Oliver Stone replies to his critics.

[another_liberal]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Sissyk (a host of the General Discussion forum).

The opinions noted film maker, Oliver Stone, recently expressed concerning the crisis in Ukraine caused a storm of controversy among supporters and opponents of American/NATO involvement there. Today he took time to answer a few questions and discuss some of the charges regarding his estimation of the situation.

American film director Oliver Stone (RIA Novosti)


Oliver Stone: Ukrainians are suffering from US 'ideological crusade' against Russia.


In response to those who took exception with his claims that the Ukrainian crisis involved “outside agitators,” Oliver Stone took to social media to advance his argument, saying that Ukrainians are the victims of a US strategy akin to Cold War 2.0. This week, Stone stirred a political firestorm with his views on what he believed sparked the Ukrainian crisis, following a private interview with Viktor Yanukovich, the former Ukrainian president who was ousted in the February 2014 coup.

"It seems clear that the so-called ‘shooters’ who killed 14 policemen, wounded some 85 and killed 45 protesting civilians, were outside, third-party agitators,” Stone said, following his four-hour conversation with Yanukovich in Moscow. “Many witnesses, including Yanukovich and police officials, believe these foreign elements were introduced by pro-Western factions – with CIA fingerprints on it.” According to the American-born filmmaker and writer, Ukraine is just the latest country in a long list to fall prey to “America’s soft power technique called ‘Regime Change 101.’”

Stone’s comments reverberated like an earthquake on both sides of the Ukrainian divide, prompting him to elaborate on his original statement. Stone’s follow-up post began with him explaining that he has no particular sympathy for Yanukovich. “For those of you angry with my analysis of Ukraine yesterday, please try to understand the bigger picture I’m offering,” he wrote on his Facebook page. “I have no brief for Viktor Yanukovich, he may well be the most corrupt president Ukraine’s ever had. Ukraine has a dramatic history of corruption. That is not my point.”

However, he went on to argue that there is “ample evidence of pro-Western, third-party interference” in Ukraine, specifically mentioning Victoria Nuland and John McCain, two high-ranking American officials who appeared on the streets of central Kiev at the height of the Maidan showdown between police and protesters. He also mentioned specific US government organizations, such as USAID, which has been operating in Ukraine since the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the National Endowment for Democracy, which he remarked “apparently organize very well on Facebook and Twitter,” suggesting a possible method of organizing the protesters for an anti-government rally.

(snip)

Read more at: http://rt.com/news/219211-stone-ukraine-us-policy/

[zappaman]

1. I look forward to his hard hitting documentary about Putin.

[another_liberal]

3. It's bound to be a good source of information about the man . . .

Information is always useful, no matter what your intentions might be.

[cherokeeprogressive]

13. Information about Pooty-Poot? You mean like how many fingernails he pulled out with pliers?

[another_liberal]

26. Maybe so . . .

If that's really what he did.

[Duckhunter935]

34. How he stole the Superbowl ring?

[sabrina 1]

49. Can you point out where what he says about US interference in Ukraine is wrong?

Or are we supposed to ignore facts when they are so inconvenient, and so provable, they weren't even trying to hide it they were so desperate to get 'our guy' into power over there.

Stone isn't the only one stating the facts about Ukraine. The whole world knows, due to EVIDENCE, how much of a role the US played in the Kiev Coup.

Not sure why anyone would be surprised, the US has been involved in coups around the world for decades.

[Duckhunter935]

54. well since there was not a coup

and I wonder how much Russian influence helped the old elected president change his mind and go against what his people elected him on, you know European economic integration.

[GGJohn]

59. Sure there was,

it was the cookies she handed out don'tcha know.

[Duckhunter935]

60. Thats right

the ones that turned them all into Nazi zombies

[NuclearDem]

2. ...

[another_liberal]

4. Did you read the OP?

Just curious.

[NuclearDem]

5. With your OPs, I don't even have to anymore.

[another_liberal]

10. That's too bad . . .

I guess you haven't heard about the prizes either?

[NuclearDem]

17. Yeah, I'm not giving page clicks and ad revenue to an arm of a homophobic fascist government.

[another_liberal]

33. By all means then don't . . .

A few more "page clicks" and Putin's Russia might rule the whole World!

[Duckhunter935]

37. Either am I

A_L does that enough for all, I am sure he is glad to pay Putin's propaganda arm.

[HERVEPA]

55. There are prizes for reeading your posts? well, OK. I guess there should be.

[Duckhunter935]

18. Wonder how many times

Nazi, Fascist, coup were put in the article some how. Of course we all know it was a giant NATO, Nuland conspiracy by the special cookies that caused the hundreds of thousands of marchers to become neo-Nazi, Fascist NATO zombies.

[another_liberal]

23. There will be more details to come . . .

You'll understand it all some day, I'm sure.

[Duckhunter935]

31. Nope, I think

history is on my side, Putin and Russia can try that in their country, but it does not work in the rest of the civilized would that has free and open press not owned and run by a dictator.

[GGJohn]

6. I did, and this is what I think of it.

I laughed so hard I puked.

[another_liberal]

21. Sounds awful!

Better have that checked out.

[GGJohn]

25. It only happens when I read articles posted using RT as a source.

Stop using RT as a source, and my affliction will stop.

[Duckhunter935]

28. I will have to use that combination next

Thanks

[GGJohn]

30. My pleasure. eom

[sabrina 1]

50. I did, thank you.

[hobbit709]

7. Just once I'd like to see you use another source than RT for your BS.

[Duckhunter935]

11. The other one he will use is

Sputnik, RT's little brother of propaganda. Just a matter of time.

[another_liberal]

12. My what?

Lets be clear about our meaning.

[hobbit709]

16. BS-Taurine metabolic byproducts.

[SidDithers]

8. ...

Sid

[Duckhunter935]

9. Another hard hitting RT investigation

[another_liberal]

15. Love your graphics . . .

You are a creative master.

[Duckhunter935]

20. Thank you

I work very hard at it

[Archae]

14. Some people here say RT.com is like Faux "news..."

No.

RT.com is the mouthpiece of a brutal dictator, who has his droulin phanbois.
(Term created at anime conventions as a label for absolute fans of some character or movie/TV show)

RT.com has no credibility, no sense of decency, and no class.

[another_liberal]

19. Can we get back to the topic of the OP?

Please stop trying to highjack my OPs for your RT-bashing. Comment about the topic of the OP or refrain from replying altogether. Thanks.

[Archae]

22. Using facts about RT.com = "bashing."

Got it.

[Duckhunter935]

24. The viability of the source

is very much on topic, I know you hate that fact.

You have been politely asked many times to find other sources that would not overpower the point you are trying to make.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

27. No, we don't need to; it's not worth taking it seriously. N.T.

[tritsofme]

29. Who do you think you are, Putin?

You don't get to dictate what may be discussed in threads you start. lol

When you post from nonsense sources, you should expect ridicule.

[Duckhunter935]

32. Thank you

My thoughts exactly

[another_liberal]

36. It was hardly a "dictate," my precipitous friend . . .

As a matter of fact it was much more in the nature of a polite request.

So much for asking nicely. (sigh)

[Duckhunter935]

41. yes, real polite

"Please stop trying to highjack my OPs for your RT-bashing. Comment about the topic of the OP or refrain from replying altogether. Thanks."

Let me suggest politely, you source your OP's from other sources and you might be taken more seriously.

[jberryhill]

40. "Obama birth certificate 'definitely fraudulent'"

http://rt.com/usa/obama-certificate-definitely-fraudulent-438/

[Duckhunter935]

42. Nice headline

Not true but nice headline, leave it to RT

[greatauntoftriplets]

43. Oy. Good find.

[Posteritatis]

65. Not to mention the related links

One claiming a coffin was found on Mars, and another claiming the US shot down MH370. Nice.

[HERVEPA]

56. Sorry, you don't get to make the rules.

[jberryhill]

35. "victims of a US strategy akin to Cold War 2.0"

Like the victims of Cold War 1.0 in the Baltics, East Germany, Czech Republic, Poland, Hungary...

[another_liberal]

38. Good question!

That comparison might be a little extreme, but some parallels are clearly there.

[jakeXT]

39. It's on his facebook account for those allergic to the red menace

https://www.facebook.com/TheOliverStone

[Duckhunter935]

45. like his links to

consortiumnews.com, another rag

[jakeXT]

48. rferl is the way to go?

http://www.rferl.org/

[Duckhunter935]

53. Believe that about as much as RT

[Comrade Grumpy]

44. The relentless RT-bashing is a diversion.

Yes, it's a mouthpiece of the Russian government. One should always keep that in mind when reading it. Just as one should keep in mind who controls NBC, CNN, or the Wall Street Journal.

There's a whole lot of "shoot the messenger" going on.

Did RT inaccurately quote Oliver Stone?

Maybe Stone is right-on. Maybe he's full of shit. Discuss.

This place gets a real 1950s red scare feel sometimes.

[Duckhunter935]

47. As others have said

I will not give them the satisfaction of my traffic, If A_L really wants a good honest discussion, find another source.

[Octafish]

51. Well said! Thank you, Comrade Grumpy!

Unlike USA's Corporate Owned News, RT never swore up and down that Saddam and Iraq were behind 9-11 to lie America into war.

As for Oliver Stone, he is right on. The neoconservative want to loot Ukraine and, eventually, overthrow Putin.

[Cayenne]

57. Neocons are preparing us for War

It is not acceptable to Neocons that Syria won't allow a pipeline. Nor is it acceptable to Neocons that Putin controls the European energy supply to Europe.

[Octafish]

61. Absolutely war. Condoleeza Chevron exposed the game...

...in a great article from Katya Soldak of Forbes from a couple years' back.

Message from Condoleezza Rice to Ukraine:

"The World is Watching You"

Katya Soldak
Forbes, 9/19/2012

Recently, Condoleezza Rice, Dominique Strauss-Kahn, Gordon Brown, Ukrainian president Victor Yanukovych and Turkish Prime Minister Recep Erdogan congregated at Livadia Palace in Southern Ukraine, the summer retreat of the last Russian tsar, Nicolas II—a Renaissance style building on the top of a hill, with the Black Sea rolling below. The same place as where Theodore Roosevelt, Winston Churchill and Joseph Stalin met at their famed Yalta conference of 1945.

The difference is that back then the rulers of the powerful countries met to make real decisions about the world’s future. This past weekend, Rice, and other guests of the 9th annual Yalta European Strategy meeting came to share their thoughts about the world’s challenges. Discussions today could influence policymakers and lead to making tomorrow’s decisions.

Among the matters discussed were the economic future of Europe and the role of the United States in dealing with economic and political issues of today. Meanwhile, the Ukrainian theme continued throughout the two-day conference. The government imprisoned former prime minister and opposition leader, Yulia Tymoshenko, and this has drawn criticism by the West; Ukraine tightens conditions for independent media and freedom of speech; the parliamentary elections coming up this October have already caused concerns among democratic observers on the subject of fairness and transparency.

Condoleezza Rice made it clear in her speech that the world is interested in Ukraine and is carefully watching all its developments: “Country like Ukraine with consolidation of democracy is watched carefully,” she said. Rice emphasized the importance of freedom of speech and free elections. “If Ukraine speaks in one voice, this voice would be heard.”

SNIP...

Indeed, the 9th annual Yalta conference – by many opinions, one of the best international platforms for discussions among high-profile politicians and innovative thinkers – is organized by Ukrainian billionaire Victor Pinchuk’s foundation and is taking place in Ukraine at a time when European leaders have recently boycotted the Euro 2012 soccer championship over Tymoshenko’s arrest and detainment. The fact that American politicians like Condoleezza Rice and Britain’s Gordon Brown attended, can’t be attributed to good relationships between Ukrainian and Western governments.

CONTINUED...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/katyasoldak/2012/09/19/message-from-condoleezza-rice-to-ukraine-the-world-is-watching-you/

In retrospect, it appears the Neocons -- the axis of Wall Street and Secret Government -- have stayed on top the entire time. And, like their ilk did to Iran in 1953, the Ukraine Operation will not benefit the American people as a whole. It will benefit the owners of Big Oil and Condoleeza Rice.

Odd how so many DUers ignore that in order to crap on Oliver Stone's interview in RT. The guy's too dangerous for American tee vee.

[reorg]

46. The “Snipers’” Massacre Question

Last edited Thu Jan 1, 2015, 04:46 PM - Edit history (1)

From some of the replies in this thread I get the impression that posters don't seem to be up-to-date. Here is some documentation to enable them to catch up. The German TV report below reached the same conclusions as the study (original as well as copy with English subtitles below).

The “Snipers’” Massacre Question

The massacre of several dozen Maidan protesters on February 20, 2014 was a turning point in Ukrainian politics and a tipping point in the escalating conflict between the West and Russia over Ukraine. The mass killing of the protesters and the mass shooting of the police that preceded it led to the overthrow of the highly corrupt and pro-Russian but democratically elected government of Viktor Yanukovych and gave a start to a large-scale violent conflict that continues now in Donbas in Eastern Ukraine. A conclusion promoted by the post-Yanukovych governments and the media in Ukraine that the massacre was perpetrated by government snipers on a Yanukovych order has been nearly universally accepted by the Western governments and the media, at least publicly, without concluding an investigation and without all evidence considered.

For instance, Ukraine’s President Petro Poroshenko in his speech to the US Congress on September 18, 2014 again claimed that the Yanukovych government overthrow resulted from mass peaceful protests against police violence, in particular, killings of more than 100 protesters by snipers on February 20, 2014. The question is which side organized the “snipers’ massacre.”

This paper is the first academic study of this crucial case of the mass killing. Analysis of a large amount of evidence in this study suggests that certain elements of the Maidan opposition, including its extremist far right wing, were involved in this massacre in order to seize power and that the government investigation was falsified for this reason.

http://www.academia.edu/8776021/The_Snipers_Massacre_on_the_Maidan_in_Ukraine

Snipers' Massacre on the Maidan Video Appendix I Part 1

TV report (Monitor, ARD): Wer waren die Todesschützen auf dem Maidan in Kiew? (Who were the Maidan snipers)
(with English subtitles)

German original

[1step]

52. Ollie, the CIA didn't commit EVERY crime in world history!

And one need only look at Vladimir Putin's actions over the last several years to know who's primarily responsible for this Second Cold War that we find ourselves in. (Not that our MIC isn't livin' every minute of it.)

[Octafish]

58. Just those that maintain Capital's power over Democracy

William Blum explains:

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/William_Blum.html

And if the CIA overthrows democracies overseas, what's stopping then from doing it here?

[Posteritatis]

63. Remember, foreigners aren't real people and can never act independently

Nothing is ever done outside of the US without being directly controlled from Washington, because the other 95% of the planetary population, not being Americans, can't have agency of any type.

(At least that's what geopolitics talk around here loves to imply.)

[Blue_In_AK]

62. I don't care what anybody says...

...I really like Oliver Stone. He makes people think and question their assumptions.

[treestar]

64. Digging into JFK assassination conspiracies

has gotten him into conspiracy-mode. Some people get addicted to it. Everything becomes a conspiracy.

[Sissyk]

66. Locking.

Please read the pinned thread at the top of GD and feel free to repost this in Creative Speculation.

Thank you.