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Thu Jan 1, 2015, 12:00 AM

Putin looking pretty puny at 9 dollars a barrel. Obama gets last laugh.

"You'll recall that three or four months ago, everybody in Washington was convinced that President Putin was a genius and he had outmanoeuvred all of us and he had bullied and strategised his way into expanding Russian power," he said.

"Today, I'd sense that at least outside of Russia, maybe some people are thinking what Putin did wasn't so smart."

Mr Obama argued that sanctions had made the Russian economy vulnerable to "inevitable" disruptions in oil price which, when they came, led to "enormous difficulties".

"The big advantage we have with Russia is we've got a dynamic, vital economy, and they don't," he said. "They rely on oil. We rely on oil and iPads and movies and you name it."



http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30629200

70 replies, 4181 views

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Reply Putin looking pretty puny at 9 dollars a barrel. Obama gets last laugh. (Original post)
arely staircase Jan 2015 OP
Cha Jan 2015 #1
arely staircase Jan 2015 #4
Cha Jan 2015 #5
Tarheel_Dem Jan 2015 #60
Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #2
LineReply K
Cha Jan 2015 #3
former9thward Jan 2015 #6
Lucky Luciano Jan 2015 #12
Igel Jan 2015 #35
brush Jan 2015 #17
former9thward Jan 2015 #47
brush Jan 2015 #50
SunSeeker Jan 2015 #20
former9thward Jan 2015 #34
SunSeeker Jan 2015 #36
former9thward Jan 2015 #40
SunSeeker Jan 2015 #42
former9thward Jan 2015 #43
SunSeeker Jan 2015 #44
former9thward Jan 2015 #46
SunSeeker Jan 2015 #48
Shivering Jemmy Jan 2015 #54
former9thward Jan 2015 #55
tabasco Jan 2015 #45
Boreal Jan 2015 #66
former9thward Jan 2015 #67
Boreal Jan 2015 #68
MicaelS Jan 2015 #7
Historic NY Jan 2015 #8
arely staircase Jan 2015 #9
NBachers Jan 2015 #11
Tarheel_Dem Jan 2015 #62
Cha Jan 2015 #10
Cayenne Jan 2015 #24
Tarheel_Dem Jan 2015 #61
Scootaloo Jan 2015 #13
Bonobo Jan 2015 #14
Scootaloo Jan 2015 #15
NuclearDem Jan 2015 #23
arely staircase Jan 2015 #70
JayhawkSD Jan 2015 #16
arely staircase Jan 2015 #18
NuclearDem Jan 2015 #22
AgingAmerican Jan 2015 #25
NuclearDem Jan 2015 #32
nationalize the fed Jan 2015 #27
Cali_Democrat Jan 2015 #52
zappaman Jan 2015 #58
NuclearDem Jan 2015 #65
newfie11 Jan 2015 #28
LiberalFighter Jan 2015 #19
SunSeeker Jan 2015 #21
nationalize the fed Jan 2015 #26
rusty fender Jan 2015 #30
Rex Jan 2015 #57
MADem Jan 2015 #29
maced666 Jan 2015 #31
arely staircase Jan 2015 #33
Fumesucker Jan 2015 #37
Cali_Democrat Jan 2015 #53
cheapdate Jan 2015 #56
Jamaal510 Jan 2015 #38
arely staircase Jan 2015 #39
SunSeeker Jan 2015 #49
KentuckyWoman Jan 2015 #41
Rex Jan 2015 #51
gwheezie Jan 2015 #59
Art_from_Ark Jan 2015 #63
arely staircase Jan 2015 #69
Go Vols Jan 2015 #64

Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 12:26 AM

1. Yes, I remember.. some on here were siding with his "political opponents who claimed he had been

outdone by Russia's president." Laughing at the President and HOORAH4Putin..tell me, is putin still laughing.. are Putin's supporters with the CT about the CIA? Poor misunderstood putin



Happy New Year, arely!

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Response to Cha (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 12:55 AM

4. happy new year, cha!

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 12:58 AM

5. Cheers to 2015, arely!

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Response to Cha (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 4, 2015, 08:27 PM

60. +1

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 12:51 AM

2. The sanctions has had an effect on Russia and Putin thought he could cover it up but the facts are

he hasn't been able to lie out of this.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 12:52 AM

3. K

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 01:17 AM

6. The sanctions have had no effect.

Russia is dependent on oil prices. Obama has had no effect on that.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 01:57 AM

12. They have had an affect - just as the op stated...

If there were to be an oil shock, then the sanctions would be like a double whammy.

Interesting, btw, that with the Saudi's strong influence, there was no production cut for opec - and now Russua and Venezuela feel the most pain. By design? Who knows, but our insiders do enjoy it.

It is also fun to watch the Ruble charts during the day....either it is getting smoked by 5-10% losses or making recoveries/holding the line, which you also know is Putin blowing through his fx reserves war chest - and he Is tearing up dollars like crazy now to support the Ruble...amusing to watch.

The death blow could come if we start exporting NatGas to Europe...that would mess with Putin - big time.

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Response to Lucky Luciano (Reply #12)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 01:02 PM

35. "If there were" are the important words and you slide past them with such finesse.

The sanctions had little effect. They had some, to be sure, but they were already showing signs of cracking. Still are.

The reasons the sanctions *will* have a larger effect are because the price of oil has declined. It means that when Russia turns to the West for help, he'll be blocked. That time is near, but not quite yet. Countries first exhaust their internal means. However, blocking him when he turns to the West might be "doing something stupid" because I suspect China will find it handy to buy a lien on the property adjacent to theirs, right over the backyard fence. Let's here it for a stronger, more influential China--esp. one whose influence over Russia places it in a position of having influence next to Europe.


For all the anti-fracking talk, increased fossil fuel production in North America is a large part of the reason for the price decline. Oops. "I oppose what will make the sanctions work better." The push for renewables helps that, but OPEC is really out not to punish Russia (although given Russia's support for Syria and Iran, let's not minimize that more than appropriate) so much as to retain market share in the long term by diminishing N. American production. They're counting on the lack of production and the lack of need for production to help pro-regulation types to re-ban a lot of drilling and to cap fracking and domestic production here and in Canada. Then to uncap them would be a political fight, during which oil prices can fund the Saudis and other petrostates.

Then there's the rest of the reason for the oil price decline: The rest of the world's economy is pretty sucky. Not horrible. Just close to flatlining. "I support why the sanctions work. Because most of the world's economy is torpid." Oops, again. It again relies on the absence of good things happening to a lot of other people.

If the economies of the world's countries were doing as we'd like, if we had our way with fracking, the sanctions would be weak, indeed. Obama lucked out by not getting what he wanted on two fronts, at least not yet, so the sanctions *will* eventually have a big role to play.

As with Syria, sometimes Obama is lucky, claims that it's innate cleverness and smarts, and some people don't see the difference because they already think Obama is clever and smart so saying he's "lucky" is just taking away what's already his awesomely deserved due and glory as a member of whatever group the "some people" involved belong to. It's what every group of adherents does with their guy in office--all good things are his personal responsibility and shows the leader's inherent wisdom; all bad things are the enemies' responsibility and shows their inherent evil.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 02:10 AM

17. You actually think there was no communication by POTUS and/or Kerry with the Saudis . . .

Last edited Thu Jan 1, 2015, 02:44 AM - Edit history (1)

to keep pumping just as we ramped up production so the price of oil would fall?

The president hinted as much, and not so subtly, when he noted that Russia's economy is totally dependent on selling oil while ours is very diversified.

Some people thought Putin was a genius but it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how to put a chink in his armor. It was pretty apparent that to hurt him, along with the sanctions, all that had to be done was to create a situation where the price of oil dropped dramatically, a sanction in itself.

A price drop in oil like what has happened in the last few weeks has NEVER happened before. NEVER. That is no accident. Calls were made and behind-the-scenes-agreements were reached. Think about it, there have been huge jumps in oil prices but not huge drops. And voila, Russia's economy is tanking.

Putin wanted to play hard ball in Crimea and the Ukraine. Well, he got back some of his own medicine without a shot being fired and he's not liking it

It's called realpolitik.

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Response to brush (Reply #17)

Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:58 PM

47. No I don't think there was any communication.

And if there were the Saudis would have ignored it. They act in their own interests, nobody else.

When is Putin withdrawing from Ukraine?

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Response to former9thward (Reply #47)

Sun Jan 4, 2015, 07:21 PM

50. Okay, everyone has their own opinion

Let's see how long Putin lasts if oil price stay low.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 02:23 AM

20. Bullshit. Putin himself admitted sanctions had an effect.

Putin said sanctions were responsible for up to 30% of Russia's economic crisis and added the ruble would stabilize.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/12/18/putin-russia-ruble-policy-economy-annual-address/20575887/

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #20)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 12:39 PM

34. Dictators love to blame outsiders for economic troubles.

Castro has been blaming the U.S. for Cuba's troubles for 55 years. Putin is attacked on DU for anything he says. But now he is a credible source? I guess we pick and choose.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #34)

Sat Jan 3, 2015, 12:36 AM

36. And right wingers love to claim nothing Obama does works.

But everyone I have heard who knows anything about the Russian economy (and doesn't have ODS) says sanctions have had an effect on Russia's economy. To say there has been "no effect" as you so ludicrously do, says a lot about you.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #36)

Sat Jan 3, 2015, 02:47 PM

40. And for you to attribute everything that happens in Russia to

Obama's 9th dimensional chess says a lot about you. When is Russia leaving Crimea?

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Response to former9thward (Reply #40)

Sat Jan 3, 2015, 11:24 PM

42. Bullshit again. I didn't attribute "everything" to sanctions nor Obama.

I was just calling out your obvious lie that sanctions had "no effect."

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #42)

Sun Jan 4, 2015, 01:21 AM

43. The sanctions were for Crimea.

When is Russia leaving?

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Response to former9thward (Reply #43)

Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:28 PM

44. I see you refuse to defend your lie and just want to change the subject.

Figures. My right wing in-laws act the same way.

Putin was not sanctioned just for Crimea. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_sanctions_during_the_2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukraine

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #44)

Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:53 PM

46. When is he leaving?

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Response to former9thward (Reply #46)

Sun Jan 4, 2015, 05:18 PM

48. You have repeatedly lied in this thread. Stop wasting my time. nt

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Response to former9thward (Reply #46)

Sun Jan 4, 2015, 07:40 PM

54. A childish reply

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Response to Shivering Jemmy (Reply #54)

Sun Jan 4, 2015, 07:43 PM

55. And yours is so insightful.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:32 PM

45. Jesus H. Christ, find a new shtick

 

Your stuff is very stale.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 4, 2015, 11:48 PM

66. The sanctions

 

have had a negative impact but not enough to destroy Russia, which is the goal. Hence the next weapon in the economic warfare toolkit, driving down oil prices which the US has EVERYTHING to do with. What do you think John Kerry was discussing with with the Saudis? BTW, when Syria was about to blow up in the most dangerous way, Prince Bandar went to Moscow to see Putin. He told Putin that if Russia would cease it's support for Syria, he (Bandar) would guarantee there would be no terrorist attacks at the Sochi Olympics, following with "because we (the Saudis) control them (Chechen terrorists)". A week or two ago I read an article where Strobe Talbott made a veiled threat to Russia that they could be expecting trouble from Chechnya in the near future.

This is serious economic warfare intended to destroy the Russian Federation and return them to the Yeltsin free-for-all when billionaire oligarchs were made by looting all of the public assets. THAT is why there is so much shilling going on demonizing Russians and Putin, who Russians overwhelmingly support. Economic warfare of this magnitude has a very high likelihood of becoming a full blown world war (good for business, bad for living things). The OP is nothing short of disgusting with it's gloating tone over something so serious and immoral. Sounds like Sean Hannity. YooEssAy! Uhrah, kick some ass, it's the American way, we'll fuck you up if you refuse to capitulate to The Hegemon. Only this is not Iraq or Libya or Syria. This is a nuclear power. It is TOTALLY fucked up and nothing to be happy about it. You think a lot of people died in Iraq, well how about a world war because that's what's coming if certain factions have their way. The same people who wanted war in the middle east are the same ones behind this.

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Response to Boreal (Reply #66)

Mon Jan 5, 2015, 01:34 AM

67. I think I agree with most of your post

except the driving down of oil prices. I think that has been because of a global glut due to U.S. fracking and a softening of demand.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #67)

Mon Jan 5, 2015, 03:33 AM

68. There's been an oil glut for many years

 

The price was high because the producers could keep it high. Same for gas prices - because they could. Now there's a political reason for the tanking of oil prices. I believe that most fracking is for natural gas but I'm not certain about that.

One thing you can bet on is that the economic warfare against Russia is taken personally by the Russian people. Rightly so. It's so tragic because after the long years of the Soviet Union and the cold war, feelings were really positive toward America. No more. Russia bent over backwards, after the fall of the USSR, to play ball with the "world order", i.e., the Anglo-American controlled financial and trade system. They also scaled back tremendously in the military arena as a good faith measure. For that they got surrounded by NATO and saw Ukraine overthrown and the west backing actual fascists and Nazis! It cannot be understated how important that last part is to Russians who fought the Nazis on their own soil at a terrible price in Russian lives. All of the gestures of friendship and goodwill have been met with a giant knife in the back and brought back all of the worst memories of WWII.

Such insanity. I've cried about it many times One thing that really shocks me are the Europeans who are chomping at the bit for war. You'd think being the battleground for the first two would have taught them. Guess not.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 01:22 AM

7. Fuck that Chekist motherfucker Putin...

You rock POTUS.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 01:26 AM

8. Hey what happened to the Putinestas here?...

suddenly they got quiet...along with the RT trolls.

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Response to Historic NY (Reply #8)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 01:35 AM

9. maybe they got laid off nt

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 01:53 AM

11. Their contract was contingent on the effectiveness of the job they were doing

Terminated for poor performance

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Response to NBachers (Reply #11)

Sun Jan 4, 2015, 08:44 PM

62. +1

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Response to Historic NY (Reply #8)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 01:53 AM

10. Checking for RT's spin on this.

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Response to Historic NY (Reply #8)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 03:21 AM

24. My concern far war with nukes makes me a Putinista

The accusation of 'Putinista' gets thrown around even more in freeperville. You Putin haters are the same neocons.

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Response to Historic NY (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 4, 2015, 08:39 PM

61. TYT/Buzzfeed: "Russia's Online Troll Army Is Huge, Hilarious & Already Everywhere "



"Moscow is financing legions of pro-Russia Internet commenters. But how much do they matter?"

"Russia's campaign to shape international opinion around its invasion of Ukraine has extended to recruiting and training a new cadre of online trolls that have been deployed to spread the Kremlin's message on the comments section of top American websites.


Except for a few remaining hardliners, I think they're just embarrassed, and not quite so "huge", but still "hilarious".

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 01:57 AM

13. I'm sure Putin is suffering greatly while the people of Russia are unharmed

 

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 02:00 AM

14. Yes, destabilizing Russia is CERTAIN

to have a good outcome for all of us!

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #14)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 02:01 AM

15. Bankrupting militarily powerful European states has only brought good things, through history

 

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #14)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 02:29 AM

23. Because up until this point, Russia's been hunky-dorey.

 

Just go ask the Chechens!

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Response to NuclearDem (Reply #23)

Mon Jan 5, 2015, 08:50 AM

70. notice how we have gone from 'sanction can't hurt great mother russia' to 'sanctions will cause ww3'

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 02:06 AM

16. Last laugh? At the destruction of an economy and the suffering of its people?

 

Is this what this nation has become? That we set out to destroy the economy of another nation with which we are not at war, and when we succeed and impose economic suffering on the people of that nation we "have the last laugh" over what we have accomplished? I'm sure our founding fathers, who staked their "lives, their fortunes and their sacred honour" to form this nation are very proud.

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Response to JayhawkSD (Reply #16)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 02:12 AM

18. what took y'all so long?

Damn.

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Response to JayhawkSD (Reply #16)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 02:27 AM

22. Maybe we can make Putin pinkie promise to behave

 

Or maybe we can just resolve the Czechoslovakian problem and bring back peace for our time.

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Response to NuclearDem (Reply #22)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 04:02 AM

25. And the USA

 

...can stop annihilating countries based on trumped up nonsense too.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #25)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 12:11 PM

32. No argument from me.

 

Do appreciate the obligatory "hanging blacks" quip though.

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Response to JayhawkSD (Reply #16)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 04:34 AM

27. + a lot

I'm counting the days until I can leave this horrid country. It has morphed into something I want nothing to be a part of anymore. I can hardly stand to be around people at all. Most are totally disgusting.

You're so right with your last sentence.

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Response to nationalize the fed (Reply #27)

Sun Jan 4, 2015, 07:33 PM

52. Where are you gonna move to?

 

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Response to nationalize the fed (Reply #27)

Sun Jan 4, 2015, 08:00 PM

58. You moving somewhere with no people?

When you leaving?

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Response to nationalize the fed (Reply #27)

Sun Jan 4, 2015, 11:25 PM

65. Make sure there's a Green Party wherever you move to.

 

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Response to JayhawkSD (Reply #16)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 05:16 AM

28. +infinity. Nt

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 02:18 AM

19. Interesting how some start blaming Obama for doing the wrong thing

and then when the crickets stop chirping the result turns out to be positive.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 02:26 AM

21. K & R

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 04:29 AM

26. "They rely on oil. We rely on oil and iPads and movies and you name it."

Derivatives?

All of this will be much more funny if the crashing oil triggers crashing derivatives - that were just foisted on the American people by both parties.

The last laugh? This play has barely begun.

Here's another laugh riot: China and Russia and others trading in anything but dollars. Har de Har Har.

"We rely on ...iPads"...made by slave labor in China. Yeah that's enough to be proud of right there.

Apple 'failing to protect Chinese factory workers

Poor treatment of workers in Chinese factories which make Apple products has been discovered by an undercover BBC Panorama investigation.

Filming on an iPhone 6 production line showed Apple's promises to protect workers were routinely broken.

It found standards on workers' hours, ID cards, dormitories, work meetings and juvenile workers were being breached at the Pegatron factories...
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-30532463


It takes the BBC to report on this because MSNBC is doing "Lockdown" repeats and CNN is - well who knows what those washed up has beens are doing. Who cares.

Remember- if YOU are an American YOU are now liable for "helping" if the derivatives go south. Laugh it up.

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Response to nationalize the fed (Reply #26)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 09:44 AM

30. Exactly!

I hope that the derivatives don't but if they do, will the ones who cheer now, cheer then?

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Response to nationalize the fed (Reply #26)

Sun Jan 4, 2015, 07:59 PM

57. That is a great counterpoint, we don't rely on derivatives as much as Wall Street does.

 

As far as making huge profit goes. Yet, so right...the other countries can just move to another currency and devalue the crap out of the dollar.

Citigroup owned this last bill, sad.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 09:40 AM

29. I think inside Russia, those who miss their Perdue chickens and Pringles, are thinking Pootie's an

absolute ass--they're afraid to say so, but they'll think it.

I think Obama, without fanfare, without drama, and in a very calm, quiet, and subtle way, farted in Putin's general direction.



The guy on the left--a smart feller.

The guy on the right--a fart smeller.

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Response to maced666 (Reply #31)

Thu Jan 1, 2015, 12:30 PM

33. When we aren't using dead dinosaurs the likes of Putin dont matter

Not to mention the ME becoming mercifully irrelevant.

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Response to maced666 (Reply #31)

Sat Jan 3, 2015, 07:16 AM

37. I think that's a lot of what the lower oil prices are about

The fossil fuel moguls are getting worried about all the renewable energy resources coming online and want to slow or stop the spread of renewables.

It seems much of DU has a new found love for Hummers and the drivers thereof, I haven't read a thread bashing gas guzzlers in quite a while. Next thing you know DU will be cheering the resurgence of the incandescent light.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #37)

Sun Jan 4, 2015, 07:35 PM

53. DU has new new found love for Hummers?

 

That's awful.

Got a link by any chance?

Thank you in advance.

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Response to maced666 (Reply #31)

Sun Jan 4, 2015, 07:48 PM

56. Oversupply causes falling price.

Falling price causes new drilling and production to contract worldwide, e.g. - Transocean has already shut-down or retired quite a number of drilling rigs here and around the world. Prices will probably remain low through 2015, but will eventually rise again, assuming there continues to be demand.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Sat Jan 3, 2015, 07:43 AM

38. Well played.

I can't imagine Bush ll, or any of the GOP's presidential hopefuls having the know-how to cripple Putin like this. Willard and the rest of them would've either wanted to re-do the Cold War, or--in the Paul clan's case--want the country to basically do nothing either way. I knew early on that sanctions would be the best route.

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Response to Jamaal510 (Reply #38)

Sat Jan 3, 2015, 01:18 PM

39. Grown ups playing chess vs

children with lawn darts.

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Response to Jamaal510 (Reply #38)

Sun Jan 4, 2015, 05:38 PM

49. Exactly. If Bush was in charge, Putin would have kept marching to Kiev.

And we'd be arming for war.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Sat Jan 3, 2015, 03:19 PM

41. I doubt Obama is laughing over this

He and the Saudis decided it's time to put Putin in his place. That I applaud.

Every war creates carnage of some sort or another. To break Putin the low price of oil also hurts some small American companies that built on alternative fuel. Some won't survive the storm and the people who's livelihood depend on those companies will take awhile to recover, if at all. And in Russia, the hardships in mid winter can't be fun.

But if I were Obama and had to choose between smacking an evil like Putin upside the head versus pumping some taxpayer money into keeping some out of work Americans afloat and a bunch of Russians using Pravda for TP before they burn it for heat ..... Well that's not a hard choice. Laughing would not be part of the deal though.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Sun Jan 4, 2015, 07:27 PM

51. Hard to feel sorry for any country crying wolf right now.

 

Everyone new America was not drilling like we could for oil. They did nothing to prepare for when we finally DID decide to frack the shit out of the country and now their jaws are on the ground at 9 dollar per barrel.

They knew we would eventually do it. Should have planned for it.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Sun Jan 4, 2015, 08:02 PM

59. I can't stand putin

How any liberal could defend him is mind boggling. I hope he is destroyed.
Obama was right. Putin was wrong.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Sun Jan 4, 2015, 10:58 PM

63. Where do you get $9 a barrel? Oil is much higher than that.

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Response to Art_from_Ark (Reply #63)

Mon Jan 5, 2015, 08:48 AM

69. hyperbole

gas is very cheap. Putin not so tough when gas is cheap.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Sun Jan 4, 2015, 11:09 PM

64. :/

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