, but at 60, few will hire me. I've been told I should move to a city as there are more jobs there, higher rent and more competition too. I could live in a homeless shelter though, until I get my feet back under me.

[taught_me_patience]

60. You're really stuck on that 90k aren't you?

It's a nice way to completely ignore the message. I'm really sorry you cannot see the forest through the trees.

[uppityperson]

64. uh. huh. I am sorry you miss the point that saying "budget, save" is rather condescending to most of

us while ignoring the facts that most of us have a hard time making basic end meet.

[taught_me_patience]

79. Median household income in the US is 52k - You are wrong.

So there are millions of households making more than that. Sorry... "most of us" is not correct in any way all all.

[uppityperson]

83. you aren't worth is. eom

[NutmegYankee]

112. Median household income isn't comparable to personal income.

Median household income is taking into account a lot 2 person households. Per Wiki, 50% of Americans make less than $28,000 per year. 92% of Americans make less than $90,000. Considering I'm single and make over 100,000 per year, your attitude stuns me. Even I know how hard it is to save money for most people.

[liberal_at_heart]

67. oh, my god. How oblivious can you be? Do you not comprehend that 95% of Americans

never make $90,000 a year? So, yeah, excuse us if we are stuck on the fact that you made a meaningless, insignificant, measly little $90,000 a year. I was fortunate. My husband and I were part of that 5% for a little while. We were stupid and wasted our money trying to get our autistic son the education and occupational services he needed. We could have told our son too bad, so sad you're not getting the help you need. We need to put money into a savings account. What were we thinking? We are no longer in that 5% and struggle just like everybody else so unlike yourself I can afford to be a little more compassionate to those who don't make $90,000 a year.

[Ash_F]

75. 99.4% /nt

[draa]

69. Oh yeah, the old I'm making $90k a year so everyone must be

Good god, me and my ex didn't make that combined. It seems that you really are clueless about how little some people make or the opportunity they have to move up in the world. Just wow. Little hint, you can't save money when you're doing without already. Total and complete lack of understanding on your part.

[taught_me_patience]

78. 17 posts in five years and this is what you comment on?

And it is a complete and total misunderstanding of my post. wow...

[RiverLover]

87. Hey draa, don't mind posers here. You understood perfectly

& your input & insight is appreciated. Maybe if people were kinder here, you might have been motivated to post more, I'm guessing?

We're not all like this one here. Thanks for posting!!

[a la izquierda]

98. I have a PhD and a good job and I'll never make that.

My problem? I live in a very poor state, but a wealthy city. Housing is something like 10% higher than the national average. But my salary is among the lowest of my peer institutions. My fault for being among the fortunate few academics to land a job at a research institute in this shitty market.
And my mommy and daddy paid nothing towards my three degrees, so yup, I have student loans. I guess that's my fault too, not having rich parents. And I didn't marry a rich guy. Lucky, lucky me.

Fail.

[Ash_F]

34. You are truly special

Makes 90k a year. Tells people to save.

[taught_me_patience]

35. So you disagree that there are millions of Americans who could be saving

that aren't? I'm just pointing out that fact.

[Ash_F]

36. There are roughly 1.5 million people out of 250 million wage earners who make over 90k.

I don't think this tiny minority is who Sanders was talking about.

[liberal_at_heart]

49. My husband was fortunate enough to make it to that point at one point during his career.

We actually were putting 1% into a 401(k), but still didn't have much left over. We were trying to live in neighborhoods with good schools so our autistic son could get the occupational and speech therapy he needed. We couldn't afford to pay for occupational or speech therapy ourselves, but we could at least put him in schools where he would get the services he needed. Now my husband is disabled. We get disability from both the government and from his employer but it is not nearly what he used to earn. Now we don't make any contributions to our 401(k) and we have had to take loans from our 401(k) just to survive. Most people who make over $100,000 never really know what it is to take such a hit that there is virtually no way to make it back to where you were. And once you take that hit, it is hard to pay for just the basic fundamental things in life like paying for a roof over your head and food on the table.

[Ash_F]

74. Thank you for sharing your experience. /nt

[uppityperson]

58. Oh, there you go again with your numbers and statistics.

I am in agreement with you. "just budget" is condescending advice as most of us are already doing so. 90k a yr. "just save". wtf.

[RadiationTherapy]

55. Why are you calling this a "fact" when it seems to be your opinion?

[JDPriestly]

40. We saved. The interest rate is far less than the inflation rate and that's in this time of low

inflation.

It is not the fault of the people who have less than $10,000 saved. It is the way our system is rigged against people who aren't either born into money, lucky enough to invent the some internet service or to get the rare job that pays more than it takes just to pay the bills.

In addition, our culture does not encourage saving. It only encourages spending. Thank you, noisy, worthless media.

[jtuck004]

50. You may have heard of Elizabeth Warren? Or do you think she is lying when she points out that

they cannot, because the costs of food, clothing, shelter, and thieving bankster types and their political lap dogs have combined to make it impossible to have enough to do so? Big problems coming.

There needs to be "responsibility" - and jail terms - on the part of thieving finance, bankster, politician, lower than scum types. They should quit stealing money from the mouths of children and families so their parents can save anything.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

51. Or be part of the lucky sperm club?

Save more, for christ fucking sake the vast majority couldnt save a penny with a gun to their heads.

There is nothing to save for many people, duh

[YOHABLO]

68. Are you out of you mind .. step into reality. People don't have any money to put away .. get it?

[taught_me_patience]

80. Median household income in the US is 52k

thus millions of households should have some money to put away. Just because you may not have money doesn't mean that many others don't either.

[Live and Learn]

91. I am sure you are well aware that median income is basically meaningless since living costs

in different parts of the country vary dramatically. $90 in New York or California can easily leave you living pay check to pay check.

Please realize that you do not walk in everyone's shoes and quit putting those not doing as well as you are down. It really is off-putting.

[LawDeeDah]

73. Personal responsibility...

I hear that crap phrase from my bagger relative.

Save more? Are you fucking kidding? Save more when you can barely meet basic bills. You insult millions all over the world.
Personal responsibility - upchuck!

[Rex]

76. But what if there is no money to save? Just go get another job right?

What if they cannot find another job? How about the personal responsibility of banksters that steal billions from the working class? You think they should do the same?

[demigoddess]

77. save more?

just heard something like 25% of school children don't know if they will eat this weekend. I think saving doesn't answer that question.

[GoneFishin]

84. Yeah. If they are out of bread let them eat cake.

[eShirl]

94. that's right, I posted before reading the replies

[arikara]

89. One of my fb friends featured a local ad for

a great deal on a one bedroom apt for rent. $1100 a month, minimum wage here pays $1600 a month before any deductions. There isn't a lot of room for personal responsibility, is there?

[taught_me_patience]

105. Don't get a 1bd

Get a roomate. Employees of mine are paying 1,400 for a 2bd 1ba apartment 3 blocks from the beach in Los Angeles. You can easily find nice 3bd 1ba apartments or homes for 1,500. It sucks sharing a bathroom with two others, but sometimes you gotta make some sacrifices until you make more money.

[liberal_at_heart]

106. "Until you are making more money" Wow. You really just don't get it.

You will never get it. I feel for your employees. I wish them more compassionate employers in the future.

[eShirl]

93. And if they have no bread, maybe they should eat cake?

Is that it?

[Indydem]

7. When has this ever NOT been the case?

At what point in human history has the middle class ever had some mythical huge savings sitting around?

I know for a fact that my parents, and their parents, were always one bad day away from losing it all.

When you want to have it all, you don't get to have economic stability.

The problem is with the "want(ing) to have it all" part.

[JDPriestly]

46. My grandparents were farmers. They did not have "savings" sitting around, but they owned

land which they sold to their son. They had "savings" in the sense that they owned something that they could sell. Prior to the 1930s, a good percentage of Americans owned land. It was not so unusual.

Conservatives think that we are still that kind of agrarian society in which if you work hard, you can "save," that is accumulate property or money that you can hand on to your children and that will support you in your later years.

The industrial revolution changed that.

As a society, we did not respond to that change until Teddy Roosevelt and the Progressive Party popularized the idea that working people, people who worked in industry should not have to work a 50 hour week and that child labor should not be permitted. Then, finally, in the 1930s, Franklin Roosevelt instituted Social Security which is the savings that most of us have and rely on.

The Republicans still think we are an agrarian society.

Now we have undergone a technological revolution of sorts. The social changes that we need to respond to this new "revolution" in which computers do much of the work we used to do have not yet happened. I don't think we have even figured out yet how to respond to this age of technology. Jobs that used to pay well no longer exist or are filled by people who will work for a bowl of rice and a roof.

Bush talked big about the "ownership society." Remember? Everybody was going to be an an owner. That led to the mortgage crisis and nearly brought down the world economy. Most of us never got to own things, we just got owned.

Each new age, each new level of technology and innovation, as it sweeps across society requires a new kind of social organization.

This is what Republicans don't understand or don't want to admit.

People can't save because the system is rigged to make them think they need all kinds of things they can't afford on the wages that the system is willing to pay them. Our businesses rely for their income on the fact that people spend and don't save.

We need to change the system.

Some people are good at inventing new technology. We need some people in our government and leading our society who are good at inventing new ways to keep our society healthy and working in the technology of our time.

In short, and I know I repeat myself a lot: our new technology requires us to make some changes in our social organization. That's the job of Congress, but there will be individuals, creative individuals to whom we need to listen who will have ideas about how we can best live together in peace with all our new technology.

Right now, the richest, rich either because they are creative with things or because they are clever at accumulating money through sometimes devious means or because they were just born rich, are pretty much grabbing the money and holding onto it tight without doing much of anything of social use.

Even those who have charities are actually controlling where their money goes and trying to determine what kind of society we will have. They are not necessarily the best qualified to respond to technology with ideas about social change. It is a totally different talent.

So the reason that so many people have no savings and no way to support themselves in times of emergency or when they age is that our social organization and the way we allocate money as a society is outmoded. It no longer works.

We still think we are farmers. Most of us are not. There will be no farm to sell or to continue to live on with our children when we are in our 70s, 80s and 90s. (I'm already in my 70s.)

[LiberalLovinLug]

109. Good post

We also need a great communicator to explain things to not only his/her base but to the idiocracy as well. Bill Clinton was a good example, he was able to mostly catapult his message over the tabloid MSM because of his ability and willingness to use the bully pulpit to enlighten citizens by using language and cadence. Which is one reason why he had such great numbers even in his second term while enduring the petulant prosecution aimed at smearing his reputation. Too bad we don't have a good orator in the President's chair at the moment...........Oh wait.

[Initech]

8. And the last 15 years the billionaires extreme greed has reached catastrophic levels.

[Dont call me Shirley]

11. 31 years, the Reagan revolution ruined the New Deal intentionally.

Which has caused the deliberate theft from and attack on the middle class and poor. They will not stop until they have their Lady Antebellum.

[Bluenorthwest]

23. I agree, but many on DU seem to think Reagan economics were not so bad, currently many DUers

endorse a 25 year trickle down voter, a Reagan/Bush loyalist. A person who was part of that whole intentional destruction of the New Deal. They don't even want her questioned about it.

[hifiguy]

12. Sit down for this statistic.

I have seen plausible reports - I think DUer Octafish posted the link - that the planet's ultra-rich now have some $25-35 TRILLION - yes you read that right - TRILLION - stashed away in various financial black holes around the world.

40 people now hold as much wealth as half the United States; 70 people own as much wealth as half the WORLD. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025895858

[Initech]

16. Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat??????

[hifiguy]

19. They are begging for the guillotine at this point.

May the people soon rise up and grant their wish.

[Initech]

21. When the revolution happens I don't want to be them.

Their relentless thievery and greed is causing a new great depression.

[hifiguy]

28. They should reflect on the fates of the Ceaucescus,

Mussolini, and Tsar Nicholas II. They didn't end well.

[former9thward]

38. Neither did the French Revolution,

Revolutions of 1848, Paris Commune, Bolshevik revolution or the Maoist revolution end well.

[Dont call me Shirley]

30. "Poor people will rise up and take what's theirs" Tracy Chapman

https://m.

[Dont call me Shirley]

14. We have no retirement. We are trying to pay off our house before retirement so we have a roof over

our heads. It is a petrifying reality.

[butterfly77]

27. Kick,kick,kicked&Recommended!

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

29. I'm surprised it's even anywhere near 50%.

I would have expected it to be 'only around 20%' or even less.

[taught_me_patience]

44. Especially because 23% of the population is below 18 and not even working

It also takes some time to save 10k. So, those who are just starting their career at 22 to 26 shouldn't really be counted either. We should really be looking at those who are over 30 and working who haven't saved 10k. I'd guess that it's probably below 20%, meaning 80% have something saved for a rainy day. Of course, that doesn't get people riled up. Things are much better than you imagine.

[JDPriestly]

66. There is some truth in your post.

But so many people now in their 50s and 60s lost their jobs and homes and lived on the savings they had accumulated prior to the recession that they are particularly unprepared for their elder years.

And in our changing, ever more computerized. ever more import-dependent society, they are unable to save enough now. Many are barely surviving. They have taken jobs that paid less than they had before the crash. It's pretty depressing for them. And people who had businesses that went under in the recession and are in that age group have also lost out. One friend of mine who did well before 2008 with a family business now rents rooms in her house. She at least has a house (mortgaged) so she has some hope.

Whether the young will be able to save and buy homes and own property, stocks, etc. will depend on whether our economy stays healthy. I'm very pessimistic about that. And mostly because the recovery from the recession is mostly going to the very rich. Maybe it will "trickle down," but I am more and more dubious about that trickle down stuff. It is not working well. It has not worked well for most Americans.

The "best and brightest" among American youth are saddled with oppressive student loan debt. That will make it harder for them to save.

We need some new solutions.

The biggest concern is that at this time when our inventors have great ideas some of which could solve huge problems and make life better for everyone, because of the tremendous disparity in wealth, the markets that can reward invention, that foster more inventions, will not be there in the future, a nearer future than we would like to contemplate.

Can ordinary people afford to benefit from the wonderful breakthroughs in medicine? New medications, new methods of communicating with doctors, new systems in hospitals and medicine, etc. All wonderful. But how to pay for them when patients' wages are not high enough to cover all that innovation.

Obamacare is a way to spread the risk and to encourage innovation by making sure the costs can be covered. But Obamacare can only achieve those goals if wealthier people pay some of the cost for care for those who have less. And Republicans, with their ape-like, chest-beating mentality of "I'll show that sucker who doesn't have what I have and doesn't deserve what I have. He should'a made better decisions" of course, don't understand that broadening the market for health care technology will ultimately save their own lives.

The disparity in wealth will ultimately slow down our technological development. Countries in which there is less disparity can absorb and deal with the changes better than we will. Just watch and see.

The lack of savings of ordinary Americans is just a symptom. It is not a character flaw.

I have to say that we lived in Austria many years ago. That country had a Bausparkasse system that encouraged people with little money to save. If you saved part of your income, the government matched your savings. That was a great system. Helped the banks as well as low-income people who wanted to save but whose accounts only grew slowly. That's a good idea. And Austria did quite well even in the recent recession.

[truedelphi]

71. Great post covering a lot of matters.

Thanks for that.

[babylonsister]

85. Great post, you were so

tactful, too!

[steve2470]

97. yes, impressive nt

[liberal_at_heart]

70. The average American 401(k) has around $80,000 in it.

Which is great but will last about two seconds during retirement. I'm about done commenting on this. You and those like you who have the money you need will obviously never understand those of us who don't have all the money we need.

[JDPriestly]

88. Those of us who understand what the disparity in wealth could do not just to individuals who lose

out but also to our society as a whole and to the progress of our country need to stay patient, write and speak clearly and firmly. Don't lose faith. Compassion and correct actions and thoughts will win out in the end.

People who seem cruel simply do not have the courage to be kind and compassionate. We have to help them find that courage.

It's all about courage.

[JDPriestly]

32. K&R.

[840high]

39. kick for Bernie.

[polichick]

42. Imagine the country we'd have if even a third of our leaders were on the same page as Sanders. k&r

[shenmue]

52. 'Cause we're poor

[RadiationTherapy]

54. Ten thousand? TEN THOUSAND?? In SAVINGS!? BAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH
AAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAA
HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

What fucking world do these people live in? And this is from Sanders! Just a ridiculous disconnect with the 92%.

[Quantess]

61. The text is too small to read, but let me hazard a guess:

Because people are f***ing broke!??

Just a guess.

[RationalMan]

62. Bernie is right to a point.........

There are millions in our country who struggle to make ends meet even with SNAP and other government and private assistance.

But let's not kid ourselves. There are many who have decent paying jobs who are engulfed in our consumer-driven economy who consume, consume and consume more without giving a thought to tomorrow.

They need to be held accountable for their consumerism but at the same time they are somewhat victims of a pervasive consumer-driven culture.

I started saving when I was about 25. It wasn't much but about $75 a month. As my income increased, my savings rate grew. I don't feel I denied myself things but I was prudent. I economized where necessary but still ate well, travelled, etc. As a result as I am within 10 years of retirement I have about $750K saved. Short of a total economic disaster I should be okay.

But when I read that most retirees today have less than $30K saved and with private pension plans all but gone, I wonder how they are going to survive on Social Security.

[liberal_at_heart]

65. Sorry but just like white people will never be able to understand being black, those

who have money just can't understand those who don't have it. You said as your income increased your savings grew. Incomes have been stagnant for many, many years now. And the cost of rent, groceries, health care, natural gas, and education have far, far outpaced income. If you see someone with a smart phone it is probably because they got it at Walmart or got a government subsidy for it. There are government programs that help low income people get phones and sometimes even internet service so that the children can do their homework.

[RationalMan]

96. You missed the point of my post.....

I completely agree there are millions in this country who don't make enough to make ends meet for the basics like food, housing, medical care, clothing, etc. Our minimum wage in this country isn't much better than in many developing countries. Further there has been wage stagnation since Reagan. I fully acknowledge that for millions saving is not an option BUT....

I have people in my age group (within 10 years of retirement) who have held good jobs for most or all of their careers and have next to no savings. They have consumed or over consumed (many with 5 or more maxed out credit cards) on new cars, mcmansions, expensive vacations, high fashion, etc.

It is those people I was chastising for looking in the mirror at retirement and realizing they are going to have to choose between their medications and eating. If you are able, and that is the big IF here, you need to start saving early - in your 20s. You can start small and build your savings over time. Those that can save and don't have only themselves to blame when at retirement they have nothing.

As for those who have nothing, can't make ends meet for the very basics, we have a fundamental problem. If they can't make it when they are working full-time how can we expect them to have any savings? Private pensions are a thing of the past so for everyone retirement will be a combination of whatever you may get in social security, a lottery winning and whatever savings you were able to make over the years.

[liberal_at_heart]

101. My husband made a good living for a while and made some friends that have a good

amount of money. They all have good retirement accounts. I didn't know there are people out there with lots of money and no retirement. Yeah I guess for those who make a good living and chose not to save, they will have a shock coming to them when retirement hits.

[mvd]

63. Because..

The rich have almost all the wealth in this country. They have robbed everyone else of their fair share. If we fixed that, had single payer, not constant war - people would be happier.

[hifiguy]

72. One of the most revealing quotes ever:

"i want my fair share - and that is ALL OF IT." Charles Koch

Time for the National Razor to get a workout.

[Enthusiast]

81. K&R! This post deserves hundreds of recommendations!

Bernie is the only one voicing concern over these issues.

[aspirant]

95. WE THE PEOPLE, not I the people

This I've got mine you get (save) yours is pathetic

[1StrongBlackMan]

102. I know why millions of OUR people are "stressed out" ...

BTW ... (Google search: "Bernie Sanders on {insert names})

Bernie on Trayvon: https://twitter.com/dierdrelewis/status/502893916945793024

Bernie on Michael Brown: A quick google search found nothing. (Maybe it too soon)

Bernie on Tmair Rice: A quick google search found nothing. (Maybe it too soon)

Bernie on Eric Garner: A quick google search found nothing. (Maybe it too soon)


Yes, maybe it's too soon for Sanders to comment on the latter three; but the google search results gives this Black man pause to consider whether he lives anyway here my world.

[lonestarnot]

103. K & R!

[woo me with science]

113. K&R A representative of the people

in a sea of liars, fascists, and corporate sellouts.

[Jesus Malverde]

114. It's a reality that interferes with the illusion of being middle class...nt