Why are we blaming the CIA? Or Bush? Or Obama?

[Derek V]

Or anybody other than those ultimately responsible? Do we even need to speculate?

We have Met the Enemy, as Pogo said.

good Night and sweet Mares.

[noise]

1. How does that work?

Government officials exploited 9/11 to justify a torture program. They helped sell the public on torture by way of unrelenting fearmongering and abuse of national security classification. In practice this allowed Cheney to spew bullshit claims about how torture was necessary while knowing full well the secrecy and propaganda would conceal his lies.

The leaders of this country took us all down a path of sadism. Sorry but your suggestion that the real blame is with the public is off base.

[delrem]

3. Perhaps it doesn't take a great deal to "sell the public on torture"

and on whatever war is called nowadays. Perhaps it's so easy, now, that none of this horror has to be "sold", it just has to be delivered up to feed an insatiable appetite for it.

[Recursion]

9. The public didn't need to be "sold" on torture; the public was pushing for it (nt)

[NewDeal_Dem]

2. Since the general public didn't know about it, I wonder why you think they carry the ultimate

responsibility?

Seems like a way to shift the blame from those ultimately responsible: the ones who gave the orders & told the lies.

[delrem]

4. Why? Because that public also likes to call itself "exceptional"

and to claim it has the moral authority to police and rule the world. Because it smugly pats itself on the back, and points fingers everywhere at enemies. Oddly enough, this gives some people the idea that the very same gung-ho public that cheers on every damn war and every damn atrocity has earned moral responsibility for what it has done and continues to do.

[Recursion]

10. The public knew damn well. Comedians made waterboarding jokes and people knew what they were saying

There are some particular details we didn't know that the Senate report is filling in, but the idea that Americans were just blithely ignorant that torture was happening is ludicrous. The government did it because the people wanted it to.

[sabrina 1]

5. Speak for yourself. I have opposed vehemently Cheney/Bush's evil

medieval torture policies from the moment they were exposed.

And EVERY DEMOCRAT I know opposed them also.

So who is this 'enemy' we have met? I know who the enemy is, and it is not the American people.

[840high]

6. Didn't some Dems know about

this and did nothing?

[sabrina 1]

7. Elected Dems? Yes, they did to their shame. But a whole lot of elected Dems

did speak out about it, did try to hold hearings, some, like Kucinich, called for impeachment and introduced bills on the floor asking for the impeachment of Bush/Cheney.

But you are right. Elected Dems did not speak out as loudly as they should have in general. But they WERE in the minority at that time.

And that is why we worked so hard to change that, and we did. And then we were told we were 'moving forward' from these crimes.

But I wasn't talking about elected Dems, I was talking about ordinary people who are Democrats.

[840high]

8. Sorry - I misunderstood. You

are correct.

[Hekate]

11. Where were YOU when DUers were opposing BushCheneyRumsfeld with every fiber of our beings...

....and I don't mean simply as the 101st Chairborne, but actually in the streets and every other way we could think of.

Where were YOU? Because quite frankly I don't feel responsible for this nightmare.

So take your little smiley face, and....turn it upside down.

[Quantess]

12. Whatever you do, DO NOT blame Dick Cheney and Dimson Bush!!!

Dick "Undead" Cheney had nothing to do with the systematic, unnecessary, sadistic, torture policies!!!

W. was a thoughtful, intellectual giant of a leader and would never allow this if he had known!!!

[Hekate]

13. it's a bit of a weird post for DU. It's almost like the OP doesn't really know our history here...

...and not for the first time.

[steve2470]

14. So wrong.....

Everyone at DU was opposed to Bush and torture. Many people were in the streets in 2003 and the invasion of Iraq still happened. The corporate media found ways to avoid covering the protests.

Sorry, I'm not taking the blame for that bullshit.