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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCharlie Hebdo suspect said Abu Ghraib torture pics drove him to enlist in Jihad against USA in 2008
Cherif Kouachi was previously known to the authorities, as he was convicted by a French court in 2008 of trying to travel to Iraq to fight in that countrys insurgent movement. Kouachi told the court that he wished to fight the American occupation after viewing images of detainee abuse at Abu Ghraib prison. According to Bloomberg, Kouachi had alternated between periods of smoking marijuana and attending the classes of a preacher and jihadi recruiter who was convicted in the same case of running a terrorist recruitment ring. Kouachi, who was 26 at the time of his conviction, told the court that he was relieved that he had been prevented from traveling to Iraq, that he had begun working at a supermarket, and that his main interest was rap music.
SOURCE: Foreign Policy
https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/01/07/what-we-know-about-the-attack-on-charlie-hebdos-paris-office/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=%2ASituation%20Report&utm_campaign=Sit%20Rep%20January%208%202015
nichomachus
(12,754 posts)If the victims in the Abu Ghraib pictures had been Americans and the perpetrators had been someone else. We would be bombing everyone in sight. We'd probably even go nuclear.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)bombed everything in sight, torturing and killing in a country that had nothing to do with what drove us there, 9/11.
I'm not sure if your post was intended to be sarcastic or not, but taken at face value it is the truth.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)By Prof Souad N. Al-Azzawi
Global Research, June 14, 2014
8 November 2009
The following text was presented to the Kuala Lumpur International Conference to Criminalise War, Putra World Trade Centre, 28-31 October 2009.
For two decades, the administrations of the United States of America and the United Kingdom have been waging continuous wars on Iraq to occupy this oil rich country.
The armed forces of those two countries attacked civilians with different kinds of conventional, non-conventional, and banned weapons such as cluster bombs ammunitions, napalm bombs, white phosphorous weapons and depleted Uranium weapons.
Depleted Uranium (DU) is a radioactive and chemically toxic heavy metal. If ingested, inhaled, or it enters the human body through wounds or skin, it remains there for decades.
Within the human body the (DU) particles would be a continuous source for emitting alpha particles. With its toxic effects, published research & epidemiological studies have proved that it causes serious health damages to the human body. Some of the damage to the human body is to lymph tissue, kidneys, developing fetuses, neurological system, the bones, lung fibrosis, and an increase in the risk of many types of cancer and malignancies.
Hundreds of tons of (DU) expenditure have been fired & exploded on Iraqi highly populated areas like Basrah, Baghdad, Nasriya, Dewania, Samawa, and other cities.
Exploration programs and site measurements by Iraqi and non-Iraqi researchers all proved the existence of (DU) related contamination over most Iraqi territories.
Iraqs Minister of Environment admitted in July 23, 2007 in Cairo that at least 350 sites in Iraq are contaminated with (DU). She added that the nation is facing a tremendous number of cancer cases and called for the international community to help Iraq cope with this problem.
A few years after exposure to (DU) contamination, multifold increase of malignancies, congenital malformations, miscarriages, children leukemia, and sterility cases have been registered in suburb areas of Basrah and other surrounding areas. Similar problems appeared in Falluja, where illegal weapons were also used intensively in the 2004 attack of occupation forces on the city. More than two million of the Iraqi population died since 1991 because of the synergic multiple impact of using (DU) weapons, economical sanctions, and the destruction of the health care systems.
The economical sanction that were also imposed by USA and UK administrations deprived the children and people of Iraq their rights in food, potable water, health care, sanitation and other life supporting necessities.
The USA and UK administrations have subjected the whole nation of Iraq for two decades to torture and slow death through the intentional use of radioactive weapons and the sanctions. The continuous and intentional use of radioactive weapons is a crime against humanity due to its undifferentiating harmful health effects on civilians in contaminated areas tens of years to come after the military engagements. The existence of (DU) radioactive contamination in the surrounding environment is a continuous source of exposure to low level radiation. This exposure can be considered as a systematic attack on Iraqi civilians in an armed conflict, according to Article 4 of the official regulations and Article 7 of the ICC.
This paper is submitted to present the facts and scientific evidences regarding the intentional use of the USA and UK administrations of depleted uranium weapons against the people and environment of Iraq, in addition to the health consequences that have been result from them.
Introduction:
The administrations of the United States of America and the United Kingdom have been continuously waging wars against Iraq since 1991.
CONTINUED...
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-responsibility-of-the-us-in-contaminating-iraq-with-depleted-uranium/15966
JEB
(4,748 posts)ranks up there with torture in the list of crimes against Humanity committed by our own dear USA. Horrible, horrible stuff.
QuestionableC
(63 posts)We have seen videos of Americans on their knees, a masked man behind them, slowly decapitate them. We have listened to their screams. We have watched the life drain from their eyes.
We haven't gone nuclear.
While the abu ghraib pictures are both degrading and evidence of extreme criminal misconduct, your assessment of our reaction to that hypothetical scenario is as inaccurate as it is irresponsible.
ananda
(28,858 posts)..
Bandit
(21,475 posts)Americans can be the most sadistic bastards on the face of the earth, and it doesn't take much to make them so..
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)excuses for their loser asses.
still_one
(92,130 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)NewDeal_Dem
(1,049 posts)You want to talk psychos, how about the ones who sent us to war over a lie?
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,324 posts)Not even that, I guess. No motivation.
They are crazed psycho killers bent on destruction!!!! Nothing but a desire to murder!!!!!
Blowback doesn't exist
Octafish
(55,745 posts)You are a lawyer. You know they keep records about what people said in court.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Thanks for the condescension!
UTUSN
(70,680 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)bhikkhu
(10,715 posts)The holocaust was the radicalizing foundation behind the ruthless character of the new Israeli state. Watching the Israeli bombing of apartment towers in Beirut is what Osama bin Laden stated as the reason behind his own radicalization, and the beginning of his justification for 911. Plenty of Americans were radicalized by 911, though we don't like to talk about that part (what does "the gloves are off" really mean?). Abu Graib and many other atrocities happened because of that.
In any case, whatever the reasons, the vast majority condemn atrocities rather than repeat or support them. That's as it should be; it takes a stronger character to not give in to hate.
NewDeal_Dem
(1,049 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)NewDeal_Dem
(1,049 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)louis-t
(23,292 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)malaise
(268,913 posts)Love it
KansDem
(28,498 posts)Who can out-sociopath the other? Stay tuned...!!!
pansypoo53219
(20,969 posts)i'd say georgee.
Long Drive
(105 posts)Another serial killer.
dead_head
(81 posts)Youll think it's Bush.
JEB
(4,748 posts)NewDeal_Dem
(1,049 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)have as many crazy bombers and murders running around shouting about the million dead in Iraq. Surely you can come to that simple conclusion.
Why the hostility? The BFEE is at fault for a lot of this stuff and you know that. A lot of people believed mass murders after 9/11 and look how that turned out for us in Iraq.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)The hostility comes from the fact that I am a criminal defense attorney. The last thing I would ever do is believe a criminal about their motivations.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I am a little unnerved at people calling for censorship. If we bow down to one insane cult (AQ, ISIS) we will have to bow down to all of them with that one act of capitulation. Some here are calling satire, hate speech. I think you schooled me once on hate speech, so I am keeping out of that debate.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)and was completely wrong. It wasn't just you, the entire DU lawyer division showed up to correct my ignorance. I always thought all 'hate speech' was a crime. If I would have thought about it and not insisted on knowing I was correct, I would have realized I was wrong.
Got my ass handed to me and rightfully so.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Kudos!
Rex
(65,616 posts)Had at least 3 servings of crow that evening.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)That MUST be a lie?
FWIW, I believe it. Not because I pretend to be something I'm not but because the US State Dept has said there has definitely been blowback from that torture.
Why not these two as well...
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)bad shit they want to do, anyway.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)From our actions in Iraq and Abu Ghraib.
That it has lured and created jihadis (and potential jihadis) from all over the world, some of whom have gone back to their native countries to sow mayhem.
Why do you think this particular terrorist is lying about his motivation?
Have you defended so many mass murdering Islamic terrorists before? If so, I'd love to see those cases...
NewDeal_Dem
(1,049 posts)qazplm
(3,626 posts)will take their motivation wherever they can find it.
I think if not Abu Gharib, then something else.
There's a limit to how much you can place on the actions of others to justify or even explain your own, separate, unrelated actions.
France had nothing to do with Abu Gharib. Zero. It MIGHT be more plausibly connected if they'd say attacked the US embassy. Might.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Its relevant as an interesting tidbit about him and why he started down that path.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)9/11 happened before we invaded Iraq.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)He said it was the motivation for him to be a jihadi.
Not the motivation for the massacre at the Charlie Hebdo office.
This comment precedes him being a "mass murderer".
And FWIW, I believe him.
I believe that many Muslims were motivated to fight against the US because of the tortured and abuse that occurred at Abu Ghraib.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)We all see abominations against our people (i.e. and especially Women and PoC). Every damned day. But we don't go joining murder clubs.
Violent people will ALWAYS blame their own victims and whoever else comes in handy, for the things they do.
Bandit
(21,475 posts)He was convicted of trying to go to Iraq. He never made it there and never killed a soul as far as I can see. He seems happy now he didn't go there and commit murder and that he has a job at a supermarket and likes Rap music.. You seem to have jumped the gun on this one. I hope you don't lawyer like that.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)It has something to do with the 12 people he helped kill at Charlie hebdo....that's pretty mass murder-esque
NewDeal_Dem
(1,049 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)I'm told that the trash thread feature is useful for those who aren't possessed of much curiosity.
dissentient
(861 posts)That said, there is no excuse for becoming a terrorist, absolutely none.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Dan Sanchez
AntiWar.com, January 08, 2015
One of the Paris terror suspects was radicalized by outrage over American torture and the invasion of Iraq. The Huffington Post reports:
The Associated Press said that Cherif Kouachi was tried in 2008 for helping funnel fighters to Iraq and sentenced to 18 months in prison. Kouachi told the court at the time that he was outraged by images that revealed the torture of Iraqi inmates by U.S. guards at the Abu Ghraib prison, according to the AP.
And The New York Times reports:
Chérifs interest in radical Islam, it was said at the 2008 trial, was rooted in his fury over the United States invasion of Iraq in 2003, particularly the mistreatment of Muslims held at Abu Ghraib prison.
SOURCE w/links: http://antiwar.com/blog/2015/01/08/blowback-paris-terror-suspect-radicalized-by-outrage-over-american-torture-and-invasion-of-iraq/
dissentient
(861 posts)But I still condemn the terrorist. He made the decision to do what he did.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)I'm feeling a certain pressure -- not from you, dissentient -- but on DU that I am responsible for the news I report.
For some reason, I thought just being a DUer was good enough to get past having to prove where we're coming from.
dissentient
(861 posts)I never thought you were saying anything wrong in this.
MADem
(135,425 posts)And even if you do post it, people will accuse you--nonetheless--of being responsible, or of "excusing/condoning/advocating/accepting" mass murder.
It's impossible to have a nuanced conversation -- you'll be met with "So then you think it's 'OK'..." remarks if you even try. Not by everyone, certainly...but it seems there's always one! Oh, well...
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)brush
(53,764 posts)Last edited Thu Jan 8, 2015, 08:48 PM - Edit history (3)
The 'geniuses' in the Chaney/Bush admin thought that they could bomb, invade and kill hundreds of thousands without it coming back at us (the West).
And just think, there are probably many others that became radicalized by those Abu Ghraib photos and our other atrocities, who may be yet to act.
dissentient
(861 posts)KoKo
(84,711 posts)n/t
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)cemaphonic
(4,138 posts)that we even renamed a beloved side course to "Freedom Fries" in honor of their loyalty in promoting our diplomatic and military goals.
TexasProgresive
(12,157 posts)for extremists; starting with April Glaspie giving Saddam the OK to invade Kuwait which lead to US forces in Saudi Arabia, then the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan with Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo Camp X-Ray and assorted black sites. While none of these are an excuse for terrorist acts they are definitely an incentive especially young hot heads, just as much of an incentive as attacks on our nation lead to massive amounts of enlistments in the armed services.
It is hard to believe that the idiots who got us here did not have a clue as to what they were doing to the world.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)There's no money in being greeted as liberators. The "War on (some) Terror" was, to paraphrase Bush's words, not intended to end in our lifetime. That gravy train needs a constant supply of angry young men.
NewDeal_Dem
(1,049 posts)malaise
(268,913 posts)You may be on to something
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)least to 1983, when Reagan was selling arms to the Iranians (the arms-for-hostages component of Iran-Contra) while AT THE EXACT SAME TIME dispatching RummyDummy to Baghdad as his 'secret' envoy to re-establish diplomatic relations with Iraq and provide her with military intel about Iranian troop deployments. Oh, yeah, and possibly ink a deal for chemical precursors for chemical weapons.
No biggie, you say, just American capitalism-imperialism at work. But to the people of the Middle East, it appears as if the U.S. was arming and assisting both sides in the brutal Iran-Iraq war. AT THE SAME FUCKING TIME. We may have short memories in this county but I assure you memories in the Middle East are far harder and of far greater duration.
If I, a stupid American, know this shit, you can bet it's common knowledge on the streets of every Middle Eastern capital.
Lest you think I'm imagining things or engaged in wild-eyed CT, here's a little photographic excursion down memory lane to help focus the mind:
Diclotican
(5,095 posts)KingCharlemagne
Most of the REST of the world have a greater memory when it come to this than US have - and speically in the Middle east they tend to understand - and rembember the history in lager quantity than US do..
Diclotican
lebkuchen
(10,716 posts)KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)one recommends a thread. But your sentiment is still appreciated
Octafish
(55,745 posts)That was how much of the illegal got institutionalized.
The State, the Deep State, and the Wall Street Overworld
By Prof Peter Dale Scott
Global Research, March 10, 2014
The Asia-Pacific Journal, Volume 12, Issue 10, No. 5
EXCERPT...
The Safari Club Milieu: George H.W. Bush, Theodore Shackley, and BCCI
The usual account of this super-agencys origin is that it was
the brainchild of Count Alexandre de Marenches, the debonair and mustachioed chief of Frances CIA. The SDECE (Service de Documentation Extérieure et de Contre-Espionnage) . Worried by Soviet and Cuban advances in postcolonial Africa, and by Americas post-Watergate paralysis in the field of undercover activity, the swashbuckling Marenches had come to Turkis father, King Faisal, with a proposition . [By 1979] Somali president Siad Barre had been bribed out of Soviet embrace by $75 million worth of Egyptian arms (paid for by Saudi Arabia) .95
Joseph Trento adds that The Safari Club needed a network of banks to finance its intelligence operations, With the official blessing of George Bush as the head of the CIA, Adham transformed the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI), into a worldwide money-laundering machine..96
Trento claims also that the Safari Club then was able to work with some of the controversial CIA operators who were then forced out of the CIA by Turner, and that this was coordinated by perhaps the most controversial of them all: Theodore Shackley.
Shackley, who still had ambitions to become DCI, believed that without his many sources and operatives like [Edwin] Wilson, the Safari Cluboperating with [former DCI Richard] Helms in charge in Tehranwould be ineffective. Unless Shackley took direct action to complete the privatization of intelligence operations soon, the Safari Club would not have a conduit to [CIA] resources. The solution: create a totally private intelligence network using CIA assets until President Carter could be replaced.97
Kevin Phillips has suggested that Bush on leaving the CIA had dealings with the bank most closely allied with Safari Club operations: the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI). In Phillips words,
After leaving the CIA in January 1977, Bush became chairman of the executive committee of First International Bancshares and its British subsidiary, where, according to journalists Peter Truell and Larry Gurwin in their 1992 book False Profits [p. 345], Bush traveled on the banks behalf and sometimes marketed to international banks in London, including several Middle Eastern institutions.98
Joseph Trento adds that through the London branch of this bank, which Bush chaired, Adhams petrodollars and BCCI money flowed for a variety of intelligence operations99
It is clear moreover that BCCI operations, like Khashoggis before them, were marked by the ability to deal behind the scenes with both the Arab countries and also Israel.100
It is clear that for years the American deep state in Washington was both involved with and protected BCCI. Acting CIA director Richard Kerr acknowledged to a Senate Committee that the CIA had also used BCCI for certain intelligence-gathering operations.101
Later, a congressional inquiry showed that for more than ten years preceding the BCCI collapse in the summer of 1991, the FBI, the DEA, the CIA, the Customs Service, and the Department of Justice all failed to act on hundreds of tips about the illegalities of BCCIs international activities.102
Far less clear is the attitude taken by Wall Street banks towards the miscreant BCCI. The Senate report on BCCI charged however that the Bank of England had withheld information about BCCIs frauds from public knowledge for 15 months before closing the bank.103
CONTINUED...
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-state-the-deep-state-and-the-wall-street-overworld/5372843
Then how about the time in Dallas, when the President said we weren't going to go into Vietnam?
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)Kermit helped reactionary forces in Iran overthrow a democratically-elected leftist (Mossadegh) and install a rightist (the Shah). People in Iran haven't forgotten that, nor have most people in the Middle East. Along those lines, JFK's CIA helped Saddam smash the Iraqi Communist Party, killing or jailing most of its leadership cadre on his way to consolidating Baathist Party power. Again, most Americans have forgotten (if they ever even knew this stuff), but it has the fierce urgency of NOW in the Middle East. And who are we to be saying "They should just get over it"? How would we like it if Africans or South Americans told us we should just "get over 9-11"?
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Once, when Grandpa Prescott wrote about what Ike would call the Military-Intelligence-Congressional Complex.
In 1959, then-U.S. Senator Prescott Sheldon Bush, wrote back in 1959 to brag, rightfully so, for Boeing, General Electric, Westinghouse, Remington, Chevron and the rest of the war profiteers still hogging at the trough of the U.S. Treasury in the present day in one guise or another:
To Preserve Peace Lets Show Russians How Strong We Are
By Prescott Bush
U.S. Senator from Connecticut;
member of the Senate Armed Services Committee
The Readers Digest July 1959
MANS GREATEST danger, it is said, is ignorance. In a very real sense, the Soviet Unions ignorance of our military strength may be the source of her gravest periland ours. Kaiser Wilhelm started World War I because he miscalculated Allied power. Hitler, mistakenly thinking he could blitz the world, launched World War II. Kruschev today lacks firsthand knowledge of our country; he may be given what others think he would like to hearrather than an objective report on our actual military strength. Although it seems impossible that any sane person could start a war, we would be wise to take no chances.
Why not invite the Soviet high command to the United States for a conducted tour of our military might? We are bringing Russians to see our farms and factories, our scientific laboratories and research centers; we exchange dancers and musicians. Why not have their military leaders over for the most beneficial look of all? Our expressed policy, the aim and purpose of our entire defense system, is to deter the Kremlin from starting a war. What better way to deter than to show?
What we could show is nothing more nor less than the greatest military might ever assembled in the history of the world. If the Soviet high command could see what we have, they should be of our mindthat for them to start war today would be an act of insanity.
We could start in a Pentagon briefing room. There, with maps, globes, films and sound-projection equipment to help illustrate our points, we could give them a good hard look at the distribution of American power. Then we could fly the group to Mountain Home Air Force Base in Montana, where bombers of the Strategic Air Command are on 24-hour alert, many ready to take off within 15 minutes. We could see an awe-inspiring line of B-47s, any one of which can, in a single mission, deliver explosive power equivalent to that of all the bombs dropped by all sides in World War II. We could invite the commander of the Soviet air force to ride in one of these planes, and see it refueled in the air, thus quietly demonstrating that, while most Soviet bombers would have to fly one-way missions, ours can strike any target in the world and return nonstop.
SNIP...
The demonstration at SAC should effectively dismiss from Soviet minds any speculation about the possibility of their gaining an advantage from all-out war any time soon. But we must face the fact that in a few years the Russians may be able to zero in our SAC bases with ballistic missiles. To drive this temptation out of their minds, we could show them other deterrents.
CONTINUES
The Readers Digest
July 1959 pp. 25-30
Prescott Bush detailed how Kruschev and the head of the Soviet armed forces be our guest on nuclear submarines, demonstrations of sea- and land-launched ICBMs, operations from aircraft carriers and a cruise aboard the inter-continental strategic bomber, the B-52.
The guy was on to something. You know how much they get for a B-2 these days? Two billion? Each?
Almost forgot. Prescott also discussed the strategic importance of Iraq
the very same right next door to Iran, the very place the CIA and MI6 had, five years earlier,
replaced a democratically elected government with a despot, the Shah. For the oil, Id wager.
Its fortunate for them that we want only peace with justice. Our entire record attests to that. We have no history of aggression, profess no desire for world domination, as do the Communists. Only by their continued menace have we been forced to take these measures for defense.
I ASK, Why dont we show the Russians many of these defense measures? What I would not show them is any self-satisfaction on our part about the future, any slowing-up of plans to produce the new weapons which must inevitably take the place of the old ones. I believe we are in a continuing struggle to keep on top in this business of declaring war. I think that the Russians are never to be underrated. [font color="red"]I also believe that the Communists are master bluffers that they seek to put us off by arrogant threats to Berlin and to the peace of the far Pacific, and, while our people are preoccupied with these threats, they may try to take over Iraq as the Chinese Reds have conquered Tibet.
[/font color]
So. At least three generations of the Bush Family Evil Empire have had their eyes on Iraqs oil. Interesting how Prescott mentioned Tibet's destruction by China. How was he to know his namesake would one day become head of the U.S.-China Chamber of Commerce? The article also shows how Prescott boosted the Cold War, way back in 59. Its not so odd to think that three generations of crazy petrodollar-loving warmongers would rise to the top echelons of American leadership.
This is exactly what Ike was talking about when he mentioned being on our guard against the Military-Industrial Complex. The Bushes and their wealthy supporters from both major political parties may think they're American royalty, but, as you know, KingCharlemagne, all they represent is a multi-generational mob of banksters, gangsters, and traitors.
NewDeal_Dem
(1,049 posts)federal reserve.
sketchy
(458 posts)not FDR's. Just for the record.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)thing to contemplate!
Thanks for the annotation and duly noted for all future references.
Much obliged.
reddread
(6,896 posts)but it was more like 04, and neither the Democraticans nor the Republicans
would allow the voters to know their tax dollars at works.
another election, stolen wholesale, with methods unsung.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)When Truth Tried to Stop War
Exclusive: The year 2013 is the one-decade anniversary of the U.S. political/media systems failure to stop a criminal President from launching a war of aggression on Iraq. It was a shameful time when only a few brave individuals, like the U.K.s Katharine Gun, did the right thing, ex-CIA analyst Ray McGovern reports.
By Ray McGovern
ConsortiumNews.com, Feb. 1, 2013
Ten years ago, Katharine Gun, then a 28-year-old British intelligence officer, saw an e-mailed memo from the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) that confirmed for her in black and white the already widespread suspicion that the U.S. and U.K. were about to launch war against Iraq on false pretenses.
Doing what she could to head off what she considered, correctly, an illegal war of aggression, she printed a copy of the memo and arranged for a friend to give it to the London Observer. I have always ever followed my conscience, she said, explaining what drove her to take such a large risk.
Those early months of 2003 were among the worst of times and not just because the U.S. and U.K. leaders were perverting the post-World War II structure that those same nations designed to stop aggressive wars, but because the vast majority of U.S. and U.K. institutions including the major news organizations and the nations legislatures were failing miserably to provide any meaningful check or balance.
The common excuse from politicians, bureaucrats, editors and other opinion leaders was that there was no way the momentum toward war could be stopped, so why take on the career damage that would result from getting in the way. And if Ms. Gun were made of lesser stuff, she might have hidden behind a similar self-serving excuse or found solace in other comforting rationalizations, like the government must know what its doing, or what do I, a Mandarin-to-English translator, know about Iraq.
CONTINUED...
http://consortiumnews.com/2013/01/31/when-truth-tried-to-stop-war/
DU was full of brave people in 2003. Almost all opposed Bush and Blair and their illegal, immoral and unnecessary war on Iraq. Lots stated, specifically, that blowback from the immoral, illegal, unnecessary and disastrous invasion and war would only serve to harm innocent people and create new enemies.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)And, agree about Blowback... as others have expressed.
B2G
(9,766 posts)They just provide one that will generate consternation and then sit back to watch the global circular firing squad commence.
Funny how none of these groups have claimed their actions were to avenge Bin Laden, huh?
Octafish
(55,745 posts)by William Blum
" American leaders) are perhaps not so much immoral as they are amoral. It's not that they take pleasure in causing so much death and suffering. It's that they just don't care ... the same that could be said about a sociopath. As long as the death and suffering advance the agenda of the empire, as long as the right people and the right corporations gain wealth and power and privilege and prestige, as long as the death and suffering aren't happening to them or people close to them ... then they just don't care about it happening to other people, including the American soldiers whom they throw into wars and who come home-the ones who make it back alive-with Agent Orange or Gulf War Syndrome eating away at their bodies. American leaders would not be in the positions they hold if they were bothered by such things."
-- William Blum. Killing Hope
Edited versions
Killing Hope - excerpts from introduction to Original Edition
Angola 1975-1980s
Brazil 1961-1964
Cambodia 1955-1973
Chile 1964-1973
Congo 1960-1964
Cuba 1959-1980s
Dominican Republic 1960-1966
East Timor 1975
El Salvador 1980-1994
Greece 1964-1974
Grenada 1979-1984
Guatemala 1953-1954
Guatemala 1962-1980s
Haiti 1986-1994
Indonesia 1957-1958
Indonesia 1965
Iran 1953
Laos 1957-1973
Nicaragua 1981-1990
Uruguay 1964-1970
Zaire 1975-1978
US government assassination plots since World War II
"It was in the early days of the fighting in Vietnam that a Vietcong officer said to his American prisoner: "You were our heroes after the War. We read American books and saw American films, and a common phrase in those days was 'to be as rich and as wise as an American'. What happened?
An American might have been asked something similar by a Guatemalan, an Indonesian or a Cuban during the ten years previous, or by a Uruguayan, a Chilean or a Greek in the decade subsequent. The remarkable international goodwill and credibility enjoyed by the United States at the close of the Second World War was dissipated country by country, intervention by intervention."
William Blum
Unedited versions
Killing Hope - introduction to Original Edition
Killing Hope - introduction to New Edition
Angola 1975 to 1980s
Bulgaria 1990 / Albania 1991
Cuba 1959-1980s
Ecuador 1960-1963
Haiti 1986-1994
Indonesia 1957-1958
Iraq 1990-1991
Italy 1947-1948
Uruguay 1964-1970
The American Empire: 1992 to present - 2004 edition
SOURCE w/links to details: http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/KillingHope_page.html
www.killinghope.org/
Then there's bin Laden and the modern era of terror and the contemporary period, all grotesque and most, if not all, immoral.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)"Truth never damages a cause that is just." -- Mahatma Gandhi
Perhaps, then, we could learn about one another and understand one another and work together to help one another.
malaise
(268,913 posts)in their own 'homeland'
I will never forgive Bush, Cheney et al
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026053699
Octafish
(55,745 posts)by LAURENT DAURÉ
CounterPunch WEEKEND EDITION JANUARY 9-11, 2015
Paris.
This abominable crime should obviously be condemned firmly. But if we dont think collectively about what has contributed to making it happen and dont take action in consequence, then we will not prevent it from happening again.
What is currently getting lost under all the media and political hype, predictably, is the question of the Wests responsibility in the creation of these killers. The issue here is not to excuse, but to comprehend. Beyond expressing our compassion for the victims and their families, what we need to do most right now is to try to explain and understand.
The following question should be posed with cold lucidity: How could we imagine for even an instant that we in the West can invade and humiliate country after country (Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, etc), close our eyes to the countless blunders of NATO, untiringly support Israel and its oppression of the Palestinians, provoke Iran time after time, finance and support rebels (jihadists) to destabilize the governments that we dont like (such as in Syria), and commit countless other crimes in foreign countries, without provoking repercussions on the French soil? I am surprised that such a thing has not occurred earlier (the anti-terrorist services must be working hard).
In this kind of tragic event, its necessary to make sure that emotion does not extinguish reflection. To turn around Voltaires famous phrase: we owe our considerations to the dead, and we owe only truth to the living. Now more than ever do we in France need to give critical attention to French foreign policy and its submission to the United States and NATO (which are the same thing). Our adhesion to the neo-conservative theory of the clash of civilizations turned explicitly against the Arab-Muslim world and our participation in illegitimate and immoral wars, must end. The French apathy toward the far-reaching consequences of Western aggressiveness is intolerable. Pacifism, the respect for international law, and anti-imperialism are the best means to prevent any further bloodbaths in France.
As for freedom of speech, it should obviously be vigorously defended but only as the freedom to express all ideas and opinions, and not simply those that please us or that were indifferent to.
CONTINUED...
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/01/09/bloodbath-at-charlie-hebdo/
malaise
(268,913 posts)Precisely but comprehension is no longer part of the syllabus...in any sphere.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)It has always been a mystery to me how men can feel themselves honored by the humiliation of their fellow beings. ― Mahatma Gandhi, The Story of My Experiments With Truth
malaise
(268,913 posts)human being to revel in any kind of humiliation - but I'm a well known softie.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)The only explanation for those healthy, educated, "thinking beings" who conduct evil is that they are evil or else they've got an avocation doing what they love.
malaise
(268,913 posts)By the way have you seen the real slaughter on the planet today in Nigeria - Boka Haram killed nearly 2,000 people
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/09/boko-haram-deadliest-massacre-baga-nigeria
<snip>
Hundreds of bodies too many to count remain strewn in the bush in Nigeria from an Islamic extremist attack that Amnesty International described as the deadliest massacre in the history of Boko Haram.
Fighting continued on Friday around Baga, a town on the border with Chad where insurgents seized a key military base on 3 January and attacked again on Wednesday.
Security forces have responded rapidly, and have deployed significant military assets and conducted air strikes against militant targets, said a government spokesman.
District head Baba Abba Hassan said most victims are children, women and elderly people who could not run fast enough when insurgents drove into Baga, firing rocket-propelled grenades and assault rifles on town residents.
The human carnage perpetrated by Boko Haram terrorists in Baga was enormous, Muhammad Abba Gava, a spokesman for poorly armed civilians in a defence group that fights Boko Haram, told the Associated Press.
-----------------------------
Not a peep on M$Greedia on this one.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)A bit of history that's really news...
Missionaries and the CIA
The Washington Star for July 23, 1975, reported the following:
Sources said the CIA dealt with religious groups in Latin America, Africa, Asia and elsewhere.
A spokesman for the Senate select intelligence committee said the panel's staff is investigating complaints that the CIA has had improper dealings with missionaries.
In the Salt Lake City Messenger for Jan. 1975, we suggested that the Mormon Church could provide a perfect cover for the CIA agents:
Since the Mullen Company [the firm which handled the Mormon Church's public relations] was used as a cover for the CIA, a question concerning the involvement of the Mormon Church with the CIA naturally arises . . .
The Mormon Church's world-wide activities and mission program could provide a perfect cover for CIA agents, but at the present time we have no evidence that this is actually the case. We do know, however, that the Church provides many men for the CIA. Writing in the New York Times for September 16, 1974, Wallace Turner states: "Many Mormon scholars work on contracts for the C.I.A." We recently asked a man who had taught at Brigham Young University if he had any reason to believe that the Mormon missionary program is used as a cover for CIA agents. He replied that he did not, but he went on to state that many missionaries are later recruited to CIA work. He felt that the missionary program provided good training for CIA agents. The missionaries are taught absolute obedience to authority and many of them learn foreign languages as well.
On Feb. 22, 1975, an employee of the CIA sent us a letter in which he stated:
I am currently employed with the Central Intelligence Agency and can attest to the fact that the Agency has been very fruitful in hiring Mormons, especially former missionaries.
In my section they are four . . .
I'm sorry I do not have any vital information other than what I just told you. I would appreciate it if you would keep the above information in your confidence as to not using my name. I do not feel that I have given you any secret information but people can sometimes make something out of nothing.
CONTINUED...
http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no38.htm
About a decade ago, a neighbor of mine and his family were "volunteered" by their local ultra-right wing church to become missionaries in Nigeria, stationed in Jos, smack in the middle of the Muslim-Christian power struggle, basically a civil war for control of oil revenues. He did not like hearing from me how he was being used by the corporate class who believe in their holy right to own other people's lands and lives. After a couple tours of duty, including one in which their young child contracted malaria, they came back home. Happy to report their jobs were still there, etc. Plus, their reverend got props from his bishop for the number of volunteers he could find. Gosh, this sounds like a familiar refrain to you and all good DUers, not news at all to my religious neighbors and the greedy murderers they unwittingly serve.
We know the reason for the media silence: mineral extraction rights.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)No Abu Ghraib. No war crimes. Yet the BFEE had to push their PNAC plan and that called for wholesale war in the ME. Even if it meant illegally invading a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. Even if that meant making up lies and fake evidence.
The fact that so many people believe Saddam had something to do with 9/11 should be a crime itself. Committed by those that carry water for the BFEE and the M$M paymasters that write the paychecks.
I have no doubt many of these sick people got that way or were helped pushed along by the recruiters that have tons of propaganda footage - that WE supplied them! No wonder the CIA is freaking out about the torture program. How many enemy did the CIA make with their black ops programs and their renditions to third world hellholes.
I also wonder what would be different, if WE would have (somehow I have no idea) held the prior administration responsible for war crimes and violating international law? Instead our enemies and future enemies watched us walk past that option in favor of 'looking ahead and moving forward'. Which means we don't care. Or that seems to be the way things look.
Just think how different the world would be had the stolen 2000 election never happened.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Tracking bin Laden's money flow leads back to Midland, Texas
by Wayne Madsen
In These Times, 2002
On September 24, President George W. Bush appeared at a press conference in the White House Rose Garden to announce a crackdown on the financial networks of terrorists and those who support them. U.S. banks that have assets of these groups or individuals must freeze their accounts, Bush declared. And U.S. citizens or businesses are prohibited from doing business with them.
But the president, who is now enjoying an astounding 92 percent approval rating, hasnt always practiced what he is now preaching: Bushs own businesses were once tied to financial figures in Saudi Arabia who currently support bin Laden.
In 1979, Bushs first business, Arbusto Energy, obtained financing from James Bath, a Houstonian and close family friend. One of many investors, Bath gave Bush $50,000 for a 5 percent stake in Arbusto. At the time, Bath was the sole U.S. business representative for Salem bin Laden, head of the wealthy Saudi Arabian family and a brother (one of 17) to Osama bin Laden. It has long been suspected, but never proven, that the Arbusto money came directly from Salem bin Laden. In a statement issued shortly after the September 11 attacks, the White House vehemently denied the connection, insisting that Bath invested his own money, not Salem bin Ladens, in Arbusto.
In conflicting statements, Bush at first denied ever knowing Bath, then acknowledged his stake in Arbusto and that he was aware Bath represented Saudi interests. In fact, Bath has extensive ties, both to the bin Laden family and major players in the scandal-ridden Bank of Commerce and Credit International (BCCI) who have gone on to fund Osama bin Laden. BCCI defrauded depositors of $10 billion in the 80s in what has been called the largest bank fraud in world financial history by former Manhattan District Attorney Robert Morgenthau. During the 80s, BCCI also acted as a main conduit for laundering money intended for clandestine CIA activities, ranging from financial support to the Afghan mujahedin to paying intermediaries in the Iran-Contra affair.
When Salem bin Laden died in 1988, powerful Saudi Arabian banker and BCCI principal Khalid bin Mahfouz inherited his interests in Houston. Bath ran a business for bin Mahfouz in Houston and joined a partnership with bin Mahfouz and Gaith Pharaon, BCCIs frontman in Houstons Main Bank.
The Arbusto deal wasnt the last time Bush looked to highly questionable sources to invest in his oil dealings. After several incarnations, Arbusto emerged in 1986 as Harken Energy Corporation. When Harken ran into trouble a year later, Saudi Sheik Abdullah Taha Bakhsh purchased a 17.6 percent stake in the company. Bakhsh was a business partner with Pharaon in Saudi Arabia; his banker there just happened to be bin Mahfouz.
CONTINUED...
http://inthesetimes.com/issue/25/25/feature3.shtml
Rex
(65,616 posts)between terrorists and the BFEE? Evidently that family LIKES working with mass murders. They have a long history of it with grand dad and his love for the Nazis.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)If they weren't assholes, no one would notice them. They absolutely swarmed to DU after 9-11, when DUers were finding and posting information about everyone and everything involved.
As the years progressed, they have done all they can to obfuscate the connections between the people who tried to overthrow FDR, the ones who continued to make business with the NAZIs before, during, and after the Second World War had kids and heirs, and continued to profit from the Cold War to today's War Without End on Terror and whoever is in the way of our oil.
Many times over the years, I have been ready to call it quits, Brother Rex. Then I read something so stupid, defending something so evil, I have to speak up.
malaise
(268,913 posts)Bwaaaaaaaaaaaah - not even in their minds.
Rex
(65,616 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Rex
(65,616 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)And the promotion of racist, white-nationalist shitbag Paul Craig Roberts?
It doesn't mean anything to you that those are the kinds of sources that the poster is choosing to promote at DU?
This site used to have standards, and the fevered mutterings of demented asshats like Wayne Madsen or Paul Craig Roberts were seen for what they were.
The way I see it, there are 2 possible conclusions to draw from the poster's continued promotion of these despicable authors. Either they're intellectually lazy, and didn't bother to research the opinions of the writers they're promoting, or they don't think those odious opinions are really that bad.
Personally, I'm leaning more and more toward the second conclusion.
Sid
Octafish
(55,745 posts)If you have a complaint about what I post, show where I'm wrong. Otherwise, you're exposing what kind of person you are.
BTW: I've asked you about it over the years whenever you drag out a guilt by association canard or smear one of my sources.
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2386529
Like on this thread, where you have nothing to say about the OP (Financial Times) or what Wayne Madsen wrote in his article about the Bush-bin Laden family connections (In These Times), you never do.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)I know what Wayne Madsen is. I know what PCR is.
I suspect you do too, and you're OK with it.
Edit: and I don't respond to what Wayne Madsen wrote, because I, unlike you, don't give legitimacy to the opinions of nutbar homophobic, racist, anti-Semitic, batshit crazy conspiracy theorists.
Sid
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Like you're an authority or something.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)Yeah you two go ahead and keep joking around about the BFEE being fantasy. Not like that hasn't been noticed over the years. And to pretend someone cannot make a valid point at anytime in their lives is about as immature as I've ever seen it here.
Seriously, you and Sid have fun mocking something very important to the rest of us.
Rex
(65,616 posts)that notices. You can draw whatever conclusion you want to, but by acting like a five year old and pretending someone with a bad reputation cannot make a valid point (at some other time in their life) is about the most pathetic try and controlling a conversation that I've ever seen.
Then again I think you just like to torment certain posters on this site. Octa being the main one. Your hatred for anything CT gets the best of you Sid.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)It's OK to promote Wayne Madsen at DU?
Sid
Rex
(65,616 posts)But you can pretend he cannot make a valid point all you want to...it won't change anything between you and Octa and you know this. The way to two fight is sad to watch.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)I wonder why some posters would?
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Last edited Thu Jan 8, 2015, 05:15 PM - Edit history (1)
You really do know how to pick your sources, don't you octafish of DU?
Do you spend any time learning about the assholes that you bring to DU? Or do you just regurgitate the first link that google gives you when you're looking for something bad to say about Obama.
I mean, it's bad enough when you use anti-immigrant, white-nationalist Republican Paul Craig Roberts as a source, even after being told of his racist opinion and saying that you'd stop reading him. Obviously you've never stopped.
But Wayne Madsen is far beyond even Paul Craig Roberts. Madsen is a far-right conspiracy theorist who, in 2010, ran a series of articles accusing Obama of being gay, and being secretly married to his Pakistani roommate.
Yup. You read that right.
Excuse the link to rense, but you need to be shown just what kind of asshole you're linking to:
http://rense.com/general95/onemanuel.html
You should be fucking ashamed of yourself, octafish, for trying to give legitimacy to filth like Wayne Madsen.
You've really outdone yourself this time.
Sid
PS - jurors, I'll take the hide, if you think it's warranted, but DUers who use right-wing asshole homophobic racist conspiracy theorists need to be called out on that use. And this poster has a long history of not caring what kind of source they use.
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)Wayne fucking Madsen...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6058472
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
He asked for an alert, and he got it. Sid's point about Madsen is true enough. But his personal attack on Octafish (he conducts these every other day or so) is beyond the pale. Please consider a lock.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Jan 8, 2015, 12:41 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Well, this was an easy one. Poster is ready to take a Hide, so fine -- I vote Hide for callout and personal attack.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Funny, I thought I read about that once.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5446102
Some asshole who has since been banned was instrumental in bullying the poster until she responded with an insult that got her banned. So there is that speaking truth to BS.
Rex
(65,616 posts)with the mile long list of banned members. Very interesting. The damage long term trolls do to this community is amazing.
What an amazing post. I've known about most of it for a long time, but nothing as in depth as that. Thank you ...
Octafish
(55,745 posts)So what if Wayne went off the rails with an article or if he insulted the president? The guy tries, which is a lot more than Corporate Owned Media, CON, or Corporate McPravda. Here are details with which you can learn on DU:
The short version: Back in the day when George W was defendin' Texas from the Air Force of North Vietnam, he met a man by the name of James R Bath. They both were drummed off the flight line for failing to take physical exams -- coincidently, no doubt, right about the same time the government starting testing pilots for illegal drugs 'n' such. Note how the Bush White House redacted a proper noun here and there. Here're two versions of the document:
Now this document shows that the House of bin Laden selected James R Bath to be their official U.S. business agent.
Isn't it something? Why no one in the press corpse ask Bush about this is understandable considering the subject must be off-limits to those without the necessary Top Secret clearance. In our day, they've got the media. Got to keep things fresh, Kardashian, and away from anyone suspecting Capitalism's Invisible Army. Right, SidDithers of DU?
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Because I don't and not sure why anyone would think he is.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)I thought you didn't like smears?
Or are they okay when you or a writer you like does them?
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)You know, the point of the article?
Here's more, for those interested:
James R Bath connects Bush, bin Laden, Petrodollars, BCCI & BFEE.
If Corporate McPravda should ever get off its bloated backsides long enough, they might trace and document the BFEE's many nefarious connections to Smirko's blacked-out Texas Air National Guard buddy -- James R Bath.
Named in Fahrenheit 9/11, the guy ties the BFEE to Saudi petrodollars, international terrorism, money-laundering, drug-dealing and a whole lot more, including nuclear proliferation.
The press won't t be doing the nation any favors calling Bath a linchpin or missing link: It would be doing its job. And if they do, it's likely the nation would discover what Danny Casolaro termed "The Octopus."
Here's an excerpt from a BBC interview with Bath's one-time business partner, a brave man named Bill White. There's also a link to the interview.
BILL WHITE
Interview by: Bob McKeown
Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
The Fifth Estate, Oct. 29, 2003
EXCERPT...
SO IN A SENSE, AT THE POINT WHEN YOU FIRST MET HIM WAS BATH THIS LINK BETWEEN THE BUSHES ON ONE SIDE AND THE BIN LADENS AND SAUDIS? Right. That link had already been established and Jim was actually in an operational mode. He spent probably ninety-five percent of his time, Id call it hand-holding the Arabs. He bought a bank for them. He bought an airport for them. He started an airline for them among other ventures in Houston, Texas and was the nominee or the front man for their ownership of these various entities. He would spend most of his time dealing with their interests while I concentrated on running our real estate development company.
WHAT WAS THE EXTENT OF THE INTEREST OF THE SAUDIS IN AND AROUND HOUSTON? WHY DID THEY COME TO TEXAS AT THIS TIME? Well they had a large presence here because of their oil interests (Aramco & Saudia are headquartered in Houston). And they had banking interests by virtue of Bush Seniors association with First International Bank which subsequently became InterFirst. And there was also John Connolly, who was a former Democrat who turned Republican and worked in the Nixon Administration with Bush, he ran First City NationalBank. We also had James Baker and his Baker & Botts Law Firm, so you basically had a confluence of political and business interests that were friendly to the Saudi Royal Family here in Houston.
IN THE MID SEVENTIES WHEN YOU FIRST CAME IN CONNECTION WITH JIM, WHAT DID YOU LEARN THROUGH BATH ABOUT THE EXTENT OF THE BUSH CONNECTIONS AND THE BUSH HISTORY WITH SAUDI ARABIA? Well Bath explained to me that he had been tapped by George Senior to set up a quasi-private aircraft firm that would basically engage in CIA-sponsored activities funded by the Saudi Royal Family. He explained that the Saudis had basically entered into a quid pro quo relationship with Bush and that Bush when he was CIA Director worked with the head of Saudi Intelligence and the CIA trained the Palace Guard to protect the Saudi Royal Family who was concerned about a fundamentalist revolution. And it was at that point I think that this thing got kicked into high gear and the Saudis agreed to provide surreptitious funding to the United States to fight its secret wars in Afghanistan and Nicaragua. Payback came when Bush as Vice President sent AWACS and F-15 fighter jets to Saudi Arabia and supported Saddam Hussein under the adage that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. We had the Iran-Iraq War at the time so thats really how the relationship evolved. Thats my understanding although I think in retrospect the Saudis realized that they had the power, the magic wand by virtue of their Petro-dollars and that they could use that to influence US foreign and domestic policy.
SNIP...
WHEN YOU LOOK BACK OVER ALL OF THIS HOW MUCH HAS IT COST YOU IN FINANCIAL AND OTHER WAYS? Well its cost me virtually everything, financially. I lost my business, all my real estate holdings, all of my assets were conveyed to Bath in the lawsuits, my house was foreclosed on because the mortgage was held by the Bank that was laundering the Saudi money, all my property was sold at constables sale, my Navy retirement was forfeited, and we paid a terrible price. One irony was that during this litigation process, when I refused to cooperate in the cover-up, they began to offer me money and banking business - a package worth millions of dollars if I would only sign what they called a Settlement Agreement. But as I explained to my Lawyer, the Settlement Agreement was nothing but a hush money agreement. It said basically that we could never have this conversation and that I could never disclose the Bush-Saudi relationship. I felt that to take that money and to sign that Agreement would have been to basically spit on the graves of all of my friends who died in Vietnam and were fighting to fulfill the Oath we took to protect the Constitution. So Ive paid a heavy price but I really feel like some of us have a destiny. I certainly didnt choose this destiny, but it was thrust upon me and Im trying to do my best to get the truth out. And again theres really no ill will toward Jim Bath or George Bush. Its just a matter of getting the truth out on the table and letting the consequences be what they may. But I think the truths important.
CONTINUED...
PDF of interview: http://www.serendipity.li/bush/white.pdf
Almost forgot to ask. What have you contributed to this subject, zappaman?
Does GOOGLING: zappaman + Bush + Bin Laden + HARKEN turn up anything you'd like to share?
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Whether you know it or not, doesn't really matter.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)or are you saying you agree or like this article?
THIS is why I say your source sucks...
"Men who have reportedly had sexual relations with Barack Obama
§ Donald Young, TUCC Choir director
§ Larry Sinclair, gay escort
§ Reggie Love, White House presidential assistant and Obamas body man
§ Artur Davis, US Representative from Alabama and gubernatorial candidate
§ Bill Frist, former GOP Senate Majority Leader
§ Deval Patrick, Governor of Massachusetts
The Clear and Present Blackmail Threat"
http://rense.com/general95/onemanuel.html
Plenty of more vomit at the link if anyone has the stomach to see the guy you are promoting here.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)rense, zappaman? Who knew?
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Just for shits and giggles?
Octafish
(55,745 posts)The OP.
In These Times.
On a post.
Neither are deranged, homophobic or anti-Semitic.
Why do you insist on misrepresenting what I post, zappaman?
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Is that a misrepresentation, Octafish of DU?
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Why do you say that? The article I posted has nothing to indicate that. What it does contain is information demonstrating the close connections between the Bush family and the bin Laden family. Here's more:
The Family That Preys Together
by Jack Colhoun
Covert Action Information Bulletin, Issue No. 41, Summer, 1992
GEORGE JR.'S BCCI CONNECTION
"This is an incredible deal, unbelievable for this small company," energy analyst Charles Strain told Forbes magazine, describing the oil production sharing agreement the Harken Energy Corporation signed in January 1990 with Bahrain.
Under the terms of the deal, Harken was given the exclusive right to explore for gas and oil off the shores of the Gulf island nation. If gas or oil were found in waters near two of the world's largest gas and oil fields, Harken would have exclusive marketing and transportation rights for the energy resources. Truly an "incredible deal" for a company that had never drilled an offshore well.
Strain failed to point out, however, the one fact that puts the Harken deal in focus: George Bush, Jr., the eldest son of George and Barbara Bush of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington, DC, is a member of Harken's board of directors, a consultant, and a stockholder in the Texas-based company. In light of this connection, the deal makes more sense. The involvement of Junior-George Walker Bush's childhood nickname-with Harken is a walking conflict of interest. His relationship to President Bush, rather than any business acumen, made him a valuable asset for Harken, the Republican Party benefactors, Middle East oil sheikhs and covert operators who played a part in Harken's Bahrain deal.
In fact, Junior's track record as an oilman is pretty dismal. He began his career in Midland, Texas, in the mid-1970s when he founded Arbusto Energy, Inc. When oil prices dropped in the early 1980s, Arbusto fell upon hard times. Junior was only rescued from business failure when his company was purchased by Spectrum 7 Energy Corporation, a small oil firm owned by William DeWitt and Mercer Reynolds. As part of the September 1984 deal, Bush became Spectrum 7's president and was given a 13.6 percent share in the company's stock. Oil prices stayed low and within two years, Spectrum 7 was in trouble.
In the six months before Spectrum 7 was acquired by Harken in 1986, it had lost $400,000. In the buyout deal, George "Jr." and his partners were given more than $2 million worth of Harken stock for the 180-well operation. Made a director and hired as a "consultant" to Harken, Junior received another $600,000 of Harken stock, and has been paid between $42,000 and $120,000 a year since 1986.
Junior's value to Harken soon became apparent when the company needed an infusion of cash in the spring of 1987. Junior and other Harken officials met with Jackson Stephens, head of Stephens, Inc., a large investment bank in Little Rock, Arkansas (Stephens made a $100,000 contribution to the Reagan-Bush campaign in 1980 and gave another $100,000 to the Bush dinner committee in 1990.)
In 1987, Stephens made arrangements with Union Bank of Switzerland (UBS) to provide $25 million to Harken in return for a stock interest in Harken. As part of the Stephens-brokered deal, Sheikh Abdullah Bakhsh, a Saudi real estate tycoon and financier, joined Harken's board as a major investor. *5 Stephens, UBS, and Bakhsh each have ties to the scandal-ridden Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI).
It was Stephens who suggested in the late 1970s that BCCI purchase what became First American Bankshares in Washington, D.C. BCCI later acquired First American's predecessor, Financial General Bankshares. At the time of the Harken investment, UBS was a joint-venture partner with BCCI in a bank in Geneva, Switzerland. Bakhsh has been an investment partner in Saudi Arabia with Gaith Pharoan, identified by the U.S. Federal Reserve Board as a "front man" for BCCI's secret acquisitions of U.S. banks.
Stephens, Inc. played a role in the Harken deal with Bahrain as well. Former Stephens bankers David and Mike Edwards contacted Michael Ameen, the former chief of Mobil Oil's Middle East operations, when Bahrain broke off 1989 talks with Amoco for a gas and oil exploration contract. The Edwardses recommended Harken for the job and urged Ameen to get in touch with Bahrain, which he did.
"In the midst of Harken's talks with Bahrain, Ameen- simultaneously working as a State Department consultant-briefed the incoming U.S. ambassador in Bahrain, Charles Hostler," the Wall Street Journal noted, adding that Hostler, a San Diego real estate investor, was a $100,000 contributor to the Republican Party. Hostler claimed he never discussed Harken with the Bahrainis.
Harken lacked sufficient financing to explore off the coast of Bahrain so it brought in Bass Enterprises Production Company of Fort Worth, Texas, as a partner. The Bass family contributed more than $200,000 to the Republican Party in the late 1980s and early 1990s. *9 On June 22, 1990, George Jr. sold two-thirds of his Harken stock for $848,560-a cool 200 percent profit. The move was well timed. One week after Junior sold his stock, Harken announced a $23.2 million loss in quarterly earnings and Harken stock dropped sharply, losing 60 percent of its value over the next six months. On August 2, 1990, Iraqi troops moved into Kuwait and 541,000 U.S. forces were deployed to the Gulf.
"There is substantial evidence to suggest that Bush knew Harken was in dire straits in the weeks before he sold the $848,560 of Harken stock," asserted U.S. News & World Report. The magazine noted Harken appointed Junior to a "fairness committee" to study possible economic restructuring of the company. Junior worked closely with financial advisers from Smith Barney, Harris Upham & Company, who concluded "only drastic action could save Harken."
CONTINUED...
http://mediafilter.org/caq/BushFamilyPreys.html
I think that's what really bothers you. Otherwise, you'd want people to understand that is the most important point. That, and you wouldn't follow me around for years pointing out irrelevant crapola.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)I know I wouldn't.
But I guess you have your reasons.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)It is a progressive, liberal, DEMOCRATIC magazine.
In These Times, an independent, nonprofit magazine, is dedicated to advancing democracy and economic justice, informing movements for a more humane world, and providing an accessible forum for debate about the policies that shape our future.
SOURCE: http://inthesetimes.com/about
Why you would have trouble identifying it as such is understandable.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Rense is a holocaust denier site.
Why are you pretending you don't know that?
Octafish
(55,745 posts)As I didn't bring it up, you should ask him.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)I think writers that write for holocaust denial sites are "turds".
Do you think writers that write for holocaust denial sites are "turds", Octafish of DU?
If not, why?
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Anything to write about what Madsen reported in 2001? You know, before he got smeared.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)As to why you are defending him, I cannot say.
Maybe you can tell us why, Octafish of DU?
Octafish
(55,745 posts)By Lucy Komisar
Inter Press Service, Thursday 05 April 2007
New York - Now that the U.S. Congress is investigating the truth of President George W. Bush's statements about the Iraq war, they might look into one of his most startling assertions: that there was a link between Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden.
Critics dismissed that as an invention. They were wrong. There was a link, but not the one Bush was selling. The link between Hussein and Bin Laden was their banker, BCCI. But the link went beyond the dictator and the jihadist - it passed through Saudi Arabia and stretched all the way to George W. Bush and his father.
SNIP...
The Bushes' private links to the bank passed to Bin Mahfouz through Texas businessman James R. Bath, who invested money in the United States on behalf of the Saudi. In 1976, when Bush was the head of the CIA, the agency sold some of the planes of Air America, a secret "proprietary" airline it used during the Vietnam War, to Skyway, a company owned by Bath and Bin Mahfouz. Bath then helped finance George W. Bush's oil company, Arbusto Energy Inc., in 1979 and 1980.
When Harken Energy Corp., which had absorbed Arbusto (by then merged with Spectrum 7 Energy), got into financial trouble in 1987, Jackson Stephens of the powerful, politically-connected Arkansas investment firm helped it secure 25 million dollars in financing from the Union Bank of Switzerland. As part of that deal, a place on the board was given to Harken shareholder Sheik Abdullah Taha Bakhsh, whose chief banker was BCCI shareholder Bin Mahfouz.
Then, in 1988, George Bush Sr. was elected president. Harken benefited by getting some new investors, including Salem bin Laden, Osama bin Laden's half-brother, and Khalid bin Mahfouz. Osama bin Laden himself was busy elsewhere at the time - organising al Qaeda.
CONTINUED...
http://truth-out.org/archive/component/k2/item/69782:ties-between-the-bush-family-and-osama-bin-laden
You should read more, zappaman. Oops! I forgot. You don't like to read about the BFEE.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)tammywammy
(26,582 posts)Calling someone that writes homophobic POS articles homophobic isn't a smear. The ADL calls him anti-Semitic as well. He associates with known Holocaust deniers. Pointing this out isn't a smear, it's the truth.
Just like pointing out that Paul Craig Roberts associates with a white supremacist website isn't a smear - it's the truth.
Or pointing out Israel Shamir is an anti-Semite isn't a smear, it's the truth.
So please, explain exactly how Wayne Madsen's been smeared. Don't just post random links to other topics or articles not related to the question. I just want to know how exactly you think Madsen's been smeared.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)And I would like sources and links.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)Press TV also conducted an interview with Wayne Madsen, a U.S. anti-Semitic conspiracy theorist, who claimed that the U.S. government and Congress are under Zionist control, The Israeli agenda, which the Christian and Jewish Zionists adopt one hundred percent, is what is sold to members of Congress, and that develops into legislation, resolutions; no one votes against anything [the Zionists] put up as far as a resolution.
I don't recommends Veterans Today since its a racist anti-Semitic site, but that's the kind of place Madsen's stuff ends up. http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/12/06/wayne-madsen-the-israeli-lobby-owns-the-congress-hollywood-and-the-whitehouse/
Wayne Madsen: The Israeli Lobby owns the Congress, media, Hollywood, Wall Street, both political parties, and the White House.
The rense.com (again not a website is recommend) link provided above is to Madsen's article about Obama being secretly gay.
I don't care to wade into anymore disgusting websites to prove to you that Madsen's isn't an appropriate source. Besides I know you'll just say it's a smear or some other bullshit to deflect from things he's said/written. And with this, I'm done with this thread.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Thanks for googling!
zappaman
(20,606 posts)That's not for me to say, but Wayne Madsen certainly is all of the above...
"Shortly after going to press, and after a flood of tweets from outraged readers like me, The Observer realized that the storys author, Jamie Doward, failed to conduct even the most perfunctory Google search on Madsen. That would have revealed him to be a paranoid conspiracy theorist in the tradition of Alex Jones, on whose radio show he often appears.
Recovered from my own perfunctory Google search, here are a few of Wayne Madsens greatest scoops: Norwegian terrorist Anders Breivik was an Israeli agent who murdered 69 people on behalf of his handlers in Tel Aviv. The attacks of 9/11 were masterminded in Israel and Washington, D.C., as a false flag operation. The 2000 terrorist attack on the USS Cole was also a false flag operation, executed byyou guessed it!the Israelis.
When not mumbling about the perfidious Jews, Madsen is enlightening readers on President Obamas gay past (he wore clear nail polish and was a habitué of Chicago bathhouses), speculating that a White House S&M ring order special videos from Abu Ghraib, and reporting that President Bushs feces and urine are classified top secret and captured from special toilets and flown back from Europe. (This last story is available on the Holocaust-denial website Rense.com, incidentally.)
More about this turd at http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/07/01/nsa-nutjob-anatomy-of-a-fake-observer-story.html
Man, that's some source you got there, Octafish of DU.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)What Wayne Madsen wrote in reply, when that article first appeared:
SOURCE: http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/articles/20130701/print
Gosh, it seems you like to divert attention from me when I bring up PNAC and the assholes who lied America into war, you know, Jeb Bush's friends. I'd tell you to stick to the facts, but that's not on your agenda, obviously.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)I don't associate with Holocaust deniers.
Not sure why anyone would bring them to DU and expect DUers to accept them as a source on ANYTHING.
By the way, we agree that Holocaust deniers are turds, right?
Octafish
(55,745 posts)For example (seeing how you approve of the source as ''Good Info'' in 192):
NEO CIA Torture Report Ties Cheney/Bout to 9/11 Nukes
by Gordon Duff
Veterans Today, January 8, 2015
Information received this week from the highest levels of US counter-terrorism sources have confirmed that the reputed Queen of Al Qaeda, Dr. Aafia Siddiqui, a CIA torture victim now serving 87 years in an American super-max prison, was a CIA agent when captured and was imprisoned to prevent releasing information that could eventually lead to the arrest and conviction of then Vice President Dick Cheney.
Cheney and his henchmen were silencing critics, eliminating loose ends tied to Able Danger and 9/11 and completing the process of dismantling the last vestiges of representative government in the US and Western Europe. The story today ties the Valerie Plame scandal, a CIA agent exposed as retaliation at Cheneys orders.
Our coup was when we learned that Dr. Aafia Siddiqui, termed a veritable female bin Laden was not only CIA but an asset for Valerie Plame in an investigation originally aimed at Saddam but that had turned around and was pointing directly at the White House.
The Plame investigation aided by Siddiquis proof no yellowcake/Al Qaeda plot had ever existed went much further than initially intended. Cheney was revealed to be the handler for now imprisoned Victor Bout, revealed by the FBI in a 2007 Bangkok briefing to be greatly responsible for supplying the nuclear weapons nukes used on the WTC and, according to FBI sources, a cruise missile as well that the FBI asserts was used on the Pentagon on 9/11.
Thus, when Libby/Liebowitz was convicted, it was openly accepted that he was protecting Cheney from the fallout of simply running his mouth. In truth, as we will establish, even Cheneys proven role in pushing America into an illegal war is only the tip of the iceberg.
CONTINUED...
Posted by Gordon Duff on January 8, 2015
Wow. "Libby/Liebowitz." That sounds anti-Semitic to me. Isn't it hypocritical to approve of this source, as you do in reply 192 above, zappaman?
Don't worry. I won't ask why you never post anything about the crimes of the national security state.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)I don't know.
Maybe you could clear it up?
Perhaps you should read Tammy's post again.
I think you missed the pertinent part, but you have a bad habit of overlooking things you don't want to see.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)You have yet to answer what it is that you disagree with what I quoted from Masden.
Our difference? I defend the First Amendment. So, there's that.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Like Madsen and Roberts.
Maybe someday you'll tell us?
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)You do.
Over and over again. You do.
Better believe it.
Sid
Octafish
(55,745 posts)It makes you stand out from the crowd. For instance at college you found Naomi Klein was a "drinker."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022146890#post82
Wonder what else you saw her do, siddithers of DU?
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)You've given legitimacy to racists, homophobes, anti-Semites and holocaust deniers Paul Craig Roberts, Wayne Masden, Gordon Duff and Israel Shamir.
That's a fact.
What conclusion should we draw about someone who uses these sources as often as you do, octafish?
Sid
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Which is about all you ever do, as far as I can see.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)are you saying that zap approves of what Duff writes? Duff is not a source of "good info". He's another example of the type of writer that you promote. You know, the anti-Semitic, white nationalist homophobic racist shitbags that you keep linking to?
Just like when I posted the link to rense above, it wasn't because I think rense is a good source, it's because that's where assholes like Wayne Madsen - the homophobic asshat you're promoting and defending in this subthread - publishes his repugnant opinions. Opinions that you just can't seem to distance yourself from.
The difference is that when I or tammywammy link to rense or duff, it's because we're providing evidence of the odious nature of these writers. When you link to Madsen or Paul Craig Roberts, it's because you agree with them.
And you thought Duff was just peachy when you promoted him here:
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5866956
Sid
Octafish
(55,745 posts)How do you keep track of everybody and everything?
On one post you think rense is OK. On another, not.
Same with Veterans Today. One is OK. Another not.
Isn't that hypocritcal?
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)I've never, ever, said said Veterans Today is OK.
Every single time that I've seen someone try to legitimize rense or veterans today (or Paul Craig Roberts, or Wayne Madsen), I've spoken out about their use at DU. I've reluctantly linked to rense or veterans today only to give evidence of the odious material they publish.
You, on the other hand, link to these repugnant sources in agreement with them.
That's the difference between you and I, octafish of DU.
I expose the work of homophobes, racists and anti-Semites when I see it posted at DU.
You post, promote and defend the work of these homophobes, racists and anti-Semites at DU.
Fucking disgusting.
Sid
Octafish
(55,745 posts)So, it rang a bell when you smeared me for quoting PC Roberts in regard to Don Siegelman.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2080243
Readers will see that I didn't "endorse the work of homophobes, racists and anti-Semites." That's just what you wrote, siddithers of DU.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)You do. And either don't care that they're racists, homophobes and anti-Semites, or you agree with their racist, homophobic and anti-Semitic opinions.
Which is it?
Sid
polly7
(20,582 posts)They were spectacularly successful in Iraq, as it led to the destabilization of the whole region and has led to the same now in countries all around the world - as intended. How do you maintain billion dollar industries like the bloody war machine, weapons manufacturers etc. spreading weapons all around the world, who rely on having 'terrorists' to fight without creating more and more of them. Even if they look like terrorists (any 'adult-looking male' and all those innocents around them - think Fallujah, Pakistan) - innocent human beings supplying the bloody war and weapons industry. PNAC worked just as intended, and the Bush family, Cheney's Haliburton, Oil industry cronies .... all have successfully benefited for decades.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)I, too, am sick and tired of seeing examples of the (far-right) Paranoid Style of American Politics sourced here on DU.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)We also know, from the same FBI report, that Poppy heard someone threaten to kill President Kennedy.
So, why did Bush wait until AFTER JFK was assassinated to come foward with the warning?
Here's the document:
Here's a transcript of the text:
TO: SAC, HOUSTON DATE: 11-22-63
FROM: SA GRAHAM W. KITCHEL
SUBJECT: UNKNOWN SUBJECT;
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT
JOHN F. KENNEDY
At 1:45 p.m. Mr. GEORGE H. W. BUSH, President of the Zapata Off-Shore Drilling Company, Houston, Texas, residence 5525 Briar, Houston, telephonically furnished the following information to writer by long distance telephone call from Tyler, Texas.
BUSH stated that he wanted to be kept confidential but wanted to furnish hearsay that he recalled hearing in recent weeks, the day and source unknown. He stated that one JAMES PARROTT has been talking of killing the President when he comes to Houston.
BUSH stated that PARROTT is possibly a student at the University of Houston and is active in political matters in this area. He stated that he felt Mrs. FAWLEY, telephone number SU 2-5239, or ARLINE SMITH, telephone number JA 9-9194 of the Harris County Republican Party Headquarters would be able to furnish additional information regarding the identity of PARROTT.
BUSH stated that he was proceeding to Dallas, Texas, would remain in the Sheraton-Dallas Hotel and return to his residence on 11-23-63. His office telephone number is CA 2-0395.
# # #
Here's background:
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKbushG.htm
Another FBI memo, from a week later, was unearthed just prior to the 1988 election. In it, "Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency" was debriefed by J Edgar Hoover himself about the Pro- and Anti-Castro Cuban communities in Miami. 1988 Presidential Candidate Vice President ex-DCI ex-China legation head George Bush said "It wasn't me." Surprisingly and contrary to longstanding policy, the agency even released the name of another "George Bush" who worked at CIA for six months or so. That guy was surprised to find reporters on his doorstep and told them he was a photo analyst on loan from another government department and he never was debriefed by J Edgar Hoover, let alone for the anything to with the assassination of President Kennedy.
Here's a transcript of the above:
Date: November 29, 1963
To: Director
Bureau of Intelligence and Research
Department of State
From: John Edgar Hoover, Director
Subject: ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY
NOVEMBER 22, 1963
Our Miami, Florida, Office on November 23, 1963, advised that the Office of Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in Miami advised that the Department of State feels some misguided anti-Castro group might capitalize on the present situation and undertake an unauthorized raid against Cuba, believing that the assassination of President John F. Kennedy might herald a change in U. S. policy, which is not true.
Our sources and informants familiar with Cuban matters in the Miami area advise that the general feeling in the anti-Castro Cuban community is one of stunned disbelief and, even among those who did not entirely agree with the President's policy concerning Cuba, the feeling is that the President's death represents a great loss not only to the U. S. but to all of Latin America. These sources know of no plans for unauthorized action against Cuba.
An informant who has furnished reliable information in the past and who is close to a small pro-Castro group in Miami has advised that these individuals are afraid that the assassination of the President may result in strong repressive measures being taken against them and, although pro-Castro in their feelings, regret the assassination.
The substance of the foregoing information was orally furnished to Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency and Captain William Edwards of the Defense Intelligence Agency on November 23, 1963, by Mr. W. T. Forsyth of this Bureau.
# # #
I do remember that GHWB was head of the CIA when the Church Committee was looking into the CIA assassination programs. He made things all friendly-like and turned what had been a serious hunt for truth under previous DCI Colby into another dog-and-pony show.
And the Church Committee represents the last time our elected representatives worked to reign in the Secret Government agencies. That was 1975.
So there's how George Herbert Walker Bush is tied to the assassination of President Kennedy by a pair of official FBI memos. And one wonders why America is in the shape it's in?
Austerity for the majority and a state of permanent war, where "money trumps peace."
PS: You are most welcome, YoungDemCA! Glad to clear up your smear in post 159!
PPS: Come to think of it, those FBI memos really open up George Herbert Walker Bush for questions. I wonder when the Corporate Owned News will get around to asking him about them?
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Why are so many DUers jumping all over Octafish as though he has said or implied that the massacres these brothers did was NOW connected to Abu Ghraib.
The connection to Abu Ghraib is that it was the precipitating factor in turning these guys into jihadis.
Doesn't anyone read the linked articles anymore?
The assumptions around here make DU suck.
randome
(34,845 posts)I think that could be said for most people. No one is 'inspired' to kill innocent people.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]
840high
(17,196 posts)SomethingFishy
(4,876 posts)or murder a bunch of children in a school, bomb an NAACP headquarters, lure Gays to my apartment, kill them and eat them. I wouldn't take food from hungry children, I wouldn't allow veterans or anyone else for that matter be homeless. I wouldn't Drone 28 civilians for every 1 terrorist, I wouldn't invade a country on fake intelligence, and then torture it's citizens to get the connection I need to justify the invasion.
I could do this all day. Those assholes who opened fire in France? No different than The Boston Bombers, The Sandy Hook shooter, Gacy, Bundy Or Dick Fucking Cheney... Assholes with a grudge. Maybe we should put them on TV so they can justify what they did, it's what we do with our Leaders.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Traveling from all over the globe to join the murderous new caliphate, someone is holding a gun to their heads and making them join?
Same thing with Al Qaeda? Or the Muslim Brotherhood?
randome
(34,845 posts)Anyone care to do the math? All fighting for the 'right' to fight and kill some more in the name of religion. You're right, no one is holding a gun to their heads.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
Rex
(65,616 posts)Nice try.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Kaleva
(36,294 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Said Kouachi's ID card found in 1 getaway car used in shooting
By John-Thor Dahlburg, Jamey Keaten, CBC
The Associated Press Posted: Jan 08, 2015 5:01 PM ET Last Updated: Jan 08, 2015 8:43 PM ET
The two French brothers wanted in the newspaper office bloodbath in Paris were already known to U.S. authorities and had been put on the American no-fly list, a senior U.S. counterterrorism official said Thursday.
Another U.S. official said the older brother, Said Kouachi, had travelled to Yemen. Though there is conflicting information about what he did while in Yemen, U.S. and European sources told Reuters he trained with Al-Qaeda in the Arab Peninsula, one of the group's most active affiliates.
SNIP...
They were identified as suspects after the older brother's ID card was found in the getaway car, authorities said.
Witnesses said the gunmen in the attack claimed allegiance to al-Qaeda's offshoot in Yemen.
Both Kouachi brothers the Paris-born offspring of Algerian parents were already known to French counterterrorism authorities.
Cherif, a former pizza deliveryman, had appeared in a 2005 French TV documentary on Islamic extremism and was sentenced to 18 months in prison in 2008 for trying to join up with fighters battling in Iraq.
SNIP...
A French security official, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter, said that American authorities had shared intelligence with France indicating that Said had travelled to Yemen several years ago for training. French authorities were seeking to verify the information, the official said.
CONTINUED...
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/suspects-in-charlie-hebdo-shooting-were-on-u-s-no-fly-list-for-years-1.2894432
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
Rex
(65,616 posts)mwrguy
(3,245 posts)lebkuchen
(10,716 posts)"Dick," and Rumsfuck.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)by Alfred W. McCoy
Mr. McCoy is J.R.W. Smail Professor of History at the University of Wisconsin-Madison and the author of A Question of Torture: CIA Interrogation, from the Cold War to the War on Terror (New York: Metropolitan Books, 2006).
In April 2004, Americans were stunned when CBS broadcast those now-notorious photographs from Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison, showing hooded Iraqis stripped naked while U.S. soldiers stood by smiling. As this scandal grabbed headlines around the globe, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld insisted that the abuses were "perpetrated by a small number of U.S. military," whom New York Times columnist William Safire soon branded "creeps"--a line that few in the press had reason to challenge.
When I looked at these photos, I did not see snapshots of simple brutality or a breakdown in military discipline. After more than a decade of studying the Philippine militarys torture techniques for a monograph published by Yale back 1999, I could see the tell-tale signs of the CIAs psychological methods. For example, that iconic photo of a hooded Iraqi with fake electrical wires hanging from his extended arms shows, not the sadism of a few creeps, but instead the two key trademarks of the CIAs psychological torture. The hood was for sensory disorientation. The arms were extended for self-inflicted pain. It was that simple; it was that obvious.
After making that argument in an op-ed for the Boston Globe two weeks after CBS published the photos, I began exploring the historical continuity, the connections, between the CIA torture research back in the 1950s and Abu Ghraib in 2004. By using the past to interrogate the present, I published a book titled A Question of Torture last January that tracks the trail of an extraordinary historical and institutional continuity through countless pages of declassified documents. The findings are disturbing and bear directly upon the ongoing bitter debate over torture that culminated in the enactment of the Military Commissions law just last October.
From 1950 to 1962, the CIA led a secret research effort to crack the code of human consciousness, a veritable Manhattan project of the mind with costs that reached a billion dollars a year. Many have heard about the most outlandish and least successful aspect of this research -- the testing of LSD on unsuspecting subjects and the tragic death of a CIA employee, Dr. Frank Olson, who jumped to his death from a New York hotel after a dose of this drug. This Agency drug testing, the focus of countless sensational press accounts and a half-dozen major books, led nowhere.
But obscure CIA-funded behavioral experiments, outsourced to the countrys leading universities, produced two key findings, both duly and dully reported in scientific journals, that contributed to the discovery of a distinctly American form of torture: psychological torture.With funding from Canadas Defense Research Board, famed Canadian psychologist Dr. Donald O. Hebb found that he could induce a state akin to psychosis in just 48 hours. What had the doctor donedrugs, hypnosis, electroshock? No, none of the above.
CONTINUED...
http://www.hnn.us/article/32497
louis-t
(23,292 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Let's find out, is what a Democracy would do.
"One must not fear truth, because it is a friend of man and of his freedom." -- Mahatma Gandhi
ann---
(1,933 posts)They were atrocious. Any human being would be horrified by them - as much as horrified by the actions of terrorists.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)By Mark Karlin, Truthout | Interview
Sunday, 16 November 2014 00:00
EXCERPT...
Mark Karlin: In your third chapter, you state that the "corporate leaders at its vanguard can rightly be considered the true winners of the war on terror." You refer to these people as post-9/11, corporate entrepreneurs and opportunists. Can you provide a couple of brief examples?
James Risen: In chapter three, I focus on corporate leaders who have largely tried to avoid the limelight, but have nonetheless been among those who have profited the most from the war on terror. People like the Blue brothers, whose company, General Atomics, has produced the Predator and Reaper drones, the signature weapons of the global war on terror.
I also write about J. Philip London, executive chairman of CACI, the huge defense and intelligence contractor that was caught up in the Abu Ghraib scandal but then managed to continue to thrive in the war on terror, and Robert McKeon, a clever Wall Street maven who acquired Dyncorp as it profited from rival Blackwater's problems. McKeon eventually committed suicide, and the sale of assets by his estate after his death provided a glimpse at the massive wealth accumulated by the corporate leaders who benefit from being on the top rung of the war on terror.
Your prologue refers to the "homeland security-industrial" complex (including the related wars since 9/11) costing an estimated $4 trillion. Where did all that money go?
The Homeland Security Industrial Complex operates differently than the traditional Military Industrial Complex. Instead of spending on ships, airplanes and other big weapons systems, much of the money goes to secretive intelligence contractors who perform secret counterterrorism work for the CIA, the FBI, the Pentagon and other agencies. Because it is all classified, there is no public debate about the massive amounts of money being poured into these contractors. And with little oversight, there is no way to determine whether these contractors have performed well or poorly. Four trillion dollars is the best estimate for the total price tag of the war on terror, including the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and much of it has gone to shadowy contractors. It is one of the largest transfers of wealth in American history, and yet it has gone largely unnoticed.
Part III of Pay Any Price is entitled "Endless War." You divide this section into chapters focusing on "The War on Decency," "The War on Normalcy" and the "The War on Truth." That is an inversion of the government-vaunted war to protect Homeland Security into an immoral attack on the nation's moral integrity. How did we arrive at such an abandonment of our ethical standards?
If you recall, just after 9/11, Vice President Dick Cheney famously said that "the gloves come off." What that really meant was that the US was deregulating national security, getting rid of the rules and regulations that had governed national security since the post-Watergate reform era of the 1970s. As a result, we have conducted the war on terror in a climate in which there are few rules or limits on American actions. The message was clearly sent throughout the government that nothing should get in the way of stopping any future terrorist attack - and that message created a dangerous climate that we still live in today.
You discuss the relentless and tenacious persecution of whistleblowers under the Bush and Obama administrations (with the pace steadily picking up under the latter). In your many examples, you describe the harassment and shunning of Diane Roark, a staff member of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. Can you briefly explain what she tried to expose and how she was hounded into retirement and beyond?
I consider Diane Roark to be one of the unsung heroes of the post-9/11 era. A former Reagan White House staffer, at the time of 9/11 Roark was the House intelligence committee staffer in charge of oversight of the National Security Agency. Soon after 9/11, NSA staffers told her about the NSA's new domestic spying operation. She immediately realized that it was illegal, but at first thought it must be a rogue operation. She went to the staff director and minority staff director at the House intelligence committee to warn the chairman and ranking member about the operation, but the word came back that she should keep her mouth shut and stop talking about it. She realized that the chairman and ranking member already knew about it.
She then started to try to warn other senior officials that she knew throughout the government about the program, but found at every turn that they already knew about it and were involved in a massive cover-up. Finally, she had a dramatic showdown with NSA director Michael Hayden about the program, in which she told him that it was illegal. He responded that if it ever became public, the NSA and the Bush Administration could count on the "majority of nine" - meaning the approval of the Supreme Court. She then tried to get a message to the Supreme Court chief justice, but never heard back. She never leaked to the press and retired from the government depressed that she hadn't been able to stop the program.
Years later, after The New York Times disclosed the existence of the NSA domestic spying program, the FBI raided her house, because they wrongly thought that she was the source for the story. She had kept her concerns within the system and was still persecuted. Her case shows that it would have been impossible for Edward Snowden to stay within the system and do what he did.
KBR (formerly Kellogg, Brown and Root), at the time it was first contracted as a multibillion-dollar contractor to support the US military in Iraq and Afghanistan (and elsewhere), is described in detail by you as a company "too big to fail" in the war on terror. Can you provide some highlights?
KBR was by far the largest military contractor in the Iraq war. It provided food, housing and other basic services to US military personnel in Iraq and throughout the war received about $39 billion in contracts. At the peak of the war, KBR had more personnel in Iraq than did the British Army. The United States simply could not have fought the war in Iraq without KBR. By providing almost all basic services in combat zones for US military personnel, KBR allows the United States to fight wars without a draft.
If the Army doesn't need soldiers to peel potatoes and instead has contractors do it, then it can fight wars of choice with a relatively small volunteer Army, and thus doesn't need to seek the political approval of American voters before it goes to war. So KBR is critical to the war effort; thus the chairman of the largely toothless commission on wartime contracting threw up his hands and wondered aloud whether KBR was too big to fail.
KBR was investigated for a series of problems - including the electrocution of US soldiers in barracks in Iraq with faulty wiring and the use of massive burn pits at US bases in Iraq that allegedly led to lung problems among US military personnel. But despite the investigations, KBR kept its massive contracts.
CONTINUED...
http://truth-out.org/progressivepicks/item/27425-james-risen-the-post-9-11-homeland-security-industrial-complex-profiteers-and-endless-war
No wonder so many people in the same crowd who like seeing Siegelman incarcerated also want to see Risen behind bars. The truth hurts!
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)Military contractors
"Intelligence" Contractors
Oil Companies
Wall Street
Airline Industry
Pharma Industry
Manufacturing Industries
Gas Guzzling Auto Manufacturers
And many more.
They all came with bottomless pits in the palms of their hands demanding their piece of the national wealth pie, and little w happily handed it to them ribbon and all. No wonder they don't want to pay taxes with the "I'm getting my money from tax money, so why should I have to pay taxes on it" attitude.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)(connected to my OP about throwing rocks, in this case throwing rocks at both sides).
What was the real purpose of Abu Ghraib which was well known to Iraqis but hidden from the American people for so long?
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Public Enemy Number One: the Public
by KEVIN CARSON
CounterPunch JUNE 17, 2013
Its important, when listening to the official shapers of opinion in the media, to ask ourselves what they really mean by the words they use. As Orwell pointed out in Politics and the English Language, those in power use language to obscure meaning more often than to convey it.
A good example is the recurrence of phrases like endangered our national security and aided the enemy, from people like Eric Holder, Peter King and Lindsey Graham, in reference to leaks by people like Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden. Now, they certainly intend to evoke certain associations in the minds of listeners with their word choices. If youre not careful, you may find yourself responding in just the way the users intend allowing their words to conjure up in your mind homes, families, neighbors, churches, a whole way of life, threatened with invasion and destruction by a nameless, faceless enemy in the words of Orwells Two-Minute Hate, the dark armies barbarians whose only honour is atrocity.
But if you look behind the words, their actual meaning is something entirely different. To the kinds of people who throw around such words, national security is a corporate-state world order enforced by the United States, run by people like themselves, which enabling global corporations to extract resources and labor from the people of the world and live off unearned rents. The enemy is you. And the danger is that you might figure out whats going on and disturb their cozy little setup.
CONTINUED...
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/06/17/public-enemy-number-one-the-public/
They need to keep the pics and news from us. The administration refuses to release the worst of the images.
As for Abu Ghraib, what George Herbert Walker (Conqueror of Panama and the Highway of Death) what Bush told Sarah McLendon, a White House press corps reporter, who'd asked in 1992: "What will the people do if they ever find out the truth about Iraq-gate and Iran contra?"
Sarah, if the American people ever find out what we have done, they would chase us down the street and lynch us.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)Him believing Obama is gay is just the tip of the iceberg...
"Shortly after going to press, and after a flood of tweets from outraged readers like me, The Observer realized that the storys author, Jamie Doward, failed to conduct even the most perfunctory Google search on Madsen. That would have revealed him to be a paranoid conspiracy theorist in the tradition of Alex Jones, on whose radio show he often appears.
Recovered from my own perfunctory Google search, here are a few of Wayne Madsens greatest scoops: Norwegian terrorist Anders Breivik was an Israeli agent who murdered 69 people on behalf of his handlers in Tel Aviv. The attacks of 9/11 were masterminded in Israel and Washington, D.C., as a false flag operation. The 2000 terrorist attack on the USS Cole was also a false flag operation, executed byyou guessed it!the Israelis.
When not mumbling about the perfidious Jews, Madsen is enlightening readers on President Obamas gay past (he wore clear nail polish and was a habitué of Chicago bathhouses), speculating that a White House S&M ring order[ed] special videos from Abu Ghraib, and reporting that President Bushs feces and urine are classified top secret and captured from special toilets and flown back from Europe. (This last story is available on the Holocaust-denial website Rense.com, incidentally.)
More about this turd at http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/07/01/nsa-nutjob-anatomy-of-a-fake-observer-story.html
Man, that's some source you got there, Octafish of DU.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)that they regularly pollute DU with sources that hold odious views.
Now, I'm beginning to wonder if they hold some of the same views. Why else would they choose to defend racists like Paul Craig Roberts, or anti-Semitic, homophobes like Wayne Madsen.
I wonder if there's any source so repugnant that they'd refuse to promote their work at DU. Can David Duke or Alex Jones be coming up next? Pat Buchanan? Jerome Corsi? Anne Coulter?
Nothing would shock me anymore.
Sid
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Some folks just don't care, I suppose.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)Any source-no matter how delusional or paranoid or bigoted-is fair game in showing that the "BFEE" are responsible for everything, from the JFK assassination to 9/11 to the Holocaust to faking the moon landing to chemtrails to crop circles -along with the Rockefellers and Rothschilds, of course.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Both of these guys had ancestors and cronies in the slave trade.
Baron de Rothschild and Prescott Bush, share a moment and some information, back in the day.
The people who tried to overthrow FDR in 1933 had kids.
And their offspring* and connected cronies in crime are the ones* screwing America now.
What's different today, is we don't have Smedley Butler or FDR to stop them.
* Of course, it's not just a few rich families's offspring who screw the majority today. They've hired help and built up the giant noise machine to continue their work overthrowing the progress FDR and the New Deal brought America for 80 years.
Why would the nation and world's richest people do that? Progress costs money. And they don't want to pay for it, even when they've gained more wealth than all of history put together. Instead, whey continue to work -- legally, through government and lobbyists -- to amass even more, transferring the wealth of the many to themselves.
And instead of an armed mob led by a war hero on a white horse, as planned in 1933, their weapon since Pruneface made his first payment to the Ayatollah has been "Supply Side Economics." To most Americans, that means Trickle-Down.
Rothschild and Freshfields founders had links to slavery, papers reveal
By Carola Hoyos
Financial Times
Two of the biggest names in the City of London had previously undisclosed links to slavery in the British colonies, documents seen by the Financial Times have revealed.
Nathan Mayer Rothschild, the banking familys 19th-century patriarch, and James William Freshfield, founder of Freshfields, the top City law firm, benefited financially from slavery, records from the National Archives show, even though both have often been portrayed as opponents of slavery.
Far from being a matter of distant history, slavery remains a highly contentious issue in the US, where Rothschild and Freshfields are both active.
Companies alleged to have links to past slave injustices have come under pressure to make restitution.
JPMorgan, the investment bank, set up a $5m scholarship fund for black students studying in Louisiana after apologising in 2005 for the companys historic links to slavery.
CONTINUED (with registration, etc) ...
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7c0f5014-628c-11de-b1c9-00144feabdc0.html
Generation upon generation, knowing only service to power and property.
Kevin Phillips called them a ''multigenerational family of fibbers.''
The Barreling Bushes
Four generations of the dynasty have chased profits through cozy ties with Mideast leaders, spinning webs of conflicts of interest
by Kevin Phillips
Published on Sunday, January 11, 2004 by the Los Angeles Times
EXCERPT...
During these years, Bush's four sons - George W., Jeb, Neil and Marvin - were following in the family footsteps, lining up business deals with Saudi, Kuwaiti and Bahraini moneymen and cozying up to BCCI. The Middle East was becoming a convenient family money spigot.
Eldest son George W. Bush made his first Middle East connection in the late 1970s with James Bath, a Texas businessmen who served as the North American representative for two rich Saudis (and Osama bin Laden relatives) - billionaire Salem bin Laden and banker and BCCI insider Khalid bin Mahfouz. Bath put $50,000 into Bush's 1979 Arbusto oil partnership, probably using Bin Laden-Bin Mahfouz funds.
In the late 1980s, after several failed oil ventures, the future 43rd president let the ailing oil business in which he was a major stockholder and chairman be bought out by another foreign-influenced operation, Harken Energy. The Wall Street Journal commented in 1991, "The mosaic of BCCI connections surrounding Harken Energy may prove nothing more than how ubiquitous the rogue bank's ties were. But the number of BCCI-connected people who had dealings with Harken - all since George W. Bush came on board - likewise raises the question of whether they mask an effort to cozy up to a presidential son."
Other hints of cronyism came in 1990 when inexperienced Harken got a major contract to drill in the Persian Gulf for the government of Bahrain. Time magazine reporters Jonathan Beaty and S.C. Gwynne, in their book "The Outlaw Bank," concluded "that Mahfouz, or other BCCI players, must have had a hand in steering the oil-drilling contract to the president's son." The web entangling the Bush presidencies was already being spun.
CONTINUED...
http://faculty.plts.edu/gpence/html/kevin_phillips.htm
Of course no one's heard of the BFEE. While they wonder how Saddam got WMDs, Wall Street gets ahead.
napkinz
(17,199 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)napkinz
(17,199 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)Uh huh.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Thank you for seeing the big picture, cwydro.
From the good people at the National Security Archives at GWU:
Science, Technology and the CIA
PDF suitable for, ah, framing: http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB54/st02.pdf
Not that Capitalism's Invisible Army had anything to do with anything like all that -- but some rogue elements or state might -- just for war without end and resultant profits to infinity and beyond.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Starting to think there always will be Gitmo.
Turbineguy
(37,317 posts)These clowns live in countries with excellent educational systems and good social safety nets. The don't participate in the educational systems, ensuring thereby that they have no usable skills (for a normal civilized country anyway). They are then open to radicalization and embracing its lowest common denominator, murdering people.
blm
(113,042 posts)into a worldwide force that could be manipulated at will for the advancement of the global fascist agenda.
It's horrifying that they will use and abuse every religion they can to achieve their goal.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)By Christopher Simpson
Covert Action Quarterly 58/Fall 1996
EXCERPT...
NSDD 159. MANAGEMENT OF U.S. COVERT OPERATIONS, (TOP SECRET/VEIL‑SENSITIVE), JAN. 18,1985
The Reagan administration's commitment to significantly expand covert operations had been clear since before the 1980 election. How such operations were actually to be managed from day to day, however, was considerably less certain. The management problem became particularly knotty owing to legal requirements to notify congressional intelligence oversight committees of covert operations, on the one hand, and the tacitly accepted presidential mandate to deceive those same committees concerning sensitive operations such as the Contra war in Nicaragua, on the other.
The solution attempted in NSDD 159 was to establish a small coordinating committee headed by Vice President George Bush through which all information concerning US covert operations was to be funneled. The order also established a category of top secret information known as Veil, to be used exclusively for managing records pertaining to covert operations.
[font color="red"]The system was designed to keep circulation of written records to an absolute minimum while at the same time ensuring that the vice president retained the ability to coordinate US covert operations with the administration's overt diplomacy and propaganda.
Only eight copies of NSDD 159 were created. The existence of the vice president's committee was itself highly classified.[/font color] The directive became public as a result of the criminal prosecutions of Oliver North, John Poindexter, and others involved in the Iran‑Contra affair, hence the designation "Exhibit A" running up the left side of the document.
CONTINUED...
SORRY, blm. LINK NOW BUSTED BEYOND. If anyone wants a copy, PM me.
blm
(113,042 posts)regularly here at DU. Some serious scrubbing has been going on the last few years. Perhaps in preparation for Jeb2016 as some of us predicted in 2009.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Pointing out something worth knowing makes it easier for those who benefit from keeping it hidden to find it and destroy/buy/hide/co-opt, etc etc.
What Orwell and Bernays said:
Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed: everything else is Public Relations. -George Orwell
Propaganda got to be a bad word, because of the Germans using it, so what I did was to try to find some other words; so we found the words council on public relations.' -Edward Bernays, Author of the seminal 1928 Propaganda, Father of the PR industry, and Nephew to Sigmund Freud
SOURCE: https://fiftycenturies.wordpress.com/2012/06/14/journalism-and-propaganda-orwell-and-bernays-on-what-is-and-what-is-not-public-relations/
The thing is -- the disadvantages are outweighed by the benefit of truth: IT WANTS TO BE SPREAD.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)in the second term of the current administration.
We had a few years of general sanity in the first term. The dark cloud lifted and there was a feeling of freedom again as things gradually got better. The Tea Party of course provided some comic craziness but even that just showed that freedom of speech was back. I was amazed at what they could get away with compared to the Bush years.
But now I feel like we're back in those neocon dark times again where nothing quite makes sense.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)Pooka Fey
(3,496 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Suspects in Charlie Hebdo shooting were on U.S. no-fly list for years
Said Kouachi's ID card found in 1 getaway car used in shooting
By John-Thor Dahlburg, Jamey Keaten, CBC
The Associated Press Posted: Jan 08, 2015 5:01 PM ET Last Updated: Jan 08, 2015 8:43 PM ET
The two French brothers wanted in the newspaper office bloodbath in Paris were already known to U.S. authorities and had been put on the American no-fly list, a senior U.S. counterterrorism official said Thursday.
Another U.S. official said the older brother, Said Kouachi, had travelled to Yemen. Though there is conflicting information about what he did while in Yemen, U.S. and European sources told Reuters he trained with Al-Qaeda in the Arab Peninsula, one of the group's most active affiliates.
SNIP...
They were identified as suspects after the older brother's ID card was found in the getaway car, authorities said.
Witnesses said the gunmen in the attack claimed allegiance to al-Qaeda's offshoot in Yemen.
Both Kouachi brothers the Paris-born offspring of Algerian parents were already known to French counterterrorism authorities.
Cherif, a former pizza deliveryman, had appeared in a 2005 French TV documentary on Islamic extremism and was sentenced to 18 months in prison in 2008 for trying to join up with fighters battling in Iraq.
SNIP...
A French security official, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter, said that American authorities had shared intelligence with France indicating that Said had travelled to Yemen several years ago for training. French authorities were seeking to verify the information, the official said.
CONTINUED...
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/suspects-in-charlie-hebdo-shooting-were-on-u-s-no-fly-list-for-years-1.2894432
Pooka Fey
(3,496 posts)other than to have made going to the airport a major pain in the ass for the last 14 years. Wish innocent people didn't have to die to teach me that lesson.
I'm always been worried that Agent Mike was going to plant my name on that NO-FLY after I've let loose one of my especially pissed off DU Rants.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)playing their game.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)By Mark Karlin, Truthout | Interview
Sunday, 16 November 2014 00:00
EXCERPT...
Mark Karlin: In your third chapter, you state that the "corporate leaders at its vanguard can rightly be considered the true winners of the war on terror." You refer to these people as post-9/11, corporate entrepreneurs and opportunists. Can you provide a couple of brief examples?
James Risen: In chapter three, I focus on corporate leaders who have largely tried to avoid the limelight, but have nonetheless been among those who have profited the most from the war on terror. People like the Blue brothers, whose company, General Atomics, has produced the Predator and Reaper drones, the signature weapons of the global war on terror.
I also write about J. Philip London, executive chairman of CACI, the huge defense and intelligence contractor that was caught up in the Abu Ghraib scandal but then managed to continue to thrive in the war on terror, and Robert McKeon, a clever Wall Street maven who acquired Dyncorp as it profited from rival Blackwater's problems. McKeon eventually committed suicide, and the sale of assets by his estate after his death provided a glimpse at the massive wealth accumulated by the corporate leaders who benefit from being on the top rung of the war on terror.
Your prologue refers to the "homeland security-industrial" complex (including the related wars since 9/11) costing an estimated $4 trillion. Where did all that money go?
The Homeland Security Industrial Complex operates differently than the traditional Military Industrial Complex. Instead of spending on ships, airplanes and other big weapons systems, much of the money goes to secretive intelligence contractors who perform secret counterterrorism work for the CIA, the FBI, the Pentagon and other agencies. Because it is all classified, there is no public debate about the massive amounts of money being poured into these contractors. And with little oversight, there is no way to determine whether these contractors have performed well or poorly. Four trillion dollars is the best estimate for the total price tag of the war on terror, including the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and much of it has gone to shadowy contractors. It is one of the largest transfers of wealth in American history, and yet it has gone largely unnoticed.
Part III of Pay Any Price is entitled "Endless War." You divide this section into chapters focusing on "The War on Decency," "The War on Normalcy" and the "The War on Truth." That is an inversion of the government-vaunted war to protect Homeland Security into an immoral attack on the nation's moral integrity. How did we arrive at such an abandonment of our ethical standards?
If you recall, just after 9/11, Vice President Dick Cheney famously said that "the gloves come off." What that really meant was that the US was deregulating national security, getting rid of the rules and regulations that had governed national security since the post-Watergate reform era of the 1970s. As a result, we have conducted the war on terror in a climate in which there are few rules or limits on American actions. The message was clearly sent throughout the government that nothing should get in the way of stopping any future terrorist attack - and that message created a dangerous climate that we still live in today.
You discuss the relentless and tenacious persecution of whistleblowers under the Bush and Obama administrations (with the pace steadily picking up under the latter). In your many examples, you describe the harassment and shunning of Diane Roark, a staff member of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. Can you briefly explain what she tried to expose and how she was hounded into retirement and beyond?
I consider Diane Roark to be one of the unsung heroes of the post-9/11 era. A former Reagan White House staffer, at the time of 9/11 Roark was the House intelligence committee staffer in charge of oversight of the National Security Agency. Soon after 9/11, NSA staffers told her about the NSA's new domestic spying operation. She immediately realized that it was illegal, but at first thought it must be a rogue operation. She went to the staff director and minority staff director at the House intelligence committee to warn the chairman and ranking member about the operation, but the word came back that she should keep her mouth shut and stop talking about it. She realized that the chairman and ranking member already knew about it.
She then started to try to warn other senior officials that she knew throughout the government about the program, but found at every turn that they already knew about it and were involved in a massive cover-up. Finally, she had a dramatic showdown with NSA director Michael Hayden about the program, in which she told him that it was illegal. He responded that if it ever became public, the NSA and the Bush Administration could count on the "majority of nine" - meaning the approval of the Supreme Court. She then tried to get a message to the Supreme Court chief justice, but never heard back. She never leaked to the press and retired from the government depressed that she hadn't been able to stop the program.
Years later, after The New York Times disclosed the existence of the NSA domestic spying program, the FBI raided her house, because they wrongly thought that she was the source for the story. She had kept her concerns within the system and was still persecuted. Her case shows that it would have been impossible for Edward Snowden to stay within the system and do what he did.
KBR (formerly Kellogg, Brown and Root), at the time it was first contracted as a multibillion-dollar contractor to support the US military in Iraq and Afghanistan (and elsewhere), is described in detail by you as a company "too big to fail" in the war on terror. Can you provide some highlights?
KBR was by far the largest military contractor in the Iraq war. It provided food, housing and other basic services to US military personnel in Iraq and throughout the war received about $39 billion in contracts. At the peak of the war, KBR had more personnel in Iraq than did the British Army. The United States simply could not have fought the war in Iraq without KBR. By providing almost all basic services in combat zones for US military personnel, KBR allows the United States to fight wars without a draft.
If the Army doesn't need soldiers to peel potatoes and instead has contractors do it, then it can fight wars of choice with a relatively small volunteer Army, and thus doesn't need to seek the political approval of American voters before it goes to war. So KBR is critical to the war effort; thus the chairman of the largely toothless commission on wartime contracting threw up his hands and wondered aloud whether KBR was too big to fail.
KBR was investigated for a series of problems - including the electrocution of US soldiers in barracks in Iraq with faulty wiring and the use of massive burn pits at US bases in Iraq that allegedly led to lung problems among US military personnel. But despite the investigations, KBR kept its massive contracts.
CONTINUED...
http://truth-out.org/progressivepicks/item/27425-james-risen-the-post-9-11-homeland-security-industrial-complex-profiteers-and-endless-war
jwirr
(39,215 posts)found a foe that just continues to fight.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)By RICHARD ESPOSITO, MATTHEW COLE and BRIAN ROSS
ABC News, Dec. 2, 2009
As he justified sending 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan at a cost of $30 billion a year, President Barack Obama's description Tuesday of the al Qaeda "cancer" in that country left out one key fact: U.S. intelligence officials have concluded there are only about 100 al Qaeda fighters in the entire country.
A senior U.S. intelligence official told ABCNews.com the approximate estimate of 100 al Qaeda members left in Afghanistan reflects the conclusion of American intelligence agencies and the Defense Department. The relatively small number was part of the intelligence passed on to the White House as President Obama conducted his deliberations.
President Obama made only a vague reference to the size of the al Qaeda presence in his speech at West Point, when he said, "al Qaeda has not reemerged in Afghanistan in the same number as before 9/11, but they retain their safe havens along the border."
A spokesperson at the White House's National Security Council, Chris Hensman, said he could not comment on intelligence matters.
Obama's National Security Adviser, Gen. James Jones, put the number at "fewer than a hundred" in an October interview with CNN.
CONTINUED...
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/president-obamas-secret-100-al-qaeda-now-afghanistan/story?id=9227861
Guess six years of bugsplat operations since then served to boost that number. It really is a good time to be part of the Carlyle Group.