Lots of newbies showing up to lecture about cops and shootings.

[Are_grits_groceries]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by EarlG (a host of the General Discussion forum).

Many seem to be here to PROVE that some act was justified and to proclaim that their posts are signs of sanity.
Guess what? I don't need lectures. I try to judge each response on its own merits. If I disagree with you I am not a nitwit. Your protestations to the contrary don't help or prove anything.

Go to Freeperville or back under the bridge from whence you came.

[Savannahmann]

1. I kind of wish I didn't agree with you.

It's infuriating to think that the authoritarian set are trying to manipulate us with such blunt instruments.

[Are_grits_groceries]

2. Why do you kind of wish you didn't agree with me?

Just curious?

[Savannahmann]

5. I guess I should have explained it in the reply.

I'd like to think that we can discuss our honest opinions here, and really anywhere on the web. I don't like to be manipulated, and I don't like to be thought of as an imbecile who could be so easily swayed. Yet, that is the obvious conclusion that we must reach.

I wish I could say that everyone here was giving their heartfelt and honestly held opinions. Conclusions reached by careful thought on an issue. But as is obvious, there are a few here who have showed up out of nowhere and all have the same basic meme. The cops are people who are doing a great job and don't have any choice in the matter when they use force. Even if one or two incidents do happen with excessive force, it's unfair for us to use that to blame the entire group.

I'm sure I'm not explaining it well now. Please believe it isn't personal, it's reluctant agreement that the authoritarian set think us so malleable that they can infiltrate and modify our opinion. As I mentioned, it's a blunt instrument. It's as subtle as a brick to the head.

It's part of the ongoing meme that things just don't happen that way, and we know they are. Torture, it's been in the news, and we hear how President Obama has totally ended it. OK, so we're no longer water boarding people in the CIA prisons. We've told the military to stop using pain as a means of interrogation. Yet, we still use pain in punitive measures in our prisons today.

I've posted this video a couple times recently to prove that torture is happening, today, this week, this month in our prisons and jails.

There can be only one conclusion from those events. It was torture. Yet, many run around swearing that this isn't happening because the President said it wasn't. Why, the police are good people who would never do anything like that. Then when it gets exposed, the answer they give can be summarized to the answer given by President Nixon. If the Police do it, it's automatically legal.

I wish I didn't agree with you because if the infiltrators are here, that means the Police despite the rhetoric to the protesters about evaluating and reforming, the usual lies, they have no intention of even considering any reforms. Instead they hope to sew division among the most vocal supporters, and swear that it's just not happening like that.

A couple days ago, I posted an OP asking why we didn't apply the same principles to Police use of force incidents as we do to aircraft accidents. The purpose of the aircraft accident investigation is to determine what happened, why it happened, and what changes, if any, are needed. Imagine that process applied to Tamir Rice. The first obvious conclusion is that the police started the encounter from too close. It did not give them adequate time to evaluate the situation properly and determine the appropriate course of action. They were point blank, the range that you couldn't miss with a weapon if Stevie Wonder was the one shooting.

Was this a deficiency of their training? Do we need to modify the training for police officers to try and make sure that this never happens again? Was it a character defect in the officer? Was it in violation of the training and standards? Or is this a policy that needs to be addressed? We will never get answers to those questions, and it will happen, again, and again. Instead of heeding the public demands for reform and review of policies, we get infiltrators here to want to try and tell us it isn't happening, not the way we think it is.

It's happening.

It's happening all over the nation. It happens every day to one of our citizens. It will almost certainly happen to someone today.

So the reason I wish I didn't agree with you is because it saddens me to think that there are people out there who believe that this crap is acceptable, or even necessary. I wish I didn't agree with you because the presence of those infiltrators means it will happen tomorrow, and next week, and next month, next year, and probably next decade. More people beaten, abused, tortured, and more civil rights eroded to the point that we just can't recognize them anymore. And we'll never get them back.

I probably haven't explained it well enough here, but I hope you understand. It's not personal against you by any stretch of the imagination. It's disgust, and discouragement, of the situation. If you believe nothing else, please believe that I meant no slight against you personally.

[Are_grits_groceries]

7. I believe you.

Thanks for explaining and it does make sense. I didn't think I had crossed swords with you, but who knows?

[marble falls]

9. I think what you are trying to say is: its hard to believe that there others who do not argue .....

with intellectual honesty. I am shocked or rather was shocked by the efforts used by others to to make their reactive hate sound polite and reasonable and thought out.

It sounds like we've both had our eyes opened for us by the reality that DU is an island and we are under siege.

[Boreal]

12. Totalitarian police state

And anyone who denies it is a fucking liar. Just because not every single cop in Amerika is total sadist and killer, we're told its just a few apples. Bullshit. I don't know the percentages but I know there are shitloads of psychotic cops in this country because I have been watching the videos and reading the articles FOR YEARS. Innocent black, white, hispanic, Indian, old people, little kids, people minding their own business in their own homes - you name it - have been terrorized, beaten and murdered by cops all across this country. And, dogs. Thousands of beloved dogs - just because these fuckers hate dogs and murder them with nary any outcry.

I'm scared of cops. I used to take my dogs (passed away now) for rides in the car all the time. The dogs I have now only go to the vet because I am so afraid that if for any reason I were to get pulled over some roided up sadist mutherfucker would shoot them for shits and giggles.

This country is run by a CULT. That cult controls the entire establishment - both parties included. Look at how Democrats, led by Steny Hoyer, gave a standing ovation for the murder of Miriam Carey. That was within hours of her murder. It's not just Republicans. We see that here. The cult protects itself and loves the violence because it keeps us in line and afraid. It's left wing or right wing. It's simply totalitarian. History shows that it doesn't matter if it's Bolsheviks, the Stasi, the Nazis, or some tin pot dictator's goons. Violence is used by all kinds of political ideologies and regimes and we are RIGHT THERE.

One of the Sandy Hook memes was "only police and military should be armed". That is TOTALLY contrary a free society. We aren't a free society. We're a mind controlled society that has been and is being conditioned through fear while we're told how free we are. YooEssAy!

That video of that kid strapped down and tortured made me throw up - literally.

I'm also sick of so many people who ONLY say black people are targets of cops. That's a lie (as your videos show). Kelly Thomas wasn't black. The homeless guy in New Mexico wasn't black. The man whose home was broken into by an Arizona SWAT team wasn't black. The women who had her face smashed into a cement bench in a holding cell wasn't black. The handcuffed woman who was beaten to a pulp and left lying in a pool of blood wasn't black. The Seattle wood carving artist wasn't black. The man who police when his wife and daughter were in a an argument in the grocery store parking lot wasn't black. The Navy guy at the Las Vegas Sam's Club wasn't black. I could go on and on and, yes, I've watched a ton of videos where the victims WERE black but this is not a race issue, it's a police state issue and we are ALL in danger and the "enemy". I firmly believe those who constantly make it a race issue only are trying to divert from the police state issue.

[Savannahmann]

17. There was a movie called Fletch Lives.

In it a Reporter played by Chevy Chase goes down to the old South from Los Angeles. He goes to inherit his Aunt's estate. He meets the caretaker, a man who says he's always worked in the house, and his family worked in the house before him. Fletch asks. "Have you ever heard of the Emancipation Proclamation?" The man says. "No, it didn't get too much press here about."

I have to imagine that that conversation takes place from time to time with our police and especially the guards who sprayed that man down with Pepper spray to punish him. "Have you ever heard of the Eight Amendment?" They look confused. "No, they didn't mention that during training."

Pepper Spray was marketed as a means of stopping an attack. If someone was about to assault you, you could defend yourself by spraying this product. If a crowd was unruly and rioting, it could be dispersed with the pepper spray. It was intended to be a less than lethal means of using force. It was not marketed, nor do I believe it was intended to be used in a punitive manner. If it had been marketed as a way to make them pay, I think it would have been banned long before now. The Guards know they can't tie a guy up and flog him with a cat o nine tails. They know they aren't allowed to tie the guy down and beat him with a phone book, rubber hose, or whatever. But they want us to believe they don't know why those rules are in place. Oh, it was that we weren't supposed to cause harm in violation of cruel and unusual punishment? I thought it was that it could cause permanent harm. My bad. So if we can't tie the guy down and pepper spray him, can we tie him down and use our tasers? How about a car battery and some jumper cables?

Honestly, if I was the Governor of the state that happened in, or if it was a Federal facility and I was the President, I'd commute his sentence on the spot. Time served, you've already been punished far more than society intended. Feel free to sue and have your lawyer call me as a witness if you like. When people start to complain, tell them that the answer they seek is in the eighth amendment. Read that and get back to me.

[MrMickeysMom]

3. More than likely, it's Freeperville, AGG...

Here…. let's wave bye to them together…

[Are_grits_groceries]

8. Ok!

.......

[Enthusiast]

4. It's their job. You would want to deprive someone of gainful employment, would you?

[HughBeaumont]

6. It's bad enough I have to go on Facebook . ...

... . to deal with "TEH NI$$ER DESREVED IT" crowd. I don't have to come here for Disgustionist-level horseshit.

[rbrnmw]

10. We need some roach spray for sure

we are being invested

[RoccoR5955]

11. This place has been infiltrated as long as I have been here

It seems that as soon as the establishment finds out that some group has an opposing view to their authority, they infiltrate.
I have seen this since the COINTELPRO days of the 60s and 70s, whereby every anti-war, every environmental group that I was part of had been infiltrated by police, or other folks, posing as activists.
I don't see it ending any time soon.

[Boreal]

14. Yep

There are armies of paid posters and even volunteers, be they .gov, shilling for big pharma, Hasbara, NATO, HBGary sock puppets, provocateurs, whatever, it's to enforce the establishment and it's various agendas. They're on every type of web forum. Lets' not forget who created the internet.

[backscatter712]

16. Yep. Just look at the Snowden flamewars here. n/t

[ileus]

13. Happens to some degree with every "event" of this nature.

[MrScorpio]

15. Thank you!

[mariawr]

18. Some believe police can't lie. Or choose to believe it. nt