In the eyes of the World, we are now an outlaw nation.

[another_liberal]

We have been coming to this for decades, but the crimes detailed and admitted to in the Senate's (heavily redacted) torture report are surely the straw that broke the camel's back. The United States is now seen by friend and foe alike as a nation which has put itself above international law. We are outlaws within the community of nations.

Facing justice: UN, HRW, Amnesty call for prosecuting US officials for torture.


The UN and prominent human rights groups have demanded justice for CIA torture victims, urging to prosecute the responsible US officials listed in the Senate’s report. The Justice Department says it will not pursue charges, even after seeing the report. The calls for justice come after the US Senate Intelligence Committee released its long-awaited congressional report on Tuesday, which details the CIA’s use of so-called enhanced interrogation techniques on prisoners in the wake of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

"As a matter of international law, the US is legally obliged to bring those responsible to justice," the UN's special rapporteur on counter-terrorism and human rights, Ben Emmerson, said in a statement issued in Geneva. "The US Attorney General is under a legal duty to bring criminal charges against those responsible. It is now time to take action. The individuals responsible for the criminal conspiracy revealed in today's report must be brought to justice, and must face criminal penalties commensurate with the gravity of their crimes." Emmerson added that the released report confirmes what the international community has suspected for a long time. “There was a clear policy orchestrated at a high level within the [George W.] Bush administration, which allowed to commit systematic crimes and gross violations of international human rights law," the UN official said.

Amnesty International also called for accountability, stressing that the report shows that the CIA was committing illegal acts “from day one.” The CIA program "gave the green light to commit the crimes under international law of torture and enforced disappearance – with impunity. It’s time for accountability, including a full investigation, prosecutions and remedy for victims," the executive director of Amnesty’s US branch, Steven Hawkins, said. “Torture is a crime and those responsible for crimes must be brought to justice,” he added.

The report "shows the repeated claims that harsh measures were needed to protect Americans are fiction," Human Rights Watch executive director Kenneth Roth said, calling to prosecute those responsible. “Unless this important truth-telling process leads to prosecution of the officials responsible, torture will remain a 'policy option' for future presidents."

(snip)



Read more at: http://rt.com/usa/212935-un-us-justice-torture/




Update:


Here is a current interview with the United Nations' Special Rapporteur for Torture, Juan Mendez. His replies to RT's questions are revealing, to say the least.

Juan Mendez, UN Special Rapporteur for Torture (AFP Photo)


UN: ‘We won’t take ‘no’ for an answer, CIA torture must be investigated’


The release of the so-called CIA torture report will likely create momentum that will lead to justice, UN special rapporteur for torture Juan Mendez told RT. He said the UN will not “take no for an answer” and that each torturous act must be investigated.

The damning report on CIA torture has forced Poland to finally admit that it hosted a secret American prison, with former President Aleksander Kwasniewski coming forward with the revelation. However, Kwasniewski claimed that Polish officials were not informed of the torture tactics being used in the secret jail.

RT asked Mendez to comment on the possible further developments; he insisted that countries complicit in the CIA torture need to carry out their own investigations.

Juan Mendez: I think in fact not only Poland, but many countries cooperated in this immoral, unfair, and illegal practice. And all countries have a responsibility to investigate and come clean. It’s a little hard to believe the president of Poland – he admitted that he allowed the use of secret detention centers for extraordinary renditions and didn’t know that torture happened in that context. I mean, why else would anybody be taken to a secret detention center if it’s not to be tortured? I think all countries that have participated in this should borrow a leaf from the US Senate Committee on Intelligence and come clean; do an honest, thorough, complete, and impartial investigation of what went on during the extraordinary renditions and the use of black sites.

(snip)

Read the rest of this fascinating interview at: http://rt.com/op-edge/213331-un-rapporteur-cia-torture/

[merrily]

1. It may be worse now, but people in other countries have thought we are outlaws

for a long time. I guess their media hasn't been dwelling on whether Selena and Justin are together this week or who Angelina was wearing as much as ours does.

Iching posted a good article about what to keep in mind as you read the report.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5929038

[LiberalElite]

2. It's possible that

they don't even know who the Kardashians are!

[merrily]

4. Kim's done Dubai, more than once I think.

[another_liberal]

7. Thanks for the link . . .

Iching gave us a good summary.

[merrily]

10. Yep. His OPs are always very worthwhile, IMO.

[yeoman6987]

83. I wonder if they will refuse our aid and money?

If they really want to send a message. That would be a good one. No money from the United States. The UN should refuse money from us too. That would get some attention. Would it work?

[merrily]

90. A stranger refusing to take your money would make you improve your behavior?

I just say, thanks.

[yeoman6987]

91. Well these countries are not strangers

They are the ONLY ones that can embarrass the United States. Yes it is drastic but it is blood money now.

[merrily]

92. Yes, they are. Embarrass the US? Yes, that's what guides our realpolitik.

Yes it is drastic but it is blood money now.

It's always been blood money. This is not the first wrong thing we've done, nor the hugest. See Reply 1 again.

[yeoman6987]

93. Oh my God! You are right

Always has been blood money. Wow. That is something to ponder even though you are so right.

[merrily]

95. Torture by the US is not about whether other countries take US aid

that the US very much wants them to take.

There are plenty of times and threads for that.

[DetlefK]

3. Great. Now even a country where journalists get assassinated gets to criticize the US.

[merrily]

5. If only there were some way we could have avoided that.

[robinlynne]

37. like counting the votes.

[another_liberal]

6. Do the UN, Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International "assassinate" journalists?

If so, that is certainly news to me!

[DetlefK]

14. A said "country" and RT is the russian version of Fox News.

[another_liberal]

19. Whom are they quoting?

Are you denying the truth of what RT is reporting here?

[DetlefK]

21. I don't deny anything. I call RT hypocrites.

[another_liberal]

57. If trashing RT is all you want to do . . .

Write your own OP and do so there. That is not what this OP is about.

[LanternWaste]

64. Much as if defending the RT is all you want to do...

Much as if defending the RT is all you want to do... Nor is that what the OP is about

(six of one, half a dozen of the other, you see)

[another_liberal]

71. My OP has a very clear topic . . .

The international response to the Senate's torture report.

I refuse to apologize for my choice of sources, and I will not bow to your attempts to censor me. Got it?

[War Horse]

68. No, but the Russian authorities do

All the orgs you list here have given evidence of this numerous times. RT is a Russian state run TV channel. How anyone can take RT seriously is beyond me.

[reorg]

69. "Russian authorities" assassinate journalists?

And "all the orgs" mentioned in the article in the OP, namely the UN and some NGOs, have "given evidence of this"?

Wow, makes me wonder why Congress needs to pass resolutions urging the President to further increase the funding of CIA-connected propaganda outfits such as "RFE" and "Voice of America".

Here is what the UN Special Rapporteur actually said, on the actual topic at hand, concise and clear, without further distractions:

International law prohibits the granting of immunities to public officials who have engaged in acts of torture. This applies not only to the actual perpetrators but also to those senior officials within the US Government who devised, planned and authorised these crimes.

As a matter of international law, the US is legally obliged to bring those responsible to justice. The UN Convention Against Torture and the UN Convention on Enforced Disappearances require States to prosecute acts of torture and enforced disappearance where there is sufficient evidence to provide a reasonable prospect of conviction. States are not free to maintain or permit impunity for these grave crimes.

It is no defence for a public official to claim that they were acting on superior orders. CIA officers who physically committed acts of torture therefore bear individual criminal responsibility for their conduct, and cannot hide behind the authorisation they were given by their superiors.

However, the heaviest penalties should be reserved for those most seriously implicated in the planning and purported authorisation of these crimes. Former Bush Administration officials who have admitted their involvement in the programme should also face criminal prosecution for their acts.

President Obama made it clear more than five years ago that the US Government recognises the use of waterboarding as torture. There is therefore no excuse for shielding the perpetrators from justice any longer. The US Attorney General is under a legal duty to bring criminal charges against those responsible.

Torture is a crime of universal jurisdiction. The perpetrators may be prosecuted by any other country they may travel to. However, the primary responsibility for bringing them to justice rests with the US Department of Justice and the Attorney General.

Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights

If the US don't act, they can babble about bad, bad Putin all day long but nobody will listen.

[NuclearDem]

96. 56 journalists killed in Russia since 1992.

And if you don't think the Russian government had something to do with at least the assassination of one that aired all its dirty laundry about torture in Chechnya, then you're hopelessly naive.

http://cpj.org/killed/2006/anna-politkovskaya.php

[reorg]

100. Actually, it says 36 since 1992

http://cpj.org/killed/europe/russia/murder.php

and nothing about the specific claim by the previous poster that these murders were carried out by "Russian authorities" and that "the orgs" mentioned in the OP such as the UN allegedly had provided evidence for this.

In the Philippines, a much smaller country, 75 journalists were killed in the same time frame according to your source.

What any of this has to do with the objective and fair report about the CIA torture report and pertinent statements by UN representatives, Amnesty International and HRW escapes me.

Here is an "Op-Edge" RT article on Anna Politkovskaya, BTW: http://rt.com/op-edge/165348-russia-politkovskaya-court-verdict/

[NuclearDem]

101. No, it's 56 killed.

http://cpj.org/killed/europe/russia/

Murdered doesn't take into account the absolutely reckless nature by which Russian and Chechen forces targeted civilians, including journalists.

Do you really believe the murder of Russian journalists exposing that country's crimes in Chechnya or the rampant corruption in government had absolutely nothing to do with Russian authorities?

Wait, I see you've linked to RT. My point is made for me.

[reorg]

102. I cited the rather sympathetic report on Anna Politkovskaya

so you can see for yourself what your "point" is worth.

Sorry, I still don't see where the UN provided evidence that Russian authorities are killing journalists. Do I believe it is possible that government agencies had a hand in some murders? Of course, whenever critics of government policies die an unnatural death I get suspicious.

So, what is your argument again? RT must not report on official findings about systematic torture and killings by US government authorities and on the fact that the current US government refuses to prosecute those responsible, because ...

[War Horse]

63. Very relevant point

But even a blind squirrel etc.

[GliderGuider]

8. Actually you have been for a while now.

But now you've shown the world the evidence. The big change is that now you can no longer deny you're a rogue nation.

[another_liberal]

12. The Invasion of Iraq without cause in 2003 was enough proof for me . . .

Others may have taken more convincing.

[Enthusiast]

33. The worst was the way they sold Iraq on TV. With Condi Rice's mushroom cloud warning

and the rest. I knew it was fake then. Just as I suspect they allowed 911 to happen and could have stopped it at any time.

[PatSeg]

42. I remember

how obvious their lies were back then, but the biggest shock for me was how many people bought their BS.

[davekriss]

43. Training the El Salvadorean Death Squads in Honduras back in the early eighties was enough for me

This from Steve Kangas back in the nineties (before he was "suicided" by the PTB):

CIA operations follow the same recurring script. First, American business interests abroad are threatened by a popular or democratically elected leader. The people support their leader because he intends to conduct land reform, strengthen unions, redistribute wealth, nationalize foreign-owned industry, and regulate business to protect workers, consumers and the environment. So, on behalf of American business, and often with their help, the CIA mobilizes the opposition. First it identifies right-wing groups within the country (usually the military), and offers them a deal: "We'll put you in power if you maintain a favorable business climate for us." The Agency then hires, trains and works with them to overthrow the existing government (usually a democracy). It uses every trick in the book: propaganda, stuffed ballot boxes, purchased elections, extortion, blackmail, sexual intrigue, false stories about opponents in the local media, infiltration and disruption of opposing political parties, kidnapping, beating, torture, intimidation, economic sabotage, death squads and even assassination. These efforts culminate in a military coup, which installs a right-wing dictator. The CIA trains the dictator’s security apparatus to crack down on the traditional enemies of big business, using interrogation, torture and murder. The victims are said to be "communists," but almost always they are just peasants, liberals, moderates, labor union leaders, political opponents and advocates of free speech and democracy. Widespread human rights abuses follow.

This scenario has been repeated so many times that the CIA actually teaches it in a special school, the notorious "School of the Americas." (It opened in Panama but later moved to Fort Benning, Georgia.) Critics have nicknamed it the "School of the Dictators" and "School of the Assassins." Here, the CIA trains Latin American military officers how to conduct coups, including the use of interrogation, torture and murder.

The Association for Responsible Dissent estimates that by 1987, 6 million people had died as a result of CIA covert operations. (2) Former State Department official William Blum correctly calls this an "American Holocaust."

Link http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.html

[another_liberal]

44. I was young (and naive) enough then to buy into the lies and excuses . . .

The "Red Menace" was going to parachute troops onto our high school football fields, and steal all of our televisions, cars and refrigerators!

By the time George W. came along, I had a bit more knowledge and lot less credulity.

[reddread]

9. they were the first to know

this is about us facing what we have done to them.

[SidDithers]

11. RT. LOL...

What a bunch of fucking hypocrites the Russian government is.



Sid

[another_liberal]

17. Calls for prosecution from the United Nations, Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International . . .

Have got to outweigh one's personal dislike of a given news source. This is a very important story, Sid, surely you must agree?

[Electric Monk]

52. Ok, how about The Guardian and Associated Press? Gonna rofl at that too?

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/09/torture-cia-amnesty-international-human-rights-watch

[merrily]

13. Jose Rodriquez on This Morning now.

[HereSince1628]

15. Is that really a change in attitude for much of the world?

What's changed is here at home. This morning it's harder to support domestic belief in ourselves as the good guys.

But, we'll get past this, because we really already are, the problem is these awkward moments of self-awareness

Being a hideous torturing ogre only bothers you if you have mirrors.

[Live and Learn]

16. I don't think the world

or even most Americans were blind to this. It wasn't well hidden to begin with.

Unfortunately, many Americans have exposed the 'ugly American' stereotype to have more than a little truth and continue to do so as they try to negate the impact of this report.

[another_liberal]

18. Do you really think it's possible to "negate" what this report details?

I doubt it very much.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

20. The first step is admitting you have a problem.

You can't ever get better if you simply deny it. Yes, there is stigma with people find out you did terrible things, but you have to realize what you did is wrong, admit it, and atone for it and never do it again.

It's out, let the prosecutions for war crimes begin.

[marym625]

22. Unless you only pay attention to MSM

In AmuriKKKa, much of this was already known by us. My hope is that with the report, will come enough international pressure to finally try some people for war crimes. Starting with Dick Cheney.

We let the world know we know. Now we have to let the world know we give a shit.

[stonecutter357]

23. RT. LOL

[Thespian2]

24. I will believe

the USA government gives a shit about all the crimes committed when Dick Cheney is sitting naked in a bare concrete cell along side a bucket filled with his excrement.

[randome]

25. This is getting to be ludicrous.

Not only are you trying to spread Putin's propaganda by linking to RT, but America is not the number of the beast.

In the past few days, I've read that we are worse than Nazis (worse, mind you! ) but that we deserve to all hang our heads in eternal shame and beg forgiveness from the rest of the world and that America's days are now less numbered than before (heavy math, eh?) and that all the other nations now consider us to be less than excrement.

All because of the excesses of a previous administration.

Good God, let the chips fall where they may but this rending of garments is becoming both juvenile and disturbing.

Hint: the vast majority of Americans have nothing to be ashamed about! My daughters have nothing to be ashamed about! I am not ashamed. I would like there to be consequences for what occurred but I'm not going to paint my head with ashes and spend the rest of my life accepting the sins of others as my own.

And neither should anyone on DU.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A ton of bricks, a ton of feathers, it's still gonna hurt.[/center][/font][hr]

[ReRe]

30. So, we're not all in this together? n/t

[randome]

34. Your sins are not mine and vice-versa. I'm not your Jesus and you're not mine.

Why stop at the border? Should I hang my head in shame for what happens in Mexico? Venezuela? Canada?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

[ReRe]

35. Sounds a bit...

... Me-Me-Me, randome.

[randome]

38. So does 'outlaw nation'. Except it's 'we-we-we'.

'We' didn't torture anyone. You didn't. The blame and the sins should be at the feet of those who did.

It's like blaming a corporation for a decision the CEO makes.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]

[Scootaloo]

80. Do you oppose or support the use of torture?

[randome]

88. My opinion doesn't matter in the context of the OP.

'We' are not a nation of outlaws. Bush, Junior and his minions are the outlaws.

But to set your mind at ease, I oppose torture in all circumstances. How could you think otherwise? I have yet to see anyone on DU say differently.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[Scootaloo]

94. Good. So those who employed and authorized torture ought to face charges?

[randome]

105. In a just world, yes. But we don't live there.

Add to that the stain of politics and I don't see it happening. I would have no problem being wrong on that score.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]

[Scootaloo]

112. So, for political expediency, our nation is letting them get away with it.

Laws don't apply, even to the most heinous of crimes, because, eh, it might be a little messy to try to enforce them.

"Outlaw nation" is well-earned.

[randome]

115. I see it more as being in the grip of a cultural ice age.

We are STILL -thirty five years later- in the shadow of Reagan and his cohorts. The country has become too conservative for rational voices to gain any ground. It's always "HATE! HATE! HATE!" from our intellectual inferiors.

And that makes politics an important concern because it is politics that keeps us from advancing as a culture. No one is going to prosecute Bush and Cheney while the GOP has the strength of numbers to stop it.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game. -Existenz[/center][/font][hr]

[another_liberal]

47. No one requires anyone to read my posts . . .

Though I will say that if they bother one so much, one definitely does need to.

[randome]

109. Really? So someone telling you we don't appreciate Russian propaganda on this site...

...is not to be listened to because you are the only arbiter of what is correct. Nice objectivity you have going there.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.[/center][/font][hr]

[another_liberal]

110. Me?

Well, my day started with feeding the feral cat I've sort of adopted. She is a little grey thing who showed up last Summer as just a kitten. She has incredibly beautiful eyes, the color of tangerine life savers. Still hasn't let me get any closer than about ten feet away, but I do hope to get her shots and spayed some day soon.

You have a great day too, randome. Bye for now.

[randome]

111. Whoah. Did not see that one coming. Kitties win the debate every time.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

[another_liberal]

113. Hey, if you and others are going feel free to indulge in off-topic tangents . . .

Why should I be constrained to follow the rules.

[TBF]

26. NOW? For many countries

we've been a problem for awhile. We spend tons on the military and have more weapons than all the other countries put together.

[arcane1]

61. No kidding, ask any South American country n/t

[leftynyc]

27. RT?

For Heaven's sake, it's bad enough without you trying to shame 330 million Americans (the vast majority who had nothing to do with the torture) using this piece of shit source.

[polly7]

29. Is reporting the TRUTH from a sourse you hate really worse than

trying to use the lying, bought and paid for MSM to bullshit 7 billion people around the world to invade and destroy an innocent, sovereign nation and torture and murder, make homeless, desperate and hopeless millions of people?

[leftynyc]

31. More hyperbolic nonsense

There are THOUSANDS of sources the poster could have used that are more reliable, more trustworthy, and not as hypocritical as RT. I wouldn't believe RT to tell me if it were daytime. I'm as disgusted as everyone else about what was released yesterday, our grandchildren will have to live with the stain caused by that administration. But I don't personally feel any shame - I didn't vote for them, I demonstrated against them and I have nothing to apologize for and wont let posters here try and convince me I do.

[randome]

32. There is no truth from this link because there are no facts.

It's an opinion piece masquerading as truth. In other words, propaganda.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

[another_liberal]

49. Heaven can kiss my ass . . .

As to this article being "shit," as you quaintly term it, you are actually saying that about the United Nations, Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch.

[leftynyc]

51. No - I'm actually saying that about RT

And I was quite clear as to what I was referring to. As it's usually juveniles who like to shove words into people's mouths, I would think that would be above anyone here. Apparently not. Would it have been too difficult to find another publication that could also quote the UN, AI or HRW? Apparently so. That you find rt a reliable source tells me all I need to know.

[another_liberal]

54. If you must bash Russia Today . . .

Please write your own post and discuss that topic there. Thank you.

[leftynyc]

56. I believe I'll post wherever

I damn well please. If you don't like it, start your own board.

[another_liberal]

58. Then you are being intentionally "Off Topic."

That is in violation of DU rules of usage. Doesn't that matter to you?

[leftynyc]

65. LOL - it's not like

I started picking on rt out of the blue. YOU used it as a source and I commented on the source YOU used. If you think that's off topic, that's your problem.

[Electric Monk]

59. Ok then, you'll prefer The Guardian. Here you go.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/09/torture-cia-amnesty-international-human-rights-watch

[leftynyc]

66. I've actually already read it from

a dozen different sources, none of which was apparently good enough for the OP. But I thank you for going through the trouble.

[treestar]

28. There are a few nations who could talk

But a lot of the world can't. They don't even have freedom of the press or freedom of speech.

[The2ndWheel]

36. The US has always been above international law

Because the US is the one that built and maintains the international system. Who else is going to do it? The US doesn't get bombed by the US military, and it doesn't get economically sanctioned by the UN.

I wouldn't worry too much about what international opinions are from friend and foe alike. Our friends have been pretty happy that the US taxpayer has been paying for a global military, while they can use their citizens money for their social programs. As for foes? Who? Russia and China? They have moral high grounds to stand on?

[myomy]

39. Would this had happened if we had a "free press"?

Like Pravda in the USSR years ago, our corporate media only tells you what they want you to hear.

[hifiguy]

48. This point cannot be stressed enough.

The M$M have been compliant lapdogs in service to those in power since the Reagan years.

[The Wizard]

40. The Whole World is Watching (NT)

[KingCharlemagne]

41. My wife pointed out to me yesterday that, should we need to flee this

country in the event of a Republican Party consolidation of the one-party state after 2016, our prospects abroad are now dimmed, since anyone abroad can rightly view us as a nation of 'rogues' and 'torturers.' My experience in Europe back in the 80s was that Europeans did not hold Americans personally responsbile for the crimes of Reagan (nor for Vietnam before that), but attitudes may have hardened by now, such that Americans are held collectively responsible for the actions and policies of the fascists we enabled and put into power.

Something for those contemplating self-imposed exile to consider, I suppose.

[another_liberal]

50. If it comes to what you suggest . . .

My family has lived in the United States since before it was even called the United States. If it comes to what you suggest, I'll stay and try to join the undergound resistance (there is bound to be one somewhere).

[Kalidurga]

60. There is one but it's not really underground

The Occupy movement, the protests that have been ongoing since Fergusson was put on the map by a murdering cop.

[another_liberal]

108. More power to "Occupy!"

They are all special heroes of mine.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

45. Also here. Guardian UK for those fond of shooting the messenger.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/09/torture-cia-amnesty-international-human-rights-watch

[another_liberal]

53. Thank you . . .

Though I doubt the real RT-haters will even understand.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

55. Here's another. NYT

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/10/world/europe/overseas-torture-report-prompts-calls-for-prosecution.html

[hifiguy]

46. That's been the case since Vietnam.

Nothing new here. Just more confirmation of what has long been known.

[Initech]

62. I'm not normally one to grave dance....

But the day Dick Cheney's excuse for a heart finally explodes out of his chest, I will be there with tap dancing shoes on. And I couldn't tap dance if my life depended on it.

[lumberjack_jeff]

67. In the eyes of *most americans*, we're an outlaw nation... and proud of it.

[another_liberal]

107. Yeah, many still believe anything "Our boys in uniform" do has just got to be justified . . .

Sad, isn't it?

[arely staircase]

70. da

A u vas negrov linchuyut,

[another_liberal]

76. Spreek Engrish . . .

How's bout dat?

[NuclearDem]

72. Yes we are, but guess which country's state media arm has the least credibility to say so.

[another_liberal]

74. The article is almost nothing but direct quotes . . .

Direct quotes from people representing some of the most respected and revered humanitarian organizations in the World. Yet that is not good enough? What, exactly, would satisfy you?

[NuclearDem]

77. Direct quotes from respected humanitarian organizations...

...published on Russia's state media site.

If this had been a Guardian or even NYT article, I would've said nothing, but Russian state media has absolutely no moral high ground to run this kind of story.

[another_liberal]

78. Please try to stay on the topic of my OP . . .

Or write your own. This is a serious subject, not merely a chance for you to vent about your personal likes and dislikes.

Do you have anything to say about international reaction to release of the Senate torture report?

[NuclearDem]

81. My response was about international reaction to the report

by saying that Russian state media running a story about it is incredible hypocritical horseshit.

Again, if you had cited, perhaps, the Guardian or Der Spiegel, I wouldn't have said anything. But instead, you insist on giving page clicks to the mouthpiece of the bigot in the Kremlin.

Don't like people discussing your source? Don't use that source.

[another_liberal]

84. No, Nuclear, you are just bashing my source.

Please stop trying to highjack my OPs for your own purposes. Thank you.

[NuclearDem]

87. Well, your source deserves to be bashed.

Being, after all, the mouthpiece of one of the worst enemies of the LGBT community abroad, a warmongering imperialist, and a man who assassinates dissidents and journalists.

Love how you're trying to control how the discussion of your OP is going, though. Guess the RT is rubbing off on you.

[another_liberal]

97. Write your own OP . . .

I have asked you politely more than once.

[NuclearDem]

98. And if this were your site, that would mean something.

You're not going to get a circle jerk when you're linking to the mouthpiece of one of the worst totalitarians in the developed world.

Don't like the feedback? Tough shit. There's always the ignore function if I truly bother you that much.

[JEB]

73. K&R for exposure.

Thanks for posting. I am shocked at the posters objecting to the source but offering no opinion concerning the content. This is existentially important stuff for our nation. Bitching about a source is swatting at mosquitoes.

[another_liberal]

75. Thank you, JEB . . .

I think I understand why our Russophobes feel as they do, but I can not share such a narrow point of view.

[JEB]

82. Auto-reset from years of cold war propaganda?

While our own standards of behavior sink well into the criminal.

[another_liberal]

85. Who could have imagined we'd go through that again . . .

What a way to start off a new century.

[JEB]

86. We will probably build the wall this time, but

instead of in Berlin...maybe somewhere in Ukraine.

[another_liberal]

99. As a matter of fact . . .

I think our boys in Kiev have already announced they plan to do just that, along their entire border with Russia.

[Turbineguy]

79. Latency

It will take generations to fix the damage of the Bush-Cheney cabal.

[another_liberal]

103. Yes . . .

If even then.

[daredtowork]

89. We need to submit to an International Criminal Court

We shouldn't be above the moral laws we expect other countries to adhere to.

[another_liberal]

104. If we don't agree to punish our guilty . . .

Our former "Moral high ground" will continue to become something more akin to a pit of quick sand.

[woo me with science]

106. K&R

[woo me with science]

114. kick

[woo me with science]

116. kick