There is only ONE road back to a respected police force.

[obxhead]

Prosecute and harshly penalize officers that break the law.

HARSHLY.

If someone is entrusted to enforce our laws, they should get the MAX every time they break one of our laws.

That is the ONLY road back to respect by the general public.

[arcane1]

1. And those who assist and cover for them, too!!

[closeupready]

2. Take their guns away. Works in other countries.

[BrotherIvan]

4. It works because the populace is not heavily armed

The excuse for the cops having military grade weapons is because civilians have them too. Some people have arsenals full of guns. It's a cart before the horse thing. I've been to many countries where the cops have nothing more than a night stick. They are not considered superior to civilians, merely public employees. They do not threaten or intimidate and I have seen many people talk back to them in such a way that would get you killed in the US.

The so-called "war on drugs" has been a frog in boiling water situation. Terrorism has just been the cherry on top. Now they have everyone so afraid, they can drive tanks down Main Street and no one blinks an eye.

It's going to be just like this. And yet we feel helpless to do anything about it.

[daleanime]

6. So we start disarming with the police....

also need to stop profiting off of fines and tickets.

[ColesCountyDem]

7. "So we start disarming with the police...."

Please expand upon that thought, and give concrete examples of how officers would successfully deal with armed robberies, armed people barricaded in houses and shooting at passersby, school shooting situations, etc. .

[daleanime]

9. Why? If you feel that police must have the ability to kill some one 24/7....

we're not going to agree on this no matter how 'concrete' my reasoning.

[ColesCountyDem]

11. Because I want to know how you propose to make it work.

It was your idea, so why not defend it?

[daleanime]

44. Because we can't agree on a desired end?

I see you don't deputed the need for cops who can kill at any time. Why don't you defend that?

[ColesCountyDem]

50. Simple debate rules.

You make a proposition, you defend it.

[daleanime]

56. Simple rule....

You choose who you debate.

[ColesCountyDem]

58. Or posit propositions which one hasn't thought all the way through. n/t

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

76. Enforce the 2nd amendment and take all guns away to a well regulated militia

[ColesCountyDem]

77. Unfortunately, the Supreme Court doesn't agree with your interpretation of the 2nd Amendment.

The Supreme Court explicitly recognized that the 2nd Amendment is a personal right.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

78. They make mistakes all the time. Especially lately

[ColesCountyDem]

79. Until they rule differently in another case, it's the law of the land. n/t

[ColesCountyDem]

51. I agree with your OP, by the way. n/t

[sabrina 1]

64. Maybe only highly skilled and people who have proven themselves to be

moral and ethical enough not to shoot first then make excuses later types, should be assigned to handle serious armed threats to the public.

At this point the public has more to fear from cops in far too many places, than from crooks.

Start by ending the Drug War, for what should be obvious reasons.

End our foreign wars and we won't have so much hatred directed at the country that we even need to fear 'terror', though the terror mostly appears to be within.

Return to community policing, where the cops actually come from and live in the communities they police and are not an outside occupying force as they are for the most these days.

Take away all of their military weapons, their camo outfits, this is not Iraq, as one Iraq veteran said when he saw the Ferguson military invasion.

And most important, put all that money we spend on WAR into EDUCATION and OPPORTUNITY which will diminish crime and raise people out of poverty.

But handing guns to every lunatic who decides to become a cop is simply insane. And a definite threat to the public.

[ColesCountyDem]

66. Not every community has the luxury of specialized units of police officers.

Not everyone lives somewhere that has a large number of police officers. Furthermore, the nation is absolutely awash in weapons, so restricting weapons to only certain officers is nothing short of a 'unicorns farting rainbows' pipe dream.

[sabrina 1]

69. Well then, let's start with the problem of a country 'awash with weapons'.

We are in the business of arms dealing, that is part of the problem. So the money involved in arms here and overseas is what drives this business.

As far as communities not having the luxury of their own PD, if they are that poor and small, they are generally policed by the next county. I don't see why any PD that is policing any area cannot get police recruits from that area.

Most of the NYPD eg, comes from LI, Nassau Co, and other areas outside the city. They have NO connection to the communities they are policing.

You seem to have given up on resolving this issue. I believe it CAN be changed. Congress has a lot to do with the way our Police are functioning.

Eg, why are our CIVILIAN police being trained by the ISRAELI police/military? Who made that possible? Let's start with NOT having America's Civilian police trained in Qatar, Bahrain and Israel. That should be possible, don't you think?

[ColesCountyDem]

74. And you propose to do what to solve that?

So, we're going to get the estimated 300 million firearms in private hands in this country out of private hands how?

Many-- many-- poorer communities have their own police departments, some times a single officer. I live in a very poor, rural area, and I know whereof I speak.

Where recruits come from has what to do with the price of tea in China?

I've not at all given up on resolving this issue. I have, however, decided that solutions should be firmly anchored in reality.

Again, what do a very few American policeman being trained by Israel, Qatar or wherever have to do with anything?

[Ed Suspicious]

12. Strategically placed banana peels should help.

[ColesCountyDem]

13. As well as bulletin boards stating "We don't plan to commit any violent crimes today". n/t

[Throd]

39. And they should ride unicorns.

[uppityperson]

20. Same way they do elsewhere. Have an elite force for dealing with those situations

and the rest, the everyday cops, dealing with people? No weapons. Teach them to talk and de-escalate situations. To figure out what is going on, what the problem is, how to solve the issues rather than grab, toss, shoot, cuff, haul away.

[ColesCountyDem]

22. Other countries are not absolutely awash in firearms.

That's why those other countries can do that.

[Hoyt]

52. Exactly, we'd have to start by reducing guns among populace, gun cultists ain't gonna give them up

no matter how much it would improve society.

[obxhead]

23. Yes

[ncjustice80]

57. They have bullet proof armor they get from the station and tazers.

What else do they need?

[ColesCountyDem]

59. Not all officers have tasers, and 'bullet proof' is a misnomer.

Many police departments do not have tasers at all, or only have enough for command officers, but not for every officer. Additionally, 'bullet proof' armor is not, in fact, bullet proof. Kevlar will not stop jacketed rounds or some large caliber rounds, etc., nor will it stop a knife, in most cases.

Now you know.

[ncjustice80]

63. They dont all have body cameras either, guess that means they shouldnt be made to buy them?

The bulletproof they have is plenty enough for 99.9% of situations.

[ColesCountyDem]

65. So, that means criminals should have guns, but police officers shouldn't?

Take a deep breath, and consider that statement objectively.

[ncjustice80]

68. No one SHOULD have guns imo.

In the rare cases were guns are needed, they can call an armed response team.

[ColesCountyDem]

72. But people DO have them.

300 million firearms are in private hands, and that's a reality that isn't likely to change.

[ncjustice80]

81. So? Overzealous police have shown they cant be trusted with guns.

They are worse than any criminal!

[ColesCountyDem]

83. Nothing like a broad brush for painting, eh?

Very few officers ever draw their firearm throughout their career, and even fewer ever discharge it. Fewer still ever shoot someone.

Would you ban antibiotics altogether, simply because a few people have anaphylactic reactions to them?

[ncjustice80]

84. Few KKK members actually carry out any killings.

But they are all a bunch of racists who would happily kill people if they could get away with.

[ColesCountyDem]

86. This analogy has what to do with anything?

[ncjustice80]

87. The broadbrush is sometimes the correct for the job.

You know exactly what Im implying.

[ColesCountyDem]

89. It's never correct for the job.

I have no idea what you're implying, unless it is that belonging to the KKK is perfectly legal.

[ncjustice80]

90. Lol ok.

Some people are just gonna defend racist pigs to the end.

[ColesCountyDem]

91. There's a huge difference between defending racist pigs and ridiculing unworkable proposals. n/t

[meaculpa2011]

85. They would deal with armed robberies the same...

way they do now: Show up after the fact and take information.

As for the others, when the alarm goes out they check out weapons from the armory and respond.

[ColesCountyDem]

88. What about small departments?

My town has 10 officers, including the chief. Let's assume that your proposal is adopted. The on-duty officers-- 4 maximum on any given shift-- get a domestic violence call involving a weapon. Before they respond to the home, they first go to the 'armory' and draw weapons. They then proceed to the residence, where the victim may or may not be alive, at this point. Meanwhile, a second DV call involving a weapon occurs (a not uncommon occurence at all), and-- just for sh*ts and giggles-- one of the service stations on the interstate is robbed at gunpoint.

Under your proposal, you have police officers racing to the station to draw weapons while lives are being threatened, and maybe taken. I'm sure the victims in these situations would wholeheartedly support your proposal.

[meaculpa2011]

92. You're right. Stupid idea. n/t

[Skittles]

61. they don't deal with gun humping cowards

[obxhead]

62. yes, he w many stories do we need to read where an officer has murdered

An unarmed person.

If the play lice can't control their weapons of war, then take them away.

If they do commit any crime prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law with mandatory max penalties for officers.

[ncjustice80]

70. They ARE gun humping cowards.

[Skittles]

71. the police in other countries?

[obxhead]

8. If you can prove better than 1% status.

Otherwise they throw the damn book at you and force intense fines and jail time.

Those that enforce our laws should be held to the highest standard. If they break our laws, they pay the max. Every Time.

[BrotherIvan]

5. I think the fastest way to stop it is to make sure every judgement

against a police officer for wrongdoing, such as when the city is sued for brutality or causing harm, comes out of the police pension plan. These rogue cops can do whatever they want and it doesn't effect them one bit. No criminal or monetary repercussions.

Take it out of the pension pool and cops would shut misbehavior down immediately.

I also think there needs to be some kind of elected board or somehow an overseeing entity that monitors the police. They are too insular from top to bottom. The corruption needs to be shut down.

[Maineman]

10. I like this idea. Take it out of their pension fund.

[BrotherIvan]

37. I didn't think of it, but it is the best idea I've heard.

[demmiblue]

14. Also, change hiring practices.

No more authoritarian worker bees.

Screen for those who exhibit empathy,compassion, flexibility and problem solving skills.

The police should serve the needs of the community, not be in war with the community.

[KingCharlemagne]

15. Socialist Revolution would also do it, methinks. But, yeah, if we're going to

keep capitalism and its goon squads around, your method is probably the only way.

[obxhead]

19. A good and proper police force

could facilitate that revolution.

[KingCharlemagne]

45. Great minds think alike! As someone far more famous and wise than I shall ever be once said:

Our slogan must be: arming of the proletariat to defeat, expropriate and disarm the bourgeoisie. These are the only tactics possible for a revolutionary class, tactics that follow logically from, and are dictated by, the whole objective development of capitalist militarism. Only after the proletariat has disarmed the bourgeoisie will it be able, without betraying its world-historic mission, to consign all armaments to the scrap-heap. And the proletariat will undoubtedly do this, but only when this condition has been fulfilled, certainly not before."

V.I. Lenin, The Military Programme of the Proletarian Revolution (1916)

[99Forever]

16. Exactly.

Hard time, no breaks. And twice as long for the pigs that cover for them. ALL civil suit settlements should come DIRECTLY from the offending departments retirement funds, NOT US TAX PAYERS.

[MindPilot]

17. People who administer lethal force under government agency should be held to a higher standard.

A much, much higher standard than us ordinary civilians who do not have that power.

[baldguy]

18. +1000

[heaven05]

21. what if the police don't care

whether we respect them or not? What's next?

[obxhead]

24. They can only survive if we respect them.

We tip, as a whole, past the point of respect and they lose the tentative hold they have over us.

[TheKentuckian]

32. Then cut them off from the herd, break their union, degrade their authority

and if that doesn't do the trick then wipe them out.

[heaven05]

36. wow

that's to the point, yet has a ring of truth to it.....

[obxhead]

40. It's not the union

it's not the herd.

The problem is they don't answer for crimes the same way we do.

Hold the enforcers to a greater standard than we are.

[TheKentuckian]

49. That is a very critical piece of it but still far from the whole picture

However, I'm taking about getting there and it isn't from here.
There is no reforming the monster created here. Remodeling doesn't fix bad "bones", sometimes the only way to make use of the land is to tear down a hazard and build from scratch. I don't get the thought that we have a good thing that just needs a few rough edges smoothed out.

[librechik]

25. There is no back. We have never had a respected police force

ever.

[TheKentuckian]

26. Surprisingly good answer...accountability, consequences, commitment to service, one law for great

and small, stewardship, respect.

[Kablooie]

27. First you have to pass laws that define police brutality as a crime.

Much of what we see as excessive police brutality is not a crime because laws are written to exclude police.

[obxhead]

30. No we don't.

We simply need to uphold OUR laws against those entrusted to enforce them.

[Kablooie]

43. "Why It's Impossible to Indict a Cop"

Chapter 563 of the Missouri Revised Statutes grants a lot of discretion to officers of the law to wield deadly force, to the horror of many observers swooping in to the Ferguson story. The statute authorizes deadly force “in effecting an arrest or in preventing an escape from custody” if the officer “reasonably believes” it is necessary in order to “to effect the arrest and also reasonably believes that the person to be arrested has committed or attempted to commit a felony…or may otherwise endanger life or inflict serious physical injury unless arrested without delay.”

But this law is not an outlier, and is fully in sync with Supreme Court jurisprudence. The legal standard authorizing deadly force is something called “objective reasonableness.”

“Objectively reasonable”—what could be wrong with that? But in actual courtroom practice, “objective reasonableness” has become nearly impossible to tell apart from the subjective snap judgments of panic-fueled police officers. American courts universally defer to the law enforcement officer’s own personal assessment of the threat at the time.

Lot's more here:

http://www.thenation.com/article/190937/why-its-impossible-indict-cop

[valerief]

28. I don't want a respected police force. I want a respectable one. nt

[obxhead]

31. The ONLY way to get a respected police force

is for them to act in a respectable manner.

[valerief]

33. I don't care if they're respected or not. I still want them to act respectably. nt

[obxhead]

34. right

[tularetom]

42. Actually we should have a police force that is respectFUL

In my experience (father and father in law of cops) most have little respect for those they are supposed to protect and serve. They view themselves as the centurions at the gates protecting civilization from the evil and chaos that lurks without but they have mostly scorn for those they serve, referring to just about any citizen by some ugly personal term and laughing at the misfortune of minorities, women, seniors and kids.

I blame the media for this because of the endless parade of cop shows on TV, most of which portray the police in just the way they see themselves, some sort of supermen who can ridicule their clients among themselves.

My kid thought it was bullshit and he told them so. Needless to say he got himself on the shitlist, and he bailed after about five years on the force. My son in law thought he could be one of the tough guys, but he was really kind of a softie inside and he left after a dozen years. I think the stress of keeping up the badass macho persona was stressing him out.

What these cops really need is to remember that they are serving us, they aren't prison guards and they need to show a little respect before they start demanding it for themselves.

[valerief]

47. Even better!

[JI7]

29. back ?

At last when it comes to black and other minorities they have always sucked

[ReRe]

35. I agree, and...

... as a matter of fact, I think if we can get to a point where our white police aren't gunning down our black citizens, that it might have an overall positive effect upon the racist attitudes of the entire populace over time. The shoot-blacks-and-ask-questions-later policy empowers & fuels racism in this society. Especially when the police are never held accountable. We need to get rid of the double standards that abound in this country, cut out the idea that police & Wall Street are somehow "above the law" and that they can do no wrong when they do grievous wrongs every single day.

[obxhead]

38. The double standard

The core of the problem.

Hold them accountable.

[Albertoo]

41. Probably more about amending the Law

There is only ONE road back to a respected police force.
Prosecute and harshly penalize officers that break the law.

For the record, the police is one of the most respected institutions in the US.




In the recent contested occurrences, the officers were prosecuted. So the point is not the fact of prosecuting, but changing the laws to curb excessive use of force by the police. (this would most probably get bipartisan support, assuming all use of force by the police is not denied)

Stepping up anti-graft controls might be a good idea, too. Also decoupling job appraisals from number of fine tickets handed out.

[NutmegYankee]

46. Correction: WAS "one of the most respected institutions in the US."

I'm sure updated polls would indicate differently.

[X_Digger]

48. Wait, so 'equal protection under the law'-- except for those cop pigs?

Hunh, who'da thunk the 14th amendment would go down so easy.

[ColesCountyDem]

53. A change in the laws would help a GREAT deal.

There was an arrest-related death in our county in July of 2013. A village police officer attempted to effect an arrest of a gentleman involved in a neighborhood dispute, and, after a struggle, succeeded in doing so; however, witnesses told other responding officers (one State Trooper, the Sheriff and one Deputy Sheriff) that the village officer had continued to beat and kick the suspect AFTER he had been restrained. The suspect was badly injured, and suffering from head trauma caused by a kick ( s ) to the head. Now, hold your breaths....

The Sheriff arrested the village police officer! He was initially charged with official misconduct (a very serious felony), aggravated battery and attempted murder. He was held in jail on a cash bond of $500,000. When the suspect he battered died 5 days later, the attempted murder charge was dismissed, and he was charged murder.

An examination of his employment history revealed that he had been 'allowed to resign' from at least 2 other departments, due to allegations of excessive use of force, and a court-ordered psych evaluation determined that he was mentally ill and also suffered from anger and impulse-control issues.

Just last month, the officer was allowed to plead guilty to voluntary manslaughter and was sentenced to 7 years in prison, of which he will have to serve 6, followed by 7 years of parole. The reason he was allowed to plead guilty to the reduced charge was that under Illinois' law regarding the use of deadly force by a police officer, is that it would have been unlikely that he could have been convicted at trial of murder.

Our State's Attorney (and others) are lobbying the Legislature to re-write the law on the use of deadly force, and are using this case as 'Exhibit A' in their campaign.

[customerserviceguy]

54. There's another one, too

And it does need to be pursued in parallel with your idea.

I was not surprised by the Gardner case non-indictment, because of the local culture of corruption here. Lots of people have police benefit association stickers on their bumpers, because the first thing they want a cop to know about them is that they suck up to LEO's. Beyond that, anybody who is a friend of a friend of a cop can get an annual wallet card to hand over with their driver license on a traffic stop, and possibly get away with whatever violation they were pulled over for.

Add to that the official instances of this, if you're a member of the NYC police force, and live in NJ, you can get a special license plate that says that. Even the New Jersey cops have a code "P" at the beginning of their driver license number to tell other cops to let them off the hook.

That shit didn't fly where I came from in the Northwest. A few years ago, a woman got busted for DWI, and it didn't matter to the State Patrol that she was a Washington State Supreme Court Justice. People here in the Northeast think I'm making it up when I tell them that story.

[Enthusiast]

55. K&R! This post deserves hundreds of recommendations!

[Orsino]

60. Plus the matter of budgeting for realistic staffing and wages, and oversight.

These imply raising taxes, and also banning private money from the political process. Can't have a good ol' boy network if it can't hold money over cops' heads, and proactive social support prevents a lot of crime.

We have many paths to tread, not just one.

[helpmetohelpyou]

67. Also any cops that are a witness to the other cop breaking the law

but do not arrest and cuff him on the spot

[davidn3600]

73. They will never do that...

Just like prisoners have a code to never snitch on each other, cops have the same code for themselves.

[helpmetohelpyou]

75. Then there are no good cops

That simple

[obxhead]

80. A good cop becomes a bad cop the first time he/she looks the other way.

There are good cops, but they are exception not the rule.

So a police force to police the police? We already have that, and it fails due to the strength of the blue wall of silence.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

82. Most people either already respect the police or never will.

There are good arguments for prosecuting police officers who break the law.

But whether or not people respect the police mostly comes down to their political culture and prejudices, not reason, just like all political opinions, and I think it would be naive and overoptimistic to assume that police reform will make respect for the police significantly more common.