Suggested New Year's Resolutions For The NRA

[kpete]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by SYFROYH (a host of the General Discussion forum).

1. We will stop referring to ourselves as a “civil rights” organization that defends “human rights.” It is a sacrilege to people actually killed or harmed by civil and human rights abuses.

2. We will stop pointing at Chicago and saying gun laws don’t work. We will admit the majority of Chicago crime guns are trafficked from states and counties with loose laws.

3. We will stop saying “the government is going to take your guns” to block federal laws. The confiscation we announced 7 years ago never happened.

4. We will stop blaming “mental health” problems for U.S. gun violence. We admit every country in the world has mental health problems but they don’t have Newtowns and Virginia Techs.

5. We admit fighting universal background checks arms criminals and that “armed criminals” sells more guns to “good guys.” Ka-ching.

6. We acknowledge that “outlaws” don’t have guns in the 28 EU countries, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Japan and other countries with strict gun regulations. We also admit, grudgingly, they are not “tyrannies.”

7. We will stop our insulting comparison of guns to knives, hammers, cars and swimming pools–none of which kill when used as directed. On the same day as the Sandy Hook massacre, 20 Chinese school children were attacked with a knife and none died.

8. We accept responsibility for the armed vigilante movement popularized by George Zimmerman and Michael Dunn. We admit “carry” laws are the biggest revenue infusion since “Obama is going to take your guns.”

9. We will stop defending sales to civilians of non-defensive weapons like TrackingPoint’s “can’t miss” sniper rifle. We admit they are ready-made for insurrectionists, terrorists and hate groups.

10. We regret our work to help suspected domestic abusers keep their guns while under orders of protection. We admit this costs many women’s lives and that our sleazy sales pitch to tell women to arm themselves too just makes things worse.


http://gunvictimsaction.org/blog/new-years-resolutions-for-the-nra-2015/

[samsingh]

1. kick and recommend

[99Forever]

2. K&R

[Takket]

3. K&r well done!

[Bjorn Against]

4. Let's hope the hosts allow this to stand

The NRA is the one right-wing extremist organization we are not supposed to talk about in GD, there are supporters of this extremist group in our very own gungeon and they get very angry when anyone criticizes guns in GD.

[Fred Sanders]

6. Very angry? Apoplectic would be more accurate. The NRA is central to the current discussion of

race and violence in America....with 300 million guns in America it has reached a crisis stage...if guns are best for self-defence, what do you use to defend against guns....more guns?

Look out for the thread to be locked also, but I think discussing the agenda of the NRA should be in General Discussion.

[hack89]

11. Crisis stage? Hyperbole much?

we have cut our murder rate in half (along with all violent crime) and have experienced 20 years of steadily declining gun deaths.

The crisis stage was 20 years ago at the height of the crack cocaine epidemic.

[lastlib]

20. We've only cut it in half??!? Un-frickin-believable that we tolerate that.

We could cut it by 95% if we could pass some sensible gun laws.

[hack89]

22. Such as? nt

[lastlib]

24. Well, we could start by.....

declaring the NRA a terrorist organization (they meet all the definitions) and just go from there.

[Duckhunter935]

32. and how would that cut the rate?

what is your end state, full confiscation of guns?

[GGJohn]

36. How does the NRA meet the standards of a terrorist organization?

So in that case, the over 4 million members are terrorists also?

[Duckhunter935]

44. I would like to hear that also

Kind of sounds like some kind of fantasy to me, but maybe the poster has some facts to post that substantiate that charge.

[MrMickeysMom]

48. Are you kidding?

They have THE strongest lobby in EVERY state whose mission is the relaxation of responsible gun ownership.

This is the same level of irresponsible buying of government, which I and others have deemed financial terrorism. These folks, of course are another set of fascists inervating the spinal column of congress. Chief among them is -

JP Morgan Chase & Co
United Kingdom HSBC Holdings
United States Bank of America
United States Citigroup Inc

The NRA is nor more represented by IT'S 4 million members than the U.S is by it's 300 million Americans. Just who in the world do you think the NRA is, anyway? Surely, the lobby is in control, not responsible gun owners.

Surely, the lobby is in control of Congress, not the ever dwindling responsible voters who give up more and more each year.

[GGJohn]

51. That doesn't answer my question.

How does the NRA meet the standards of a terrorist organization?
Are the more than 4 million members therefore terrorists also?

[MrMickeysMom]

52. Then, I suggest you read again...

This time, read for meaning, because I answered it. Alternately, you could get your eyes checked.

[GGJohn]

56. You're saying that because YOU and some OTHERS have deemed it to be financial terrorism

the NRA is a terrorist organization?
Now, give us a real reason why, by govt. standards, the NRA meets the definition of a terrorist organization.

[Duckhunter935]

59. That is an amazing leap

I am so glad he is the one to decide for all of the USA

[GGJohn]

60. It's people like that poster with the extremist views that make the NRA so effective.

[Duckhunter935]

61. they tend to make it ten times bigger

than it actually is. If they did not make it out to be the boogyman, they would not generate the backlash support the NRA gets. Many NRA members simply do no agree with the legislative portion and the leaders insane comments.

[MrMickeysMom]

66. I'd spend a little more time reading...

Your icons are cute and over-used in this case. It's easier to cut and past a LOL icon than to actually study the splinter groups who are continually busy at writing legislation at the state level.

Case in point is a law, not penned by our general assembly in PA and other states, but by the NRA that each municipality must respond to as a result of the National Rifle Association and other groups, who would now sue local municipalities, (see Philadelphia, Gov Tom Corbett) that enact ordinances stricter than state firearms laws.

So, because of a bill, approved by a 138-56 vote in PA, each any an municipal government will be sued if they choose to have strong firearm protection laws. This granted legal standing to "membership organizations" to sue over local gun laws, and collect legal fees and other costs if they win.

Now, give me a real reason why this isn't an act of terrorism against local communities who wish to reduce needless deaths by guns. We're not talking duck hunting, GG… we're talking about responsible gun ownership. They take the big lobby and force these laws up our asses by right wing governors and general assemblies… state by state.

As for financial terrorism, how about what happened after Sept 2008, when the banks who were too big to fail held their gun up to the American people's head, insisting that we cough up $700 billion or all hell would break loose for the American economy.

Like I advised you earlier… Read for meaning. Alternately, you could also STFU, because I see right through what you say.

[hack89]

68. Because terrorism has a specific and well defined meaning in the eyes of the law?

and that legislation does not meet that legal threshold?

You can't just make up your own definitions of terrorism.

[Duckhunter935]

74. sure they can

laws do not matter. Most do not even care about nomenclature of firearms parts or how a firearm works.

[GGJohn]

72. Local municipalities are forbidden from enacting stricter firearms laws due to state pre-emption

laws, laws which almost every state has.
It makes sense for the state, and the state alone, to set firearms laws, why does it make sense to be legal in one area of a state, yet be illegal in another area a state?
So, I guess, by your definition of "terrorism", most of the states in the country are guilty of terrorism.

Your definition of terrorism is ridiculous as is your definition financial terrorism.

[Duckhunter935]

58. Bloomberg spends more than the NRA

I guess in your head he is a terrorist also right?

[Duckhunter935]

63. "I and others have deemed financial terrorism"

simple questions for you

who are the others?
can you link to a source and explain the criteria used to come to that fact?

[MrMickeysMom]

69. Here's one...

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/10/21/financial-terrorism-2/

or,

https://www.dollarvigilante.com/blog/2014/9/26/central-banking-is-financial-terrorism.html

[Duckhunter935]

75. well I am sure

the one related to Australia works well in the US

But does it meet the legal definition of terrorism, I think not.

[hack89]

37. Can we get rid of the hyperbole please?

there is no way the NRA meets the legal requirements of a terrorist organization. Can you provide actual links to the law with some supporting case law?

[GGJohn]

40. That post is about as stupid as those saying that certain members of Congress or SCOTUS

are guilty of treason.

[Duckhunter935]

45. yep nt

[Duckhunter935]

30. yes, once again

the crazy over the top hyperbole that goes against any facts.

[NYC_SKP]

54. The total number of guns has simply grown with the rise in population, Fred. Here's a graph:

Ownership per 10,000 people has grown a little, still not quite 1:1.

I, too, think discussion of the NRA is OK for GD, when it comes from such a good member as kpete. I love her posts.

Graph:

[Fred Sanders]

62. 30 to 40000 firearm related deaths per year forever is an acceptable price for the NRA and gun folks

Math does not lie, the loss of life in the tens of thousands by the easy squeeze of one trigger finger, so easy a two year old can kill, in a nation teeming with easy to get legally guns and itchy trigger fingers, tens of thousands year after year after year, the "breakdown" always breaks down to too many guns.

[GGJohn]

64. Of which 2/3 of those are suicides.

That's more of a mental health crises.

[Duckhunter935]

67. we sure need to help

the mental health issue and limit the use of prescription drugs as a quick fix all, they have some serious side effects.

[Duckhunter935]

65. yes ensure you add the suicides

makes the numbers higher.

out of 300 million firearms

[hack89]

8. I think bemusement is a more accurate term

I also find your comments funny considering that "fuck the NRA", "gun humper" plus endless fascination with gun owners genitalia seem to be the extent of many gun control advocates intellectual contribution to the discussion.

In any case, DU gun owners have little to be concerned or angry about - the president and the Democratic party look out for us and make us feel comfortable. If any side has reason to be angry and frustrated, it would be yours. A 20 year losing streak is hard to swallow.

[Fred Sanders]

10. No one has mentioned any of the things that concern you....you raise it, rather defensively.

[hack89]

12. I love these threads. I like to encourage them

it brings out the worst in people like you. Which is good for gun owners.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

14. ~~~ + well a lot

[pocoloco]

19. Excellent for the repugs also!

Never to early to get them fired up for 2016.

[Duckhunter935]

42. Yes it is amazing to see

the two differing sides and the responses. I think this thread will stand as it is about the NRA and not about 'guns" but I think some will attempt to push the GD envelope again. The one anti-gun group is so slow to be almost dead and even the two hosts have gone away.

[Duckhunter935]

33. They will show up, they always do

you accuse me of saying things and would not answer a simple question. Instead of an apology you just discreetly edit that part out of your original post.

I figure the sexual references will show up shortly

[paleotn]

18. "the president and the Democratic party look out for us and make us feel comfortable."

...dead 6 year old school kids be damned I suppose.

[hack89]

21. There is a lot we can do to fix that

Not that any of the proposed legislation introduced in Congress post Sandy Hook would have prevented the shooting.

My point is that they recognize that the 2A protects an individual right to own guns and have gone out of their way to defuse the NRA "Obama will take away your guns" rhetoric.

[Duckhunter935]

43. So what are your suggestions

that would have prevented that, be legal and are in agreement with the 2nd amendment and the democratic platform?

Do tell please

[Fred Sanders]

70. Demanding all this "explaining" from others while explaining nothing yourself is.....boring....

[Duckhunter935]

71. I have explained many times before

I will try and find them and link as I am not a great at typing

I would like to know what yours are but I understand if you do not want to post any, but just post things against guns without any suggestions.

[Fred Sanders]

73. I agree with all the points in the OP, what more does one need to know?

Loving the NRA and also hating on Bloomberg kind of gives away your game.

[GGJohn]

76. And just what game would that be?

[Duckhunter935]

80. at least twice now he has accused me of

something I never said, this is getting old. I am not going anywhere and will call him out every time.

[GGJohn]

81. He has a bad habit of accusing others of things they never said and then not apologizing

when shown it to be a lie.
Don't hold your breath waiting for an apology.

[Duckhunter935]

83. I know

it does show his level of discussion. I find it truly sad, I know he is better than that.

[Duckhunter935]

79. and you would be lying sir

"Loving the NRA"

Point to a link please, I dare you

Please apologize, it is the only polite thing to do

[Duckhunter935]

29. you have to seperate the

training and safety portion of the NRA that gets support from the legislative lobbying organization that I have seen no support for.

The NRA actually has a safety program for children and guns unlike the so called "gun safety" organizations that seem to condone children picking up guns and stealing them.

[onehandle]

46. And Hitler made the 'trains run on time.'

The NRA is just another barely veiled corporate re-composition of the Klan.

[NutmegYankee]

53. Other than you losing by Godwin's law, that was actually Benito Mussolini. nt

[onehandle]

77. Hey, I didn't defend the NRA on a liberal forum.

The NRA being a thinly veiled offshoot of the modern Klan, who in turn are just another flavor of Nazi.

Oops... I told the truth again.

I 'lose'...


On the other hand, I did mess up on the Mussolini thing.

I meant to say Wayne LaPierre.

[NutmegYankee]

78. Neither have I for that matter.

[onehandle]

82. Nope. Upstream.

There are 'plenty' and 'many' and 'lots' of others to defend GOP moneymakers.

Web Proxies are fundy.

I mean, fun.

[Duckhunter935]

84. link to one

[Duckhunter935]

55. yes today they tend to be nuts

but years ago at the beginning, the training and certification programs they developed were and are still very good programs to teach firearm safety to all ages. This includes age appropriate if you see a gun, do not touch get an adult. This is the direct oposite of the so called 'gun safety" organizations that do nothing of the sort.

The NSSF is a much better organization to support.

[Fred Sanders]

5. The NRA is as much a civil rights organization as David Duke is a human rights activist.

How about "We will stop marketing and ask manufacturers to stop marketing, firearms for children, and will stop the manufacturing of and advertising of weapons specifically made for and to attract children, as guns are not toys."

[Doctor_J]

7. When visiting youtube I STILL get the ad,

"Should the GOP fight Obama on Gun Control"?

After 7 years they're still making money telling the crazies that Obama's a gun grabber

[hack89]

9. Obama and the Democratic party have been good to gun owners

it is amazing that people actually fall for that ad.

[Duckhunter935]

34. I do too

[Thespian2]

13. K & R

May I say one more item, kpete? The NRA will stop showing its ads on YouTube, especially to one offering a free bag for those who join. These POS interrupt the movies I am trying to watch.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

15. NGVAC, they're very helpful

http://gunvictimsaction.org/blog/tag/gun-facts/?sort=title

[NYC_SKP]

27. Check this out...

This is the pathetic way certain organisms behave.
They simply select a company, challenge them to publicly state their opposition to some gun thing, and then threaten a boycott if they don't comply.
Unbelievable.

Before You Buy That Greeting Card, Read This!
June 1, 2014 by NGVAC

National Gun Victims Action Council and Newtown Victims & Clergy for Corporate Responsibility Call for Immediate Boycott of Hallmark

Asked to publicly support universal background checks, Hallmark Chairman Donald Hall, Jr. said, “We do not get involved in divisive issues.” Of course not taking a stand is taking a stand–pro guns. Also Hallmark lobbyists work for the “divisive issues” they do get involved with. Here are examples of alternative cards for June events. NGVAC will continue to offer free cards to send instead of Hallmark’s.

Here is the background to the boycott. Friday, 30 May 2014 CHICAGO In response to a letter from the Newtown Victims & Clergy for Corporate Responsibility (NVCCR) and NGVAC asking Hallmark Cards to publicly support universal background checks, Hallmark Chairman Donald Hall, Jr. said, “We do not get involved in divisive issues.”

In conversations with Steve Dorell, Hallmark’s Head of Public Affairs, Elliot Fineman, CEO of NGVAC, pointed out that Hallmark bans guns in its corporate headquarters to protect its CEO and senior management, and yet has deliberately chosen to not require Hallmark Gold Crown® stores to ban guns. Additionally, Hallmark spokeswoman Linda Odell assured the gun lobby when Hallmark mistakenly appeared on the NRA’s enemies list, that the card giant has no intention of supporting anti-gun initiatives.

“For Hallmark to say it does not get involved in divisive issues is an utter fiction,” said Fineman. “Clearly Hallmark is involved in this divisive issue because not choosing is a pro-gun choice. Further, Hallmark takes strong stands on other issues and pays its eight lobbyists over $500,000 per year to pass laws related to postage, radio, TV and taxes.”

http://gunvictimsaction.org/blog/before-you-buy-that-fathers-day-card-read-this/

[Duckhunter935]

35. soounds like some kind of terrorism

seems to fit the definition that a poster above thinks should get the NRA banned

[Paladin]

16. K&R.

[onehandle]

17. Gun ownership gives you more rights in America than regular people.

Especially in Texas and other red states, re: voting rights.

Proving that SCOTUS's interpretation of the Second Amendment is bullshit.

[kioa]

26. The President and the Democratic Party platform agree the 2nd protects an individual right.

As does the majority of the American people and the text of the Amendment itself.

Right to keep and bear arms is a right. It was even included in the Bill of Rights to clear up any confusion.

[onehandle]

39. It's amazing how many folks come to DU armed with NRA talking points.

That is... 'how many.'

[kioa]

47. The President's statements & the Democratic Party are "NRA talking points"?!

"President Obama strongly believes that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual right to bear arms.
That's never been in question."--Offical White House response.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/response/president-obama-believes-second-amendment-he-also-believes-common-sense

"We recognize that the individual right to bear arms is an important part of the American tradition, and we will preserve Americans' Second Amendment right to own and use firearms."--Democratic Party Platform.
http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/democratic_party_gun_control.htm

Bloomberg's fear-mongering nonsense only works on the ignorant.
Neither guns nor life in the USA is scary.
Get out more. Learn something.

[onehandle]

50. But you didn't stop at the Democratic platform.

You couldn't resist.

And in this post, you did it again.

LOL!



Goodbye...

[kioa]

57. Sorry, bud.

President Obama, the Democratic platform, the vast majority of the American people, and the Bill of Rights all disagree with your extremist authoritarian attitude.

Deal with it.

[GGJohn]

49. There's that NRA talking points meme again, right on time.

[kioa]

23. I'm not a member of the NRA, but allow me to respond to this list.

1) "Civil Rights (pl) (n) -
Personal liberties that belong to an individual, owing to his or her status as a citizen or resident of a particular country or community."
A citizen of the USA has a liberty to keep and bear arms. Thus RKBA is a civil right.

2) You mean that criminals will create a black market when faced with prohibition?
Good point, but I have no idea how you think this bolsters the argument for gun control.

3) "Assault Weapons BAN" It's a difficult sell to try to claim that you don't want to ban guns while supporting a gun ban

4) You don't think the US should improve it's abysmal mental health care?
I disagree.

5) Odd accusation. Any supporting links?

6) None of those countries can choose their own Head of State either.
I prefer the greater personal liberties the USA has.

7) Guns when "used as directed" don't commit murder. Thus the law against murder.
If your problem is with mass casualties: the 3 biggest mass killings in US history is 9/11, OKC bombing & Happy Land Fire; none of which used a firearm.

8) CCL holders are less likely to commit crimes than the general public or police officers.
Zimmerman should been found guilty & put in prison; are you going to support doing away with the right of a fair trial as well?

9) The sniper rifles used by the police & military is the Winchester M70 & Remington M700.
Both rifles are Bolt Action hunting rifles.
Tell me again how you aren't going to 'take people's guns away'.

10) People convicted of Domestic Abuse are felons. Felons lose the RKBA

[mountain grammy]

25. I want to address two points..

the "laws against murder" are overridden by the NRA inspired "Stand your ground" laws. Anyone can feel threatened at any time by any thing and shoot to kill.

Felons lose their RKBA rights? Ha, that one's a real joke..

like you, a joke.. You ask for links, where are yours?

[kioa]

28. No. Laws against murder are still there.

I have no idea how you think otherwise.

"Stand your ground" simply means that a victim doesn't have to prove they tried to retreat when confronted with a threat.
29 states, including the state with the lowest murder rate in the nation has stand your fround
Rhode Island has never had the requirement to retreat, do you think that makes murder legal there?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law

Yes felons lose their 2nd Amendment rights.
http://civil-rights.lawyers.com/civil-liberties/the-second-amendment-and-the-right-to-bear-arms.html

Your ignorance on this subject makes you vulnerable to Bloomberg's fear-mongering.
Neither guns nor life in the USA is scary.
Get out more. Lose the irrational fear.

[Duckhunter935]

38. and you would be wrong on both points

murder is still there and can not be overridden by stand your ground that has to meet certain criteria.

Felons do lose the RKBA rights for legal gun possession. I support any felon caught with a gun a he or she is now a prohibited person, being harshly punished.

[99Forever]

85. Same pathetic NRA propaganda, different day.

Bye bye, gun violence apologist.

[Duckhunter935]

86. too bad those points appear

to be totally true.

point to the incorrect ones

[kioa]

87. If you manage to come up with something more substantial than "ZOMG NRA!!1!!" I will be happy to

have the discussion with you.

Which is almost certainly a better offer than you will get from the Democratic Party after the debacle of you & Bloomberg's authoritarian nonsense.

The more people know about guns, the less they support gun control.
The more people hear about gun control the less they support gun control.

Gun control is a political dinosaur that is going to be relegated to the tar-pit of irrelevancy for a loooong time.
Deal with it.

[niyad]

31. too bad that the cretins who run that organization will never develop the conscience

or even the slightest level of awareness, to make those resolutions.

[tblue37]

41. K&R. nt

[aikoaiko]

88. Locking.

Please consider posting in one of the gun issues groups.