Delta flight from JFK Airport delayed after Jewish passengers refuse to sit next to women

[Jesus Malverde]

A Delta Airlines flight from New York's JFK Airport to Israel was delayed by half an hour when a group of ultra-Orthodox Jewish men refused to sit next to female passengers.

Delta Flight 468, bound for Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion Airport, was reportedly held up due to several Haredi passengers refusing to to sit in their assigned seats, which were in between two women.

The delay was prolonged when the two female passengers involved reportedly refused to move to accommodate the men's request, claiming discrimination.

According to Israel Radio, the stand-off was eventually resolved when an American travelling to Israel offered to change seats.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2891081/Delta-Airlines-flight-New-York-s-JFK-Airport-delayed-ultra-Orthodox-Jewish-passengers-refuse-sit-women.html

[jberryhill]

1. If they want control over the seat next to them, they can buy another ticket

Otherwise, it's not up to them who sits there.

[riversedge]

51. sounds like a great idea.

[roody]

2. Dumbasses. Good for the women. nt

[OregonBlue]

82. Just what I thought. Good for those women. Let the mysoginists work it out for themselves.

Or take another plane.

[951-Riverside]

3. Hey man, religious freedom and all that jazz

[elleng]

4. Refuse to sell these (bad word) tickets,

or force them to resolve their seating issues BEFORE the day of the flight!

[BlueJazz]

9. Quite true. Seems like we hear of this type of nonsense on a regular basis.

[elleng]

19. Yes, more and more lately.

If their religion places restrictions on them, it really is THEIR obligation to resolve these things well before they can disrupt commerce and society. Heck, I'd BAN them from flying!

[lpbk2713]

5. "Eewww, they got cooties."

Unfuggenbelievable that adults could act that way, regardless of their convictions.

[whathehell]

11. Really..One can only imagine how they feel about their wives and daughters.

[2naSalit]

16. Perhaps

their attitude will result in a negative birth rate for them... like Norwegian Bachelor Farmer or something?

[whathehell]

24. One can only hope,

and hope further, that their negative birthrate evolves from women wanting NOTHING

to do with them.

[brooklynite]

46. Actually their birthrate in Israel is going through the roof...

...which is why the secular population is losing it's political clout.

[2naSalit]

53. Sadly true

It would appear that the extremist push in all three major religions have reared their ugly heads. Now, what to do about it. .? They are threatening the lives of all other living beings with their extreme demands of our species with these wars, depletion of our habitats and refusal to look in the mirror and actually see it.

*exasperated sigh*

[2naSalit]

47. Well...

that's what I meant, that they are so undesirable (in so many ways) that they won't be able to reproduce.

[LiberalElite]

70. They don't use any birth control

and the women are raised to buy into this as they're raised to be wives and mothers. From what I've read, considering all the rules around menstruation and sex it appears to me that there's a limited time every month they can have sexual relations - and it wouldn't surprise me if it coincides with when she's most fertile. Several kids per ultra-orthodox family is normal.

[annabanana]

92. Their women may not have much of a choice..

culturally speaking

[elleng]

29. Hasn't happened,

they're 'required' to 'do it' often, as I recall.

'Sex is the woman's right, not the man's. A man has a duty to give his wife sex regularly and to ensure that sex is pleasurable for her. He is also obligated to watch for signs that his wife wants sex, and to offer it to her without her asking for it. The woman's right to sexual intercourse is referred to as onah, and it is one of a wife's three basic rights (the others are food and clothing), which a husband may not reduce. The Talmud specifies both the quantity and quality of sex that a man must give his wife. It specifies the frequency of sexual obligation based on the husband's occupation, although this obligation can be modified in the ketubah (marriage contract). A man may not take a vow to abstain from sex for an extended period of time, and may not take a journey for an extended period of time, because that would deprive his wife of sexual relations. In addition, a husband's consistent refusal to engage in sexual relations is grounds for compelling a man to divorce his wife, even if the couple has already fulfilled the halakhic obligation to procreate.'

http://www.jewfaq.org/sex.htm

[lob1]

81. Wow. So romantic I got a lump in my throat.

[HERVEPA]

56. Exactly opposite. The black hats have as many children as they can.

e.g. Check Kiryat Joel

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/21/nyregion/kiryas-joel-a-village-with-the-numbers-not-the-image-of-the-poorest-place.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[2naSalit]

58. Ugh!

Forgive me, I can't bear to look!

I see enough from where I am, within what the LDS consider their zion.

[NickB79]

69. Naa, they're like the Jewish Duggars, this group

Quiver Movement and such, popping out babies for God and all that.

[Brigid]

18. Believe it ir not,

I understand that the Hasidic Jews have a very high birth rate.

[whathehell]

22. Oh, I believe it,

although I can't imagine living in the same house, as a wife or daughter,

with someone who thinks so little of women.

[2naSalit]

50. I have seen this

in eastern states where they have large populations, the women mostly only socialize among themselves...

[whathehell]

79. In eastern states?

I'm not sure who you're talking about.

[2naSalit]

84. In the northeastern

states of the US. The majority of That particular ethnicity/religious sect that I have any experience with were there. And with regard to full disclosure, part of my ancestry includes the Orthodox Jews. I was not, thankfully, raised in that culture but am well aware of those family members who were. I have had no contact for decades.

[whathehell]

94. I understand you now..

Sounds like you lucked out in terms of being raised in a more mainstream environment. Have you had no contact

with them because they're hostile to more liberal family members or do you just feel too distant from them

because of their lifestyles?

[2naSalit]

95. Actually

I never was allowed to "know" them because of my grandfather marrying a nonJew. His father was a rabbi and he was disowned. I never met 99% of his family until he died and encountered them at his funeral which they ll attended.

In fact, though I saw these folks in the cities as a child, (different cultures weren't all that unusual as New England was quite culturally diverse), I did have a clue about many of the religions I was living amongst. The girls did not attend the public schools and were generally out of sight. I did learn about them when young though, which is why I was aware of the female isolation for the most orthodox clans or groups. Some used to yell at e on the street for not being obedient or some crap. I would just look at them like they were crazy and getting the hell away from them. Lots of enclaves up and down the coast still... try Lakehurst, NJ for example.

[tabbycat31]

98. Lakewood not Lakehurst

[2naSalit]

114. You're correct

and thank you! Been a looong time since I have been there but what I do recall is that nearly every person I saw during my brief visit were the Orthodox Jews, men that is, walking around in the locations I experienced.

[tabbycat31]

115. I live about 1/2 hour from there

And my state legislative and federal congressional district include it (fastest growing city in the state). It makes finding candidates and trying to turn the district blue VERY difficult. Some of the precincts in Lakewood vote unanimously.

[2naSalit]

116. Yikes!

I do recall lots of pine forest... pretty part of NJ for certain. I was there back in 1984, I think it was, had to make a delivery on the edge of town. I do hope that our national political scene will get straightened out, but I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen in my lifetime unless the people actually get motivated and take back our government.

[tabbycat31]

117. I don't remember anything in 1984

(I was in preschool then).

I worry about our political scene too (especially with my generation) but that's a topic for another thread.

[2naSalit]

119. yeah...

I was already in my 30s then.

I am concerned for your age cohort, I have nieces and nephew at that age, it concerns me greatly. I recently visit some of them and they started asking about recent history I was around for but was before their time. So I gave them a brief history lesson and urged them to look stuff up - with references as to where to start looking. Big eye-openers on some points for them. I do hope your generation gets a handle on what ails our nation and can actually steer us away from the brink of disaster for all living things. I think that in some cases we may have to wait for the grim reaper to show up on the doorstep of certain individuals before changes can be made.

[virgdem]

87. Very true...

my first cousin married a Hasidic Jew and she has 9 kids!

[Nevernose]

6. It's the difference between religious fanatics and religious people

Religious fanatics believe that their beliefs are special, and therefore everyone else needs to accommodate those beliefs.

And the fanaticism usually revolves around sex in some way, whether it be the crime of possessing a vagina or the crime of liking someone with the same kind of genitals. Why do some believe that God(s) care so much about other people's diddly parts?

[notadmblnd]

7. They should have been escorted off the plane

and charged with some of the same offenses that others who have disrupted flights have been charged with.

[JimDandy]

63. Yes. n/t

[AtomicKitten]

8. When your civil rights violate others' civil rights,

it's time to go back to the drawing board.

[Brigid]

10. I wouldn't have moved either.

If they're going to be that afraid of the world outside their little enclave in the Williamsburg section of Brooklyn or wherever they live, they can just stay there.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

12. What will happen if a woman touches them?

[Brigid]

17. Maybe they're instantly vaporized?

[Daemonaquila]

37. Can we test that theory?

It would be fun...

[lapislzi]

26. You're "unclean" if a menstruating woman touches you.

You need to be purified posthaste. I'm not making this up. Orthodox women sequester themselves while menstruating and immerse themselves in a ritual bath ("mikvah&quot after their cycle completes.

And, since you can't rightly inquire of total strangers whether or not they're menstruating, you have to steer clear of all women.

A friend of mine was traveling through a Hasidic area to an appointment and found herself lost. No one would speak to her when she stopped to ask directions. She had to send her (prepubescent) daughter into a shop to speak to the shopkeeper.

Yeah, I think "cooties" about covers it.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

31. They let menstruating women on airplanes?!?!

[lapislzi]

35. Horrifying, isn't it?

Sadly, it's strictly the honors system. Don't ask, don't tell.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

40. They should have to wear a big red "M"

and sit in a special M section in the back of the plane.

[lapislzi]

49. Oh, but we lie. How we lie!

You'd have to have all the women passing through a special "Menstro-Scanner 2000" that would indicate whether or not the woman was unclean. If you're polluted, it's back of the plane for you!

[A-Schwarzenegger]

55. Menstro-Scanner 2000!

I knew we could come up with a reasonable solution.

[3catwoman3]

73. Job...

...creation!!!

[A-Schwarzenegger]

93. All kinds of silver linings in this cloud.

[JimDandy]

65. Then religions need to come up with internal solutions

to external 'problems'. For example, these Jews could have developed a cleansing ritual in their religion to use after anytime they had an interaction with a woman they weren't sure was not menstruating. Simple really.

[FiveGoodMen]

78. Do they also still offer sacrifices at the end of each cycle?

I seem to remember that that's in there as well

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

113. Prominent Washington, D.C. rabbi secretly filmed women bathing: police

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/washington-rabbi-secretly-filmed-women-bathing-police-article-1.1974323


A prominent Washington, D.C. rabbi was busted Tuesday after cops discovered he had allegedly been filming women showering at his modern Orthodox synagogue in Georgetown.

Police swarmed Rabbi Barry Freundel’s O Street home Tuesday morning and spent hours investigating, removing hard drives and computers, witnesses told WTTG-TV. The 62-year-old has served as rabbi at Kesher Israel, some five blocks from his home, since 1987.

Freundel is charged with voyeurism and is expected to appear in court Wednesday.

Kesher Israel has a mikvah, a ritual bath women in Orthodox Judaism are expected to use each month, the Jewish Daily Forward reported. The facility’s mikvah has three changing rooms and the bath, used by men and women at different times, the outlet reported.

[cwydro]

39. How do they handle female TSA?

[A-Schwarzenegger]

42. If you hold your breath it closes your skin cells

and girl cooties can't get in.

[cwydro]

88. Bwa!

[dissentient]

13. Yep, I've heard that in the ultra fundamentalists synagogues, women are not allowed to be next to

the men, and have to worship separately. So this doesn't surprise me.

[Brigid]

15. Read Deborah Feldman's "Unorthodox".

It's about her upbringing in a Hasidic community. It sounds like an awfully dreary, joyless way of life to me.

[dissentient]

21. Yep, my attitude is people can believe whatever they want, as long as it doesn't

harm others. That said, it certainly is not a religion that I find appealing.

People can believe in really weird things in some of these religions. That said, they do have the freedom to do so, I wouldn't want to tell them they can't believe what they want.

[Daemonaquila]

36. Not universally.

I went to law school with a Hasidic woman. While I am sure that their community was much more liberal than many of them, or she wouldn't have even been embarking on this kind of career, she was happy, bright, articulate, and a pillar of her community. There are exceptions to every rule, I guess.

[bikebloke]

64. The Wailing Wall

In Jerusalem, the Wailing Wall is divided into a men's section and a women's section.

[LiberalElite]

66. In the synagogue ultra-orthodox women are either

on the other side of a decorative fence or upstairs in a balcony section. Ultra orthodox Jews do practice extreme gender separation.

[sakabatou]

91. I've been in one.

There's sometimes a curtain separating the two. Thank goodness our family got out of there and went to a more progressive synagogue.

[hifiguy]

14. Fuck religulous fundamentalists of all stripes.

In the ear.

With a wood chisel.

The world does not revolve around you and your fucking idiotic Iron Age superstitions.

[Ernesto]

28. Works for Me!...... nt

[FiveGoodMen]

80. I'll second that!

[sakabatou]

20. Goddamn ultra-orthodox...

[Takket]

23. did it not occur to these people that there may be women on the plane???

if you don't want to sit next to a woman, don't fly on a plane. problem solved. either that or purchase an entire row. but don't go bitching about someone sitting in their own seat that they bought fair and square.

[SamKnause]

25. As a female,

I would not move 1 inch to accommodate the ultra Orthodox Jewish 'men'.

Charter a jet.

Problem solved.

[Sunlei]

61. what if the airline offered you a huge voucher just to change seats like they will?

[SamKnause]

62. No.

[Sunlei]

72. why?

[Gormy Cuss]

71. I've never had an airline offer me a voucher just to change seats.

I've been asked to change seats many times and have overheard attendants asking others. Have you had a different experience?

[Nye Bevan]

101. Years ago a flight attendant moved me and my wife to business class,

so that a family could sit together. That, I had no problem at all with!

[arcane1]

27. Were the idiots dressed like this?

Seriously, I'm surprised they are even allowed to fly, if their rules are so picky.

[hifiguy]

32. ????

is THAT and how did that yutz ever get on a plane in the first place?

[arcane1]

38. They were flying over a cemetary at the time, and didn't want dead-person cooties.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/04/12/orthodox-jew-covers-plastic-bag-plane-remain-pure-cemetery-picture_n_3067344.html

[hifiguy]

41. I have to ask.

How many MILES was the airplane above the cemetery? Good grief, Charlie Brown......

[arcane1]

43. I wonder if the rule extends into orbit. What if they were on the Space Station?

[Ms. Toad]

99. Hmm...I wonder why a plastic bag offers more protection

from impurities than the structure of the plane?

[arcane1]

105. Congratulations! You just put more thought into it than they did!

[Daemonaquila]

30. Ridiculous that they delayed the flight.

The only proper answer is "Fine. If you don't want your seats, don't fly." Religion doesn't let a guy get a pass for racism, sexism, etc.

[TreasonousBastard]

33. The Haredin do have strict rules segregating men and women...

Their buses from Rockland county to NYC have men on one side and women on the other, with a curtain down the middle.

But, outside of their own little venues, is compromise impossible? I see how they offered to pay for seats at times, but did they ever just ask nicely? Try placing a blanket between them so they don't actually "touch"?

Claiming "discrimination" is problematic with this ancient religious rule, but it is religion making obnoxious demands outside of its own domain.

[SamKnause]

54. Is compromise impossible ??

I would not move 1 inch to accommodate these 'men'.

I don't care about their strict rules.

What they do in their homes, schools, and places of worship is their business.

They should charter a plane.

Problem solved.

[LiberalElite]

67. For them I'd say

compromise is impossible. I'm not Jewish but I read a couple of Jewish blogs and my conclusion from reading them is they will not compromise, period.

[FiveGoodMen]

83. "its own domain"

Is that like gang territory?

Occupied Palestine?

IOW, a bunch of con men telling everyone what to do should have no domain whatsoever.

[Ms. Toad]

102. It should be relatively simple.

If they are all part of the same community, keep a flight registry at the synagogue & purchase tickets together so that they can be assigned adjacent seats.

If they aren't part of the same community, it shouldn't be that hard to set up some sort of larger registry to serve the same purpose.

It might be inconvenient for them, since they would likely have to purchase tickets farther in advance to be guaranteed adjacent seats - and on some airlines they might need to pay a bit more in order to be assigned seats in advance. But problem solved without disrupting everyone's lives because they are randomly assigned a seat next to someone of a different gender.

[mn9driver]

34. This problem occurs every day. And it's not just fundamentalist Jewish men.

It's also fundamentalist Muslim men. The policy at most airlines is to try to accommodate them by getting other passengers to move around. Again, it is a common problem these days. Usually the flight leaves on time. I'll leave it to others to comment on whether it is a good idea or a bad idea for airlines to put up with this behavior.

[Boreal]

57. Bad idea nt

[JimDandy]

68. Then they should have to declare this at the time of ticket purchase

so seating arrangements can be accomodated. If not, and a female passenger doesn't want to move, then the disrupting religious person must be required to make other flight arrangements.

[DawgHouse]

75. Makes sense to me! nt

[appalachiablue]

104. If it arises will fund. Muslim and Jewish men sit together? I hope so.

[zappaman]

44. better safe than sorry

[wheniwasincongress]

45. Good for the women!

[LeftinOH]

48. If my flight was delayed, or a connection missed due to

idiotic crap like this, I'd...

...be very upset. Not sure what could be done about it. The female passengers are right to reject such a stupid request. F*ck the religious "reasons".

[HockeyMom]

52. I would move my seat

I fly to and from JFK all the time. I figure if they don't want to sit next to me, then I don't want to sit next to them either.

[Sunlei]

59. usually the airline pre-accommodates for a groups seating and food needs

[nichomachus]

60. Now compare the kid-glove treatment they got with this

http://flightclub.jalopnik.com/woman-spends-three-days-in-jail-over-seat-swap-gone-hor-1675569598

The incident happened in 2013, while 68 year-old Jean Mamakos was traveling from New York to Alaska. After changing planes in Seattle, she noticed the emergency exit row was empty, got up and moved after the entry door was already closed and secured. A flight attendant allegedly told her that she would have to pay $109 for the upgrade, because the row has extra legroom. Mamakos told CBS2 that she decided to move back to her seat after the upgrade cost was mentioned.

At this point, the story becomes a little unclear, because we don't have United's side of the story. Mamakos said a pilot made an announcement that "there is a lady who wants to get off the plane on this flight. So we have to wait." Mamakos didn't realize it was her who was being mentioned. According to Mamakos, she was surrounded by the flight attendants, who then demanded she leave the plane. Mamakos refused. Police were brought onto the plane to remove her, citing that she was trespassing - even though she had paid for a seat on the flight.

Mamakos was handcuffed and dragged off the plane, tearing her jeans in the process. Because courts were not open during the weekend, she had to spend three days in jail while her friends continued on to Alaska for their ski trip.

[Takket]

74. Sounds like they thought she was going to open the emergency exit

Wouldn't a five second discussion have cleared up the confusion???

[randys1]

76. god damn phucking RELIGION again..............shit

[Chakab]

77. Why was there any delay? They should have been thrown off of the plane immediately.

[SMC22307]

86. By female security agents, rather than their wacko religious beliefs...

be enabled by another passenger.

[Warpy]

85. Let them fly chartered planes if they think they're going to get cooties from women

Religious patriarchs should never be accommodated when doing so discriminates against the female half of the human race. Let them go to the expense of accommodating themselves.

That goes for all of them, no matter which god or holy book they blame for their viciousness toward women.

[petronius]

89. I think it's fine if the cabin crew tries to accommodate these passengers (and any other

cranky self-absorbed idiot, really), but not to the extent of delaying the flight. By the time the doors are otherwise ready to be closed, it should be sit your ass down or get off the plane...

[malaise]

90. They should have been kicked off the aircraft

Despicable behavior

[marmar]

96. Religious fundamentalism is a pox on humanity.

[Liberal_in_LA]

97. again? this happened a few months ago

[Nye Bevan]

100. "The airport police are now boarding this aircraft. Anyone who doesn't sit down will be arrested"

would have been my favored solution to this.

[Chemisse]

103. Exactly. Sit down and shut up or get off the ****ing plane!

[Blue Owl]

106. Time to dial 1-800-Oops Jew

<?>

[tblue37]

108. This same thing happened earlier this year, too! nt

[1step]

109. Imagine the reaction had they been Muslims!

Religion---all religion---is a cancer upon humanity!

[Quantess]

110. What assholes.

They're lucky they didn't get kicked off the plane.

[eridani]

111. Downladable cootie catcher!

https://downloadablecootiecatchers.wordpress.com/2011/02/13/blank-template-for-cootie-catcher/

[Warren Stupidity]

112. toss them off the plane and arrest their fucking bigotted asses.

Why is this shit accommodated?

[edhopper]

118. In New York

they have their own ambulance services so that EMS workers of the opposite sex don't try to save their lives.

Maybe it's time for their own airline.

[Jesus Malverde]

120. opposite sex and opposite race....nt

[edhopper]

121. Well there is that

too.

[JI7]

122. so this was about religion but what happened at the Kosher Grocers had nothing to do with religion