Hatred of Cops and Support of Drug Legalization

[JEFF9K]

I agree with most of the dominant views at this site. Two exceptions are when it comes to legalization of drugs and hatred of law enforcement. This is partly because of events involving members of my family. Two were killed by drugs and one was shot and killed in the line of duty.

I'm wondering about the connection between the group that's pro-drug and the group that's anti-police. Are they the same people? Anyone have a Venn diagram? When I think back, everyone I've personally known who hated the cops was into illegal drugs.

Which of the following statements do you agree with? :

* I support drug legalization & I hate the police.

* I support drug legalization & I support the police.

* I'm against drug legalization & I hate the police.

* I'm against drug legalization & I support the police.

Is there anyone who isn't into drugs, but supports legalization?

[lame54]

1. I support NOT destroying lives by NOT filling up our prisons

[JEFF9K]

98. Some adjustments may be needed.

[Comrade Grumpy]

2. There are lots of people who aren't "into drugs" who support legalization.

It's smart public policy.

Here's Ethan Nadelmann of the Drug Policy Alliance:

"I've dedicated my life to building an organization and a movement of people who believe we have no choice but to turn our back on the failed prohibitions of the past and embrace new drug policies grounded in science, compassion, health and human rights," Nadelmann told the audience. ”We come from across the political spectrum and almost every other spectrum as well. We’re people who love drugs, people who hate drugs, and people who don’t give a damn about drugs, but every one of us believe that this war on drugs — this heartless and disastrous war on drugs — has got to end.”

[Nevernose]

3. I don't hate cops, I'm opposed to police brutality

And I'm not so much in favor of making drugs available as I am a pragmatist. Clearly the current approach didn't help two members of your family.

Drugs are illegal because they destroy lives, families, and communities. But prohibition arguably destroys even more lives, families, and communities.

I'm not a druggie, but what we've been doing for 80 years obviously doesn't work.

[on point]

11. Support this ^^^. Gee did prohibition in the 30's build up mafia and violence?

Prohibition today is doing the same thing. War on drugs is failure and hurting many more people, than helping, including hurting the cops themselves.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

14. ^----- This----^

I've known some pretty decent cops, my sister's husband was a cop for a while. But what seems to be passing for 'acceptable behaviour' for police when dealing with unarmed males, some committing absolutely no crime at all, is totally ridiculous. Some cops are great, some rescue dogs, small babies, what have you. And others roll up and open fire within seconds, without even trying anything to de-escalate, without even seeing if the person they're shooting at is actually holding a weapon of any sort, is holding a toy, is freaking willing to simply drop it. No, for some it's 'shoot first and don't bother asking any questions later, because you killed them'. And then people turn around and say 'Oh, that's totally justified!'

In what insane, idiotic world, is it acceptable to shoot someone simply because you're afraid? Because you imagine they 'might' be 'reaching for their waistband', 'might' have a real gun, instead of a toy they just picked up off some shelves?

Saying that cops who do these sorts of things should face actual punishment for simply acting thoughtlessly, out of fear, and killing people who were absolutely no danger is not 'cop hatred'. It's the absolute least we should demand when agents of the state who are empowered to hold the power of life and death over the rest of us, kill someone who turns out NOT to have been any real threat. When they shoot someone carrying a toy, carrying an unloaded weapon, hell, not even carrying anything other than a cell phone or nothing at all.

If you think you're magically immune to being gunned down because of the colour of your skin, think again. You're a lot less likely to be killed by somebody who shoots out of fear, but you're not immune. So yeah, there should be a damn high bar on allowing police to simply shoot people down, and when it turns out they shot someone that there was absolutely no need to shoot, they should face penalties.

And that's not 'hate'.

[JEFF9K]

22. I, too, am opposed to police brutality ...

also some of their bad policies and stupidity. What I don't like is the blind condemnation of them and the refusal to give them the benefit of the doubt ever, which seems to be the majority attitude at this site.

[NaturalHigh]

44. +1

[Anansi1171]

85. I disagree that even on this site the majority blindly condemns cops.

Most go out of there way to qualify their support of sound policing.

No, a great number on this site do not support criminalized marijuana, racial profiling, stop and frisk, asset forfeiture and mass incarceration.

Law enforcement was on the wrong side of civil rights. They should protect and serve the people, property and freedom of all society, not simply well-heeled whites and their interests.

AND I believe a reactionary police for politicized and with animosity towards blacks is primed to help the right steal elections. Seriously!

Having "kicked doors" I do know about the stresses and pressures AND the comraderie that helps foster the Blue Line. Police are human and have their stories, I get it.

But please, what about the racism in cop culture? What about the blind eye to mistakes AND outright abuse. Poll on that!

[JEFF9K]

96. Racism in cop culture SHOULD be eliminated.

I think progress is being made.

[treestar]

94. +1000000

[Downwinder]

4. How about none of the above?

Are antiwar protesters anti-soldier?

[JEFF9K]

17. I expected lots of NONE OF THE ABOVE responses ...

but I see there is a nice range.

As for anti-war protesters (at least those protesting the Viet Nam War), lots of them WERE anti-soldier. I've heard stories of returning soldiers getting taunted and spit on.

[Comrade Grumpy]

20. You are a walking right-wing meme machine. n/t

[JEFF9K]

24. I agree with the right wing on almost nothing.

You think true Democrats unthinkingly and unfailingly jump on every bandwagon?

[Comrade Grumpy]

27. Let's see. In this thread alone, you've got liberals hating police and spitting on Vietnam soldiers.

I'm just waiting for you to drop the welfare Cadillac meme.

[JEFF9K]

74. I'm just stating facts.

If you think facts are important, we are on the same side.

[BlindTiresias]

81. Except the "facts" you state

Are simply right wing memes, so...

[JEFF9K]

97. Facts are facts.

I believe in facts and fact-based opinions. I have no problem with opposing opinions that are fact-based.

[HERVEPA]

32. If you'd do a little research, you'd find that was buillshit. Nice try though.

[JEFF9K]

99. Nothing I said was untrue.

I stated my observations and asked questions.

[Downwinder]

42. I have heard that, too.

All I can say is that never happened to me.

I served and I am anti-war.

I have MS but pot does not help me. If there is one person out there with MS that it helps I am for legalization.

I have had Police try to set me up for a clean shoot to intimidate me for seeing something that I was not supposed to see. I have been arrested and spent 3 days in jail without medication because I had MS. I walk because I would not be safe driving and have been repeatedly stopped and ID'ed because pedestrians are "suspicious." I have found some Police to be dishonest and bullies, I have also found some to be very professional and courteous. I am not anti-police but I am for Police accountability and professionalism. A gun should be a last resort after all other methods have failed. There is no question in my mind that if I were black I would be dead by now. Because of my white privilege I have been able to fight back. This is not right. I do not want to lose my privilege, I want ALL to have the same privilege.

[G_j]

78. bullshit

sorry, we were NOT anti-soldier, they were our brothers and friends. I was there.

[JEFF9K]

100. If you were "there" you were a soldier, no?

I wouldn't expect you to be anti-soldier. I'm talking about the ones who didn't serve.

[bravenak]

5. I support an end to the drug war that disproportionally incarcerates MY people.

I am against police violence.

[Alittleliberal]

6. I'm for legalization of all drugs

If someone commits another crime on drugs then they should be charged with a crime but we should not be legislating morality.

I don't hate cops. I think it's dangerous that they have so much power and they there is very little we can do if they decide to break the law. I don't like that the profession attracts aggressive bullies. I understand the need for law enforcement but also understanding that due to the unjust war on drugs, the war on terror and institutional racism our police are out of control.

[alcibiades_mystery]

7. Ay yay yay

[on point]

8. I'll go with 2. I think the war on drugs has harmed and corrupted the police. They are victims too.

It has militarized them, it has made the no knock warrant rampant, far beyond any real need, and killed many innocents.

[Warren Stupidity]

9. Legalization would reduce violent crimes.

I don't do any drugs. I support legalization of all drugs. Police violence is a serious problem.

Do you use alcohol? Tobacco?

[Runningdawg]

10. 2nd choice

I support legalization and I support LEO when they do their jobs correctly.

[Comrade Grumpy]

12. Using illegal drugs has given many white people the opportunity to be treated like black people.

On edit: I used "treated like n*ggers" in the original to try to provide a sense of apparent police hostility toward African-Americans, but I don't trust DU juries. So I changed it.

I mean they get some sense of what it is to be a member of an oppressed group confronted with the power of the state. Drug users are thoroughly and routinely demonized and stigmatized.

In that sense, it's a learning experience for them. And yes, it fosters dislike of the police. Of course, police say "we don't make the law; we only enforce it," but they do so with such gusto.

[Alittleliberal]

15. Some drug users

We don't demonize all of them.

[RandiFan1290]

13. I hate racist trolls on DU

Venn that!

[giftedgirl77]

21. Alert Results

On Thu Dec 25, 2014, 02:25 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

I hate racist trolls on DU
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6003748

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

There is no reason to call me a "racist troll." It's insulting, inaccurate, and gratuitous.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Dec 25, 2014, 02:41 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: See a troll say a troll.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: There's no need to imply that a poster is either racist or a troll to express your disagreement.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I agree that the poster seems to be calling the OP a racist troll, which is uncalled for. 
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[HERVEPA]

33. Good call jurors.

[giftedgirl77]

35. Yes indeed....

Thankfully, sometimes this place can be rational.

[HERVEPA]

38. Yep. Sometimes.

[tenderfoot]

60. Yes!

[JEFF9K]

25. How is that relevant to this thread?

[JEFF9K]

101. Every single person I knew that hated the cops ...

and was on drugs was WHITE, for God's sake!

Crying "wolf" with racism certainly doesn't help anyone's cause.

[Major Nikon]

16. I don't agree with any of your statements

I'm not into illicit drugs, but I support legalization. I neither hate or support the police (other than by my tax dollars) at least no more so than any other worker.

Legal drugs manage to kill a shitload of people, so a drug's legal status doesn't seem to have much to do with how lethal they are, other than to insure that more people will inevitably die from them both from the consequences of their use and the associated effects of their illicit trade. The only question is how many more will continue to die until sensible reform happens.

[TeamPooka]

18. Prohibition is a failed public policy. nt

[JEFF9K]

26. Prohibition of ALCOHOL was a failed conservative policy.

[Comrade Grumpy]

30. Are you going to argue that drug prohibition is a successful public policy?

I'd be interested in seeing that argument.

[JEFF9K]

65. It limits drug usage.

Are you going to argue that it DOESN'T?

[Comrade Grumpy]

70. There's research saying drug policy has little impact on drug use rates.

There is this, for example:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1448346/

The Limited Relevance of Drug Policy: Cannabis in Amsterdam and in San Francisco
Craig Reinarman, PhD, Peter D. A. Cohen, PhD, and Hendrien L. Kaal, PhD
Author information ► Article notes ► Copyright and License information ►

Abstract
Objectives. We tested the premise that punishment for cannabis use deters use and thereby benefits public health.

Methods. We compared representative samples of experienced cannabis users in similar cities with opposing cannabis policies—Amsterdam, the Netherlands (decriminalization), and San Francisco, Calif (criminalization). We compared age at onset, regular and maximum use, frequency and quantity of use over time, intensity and duration of intoxication, career use patterns, and other drug use.

Results. With the exception of higher drug use in San Francisco, we found strong similarities across both cities. We found no evidence to support claims that criminalization reduces use or that decriminalization increases use.

Conclusions. Drug policies may have less impact on cannabis use than is currently thought.

-------

Also, it appears that drug prohibition did not stop your relatives from using drugs.

[Major Nikon]

34. Prohibition of drugs happened around the same time with the same failed results

The difference was one was repealed while the other doubled down for even more failure.

The policy was by no stretch of the imagination conservative. Cocaine and other drugs were available OTC prior to the Harrison Narcotics Act.

The difference between alcohol and other drugs is that racist lies were used to promote the prohibition.

Hamilton Wright, a doctor and State Department official who represented the United States at the International Opium Commission in Shanghai in 1909, and who was probably more influential than anyone else in the government on drug policy , reported the following in 1910: "The use of cocaine by the negroes of the South is one of the most elusive and troublesome questions which confront the enforcement of the law in most of the Southern states" (1910:49). He went on that the drug "is often the direct incentive to the crime of rape by the negroes of the South and other sections of the country" (1910:50).

https://libcom.org/library/2-blacks-cocaine-opium-1905-1920

[JEFF9K]

66. You think that things would be better ...

if all drugs had been legal for all those years?

[Major Nikon]

73. Things were certainly better when alcohol was legalized

What makes you think it would be any different for drugs? Imagine no more drug crime, no more taxpayer funded enforcement of drug crime, and no more taxpayer funded warehousing of drug criminals. Imagine people's lives not ruined for something that never should have been a crime to begin with. Imagine a population which has an alternative to alcohol which is known to cause aggression, hard physical addiction, and serious health consequences.

So to answer your question. Yes I do think things would be better and not just a little.

[Comrade Grumpy]

76. Yes. Here's why:

You have to think about harm to both individuals and society.

If all drugs were legal, we would assume there would be some higher level of use (at least at first) then currently. That would result in an increase in the harms associated with drug use--addiction, overdose deaths, intoxication, etc. (But, as I posted above, the assumption that drug use, and the harms associated with it, would increase, is not supported by much evidence.)

But if drugs were legal, we would get rid of the harms associated not with drug use in itself, but with those caused or exacerbated by drug prohibition. No murderous Mexican drug cartels, no prohibition-related gangbanger violence on our street corners, no heavy-handed drug war policing that leads to all kinds of undesirable consequences: arresting and imprisoning millions of people (more than a million a year for decades) who didn't do anything to anybody, militarized no-knock SWAT drug raids that kill cops as well as drug users, no highway profiling and policing for profit, etc.

And some of the harms associated with drug use under prohibition would be ameliorated. People would know what drugs they're taking and how strong they are. That means fewer overdoses. Money not wasted on prohibition enforcement could be used to provide treatment for those who really need it. People could get clean needles and not share them and spread disease.

How's that for a start?

[hunter]

104. Yep. Criminilizing drugs does more damage than the drugs themselves.

[ohheckyeah]

39. Alcohol IS a drug. The war on drugs

(other than alcohol) is a failed policy.

[JEFF9K]

68. We all know that alcohol is a drug ...

also coffee.

You can't say for sure that something is a failed policy unless you know what the results would be WITHOUT the policy.

[ohheckyeah]

87. Yes we can - it's called history. n/t

[Warren Stupidity]

46. I have two friends who died from using the drug alcohol.

Why do you hate cops?

[surrealAmerican]

19. I'm not "into drugs", but support their legalization.

Drug laws have been one of the main factors that pit large numbers of otherwise law-abiding citizens and police against each other. It's a public health issue, and ought to be treated as such - not as a legal issue.

I support the police if they follow the law. If not, they need to be held as accountable as a private citizen would be.

[Trillo]

23. You probably mean "illegal drugs"

Lots of Americans are all for drugs. Lots more at the search engine.

But, I know you probably meant illegal drugs. Curious that some drugs are legal, while others illegal. Someone's probably making a boatload of money on the legal ones, and others even more on the illegal ones.

[Warren Stupidity]

47. Every police force in the nation has a financial interest in prohibition.

It is a sick fucking mess. One of many we have crafted into our society.

[Scootaloo]

28. Funny thing about straw men is that they're usually brainless.

[rbrnmw]

29. I don't hate police

I hate police brutality I also hate the war on drugs and how it further oppresses the AA community.

I also hate RW memes

[Comrade Grumpy]

31. Don't forget Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (LEAP).

www.leap.cc

Maybe they're self-hating cops? I dunno.

[eridani]

57. The majority are retired cops, finally free to speak out

Though at a recent LEAP presentation, the presenters said that more active duty cops are speaking up now.

[Live and Learn]

61. +1 nt

[onecaliberal]

36. I don't do drugs but am definitely

For legalization. There are lots of city and state governments who could greatly benefit from increased tax revenue. I'm also not opposed to the police, I am however, opposed to the racist brutality we see daily. I am opposed to men being shot dead for little or no reason and curiously all reportedly reaching for their waistbands.

[tularetom]

37. I'm not into drugs, I don't "hate" cops, and I support legalization 100%

On the other hand, if you fuck yourself up through your use of drugs, legal or illegal, I don't think I should be asked to repair the damage you did to yourself.

[TransitJohn]

40. I don't see 'hatred of law enforcement' on DU

I see hatred of criminals wearing law enforcement uniforms. Pretty clear.

[NaturalHigh]

45. What about posters who say...

"there are no good cops"? Doesn't that qualify as hatred of law enforcement?

[Warren Stupidity]

48. It is hyperbole. They probably don't exclude the possibility that a good cop exists.

But almost all of us, even us white people, have had our run in with a cop who was simply being an authoritarian asshole.

[NaturalHigh]

50. Actually, one verified bluntly to me that he meant exactly that.

As for the rest of your post, yes, I agree. We've all had run-ins with cops who are assholes.

[TransitJohn]

62. No, your conflation of an opionion with 'hatred' notwithstanding. eom

n/t

[JEFF9K]

69. Read all the threads.

A strong majority at this site express unconditional hatred for cops.

[treestar]

95. there is plenty of it

I've run into some who actually said there should be no cops. And that they should not be able to defend themselves as they "signed up" for the danger and should expect to be killed. Reference to them as "pigs." They are never right - even if a gun is pointed at the it is staged and they place them at the scene. They all go to work each time wanting to beat people up.

[mike_c]

41. I'm the stereotype you're seeking....

I've used drugs recreationally since I was 15 (nearly 45 years), live in Northern California's emerald triangle, have always believed that recreational drugs need not interfere with a successful and enjoyable life (and I have the example of my own life to cite in support of that premise), and have never had much use for authoritarians, especially cops, whom I still refer to as "pigs" in the parlance of my youth. Ding ding ding! I win!

[Warren Stupidity]

49. You don't exist. You died in rehab from a pot overdose.

Prove me wrong.

[Alittleliberal]

53. This one time I injected 6 whole marijuanas

I died twice.

[bravenak]

56. I was there.

[NaturalHigh]

43. I support drug legalization & I support the police.

Several of my friends are police officers. I've never really discussed drug legalization with them.

[Savannahmann]

51. I'm for legalization, and against police lies and abuses.

Now, legalization of Marijuana for me would be meaningless. I'm allergic to it, and nothing could be so good as to cause me to risk days in ICU for the chance to enjoy it. Yet, I am in favor of legalization because I believe that the laws are wrong.

Now, to the Police part of the question. I take some things, and I hold them sacred. The way some people hold their wedding vows, or their children, or their parents. I hold ideals sacred in my heart and mind. One of those ideals is truth. If I say something happened, and I was there. It happened, and I was there. If I say it did not happen, well you get the point. I tell the truth when I say I am, and will.

My proposals to reform the police in the past have been as follows. First, polygraph testing every six months. Ask the cops a few simple questions. Have you abused anyone in the last six months. Have you seen anyone abused. Have you lied on your reports or in testimony, have you seen anyone lie. If you can't pass that test, you're not going to jail in my proposals. But you don't wear your badge and gun out of the test.

Second, body cameras on the cops. One of my interests is aviation, and finding out what happened and why it happened depends on information. More is better obviously. The Flight Data recorder and the voice recorder make it possible to reconstruct the events leading up to the accident as accurately as possible. It allows us to find out what happened, and what we can do to prevent it from happening again. I made a post suggesting this just a couple days ago for police.

We are told there are only a few bad apples, but that doesn't stand the test of even basic logic much less any other standard. Those bad apples do not operate in a vacuum. They have co-workers, fellow officers who write reports covering the misdeeds of those bad apples. If the police really were an organization dedicated to weeding out those bad cops, then the bad cops would be terrified of acting out for fear of exposure. Imagine a prospective bank robber who sees a half dozen cops standing around in the bank. He would be terrified of acting because he would be caught, or killed in seconds. The bad cops would be similarly fearful, but they aren't. They plant evidence, they lie, they fabricate confessions. No one says that none of that happened, they stand and nod their heads, supposedly in fear of retribution by the bad cops. So we are at least agreed that the bad cops are the majority in that scenario, because if they weren't, then they would be fearful of retribution.

We must break the cycle of the thin blue li(n)e. We must do so, because it is tearing our society apart. At one time, we might have been able to get the ball rolling by making small changes, but now, it is going to take major changes to even get the ball slowed down from the direction it is headed in.

So I am no fan of the police. Because I've seen their abuses, and it sickens me. The abuses happen so often as that it is "normal", and that is unacceptable. An example of that if you like.

Pepper spray was marketed as a less than lethal means of preventing an attack. The pain is so excruciating that the attacker would seek escape, instead of harming someone else. If a person is combative during an arrest, the police could use it to distract the person, and then take them into custody. It was never marketed as a punitive measure. We would not have allowed it to be produced and used if we were told that people would be sprayed with this chemical in punishment of some perceived slight. Yet, it is used as punishment.

This happened in 2012. It wasn't during the Bush years, so we can't blame Republicans. It didn't happen in some redneck haven in the South. It happened in Maine, one of the strongholds of Democratic Politics. So we have no one to blame but ourselves as Democrats.

The man was strapped to a chair, and sprayed with the Pepper spray. He was begging for forgiveness for his transgression, and promising to never do it again, and they didn't care. They wanted him to suffer. That is the dictionary definition of cruel and unusual punishment. If it is a State Prison, and I was the Governor, I would have pardoned the man ten minutes after viewing that abuse.

The system is completely broken. If we are to salvage any semblance of it, we must start with major changes now. If we don't, the reputation, the position of Police will become one of absolute disgust to a vast majority of our people, and chaos would reign. I don't want that, but we have to stop it now. We can no longer give the police the benefit of the doubt. We must hold them accountable for such barbarities. Because if we're going to allow pain to be given as a punishment by our judicial system, where do we stop? Public floggings? Do we bring back pillaries?

So yes, I am pro legalization, and yes I hate the actions of the police, and thus the police themselves. But I am not involved in any way with the drug culture. So what does this do to your theory or observations now?

[Live and Learn]

92. Excellent post.

I am also bothered by the fact that officers are allowed to lie to, curse and denigrate the public. Why should anyone trust them?

[Aerows]

52. I support the police.

I couldn't tell the difference between a pot plant and a potted plant. I support the legalization of drugs because it seems absolutely dumb to me to make growing a plant illegal, yet pharmaceutical companies are free to charge exorbitant sums for dubious products and enjoy little to no liability.

I think we can all agree that people shouldn't have access to dangerous drugs - the problem is that far too many people disagree with what is actually a dangerous drug. How is something grown in a garden somehow more dangerous than some medications that desperately ill people rely upon for their quality of life?

It has NEVER been about public safety anymore than Prohibition was about public safety. It's about profit and profiteering. You have a handful of sanctimonious folk that think that somehow making a certain substance illegal will limit the availability of that substance, but the vast majority? They slather at the bit because it is a multi-trillion dollar industry with money obtained excise free in most cases and employs tens of thousands of people in the US alone.

[tabbycat31]

83. I've had nice cops when I've been pulled over

The first time I got pulled over (I had just turned 20) I was out of state and it was late. I was having problems navigating a traffic circle, and the cop directed me towards the interstate instead of giving me a ticket.

Being nice to them goes a long way.

(I'm a white female if that matters).

[Ramses]

55. i support most drug legalization

And i hate police brutality and police murdering citizens. Where do i fit in?

[99Forever]

58. How about a little nuance? n/t

[Live and Learn]

59. So our only options are to hate police or support them? Meh. nt

[JEFF9K]

71. I'm guessing that you are in the camp ...

that generally supports the police, but condemns bad policing. That's the same camp I'm in.

[aikoaiko]

63. I support legalization of most drugs and I support police.

[sabrina 1]

64. I'm not into drugs and I don't hate 'police'. I am opposed to the failed right wing 'War

on Drugs' which has nothing to do with ending drug use. And mostly because it has stolen away many of our Constitutional Rights. It has created powerful, criminal and brutal cartels that make the Mafia look like amateurs. Hundreds of thousands of murders have resulted from these laws. And untold numbers of lives destroyed.

Even one of the main arbiters of the Drug War has now changed HIS mind stating he never foresaw the threat to our democracy. Edwin Meese now works with the ACLU to fight the 'War on Drugs'.

I want police I can trust. I am not against a good, strong civilian police force.

I AM against POLICE BRUTALITY and CORRUPTION and the MILITARIZATION of our Civilian police.

I think you fail to understand this issue.

[bemildred]

67. I know people in the MMJ business who oppose legalization AND hate cops. nt

[JEFF9K]

72. Not sure what the MMJ business is ...

but why do they hate cops?

[bemildred]

86. Medical Marijuana.

They hate cops because the cops take their crops and money and stuff through "civil asset forfeiture". They don't mind being busted, they have lawyers, but they don't like the theft without legal process.

And they hate legalization because it will put them out of business, people growing their own is already very common. If it's legal and people can grow, the price will drop a lot.

That would fall in one of your categories, in any case.

I don't care about cops, I just don't want to be around them.

And I favor legalization because I oppose the nanny state in all its forms.

[True Blue Door]

75. I support police who are intelligent, decent, responsible, and professional.

If those four criteria are too much to demand of a cop, then they have no business being a cop - or at least no business interacting with the public: If you can't fire someone who regularly violates that standard, put them on a desk in a poorly-lit basement, instead of doing that to whistleblowers who dare to enforce the law on fellow officers.

Cops tend to oppose drug legalization because in their experience drugs make people's behavior less predictable, which makes their job more complicated. I don't agree that that's a legitimate reason to destroy lives, throw millions of people in prison, cause untold numbers of murders and international chaos, and waste billions of dollars every year, but I see phenomenologically why police have a problem with the idea.

And people who support drug legalization are more wary of the police because they're aware that police are the instrument of oppression through which Order is treated as more important than freedom or even common decency. Police perhaps are unfairly blamed for the draconian sentences that follow their arrests, and are more fairly blamed for the radically militarized tactics they adopt in drug cases in response to the very small number of instances where truly dangerous individuals or groups are involved.

[hifiguy]

77. I support legalization

and I view every cop as a potential goon until they prove otherwise by acting in a polite and professional manner. I am middle aged and white and I don't trust cops, ANY cops, any farther than I can throw a truck.

[Dont call me Shirley]

79. I support well regulated drug legalization and a well regulated honest police force.

[ProfessorGAC]

80. Terribly Loaded Question

I won't answer given those choices.

Had you asked, "I support drug legalization, and i question the tactics and motives of the police community." i would have answered to that.

Hate is the wrong choice of words.

[Anansi1171]

82. Saw this post yesterday and was honestly shocked.

Its so baited and obtuse.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

84. I believe any citizen should be able to shoot dope smokers.

I think we should have to bow to cops as they pass by.
And I think liberals should have their saliva glands surgically removed so they can't spit on the troops.

[petronius]

88. I define "support the police" to include that LE needs to be held to a very

high standard of conduct, and failures to live up to that standard must be called out and corrected--with that distinction, I'd go with choice #2...

[Initech]

89. I am 150% against prison privitization.

Which itself is a direct byproduct of the War on Drugs. It does zero good to lock people up for profit. All it does is create a system of corrupted, easily bribed judges, police who arrest to fill quotas, and prisons who keep the system populated for cheap labor. It's a really shitty system that needs to be changed. The petty offenders are locked away while the real criminals (Koch Bros, Waltons) walk free.

Oh and the for profit prisons get away with treating prisoners like shit because we live in a country that has no government oversight or accountability.

[Live and Learn]

91. +1 nt

[JonLP24]

90. I can see hatred of cops from people into illegal drugs

They have a front row seat to the drug war and see an up-front view of police abuses, overloading the court docket, adding to overcrowding jails & prisons. Not to mention questionable terry stops & probable cause.

[treestar]

93. I support drug legalization and the police

I'm not into drugs. But prohibition does not seem to be working. Getting the criminal element out of drugs would mean we'd require less police and fewer courts. Treat addiction as illness and not crime.

[hunter]

103. The brutal and often racist and steroid addled drug warrior cops can all go to hell.

What "good cops" there are need to expel these rat bastards from their ranks. Many police and sheriffs departments across the nation are entirely rotten and need to be shut down and replaced. Maybe we can retrain the bad cops to do something beneficial, things like sorting trash recovered from landfills, jobs where they can be carefully supervised and not harm the rest of us.

The drug war itself needs to end, with any drug less dangerous than cigarettes or alcohol legalized, and more dangerous drugs decriminalized.

Instead of drug warrior cops we need free clinics where addicts can go to kick their habits, or at least get safe drugs so they don't have to sell their bodies or steal stuff to support their habits.

[NewDeal_Dem]

105. cigarettes are legal but the number of smokers has been declining for years. just make it declasse

to smoke, drink, take drugs etc.

I don't use drugs or drink, but I'm for legalization more or less. reasons:

1. legalizing it makes less illegal profit to be used by covert actors
2. legalizing it saves money on prisons, etc.
3. legalizing = fewer ruined lives from years in prison among criminals
4. legalizing = easier to get off drugs when desired because of things like no criminal record, etc.
5. etc.

[LordGlenconner]

106. Well this went over like a fart in church

And for good reason.

Sorry about your family, but I'm going to need a little more clarification on what "killed by drugs" means to you.

[Calista241]

107. I personally wouldn't use drugs, but support legalization of most drugs.

Shit like meth needs to stay banned IMO. But marijuana and some other drugs should be treated much like alcohol in my opinion.

I think it's more likely for the government to de-criminalize drugs before we go full the legalization route though. Can you imagine if having a joint in your ash trey doesn't get you tossed in jail? Having a bong doesn't earn you a one way ticket to never having a good job?