It's been a real hoot reading the thread titles in GD.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

Torture, war, collapsing pensions, police killing unarmed civilians, prosecuted whistle blowers, corporate greed, disenfranchisement, institutionalized racism...

And I haven't even had coffee yet.

Remind me what it is I'm supposed to be working for. Tell me why I should care about maintaining and sustaining this system. It can't possibly be for the benefit of the sick, poor and downtrodden because the are the ones being oppressed.

We were born into anarchy but they told us that if we didn't have a State we would have tyranny. So we gave them a State because they promised to protect us but all they have done is give us tyranny.

I want my anarchy back. I'd rather take my chances with a band of common marauders than a squad of highly trained cops with god complexes. I'd rather go to my neighbors for help than trust some corporate bought-and-paid for politician who steals my dollars and expects me to gratefully vote for them when they hand me pennies.

Everything we're complaining about comes from the State -- and yet we're dumb enough to think a newer, shinier (more controlling) State will save us. There comes a time when, like all addicts, we have to admit we are doing it to ourselves.

Screw the State. No, better yet -- destroy it. Not with riots and violence, just walk away. The State is a parasite, it needs a host. Just walk away. Don't work for a politician's campaign so he can work for your neighbor between corporate-sponsored golfing junkets, work for your neighbor. Don't wait for the MIC to make peace, you make peace.

Or carry on as before, just stop complaining about it because I haven't even had coffee yet.

[Blue_Adept]

1. Every country goes through a revolution during the course of its existence

The average, I believe, is every 200 years depending on the setup of it. We're past due for one.

But apparently that's me advocating violence.

All I know is that the "peaceful" way we've been trying to change things for decades isn't working. It's time to try something new.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

5. Revolutions are just another ruse to fool us. The screaming, "down with the king" the loudest

only want the throne for themselves.

[el_bryanto]

7. Than how does a society progress in your opinion? nt

[Nuclear Unicorn]

17. Progress towards what? Society is a construct people come together to live their lives.

Do we want McMansions for all or safe, stable, warm houses to raise our families?

I'm guessing the latter, which makes me wonder how voting for corporate stooges living in McMansions thousands of miles away have any interest in actually building homes.

All we have gotten in exchange for the police state is a bigger police state.

But HEY! It's progress, right?

[Katashi_itto]

2. Pretty much. I got screamed at because I sat out Mary's run off election. Most people here have no

clue of how corrupt the system has become. They still think it can be fixed.

[TreasonousBastard]

8. I don't think you should have sat it out, but I'm not going to scream at you...

or otherwise judge you. You did what you had to do. And who am I to talk-- I sat out the NY Governor's election because I think the one we have is a complete shit, but the alternative was far worse.

I get the impression that a great many posters here aren't actually involved in politics, but still think they know what's going on. I'm on our local Democratic committee and have run for office, so I see it from the inside. The deals we have to make, the concessions we make, and the times we have to bite our tongues just to get a little of what we want are enough to drive most of us out. And the money... One wonders why any normal, and qualified, person would want to get involved.

The system has in the past been far more corrupt than it is now, but it somehow survived. Part of the problem is that I see no workable alternatives, so it goes on. And on.

And we go on.

[Live and Learn]

3. Revolutions are always ugly and many people are hurt by them.

And their outcomes are uncertain. They should always be a last resort.

Are we there? I don't think so and I hope not but if things don't change, I think it will happen.

If so, it won't be pretty and it won't be quick. And in the end, we don't know what kind of government we will get.

Yet, the way things are can't continue. It is pretty frightening either way.

[hifiguy]

39. The desirability of a violent revolution is dubious at best.

But the words of John Kennedy keep circling through my head these days, and he observed that "those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable." And even if there is a peaceful revolution, in the greater sense, it will not be complete until the banksters and their ilk are removed from society violently and permanently and the fruits of their thievery returned to the people.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

6. I like public roads. and libraries and firefighters. And lots of other public endeavours.

Big things take coordinated big effort, and getting rid of 'the state' is not going to leave us at the mercy of 'common marauders'. It will leave us at the mercy of corporate marauders.

The 1% would love for the rest of us to 'destroy the state' and remove whatever remaining vestiges of power we have, and leave them able to run and own everything completely unchecked, rather than having to spend enormous amounts of time and effort buying and corrupting a changing cast of 'state' operatives.

It may be a war we're losing, but the 'stateless' alternative is absolute 'might makes right' and we aren't the ones with the might. At least we can make occasional wins within the 'state' framework.

[A Little Weird]

9. +1

[KingCharlemagne]

13. "Getting rid of the state" would put us back into a quasi-feudal

milieu, pre-1648, where local barons and potentates ruled small fiefdoms at the expense of a large central authority. That was great if you were a Medici or Michelangelo, but not so great if you were a peasant or urban worker.

Had I to choose, I believe I would pick your corrupted 'state' over neo-feudalism (for the reasons you articulate). But I would prefer my 'state' be democratic socialist and not capitalist. Tall order, I know

[Pacifist Patriot]

16. "Getting rid of the state" is just too close for comfort to...

the Tea Party desire to "starve the beast" for me. I think you may very well be right. The consequences of a stateless society smack of dystopia far more than utopia.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

20. Tell me about the wonderful infrastructure.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

22. Wonderful?

We don't have magic wormhole travel.

We have crumbling infrastructure that needs serious amounts of repair. But we sure as hell won't get it without 'the state'. We'll get 'private roads' at far higher tolls at best.

You want to live 'without a state', feel free to move to Somalia, and tell us all how 'wonderful' it is.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

24. How could toll roads be built without the property owner's permission and how could the tolls be

enforced without the police state?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

29. Might makes right, remember.

Without a 'state', the 'property owners' will be whoever raises the biggest armies, and each little warlord will enforce their own tolls.

Here's a hint - you'll be a peasant like the rest of us.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

31. Why would you stand idly by and allow that?

It's no different than standing idly by (or worse, supporting) as the System imprisons 1/3 of a minority population (Hint -- because we voted for them to have the biggest army).

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

32. Stand idly by and allow it?

I'd probably be dead, like so many others. In failed states, the weak are murdered with impunity by the strong. You're advocating social darwinism.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

35. I'm advocating an end to slavery, war and corruption.

You got your roads and libraries and that's all you need while others are imprisoned, beaten, made homeless and killed (but it's the marauders we should fear).

Everyone has their price, I suppose. Have you read any good books lately? Was it a pleasant enough drive to the library?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

36. You're advocating for people to be beaten, imprisoned, made homeless and killed

by other that state actors.

Don't pretend the lack of a state would create utopia. You just want to put the blame on one set of people, not a different set.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

45. But the marauders would be met as equals, not as wardens.

Thought Experiment --

6 white men are choking an unarmed, non-violent black man to death in broad daylight in the middle of the street. Your response is __________.

6 white men -- with badges -- are choking an unarmed, non-violent black man to death in broad daylight in the middle of the street. Your response is __________.

[hifiguy]

40. When the two conflict, human rights should always trump property rights.

Property rights have their place, but not at the expense of massive human suffering.

It's the US form of capitalism that has to go and go now. Democratic socialism is the only plausible way forward.

[arcane1]

51. Bingo.

Getting people off their asses, and getting them invested and involved, is the way to go. Of course, that's damn near impossible to do, but if it doesn't come from the bottom up, it's going to be crap.

[stone space]

10. Just poured mine.

And I haven't even had coffee yet.

Haven't taken my first sip, yet.

[FSogol]

11. Unrec. Walking away doesn't destroy the state, it merely hands it to the corporate

marauders and their lackeys. Quitting allows your opponent to win. Taking your ball and going home might have worked when you were six, but adults know better.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

18. Thank you for saying this in a nicer way than I could've.

The smugness ... must be nice. And, yes OPs like this were why I liked the UnRec option.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

19. Your beloved state just voted 9-0 to allow a corporations to not pay people.

[FSogol]

21. Yeah, that's exactly what that decision did.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

23. 'beloved' to go with 'wonderful'?

You do realize that pretty much everyone here realizes that the state is deeply flawed and corrupt, right? We just haven't been offered anything better. You might want to live in Mad Max land, but most of the rest of us wouldn't last a week.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

26. That is the bogeyman meant to keep you frightened and dependent. The people will not tolerate

marauders but the State has dressed marauders in business suits and sent the police to defend them while they empty your 401k and repossess your home.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

30. At this point

I've got to quit replying, or I'll say something that will earn me a second hide. And you're not worth it. Toodles.

[Half-Century Man]

12. Ever since the Mike Brown GJ announcement, I've started each morning

wondering "Why not tequila instead of coffee?".

The solution was simple, make coffee with tequila. Tastes like crap, but I'm awake and relaxed at the same time.

[KingCharlemagne]

15. Or, as Dorothy Parker once quipped, "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me

Than a frontal lobotomy!"

[treestar]

14. Be careful what you'd rather

Cops can be indicted and are subject to the law. Common marauders aren't. Especially if you're going to have no state.

[Eleanors38]

25. The state won't wither away under the FR...

it's assets will go over to corporate power, and police forces (public & private) will expand and consolidate to keep a tight lid on the stink.

The FR has no intention of relinquishing power. There has to be opposition whose foundation recognizes public ownership and control because there won't be another foundation available.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

28. We tolerate corporations because the State says we must obey "The System"

But if there was no system, if there were no militarized police to guard the gated communities, would the Robber Barons be so bold to cheat masses of people?

[Eleanors38]

33. Yes, they would continue their actions.

If we take them at their word, the private sector is All. They would quickly organize their own forces from ground-up private armies to the coopting of state forces.

We are fully in a corporate state in which corporations fully believe in their ideology that private power is a superior way; the rest is execution and clean up.

There's no where to run, no running home to Mother. The corporate state awaits even there.

[Autumn]

27. Here, have a cup of coffee

and a rec. it's been a while now that I can't bring myself to give a flying fuck about keeping this system. Look at who it benefits and look who keeps it going while they pretend that we people matter.

[Eleanors38]

34. We are in a corporate state. There is no opposition to it. nt

[Quantess]

38. I bet you don't even give a flying hoot about owls.

[hifiguy]

41. Owls = the coolest of all birds

[Quantess]

42. Yeeah.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/magic-of-the-snowy-owl-video-hatching-owlets/7961/

[hifiguy]

43. Aww, little owls.

Snowy owls are beautiful creatures.

[Quantess]

48. So cute!! Owls are good predators

unlike humans who tend to be very destructive predators.

[brooklynite]

44. But what about the sheep stories?

Not to be flippant, but I suspect the average American (not the sort that hangs out on a political blog) hasn't quite given up the way you appear to have.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

46. "Given up"? I feel more certain than I ever dared imagine I could feel.

[Quantess]

49. What sheep stories?

You mean ISIS' preference for "meeting" a sheep against the edge of a cliff?

Edit to clarify: it's a joke about sexist muslim sheepherding cultures.

[brooklynite]

50. I was thinking about the sheep in the water found in Omaha...

...and returned to his owner.

Concerned citizens.

[LuvNewcastle]

47. Humanity has always organized.

It's in our nature. There are always some people who resist organization, but by and large, most people accept it and prefer it. Whether we have a tribal society, a dictatorship, an oligarchy, or a republic, the principle is the same -- that is, to keep order so that we have stability. That's important because we like to make plans. We make plans so that we can achieve progress, whatever it is that we agree to accomplish. People have a yearning to accomplish things, otherwise they feel that life is pointless and they get depressed and then life isn't pleasant at all.

So these organizations that we make lead to divisions of labor. Ultimately, someone or group of people become responsible for the security of the organization from outside threats. This is what government does in its most basic form; it protects its people from others who might do them harm and/or take their possessions.

Governments will always be with us as long as the strong take advantage of the weak and as long as people take things that don't belong to them. If we ever come to the point where we're all able to freely share what we have with everyone else, the need for government might disappear. Humanity is a long way from that point, however, and we aren't alone in the animal kingdom. Maybe one day we'll be at that point, but we've been stuck here for all of recorded history. We know more about our world and our universe than we did when the first records were taken, but we are essentially the same as we've ever been.