Another black man was shot and killed by St. Louis police tonight.

[Drunken Irishman]

https://twitter.com/search?q=Antonio%20Martin&src=typd

[Comrade Grumpy]

1. Nothing in the St. Louis media yet.

One tweet said Fox News was on the scene. I imagine they mean the local affiliate.

[951-Riverside]

2. Live ustream feed

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/stackizshort

[951-Riverside]

32. Second ustream feed

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/thatsracistaf

[pnwmom]

48. A few details in this report from Business Insider:

http://www.businessinsider.com/black-teenager-antonio-brown-shot-and-killed-by-police-near-st-louis-missouri-2014-12

Weeks after protests over the shooting of unarmed black teenager Michael Brown started to subside, police in another St. Louis suburb have reportedly shot and killed an 18-year-old black man at a gas station.

Information on the shooting is thin so far, but large crowds have already started to form at the scene in Berkeley, Missouri.

Police have not yet commented on the shooting and it's so far unclear why 18-year-old Antonio Martin was shot, according to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. It's also unclear whether or not Martin was armed.

Here's a look at the crowds forming at the Mobil gas station in Berkeley:



SNIP

[_Blue_]

98. A lot of people in this thread putting the cart before the horse.

If this young man was unarmed and gunned down, St Louis will burn. This happened infront of a convenience store. It's likely there were cameras.

If the young man did pull a gun on an officer, and the video shows that, his death is going to clearly be justified albeit still tragic and preventable (it is illegal for an 18 year old to possess a handgun!). If protesters riot and burn, only to have such damning video released later, it will taint the protests against the killings of Michael Brown and Eric Garner. If the protestors behave the same way when a justified police shooting occurs -- and unfortunately there are many -- as they do when an unjustified shooting occurs, they'll lose all legitimacy and chance of making real change.

What ever happened to patiently, logically and rationally waiting for facts and evidence? When did our party abandon those traits in favor of emotion over truth?

[MoonRiver]

159. This isn't a "party" issue.

I don't know what happened today, but my outrage about young, unarmed black men and boys being gunned down by police has NOTHING to do with being a Democrat.

[Cha]

3. Why the Fuck can't those PD STOP killing unarmed Black People?

Antonio Martin

[sheshe2]

11. One of the tweets said Antonio has been left lying in the street for over an hour on Christmas eve.

Bae Guevara ‏@gina__theresa 38m38 minutes ago

A mother is watching her 18 yr old lay dead on the ground for an hour and counting on Christmas eve. Beyond heartbreaking. #AntonioMartin

Cha

[Cha]

30. It's heartbreaking, she.. and, of course, it brings out the racist assholes on DU, Again.

[Suich]

35. He/she is gone, I hope!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=319712

[Cha]

37. I alerted.. and MIRT Zapped it Good. Mahalo MIRT!

Suich

[mimi85]

39. Cha, do you EVER sleep?

What disturbing news - yet again. Hopefully, the next few days (or years would be nice) will bring some measure of peace. It's long overdue. Feliz Navidad to all.

[Cha]

42. mimi~

Antonio Martin

Yes, I usually get my 8 hours in.. I love to sleep and perchance to dream.

Mele Kalikimaka mimi~ Peace Love and Aloha to you and yours

[Cha]

36. Another racist zapped.. thank you MIRT

she

[cstanleytech]

19. Could you link to that please as I couldnt locate any details on what happened. nt

[Cha]

25. So they deserve the death penalty from some asshole trigger happy cop?

[sheshe2]

41. Damn, is that what they said?

Tears Cha. Glad MIRT took care of them, well at the very least they are under review.

[Cha]

47. One right below you too, she.. I alerted but it was already "name removed".. but not before I got my

opinion in.

Mahalo MIRT!

[Cha]

46. Another racist asshole on DU.. big shocker! news like this makes you crawl out of the woodwork.

[sheshe2]

50. Holy Shit!

Mirt is going to be working overtime the next few days, Cha.

[Cha]

51. Their big talking point is "Black on Black Crime".. and basically it's okay to kill Black People

"they shouldn't be robbing a store".

[Odin2005]

105. Fascists enjoy murdering "Untermenschen".

[rbrnmw]

157. enjoy your stay

[Odin2005]

158. Now I want to know what he said!

[rbrnmw]

160. some racist nonsense

[951-Riverside]

4. Photos

[951-Riverside]

5. Mother of Antonio Martin

https://vine.co/v/OXlDOAYrOD7

https://vine.co/v/OXlxUmqzwB5

[joshcryer]

6. Protesters just broke the police tape line.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/stackizshort

[linuxman]

24. Good job.

Nothing like disturbing a potential crime scene to insure proper handing of the situation.

[joshcryer]

28. The tape lines were a clusterfuck.

It wasn't a well defined taped off area at all. There were literally 3 zones and one was even inside of another zone, it made no sense. It's much more sane now.

Not saying the protesters were right to break the lines but they didn't make sense.

[linuxman]

29. To you, maybe.

I'm not a forensic scientist. Lots of stuff I see makes no sense to me. My reaction isn't to bowl it over though. All I know is that it will create problems later. If the cop who shot is in the wrong, I'll guarantee you this disruption of the scene will be used to cover for them/dismiss evidence as "Compromised".

[ellenrr]

67. yeah, well maybe emotions run high when an unarmed Black person gets killed practically every day by

police.
"disturbing a potential crime scene" means what exactly
when no cop is going to be indicted?!

Maybe the people who broke the crime tape should also be shot by police.....

You seem to have lost sight of priorities.

A man was killed. Again....

[pintobean]

71. It doesn't appear that he was unarmed.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/berkeley-officer-fatally-shoots-teenager-at-gas-station/article_d45db16a-7422-5307-b81d-b45dbdc896ba.html

[exboyfil]

97. One spokesmen for the protesters said it was non violent

Maybe it was not from the same location, but I saw someone shot fireworks towards a gas pump. That in my opinion is violent.

[ncjustice80]

101. Gun was planted. Anonymous shows no gun in oictures taken by protesters.

Its a another coverup, like Vonderrit Meyers.

[951-Riverside]

7. Looked like the Police were trying to quickly remove the body before the crowd pushed up n/t

[951-Riverside]

8. Anyone know when this shooting happened?

From what I see, it happened like an hour ago.

If its true, why are they trying to remove the body so fast?

https://twitter.com/akacharleswade/status/547651557462773760

[ellenrr]

92. Acc to the Huff Po article:

"It was originally reported that the shooting occurred early Wednesday. However, according to The Associated Press, the incident actually took place late Tuesday:"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/24/antonio-martin-police-shooting_n_6376210.html

otoh, Twitter often reports correctly, what other news sources take hours or days to get to...

[joshcryer]

9. I've been saying it, the killer cops aren't going away.

Until substantive efforts are made. It's not an issue that will just go away because some police officers get killed by a mentally ill person. It's not an issue that will go away because some new tragedy happened, or because something political happened, or because some celebrity did something.

It will not go away until the problem is addressed. It won't go away. Black men will continue to be murdered until there are laws passed to reign in these police.

[joshcryer]

10. "May I have your name?" "Officer Go Fuck Yourself."

"You do know that the last Officer Go Fuck Yourself lost their job, right?"

[shenmue]

12. Lord have mercy

[cherokeeprogressive]

13. What did he do?

[joshcryer]

15. No idea.

But he got killed for it.

I'm sure all the details will be released.

And another killer cop will get off.

[cherokeeprogressive]

20. I think it's time to abolish law enforcement entities like Police and Sheriffs.

[linuxman]

26. Cool, it will save a bundle.

Who do I call in the meantime?

[Anansi1171]

34. Call Rand Paul!-nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

38. The mayor of your town?

[linuxman]

40. I live in a "town" of 1/4 million

Let's hope someone else isn't using his services.

Who enforces the laws?

[cherokeeprogressive]

52. Depends what "color" you are. IOW, anyone but the police.

[linuxman]

54. Any examples?

[PlanetaryOrbit]

77. Then who do people call when there are muggings, assaults, murders, kidnappings, etc.?

Who responds to crime?

[ncjustice80]

100. Be black and unarmed in St. Louis.

[sheshe2]

14. More tears.

[sheshe2]

16. Here

Home » News » Missouri Police Reportedly Involved In Fatal Shooting Of Black Teenager On Christmas Eve (PHOTOS)
Missouri Police Reportedly Involved In Fatal Shooting Of Black Teenager On Christmas Eve (PHOTOS)

?w=768&h=1024
Home » News » Missouri Police Reportedly Involved In Fatal Shooting Of Black Teenager On Christmas Eve (PHOTOS)
Missouri Police Reportedly Involved In Fatal Shooting Of Black Teenager On Christmas Eve (PHOTOS)


Antonio Martin

Police in Berkeley, Mo. were reportedly involved in the fatal shooting of a black male at a gas station just miles from the city where an unarmed Michael Brown Jr. was killed by an officer in August.

The incident, which occurred just a day before Christmas, is being investigated. The male, described as an 18-year-old high school senior, has been identified by family as Antonio Martin.

Police have not released any details about the shooting, but those on the scene are reporting that the teenager’s body has been laying on the ground for nearly two hours.

http://globalgrind.com/2014/12/24/missouri-police-reportedly-involved-in-fatal-shooting-of-black-teenager-on-christmas-eve-photos/

[951-Riverside]

17. Valerie Schremp Hahn @valeriehahn claims that a gun was found at the scene

Source: https://twitter.com/valeriehahn

better view of gun at scene

https://twitter.com/valeriehahn/status/547655923872043008/photo/1

Black gun seen at scene where body was, with evidence marker next to it.

https://twitter.com/valeriehahn/status/547654544713605120/photo/1

[951-Riverside]

33. I find it interesting that she is the only source so far of this alleged gun sighting

but we'll see any other photos show up.

[ellenrr]

68. maybe Valerie Schremp Hahn @valeriehahn is Witness 40 ;) nt

[LittleBlue]

18. Conflicting reports. Earlier they said he was unarmed, but there is a photo of a gun at the scene

Valerie Schremp Hahn @valeriehahn · 12m 12 minutes ago Black gun seen at scene where body was, with evidence marker next to it.

Looks like evidence.

[cstanleytech]

22. Are you sure thats a gun? Looks to me like it could be one of those hand held mini video

cameras that I see on sale at Walmart these days.

[nomorenomore08]

135. Looks like a gun. But was it his? n/t

[joshcryer]

43. Welp... it just got real.

[joshcryer]

45. Protesters messed with a cop car.

Cops grabbed a protester. Protesters threw a firework at the cops.

[mimi85]

49. Sorry if this has already been posted.

http://rt.com/news/217243-black-man-ferguson-police/

Damn, damn, damn. I have had enough!

[joshcryer]

53. Gas station lit on fire.

Sigh.

[joshcryer]

55. Fire got put out before it got out of control.

[Skittles]

58. I'm fairly certain a lot of stuff sails right over your head

[Hubert Flottz]

62. LOL!!!!11!!11

Have a kick ass holiday!

[Skittles]

75. f*** these repuke trolling pieces of shit

hey Hubert, whassup?

[Hubert Flottz]

99. SOSDD!

The rethugs are everywhere and as always, up to no good. I guess they can't find anyone with firing neurons on their rePuke boards? So they come here like termites, to where folks have learned to read and write, to find out how much bullshit they've been fed, by their propaganda boy Rupert Murdoch and the like.

Turns the angry and mean, really ugly, when they run slam head long, into even the very slightest taste of reality, for a change! Truth to the a teabilly hordes is like Raid to a Kochroach party. Keep that butt boot forever in the air for democracy and have a wonderful holiday season.

[U4ikLefty]

59. Enjoy your stay.

[longship]

60. Tick.. Tick.. Tick... nt

[pintobean]

57. St. Louis County Police spokesman Brian Schellman says

Berkeley police say officers were originally dispatched to the gas station for a larceny call.

St. Louis County Police spokesman Brian Schellman says a Berkeley officer approached 2 people at the gas station. One of them pulled a handgun, and pointed it at the officer. The officer fired, killing the teen. The second person ran away. Police say a gun was recovered on the dead person at the scene.

http://fox2now.com/2014/12/24/teenager-killed-in-police-involved-shooting-in-berkeley/

[LittleBlue]

61. Protesters busted up the gas station

[pintobean]

66. That was the QuickTrip across the street

The shooting happened at a Mobile On The Run.

[PlanetaryOrbit]

79. The gas station didn't do anything wrong.

Trashing the gas station is senseless. Doesn't help.

[LincolnsLeftHand]

102. Because

It was the gas station's fault.

[Eko]

63. Patience is a virtue.

It's easy to fall prey to the knee jerk reaction, lets wait until we get more information before jumping on any bandwagon please. There are conflicting reports at the moment and we would all be better if we took a step back before coming to any conclusion with very little information available.

[Downwinder]

64. Lets see the video.

[Eko]

65. Yes,

more information would be great.

[ellenrr]

69. Yes, I agree. Have patience...Perhaps that isn't really a body in the street....

[Eko]

74. Pretty sure you took everything

I said out of context. We have a serious problem with the police killing unarmed people, most especially black people. That does not mean that every instance is an unjustified police killing especially since the information we have is contradictory and limited. Logic, use it, it is your friend, or dont and make comments like you did.

[Eko]

80. Sometimes I feel like I am an alien

I feel like I don't fit either party. I approach each situation with an open mind with regard to the facts known or unknown. Almost always I side with the progressive side, but far too often I find that my side is just as stupid as the other side even when they are correct and they ascribe beliefs to me that I have never espoused when I question their logic. I thought that progressives were smarter, but they are not. All we have to do is look at GMO's and woo medicine and natural being better and science being wrong when it doesn't fit their narrative and we can see the hypocrisy inherit in the progressive movement. I thought you guys were better, but you are not with the exception of a few. You are just the opposite side of a heaving humanity that doesn't know why it is doing what it is doing, and without knowing why, you are directionless. You just lash out at those who don't believe as you do. No wonder the democratic party is having problems. Its base is just as mad as the republican parties.

[Sherman A1]

78. Agreed

First reports are often incomplete or wrought with inaccurate information. It's takes time to assemble the whole picture. I understand that there may be security video from the Mobil and perhaps the QT across the street may have some as well.

Hate to see those photos of the QT being damaged. I drive by these stations and have stopped at them in the past for gas.

[Eko]

72. Not sure how you come to the conclusion

that it was him doing the shooting, the information you provided does not implicate him at all. What makes you think that?

[ellenrr]

73. news article is here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014972832

[lovemydog]

76. This must end.

[AngryAmish]

82. black lives matter

[TheKentuckian]

86. Has anyone told white people? They do kill each other at a similar clip probably because most crime

is between people that know each other and/or are proximate.

If you don't like the numbers maybe we can export some hard, pipe hitting motherfuckers to your hood to balance out things some or more simply you can stop parroting racist talking points in a vain effort to be superior.

[justiceischeap]

85. Here's what's being reported so far

Cop was looking for a suspect, Antonio Martin fit the "description"
Cop approaches black teen, teen pulls gun on cop, cop shoots and kills
Eyewitnesses claim Martin was unarmed
Antonio Martin lived for up to 20 minutes after being shot, no ambulance was called but gun was left near body and suspect not cuffed
There is supposed to be video of the incident and the powers that be may release it at 5am (which has already passed)
Antonio Martin was expelled from school but looking to join the US Job Corps
Antonio Martin's mother was a teenager when she had him (why this and the above is relevant to the story is beyond me)

These are the sparse "facts" as we know them right now.

Here's what I don't get about the facts...

1) Why would anyone be stupid enough to pull a gun on a cop but not shoot? You gotta know if you're going to pull a gun on a cop, they're going to shoot you, so you may as well shoot first (not condoning shooting police officers) if you want any chance at survival. And why is it that when black people pull guns on cops, they're shot to death but not white people?
2) Why did the police not call an ambulance but did call for crowd control assistance? Was there some vested interest in not letting Martin live?
3) Why, if the suspect was alive and near a loaded weapon, was the weapon not cleared from the suspects vicinity to ensure the officer and bystanders safety?

[Earth_First]

87. All this leads me to believe no firearm was present...

Awaiting further information.

[justiceischeap]

88. There are images floating around Twitter that claim the gun magically appeared

after police cars blocked the body. It's hard to tell from images though because there's no real point of reference in the gun image.

[ellenrr]

89. also-- police have never been known to leave guns at the scene... nt

[justiceischeap]

96. Image of purported drop gun on Twitter

But I can't make out where the gun is in relation to everything else and it bothers me that the image of the gun has been flipped.

On edit:
Just found this image, which gives context to gun location. I'm guessing the orange cone is where the gun was supposed to be.

[ncjustice80]

104. Coverup!!!!

[GGJohn]

126. I get the feeling that even if YOU saw a shooting where a cop clearly fired in self defense,

you'd still yell coverup!!!!

[ncjustice80]

131. I get the feeling that even if you saw a cop execute someone in cold blood, you would still scream

"Self defense."

Obvious throw down piece, gun shown to be a plant already, video edited by BPD to makenit look favorable, body cam mysteriously gone.

At this point, all cops need their guns taken away. Its obvious they cant be trusted.

[GGJohn]

133. Then you would be wrong.

And at this point, you know nothing, your anti police bias is driving your drivel.

[ncjustice80]

141. Driving my drivel?

Ok buddy. Keep sticking up for brutality.

[GGJohn]

161. So, what do you say now?

Several witnesses were interviewed. They have confirmed that Mr. Martin was armed and did attempt to fire his weapon at the officer.

The individual who was with Martin at the time confirmed the same. He told police that he fled for fear of his life. He didn’t know if he would be shot.

http://fox2now.com/2014/12/30/update-berkeley-mayor-to-hold-news-conference-on-officer-involved-shooting/

[ellenrr]

94. "we"? When have "we" cried wolf?

when is the last time we claimed a Black person was shot unjustifiably,
and it turned out "we" were 'crying wolf'?

do tell please.

btw, I am not part of your "we"

[rogerashton]

95. This Reuters account covers also a song ---

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/24/us-usa-police-shooting-idUSKBN0K20I920141224

Images and video footage showed a flash, a loud bang and smoke filling an area near the gas pumps, but it was not clear whether they were caused by bystanders or the police. Local broadcaster KSDK reported people hurled rocks and bricks toward police.

Snip

LAPD INVESTIGATES SONG

Snip

In Los Angeles, police said they would investigate whether any officers were involved in the singing of a song, at a party organized by a retired policeman, that poked fun at the Ferguson killing.

The lyrics of the song, on a video posted on entertainment news website TMZ, said: "Michael Brown learned a lesson about a messin' with a badass policeman."

[LittleBlue]

106. Here is more video released by St Louis PD, from different angles and showing the shooting

[uponit7771]

109. Like the first 2 grainy videos there's NO ONE WITH A GUN in those two videos other than a cop...

.... people running and crap doesn't mean someone had a gun...

Show the damn dash cam and this is all over...

The BPD should have released the dash cam by now...

They're releasing editied video and this crap...

[PeteSelman]

107. Sad but this one appears to be legitimate.

What the hell was this guy thinking? You have to know it's not going to work out for you if you point a gun at a cop. You're either going to end up on death row or dead.

[uponit7771]

108. No it doesn't, this one is about as bad as Brown... except here the cop was SUPPOSED to wear a body

... body cam and thy PD refuses to show dash cam

The video was edited by the BPD and the supposed "gun" is no where around the kid that was shot...

The kid that was shot was not even being held by the officer

His girlfriend has already contradicted some of the cops story...

Again,

Cop was no wearing assigned body cam
Dash cam not released
BPD edited the store video
Girlfriend disputes some of cops account
Gun no where near where the kid got shot

I'm holding on this one too... it aint looking good so far for the BPD

[Gravitycollapse]

110. The video shows someone pointing what appears to be a gun at the cop.

It's not incontrovertible evidence. But it's certainly fairly damning.

The full video needs to be released and an independent investigation should be conducted. But if we were looking at the current preponderance of the evidence, I'd say it's more likely than not that the officer acted correctly.

[uponit7771]

111. There is no video of anyone pointing a gun at the cop, there's no one there who fires a gun

... other than a cop..

What UNEDITED video are you looking at?!

[Gravitycollapse]

112. There is video of someone pointing a gun at the cop.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/12/24/man-shot-killed-berkeley/20849045/

All security cam video needs to be released. But that certainly looks like a gun being pointed at the cop right before it freezes.

[uponit7771]

113. That's the BPD edited video... Just found out the place had a corner cam they're not releasing video

... of...

So that's what?!

3 videos that are missing

body cam
dash cam
Store corner cam

Then the video they DO release is edited towards the end?!

The girlfriend has already disputed the story...

[Gravitycollapse]

115. Regardless of the video being cut off, you can see what appears to be a gun pointed at the cop.

We obviously need to see the entire video and all other video should be released. But that first portion alone should lead us to at least suspect the victim did point a gun at the cops.

[951-Riverside]

118. We're being told that he pointed a gun but I don't see it and I watched the videos

The first video that shows everything was edited and frozen at the time they allege he pointed a gun and the second video is cropped and doesn't show him at all.

They need to release all videos unedited.

Lets put this to rest already. I don't care what the mayor has to say, I don't care what witnesses have to say, I don't care what the police chief has to say, just release the unedited videos.

That's all I'm asking.

[uponit7771]

122. +1, release unedited videos.. admit the cop wasn't wearing a body cam and then not show

...every angle of the shooting...

I find it strange there was a lady walking nonchalantly towards the scene were a person "supposed" pulled out a gun...

[Gravitycollapse]

127. I agree that all video should be released immediately.

But I disagree that there is no video evidence that a gun was pointed at the cop. I see what appears to be a gun pointed by the victim at the cop right before the video freezes. Does that guarantee what I see is a gun? No.

[uponit7771]

120. No, I need to see the gun.. clearly... no what someone is calling a gun... where's the guy

... who ran...

He can give an account?!

I'll withhold judgment ...

[IdiotWatcher]

153. Get your eyes checked

Your eyeglass prescription may have changed.

[uppityperson]

154. welcome to du. may you learn something here

[uponit7771]

114. Wait... wait... in the video there's CLEARLY a woman walking towards the scene... why would anyone..

..in their right mind be doing that if the kid had a gun!?!?!

wow...

nah...

this is already looking scarnge

[maced666]

116. Get real.

Everyone wanted video in Browns case.
In this case we have it and the VIDEO is lying.
Good grief.

[uponit7771]

119. Video is edited... you know that right?!

[Gravitycollapse]

117. It doesn't appear as though the victim brandished the gun until he pointed it at the cop.

Which would make sense given the woman's lack of reaction. At that point in the video, no one but the victim knows there's about to be a gun in play.

[uponit7771]

121. The lady was clearly looking at the scene, even opens the door for the kid who ran after the cop

... began shooting...

I doubt if the kid had a gun she'd just walk nonchalantly towards the scene

No body cam and a bunch of edited videos...

I'm holding judgement just like Ferguson, I was right then...

Wilsons story on Browns hands being up contradicted 100% every witness account...

[Gravitycollapse]

123. You're not getting what I'm saying. He didn't brandish the gun until he pointed it.

Which is after the woman walked by. Of course she's not going to see a gun that the victim hadn't brandished yet. And she was walking into the store, not towards the officer and victim.

You can see in the video that the victim pointed what appears to be a gun at the cop. Now, could it have been something else? Yes. But it certainly looks like the silhouette of a gun. Not to mention, there's a photo of a gun on the ground at the crime scene.

We all have extreme justification to be suspicious of any police officer involved shooting, especially in the area where this happened. But it also is not unprecedented that someone would point a gun at a cop. The evidence thus far suggests the victim pointed a gun at the cop. Is there a possible world where that isn't what actually happened? Absolutely. As I said before, this is not incontrovertible evidence.

[uponit7771]

124. There was no "walk by" I'm talking about the women with the white pants walking TOWARDS the scene...

... she didn't react till the police started shooting...

She's near the store door, I've been there... someone pulls a gun you get gone QUICK!!!

The video I saw and see is edited.. I don't know what the kid pointed at the cop and I'm not giving these bastards the benefit of the doubt.

If the woman or the other guy come back and say it was a gun then so be it...

It doesn't look like that so far to me...

[Gravitycollapse]

125. You don't have to give them the benefit of the doubt. You just have to use your own two eyes.

You don't have to assume the cop was acting correctly merely because he's a cop. You don't have to assume the victim had a gun because he was black. You don't have to assume any of these things. All you have to do is see that it appears the victim pointed a gun at the cop.

That looks like a gun to me. Maybe it doesn't to you, but it does to me.

[GGJohn]

128. Forget it.

There could be a close up of the person pointing the gun at the cop and some here would still yell coverup or I can't see a gun.
Most of the time, the cops do get it right.

[Gravitycollapse]

129. I don't have much reason to believe they get it right most of the time.

But I do have reason in this specific instance to believe that the victim pointed a gun at the cop.

[GGJohn]

130. Considering there are hundrens of thousands of cops in this country,

it's a safe bet to say that for the most part, they do get it right, it's the bad cops that get all the press, not the one's who do their job without any fanfare.

[Gravitycollapse]

132. Cops operate in a corrupt system. Every day they make decisions to prop up said system.

Decisions that are probably minor, although some are massive and cost lives. But the majority of the time they do things which are seemingly inconsequential that all add up to the status quo. That is the problem with systemic or objective violence. We are talking about an immense social, political and legal machine.

The only real way to stop this is to refuse to participate. Of course, that's not an easy answer either. I suppose there are no easy solutions on this matter. But something has to change.

[GGJohn]

134. Don't get me wrong, something has to change,

cops need to have their military equipment taken away, get rid of these military like uniforms, go back to the traditional uniform, go back to traditional community policing, better screening of recruits, more emphasis on non lethal means of use of force, etc.
Just a few suggestions.

[uponit7771]

136. Fine, you trust the BPDs edited video... I don't, I want to see the whole thing and hear from

... the peoeple that were there

[LincolnsLeftHand]

137. Why are the people that were there any more trustworthy than the police?

Eyewitness testimony is very unreliable, even if the witnesses aren't intentionally dishonest (as some were in the Ferguson shooting).

[Gravitycollapse]

139. Witness testimony would be unreliable from either side.

Friends of the victim have an incentive to lie. The cops have an incentive to lie. Neither should be trusted without considerable physical evidence.

[uponit7771]

147. Not this bullshit again, so anyone else would be indicted by the witness's telling similar account

... account and the accounts don't have to match 90 freakin percent like the copolgist are intimating.

anyone else...

Except for the cops...

not this bullshit again

[Gravitycollapse]

148. I'm sure you're aware of the joke that a prosecutor could indict a ham sandwich.

Which doesn't speak to the strength or ethical fortitude of an indictment.

I don't trust a cop to tell the truth anymore than I would trust the friend of the victim. As I said, neither are reliable testimony because there is a clear incentive to lie if it ends in your favor. The best kind of witness is one from the outside without a specific interest in the parties involved.

[uponit7771]

149. Everyone else but a cop is a ham sandwhich... impunity is not good to give someone who has a

... gun and a disconnection from the people they're supposed to be serving

[Gravitycollapse]

150. You're preaching to the choir.

[uponit7771]

142. The SL area PD don't have any credibility... PERIOD.. till this day Wilson has NOT filled out....

...an incident report and his testimoney on Browns holding his hands up is 100% divergent of all the witness's.

An incident report would have kept that crap down and he would not have had a chance to change his story...

[uponit7771]

143. I am using my own two eyes and my eyes don't see a definitive gun or even anything "pointing"

... at the cop.

The witness's will tell, I could be wrong

[PeteSelman]

144. Come on, you have to pick your battles.

This one is a loser.

Of course, you're welcome to do as you see fit but you can see the gun in the video and in the still picture.

Not every police action is murder.

[uponit7771]

145. After the witness's accounts coming in I disagree, I knew there was something wrong when the media

... is showing no witness accounts and they witness's have to go through the internet..

Again, the girlfriend who was there is disputing the cops account and the cop not wearing his body came take the benefit of the doubt away from him imho...

Not every police action is murder

Yeah, except when it's a black male its more likely to be a killing and that's fucked up...

In this case the BPD has done enough (really, an edited video!??!!) not to deserve the benefit of the doubt

[vdogg]

138. NBC has all three videos

There is clearly a gun pointed at the cop. The cop clearly backs away in panic and keeps running after he stops shooting. This was the real deal. The guy in Eric Garner's case should have been charged. The Tamir Rice cop should be charged also. I'm still on the fence about Mike Brown, but this particular one is as clear as day. I wish I knew what the hell was going threw that kids mind when he pointed the gun. I can honestly say if I were in the cops shoes I would've shot too. I wish people would wait for all the facts before they react to this stuff, sometimes things just aren't as they appear. The media bears a ton of responsibility in this regard. Clickbaity headlines that lack details are designed to get people riled up.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/st-louis-county-police-release-new-video-fatal-shooting-teen-n274566

[840high]

140. Thanks for link.

[uponit7771]

146. No its not "Clear" the video was edited by the BPD... show ALL Of the video ... we have no idea

... what the kid was doing with no clear UNEDITED video

also,

these are the same videos that have been out there.. the ONLY one showing the kids hands was edited by the BPD

[Vattel]

151. So far it looks like justified self-defense. I hope that appearance and reality coincide.

[mimi85]

152. Yes, it does.

Black police chief, mainly black police force from what I've read. I think this is a whole different situation as the videos and reports have shown. Still horribly sad - feel awful for his mother and family. All because of an apparent shop lifting incident. Can't cops aim for legs - or use tasers, or anything else? Damn guns!!

I still like Chris Rock's solution.