WOW! Incredible: Unbelievable picture from the Berkeley protests last night....

[Playinghardball]

Jason Pollock @Jason_Pollock

WOW! Incredible. “@H0XH4: Unbelievable pic from #BerkeleyProtests last night. pic.twitter.com/KNXFo3adTf” #iCantBreathe #BlackLivesMatter

6:05 AM - 9 Dec 2014

http://theobamadiary.com/2014/12/09/presidents-statement-on-cia-torture-report/

[calimary]

1. Love it!!!

[AuntPatsy]

2. Uplifting!

[A HERETIC I AM]

3. Unbelievable indeed.

I'm all for peaceful protest and the right to assemble, but that is a picture of the I 80/I 580 section of freeway, north of the Bay Bridge interchange - a route used by tens of thousands of people who at that hour, were likely just trying to get home. Not to mention the dozens of truckers who make money BY THE MILE who got to sit there and make squat while this protest spilled over onto and shut down a major section of interstate.

FWIW, there was likely a co-worker of mine affected by that, and it could just as easily have been me, as my firm has a scheduled daily delivery just north of where that photographer took that photo from. If it was me, I would be showing somewhat less undertanding than I am now.

Protest all you want, but keep it the fuck off the freeways. Some of us have a job to do or just want to get home.

[pecwae]

5. It makes me think of the parents

who have to get to their child's daycare at a certain time. I assume the daycare would understand this delay, but the one I used had a $5 per minute charge after 6 pm.

[truedelphi]

6. I share your sentiments though for a different reason

This main artery is the only route a neuro surgeon being called to a hospital has to take. So someone's family member may end up dying because of this protest.

In that way I totally agree with you. (At this point, I don't care if protesters make life inconvenient for people, as how inconvenient is life in American for the Brown, Rice and Garner families? But we do need to keep highways running as they serve those who keep us alive.)

[A HERETIC I AM]

7. It is all that and so much more.

Behind each and every set of headlights in that photo is a different story, and I am willing to bet a days pay that there isn't ANY of them that are sitting there thinking "well...I agree with the sentiment, so I'm happy to have my drive home delayed".

It has happened recently on corridors I am presently driving, specifically I-75, though I have been lucky that the timing of my driving through those areas did not coincide with the protests.

This sort of action does nothing but piss off large numbers of people who would otherwise likely be on the side of the protest.

[dixiegrrrrl]

71. The protesters have made room for ambulances to clear

according to Tweets I have been following for the last few nights.

[truedelphi]

78. Glod to hear they have a lane for ambulances.

Neurosurgeons are not in ambulances - they are driving their private cars. The SF Bay area is a giant penninsula, or maybe several peninsulas strung together?

It is not like for instance, Chicago, where if one major artery gets held up, you can take alternate routes. In many cases, there are no alternate routes.

[nichomachus]

8. That's nothing compared

to the traffic jams Obama causes when he flies into to town for a campaign fundraiser with his millionaire donors.

[A HERETIC I AM]

9. Short memory, eh?

Forget about the time G Dubs flew to Napa Valley California TO GO FOR A BIKE RIDE?

http://napavalleyregister.com/news/local/presidential-visit-noon-saturday-update-angwin-area-bike-ride-was/article_892fb283-d1a6-56c9-910e-4fc282db6751.html

Or the time(s) Bush flew into SW Florida to meet with his millionaire donors? Such that they flew a Sikorsky H-60 White Top in via C-17 so he could fly by helicopter to meet with the guy?

Or the fuckload of other times Bush used AF1 and all the accoutremonts to go and ...oh...I don't know......cut brush at his TV set of a "ranch" in Texas? Or fly to meet daddy and mommy in Maine?

What a stupid comparison.

When a president flies into an area, I expect security. That is completely different from a protest shutting down a major freeway.

[nichomachus]

10. I know Bush didnit, but I was talking about Obama

I imagine George Washington caused a ruckus when he rode into town too.

[A HERETIC I AM]

19. Oh for fucks sake.

You win the dopey comparison of the day award.

Well done.

[LanternWaste]

11. Or a weekly professional sports game (seeing as how we're pulling in irrelevancies...).

Or a weekly professional sports game (seeing as how we're pulling in irrelevancies...).

[JDPriestly]

13. True and true of all presidents.

Presidents should hold meetings near the airports in which they land.

[LanternWaste]

12. No doubt, just wanting to get home is rather more a priority than social justice

"but keep it the off the freeways. Some of us have a job to do or just want to get home."

No doubt, just wanting to get home is rather more a priority than social justice-- which itself, can be quite inconvenient to those who really, really need to watch Wheel of Fortune.

Does your sentiment apply to protesters in Hong Kong? If not, what is the precise (and relevant) difference?

[A HERETIC I AM]

15. Ahhh...fuck it.

I imagine you've had time to read what I wrote.

Anyone else can read the previous edits.

What an absurd argument to get involved in.

I can see why there are so few 10 year + DU veterans left anymore

No fucking common sense.

[ret5hd]

34. I am a 10 ++ year veteran of DU and i 100% disagree with your opinion.

Rage and sorrow over-ride your "common sense"/.

The quest for justice over-rides your "common sense".

The desire for justice over-rides your "common sense".

"Rage, rage against the dying of the light." (better men than you have opposed your view)

[ret5hd]

66. Ahhh...fuck it.

You've given several replys but still havben't addressed my points, so all I can say is..."Whiner!!!!".

[KingCharlemagne]

20. So I suppose you don't hold much truck with the slogan

"No justice, no peace," eh? Protesters should stick to designated free-speech areas?

[A HERETIC I AM]

21. On the other hand, Mr. "been around 90 days or less"

Why don't you take the time to search my posting history to see what it is exactly I "Hold much truck with"?

Otherwise........bollocks.

Like I need to defend myself against a newb with a posting history shorter than my last bowel movement.

[KingCharlemagne]

22. IOW: "Protest all you want, just don't inconvenience me." - nt

[A HERETIC I AM]

23. In other words, "Don't completely piss off thousands who might otherwise be on your side"

Why is that so fucking hard to understand?


The late, great George Carlin had it right when he suggesteed that we get precisely the government and the organizations we deserve in this country, as a nation of apathetic, undereducated morons, we can apparently do no better.

[KingCharlemagne]

24. "(B)ehind every syllable of every word,

a death knell sounded for the American idea. . . . Founding Fathers? Constitutional government? The bell has finally tolled for thee, motherfkers."

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/The_Torture_Report_And_What_It_Says

[A HERETIC I AM]

25. LOL.

Non sequitur much?

[KingCharlemagne]

26. A non sequitur to those who still think the American system retains

much legitimacy. Kill unarmed black teens, torture prisoners to death. We don't care. Just don't get in the way of our freeway commute, mo-fos.

The Charlie Pierce essays (three of them) are tours-de-force, btw.

[A HERETIC I AM]

27. Out of curiosity...

Just who the fuck do you think you are talking to, anyway?

[KingCharlemagne]

30. Someone who places free passage on the freeways above every other

possible value?

That's actually about as far from heresy in America as one can get.

[A HERETIC I AM]

44. Shit. Ya got me.

[ret5hd]

36. You mean those that wanted their tea??? (after the boston tea party)

[Ineeda]

47. Love Carlin, and think he was a genius but...

Joseph-Marie, comte de Maistre, Alexis de Toqueville, and Thomas Jefferson all beat him to the punch with that quote. BTW, I agree with them all, sadly.

[A HERETIC I AM]

48. Fair enough.

I appreciate the correction.

[Dustlawyer]

50. Ditto, a stupid thing to do! It hurts the cause as well as anyone trying to get to a hospital!

[pinboy3niner]

53. And yet people manage to get to hospitals despite daily traffic jams in America's cities

L.A. has traffic stoppages of longer duration twice a day, every single weekday.

[Dustlawyer]

57. Really, I am sure that your argument is acceptable to someone needing the hospital right then!

There are other effective places and ways to protest without alienating many who are already supportive. I am appalled at what is happening, and has happened, with the police abuse and murder, as are most sane people! But the purpose of protesting is to build support for your cause and put pressure on the government to do something. The people stuck in that traffic for hours may have been supporters until the traffic jam, that's reality whether or not you think their inconvenience pales in comparison to what those poor families are going through. I fully support the protestors, just disagree with their choice of how and where they chose to make their statement! It hurts the cause!

[Curmudgeoness]

60. Bingo!

I know that every car stuck there had at least one pissed off person in it. And many of those people would be supportive...but may not be as sympathetic after this. I don't know why people don't get this.

[dixiegrrrrl]

69. Seems to me that a good way to bring awareness to a bunch of apathetic, undereducated morons

is let them experience the inconvenience of a freeway delay.

Betcha they will be thinking about the protesters for awhile now.
Isn't going to be easy to ignore the issue, betcha.

[Throd]

70. True, but how will they be thinking about them?

And why assume they are apathetic, undereducated morons?

[dixiegrrrrl]

75. I was referencing the post I had replied to. n/t

[abelenkpe]

76. +1000

[arcane1]

28. You made it!

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

How insulting and disgusting. Personal attack based on the length of time someone has posted here. Nasty and rude.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Dec 9, 2014, 02:47 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Over 2000 posts in his/her first 60 days is pretty suspicious. It is entirely possible that this person is being payed to disrupt this site. We all know it happens and this one seems like a likely candidate. For all I know the account that alerted this post is just a sock puppet of the person who was alerted. I see nothing wrong with pointing out that a newb is a newb. There is nothing in the rules against it.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I'm getting SICK of the personal attacks like the one this post is responding to. I've been getting them myself. Have a minor difference about specific tactics, and some asshole has to come in with "I guess that means you think this or that". It's disruptive and very, very suspicious. I have zero tolerance for posts like that. Heretic replied appropriately, and I would have voted to hide even if this post was worse.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Unnecessarily crude.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

[Hassin Bin Sober]

31. Not the only frivolous alert in this subthread:

On Tue Dec 9, 2014, 05:46 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

So I suppose you don't hold much truck with the slogan
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5935101

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

No need to attack a poster's character just because they suggest a different approach. That's what wingnuts do; it has no place on DU.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Dec 9, 2014, 05:55 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: There was no reason to alert this post. It was a misuse of the alert system.
This was an alert merely because someone disagreed.
Please start limiting the number of times in a given period that a person can alert.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I'd alert on teh Alerter.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Sorry, I can't find an attack on anyone's character in that post.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Lol. No dice, alerter. This should be 0-7 lockout, the good lord willin' and the creek don't rise.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[arcane1]

33. LOL I'm surprised it isn't more :)

[A HERETIC I AM]

41. I'd like to thank the Academy...."

" And all the little people who made this silliness possible. Drinks at my place. Kisses!"

[ret5hd]

35. What about me?

[A HERETIC I AM]

42. Precisely.

[ret5hd]

55. And yet, I still ask what about the points I raised?

[alphafemale]

29. One of the stupidest alerts ever, Fixed for viewing

Last edited Tue Dec 9, 2014, 08:15 PM - Edit history (1)

On Tue Dec 9, 2014, 05:46 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

So I suppose you don't hold much truck with the slogan
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5935101

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

No need to attack a poster's character just because they suggest a different approach. That's what wingnuts do; it has no place on DU.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Dec 9, 2014, 05:55 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: There was no reason to alert this post. It was a misuse of the alert system.
This was an alert merely because someone disagreed.
Please start limiting the number of times in a given period that a person can alert.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I'd alert on teh Alerter.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Sorry, I can't find an attack on anyone's character in that post.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Lol. No dice, alerter. This should be 0-7 lockout, the good lord willin' and the creek don't rise.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Jesus Malverde]

62. Other people cannot read your inbox...nt

[alphafemale]

64. Hold on.

Didn't check back.

[B Calm]

45. Makes me think of all the anger over New Jersey governor Chris Christie on DU.

[mountain grammy]

54. Hey, Chris Christie did it for selfish political reasons..

this is civil disobedience against a murderous and corrupt system. Aggravating? of course, Necessary? Absolutely!

[B Calm]

74. I thought he was protesting a democratic mayor.

[A HERETIC I AM]

61. Huh. Rarely has a single post of mine generated such a large sub-thread.

I am at the same time flattered and annoyed.

Flattered makes me want to stay.

Annoyed makes me want to go get ice cream.

I'm going for ice cream.

[petronius]

63. I agree: deliberately stopping traffic as the end-all-be-all of the protest is an

ineffective and counterproductive method of communication. Even simply lining the side of the highway would be better - more people would see and (perhaps) be receptive to the message if the traffic was flowing.

The underlying message I feel I'm reading in the posts supporting this tactic seems to be that being angry, being disruptive, is an end in and of itself. There's lip service paid to some notion of 'informing the people, sending a message'--with no real consideration of whether blocking a major artery is an efficient way of doing that--but it really seems that simply 'not being polite' is a considered a worthwhile goal in and of itself. Personally, I think that's facile...

[seveneyes]

4. Big Oil loves traffic jams

Winning hearts and minds.

[RandiFan1290]

14. Glad it gets your goat

[JDPriestly]

16. Comments about keeping the freeways open for emergencies are well taken, however

I am struck today by the proximity of the release of the torture report and the demonstrations against police brutality.

Maybe we are, finally, getting to the point at which we can just say no to the brutal use of force by authorities in our country at various levels of our society.

I hope that some of the people who support the NSA wiretapping, surveillance and eavesdropping programs will stop and ask themselves whether we want a government that is capable of torture of prisoners who have not be tried, of killing suspects with chokeholds and barrages of redundant bullets to have the kind of alll-encompassing knowledge about our communications that the NSA programs permit.

I for one do not.

The convergence of CIA overstepping demonstrated by the torture programs, local police overstepping as demonstrated by the killings of Brown and Garner with the scandalous NSA data collection programs is just enough for me. Somewhere this kind of power has to be checked and checked drastically.

Our government from the national to the local level needs to answer to us for its treatment of suspects and of our information.

[alphafemale]

46. There's emergency lanes for that.

I'm not completely in favor of this tactic but I can see the reasoning.

Protests have been ignored and downplayed and mocked and lied about since the protests against the War on Iraq.

So I can understand the drive to be impossible to ignore or downplay your numbers.

And if something doesn't change, and soon; an evening of inconvenience may be the least of our concerns.

[All Tuckered Out]

17. I don't find it uplifting, nor is it something to love.

There is a right way and a wrong way to protest. This is wrong. It only hurts the cause by upsetting people who are trying to get some where, get to their children, or do their jobs. Yes, protests are good and definitely needed, but they shouldn't shut down an interstate.

[jtuck004]

32. Do you think black folk being murdered might upset them as well? And you do realize it happens

because those who could stop it won't?

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
― Edmund Burke

The racists and bullies and thugs couldn't do what they do without the rest of us allowing it, paying for it, encouraging it, profiting from it.

This is a message to us, delivered exactly where we would see it best.

[seveneyes]

38. First, do no harm

One need not be a keeper of hypocrisy to keep such an oath at heart.

[Kalidurga]

37. Your concern is duly noted

[pinboy3niner]

39. EarlG: The American tradition of inconveniencing motorists...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=230315

[A HERETIC I AM]

51. As this may in part be directed at the comments I have made in this thread.....

Allow me to elaborate my position;

Sporting event) Pain in the fucking ass.

Holiday Shopping) Pain in the fucking ass.

Ducks Crossing) Are you kidding me? Not to mention that isn't a pic of a freeway, and a gaggle of ducks crossing same has less than a fifty-fifty chance on their best day.

Mad about the fact that cops keep murdering people and getting away with it?)

A false comparison to the previous 3.

Block surface streets. Protest on the boulevard. Picket at the town square. But shutting down the freeway at rush hour does not gain sympathy.

[ret5hd]

56. My "sympathy" lies with you.

and yeay..."sympathy" is in quotes for a reason.

[A HERETIC I AM]

59. How sweet

And in case my previous response to you wasn't clear, let me rephrase;

Who gives a rats ass?

[ret5hd]

65. You don't have much in the way of "linguistic artistry", do you?

Bless your heart.

[A HERETIC I AM]

67. If I felt you deserved artistry, I would not have hesitated in the slightest

I have however, become tired of this banality, and will retire to my motor vehicle with which I will venture into the appropriate place of purveyance to negotiate the vending of some sweetened, thickened dairy products, to paraphrase those members of the wonderful MP's FC.

If it is illustrious and colorful phrasings you prefer, please note that you shall not regularly find them emanating from my fingertips....


BECAUSE I'M A FUCKING TRUCK DRIVER AND I JUST DON'T GIVE ENOUGH OF A FUCK.

[ret5hd]

68. You mad, bro???

[uppityperson]

77. who gives a rats ass? me. eom

[99Forever]

73. Exactly.

Funny where some people's priorities are, isn't it? (and I don't mean funny ha ha)

[Maedhros]

49. Yes, social justice is inconvenient from time to time.

Glad to see you have your priorities straight.

[ManiacJoe]

18. How do the first five people not get run over?

[B Calm]

40. I look for it to happen. Lot of road rage out there

and this isn't helping their anger.

[Quayblue]

43. holy cow *goosebumps* nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

52. I find it unfortunate, and perhaps justified. But uplifting? No. n/t

[L0oniX]

58. Howard Zinn would approve. n/t

[tabasco]

72. Stupid assholes.

Blocking emergency vehicles and just pissing people off.