It isn't so much they hate us for our freedoms. They just hate freedom.

[arely staircase]

Religious fanatics that is. I include in that assessment many fundamentalist Christians who 'want their country back' from we commies and queers and whatnots.

The barbarians on the loose in Paris right now killed cartoonists for exercising their freedom to draw cartoons. They shoot girls in the head for exercising the freedom to go to schools.

Breaking our dependence on fossil fuels and no longer letting the Israel tail wag the US dog is a must. But the fanatical hatred of modernity and freedom we saw in Paris today is the fault of nobody but the violent haters. May their end come soon.

Yo Soy Charlie.

[MohRokTah]

1. Well said.

Freedom is anathema to religious fanaticism.

[misterhighwasted]

5. It is that exactly.

Similar to the mantra from the KKKristians, Fundamentalists, & Dominionists getting louder & louder, & inserting their belief into our legislative process.
These are every bit as dangerous to our American society as Sharia Law or any other religious fanaticism anywhere in the world.

They are a sincere threat to the freedom of every peaceful human being on the planet.

Their base is in fear & control for power.

[arely staircase]

6. the American fundies really don't get that ISIS and other crazy jihadis are fellow conservatives

They don't get a lot of things.

[JI7]

2. and when you say modernity it's things like equal rights, civil rights, women's rights

which they have a problem with.not the technological stuff.

[arely staircase]

3. correct. enlightenment ideas and ideals.

They do like the modern tech.

[SunSeeker]

4. K & R

[former9thward]

7. Where are fundie Christians going around slaughtering people?

Another attempt at false equivalence.

[arely staircase]

8. Africa nt

[former9thward]

9. Africa is a continent and a big one.

Maybe you could be more specific. Most of the killings in the Central African Republic have been by Muslims killing Christians. There have been instances where Christian militias have retaliated. That is hardly the same as the urban terrorism practiced by fundie Muslims in Western cities. Again false equivalence.

[arely staircase]

10. ...

http://www.alternet.org/story/150899/how_american_evangelism_triggered_the_murder_of_gays_overseas


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-peron/whos-helping-finance-ugandas-kill-the-gays-bill-you-are_b_2229509.html


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/04/world/africa/04uganda.html?_r=0

[Violet_Crumble]

15. I wonder if the poster yr replying to will try to claim the Muslims made those Christians do it? n/t

[Recursion]

18. Ah, you beat me to it (nt)

[DemocraticWing]

22. Let's not forget Eastern Europe either.

Heck, didn't some fundamentalist Christians just bully their transgendered daughter to death in Ohio a couple weeks ago?

[progressoid]

11. In recent history?

Abortion providers.

- March 10, 1993: Dr. David Gunn of Pensacola, Florida was fatally shot during a protest. He had been the subject of wanted-style posters distributed by Operation Rescue in the summer of 1992. Michael F. Griffin was found guilty of Gunn's murder and was sentenced to life in prison.[10]

- July 29, 1994: Dr. John Britton and James Barrett, a clinic escort, were both shot to death outside another facility, the Ladies Center, in Pensacola. Rev. Paul Jennings Hill was charged with the killings. Hill received a death sentence and was executed on September 3, 2003. The clinic in Pensacola had been bombed before in 1984 and was also bombed subsequently in 2012.

- December 30, 1994: Two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, were killed in two clinic attacks in Brookline, Massachusetts. John Salvi was arrested and confessed to the killings. He died in prison and guards found his body under his bed with a plastic garbage bag tied around his head. Salvi had also confessed to a non-lethal attack in Norfolk, Virginia days before the Brookline killings.

- January 29, 1998: Robert Sanderson, an off-duty police officer who worked as a security guard at an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama, was killed when his workplace was bombed. Eric Robert Rudolph, who was also responsible for the 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing, was charged with the crime and received two life sentences as a result.

- October 23, 1998: Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot to death with a high-powered rifle at his home in Amherst, New York.[11] His was the last in a series of similar shootings against providers in Canada and northern New York state which were all likely committed by James Kopp. Kopp was convicted of Slepian's murder after being apprehended in France in 2001.

- May 31, 2009: Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed by Scott Roeder as Tiller served as an usher at a church in Wichita, Kansas.[12]

[former9thward]

12. And you think this is the equivalent of urban mass terrorism?

Its not. Those isolated incidents were not done as an attempt by a religion to impose their will on everyone. But keep trying.

[progressoid]

13. Really?

opponents of choice have directed more than 6,400 reported acts of violence against abortion providers since 1977, including bombings, arsons, death threats, kidnappings, and assaults, as well as more than 175,000 reported acts of disruption, including bomb threats and harassing calls.

http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/media/fact-sheets/abortion-anti-choice-violence.pdf

Sure sounds like 'attempts by a religion to impose their will' to me.

After 9/11 I had an interesting discussion with the husband of a nurse who worked in a clinic that provided abortions. We were discussing the not yet passed Patriot Act. He sort of joked that he hoped her clinic could get some money for protection since they felt terrorized every day going to work. Of course that would never happen because terrorists are brown and worship a different god.

[NewDeal_Dem]

23. "were not done as an attempt by a religion to impose their will on everyone."

are you for real? killing abortion providers is political terrorism, period, and is done to impose the murderers' will on others -- if not everyone, as many as possible.

by murdering and terrorizing abortion providers and shutting down clinics

and it's putatively religious people doing some of the murdering

[yeoman6987]

27. You call that recent???????

[progressoid]

37. Yup.

It still affects people today.

[yeoman6987]

38. Ok. Just wondering. Have a good one.

[liberal_at_heart]

14. So Christian fundies are better than Muslim fundies? good grief. Grow up.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

21. Massively better on average, yes, although there are exceptions.

There do exist a few Christian fundamentalists as bad as the strains of fundamentalism that are mainstream in the Islamic world, but not very many.

[sabrina 1]

16. A whole lot of them went to Iraq. That 'crusade' led by our very own fundie leader who was

told by God to invade Iraq, killed over ONE MILLION innocent Iraqis, including children.

I am stunned by the bigotry towards Muslims which I saw from Faux and Bush supporters during that dreadful era, but here?

I'm getting a sense of deja vu.

It's so very sad.

I remember the General who held 'prayer meetings' before they went out to kill those 'camel jockeys', one of the names we heard so often from them.

How quickly we forget.

Three murderers killed 12 people in France. It is a tragedy for their families and friends.

Our fundie leaders led us into an invasion that killed over one million and tortured untold numbers of others.

70% of us supported that massive crime.

How many Muslims supported that murder in France?

[former9thward]

26. False.

The Iraq war had nothing to do with Christian fundies. If you are saying Bush and crew are fundies then you calling all Christians fundies which is nonsense. Now you are saying it is "bigotry" to condemn the people behind the deaths in Paris.

[sabrina 1]

28. It doesn't matter what you think. It is what the Iraqis think. What does the word 'crusade'

mean to you? And what does someone claiming God told him to go kill people in a foreign nation mean to you?

If that 'leader' was Muslim coming here, 'I get my advice from my heavenly father for these things', I know for sure what we would be saying.

But no one was coming here to invade this country, that was a lie.

And yes, in many parts of the world, considering the history of crusaders etc, especially in the ME, the Iraq invasion was a Christian Crusade against Muslims, whether you like it or not.

America which claims to be a Christian nation, invading the Muslim world. To many there it's just history repeating itself. And if you think that our government wasn't aware of that and tried to dissuade people from that notion, then you weren't paying attention.

[Telcontar]

33. History fail - the Crusades were defensive wars waged

by Christiondom against the invading Muslim armies. Remember, the went to re-take the Holy Lands, not conquor them.

Something that just irritates me no end, not knowing historical context.

[sabrina 1]

34. I know the context, I also know the perception.

Something which irritates me is a lack of understanding of other cultures' perception of history. Our government however DID understand the historical perceptions in the ME and even Bush the lesser went to great lengths to try to address that perception, to no avail.

[2naSalit]

35. +1 ^^

[Recursion]

17. Uganda (nt)

[WhiteAndNerdy]

19. Have you heard of Christian Dominionism?

Don't think that there aren't Christians who would gladly slaughter anyone who doesn't agree with them. Fortunately, they aren't a large enough movement yet to do much damage in the United States, but they are working on it, and they are potentially extremely dangerous.

Here's an article if you're interested:

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_radical_christian_right_and_the_war_on_government_20131006

[former9thward]

25. Get back to me when they are engaging in urban terrorism.

[NutmegYankee]

24. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Resistance_Army

[LanternWaste]

30. Bosnia.

Good old fashioned ethnic cleaning of Muslims by Christians.

[treestar]

31. They may not do that, but they still want the rest of us to follow their rules

And they whine about it a lot. I imagine they would not kill unless they were in a similar position politically. But they are dominant enough in the West and have freedom to say they think everyone else is immoral, etc.

[eridani]

20. No they don't. They want "freedom" to pop a cap in the ass of anyone--

--who looks at them cross-eyed.

[DetlefK]

29. They hate that other people don't abide by their religious doctrine.

Religion is a system. If you strife from that system, apocalypse happens. Accordingly, the religion is not to questioned and not to be doubted.

They hate that other people are breaking that unspoken rule.

Why do creationists hate the concept of evolution? Because it's an explanation that works without God. And that's so offensive, because God HAS TO BE NEEDED. That's one of the unspoken rules.

They hate that you dare doing things, and in a negligent manner, that question the foundations of their religion.

[RationalMan]

32. I would actually refine your statement of they hate freedom.......

They actually hate anyone or anything "different". They are not born with this hatred. They learn it in fundamentalist madrassas or in fundamentalist Christian schools and fundamentalist home schools. They learn that anyone who is different from them in ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, etc. are the enemy and must be destroyed or at least contained.

Because they don't believe in anything other than what they believe or anyone other than those just like themselves, allowing anyone that is different to exist destroys their worldview. So freedom which means the ability to choose among many choices becomes an inherent part of their worldview. Freedom to make choices in religion, behavior, etc. is inherently evil.

[2naSalit]

36. Control Freaks...

it's what many organized religions either start out as or morph into... to varying degrees.

They all have rules to live by, determined by whom???? But the outcome is social engineering, by members seeing to it that the rest adhere to the "norms" established by some interpretation of whatever sacred message happens to be (whether a text, object, symbol, etc.).

IN the recent events, what I see it as is people who are so adamant to have others under their control that they resort to terrorism if they can't have things their way. In carrying out dismay at a lack of adherence to their way of life as they decree they also develop rather obscure and horrid ways to get their point across. Anything that promote free thinking or access to information other than what the wannbe controllers want anyone to know must be silenced/removed by whatever means is available to these mental giants.

It seems that what has been learned is that the horrific an offense to be made is also the way to get attention. This mess isn't going to recede back into Pandora's box easily if at all.