Changing The Conversation To, "You're Saying, 'All Cops Are Bad' So You're A Hypocrite"

[marym625]

Why can't people be extremely pissed off at the inhumanity shown by so many cops, so often? Better yet, why wouldn't someone be angry? Police brutality is inexcusable yet it almost always goes without punishment, is often excused and is even lauded at times. The police unions are so incredulous they have excused and lauded the murder of a 12 year old boy.

It's like the Catholic Church with the pedophile priests. There were wonderful priests and nuns risking their lives to help others. But these selfless people represented the church, which protected the pedophiles. The Roman Catholic Church allowed children to be abused, molested and raped, for decades. I'm sure for centuries. Every single, solitary priest and nun who knew about the abuse and didn't do everything in their power to stop it, was just as guilty as the abusers and the protectors. They share the guilt because every child that was abused, and forever haunted by the abuse, wouldn't have been if the "good ones" the “heroic ones” did something. Fucking anything!

The same holds true with law enforcement officers and police brutality, racial profiling, abuse of power and outright murder. There are some absolutely wonderful, fearless, officers of peace who would protect your life with theirs. But if they keep silent about known abuses, they are just as guilty as the abuser.

Even without that being true, there is every reason to be sick of, sick from and completely outraged at police brutality and State sanctioned murder at the hands of the police.

The problem is, it is true. It is only with those in the know speaking out, that this will end. The silence from the “good ones” speaks as loudly as the defenders of abuse, murder and impunity for police in all matters. The silence from the heroic is as deafening as the shouts from police union representatives defending the murder of unarmed, of countless people being shackled without reason, of god knows how many kids now terrified to play at the park, of the thousands beaten bloody for not having the "right" color skin.

I applaud the few police officers who have spoken out against these senseless beatings and tragic miscarriages of justice. I find them to be the most courageous of all in law enforcement. They deserve our thanks and encouragement. Police Chief Chris Magnus is one of these heroes.

Unfortunately, there are only a few.

Until there is a stand by police officers against brutalizing fellow human beings, there will be outrage at cops. Until more than a handful of police officers speak out publicly against the atrocities that we see happening daily, there will be those that believe that all cops are bad. Only the police that can change that perception.

There should be outrage. We all should be outraged. The police should be outraged. Shame on anyone who isn't outraged as they are part of the problem.

[randome]

1. No one is denying the need to be outraged.

But there are over 593,000 police officers in this country. Until someone points out how many of those are guilty of doing harm instead of good, it makes no sense to say "The police are out of control." As if there is one organization instead of hundreds of thousands of individual precincts.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]

[marym625]

2. Completely disagree

which I thought was obvious. Until the police step up and acknowledge all the wrong, speak out against the impunity, the police are out of control.

[randome]

3. I think blame should be better targeted.

When a CEO makes the decision to reduce employee pensions, we are fond of saying "Look what the corporations are doing!" When we should be targeting the CEO who made that happen. Corporations are not people but we sometimes act like they are, even on DU.

The same thing with police malfeasance, I think. Instead of calling on "The police" (which is not someone who can react to our calls for justice) we should 'target' (and I mean this in the most peaceful way possible) the precinct captains, the union reps, etc. and hold them accountable.

Some of that is being done but not enough, IMO. It's still too easy to say "The police" instead of Mr. Carson or Ms. Louden.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.[/center][/font][hr]

[marym625]

4. If I knew the names of every police officer

that knows of abuses, no matter how small, and doesn't speak out against it, I would use their individual names.

I understand what you're saying. I don't completely disagree. However, we're talking about a tight group. It's like a huge family that all know daddy is abusing the daughters but they all just turn their heads.

[Feral Child]

5. Case in point.

Seems to me you use to brag about being a cop. Nothing strange about you attempting to minimize the problem.

How often does one step up to the microphone and call attention to the problem? Until 500,000 of them start outing the racists, "juicers", thieves, psychopaths, and murderers:


THE POLICE ARE OUT OF CONTROL!


Stop excusing them, randome. It attacks your credibility.

[marym625]

13. Well said! n/t

[Feral Child]

63. Thanks!

[LeftOfWest]

18. Thanks for this post

your sig line is outstanding btw.

[Feral Child]

62. Thanks for both comments.

And Welcome to DU.

[randome]

65. I was never a cop. No idea where you got that from.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[Feral Child]

66. Oh, perhaps I'm mistaken.

I seem to remember many posts from you announcing your retirement as a Deputy U.S. Marshal.

That was you, was it not?

[randome]

76. It most definitely was not me.

The point I was making is that blaming 'The Police' may be counter-productive. There is no such organization as 'The Police'. Blaming the individuals who are to blame may be more productive.

For that, we need names and social media to call them out.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[Feral Child]

101. Then I apologize for my assumption.

As to your suggested strategy, it's the way things have always been done and it"s completely ineffective.

The piecemeal strategy you suggest, as demonstrably proved by the Ferguson/Brown case, gives policemen the opportunity to escape any penalty for murder. It's absolutely clear that the prosecutor in that case prepared a special package of materiel to present before the Grand Jury virtually ensuring a No True Bill outcome.

If this was an isolated incident, your caveat that there is no cohesive organization known as "The Police" might be accurate, but the same conditions; the same militarization, the same racism, the same profiling, the same evasion of responsibility, the same perjuries, and the same atrocities are so widespread and consistent in virtually every law enforcement department through-out the country that they may realistically be viewed collectively as one entity..

Heretofore, a by-case approach has allowed the prevailing attitude of invincibility to permeate the collective departments.

Returning to the Wilson/Brown case as an example it's clear that Wilson's entire shift, his entire department, the assisting officers from St. Louis County P.D. and the Prosecuting Attorney's office all colluded to ensure Wilson escaped charges for his conduct. They are all guilty, under Missouri state statute, of Accessory to Murder After the Fact. Yet all efforts so far and for the foreseeable future have been entirely futile. The stone wall of police corruption stands.

You say we need to consider the over half a million officers in this country individually, but I say, the people say, that all these officers bear responsibility, for malfeasance if naught else, for protecting the corrupt officers. In fact, since they have failed, time and again, to purge the ranks of the corrupt individuals, they are all guilty of violating the Oath of Office.

Thus, a comprehensive program demanding justice at every level of government, non-violently attacking "The Police" as an entity, is the only viable strategy for establishing government mandates of independent civilian oversight of all police officers everywhere. Only with such mechanisms in place can we reasonably achieve any control over rogue officers. We need to act in a collective, nationwide movement to demand the overhaul of command structures, establish control procedures such as body-cams, civilian revue boards and a federal investigation agency and develop any other tools necessary to reign in every department nationwide.

Of course, existing tools for investigating individual crimes by police agents should remain in place, but until we demand a nationwide standard of control, these individual investigations will continue to be perverted by local corruption and the alienation of the police from the body civil will continue until we have but two choices, subjugation or self-defense.

[Ligyron]

102. AMEN, nt

[Feral Child]

70. It's been an hour and forty minutes

since I responded to your denial.

I don't like to be misrepresented and falsely accused of posting incorrect information. If I am mistaken, please inform me, I'll certainly apologize publicly. If you fail to address this I'm going to have to assume my memory is correct.

That would indicate that you've lied. Since I don't want to falsely accuse someone, I think I'll begin searching for the posts I remember. Be assured, if my memory is correct, I will surely call you to account for your denial.


Also, I'd like for you to address the closing statement in my post. Do you think it's unreasonable to expect cops to report other cops that break the law? After all, they're sworn to arrest lawbreakers, and I don't think their oaths exclude lawbreakers that also wear a badge.

[randome]

77. Hey, it's Christmas. I'm busy. See my response above.

And I'm not accusing you of anything, just stating that you're mistaken.

No, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect cops to uphold the law and a sense of decency.

But if we expect our points to be heard, it may be helpful to aim them at the individuals instead of a vast, multi-faceted organization-that-is-not-one-organization.

Who is 'the police'? Where do they live? How will 'the police' respond to our points? To the protests? There is no organization known as 'the police'.

So perhaps it would be more productive to blame the individuals who are, you know, to blame, and use social media to confront them.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[marym625]

92. How is that more productive

When the individuals continually get off? They get off because the whole damn system is guilty as he'll. So until those inside the system start talking; nothing will change.

[Bandit]

7. What is that saying about All it takes for Evil to grow is for good men to do nothing.

A cop is not a good cop if they knowingly allow a bad cop to keep on being a bad cop.

[marym625]

10. It's Edmund Burke

and used to be my twitter quote


“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

― Edmund Burke

[sabrina 1]

24. How many of them have spoken out against the criminals among them? I know of one,

and he got a visit from a swat team, was hauled out of his bed and put in a psychiatric ward.

If there are all these good cops, they should be joining the protesters.

I mispoke, I know of three, one is retired and DOES join the demonstrations, and recently we saw on Police Chief join them. He was vilified by all those 'good cops' you are telling us about.

[marym625]

32. I named the only one I was positive about

That isn't retired. He's a Police Chief in NC.

Quite a few retired officers have come forward and taken a stand against the injustices. More than a few Military, both retired and serving have also taken a stand.

Can you link to the story about the officer that was taken away? I hadn't heard that.

[sabrina 1]

36. I included the Police Chief in the three I was thinking of. Here is a link to the

Officer who blew the whistle on Corruption in his department:

NYPD Tapes The WhistleBlower, Adrian Schoolcraft

He wanted his bosses to know about NYPD misconduct. So they put him in a mental ward

Last Halloween, three weeks after he made allegations of misconduct in Brooklyn's 81st Precinct, Adrian Schoolcraft's career in the New York City Police Department ended in rather spectacular fashion.

On October 7, Schoolcraft had sat for three hours with an inspector, a lieutenant, and three sergeants with the Quality Assistance Division—the NYPD unit that monitors the accuracy of police reports—as they questioned him about his allegations that precinct bosses had refused to take criminal complaints and had downgraded crimes. They told him they would launch a substantial investigation.

After the meeting, Schoolcraft went about his normal work as a member of the 81st Precinct. Then, on the afternoon of October 31, he felt sick and went home about an hour early. Precinct supervisors appeared at his door hours later, claiming he had violated policy and demanding that he return to work.

The Voice presents excerpts from "The NYPD Tapes: Inside Bed-Stuy's 81st Precinct."


FEBRUARY 20, 2009
"If We Like You, You Get a Certain Thing. If We Don't Like You, You Get a Certain Thing."

In this excerpt, Adrian Schoolcraft meets with Lieutenant Rafael Mascol, who makes a series of unguarded remarks about how the NYPD rates officers.



OCTOBER 31, 2009
"What is this, Russia?"

In this recorded excerpt from Schoolcraft's apartment, deputy chief Michael Marino demands that Schoolcraft, who'd gone home early feeling sick, return to the precinct. Schoolcraft refuses.




OCTOBER 31, 2009
"Son, You Got a Choice. What Is It Gonna Be?"

Deputy chief Marino demands that Schoolcraft go to the hospital. Schoolcraft refuses. He was then thrown to the floor, handcuffed, dragged from his Queens apartment, and taken against his will to a psychiatric ward at Jamaica Hospital.


One of his visitors was a deputy chief, who upbraided him while sitting on the edge of his bed. On orders from that deputy chief, Schoolcraft was then thrown to the floor, handcuffed, dragged from his Queens apartment, and taken against his will to a psychiatric ward at Jamaica Hospital. His forced hospitalization lasted six days. Police officers also removed papers from his home that documented his concerns about NYPD operations. Jamaica Hospital officials charged him $7,000 for his stay—and another $86 to obtain his own medical records.

He was fortunate that he had proof of his allegations, but this case went on for years and I'm not sure if it's even over yet, or whether anyone, other than the Whistle Blower himself, was held accountable.

[marym625]

38. wow. that's some serious shit

I can't believe I didn't hear about this. Well, yes I can. My father was dying. He died November 3rd that year and had a long, hard death.

That's seriously twisted, from the movies kind of outrageous stuff.

Thanks for sharing. I am going to try and find out what has happened since

[sabrina 1]

39. I'm sorry about your dad, that would indeed keep you from

pretty much everything else.

It actually didn't get that much coverage on the MSM. I believe the NYT may have covered it, but it was covered extensively in RS I think, and the one I linked to.

If you look at the link, they have several articles over the course of a couple of years which should help give you the background on what was going on.

In 2012 he filed suit against the Dept I believe, but I don't know what the result was. Or as I said, what happened to all the corrupt cops who were fixing the crime stats to make themselves look good.

[marym625]

42. I'm sure nothing happened to the corrupt cops

But maybe he settled with the city and that's why we can't find anything

Thank you. I appreciate that. I was wrong about the year though, I thought it happened last year, when my dad died. I guess I'm tired. I read it incorrectly.

I really don't pay much attention to MSM. I have no excuse for not knowing this. Glad you posted it.

And now we have two more cops getting away with murder. Infuriating!

[TheKentuckian]

51. The culture is corrupt from sea to shining sea. The desire to individualize at all times is a tactic

to avoid consideration of institutional issues, the broad culture, and the mission of the police in order to maintain the status quo.

The individuals are of secondary concern rather than the primary one, people are absolutely right not to get distracted.

[SomethingFishy]

69. That would be all well and good if the people we were talking about

weren't armed with tanks, body armor, sniper rifles, tear gas, tasers, sonic weapons, and water cannons.

When police are killing unarmed people on a daily basis, and then complaining that they shouldn't have to answer to anyone for it, there is a serious fucking problem.

[randome]

79. There's no dispute that we have a problem.

And the job description needs to change so that serving the community is front and center.

Body cams are the best way forward. They won't be 100% effective but they can serve as a reminder that abuse of authority will be recorded.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[99Forever]

6. You absolutely correct Mary.

Until they clean up the dirt among their own, they all bear the guilt.

[marym625]

11. Thank you, 99Forever

[NaturalHigh]

8. So you believe in collective punishment?

I'm sick of seeing the "there are no good cops" posts, along with dumbass comments about "Amerikkka" and other such nonsense.

[Jappleseed]

9. It has nothing to do with collective punishment.

We cannot punish them.

It is all about responsibility. They have the responsibility to fix this problem, and so far they have failed in spectacular fashion.

[marym625]

12. Did I say they should all be punished?

Did I say "there are no good cops"? I believe i even cited one that is speaking out against brutality.

If you're so sick of it, why do you continue to post on the threads? I see a pro Hilary thread and I stay away from it.

Are you sick of the brutality? DO you think cops who know about it should keep their mouths shut?

[NaturalHigh]

14. I continue to post in these threads...

because I choose not to let anti-police rhetoric go unchallenged.

[marym625]

15. And....

You didn't answer my other questions

[NaturalHigh]

19. And...

Sometime when I have time (and patience and energy) to write a detailed reply on the subject maybe I will. For a short answer, I'll just say that probably 95% of police officers are good people, and they shouldn't be smeared for the actions of a few.

[marym625]

20. I will accept that

for now. I don't agree with what you're saying, or even on your take on what I'm saying.

I await your explanation. I hope this isn't just a cop out. (That is supposed to be funny - pun and all)

[NaturalHigh]

22. Nothing wrong with a good pun.

I'm fine with you not agreeing with what I am saying. If I'm misunderstanding what you are saying, then I apologize.

[marym625]

37. I am saying there are

Basically good human beings on police forces across the country. But if they remain silent, they are guilty of the racism, brutality, etc, as much as the ones that do it. It's aiding and abetting. Legally, they're guilty.

I know that there are a few that are truly heroic and have come out against these atrocities. So there are a few good ones. I know that there are many that speak in whispers to friends and family about the inherent racism, etc. They have to speak out loud. They know that their silence will allow it to continue. I have hope for them. But until they do shout it from the rooftop and push for change, they're guilty.

[marym625]

40. I forgot to say thank you

If you did misunderstand and are apologizing, thank you. I meant to say that when I tried explaining myself better

[NaturalHigh]

72. We disagree on a lot of things, Mary...

but you are a good person whom I respect. Merry Christmas to you and yours.

[marym625]

80. Thank you

And I respect you as well

Merry Christmas!

[justiceischeap]

27. That's like saying the German people who saw what was going on in Nazi

Germany weren't in some way complicit in their silence. I have no doubt many of the Germans in Nazi Germany were good people but as a society we have a responsibility to hold up mirrors and not allow people to be mistreated.

If the 95% of good officers demanded that their union and local shops did something about the problem, there would be corrective action taken because they are the majority and the majority would rule. Instead they stand by silently allowing this bad behavior to paint all officers with a dirty brush.

I don't understand how anyone who continuously posts about "good" officers can't see the truth and logic in the power that the "good" officers silence gives to the "bad apples."

[marym625]

33. Nazi Germany

The Roman Catholic Church. Lots of examples where silenced caused harm.

I don't get it either.

[RobinA]

67. So What Have You

done not to allow the united States to torture people? Are you active in getting the mentally ill out of solitary confinement while in prison? It's not quite as easy as talking about it in the Internet.

[marym625]

75. I really resent replies like this

I am active in more than posting on the Internet. But thanks for assuming I am not.

[A HERETIC I AM]

58. 95% ?!?!?

[Ino]

73. Challenging that "probably 95%" statement...

One day I started thinking "There are all these cops who demand others do whatever they say, do it NOW, do it without question... who meet the slightest resistance or challenge with overarching force. Do they turn off that attitude when they go home?" I looked into that. Studies have shown that at least 40% of police officers engage in domestic violence (4 times the general population).
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/09/police-officers-who-hit-their-wives-or-girlfriends/380329/

As the National Center for Women and Policing noted in a heavily footnoted information sheet, "Two studies have found that at least 40 percent of police officer families experience domestic violence, in contrast to 10 percent of families in the general population. A third study of older and more experienced officers found a rate of 24 percent, indicating that domestic violence is two to four times more common among police families than American families in general." Cops "typically handle cases of police family violence informally, often without an official report, investigation, or even check of the victim's safety," the summary continues. "This 'informal' method is often in direct contradiction to legislative mandates and departmental policies regarding the appropriate response to domestic violence crimes." Finally, "even officers who are found guilty of domestic violence are unlikely to be fired, arrested, or referred for prosecution."

So that leaves only 60% who may be "good people." There are probably a fair amount with cushy jobs who spend their days writing tickets and are never really put to the test.

But how many of those 60% who ARE put to the test see wrongdoing by their fellow officers and say nothing, look the other way, lie to help them cover it up, do not report the wrongdoing to their superiors? Most of them, IMO. Maybe they are good cops who would never engage in brutality themselves, but they are well aware of the repercussions that ratting out their partners would have to themselves. So they would rather watch someone get beaten, tazed, shot, arrested, jailed, humiliated & ruined than speak up. Their cowardice and weak moral center make them complicit, accessories, perjurers. That makes them nearly as bad as the bullies. Other than that though, they are great people

There are precious few cops who speak up. A statistically insignificant amount.

Do you know some "good cops"? Friends or relatives? Ask them what they would do (or what a good cop would do) if one of their fellow officers started beating someone up without cause. Listen carefully. Do they look annoyed and attack you for asking? or start hedging around the question, i.e. "Well, the perp shouldn't resist... you don't know what it's like... no one would do that... you have to control the situation"? How many of them immediately, unequivocally say, "I would stop him... I would report him"? Precious few.

[rbrnmw]

16. I continue to ask why are GOOD cops silent if they are so GOOD?

[marym625]

17. Amen to that!

you and me, we agree.

[NaturalHigh]

21. You do know that police officers who are prosecuted for crimes...

are generally investigated and caught by other police officers, right? Just how silent are they?

[rbrnmw]

23. recently very quiet they have been whining about how disrespected they are

[marym625]

34. A bunch of white cops in Cleveland

Are suing because they have been "discriminated against" and feel they shouldn't be punished. So they'll speak for themselves, but no one else.

Where is the outrage from these cops about the murder of a 12 year old boy at the hands of one of their own? They're busy yelling that a kid shouldn't play cops and robbers and should be able to obey a supposed order in fewer than 2 seconds.

[Ino]

74. Fail...

"police officers who are prosecuted for crimes"... how many are actually ever prosecuted?! The number of claims of police brutality that result in an investigation is extremely small. And the number of investigations that result in a prosecution are equally tiny, so you are talking about a miniscule portion of the police brutality that takes place.
http://www.chicagoreporter.com/indictments-convictions-police-officers-civilian-deaths-rare

The National Police Misconduct Statistics and Reporting Project tracked cases of alleged police misconduct between April 2009 and December 2010. The project, an initiative of the Cato Institute, a Washington, D.C. think tank, found that of 2,716 officers accused of using excessive force, only about 200 were charged and 77 were convicted. About 30 of the nearly 430 officers accused of killing a person using excessive force were charged. Only half were convicted.

"police officers who are prosecuted for crimes are generally investigated... by other police officers" -- yeah, that's why the result of the investigation is most often "we found no wrongdoing... officer acted appropriately... blah blah blah"

"police officers who are prosecuted for crimes are generally...caught by other police officers." Bullshit. They are generally being caught by videos! In the absence of a video, nothing happens because the witness cops keep very silent. (There are notable exceptions... notable because they are extremely rare. And they are rare because the police punish other cops who rat on them.)

Just a couple of examples...
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/NYPD-Video-Punching-Lower-East-Side-YouTube-NYC-286356091.html

The NYPD says it has suspended a police officer after a video was posted online that appeared to show him repeatedly punching a 16-year-old suspect as other officers tried to arrest the teen.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2827757/Cop-caught-camera-slapping-man-wouldn-t-let-search-car.html

A New York State police officer has been suspended after a video was posted online capturing him allegedly slapping a young man he had pulled over. ... 'If I had to do it all over again ... I'd probably do the same thing. If I knew the camera was there, no, because it does look bad.'

Did the "other officers" present turn them in? No, they were suspended after the videos went viral. It's yet to be seen if they'll actually be prosecuted or otherwise punished.


http://www.civil-rights-law.com/how-to-complain-about-police-m/

Other police officers at the scene typically follow the unwritten "code of silence." These officers will not report witnessing a fellow police officer punching or kicking a civilian. The other officers are usually represented by the same union lawyer. These officers either say their fellow officer used reasonable force, or they claim they did not hear or see the beating. Police officers who stand by while another officer beats a person can be legally responsible for the injury, another reason most officers do not truthfully report witnessing a fellow officer using excessive or unreasonable force.

[Fred Sanders]

29. Why are good Christians silent as the fundies take over the GOP and distort the religion? They are

not silent, the just get no attention from the conflict chasing media.

[treestar]

54. Like the Muslims, they probably are not silent

You simply have not bothered to look for what some of them may have said. And the MSM is not helping you with that, by design.

[notadmblnd]

31. You haven't challanged anything. You've complained.

You said you were sick of seeing the "all cops are bad" meme. As I see it, there are two ways to get over your sickness. Either don't come here and read it, or advocate for law enforcement reform.


You have to admit, one can't very well complain about bad cops if there are none, can they?

[treestar]

53. You did imply that because some cops are bad, that others have some duty

to speak up about it, just because they are cops also. Like the Muslims who are required to say something when a Muslim does something bad.

There are crummy teachers out there. There are crummy nurses. Doctors. Lawyers. Shitty engineers. Nobody says we have to spend at least some part of a day condemning them.

[marym625]

57. Bull

First off, being Muslim or Catholic or whatever is not the same as being within a group in which you can change something. That you would know what is going on with the workings of a group that is oppressing and physically harming others.

Yes, if a doctor knows another doctor is harming people, he sure as hell should speak up.

Who is supposed to speak out against others in a group they're a part of that they know are doing wrong? Should we all just stfu because we're not the one responsible for an atrocity?

How is that a "liberal value"?

[Ino]

82. Bravo.

I'm so tired of that "argument." Perfect answer!

[marym625]

60. and by the way

Cops killing and beating people of color at an alarming rate and not suffering any consequence is hardly the same as some people being bad at their jobs.

Also, calling out those that remain silent about atrocities is not calling for punishment

[sabrina 1]

25. Where are they? As I said above, I know of three so far. All of them have been villified

by the cops in general.

IF they exist, they should be joining the people in asking for equal treatment under the law, that isn't too much to ask.

We are TOLD that this is our system, but as people take a look at the record, which more and more are doing now, it is clear that there are two sets of rules when it comes to our judicial system, and cops come under the 'no accountability' rule, exempt from the law, no matter what they do.

Good cops, and we know they exist, dare NOT speak out. THAT is how bad the culture they have established is.

If you want to help the good cops, then why are you asking people to be silent about the bad ones?

[NaturalHigh]

26. Sabrina, I don't think I've ever asked anyone to be silent about the bad ones.

I do take exception with people (and yes, they are here on DU) who say there are no good cops or that all cops are murderers, etc. You've seen them too, I'm sure.

[sabrina 1]

28. Sorry if I misunderstood you then. I know there are good cops, but they do not have

any support within their ranks. They need the people's support.

I have a feeling that the good cops are pretty happy to see the bullies they certainly are familiar with, running scared at last.

But militarizing the police has made it almost treason for anyone within that culture to speak out at all.

Which is why imo, it is imperative to remove some of the power these cops have been given and show them they work for US.

I know people will back the good cops, but first the atmosphere has to be changed.

They are attracting fewer and fewer recruits to our police departments who are likely to view the 'us v them' culture as wrong. So as time goes by, there are fewer good cops.

[socialist_n_TN]

45. But I noticed you didn't say anything about being "sick" of police violence.........

that includes murder of people, mostly black, by these few bad cops. I agree with the people who have said that as long as the "good cops" aid and abet the felony of murder, they are ALL complicit. If you abetted a murder, would you be considered guilty? Why shouldn't those so-called "good cops"?

[Skittles]

30. about as stupid as saying you're all for killing unarmed people

[marym625]

35. What?

[Skittles]

41. some DUers have been accused of supporting the deaths of unarmed folk

because they refuse to stereotype LEO

[marym625]

43. What?

That "what" is really a 'wtf?!"

I have not seen anyone support the death of anyone. Glad I missed that. Even if people disagree, I would hope no one goes that far.

Oy!

We need a little emoticon dude whose head spins around

[Skittles]

47. yup

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5987254

[marym625]

48. I couldn't be more confused

I'm using my phone so trying to track who said what to whom is difficult. Plus, I'm tired. I will have to look at it again later. But thanks for letting me know what you're talking about.

[Rex]

44. I can think of a few reasons why some would never say anything negative about cops.

Most normal people are outraged at the indifference shown toward the victims.

[marym625]

49. What indifference to which victims?

I have shown no indifference to any victim.

[LiberalElite]

46. When I wonder why there isn't more outrage on this and other problems, sometimes

I take solace in this Margaret Mead quote:

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."

[marym625]

50. Love Margaret Mead

And love that quote.

Thanks for sharing that

[treestar]

52. It is not a liberal value to hold people responsible for the actions of others

because they are in some same group. It seems to some that just depends on what group it is. Some groups can be blamed and others can't. That is inconsistent.

[marym625]

55. seems you're expanding on my post and putting words in my mouth

It is not a liberal value to accuse people of something they haven't done

It is a liberal value to stand against those that oppress others.

I am not a hypocrite. Show me anywhere I have said anything that is anything like you are saying.

To be in a community that is as tight as police forces are, there is no way that everyone in a department doesn't know what racism runs through it, that isn't more than aware of the racial profiling, that doesn't watch people of color pulled over for nothing and at a percentage higher than whites. I had more than a couple cops in my family and my father was a police commissioner. I have a fairly good idea what is known within a force from them, some friends who were also on different police forces, and I can read. A liberal would stand against the abuses.

Where is the outrage from ANY NYPD at the insane announcement from their union rep explaining that the choke hold that killed Eric Garner, wasn't a choke hold? Where are the NYPOs calling for the murderer's arrest that used an illegal choke hold, that we have all watched, to kill yet another black man? A liberal would be shouting for it.

When a group stands in protection of others in the group that have committed heinous acts, they are guilty of allowing those acts to continue. A liberal would be shouting for those in the same group to let the truth be known. To stop protecting those that harm, thereby allowing more harm to come to others.

A liberal would call for the conviction of people who "just followed orders" when those orders caused harm to innocent people.

Don't tell me what a liberal would do. I am a liberal and I blame those in the know that keep silent because they are guilty of allowing the atrocities, mainly against people of color, the mentally ill and the poor, to continue.

[treestar]

71. there might be

But just because a person belongs to a profession does not mean they have any duty to "speak out." There are thousands of police departments in this country, too. And hearing about these cases fails to reflect the millions of successful, peaceful person/cop interactions.

You've no right to condemn any member of NYPD or require them to do anything. They should be judged on their own merits. Enough of this blaming people for the actions of others, whether they be protestors or cops or Muslims. That is NOT what a liberal does (though I know there are people here who want to blame Rush Limbaugh, Palin, etc. for what right wing nuts do. But I don't find that correct as a liberal. Nobody has to do anything because Rushobo or Palin said anything).

[marym625]

78. I don't know what you think a liberal is

But it isn't what the definition actually is.

Enough of this excusing officers who don't speak out against racism, profiling, brutality and murder. And every single cop in this country knows that what Wilson said he did, even if every word was true, was bad police work. Every single officer in this country knows that excuses for not having a taser Wilson used is bullshit. Every single officer in this country knows that not writing a report is against protocol in nearly every department. Every single officer knows wiping his gun before entering it into evidence was bad police work. They know the fact Wilson himself put it into evidence was against protocol. Every officer knows that shooting John Crawford, with less than 3 seconds to respond was wrong. They know pulling into the park, jumping in and shooting Tamir Rice was not just against any police training, it was against common sense. Every single officer in this country knows a choke hold killed Eric Garner.

Every single officer has a duty to speak out.

Enough of this bullshit that because they're "good" they needn't speak out

I'm done with this

[JEFF9K]

56. Within the big picture of all problems we are facing ...

how do you think this problem ranks?

[marym625]

59. Pretty high up there

The majority of the problems we face are all related.

It's all about, and always about, the money. As far as domestic problems go, this allows cops to kill with impunity, to arrest without cause, which leads to fines and incarceration rates that are astronomical, etc etc etc.

It is the police state that protects the oligarchy

[20score]

61. It ranks FAR below overpopulation and the myriad problems associated with that.

It ranks below money in politics…But it’s still pretty damn high on the list of problems society should be concerned with.


Rape, murder of cops, spousal abuse – all terrible things that should induce sadness and anger. But unless those things are part of a system, like when society and police used to (and to some extent still do) turn a blind eye to spousal abuse, it is an entirely different and lesser category than institutional injustice. No adult should need that clarification. (Not necessarily addressed to you, unless you are implying that murder by police and brutality is not a problem. Then it is definitely addressed to you.)

[JEFF9K]

64. Bad police practices need to be addressed ...

but recent events that have dominated this site for weeks have a negative effect on about 0.00001% of the population, while many other problems impact more than 99% of Americans.

Republicans must be enjoying this - taking our eyes off bigger problems while turning independents away from voting for Democrats.

[20score]

68. This is a second civil rights movement. And it's very important.

There are thousands of cases per year of police brutality. Hundreds of cases per year of people killed that were either unarmed or in custody. (About 400 a year killed in custody alone.) Plus, families of victim are also affected. Hundreds of millions awarded to the victims every year. 100% of the adults in the country are responsible for the institutional abuses and the system that has been set up.

Your statistic of 3 people (I’m guessing you didn’t look that up) is off by over the entire population of the country.

So, my response stands as is. Yours however, is flawed. Would you care to tell us why we should ignore a system that allows for murder and brutality, that in most cases is codified as just? What is important then? Please don’t say economics, because that is part of the unjust system being fought now; along with the entire prison system.

[JEFF9K]

81. Recent events involve less than 30 people.

And cell phone video evidence along with civil trials and payoffs to avoid civil trials can only result in fewer and fewer abuses.

It's your "argument" that is flawed.

[marym625]

84. wow

Less than 30 people? Civil trials and payoffs will result in few abuses?

Are you seriously saying this?

[JEFF9K]

85. Ever hear of "reality?"

[marym625]

87. Yes. You should try it sometime.

[JEFF9K]

90. I'm in it.

You aren't.

[marym625]

91. No, not so much.

The fact you are so blind as to what this is doing to our country, how many people are affected by this and how it relates to almost everything that is going on domestically, just shows you are in some alternate universe.

20score has said it better than I so I will leave it at that.

Happy holidays.

[20score]

89. That shows some serious misunderstanding of the

issue. Whether it's out of ignorance or something else, only you know. But I am done with trying to debate you.

[Lee-Lee]

83. If you changed "police" to "Muslims" yoiur post would be right at home on Free Republic

It's almost the exact same logic the bigots on the right use to demonize all Muslims.

Think about that...

[marym625]

86. yes. being a cop is exactly the same as being Muslim

That "argument," more accurately, convoluted bullshit, has already been used on this thread, to try and negate the responsibility the police hold.

Comparing being a police officer to a Muslim is so far out there it's unbelievable.

Think .

[20score]

88. What you just wrote is insulting to the victims,

decency and intellect.

[Cha]

97. Nah, I don't see that at all.

[Initech]

93. Actually, this is more what we need to change the dialogue to:

"The National Rifle Association and the American Legislative Exchange Council are actively trying to legalize murder by passing dangerous legislation like Stand Your Ground, and are behind the militarization of local police forces, and they are playing both sides for chumps in this debate. While we're fighting amongst ourselves, they're getting away with murder."

[marym625]

94. We definitely need to include that in the conversation

But the federal government is also behind the militarization of police and the courts are enabling the cops to commit atrocities. The privatization of the prisons is also a big part of the problem.

But I agree that the NRA needs to be taken down.

[Initech]

95. So does ALEC, they're just as dangerous as the NRA.

[marym625]

98. I think even more so

They're quieter about their oppression and have a better PR firm spinning their bullshit

[Cha]

96. There would be such progress if the Police Depts across our country recognized that illegal gun

sales were much more of a danger to them than Protests of People wanting the cops who are guilty of brutality and killing of unarmed Black People(and every other unarmed peoples of other races), to be held responsible.

They're afraid to admit to any mistakes or wrong doing even in the face of flawless evidence.

Those who are speaking out are heroes.. we know how much it costs them for standing up to the vast Blue Wall.

I googled Police Chief Chris Magnus of Richmond California, to find out more about him.. and guess what? You might have known this but he got married in May to Terrance Cheung.

Monday, May 12, 2014

The East Bay's New Power Couple: Richmond’s Gay Police Chief Gets Married

snip//

Richmond Police Chief Chris Magnus and Terrance Cheung, the chief of staff in Supervisor John Gioia’s office, were married in a ceremony that took place among blooming flowers in the terraced amphitheater at the Berkeley Rose Garden over the weekend. After the small ceremony, the newlyweds held a reception for about 250 people at the Richmond waterfront restaurant Salute’s.

Magnus and Cheung form something of a political power couple as was evidenced by some of the guests at the reception. Among the well-wishers were some of the heaviest hitters in the East Bay, including Congressman George Miller, state Senators Loni Hancock and Mark DeSaulnier, Assemblywoman Nancy Skinner, Contra Costa Supervisor Gioia, Berkeley Mayor Tom Bates, Richmond Mayor Gayle McLaughlin, and most of the city’s councilmembers.

snip//

Modesty aside, the two men have made considerable contributions to the communities they work in. As Supervisor Gioia’s chief of staff, Cheung has worked tirelessly on the development of the Ryse Center, which offers numerous resources and organizing opportunities for troubled youths in West Contra Costa County. He has also worked on the development of a one-stop service center for the formerly incarcerated that offers assistance with housing, employment, education, counseling, and medical resources for those who are struggling to get a footing after being released from prison. He is currently working the development of the West Contra Costa Family Justice Center, which provides counseling, legal and support services to the victims of domestic violence

Magnus’ eight years as Richmond police chief have seen a sustained reduction in violent crime that has rarely been matched in other cities that have experienced seemingly intractable violence related to gangs and chronic unemployment. When Magnus first became chief in 2006, Richmond was regularly rated as one of the most violent cities in the United States. Now, the city’s crime rates are at their lowest in 30 years, which is the result of Magnus’ community policing programs, which include forging strong bonds with community members, church leaders, and young people. The result has been safer streets and renewed interest in the city by businesses.

MOre..
http://www.eastbayexpress.com/SevenDays/archives/2014/05/12/the-new-power-couple-richmonds-gay-police-chief-gets-married

We know about lately what he's been up to..

Richmond Police Chief Magnus says he’d hold protest sign again

By Matier & Ross

Updated 6:33 pm, Monday, December 15, 2014

Richmond Police Chief Magnus says he’d hold protest sign again



Richmond Police Chief Chris Magnus, who set off an avalanche of emotions when he held up a “#Black Lives Matter” sign at a local protest, says he wouldn’t hesitate if placed in the same situation.

“Sure, I would do it again, but I would like to be a little better prepared for the fallout,” Magnus said Monday.

The police chief said he and about a half dozen other members of his command staff were at a community center when the protest began Dec. 9, and that a woman he was chatting with “on issues of the day” asked if he would hold the sign.

“I looked at it for a minute and realized this is actually pretty innocuous,” Magnus said. “That 'black lives matter’ is something that I would think that we should all be able to agree upon. All lives matter.”

MOre..
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/matier-ross/article/Richmond-Police-Chief-Magnus-says-he-d-hold-5959053.php

Great OP, Mary.. Mahalo!

[marym625]

99. Thank you, Cha

I didn't know about that but now I really love him!

They truly are heroes. But how sad is that?! To be hailed a hero just for standing up for what is right.

Interesting, I read just about everything in a couple other articles but neither mentioned the fact he was gay and married. I don't recall what publications I read. I wonder why they left that out.

This is a brave soul.

Mahalo, Cha!

[Cha]

100. I know what you mean about the fact that Chris Magnus is Gay and he and his

husband are doing such wonderful work for the PD and their communities.. makes me admire him even more. Nice to get more of a full back story.

Mahalo to you, Mary.