Forget 'evil' Putin - we are the bloodthirsty warmongers
This is an excellent column. It is well worth reading in its entirety.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2882208/PETER-HITCHENS-Forget-evil-Putin-bloodthirsty-warmongers.html
Forget 'evil' Putin - we are the bloodthirsty warmongers
By PETER HITCHENS FOR THE MAIL ON SUNDAY
PUBLISHED: 19:23 EST, 20 December 2014 | UPDATED: 05:33 EST, 21 December 2014
<edit>
This is all the most utter garbage. Since 1989, Moscow, the supposed aggressor, has – without fighting or losing a war – peacefully ceded control over roughly 180 million people, and roughly 700,000 square miles of valuable territory.
<edit>
Until a year ago, Ukraine remained non-aligned between the two great European powers. But the EU wanted its land, its 48 million people (such a reservoir of cheap labour!) its Black Sea coast, its coal and its wheat.
So first, it spent £300 million (some of it yours) on anti-Russian ‘civil society’ groups in Ukraine.
Then EU and Nato politicians broke all the rules of diplomacy and descended on Kiev to take sides with demonstrators who demanded that Ukraine align itself with the EU.
<edit>
Then a violent crowd (20 police officers died at its hands, according to the UN) drove the elected president from office, in violation of the Ukrainian constitution.
<edit>
If anyone really is trying to punish the Russian people for being patriotic, by debauching the rouble, I cannot imagine anything more irresponsible. It was the destruction of the German mark in 1922, and the wipeout of the middle class that resulted, which led directly to Hitler.
Stupid, ill-informed people nowadays like to compare Mr Putin with Hitler. I warn them and you that, if we succeed in overthrowing Mr Putin by unleashing hyper-inflation in Russia, we may find out what a Russian Hitler is really like. And that a war in Europe is anything but fun.
So, as it’s almost Christmas, let us sing with some attention that bleakest and yet loveliest of carols, It Came Upon The Midnight Clear, stressing the lines that run ‘Man at war with man hears not the love song which they bring. Oh, hush the noise, ye men of strife, and hear the angels sing’.
more...
= new reply since forum marked as read
Response to Karmadillo (Reply #17)
I guess if you over look the whole war in Chechnya thing...or Georgia.
Response to Igel (Reply #8)
In the hour of the death of President John F. Kennedy, Texas oilman George Herbert Walker Bush, telephoned the FBI and named a suspect in a "confidential" phone call. He then added he was heading for Dallas.
Here's a transcript of the text:
TO: SAC, HOUSTON DATE: 11-22-63
FROM: SA GRAHAM W. KITCHEL
SUBJECT: UNKNOWN SUBJECT;
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT
JOHN F. KENNEDY
At 1:45 p.m. Mr. GEORGE H. W. BUSH, President of the Zapata Off-Shore Drilling Company, Houston, Texas, residence 5525 Briar, Houston, telephonically furnished the following information to writer by long distance telephone call from Tyler, Texas.
BUSH stated that he wanted to be kept confidential but wanted to furnish hearsay that he recalled hearing in recent weeks, the day and source unknown. He stated that one JAMES PARROTT has been talking of killing the President when he comes to Houston.
BUSH stated that PARROTT is possibly a student at the University of Houston and is active in political matters in this area. He stated that he felt Mrs. FAWLEY, telephone number SU 2-5239, or ARLINE SMITH, telephone number JA 9-9194 of the Harris County Republican Party Headquarters would be able to furnish additional information regarding the identity of PARROTT.
BUSH stated that he was proceeding to Dallas, Texas, would remain in the Sheraton-Dallas Hotel and return to his residence on 11-23-63. His office telephone number is CA 2-0395.
# # #
Gee. Why was Poppy Bush in Dallas when JFK was assassinated?
Could it be, he was on official business? I suspect he was on Secret Government business. After all, his eldest son bragged during his Texas Air National Guard and Harvard grad school days that his daddy was CIA.
Here's an FBI document from the same week of the assassination in which FBI Director J Edgar Hoover briefed one "Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency." Some strange coincidence there, wot?
Here's a transcript of the above:
Date: November 29, 1963
To: Director
Bureau of Intelligence and Research
Department of State
From: John Edgar Hoover, Director
Subject: ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY
NOVEMBER 22, 1963
Our Miami, Florida, Office on November 23, 1963, advised that the Office of Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in Miami advised that the Department of State feels some misguided anti-Castro group might capitalize on the present situation and undertake an unauthorized raid against Cuba, believing that the assassination of President John F. Kennedy might herald a change in U. S. policy, which is not true.
Our sources and informants familiar with Cuban matters in the Miami area advise that the general feeling in the anti-Castro Cuban community is one of stunned disbelief and, even among those who did not entirely agree with the President's policy concerning Cuba, the feeling is that the President's death represents a great loss not only to the U. S. but to all of Latin America. These sources know of no plans for unauthorized action against Cuba.
An informant who has furnished reliable information in the past and who is close to a small pro-Castro group in Miami has advised that these individuals are afraid that the assassination of the President may result in strong repressive measures being taken against them and, although pro-Castro in their feelings, regret the assassination.
The substance of the foregoing information was orally furnished to Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency and Captain William Edwards of the Defense Intelligence Agency on November 23, 1963, by Mr. W. T. Forsyth of this Bureau.
# # #
Hmm. "Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency."
Russ Baker in his "Family of Secrets" discussed these memos (which many first learned about on DU). Keep an eye peeled for David Talbot, who is working on Allen Dulles' connections to the assassination. If you see it before I do, please give me a heads-up.
Response to mythology (Reply #9)
Is this guy fucking serious? 
on the Ritz.
That turned out pretty well for them. 
Thank you for your continuing efforts to get the truth out here on DU.
You do realize, I'm sure, that, in regard to Putin or the events of the past year in Ukraine, what's the accepted narrative on DU is a complete inversion of the facts. It's widely understood, and consistently reported, by credible individuals across the internet, that there was a coup in Ukraine, instigated by the US government, and the ensuing events are as described, again, with consistency, across the board.
Further, there has been a vile and vicious demonization campaign against Vladimir Putin, because, in part, he had the temerity to say "Nyet!" to the Empire. For those who pay attention, Putin is being seen as a statesman, one of few on the world stage, today.
Yes, I said, "statesman".
His Valdai speech of several months ago has generated considerable discussion and has even been described as the most important foreign policy speech in recent memory. You'd never know that, though, to judge by the venomous and puerile responses, here, whenever someone posts an article that is contrary to the received wisdom that we're all supposed to accept without question.
As a matter of fact, I would be surprised if any of the naysayers have even bothered to read the Valdai speech in its entirety. You never know; they might learn something.
Karmadillo, here is a link to an article that I hope you'll read. A clear and simply stated response to Putin's speech.
"The New York Times doesn't want you to understand this Vladimir Putin speech"
http://www.salon.com/2014/11/07/the_new_york_times_doesnt_want_you_to_understand_this_vladimir_putin_speech/
Here's an excerpt:
snip>
Putin’s speech is so many magnitudes more sensible and credible than anything we have heard from Washington in who can say how long that one must either laugh or do the other thing. He has always seemed to me to honor history, and here he speaks with its authority. This is where the world is now, these are the mistakes that made it this way, and this is how we can correct them. And since it is all oars in the water, wake from your slumber, Americans.
snip>
As to the man who delivered these remarks, there ought to have been no need for me to propose the above experiment — reading the speech while forgetting the speaker. But this is where America’s childish, undignified name-calling and demonization, as awful as anything in “Lord of the Flies,” lands us.
I think that phrase from the Christmas carol bears repeating:
‘Man at war with man hears not the love song which they bring. Oh, hush the noise, ye men of strife, and hear the angels sing’.
Thanks for reading.
And then, somewhere down the thread again, more of the same.
At least the other dialogue here's worth the read…
What is the purpose of throwing out some crude and puerile epithet to show that you disagree with someone's assessment of a situation?
Whose opinion do you hope to influence? Do you think anyone is going to choose your argument over mine? On the merits, I mean.
Whenever anyone does this sort of thing it just tells me that they have bupkis in the way of a reasoned response. 
Thanks for playing, though.
I was just trying to inject a little humor. Sorry if it offended. 
As to the rest of your post, you seem to be really angry about this. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Response to NuclearDem (Reply #37)
of USA Disinformation which your post implies you've maybe missed some parts of.
Just think about what you posted and turn it around to reflect USA Policy and you might understand where I'm coming from
Your comment in reply to me must have been missing the Tag? 
A great article from Katya Soldak of Forbes from two years' back.
Message from Condoleezza Rice to Ukraine:
"The World is Watching You"
Katya Soldak
Forbes, 9/19/2012
Recently, Condoleezza Rice, Dominique Strauss-Kahn, Gordon Brown, Ukrainian president Victor Yanukovych and Turkish Prime Minister Recep Erdogan congregated at Livadia Palace in Southern Ukraine, the summer retreat of the last Russian tsar, Nicolas II—a Renaissance style building on the top of a hill, with the Black Sea rolling below. The same place as where Theodore Roosevelt, Winston Churchill and Joseph Stalin met at their famed Yalta conference of 1945.
The difference is that back then the rulers of the powerful countries met to make real decisions about the world’s future. This past weekend, Rice, and other guests of the 9th annual Yalta European Strategy meeting came to share their thoughts about the world’s challenges. Discussions today could influence policymakers and lead to making tomorrow’s decisions.
Among the matters discussed were the economic future of Europe and the role of the United States in dealing with economic and political issues of today. Meanwhile, the Ukrainian theme continued throughout the two-day conference. The government imprisoned former prime minister and opposition leader, Yulia Tymoshenko, and this has drawn criticism by the West; Ukraine tightens conditions for independent media and freedom of speech; the parliamentary elections coming up this October have already caused concerns among democratic observers on the subject of fairness and transparency.
Condoleezza Rice made it clear in her speech that the world is interested in Ukraine and is carefully watching all its developments: “Country like Ukraine with consolidation of democracy is watched carefully,” she said. Rice emphasized the importance of freedom of speech and free elections. “If Ukraine speaks in one voice, this voice would be heard.”
SNIP...
Indeed, the 9th annual Yalta conference – by many opinions, one of the best international platforms for discussions among high-profile politicians and innovative thinkers – is organized by Ukrainian billionaire Victor Pinchuk’s foundation and is taking place in Ukraine at a time when European leaders have recently boycotted the Euro 2012 soccer championship over Tymoshenko’s arrest and detainment. The fact that American politicians like Condoleezza Rice and Britain’s Gordon Brown attended, can’t be attributed to good relationships between Ukrainian and Western governments.
CONTINUED...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/katyasoldak/2012/09/19/message-from-condoleezza-rice-to-ukraine-the-world-is-watching-you/
In retrospect, it appears the Neocons -- the axis of Wall Street and Secret Government -- have stayed on top the entire time. And, like their ilk did to Iran in 1953, the Ukraine Operation will not benefit the American people as a whole, apart from Joe Biden's son and the others with a commercial interest. It will benefit the owners of Big Oil and Condoleeza Rice.
Have a great new year, Brad!
Maybe 2015 is the year you solve the crop circle mystery and the JFK assassination!
You've implicated EVERYONE except Lee Harvey Oswald.
I've said that to you often, over the years.
Do you ever tire of this particular smear?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4184210
Lee Harvey Oswald.
BTW, you must be excited about the Lions getting into the playoffs!
Go Lions!
In the hour of the death of President John F. Kennedy, Texas oilman George Herbert Walker Bush, telephoned the FBI and named a suspect in a "confidential" phone call. He then added he was heading for Dallas.
Here's a transcript of the text:
TO: SAC, HOUSTON DATE: 11-22-63
FROM: SA GRAHAM W. KITCHEL
SUBJECT: UNKNOWN SUBJECT;
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT
JOHN F. KENNEDY
At 1:45 p.m. Mr. GEORGE H. W. BUSH, President of the Zapata Off-Shore Drilling Company, Houston, Texas, residence 5525 Briar, Houston, telephonically furnished the following information to writer by long distance telephone call from Tyler, Texas.
BUSH stated that he wanted to be kept confidential but wanted to furnish hearsay that he recalled hearing in recent weeks, the day and source unknown. He stated that one JAMES PARROTT has been talking of killing the President when he comes to Houston.
BUSH stated that PARROTT is possibly a student at the University of Houston and is active in political matters in this area. He stated that he felt Mrs. FAWLEY, telephone number SU 2-5239, or ARLINE SMITH, telephone number JA 9-9194 of the Harris County Republican Party Headquarters would be able to furnish additional information regarding the identity of PARROTT.
BUSH stated that he was proceeding to Dallas, Texas, would remain in the Sheraton-Dallas Hotel and return to his residence on 11-23-63. His office telephone number is CA 2-0395.
# # #
Gee. Why was Poppy Bush in Dallas when JFK was assassinated?
Could it be, he was on official business? I suspect he was on Secret Government business. After all, his eldest son bragged during his Texas Air National Guard and Harvard grad school days that his daddy was CIA.
Here's an FBI document from the same week of the assassination in which FBI Director J Edgar Hoover briefed one "Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency." Some strange coincidence there, wot?
Here's a transcript of the above:
Date: November 29, 1963
To: Director
Bureau of Intelligence and Research
Department of State
From: John Edgar Hoover, Director
Subject: ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY
NOVEMBER 22, 1963
Our Miami, Florida, Office on November 23, 1963, advised that the Office of Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in Miami advised that the Department of State feels some misguided anti-Castro group might capitalize on the present situation and undertake an unauthorized raid against Cuba, believing that the assassination of President John F. Kennedy might herald a change in U. S. policy, which is not true.
Our sources and informants familiar with Cuban matters in the Miami area advise that the general feeling in the anti-Castro Cuban community is one of stunned disbelief and, even among those who did not entirely agree with the President's policy concerning Cuba, the feeling is that the President's death represents a great loss not only to the U. S. but to all of Latin America. These sources know of no plans for unauthorized action against Cuba.
An informant who has furnished reliable information in the past and who is close to a small pro-Castro group in Miami has advised that these individuals are afraid that the assassination of the President may result in strong repressive measures being taken against them and, although pro-Castro in their feelings, regret the assassination.
The substance of the foregoing information was orally furnished to Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency and Captain William Edwards of the Defense Intelligence Agency on November 23, 1963, by Mr. W. T. Forsyth of this Bureau.
# # #
Hmm. "Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency."
Russ Baker in his "Family of Secrets" discussed these memos (which many first learned about on DU). Keep an eye peeled for David Talbot, who is working on Allen Dulles' connections to the assassination. If you see it before I do, please give me a heads-up.
Which is a lot different from what you said I said. And what you said doesn't really say much, does it, zappaman?
I'm sure they can convince somebody, somewhere with this bullshit if they try hard enough!
Putin stayed his hand and showed how reasonable he was by not invading Iraq after the US experienced the worst terrorist attack in it's history.
What more proof do you need that America is more bloodthirsty than Russia?
Scapegoating LGBT and a military conquest to increase his country's territory is just his way of being a swell guy.
Why don't more people understand that?
--- in case it's needed