whoever the asshole who murdered those cops is sure changed the public discussion

[arely staircase]

didn't they?

[tradewinds]

1. They??

Do you know something the rest of us do not?

[arely staircase]

2. he, she, whomever nt

[arely staircase]

5. it would be downright unseemly to discuss police brutality now nt

[giftedgirl77]

13. There was a march last night in Harlem...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5989777

[Cali_Democrat]

7. The climate was pretty hostile prior to the killing on Saturday

Just ask Eric Garner, Tamir Rice and Michael Brown.

Oh you can't because they're dead, courtesy of cops.

[yeoman6987]

9. And we are talking a handful of dirty cops

Just like we are talking about a handful of cop killers.

[Cali_Democrat]

10. Not sure about that

Ever read the police message board posted here by Mr Scorpio? It's a place where cops discuss issues online.

It's more than just a handful of bad apples.

Racism is extremely prevalent in their ranks.

[elehhhhna]

16. self selected posters arent a good representation of the whole

But yeah. Cop blogs are nasty re baaaad in general. They sure love Limbaugh, also.

[sabrina 1]

18. 500 dead citizens every year by cop, is hardly a handful. To their loved ones

their lives mattered and still do.

Ever looked into the history of the NYPD regarding dirty cops, corruption etc?

Ask some of the whistle blowers whether it is just a 'handful' or not.

[Boreal]

39. More Americans killed by cops

in the past decade than all of the troops killed in Iraq. Sounds like a war on the people to me.

[former9thward]

44. There were 320 last year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States,_2013

Were they all innocent? Are there no justifiable shootings in your world?

[sabrina 1]

45. Funny how other civilized nations manage not to have their cops apply the death penalty

even when the perps are not all innocent.

The only time a shooting is justified is if the perp is armed and a threat to either the public or the cop.

Are there no deaths by cop that should not have happened in your world?

[notadmblnd]

19. it's not just a handful

everypone of their pals and buddies on the force that look the other way when leos commit their atrocities are every bit as guilty and the ones committing them.

[Katashi_itto]

21. A "handful" of dirty cops?....LOL!

[marmar]

4. No, opportunists like the PBA head and a worthless media have.

[giftedgirl77]

17. The marches continue, we just have to make sure

our message doesn't get conflated by those that want to squash it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5989777

[dissentient]

6. The guy was a nutcase

And all the right wingers saying this was the protesters fault are full of it. Those protesters who chanted for "dead cops" were a small group of anarchists. They don't represent the overwhelming number of protesters who were protesting against police brutaility anymore than the Phelps "God hates fags" gang represents right wing or anti-abortion protesters.

[arely staircase]

8. you you know that, I know that.......nt

[Aerows]

61. Nobody knows anything

I wasn't there, and presumably, neither were you.

[joeglow3]

12. It is politics and it is what turns people off

Look at how many people blamed Sarah palin for the Gifford shooting instead of blaming the nut job and access to guns.

[dissentient]

15. Yep, and its an ugly side of politics

and it's just dumb, and should be called out when these kinds of ridiculous things are said.

[Boreal]

40. That's how it always gets played

Doesn't it? DU or Dems have been quick to use the Phelps freaks to smear all Christians. Or some Klansman to smear any white gun owner. Conversely, Repukes use every black gang banger or criminal as an example of typical inner city blacks. No matter which side of the political divide people fall on, it's always okay when their side uses these distorted and absurd extrapolations but it's evil and unfair when the other side does it.

As for that demonstration and that chant; how does anyone know who the people in that crowd were? Why are they somehow not representative of more people? Not saying they are or aren't because I have no idea. Maybe a shit ton of people would like to see dead cops considering cops have murdered so many innocents. I know I would like to every single one of them who have murdered and innocent person or dog locked up for LIFE.

Anyway, generalizations are always fine (and true!) when demonizing your enemy but never when they do so to you.

[sabrina 1]

47. Ironic that you just did what you are complaining about.

DU or Dems have been quick to use the Phelps freaks to smear all Christians. Or some Klansman to smear any white gun owner.

Generalizations are never fine. Most DUers that I associate with do not smear 'all Christians', many of them ARE Christians. And afaik, few DUers even engage the gun 'wars' here.

So you just generalized about thousands of people who post here yourself.

[forthemiddle]

14. When the media shows protesters

chanting
"WHAT DO WE WANT" - "DEAD COPS"
"WHEN DO WE WANT IT" - "NOW"

That doesn't really help the protestors, or the message either.

I have seen that clip all weekend long (with captions), and that doesn't necessarily portray the peaceful protestors that should be shown.

[sabrina 1]

20. Have they identified those protesters? Because the movement itself has nothing to do with

those 'protesters'.

So who were they?

[forthemiddle]

23. I haven't a clue

But in the end that doesn't matter. Why? Because the media is lumping everyone together, and that is what the public is doing also!

My only point was that the public perception of the protests is not as "peaceful" as they may be when all they see is "WHAT DO YOU WANT" - "DEAD COPS" "WHEN DO YOU WANT IT" "NOW"!!!

Its all about perception.

Another aspect to all of this is that the majority of people DO NOT have bad experiences with cops. In small towns, the cops are the ones that are the first responders when you need help. They are the ones that are directing traffic. They are the ones that are comforting you after a minor fender bender. I realize this isn't the reality for many minorities, but it is the reality for the majority of Americans. They remember the policemen, and firemen that died in 9/11, and they are heroes. That isn't going to change to the viewing public. So when they see the protesters (whether the "real" protesters or not) calling for the death of police officers, and then two of them are killed, what perception will there be?

I am not explaining my thoughts very well, I'm afraid,. I am not saying anything about police brutality, which of course exists, I am just trying to say why the killing of those officers doesn't advance any cause. Which I think was the main point of the OP.

[sabrina 1]

26. Yes, it is all about perception. Which is why the question needs to be asked, 'who were

those protesters' working so hard to discredit the legitimate movement against cops killing African Americans at an alarming rate?

These protests need to continue and they need to grow because there is serious problem in this country.

It doesn't matter that a 'majority of Americans' have 'good' experiences with cops. Crime is crime and crimes have been committed by cops and they get away with it.

The murder of these two cops has nothing to do with why there are protests against police brutality. The fact that cops are attempting to connect the two, demonstrates how vehemently they will work to try to shut down those legitimate protests.

Most Americans haven't experienced murder, thankfully. Yet most Americans DO want murderers apprehended.

So regardless of what most Americans' experiences with cops may be, the fact is that when cops murder citizens, they are not held accountable, as they should be.

I would hate to think that we are a country where murder by cop of unarmed, innocent people is okay with a majority of the people.

[Niceguy1]

28. if they are at the protest

And participate then they are protesters, whether we like it or not.

[sabrina 1]

30. Really? If undercover cops are caught, as they were many times,

at protests, what were THEY protesting? Or were they 'working'?

I think we need to know who these 'protesters' are and what they were there to 'protest'.

They certainly weren't part of the legitimate protest.

[Niceguy1]

35. its pretty safe to say that they

Weren't cops. They may not represent the majority of the protesters, but they still are protesters at the protest.

[sabrina 1]

36. And how do you know this? I don't know who they were, or who 'instigated them'. It certainly

wasn't the legitimate protesters.

Whose interests were they serving? Qui Bono?

I think the answer to that is clear.

So until I see evidence to the contrary, my guess is they were working for the Police who are benefiting hugely, for now, in their effort to silence the people who want them to stop killing their loved ones.

You always have to figure out who benefits when it comes to these very convenient 'videos' etc. And it sure isn't the legitimate protesters.

[Niceguy1]

37. who has the power

To determine who is a "legitimate" protester and who isn't?

its not like this is the only protest that had an ugly side to it....

[sabrina 1]

49. It's definitely not the only protest that had infiltrators who were not part of it

attempting to create a bad image of the actual protesters. And many times, those infiltrators are working with the police.

It wouldn't be hard at all to find a bunch of rabid right wingers, friends of the cops eg, to go pretend to be part of the protests.

It's not hard to determine who is a legitimate protester for a particular cause and who is not.

Not sure why you think that is difficult at all.

[Niceguy1]

53. I see your line of

Thinking, anyone who does a bad thing during a protest isnt part of said protest! How convenient,!

[sabrina 1]

67. Anyone who goes to a protest to cause harm to the protesters is not part

of said protest. I see you are attempting to give criminals legitimacy simply for showing up where a protest is taking place. It doesn't work that way.

Eg, to be part of a protest one has to agree with the reasons for the protest and a vast majority of protesters know how those being protested have and will do anything to undermine them so will never engage in behavior that might damage their cause.

Those idiots have nothing to do with the protests against police brutality.

Have any of them been identified, arrested, appeared in court?

Who were they? One would think we would have some names by now. The cops arrest people for just standing on the sidewalk. It was noted during the OWS demonstrations that the so-ca;;ed 'anarchists' wearing black and damaging property, never were apprehended.

[Niceguy1]

70. five of the protesters

Who assaulted the police on the bridge have either been arrested or turned themselves in.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/12/21/fourth-suspect-arrested-in-brooklyn-bridge-protest-attack-on-nypd-lieutenants/

Sometimes protests do cross the line and get out of hand.. a nd when that happens they are still part of the protest.... that doesn't change because something bad happened.

[frankieallen]

66. so the cops in the crowd were chanting

"We want.dead cops" ?
I rather doubt it.

[sabrina 1]

69. Why would you doubt it? And they may not have been cops, just

stooges told what to do. It's not as if this would be something unusual in the history of protests in this country. Infiltrators have been exposed repeatedly at protests, OWS eg, and lately, the protests against police brutality.

[Katashi_itto]

22. Interesting your pushing a Right Wing Myth as if that's real. It tells us what you watch.

Fox & Friends Airs Misleading Footage To Suggest Al Sharpton Led Protesters Calling For "Dead Cops"
Fox's Clayton Morris: Al Sharpton Is "Calling To Kill Cops"

BLOG ››› December 14, 2014 4:32 PM EST ››› TIMOTHY JOHNSON

http://mediamatters.org/tags/tucker-carlson

[forthemiddle]

24. Is Fox the only channel that aired that?

I don't think so. I saw it on CNN, I heard it on the radio (I think it was an ABC affiliate), and I don't even watch FOX.

But believe what you want, and throw out the "right wing" mantra for anything anyone says that you don't like.

[Katashi_itto]

25. Yep, they were the only ones to air that. Enjoy your stay!

[ProdigalJunkMail]

29. NBC NY is a right wing source?

interesting...

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Eric-Garner-Manhattan-Dead-Cops-Video-Millions-March-Protest-285805731.html

is youtube right wing?

sP

[sabrina 1]

33. NBC is part of the Corporate Media. No more credible than the rest of our

Corporate Media. Who were those 'protesters'? Did the Corporate Media try to identify them or just use the 'pool video' handed to them by their Corporate Bosses?

I don't watch the Corporate Media ever since they all began to emulate Fox, AFTER the takeover by Corporations.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

38. ah, so trust no one...

gotcha. everyone is lying. spot on.

sP

[sabrina 1]

51. Oh no, thankfully there are sources that have a record of reporting facts. Just the Corporate

controlled media, they helped lie this country into war, remember and will never report anything that is negative about their bosses.

I guess you know that our media was taken over by six major Corporations and since then, we don't really get 'news'. No investigative reporters left on the Corporate media.

But there are plenty of sources which have been proven to be trustworthy over the years.

[cherokeeprogressive]

55. "plenty of sources which have been proven to be trustworthy over the years." Name some?

[sabrina 1]

59. Sources more credible than the Corporate Media? That should be easy for

any Democrat.

How about Democracy Now eg?

Or do you think the Corporate Media is trustworthy when reporting news?

[cherokeeprogressive]

60. "How about..." No concrete answer? I would have expected a post FULL of links.

I'm not surprised though, that I got a response that identified NOT ONE source... just a "how about".

I'll try this a different way then...

Define "corporate media". Would that mean any source in the game for the reason to make a profit?

[sabrina 1]

64. You got a concrete answer. If you are not aware of who owns

the MSM by now, not much I can do for you.

Fortunately we have access now to thousands of sources from across the globe, something the Corporations who bought up our media, six of them in all, probably didn't anticipate.

Democracy Now is just one of many sources that is far, far more trustworthy than the Corporate Media which is little more than a propaganda network run by Big Corps.

[840high]

54. Nope. Saw it on my

local news.

[sabrina 1]

31. CNN is Fox Lite. I wouldn't be surprised if they did. Our Corporate Media is entirely

under the control of Corporations. Not where people who want actual news go anymore.

[Aerows]

62. Astute as always

Katashi_itto-San

[malaise]

63. That was edited

The Fox station finally apologized

[J_J_]

27. It almost seems like it was by design, way too convenient

I think Malaise is onto something here, and the vast majority of non attack dogs seems to agree
www.democraticunderground.com/10025986650

One can usually tell if there is something important to cover up by the reaction of certain people.

[reddread]

32. what difference does that make?

does not change the real world dynamic it came from.
well, perhaps it does, but in a completely different manner,
on a completely different level.
the public discussion means jack unless the power wielders want to know.

[Rex]

34. He made things far worse now for civilians.

The shitbag police union leader is doing everything that he can to incite violence so that ain't helping the situation either.

[arely staircase]

43. that guy is a prick nt

[Rex]

52. I can't stand him! So smug and self assured that cops are a protected class.

Which they are, but they are not immune to prosecution, like the rest of us. He needs to shut up and go sit back down.

[mitch96]

41. The shooter walked up and shot

Didn't know if it was white/black/other in the car..

Would we be singing a different tune if the two cops were black?
m

[arely staircase]

42. Hispanic and Chinese, I think. nt

[malaise]

46. 3...2...1

Here they come

[arely staircase]

48. oh shit. who is coming?

And is Jamaica going to legalize weed?

[malaise]

50. Well they've decriminalized it

We're busy leading the way re new relations with Cuba - how I wish Michael Manley was still alive for this one

[morningfog]

56. Only temporarily. Only until a white cop kills another unarmed black man.

[arely staircase]

57. well

That wont take long. Sadlyn

[uponit7771]

65. ...and que the SL PD... another black guy killed, supposedly pulling a gun on a cop up close...

[Recursion]

58. Yeah, all it takes is the murder of a black woman and two non-white male police officers

to get white people to stop worrying about the killing of black men.

[Initech]

68. It's the guns!

It has nothing to do with one side vs. the other. You can point fingers at the police, you can point fingers at the civilians. The real 800 pound gorilla in the room is the thing that our media is too chicken shit to address. And that's the National Rifle Association and ALEC, and the extremely loose gun legislation that has been instigated in the last decade. It's all but legalized murder. The NRA and ALEC are terrorist organizations, while we're fighting about one side vs. the other, they're passing very dangerous legislation like Stand Your Ground that allows this shit to happen in the first place. They are the real enemy in all of this.