This message was self-deleted by its author

[darkangel218]

This message was self-deleted by its author (darkangel218) on Sun Dec 7, 2014, 08:42 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

1. The 'immigrant experience' in America.

Always being looked down on during your lifetime.

As if you 'chose' where to be born, or to what parents, or as if your DNA were somehow inferior as a result of geography.

Yup, there are a lot of different sorts of privilege out there, and they're all ugly.

[darkangel218]

2. I just received a private message telling me i didnt spell privilage correctly :'(

Im sorry but does get to me.
Will I ever belong here?
Will I die being considered an alien immigrant, like my ex used to call me??

[Kali]

33. try a spell check program

I just received a private message telling me i didnt spell privilage correctly :'(

Im sorry but does get to me.
Will I ever belong here?
Will I die being considered an alien immigrant, like my ex used to call me??

your little pity parties are tiresome, virtually nobody has ever made fun of your immigration status OR your spelling problems.

you whine more about this than anybody actually making fun of you.

now, when you are obviously PUI? that is a different story.

[Warpy]

43. You belong here as much as the rest of us non indigenous people do

but some people are just idiots who are afraid that either you'll start to laugh at them in a language they don't understand or that you'll outclass them by the mere fact of being either British or French.

As for the PM correcting your spelling, I'm sure it was kindly done. After all, it wasn't public shaming in the post, it was just a private aside. There is a way to get spell check to function on the topic line but I've never bothered. When I'm having a lysdexic moment, I just type the word in the body of the message to see if it sprouts a red line indicating I've goofed. Again.

It's true, a few people will always look down their long blue noses at you for not being born here. Just recognize it's out of fear and move on. Most of us, especially in the cities, are glad you're adding a little extra spice to what would be a very bland country if we were all WASP suburbanites.

It's obvious why he's your ex....

[darkangel218]

3. See? No one responds. No one cares.

Screw us who weren't born here, right. :'(
This is what I received in PM, warned that people will "make fun of me"

Xipe Totec
Re: Re: check your spelling
Hey, don't be offended! I'm trying to help you!

Anybody else would have made fun of you on the public forum instead of reaching out to you privately.

English is my second language too, by the way. And I only improved when people were kind enough to correct me.

Peace.


> English is my second language.
> ESL! Please leave me alone. Check your morals before you mail me about spelling.
>
> > Don't want to post corrections on the thread. Making fun of people's spelling is not my style.
> >
> >
> > The word is spelled privilege.
> > Peace.
> >
> >

[cyberswede]

4. Two things

1. Nobody made fun of you.

2. The poster who sent the PM did it to be helpful; your reply to him/her was unkind.

Oh...a 3rd thing...the only one saying "screw us who weren't born here" is you.

[darkangel218]

5. What about your replies to me in the Religion forum?

The poster had no bussiness to attack my spelling saying others will "make fun of it" when my post was about me being born abroad and xenophobia.

Both you and that poster leave me alone.
I could do without your hate.

Seriously, leave me alone.

[cyberswede]

8. You posted on a public website. Expect replies.

And nobody attacked your spelling. A fellow non-native English speaker gave you a friendly spelling correction. Why you decided to make it public is a mystery.

Finally, if you think I have "hate," you're mistaken.

[darkangel218]

9. That poster attacked my spelling.

And you attacked my beliefs in the religion forum. Please stop replying to me. I'm not interested in your hate.

[cyberswede]

11. You need to look up the word "attacked"

...and the word "hate," evidently.

[cyberswede]

18. I think you're confusing me with someone else.

I rarely post in any of the religion groups (and have never replied to you there).

[darkangel218]

19. Alrite, my bad. was someone else.

But you can see where I'm coming from. I'm trying to make a point and someone is PMng me that I misspelled and I will be made fun of.
If you think that's appropriate, please refrain from talking to me. That poster was simply nasty and hes on ignore now.

[cyberswede]

22. They sent the PM to PREVENT people from making fun of you in the thread.

Seriously, it was a correction sent out of kindness...they even said so in the follow-up message. You're looking for something to be upset about.

[darkangel218]

24. No, it wasnt "kindness". Why would anyone "make fun" of my spelling in a thread about xenophobia?

I still misspell. I was born and grew up abroad. Why would anyone "make fun" of my grammar??.
If he trully wanted only to correct me, he didn't have to say he did it to prevent others from "making fun of me".
Thus far he is the only one who did make fun of my English abilities. And I stand by what I told him in pm.

[LiberalElite]

46. My two cents -

Plenty of people who were born here, native English speakers, misspell words. Sometimes it's just sloppy typing and they didn't proofread/use spellcheck. They're in a rush and just click on "post." Some people don't spell well, period. It's not one of their strengths. If English isn't your first language, spelling can be a particular challenge for you.
I don't think people are out to get you (only my opinion) so please relax.
P.S.: I mean well - I'm not out to get you either.

[darkangel218]

47. Would you PM me for a misspelled word?

[LiberalElite]

50. no - but that's because

i don't know how to PM anyone here. I'd end up putting it out in public. Sometimes I post corrections here and elsewhere but I do hesitate. Doing so seems overly picky to me sometimes so I'm conflicted.
I was born here in USA and am a native English speaker. No other language was spoken in my family. I was always good in spelling but some people (native English speakers) just aren't. If English isn't your first language there is an extra hurdle. (I can speak it but not explain it LOL)

[tammywammy]

56. That PM was not attacking you.

They specifically said, "Making fun of people's spelling is not my style."

They were trying to be helpful.

[Quantess]

15. cyberswede is most likely not even a native swede.

Interesting times.

[cyberswede]

17. LOL. Nope.

My gramma was, though.

[Quantess]

23. That's nice. Both my parents were.

Can you imagine moving to a foreign speaking country as an adult, with your spouse and 4 young children? My parents did exactly that.

Nowadays, swedes learn english beginning in elementary school but that was not the case in the 1940s and 1950s. So you may have to stretch your imagination a bit to appreciate the incredible challenge my parents and your grandmother overcame, in mastering the english language.

I live in sweden right now, and I have busted my ass every single day mastering swedish. Of course I was lousy at first, but I work at it every day.

What I have experienced being a non-native speaker in sweden: It's okay to ignore you and dismiss you, also, people think you aren't very bright. And this is in a country where most people have at least a basic knowledge of at least one other language, if not near mastery of at least one.
I also have had people from several different countries react "you're from the USA? You're not fat at all!" in amazement, which is completely beside the point.

[NYC_SKP]

38. On a jury for this reply, I voted to leave but not because it think it's "OK".

It is NOT ever OK to post the contents of a PM to the rest of the membership without consent of the sender, IMHO.

I'm leaving it because I don't think it's embarrassing to the sender, I see that they are being kind and helpful.

I does not, however, make you look very good.

You could self-delete and save some face, you know.

[darkangel218]

48. I dont care what you think of mr, NYSKP, and even more so, you cant tell me to delete my posts.

Have a nice day.

[LittleBlue]

39. Someone's abusing the alert system against you. Results

On Sun Dec 7, 2014, 02:16 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

See? No one responds. No one cares.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5924984

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

outing another DUer who was just trying to help

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Dec 7, 2014, 02:23 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: "Outing another DUer"- said nowhere in the forum rules. Alerting has gotten out of control on this site. The alerter should get a hide.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: The hostility the poster carries here for someone who was kind enough to privately suggest correcting a misspelled word in the title of the thread is totally uncalled for. I normally do not like knocking posters out of their own threads, but this poster seems to want to persist in being rude, so I'll vote to hide.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Why was this even alerted on? Am I missing something?
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[darkangel218]

45. Wow.. ok. Thank you for letting me know

[stone space]

6. I call it "Gringo Privilage".

That's gotten me in trouble on other online forums before.

Oh, well...

[darkangel218]

7. Yup.

Got it from both dems and repubs.

[Vattel]

27. Lol, I like that one: it has been duly added to my list. Personally, I try to be aware at all times

of my cornucopia of privileges: tall person privilege, athletic privilege, gringo privilege, able-bodied privilege, male privilege, full-head-of-hair privilege, slender privilege, right-handed privilege, never-been-attacked-by-a-bear privilege--the list goes on and on.

It is very true that immigrants face all sorts of unfair disadvantages and bigotry. I was born in the USA, but even when I use Spanish in public I sometimes get dirty looks or rude comments.

[yuiyoshida]

10. Once while hanging out in Chinatown with friends there were

Some tourists who came up to us and basically Yelled very loudly, and slowly "DO YOU SPEAK ENGLISH???". My friend laughed and said, "Yes, and we are not deaf...we can hear you." They were so embarrassed, they walked away without asking the question they had.. Guessing they were asking directions on how to get some where, but Chinatown is not that hard to figure out.

[darkangel218]

12. Yup, the typical xenophobe question: Do you speak English

I would have have replied:.yes I do. Do you?

Screw them haters.

[yuiyoshida]

14. I think my friend was more amused...

And my friends were Chinese.. why anyone would think people in Chinatown only speak Mandarin or Cantonese when this is clearly in an American city. I guess they must have thought otherwise, and that tickled my friend, who by the way knows both Mandarin and Cantonese. (Her folks were from Hong Kong.) I guess could have replied .... Shénme? Wǒ bù zhīdào nǐ zài shuō shénme. Zhè shì měiguó? Wǒ zài nǎlǐ? (what? I don't know what you are saying. IS this the united States? where am I? )

[JDPriestly]

32. In Los Angeles, a lot of people in Chinatown, especially the older ones do not speak much

if any English. This is a matter of simply being who you are. If you do speak English, just say yes. I have lived in foreign countries. All over the world, people try to communicate and will make a comment if you have an accent or look different. Sometimes what they say could be interpreted as insulting. I could tell you lots of stories.

Like stopping in a shop in a small town in France, buying something with less than perfect accent in French and having the woman in the shop run out of me after the store informing that I looked French and therefore should speak better French.

This is just universal. Nothing to see here. Sorry to be so dismissive, but really. People are interested in accents and languages. It's a good sign if they ask you if you speak English. They are just struggling to relate to you. It isn't intended as an insult.

[yuiyoshida]

35. Yes they have every right to ask it in civil tone

but by yelling it, I don't know what they were thinking. It was not that noisy, there was some traffic but not enough to hinder their voice... if they were deaf, than maybe they had a reason to be loud, I don't know. I know I didn't answer, my friend did. She lives out in the Sunset, and not in Chinatown. I live near Japantown... and Yes, I don't expect most people to tell the difference between one Asian or another... But coming up to us and yelling "Do you Speak English" seemed odd to us..and so, no we were not offended, just found it amusing.

[cherokeeprogressive]

42. I've heard more than one comedian talk about how this happens on a regular basis...

I don't think those people meant any harm; it's a habit.

[Journeyman]

54. Everyone can understand English, a comedian once observed. . .

If you just speak it slowly, and very loud.

[hunter]

16. As if I chose my ancestors as a pre-conception soul...

... nope, I'm pretty sure I didn't. I was born in Los Angeles, with older ancestors born in San Francisco and other Wild West U.S.A. locations.

Random chance.

All my ancestors fled to the Americas because things were getting too dangerous for them in Europe, Scotland, and Ireland.

More than half of them are "undocumented." They jumped ship in places like San Francisco and hit the water swimming, or the docks and piers running. No records of their arrival here, and that's apparently the way they wanted it.

My wife has Native American ancestors, and French and Irish Catholic ancestors, who fled the U.S.A. for Mexico and Canada when the U.S.A situation got too hot for them. Her family history is easier to trace than my own. Catholics keep good records, if one stays in the church.

I've no grounds to deny more recent immigrants similar experiences.

[Liberal_in_LA]

20. omg. what that lady said.

[darkangel218]

25. It was so obvious and pathetic.

And hurtful

Why?

Why do Americans who are law abiding citizens have to suffer this humiliation? Why do people look down to us??

I have an inkling. Same reason why they're racist.

FEAR.

[JDPriestly]

30. She was just struck by his/her accent. There is nothing wrong with that.

[Liberal_in_LA]

31. seriously... did you read his post? Her comment was clearly meant to signify anti immigrant feeling

[JDPriestly]

34. I have lived in other countries. That's just the way people are. It is really nothing to be

sensitive about. I have been treated much worse as an American in other countries simply based on my accent. We can be over-sensitive. If you want to live in a country that is not your native country, whether it is America or France or Germany or any country, you have to be expected to find a certain amount of curiosity and if someone is in a bad mood, even hostility toward you. That is just part of living in a country in which you were not born. You talk funny. I talked funny -- especially in England. A foreigner is spotted right away. If a person does not like that reaction, then they really should either be very quiet or live where they were born. I hate to be so cold about this, but it is a pretty universal experience for people around the world who live in a country in which they were not born.

I recall a woman from Scotland who applied for a job in a company in London where I was working many years ago. She explained to me that she was taking lessons to get rid of her Scottish accent because the Scottish accent was such a problem for her trying to get a job in London.

This is just normal. Sorry. But it is just normal.

[Liberal_in_LA]

36. " If a person does not like that reaction, then they really should either be very quiet or live wher

" If a person does not like that reaction, then they really should either be very quiet or live where they were born. "

[JDPriestly]

41. Yes. Travel broadens. The best response is a big smile and a friendly voice.

People are just curious. And xenophobia exists in every country I have lived in.

Just be kind to people who ask you where you are from. They are just curious.

[Quantess]

37. You "talked funny in England"? Astonishing!

Which second language was it you spoke in England? Wow and Scotland, too? What an incredible ordeal for you.

[JDPriestly]

40. My second language was American when I lived in Englznd.

There were lots of words that I utterly could not pronounce to sound British, and I'm pretty good at imitating sounds.

Try Broad Street. I never got it right.

Everyone knew right away that I was a foreigner. And many commented on it.

If you are going to live in a foreign country, you had better enjoy having people point out that you talk funny.

[Quantess]

44. That's great. I live in sweden and swedish is my 2nd language.

I have worked my american-speaking butt off daily to learn swedish and I can finally say that I am really good at it.

Sort of odd that you didn't seem to pick up the sarcasm.

[Journeyman]

21. Whenever I hear people discussing "native" versus "non" here in California. . .

I'm reminded of the opening scene in the 1939 film version of The Hunchback of Notre Dame.

A French sentry stops a Gypsy family as they try to enter Paris.

"Hey, you, only native Parisians allowed here!"

"Oh," says the Gypsy, "and how long have you been here?"

"My family has lived in Paris for 300 years!" the sentry loudly proclaims.

"Eh," comes the reply. "You came yesterday, I come today."

[darkangel218]

26. The only true natives are the indians.

But everyone else conveniently forgets that.

[Journeyman]

28. If they arrived over the Bering Land Bridge, they've been here only a little longer than us . . .

You yesterday, me a couple centuries ago, them a few millennia. What's important is we contribute what we can for today, and above all, that we be kind.

[G_j]

59. Someone was here long before that

New Evidence Puts Man In North America 50,000 Years Ago

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/11/041118104010.htm

I agree kindness is the bottom line. Yet you have to keep in mind the context we are speaking of today. White priveledge, etc. is a product of the dominant culture. People not part of the dominant culture often have to struggle for their rights.

[JDPriestly]

29. You are from Eastern Europe. Your parents and you were born there. Be proud of it?

I like to listen to accents and try to figure out where the person with the accent got the accent. Nothing wrong with it. Just be yourself. You are probably great just as you are. Americans do not feel superior to people from other countries. They are just curious. Please don't take that so seriously. It is not meant to offend.

[darkangel218]

49. Did i ever say i wasnt "proud of it"?

What does that have to do with xenophobia? Or do you think xenophobia doesn't exist?

[moriah]

55. Americans at the INS sure seem to feel superior, I can tell you that much.

My ex-husband was born in Romania, spoke English, Romanian, and German. Yet the only way they would do anything is if I was there and did all the talking. Even though he spoke English quite well, the fact he had an accent seemed to change the way they treated him, and since it made it where I had to be the one to drive from NY to Arkansas and back when they had issues in transferring his file and I had to speak to both offices in person to get it done, I remember the experience pretty clearly. They really treat anyone with an accent like crap, I spent enough time in various INS waiting rooms listening to know it wasn't just me.

I'm very glad that your interest in people's accents is not meant to offend. But the people who do treat people differently, or badly, because of an accent do exist, and while the exact words in the OP may sound innocent, the allegation was a tone in the speech that made the comment unacceptable. I wasn't there to hear it to interpret it and determine whether I would consider it offensive.

[Quantess]

57. Speak for yourself. There are some Americans who are judgmental toward foreigners.

And most of the time it is understood as subtlety. Mister American with your big old scary trip to England, where they speak a different language.

[LittleBlue]

51. Awful. IMHO American is more of an idea

I do believe in birthright citizenship. But basically as far as I'm concerned if you live in this country, and you believe American beliefs (freedom of speech, expression, etc), and you're just here to live a better life, then you're American. I don't know who has citizenship, but I can tell who is American.

[steve2470]

53. about the incident you recount...

When I hear an accent, I will sometimes ask politely. After I'm told, if I can say something semi-intelligent or ask a question, I will do so, if it seems appropriate, etc. I'm always very careful to be respectful.

At worst, this woman was a hard-core xenophobe. At best, she was simply clueless at how to react appropriately. From your description, she must have been sarcastic or condescending when she said the piece about people from other countries. I find that very odd, but then again I'm not a xenophobe.

Best wishes.

eta: One of my doctors is from China, the other is from New Zealand. My dentist is Pakistani. Love it!

[gollygee]

58. Do people from the UK and Australia have this happen as well?

I don't know if people from every country get this to the same extent, but I agree there's lots of xenophobia in the US.

[R B Garr]

60. On this forum in particular, I've seen more people from

other countries who mock Americans.