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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFive things white people should know about cultural appropriation
http://www.dailydot.com/opinion/5-things-white-people-cultural-appropriation/If you’re Katy Perry, for example, you believe it’s A-OK to don corn rows and gel down your baby hair, put on some long fingernails and so-called sassy mannerisms with a “blaccent” and slang to portray how you believe certain black women behave and speak. But when you do it, as a white artist, you perpetuate a long legacy of white cultural theft—in addition to bypassing all the racist and misogynist insults those black women must contend with on a daily basis. That includes being called “ghetto” by white (and other) people, typecast as a welfare queen or otherwise told that your natural hairstyles and expressions are inferior and unwelcome. These are symptomatic of slavery and segregation in America and, yes, this really still happens every day. And it’s cultural appropriation.
As writer Tamara Winfrey Harris expertly notes over at Racialicious, it’s the oppression that causes the intense offense that many people—mainly white people—seek to explain away rather than critically question.
A Japanese teen wearing a t-shirt emblazoned with the logo of a big American company is not the same as Madonna sporting a bindi as part of her latest reinvention. The difference is history and power. Colonization has made Western Anglo culture supreme–powerful and coveted. It is understood in its diversity and nuance as other cultures can only hope to be. Ignorance of culture that is a burden to Asians, African, and indigenous peoples, is unknown to most European descendants or at least lacks the same negative impact.
And what makes cultural appropriation all the more infuriating for people of color rests on the fact that other people—white or not—can take off their costume and return to everyday life without the discrimination or stigma commonly associated with those cultural expressions. Just because you may find any elements of another culture or subculture to be awe-inspiring, or even have an odd fetish or fascination with it, using those expressions dispensibly is an insult that comes with a long history and trend of racial and ethnic discrimination and prejudice. It’s insulting to say the least.
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elfin
(6,262 posts)
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)from others.
The bindi will always be Indian, please feel free to borrow it, no problems, yar?
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Those that were here first set the norm. Others added to it, of course, but the primary influence was England, then other parts of the UK and other parts of Northern Europe. From there other things were added by other groups in later ways of immigration, but the White Anglo-Saxon Protestants ran everything well into the mid to late 20th century.
Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)Uh, hate to break it to you, but North America has had people "here" for tens of thousands of years.
It amazes me to this day that most in the US totally pretend that entire populations of people never existed at all before 1492. The taught "history" that hides the genocide of those people works very, very well.
And, probably the French and Spanish , perhaps the Chinese and even the Vikings were here before the British. We are learning more every day about early travel.
The English were not HERE FIRST.
Carry on....
kwassa
(23,340 posts)The Native Americans were here for thousands of years.
The English were the dominant white colonial population that came to the eastern seaboard of what is now the US. As they proceeded to subjugate the Native Americans, they imposed their own culture on what this country became. Many of the indigenous peoples died of European diseases soon after contact, too.
There were other European colonists than came about the same time, and there were no lasting colonies from any earlier group. The English prevailed over the other groups, and that is why their culture prevailed.
wyldwolf
(43,891 posts)Rejection of the idea that cultural appropriation is harmful is often based on a choice to see appropriation as "cultural cross-fertilization" and as something done out of admiration with no intent to harm the cultures being imitated.[27] For instance, John McWhorter, a professor at Columbia university and contributing editor at The New Republic, has written that, "The idea that when we imitate something we are seeking to replace it rather than join it is weak. ... Every language in the world is shot through with words and grammatical patterns from other languages—that is, signs of people in the past doing what we would call 'appropriating.'"[27] Critics argue this analysis omits the issue of colonialism, context, and the difference between cultural exchange that happens on an "even playing field", and pieces of an oppressed culture taken out of context by a people who have historically oppressed those they are taking from.[9][28]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_appropriation#Criticism_of_the_concept
I would contend white rappers are clearly either playing on a level playing field or are the minority in hip hop.
Someone made a point earlier - isn't the widespread practice of Yoga and the popularity of Chipolte restaurants also cultural appropriation? And doesn't Western Culture encourage, even demand, cultural assimilation?
Still, I understand the point about 'black face.' But wasn't black face a form of ridiculing black culture as opposed to white rappers clearly admiring hip hop culture?
Response to wyldwolf (Reply #3)
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Taitertots
(7,745 posts)When two people from different cultures exchange ideas/fashion/music/art it is a positive event.
It is only through cultural integration (you call it appropriation) can two separate people learn to understand each other and become one human race.
MADem
(135,425 posts)6. If Justin Beiber is doing it, it's just WRONG!
7. It is NOT all about the "bandonkadonk." Ass enhancement won't make you look "good" if your body type supports a smaller profile. Be proud of your natural self, whatever that might be.
8. In many cases, hijab is NOT a fashion statement, and even though you'll see plenty of "Oh, I LIKE it" comments, be aware that many, many people would like--but do not have-- the CHOICE to wear it. Keep that in mind before leaping to defend it, it's a complex issue and people who do not want to be alienated from their own culture will (gasp, shock) LIE about how they feel about it.
9. Child marriage is NEVER "OK." The whole "Oh, it's just their culture" thing doesn't cut it., particularly when excusing it in less developed nations.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)my entertainment is probably even more diverse than that. I have taken several cross cultural classes in college. I listen to music of all genres(except Opera I really rather hate it), my children are not white (I am not altogether white actually either just a tad more than my kids, but I sure do pass), oh and my children they also mostly look white. If anyone is offended because I talk like I am from the hood, it's kinda tough cuz for most my life I have hung out in the hood and my friends well that's just how we talk to each other.
MrScorpio
(73,761 posts)
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)Talk about a slam dunk post!
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Supporter of the Cleveland Indians baseball team - note the player names on the side of his shirt.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)That wasn't in question. Not sure of your point.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)The Cleveland Indians have been using "Chief Wahoo" as their mascot for decades. It's time for them to change. I blame the organization more than the guy who dressed up as the image on the logo for the team he supports. The Cleveland Indians baseball team ownership needs to make the change (as should the Washington Redskins).
blackspade
(10,056 posts)This is decisive and racist and exactly what I was talking about down thread.
This is definitely not the same as corn rowed hair or practicing Yoga.
yuiyoshida
(44,914 posts)
Response to gollygee (Original post)
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ismnotwasm
(42,663 posts)Sometimes no line at all.
Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #9)
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ismnotwasm
(42,663 posts)Is blackface. And wearing a hijab is a spiritual/religious statement, not a fashion one.
And you are not the arbitrator of who gets to feel affended by culture appropriation and who doesn't.
Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #11)
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ismnotwasm
(42,663 posts)And you are correct-- how you feel about a topic, is your business. How a culture/ethnicity/race generally feels about how their cultural is represented is their's and they have a right to speak up about it.
Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #14)
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ismnotwasm
(42,663 posts)And did you explain to your POC friends that culture appropriation is an excuse to "Bully Whites"?
Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #17)
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ismnotwasm
(42,663 posts)That sounds------ hostile.
Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #20)
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ismnotwasm
(42,663 posts)So it's lack of patience, not hostility.
BumRushDaShow
(165,192 posts)in this thread. There were like 3 iterations of the same troll. 
ismnotwasm
(42,663 posts)
BumRushDaShow
(165,192 posts)I was on a jury for one of them. 
ismnotwasm
(42,663 posts)Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)Like after a chicken has its head cut off, but it still runs around for a few minutes.
It's weird that he came here so early this morning.
I guess he didn't have anything better to do . . like celebrate Christmas morning, take some time away from the computer, give peace a chance, that sort of thing.
Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #22)
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ismnotwasm
(42,663 posts)
jen63
(813 posts)There will be enough of us doing it. Enjoy your day!
whathehell
(30,331 posts)though I agree that, "How a culture/ethnicity/race generally feels about how their cultural is represented is their's and they have a right to speak up about it", it is also true that the 'accused' have a right to defend themselves. BTW, I'm not referencing, or defending the contents of 'message deleted', as I didn't see even see them)
As to "appropriation", the fact is, when two different groups share the same country, they will BOTH come to share parts of each others cultures...Black and White Americans
have been sharing the same country for centuries. It is therefore only natural that they will begin "borrowing" or "appropriating", one from the other, certain things that may have originated with the other's demographic group.
whathehell
(30,331 posts)but it's been "over" for at least seventy five years now.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Minstrel shows are over, but blackface still appears sometimes, and yes this is a kind of blackface and many of the people it's mocking do find it offensive. They're the best judges.
BumRushDaShow
(165,192 posts)http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/26/uc-irvine-blackface-video-fraternity_n_3162657.html
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/UC-Irvine-Fraternity-Lambda-Theta-Delta-Blackface-204882971.html
And this year, Arizona State. A discussion -
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/15/dear-white-people-justin-simien-blackface-college_n_5987242.html
whathehell
(30,331 posts)but they were soundly thumped, as they should have been.
I'm not sure what you mean when you say "this is a kind of blackface"
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)Finally hugely controversial.
MADem
(135,425 posts)It's so tone deaf, but you'll still hear the "Waaah, it's TRADITION" gripes from people who do not want to acknowledge that the reason black people were in Persia is because they were slaves, and Haji Firuz the little helper was a slave, like it or not.
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)BP iirc was a colonial invention...a Moor but no slave.
MADem
(135,425 posts)No idea if Uncle Nowruz and Hajji Firuz were around at the start of the tradition, though.
I do know that it's starting to make some (finally, at long last) uncomfortable, to the point that some people are trying to explain his black face away by suggesting that it's "soot" from chimneys, or escaping from hell, or something on those lines...I don't think the Afro-Iranian community can count on him being gone from the culture immediately, but maybe in time...
A good discussion of the cluelessness found in so many parts of Iran about the Afro-Persian reality:
http://ajammc.com/2012/06/20/the-afro-iranian-community-beyond-haji-firuz-blackface-slavery-bandari-music/
whathehell
(30,331 posts)
bhikkhu
(10,789 posts)borrowing, mixing, melding, and accepting. Its a good thing. Its telling that there really is no core "English" language or culture, most of it is borrowed. The same can be said of most cultures. We all share a common human nature.
On the other hand, close-minded cultures and people have a long history of mocking and denigrating other cultures for the purpose of asserting their personal or cultural superiority. Its important to recognize the difference.
I can see why the people of a culture with a history of being mocked and treated as inferior would be sensitive, but the ability to be proud of one's culture should go hand in hand with a willingness to share it and to accept the appreciation of others for it. Culture is something we all learn, and the more and broader we learn, the more human we are. That's a good thing.
marble falls
(70,488 posts)"And what makes cultural appropriation all the more infuriating for people of color rests on the fact that other people—white or not—can take off their costume and return to everyday life without the discrimination or stigma commonly associated with those cultural expressions. Just because you may find any elements of another culture or subculture to be awe-inspiring, or even have an odd fetish or fascination with it, using those expressions dispensibly is an insult that comes with a long history and trend of racial and ethnic discrimination and prejudice. It’s insulting to say the least."
It trivializes other cultures.
Skittles
(169,263 posts)marble falls
(70,488 posts)blackspade
(10,056 posts)That is where I have issues with the OP.
Using elements of other cultures is not inherently insulting.
How it is used can be though. It is all about context.
helpmetohelpyou
(589 posts)
dawg
(10,777 posts)"We take what we want!" 
Response to dawg (Reply #28)
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ismnotwasm
(42,663 posts)As a talking point?
dawg
(10,777 posts)they'd be called an "idiot".
Response to dawg (Reply #41)
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dawg
(10,777 posts)
But seriously, we're all mongrels. Culture is a fluid thing.
Response to dawg (Reply #49)
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blackspade
(10,056 posts)Or wear armor like that.
dawg
(10,777 posts)Most Norse were probably peaceful farmers, and even the wild ones had enough sense not to go around looking like Hagar the Horrible.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)
hootinholler
(26,451 posts)For an example I hold up the bar chain Twisted Kilt which turns the venerable kilt into a miniskirt for waitresses.
It is insulting to those who hold their heritage dear.
dawg
(10,777 posts)They've got those places all over Atlanta. I sometimes tease my sons by threatening to take them there. They are uptight prudes, just like their Dad.
hootinholler
(26,451 posts)I'm no prude at all, but it really grinds my ass to see the kilt misappropriated like that.
gladium et scutum
(823 posts)Robert the Bruce, would find your garb strange and foreign.
hootinholler
(26,451 posts)I suspect Henry the 8th would find blue jeans and T-shirts strange and foreign also.
He would certainly recognize the kilt, hose and ghillies even in their modern form.
The modernization of garb is not really the point, nor does it excuse disrespect.
marble falls
(70,488 posts)
tblue37
(68,118 posts)rewards--from the music and styles they create, while the white artist who appropriates their work does.
Yes, many black artists do well, but many remain obscure while some cute, bouncy white girl tops the charts playing at being her own pinkish version of "black."
ON EDIT: Oh, and there is also the inherent smirky mockery of treating some other culture's manner of dress, speech, or behavior as a costume, a form of "drag." It is not a form of flattery, no matter how often people claim that is the intention.
Response to tblue37 (Reply #31)
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ismnotwasm
(42,663 posts)Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #36)
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aikoaiko
(34,213 posts)But a people doesn't own culture and Iggy, Katy Perry are not stealing anything.
There are some exceptions historically where copyrighted stuff was stolen, but that's different.
dawg
(10,777 posts)Oh the humanity!
aikoaiko
(34,213 posts)I'm all for legal action in those cases.
Tom Ripley
(4,945 posts)
hughee99
(16,113 posts)from someone else.
ismnotwasm
(42,663 posts)Whites who appropriate culture without understanding the culture. I would say Eminem understands Rap and the roots of Rap, Vanilla Ice didn't.
Then there is a very long, atrocious history in music where blacks never got credit for thier own music, and people from Pat Boone to Elvis Presley did
Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #44)
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BumRushDaShow
(165,192 posts)to the "hip hop" theft argument is the recent young woman to hit that scene - Iggy Azalea. Her ascendence over the summer with the song "Fancy", generated all sorts of controversy in the younger demographic of the AA community (or at least the media critics of that style), although to me, she basically represented someone not unlike my generation's version of a Teena Marie, or a Phoebe Snow, or even a Madonna, all of whom successfully sang music that crossed over into R&B territory... Some of these performers were often embraced by the community or were thought to have actually been black (most notably "Lady Tee" Teena Marie, who passed away what will be 4 years ago tomorrow).
Ironically, despite Iggy Azalea's vocal style (having apparently immersed herself in the Atlanta hip hop scene per an article I read over the summer although she is Australian), her video portrayed essentially white teen cultural themes using black teen cultural music and dance-video styles. Alternately, perennial favorite "Weird Al" Yankovic did a parody video of her song called "Handy", which also lampoons a segment of his own white working class culture. And the album with this song became his very first #1 Billboard-charted album after 30 years of performing parodies (like his previous famous "Eat It" parody of Michael Jackson's "Beat It"
.
ismnotwasm
(42,663 posts)I think about tropes and memes. Miley Cyrus who used Black women as props.
I think somethings resonate so strongly--the Blues for instance, that the appropriation is quite unintentional. For instance, although the majority of early Black what blues did not get credit until racism was filleted open a bit players such as Eric Clapton or singers such as Janis Jopln at least gave credit to the roots of what they were profiting off of, while delighting many people. I asked him to do things such as imagining Billie Holiday singing the Blues without the Orchestra backing
My oldest grandson, still 15, plays a mean Blues guitar. I made sure he knew about players like Robert Johnson or Buddy Woods, even if I had to look them up. He found other early Blues player to listen to on his own, recognized the blues in early Rock and Roll a lot faster than I did at his age, saw it right away in Jimi Hendrick's music. (He remains a Clapton fan, although for angst he adores Alice in Chains)
So acknowledgment is important at the very least-- an honoring, a respect offered.
BumRushDaShow
(165,192 posts)Particularly to the argument of "imitation" and "flattery".
You can have an Andre Watts magnificently reproduce a Liszt piano concerto (written by the famous Hungarian composer of standard 19th century European orchestral music), yet he does not claim it as his own (despite him being 1/2 Hungarian and 1/2 African American).
Alternately, you can have a Stan Getz (a white jazz performer played often in my household and I still have a bunch of his records that my Dad owned) who adopted a sax style right alongside with his black contemporaries, including Horace Silver and many others. He just did his thing and did it well -not to co-op it but as a contributor to it.
We used to call it "crossover" but I think what has happened is that in a cutthroat industry eager to expand sales, there has been a lot of rejiggering going on to manufacture a re-engineered "Miley Cyrus" (who apparently ran from her own father's music) in order to bring in more $$$$.
As a side note for blues - when you have one of the modern epitome of blues guitar - Bruce Springsteen and of the blues keyboards - Bruce Hornsby, and some of the younger folks not realizing what they are hearing, you know they did not set out to "claim" as their own, but to use as a means for expression.
cemaphonic
(4,138 posts)Post-Reconstruction black musicians were still able to draw on some of the old African musical traditions, as well as the work songs of slavery. But they also were familiar with white people's music - church hymn's, parlor music, music hall and vaudeville songs, etc. They threw all those influences together to create a new kind of music, and one that has influenced pretty much all forms of Western music since, hip-hop included. And a lot of what we consider folk music in the US comes from white musicians in the post-WWII era embracing a strain of the Blues that had pretty much died out among black audiences and performers a decade earlier (and like you say, very respectfully - folks like Pete Seeger and Merle Travis did their best to draw recognition to Leadbelly, and Mississippi John Hurt and others). And a lot of rock and country music flows directly from that wellspring.
I understand being upset about when things like minstrel shows where cultural traditions are used to mock or belittle, but the blending of musical, artistic, culinary traditions has been going on since prehistory, and enriches everybody. Music, in particular has a long history of helping different cultures to relate to and respect one another.
Response to cemaphonic (Reply #93)
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Number23
(24,544 posts)But the SECOND her video came out and suddenly America was like, "hold up - she's WHITE??!" that song (and her entire career) just EXPLODED. Her singing was never that great and neither was her dancing but suddenly she was EVERYWHERE.
For the record, I absolutely love Madonna and always have (though lately she's been a bit off her game) but anyone who tries to pretend that her white blondeness didn't have anything to do with her popularity is fooling themselves. And I will always love Tina Marie. You could put "Lovergirl" on right now and I'd be dancing my ass off.
BumRushDaShow
(165,192 posts)Toni Tennille, or even Cher, thanks to their rich contralto voices in ballads (although both tended to stay with music geared to pop).
Still, Lady Tee I think epitomizes (my song! heh) -
This was a nice little vignette and includes her first TV appearance with RJ -
The black community generally gave credit where credit was due when the person was sincere.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)Dr. Strange
(26,056 posts)So there.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts) Response to Dr. Strange (Reply #64)
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lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Fucking hipsterjacks. That's the kind of cultural appropriation we should all be outraged about.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)
RandySF
(80,865 posts)and tell me you never see one culture adopting characteristics of another.
True Blue Door
(2,969 posts)You have to judge what an individual does on a case-by-case basis. Is this individual dressing like that, getting hair like that, because they like the way it looks, or are they being a shallow clown trying to claim an unearned share of another group's history?
If the latter, then they can be justly mocked. But the former is perfectly legitimate. You can't fight shallowness with shallowness.
JEFF9K
(1,935 posts)Lots of books will have to be rewritten. Minds will have to be re-programmed.
ismnotwasm
(42,663 posts)Have a conversation
JEFF9K
(1,935 posts)and criticized it in the mildest way I could imagine.
ismnotwasm
(42,663 posts)Ok.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)chart and decided to try being a rapper. The kids tell me he is quite good at it. He has taken what he wants out of all the cultures.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)We should brood about cultural appropriation every time we listen to her?
kwassa
(23,340 posts)We tanned her hide when she died, Clyde, and that's it hanging on the shed.
All together now!
Number23
(24,544 posts)kwassa
(23,340 posts)It reminds me of Cosby's mess, in a way, though they don't seem to have statues of limitations on these crimes over there.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)
CaliforniaPeggy
(156,024 posts)I was juror #5.
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Apparently he played with his didgeridoo in A minor (nt)
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Rape joke. Child rape joke, even.
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John1956PA
(4,736 posts)To me, it sounds like poster is making light of statutory rape.
CaliforniaPeggy
(156,024 posts)You were in the minority on this one, though.
I think you're reading too much into the post, myself, but that is just my opinion.
Skittles
(169,263 posts)YER KILLING ME 
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)
Cerridwen
(13,262 posts)interviews.
Does anyone here think she actually honors or respects Jewish traditions and/or religion? Or, do you think she appropriated that symbol for her own cynical ends? Maybe it was just a fashion accessory?
Following the attempted assassination of Congressperson Gabrielle Giffords that resulted in 19 injured and 6 dead, palin was criticized for her rhetoric and her use of the "cross-hairs map." she equated the criticism to "blood libel."
she, and others of her ilk within the r/w movement, have attempted many times to appropriate the language of the Civil Rights movement, and its leaders, as descriptive of their own "persecution" and "oppression."
The r/w noise machine has spent decades appropriating images and words from populist movements and twisting their meanings and context to a perversion that fits their narrative. Fascists called themselves socialists. White supremacists argue they aren't racist, they're just "proud of their heritage like blacks and Jews are."
They have appropriated the US flag; the Christian cross including a perversion of Jesus' teachings; even the description of d/Democrat and d/Democratic, liberal, socialist, and even the word "victim" is now an insult rather than a figure of compassion.
The iconographic images of the Boston Tea Party have been turned into "teabagging for Jesus."
Susan B. Anthony's name has been appropriated for use by an anti-woman organization.
Can you see cultural appropriation when it is done to your culture and language, your values and your history? Or do you honestly believe the things I've listed above were just innocent appropriations of values, language, and culture that the r/wers borrowed because they respected and honored those values and ideals?
Boreal
(725 posts)which is political. She's also a brainwashed Zio"Christian" along the lines of the CUFI freaks. It's not some fake appropriation for political gain. She believes that shit. In her governor's office she had the Israeli flag on the wall behind her desk. Unfortunately, these kinds of people are all too sincere in their beliefs and ARE the Rwingnuts.
haha, frightening and absurd.
madville
(7,834 posts)Jamie Kennedy in Malibu's Most Wanted and J-Rock on Trailer Park Boys come to mind, J-Rock is hilarious though, know what I'm sayin'.
rppper
(2,952 posts)When that movie came out, my son was into late 90s-early 00s rap and hip hop...he still records, performs and writes it...we all watched the movie together with his sister, a couple of cousins and my girlfriend at the time. Kennedy's character was B-Rad, or just Brad....my sons nickname ever since has been B-Rent, or just Brent....his caller ID on my phone to this day is "Malibus most wanted"
Number23
(24,544 posts) kwassa
(23,340 posts)and how few read the article, judging by the response.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)but I could not possibly care less if Katy Perry wears them.
The whole faux debate about "cultural appropriation" is really just a bogus argument that it's fine for some people to dress and act one way, but it's a horrible sin for someone else to do so. It's hypocritical.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)but I know that's easy to do, and commonly done.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Really, now, is the necessary?
gollygee
(22,336 posts)and there's a whole bunch of baggage around it. If you don't know anything about that, it would be an indication of a place where you could start learning.
Number23
(24,544 posts)I mean some of the dumb assed, tone deaf, clueless, entitled responses.
I wish I was surprised by a single person engaging in the "what's the big deal??!" tom assery instead of taking ONE DAMN MINUTE to try to think about any of this but then I'd just be lying.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Even more than discussion of the dreaded White Privilege.
Response to gollygee (Reply #92)
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gollygee
(22,336 posts)and if it has to do with our whole society, it has to do with us. You can't simply erase history and context.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)Bo Derek wore corn rows back in 1979 -
What I find offensive is that the corn rows reportedly are being used as part of an imitation black woman act - "long fingernails and so-called sassy mannerisms with a “blaccent” and slang "
We're Irish, but my daughter's hair is so curly that she has worn it in corn rows from time to time. Corn rows can be an attractive look on people of any color. But to use corn rows as part of a parody of people of a different culture....
Vattel
(9,289 posts)and explaining why it is wrongful. My first thought is that people don't own their culture and so culture cannot be stolen, but when I don't really understand what is being claimed, objecting to it may be premature.
Skittles
(169,263 posts)it's ridiculous...if you don't like these silly, vapid, ignorant artists then don't buy/watch their stuff
Skittles
(169,263 posts)because if they had to define it they'd know how ridiculous it sounds
chrisa
(4,524 posts)On one side, I think taking elements that are interesting from other cultures and using them in our own is a sign of respect. There is no such thing as a group of people "owning" a element of their culture in the sense that someone else can steal it.
On the other hand, sometimes it can be racist - especially if people don't know (or don't care) about emulating that culture correctly, and instead create a caricature. Examples include the pop culture image of a Native American.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Medieval painting of guitarra latina and guitarra morisca from the Cantigas de Santa Maria (13th. century)
BumRushDaShow
(165,192 posts)of Africa, around the 1500s BCE (over 1000 years before Spain got it from the Moors) and from what is now the areas of Iraq & Iran -http://www.guyguitars.com/eng/handbook/BriefHistory.html
(from the Hatshepsut era, 18th Dynasty Egypt)
arcane1
(38,613 posts)White people used it in minstrel shows to mock black people, to the point that today if you ask someone what comes to mind when they think of banjos, the last thing that will come to mind is a black person playing one.
That was definitely appropriation!
BumRushDaShow
(165,192 posts)that was one instrument that I always wanted to learn to play (thanks to the song "Dueling Banjos" when it hit the charts in '73 after the release of "Deliverance" and thanks to Steve Martin, a respectable player himself). When I was younger (some 40 years ago), I actually made a banjo out of my guitar by swapping some strings out and thumb-tacking a guitar high-E string to be a high-G or high-A for the banjo 5th string. Got me the sheet music and did a fair job of it at the time. It's on my to-do list when I retire (especially since I can afford one now)!
Seems to me that being who you are is who you'll be best at being, no matter what culture you're from.
Sweet dreams.
Behind the Aegis
(55,891 posts)Everything is a "Holocaust" and everything is a "Warsaw Ghetto." "Never Again" is for "#everyone". Anytime a Jew(ish) person/politician (or entity (wink, wink)) says something to the contrary of whatever position it is met with "oy!" or "oy vey! or a mockery "mazel tov"" A true minority in EVERY country, save one, is suddenly a majority worthy of mockery, ridicule, and "whataboutery".
oberliner
(58,724 posts)This post almost reads like a parody of itself.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)such reaction says more about them than your OP gollygee
Orrex
(66,604 posts)Some of the specific examples offered at the time seemed questionable, but I found the overall argument quite enlightening. Sadly, the conversation appears not to have advanced very far in the quarter century since then.
One thing that's occurred to me over the years is that this is broadly similar to the literary cliche of the White Savior, who strides in to "save" the minority group that purportedly lacks the wherewithal to save itself.
Ms. Perry and Ms. Azalea are, in effect, "saving" these appropriated elements by making them seem more palatable and acceptable to the broader white consumer base. They might argue that they're serving as defacto cultural ambassadors, but the underlying message seems to be "the majority will only accept elements of your culture that have been successfully repurposed by a member of the majority."
That's my 2₵, and I hasten to add that I claim authority to speak on no one's behalf except my own.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Much black culture has been appropriated by white performers over the past century. It became commercially successful once white performers either copied or created versions of that more acceptable to white audiences.
This is great and all too true:
"the majority will only accept elements of your culture that have been successfully repurposed by a member of the majority."
Response to kwassa (Reply #117)
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blackspade
(10,056 posts)Cultural appropriation occurs whenever to cultures interact and it flows both ways.
Articles like this one assume that there is a distinct cultural boundary between black and white culture in this country.
In fact, that seemingly distinct boundary have been fluid and porous for centuries.
There is one part of the OP that does ring true, and that is this:
"And what makes cultural appropriation all the more infuriating for people of color rests on the fact that other people—white or not—can take off their costume and return to everyday life without the discrimination or stigma commonly associated with those cultural expressions."
However, this assumes that corn rows and bleccents, helmet head hair cuts and power suits, and long hair and leather jackets are not all costumes. They are, and all can be taken off at will. For example, if I am going for a job interview at a corporation, I am going to wear a business suit and will speak without slang or other obvious 'metal' culture accoutrements. Am I culturally appropriating and wearing a costume? Yes, and I can take it off as soon as I hit the door.
The core of this problem is not really cultural appropriation, but racism and a lack of respect for people of color. It Katy Perry likes her hair in corn rows, who the fuck cares? Does she practice racism and bigotry? Same for Madonna, or George Harrison, or Black Sabbath. All have appropriated cultural aspects that are not 'white.' The question should be asked is; does this promote a positive cultural interaction that will enrich and eventually merge cultures? Or is the appropriation decisive and destructive?
LWolf
(46,179 posts)I think there are multiple answers, some of which depend on the individual.
When my white mom sported a big afro in the 70s, which required extensive chemical and other help, and which looked, frankly, absolutely ridiculous on her, it was her attempt to express that whatever culture she was appropriating by doing so should be appreciated and accepted by the mainstream. She may have been misguided; she may not really have understood the ramifications; but it certainly wasn't with racist intent.
When my students have adopted slang and fashions sported by their favorite black rap artists, they've done so with no understanding of history or culture at all; just the adolescent need to be "different" from an adult generation while being "like" their peers and whomever their peers are "following."
And if they happen to be following Katy Perry, I don't think the larger issues would ever occur to them.
BumRushDaShow
(165,192 posts)I remember before Katy Perry was even born (35 years ago), America was dramatically introduced to Bo Derek -
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Once again:
Cultural appropriation is the adoption of elements of one culture by members of a different cultural group, specifically the use by cultural outsiders of a minority, oppressed culture's symbols or other cultural elements.[1][2] It differs from acculturation or assimilation in that cultural "appropriation" or "misappropriation" refers to the adoption of these cultural elements, taken from minority cultures by members of the dominant culture, and then using these elements outside of their original cultural context. This cultural property may be forms of dress or personal adornment, music or art, religion, language, intellectual property or social behavior, all of which may have deep cultural meaning to the original culture, but may be used as fashion by those from outside that culture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_appropriation
Corn rows are not a costume, but a way of keeping black hair from matting and dreading, as are braids. This is the functional purpose of cornrows, which can also have an aesthetic quality to them as well, in the way they are done.
For a black woman to apply for a corporate job, her cornrows or braids have in the past been completely unacceptable. That woman would have to straighten her hair with heat or chemicals, and not leave her hair in it's natural texture in order to fit in the corporate environment. This is damaging to the woman's hair, as well as a rejection of her natural hair.
This cornrow look is imitated by white women who don't need to do it.
Only recently, this last August, has the US military changed it's hair policy to allow cornrows and braids for service members. They were specifically banned before that.
There is a difference between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation; that is the essence of this article. Please read it and understand it. There are many examples in the article, and also many other articles on this same subject.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)you omitted the next paragraph:
In practice, cultural appropriation involves the appropriation of ideas, symbols, artifacts, image, sound, objects, forms or styles from other cultures, from art history, from popular culture or other aspects of human made visual or non visual culture.[3] Anthropologists have studied the process of cultural appropriation, or cultural borrowing (which includes art and urbanism), as part of cultural change and contact between different cultures.[4]
The issue I have with what you posted is right there in the paragraph you cited; appropriation is equated freely with misappropriation, two different definitions. by conflating the two it makes it easy to discuss the negative aspects of cultural appropriation while ignoring the positive ones. Appreciation and misappropriation are two sides for the appropriation coin, and I would definitely agree that there is a slim amount of middle ground between the two.
Modern math for instance is a cultural appropriation from the Muslim cultures. Our modern special forces doctrines are based heavily on native American forms of warfare. Metal music is based on African American blues traditions.
As for corn rows, all forms of physical adornment have a costume or affected quality, no matter the cultural or functional purpose. African American women don't have to wear corn rows, but they do because it connects them to cultures that their ancestors lost when they were enslaved, besides being functional as you noted. But where are corn rows culturally common in Africa? Is a particular African American woman descended from this culture? My point is that cultural appropriation is only bad when it is used negatively to demean or divide cultural groups.
People always appropriate aspects of the cultures that surround them that 'speak' to them on a personal basis. should I be offended by a black man with a triskelion on his arm? Perhaps, but if the symbol speaks to him, it doesn't harm me culturally despite the near cultural Armageddon that was perpetrated on my ancestors. That is why I appreciate the ire that cultural appropriation can cause, but I also understand that this ire ends up creating a narrative that distracts from the root racial and cultural bigotry that is pervasive in the US, especially among 'white' people.
underahedgerow
(1,232 posts)and your clear analysis of the situation.
Marr
(20,317 posts)furniture and everything else included?
Cultures bleed into one another. It's why there are Celtic sculptures in the pediments of Roman structures in Bath. If it weren't for this sort of easy trade of cultural motifs between different groups, the world would look very different and minority groups would simply disappear from the world altogether over time.
I understand the point if we're talking purely about fashion or speech-- but I still think it's more divisive than useful. When different groups adopt one anothers' fashion and speech, it means they're interacting more. The alternative is cloistered little knots of "cultural purity", like those often found in conservative religious sects.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)......
http://www.salon.com/2014/05/17/elvis_wasnt_the_first/
wyldwolf
(43,891 posts)kwassa
(23,340 posts)There was a white jazz band in the early 1920s in New Orleans that claimed they invented jazz. It didn't work.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)It doesn't exist. Cultures have been borrowing ideas for thousands of years. This is no different.
The author calls it "infuriating". Tough. It's the price you will pay for living in a free society.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Yes, cultures borrow from one another. There is a difference between appropriation and appreciation, which is what the article in the OP is about.
The difference is that a dominant culture borrows from an oppressed culture and then claims it as it's own creation.
Cultural appropriation is the adoption of elements of one culture by members of a different cultural group, specifically the use by cultural outsiders of a minority, oppressed culture's symbols or other cultural elements.[1][2] It differs from acculturation or assimilation in that cultural "appropriation" or "misappropriation" refers to the adoption of these cultural elements, taken from minority cultures by members of the dominant culture, and then using these elements outside of their original cultural context. This cultural property may be forms of dress or personal adornment, music or art, religion, language, intellectual property or social behavior, all of which may have deep cultural meaning to the original culture, but may be used as fashion by those from outside that culture.
In practice, cultural appropriation involves the appropriation of ideas, symbols, artifacts, image, sound, objects, forms or styles from other cultures, from art history, from popular culture or other aspects of human made visual or non visual culture.[3] Anthropologists have studied the process of cultural appropriation, or cultural borrowing (which includes art and urbanism), as part of cultural change and contact between different cultures.[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_appropriation
Ace Rothstein
(3,369 posts)...but nobody gives a fuck.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)A distinction concocted out of thin air by academics studying useless fields. Make up a concept with no need to prove it, cite other concocted words, repeat, debate, and draw a salary for it.
It's a term that thrives in fields that are really just clerical work masquerading as intellectual pursuits.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)This has more to do with your level of knowledge than anything else.
It isn't true because you don't know about it. Hardly a persuasive argument.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)I just didn't pile up $100k in student debt to get a degree for reciting these mantras.
You're asking for a persuasive argument against cultural appropriation when its own proponents can't even prove it exists. Or more specifically, proof that if such a concept did exist, it's morally wrong. Not much different than creationism, really, except this is more philosophical than scientific.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Interesting argument.
This clearly wasn't your field of study. What was your major?
It is interesting also that a college graduate rejects academic studies.
Would you like me to dump a bunch of other writings on this subject on you, or can you google them on your own? Many cultural observers have commented on this phenomenon for decades, as I've stated.
It isn't your culture that is being appropriated, so of course you wouldn't see it. Something can't exist unless you see it yourself, can it?
kwassa
(23,340 posts)You give a fuck, or you wouldn't have responded.
Whoever you are.
But the sports illustrated swimsuit thread used up all my first world problems rage.
shanti
(21,782 posts)it used to be called being a "culture vulture" and other undesirable pejoratives that i won't post here...
LincolnsLeftHand
(43 posts)Another culture doesn't get to because it is appropriation? Weird. And so we are taking groups of Americans and dividing them into different cultures that don't get to adopt/participate in the acts of other cultures? That's also weird.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)LincolnsLeftHand
(43 posts)And article imply that only certain ethnic groups get to participate in certain activities. Which is racist. So yeah, that isn't progressive. I'm perfectly ok with Katy Perry having corn rows if she wants, or Eminem or Kid Rock or Beastie Boys making rap albums, because I think it is ok for folks to do what they are called to. And you know what, even if I don't LIKE something it is ok for someone to do it (so long as it doesn't hurt others) because in the US we don't tell people what they can or can't do.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)
malaise
(292,280 posts)although I still detest wigs and weave
redgreenandblue
(2,117 posts)... in terms of leaving a cultural imprint that stretches far outside of their own demographic. How this massive success story can be something to be defensive about is something that puzzles me. Granted, I did not grow up in the United States so sometimes the subtleties of American race relations are hard for me to grasp.
Kurska
(5,739 posts)What music you can perform is determined by the color of your skin. Only whites may play country and only blacks may play R&B. Anyone who is seen crossing the cultural lines of their specifcally designated acceptable racial activities will be shamed.
Jesus, what will come next interracial couples? I mean don't people understand how important it is to "respect" the integrity of other races by keeping the races separate?
Seriously, sometimes reading DU makes me feel like I took a time machine back to 1950.