By the way, my friends... *this* is why Republicans are winning the war

[MannyGoldstein]

Yesterday, I posted a poll asking if DUers would be willing to get off their butts and actually do something to help stop the TPP:

Would you actually *do* something to stop the TPP?

The aggregate response was only a teeny-tiny fraction of that garnered by some insane crap on the same subject I wrote a few days back, which was cute and a little clever but asked nothing from its readers:

Enough! Can we stop the divisive anti-TPP @#$%-stirring?

This is why Republicans are winning, despite having ideas and an agenda that are unspeakably stupid and delusional: they get up off their asses and fight.

Hell, they don't even think, they're allergic to that bodily function - they just fight. They band together, they take over school boards, they run nasty scams, they shut down government, they create nefarious organizations with great influence, they fight, they fight, they fight.

We flail our arms a bit, ponder, then turn on Jon Stewart, feeling very smart, as the shit-storm bears down.

Rah.

We're @#$%ed.

[joshcryer]

1. It's always easier to be against something than for something.

That's why the Republicans win, they are against everything, while the Democrats are for things.

It's the difference between having actual values and having none. The Republicans don't have any values, they just want everyone to lose, they want nothing good to be achieved.

To Republicans, achieving nothing is better than achieving something.

[MannyGoldstein]

3. When was the last time Liberals took over a school board?

When was the last time Liberals started a college to indoctrinate young minds? Conservapedia is edited by students at crazy-right colleges, who are given the task as assignments. Can you imagine a "Liberal" college doing that?

[joshcryer]

11. It's been done.

See Venezuela.

Not sure that's what you're going for.

[AZ Progressive]

17. Left wingers in other countries are much more aggressive

[joshcryer]

18. To meager effect.

Brazil and Chile reduced poverty and increased education substantially better than Venezuela, without windfall oil prices. I don't think that's something to aspire to. Democracy, not authoritarian style Republican crony tactics of pushing everyone around is the solution.

The problem is the messaging on the Democrats side is all over the place. We tear ourselves down as much if not more than the other side.

[djean111]

42. Here in my county in Florida, a racist homphobic right-winger has been trying to get on to

the school board for quite a while, and we proudly handed him his third defeat in November. Another seat was up for grabs, and one candidate was trying to stir up sentiment because a group mailed out some pretty racist flyers about her, but a little investigation showed that she is right-wing, and was attacked by a racist group of right-wingers. So - the liberal candidate kept her seat, handily. The school board is non-partisan, but people use it as a stepping stone to higher political position. And the three-time loser is hoping to instill Christian and anti-gay "values" - his web site is pretty clear about that.

[drray23]

82. that is something i am considering

I live in Southeastern virginia and I am seriously considering running for school board.

Until recently, we were one of the few counties left for which the school board was not even elected positions, it was nominated by the council. It was changed a few years ago. They are nowhere near as bad as the horror stories we hear about from Texas (changing schoolbooks , etc..) because its a small county and they dont wield enough power. Still, I think a liberal scientist voice (I am also a PhD physicist) would do them good. Right now, they mainly have people with similar backgrounds (farmers, a couple lawyers) and they are all conservative.

[MannyGoldstein]

84. Please!

Young minds need truth, not nonsense.

[RobertEarl]

2. I tried to tell you that

And they own the fucking voting machines. Go ahead, prove me wrong.

[haikugal]

4. Sadly true.

I missed that poll, I'd do something but it would have to be in a supporting capacity as I'm not what I once was

[MannyGoldstein]

6. Start by writing that as a haiku.

Thanks.

[haikugal]

22. Manny...

Snow in my hair

Once strong

Courage with clear eyes


Haiku is my horse but poor as this attempt no doubt is, for you Manny, I try.

I can't help but feel tptb are trying to beat us into submission, I will not submit, or give up.

[BrotherIvan]

25. fantastic

[haikugal]

28. Thanks n/t

[MannyGoldstein]

64. !!!

[haikugal]

83. Thanks for that Manny.....

[DeSwiss]

7. Um, Manny.....

...I think you have inadvertently gotten back onto that loop of causal reality that you're trying to break away from. It is not why they're ''winning'' as you call it. Whatever that is.

Dichotomous thinking is how they win.

It's the oldest game in the book.

Used by the serpent himself (if you're into fables).

Divide & Conquer.

- I've said this before but it bears repeating: ''You don't put new wine into old skins.''

[MannyGoldstein]

9. Ok. So what's the way forward? nt

[rhett o rick]

14. We need a strategy and tactics and goals.

I got the following from the Frank Factor a few years ago and made a few changes:

I. Objective
Regain and Maintain Our American Democracy*

II. Goals
A. Free and Fair Elections
1. Public Funded Elections
2. Instant runoff voting
3. Eliminate Electoral College

B. Representative Government, Reestablish
1. Eliminate corporate person-hood
2. Remove corporate influence from all levels of government
3. Ban public officials from accepting lobbyist positions

C. A Free Press
1. Strengthen and expand alternate media
2. Strengthen public media
3. Fight to keep internet free

D. An Economy for All Americans
1. Oversight of the Federal Reserve
2. Tax reformation
3. Budget reformation
4.
E. Foreign Policy free of Military Industrial Complex Influence
1.
III. Actions for Citizens
A. Infiltrate existing political organizations to affect changes
1. Local political organizations (Democrat, Republican, Green, etc.)
2. PTA and school boards
3. Unions
B. Exploit current means to pressure representatives
C. Prepare, run and support Liberal/Progressive candidates

[joshcryer]

20. Here's how we get there:

II. Goals
A. Free and Fair Elections - win a majority of state legislatures to fix gerrymandering, win the presidency, win the congress with a majority
1. Public Funded Elections - win the presidency, win the congress with a majority
2. Instant runoff voting - win the congress with a supermajority
3. Eliminate Electoral College - unconstitutional, win all state legislatures, win the congress with a majority, wait several years for the constitutional amendment

B. Representative Government, Reestablish
1. Eliminate corporate person-hood - win the presidency, put in sane SCOTUS judges
2. Remove corporate influence from all levels of government - win the presidency, win the congress with a supermajority
3. Ban public officials from accepting lobbyist positions - unconstitutional, win all state legislatures, win the congress with a majority, wait several years for the constitutional amendment

C. A Free Press
1. Strengthen and expand alternate media - win the presidency, win the congress with a majority
2. Strengthen public media - win the presidency, win the congress with a majority
3. Fight to keep internet free - win the presidency, win the congress with a majority

D. An Economy for All Americans
1. Oversight of the Federal Reserve - ???
2. Tax reformation - win the presidency, win the congress with a majority
3. Budget reformation - win the presidency, win the congress with a majority

E. Foreign Policy free of Military Industrial Complex Influence - win the presidency, win all state legislatures, win the congress with a supermajority

III. Actions for Citizens
A. Infiltrate existing political organizations to affect changes
1. Local political organizations (Democrat, Republican, Green, etc.)
2. PTA and school boards
3. Unions
B. Exploit current means to pressure representatives
C. Prepare, run and support Liberal/Progressive candidates

Good luck with that.

[rhett o rick]

39. You think it's impossible so why try?

[joshcryer]

53. Where did I say it was impossible?

I in fact chose the easiest route I see to achieve each goal...

The point is even small change requires a lot of work.

[rhett o rick]

54. How am I to interpret your response of "Good luck with that." other than you dont

think it's possible?

[joshcryer]

55. Not sure you have the will.

Or most people around here

It took two years of hard weekly if not daily activism to legalize marijuana in Colorado by tens of thousands of volunteers.

Nothing is easy.

[rhett o rick]

56. I am still missing your point. That we, or most people don't have the will so

we might as well give up? Help me out. What's your point?

[joshcryer]

70. I'm wishing you luck.

How can this be interpreted any other way?

The key is I'm not going to fight your battles for you, I fight my own battles.

So get fighting.

Talk is cheap.

[belzabubba333]

34. josh is correct all this can be done but people have to vote

[rhett o rick]

41. He isn't saying anything but the obvious. Too many people believe that merely voting will solve our

problems. Of course we have to win elections, with progressives, but how? That's what we need to work on.

[aspirant]

45. IMO

Step 1 is to get rid of the ConservaDem candidates. We seem to always focus on the repub challengers and with a blink of the eye here comes a fully funded DNC DCCC shill. Let's find ways to clear the dem field so we're not always looking over our shoulders.

[rhett o rick]

15. We need an organization like moveon.org or PDA. Work both inside and outside the

DEmocratic party.

[DeSwiss]

33. You could start here:

- Trying to change what's outside, without changing the inside first has been the problem all along.

There are no other answers Manny. This is the only way. We have to evolve or perish. And it all starts from the inside.....

''It is deliberate policy to keep even the favoured groups somewhere near the brink of hardship, because a general state of scarcity increases the importance of small privileges and thus magnifies the distinction between one group and another.''

~George Orwell, 1984

[CanSocDem]

38. Yep. (eom)

[MannyGoldstein]

71. I like those monologues

I'm a sucker for Alan Watts, hadn't heard that one.

I agree with the sentiment, but getting people froma A to B is the tricky part. Unfortunately, most of us learn by pokes rather than persuasion.

Antidichotomist... are you a follower of Adwaita? I sorta am, but not a very good one.

[NightOwwl]

8. The only war is the war that the 1-party system invented

to keep the people occupied with hate and fear while tptb implement the policies that benefit tptb.

Divide and conquer. The oldest trick in the book.

[DeSwiss]

48. I was 3 minutes ahead of you.

[NightOwwl]

58. :)

[Tuesday Afternoon]

10. truth

dammit. I just rec'd your thread. but, when you are right you are right and you are right about this.

[dissentient]

12. The Democratic party needs an overhaul, and some new themes

I'd suggest what I have read here in other posts, concentrate on messages helping the lower classes, like John Edwards did in his campaigns, for example.

The current messages and "marketing" of the party is an epic failure, and not working...

Democratic Party approval hits record low

The Democratic Party's approval numbers have hit their lowest point in at least two decades following an electoral drubbing that gave Republicans control of both houses of Congress, according to a new poll released Wednesday.

The Gallup survey has the Democratic Party pulling a 36 percent favorability rating, a 6-point drop since September. Meanwhile, the survey has the GOP’s favorability holding at a steady 42 percent, up 2 percent from before the election.

The new numbers stand in stark contrast to the figures a year ago: In October 2013, Republicans hit a new low during the government shutdown, with Democrats holding a 43 percent approval to the Republicans’ 28 percent. But the GOP’s numbers have steadily climbed since then — while the Democrats’ numbers slowly dropped in the second half of 2014.

That reverses a broader trend in recent years that has seen Democratic favorability rising as GOP favorability dropped. As Gallup points out, “This marks the first time since September 2011 that the Republican Party has had a higher favorability rating than the Democratic Party.”

Democratic favorability has even dropped among Democrats. More - http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/11/12/democratic-party-approval-hits-record-low/

[hollysmom]

13. excuse me, I have a life beyond message boards, I don't read every post and only answer

a few of them. Depends on my mood, but I do regularly write my currently republican congress man and my democratic senators.Every time an issue comes up. Will be writing them on social security tomorrow after I get the computer work doing to raise money for charity.

This has no relation to the the republicans winning, I try, when I am out to drop doubts about FOX when I go out, every time I wrapped a book by O'Reilly, which I did too often, I would comment about the contents,Like I wonder why he did not write about Patton's anti-semitism and leaving the jews in the camps rather than move them out. Or a comment about the laws passed last year I think might affect the person buying the book. You now little sees of thoughts I hope might add up some day. People need to stop believing what is on the internet and what is said on TV as the truth from every where.

[JDPriestly]

16. Sorry that I missed your polling post.

I will write my congresscritters and talk to my neighbors about the TPP. I strongly oppose. I strongly oppose the sneaky way the corporations and the Obama administration are trying to put one over on us.

[AZ Progressive]

19. The real question is, why do conservatives believe in their own causes much more than liberals?

Liberals accept losing much more than conservatives. Conservatives don't accept defeat.

And why do liberals play checkers when conservatives play chess? It's so frustrating being a liberal nowadays when liberals many decades ago were so much smarter in playing the game.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

23. "why do conservatives believe in their own causes much more than liberals?"

It's because they parrot the Right Wingers in the media and they believe that's the same thing as learning.

That's why they actually thought they were doin' some real larnin' off'a Glenn Beck's chalkboard.

[Kablooie]

29. Conservative views stem from fear, liberals from intellect.

So conservative reactions are more extreme and desperate.

[NightOwwl]

57. But both are trapped behind The Wall of Fear

The Wall of Fear is a well-known term on Wall Street. It is the result of carefully selected 'news' (in the case of conservatives they get fear stories about black on white violence, immigrants taking over their jobs, democrats taking over the world etc... Liberals get fear stories about gun owners out of control, religious wackos, republicans taking over the world, etc....

The worst of the worst 'news' is chosen and drummed into heads 24/7. It is propaganda, pure and simple. 'News' has two purposes: Manipulate emotions and manipulate stock prices.

Successful traders all stress one common theme: To be a successful trader, ignore the news. It is only noise and distraction.

We can't control the world. Wishing won't make it so and stressing about it won't make it so. If a truly important, newsworthy event occurs - you'll hear about it. But 99% of what is passed off as news has nothing to do with informing the public of pertinent events.

[nilesobek]

21. The Republicans

are overcoming their lack of intelligence with hamhanded, blunt determination and willpower. Nice analysis Manny.

[Unknown Beatle]

24. Republicans don't fight.

They're chicken shits. What they do is cheat, lie, steal, gerrymander their way into power, something people with a moral compass wouldn't do.

And when they're in power, they fill the courts with activist judges that will always rule the right wing way. Thus consolidating an endless power loop that benefits repugs.

So I call BS on chicken shit repugs fighting.

[lovemydog]

26. 'We have nothing to fear but fear itself.' - FDR

'Keep hope alive.' - Jesse Jackson

'We're fucked.' - MannyGoldstein

[DeSwiss]

49. From Franklin.....

...to Jesse to Manny.

- I like how you think! Weird.

[center]
''Look at it this way, I'll be the one holding the gavel when the shit hits the fan.''[/center]

[BrotherIvan]

27. I think that sometimes asking for consent slows down momentum

There are plenty of people who are ready. They're ready to work and to fight. There are many different factions here and some are more eager than others to change the status quo. Trying to get the naysayers on board is a waste of energy. They'll probably come along when things get going. Just like all the people who are now claiming that Obama was always going to veto XL but I distinctly remember them arguing that it was no big deal and probably a good thing a month ago. Follow the leader. You don't need 100% consent to get started in any endeavor.

[aspirant]

46. Do we follow a leader

or can the people take pride in being the leader.

[BrotherIvan]

51. I think that leaders are very important to any movement

Whether it be a leader in actuality or in spirit. Leaders provide vision. Some leaders provide a plan. It can even be a book that inspires people. For instance, both Gandhi and MLK site Tolstoy as their inspiration for using nonviolent resistance, the cornerstone of their movement. Marx was a leader by providing a vision as well.

I think Americans have been misled for quite some time about their rights and their worth. Downsizing and constant fear of losing a job has made US workers compliant, much more so than in Europe where you see widespread demonstrations. TPTB have also used religion, racism, and social issues as a wedge. There needs to be a sort of renewal of confidence before people will be willing to stand up. A leader can do that.

And there are plenty of selfless leaders such as Sanders and now it appears Warren. They are speaking for the people and building a platform. People and movements need focus, consistency and structure, without those it is aimless.

[DonCoquixote]

30. I agree with you and raise you

I know this is a TPP post, but frankly, when you talked about school boards, you hit a ghuser of truth. There was a time whent he GOP was a joke, especially after Nixon was cuaght, but the one thing the GOP did is that they realize that ALL POLITICS ARE LOCAL, and that they focused on every small election, especially Schoolboards. Part of the reason we have an steretype of being arrogant is because we do not like to focus onlocal elections, and if we do, we focus on some "personality" we market rather than build a base.

Take 2014. We focused on people we could market (Like Alison Grimes and Charlie Crist) rather than focus on building LOCAL ground bases. We focused on who would be in 2016 rather than 2014. Truth be told, we cannot depend on the big money types, so the only tool at our disposal is to focus on local people and elevate them.

Take my beloved Florida. One of the SILENT victories is that we got hardcore liberal Alan Grayson BACK IN OFFICE, in an area that, Disney aside, was NEVER very liberal. Did Debbie Wasserman Schulx offer support?, no, because she was too busy focusing on DINOS that would keep the center-right power base of the Democrats. But of course, she is a hardcore Hillary supporter, but a fat load of good that will do now that Rick Scott is governor; it is bad enough that the only hope of Jeb not getting this state is if Rick Scott himself, who is a rival of Jeb, decides to not help him steal it so that he can go for the brass ring in 2020.

[Jim Beard]

31. I am a Democratic Party County Chairman in a rural Texas county and have been called a troll.

I am paying my dues fighting tthe rural republicans and my fellow Democrats posting on this board. It ain't easy in Texas.

[belzabubba333]

32. i get called that all the time here and ive never voted for a republican

there are people here who are just waiting for something to pounce on and if youre outside of their clique anything you say (excpt complete agreement) gets you labelled as a troll

[aspirant]

47. Are their a few issues/principles

that we can stand together in the middle ground?

[DeSwiss]

50. Reason enough to give pause, I'd say.

- Maybe you're fighting the wrong battles or the wrong people.....


Or maybe the dues just got higher.......

[PDittie]

35. This isn't a place to organize Democrats.

Forget the "herding cats" analogy. If people were looking for a way to help, they'd be contacting their local party organization. If they really wanted to feel powerful and still do as little as possible, they would sign one of the online petition requests that come by the ton to their inbox.

Here? We play in the lounge and argue with each other. DU is what it is.

[msanthrope]

68. Thank you....polls on DU mean nothing. Show up to the meetings if you want anything done. nt

[Scuba]

36. Apparently DU is mostly a bunch of keyboard warriors.

[DeSwiss]

52. And who are great with graphics!

[center]

"Truth is a great mirror shattered by time into a hundred thousand pieces,
allowing everyone who has a piece to declare that they have The Truth."
~Sufi Gabril Kahlil



Winston Smith: Does Big Brother exist?

O'Brien: Of course he exists.

Winston Smith: Does he exist like you or me?

O'Brien: [font color=darkred]You do not exist.....[/font]

~George Orwell, 1984





The Economist: 2011 US States vs. Other Countries GDP comparisons[/center]

[arthritisR_US]

37. You're absolutely right, that is exactly what

Howard Dean's 50 state strategy was.

[Bobbie Jo]

40. What?

You mean the fan base isn't made up of activists and principled do'ers?

I'm shocked!

So much for the holier than thou theory.

[Denzil_DC]

44. Dude, I rarely bother reading your posts, having dipped in early on in my time here.

I believe this is the first time I've bothered replying. No loss, I'm sure.

So years of "Third Way Manny" posts and sniping at the President haven't produced your desired result? Yeah, it's the readership that's to blame for sure.

[rhett o rick]

59. Funny how you rarely bother reading his posts yet have such a terse comment.

What are the desired results you feel he is after? I know it might be hard because you rarely read his posts.

I am going to guess that you don't like him trying to galvanizing support for the progressive movement. I am guessing that you don't like the progressive movement. I am guessing it's because you are comfortable and you don't care about those that aren't. Forgive me guessing but since you don't make your point well, I have to guess.

[Denzil_DC]

60. This OP seems to be bemoaning lack of success in "galvanizing support."

As for your guesses, guess away. I made my point quite clearly. I pointed out that these tactics I mentioned don't seem to be working. I'm guessing you didn't like it. See how that works?

Now, on this gory, sad night of all nights, I suggest you go pick a fight with someone who's interested in wasting time and energy doing keyboard battle with you. Bye.

[BeanMusical]

65. Your post was alerted on.

On Wed Jan 7, 2015, 09:11 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Funny how you rarely bother reading his posts yet have such a terse comment.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6054558

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

snarling unprovoked personal attack and the ad hominems pulled from nowhere just to charge at someone who disagrees with Manny is just bizarre. Posters shouldn't be attacked like this just because of this poster's massive crush on Manny Goldstein who is perfectly capable of taking care of himself.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Jan 7, 2015, 09:20 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Nowhere near alert-worthy.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Really, really, really getting tired of people calling on a jury when they get butthurt.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I found the post that was replied to offensive. This one? Not so much.

Lol!

[Denzil_DC]

66. Unnecessary alert, whoever it was, but I'll be charitable and guess it was probably well-meaning.

Thanks for posting the results. I'm tickled by juror #7 who found my post above offensive! Maybe an alert's in the pipeline ...

And yeah, the alerter gets one thing right: if Manny and I have anything to say to each other, I guess we're both big and mean enough to handle it ourselves without any cavalry.

[rhett o rick]

80. Thanks for posting that. It's worth the laugh. And thanks for the rofl emoticon, nice touch. nm

[MannyGoldstein]

62. Yeah, I suck.

But I suck heartily because I enjoy it, not with any particular goal in mind,. Although perhaps it's time I had some sort of a goal.

Perhaps Dean Wormer was right, and fat, drunk and stupid truly is no way to go through life.

[Denzil_DC]

63. You don't suck, Manny.

I don't find your posts that I've read helpful, that's all, but that's just me. I think your heart's in the right place, FWIW. I'm a bit tired and shaken tonight by events in Paris and the likely aftermath for blameless Muslims across Europe and beyond, so that's something I consider a definite positive. Peace.

[Number23]

61. Maybe it just proves that your fans are as averse to work as they are in discerning proper satire

That's what I'm going with.

[msanthrope]

69. Oh my deity.....there it is. nt

[MannyGoldstein]

72. That's a nasty thing to say about some kind people

I think the situation is like when one house train's a dog. When it poops outside, we shower it with praise -- not because we like the poop, but because the poop's not in the house.

I assume that any praise that I receive is in that spirit.

[Number23]

73. What an interesting (and shockingly truthful) analogy, particularly all of the poop references

The only question is, are you the pooping dog that had to be trained not to do it indoors or does that dubious honor belong to your fans? Either way, I feel you are on the verge of a breakthrough.

[MannyGoldstein]

74. I predicted your subject line almost perfectly. nt

[Number23]

75. Well, hell. Let's add "psychic" to that long list of "talents" along with "satirist!"

"Up" to "two" now!

[MannyGoldstein]

76. What about self-aware?

You did say that my poop analogy was pretty good, no?

[Number23]

77. The fact that you acknowledge that your posts are all poop is a good start.

Even better would be if you stopped spraying it all over this web site.

[MannyGoldstein]

79. Hal has an answer for you:

http://www.palantir.net/2001/tma1/wav/cantdo.wav

[Number23]

81. I rarely click on your posts here on DU. Why do you think I would click on something from you

that takes me to another web site?

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

67. It's their leadership, media, think tanks, and wordsmiths that do the damage

Their base is no better than ours.

[AgingAmerican]

78. They are winning because the Democrats no longer offer a counter balance

The Democrats are completely intimidated by the Republican party and many, particularly the 'Third Way®' devotee types, seem to suffer from a form of Stockholm Syndrome. The more to the right the Democratic party pushes, the further to the right everything else goes. This will continue until Democrats stand up to the Republicans.

This is why we need someone like Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren. They are not intimidated by the Republicans and are willing to take a hard stand against them.