So...Someone Tell Me How Gefilte Fish is Offensive, Or Why Hit a Kosher Supermarket?

[msanthrope]

Last edited Fri Jan 9, 2015, 04:03 PM - Edit history (1)

I mean, look...I've smelled and eaten gefilte fish....to be polite. It's pretty disgusting. But I can't understand why it would provoke a gunman to take over a Kosher Supermarket. I mean, just order the pastrami fer chrissakes.....

I've read thread after thread and poster after poster writing about how the attack at Hebdo happened, in part, on the fact that they went too far....they were too raunchy, too rude. That satire sometimes goes too far.....

I'm just wondering what the Supermarket did. I mean, did they import their meat from Katz's?

Yes....this is sarcasm.....

[trumad]

1. I'll have what she's having.

[msanthrope]

2. One of the greatest lines, ever....nt

[GreatGazoo]

13. but the reply should have been: "okay, one fake orgasm for the lady, and you sir?"

[Initech]

3. I'm sure the odor one emits after consuming large amounts of Gefeltefish would be offensive.

[msanthrope]

7. My ex was made to sleep on the couch after visits to his fish-cooking Bubbe. nt

[B2G]

4. Is this supposed to be funny?

Because it's not. It's pretty fucking offensive.

[msanthrope]

5. Thank you for making my point. Satire, and sarcasm, often are not funny. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. "...Why Hit a Kosher Supermarket? "

Because the terrorists correctly assumed Jews would be there?

[B2G]

21. I missed your sarcasm reference at the bottom

You never can quite tell these days...

[HappyMe]

6. PCIntern said that people would be shopping for Shabbat.

I am assuming that this would mean that the market would be more likely to be busy. They have just confirmed that the hostages from the super market are all alive. The terrorist is dead, and he is connected with the brothers. There is a woman on the lose who is also involved with the super market terrorist.

They planned this whole thing very well. They knew when the editorial meeting was, knew everyone's name in the office. The editor's name has been on Al Quedas list for quite awhile.

They (ABC NY) said that the French Jewish community had been preparing for an attack. Museums and synagogues have very tight security.

[msanthrope]

8. Yes--gunmen dead, hostages alive.### Vive la France! nt

Last edited Fri Jan 9, 2015, 02:23 PM - Edit history (1)

###unconfirmed...some hostages may have perished.

[branford]

25. Unfortunately, we still have the dead and injured French police officer and Charlie Hebo employees.

Moreover, although I will certainly shed no tears for the dead terrorist filth, I was hopeful that the authorities might have been able to capture them alive for trial.

[leftynyc]

29. No - 4 are dead

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/01/09/paris-hostage-supermarket/21489449/

[HappyMe]

32. Oh my god.

[leftynyc]

44. All they were doing was

getting ready for Shabbos. It's not bad enough that Jews are warned against wearing a yarmulke or a Star of David, now they getting killed grocery shopping. Cartoonists and (likely) women shopping. It's heartbreaking.

[HappyMe]

50. It is heartbreaking.

Killed because you were shopping for dinner.

I wasn't aware that Jewish people were warned not the wear those things. That's a damn shame. Is this only in France?

[leftynyc]

55. I know a warning went

to Copenhagen also back in October.

[HappyMe]

59. One of the reporters from the scene

had been speaking with a French reporter during a break. When the reporter came back on, he said that the Frenchman said that intelligence there had dropped the ball on this one.

[Mosby]

66. Also Malmo Sweden

[elleng]

9. Glad its :sarcasm: cause gefilte fish is NOT disgusting!

I like it a lot, tho don't have it often.

http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/Classic-Gefilte-Fish-40014

See? And yes, I'll have what SHE's having, please!!!

[msanthrope]

10. I admit I've only had it out of the jar, or made by the ex's bubbe.....

It was easier to swallow the cow tongue.

[elleng]

11. I've only had it out of the jar too, I think,

tho it's possible my grandma made it 'fresh.' I do recall watching her make chopped liver.

As to 'tongue,' I like that a lot too! Makes a great sandwich! Obviously, it takes all kinds!

[msanthrope]

12. Now...chopped liver? I could eat that by the pound. nt

[elleng]

22. Me too.

Not quite by the pound, but I get the point. Has to be good, with lots of onions. My cousin who made it well has passed, so now I don't have a place to find it. I have found a nice French cafe with very good pate, tho!

[immoderate]

51. Tongue is reciprocal. When you're tasting it, -- it's tasting you.

Gefilte is all good, with enough horseradish, and if you avoid the stuff that's packed in gelatin -- ugh.

--imm

[elleng]

82. HAHAHA!

[edhopper]

14. I grew up eating gefilte fish

and enjoy it to this day.

As well as stuffed derma, kasha varnishka and chopped liver.

[Warpy]

30. Well, you can have my share of the chopped liver

but gefilte fish, prepared with exquisitely fresh fish in a port city, can be very, very good.

It can also be very, very bad.

There doesn't seem to be any middle ground.

[leftynyc]

31. I make awesome

kasha varnishka. I have to be quiet about it because when my family knows I made a batch, I'm handing it all over to them.

[HappyMe]

16. Oh no!

The tweet sent out by the French Ambassador that the hostages were safe is now in doubt. No confirmation of anything yet.

[benz380]

17. I'm reading that 4 hostages were killed at the deli from several news sites. n/t

[HappyMe]

19. I have ABC news on right now.

They still have not confirmed anything about hurt or dead hostages.

[benz380]

23. I saw it on the following sites. May be wrong though.

http://news.sky.com/story/1405106/hostages-killed-in-paris-supermarket-siege

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

http://www.foxnews.com/ (Don't count on this one)

[KittyWampus]

18. The point you miss is the pouring gasoline on a fire and fanning it. How would you miss that point?

I've been reading a bunch of stuff from France.

The cartoons were unquestionably pouring volatile fuel on a fire just like Le Pen and the Far Right is doing.

It's entirely possible to condemn the murderers and their extremism while acknowledging the political reality in France/Europe AND the extent to which the cartoons had been playing into the Far Right/Neo Nazi's hands.

You want to learn a little about the actual situation, check the last two entries on my Journal and I'll add a third later.

[elleng]

24. Yes, the cartoons were unquestionably pouring volatile fuel on a fire.

Thanks for recognizing and stating this.

[Bonx]

27. I hope more fuel is added every day

until it burns out.

[msanthrope]

28. What fuel did the supermarket pour? nt

[KittyWampus]

33. it was caught in the backlash. And the backlash also includes NeoNazis gaining momentum.

[leftynyc]

69. These killers were not neo-nazis

They were Muslim fanatics.

[msanthrope]

26. Well....does that mean the attacks on Hebdo were justified? What did the Kosher market

denizens do?

[KittyWampus]

34. No, didn't you read my post where I plainly said there is a context involved? And the market

was caught in the backlash.

And part of that backlash also included the NeoNazis gaining even more support, more seat in Parliament ACROSS EUROPE.

The the fact you ask if I felt the attack was justified is a disgusting attack on me.

[msanthrope]

42. I respect your viewpoint on this...I don't agree with it, and I did

not mean to imply you thought these attacks justified.

[Aerows]

43. Or the people

that owned the gas station who were held at gunpoint to fuel their vehicles and rob the place?

It's just tragic.

[msanthrope]

60. I get where Kitty is coming from....there is no doubt that Hebdo meant to provoke and inflame. They

meant to anger.

I think where she and I differ is on the moral calculus of that is how much time we should spend contemplating that when the response was so out of proportion.

Come up to person in a bar, call their girlfriend the "c-word" and throw a beer, and no one's gonna be real surprised when you get bopped on the nose.

But what if someone at the bar shoots you, and the table of people you were with, because they were offended by your use of the "c-word?"

At that point, the response is so out of proportion no one gives a shit about the underlying act. Nor should they---

[Aerows]

61. Well, in the first example

it isn't just the word, it's the assault by throwing a beer on them/at them. Which at that point, it has become self-defense, correct?

In the second ... it's an unpleasant word, but it isn't an assault.

[msanthrope]

63. Well....I'm not saying the beer made contact. It's actually the same scenario, but the responses

are different. That wasn't clear.

The point I am trying to hit home--and I think this relates to Mike Brown and Trayvon Martin, and Eric Garner....is that the disproportionality of the response ought to affect the moral calculus of the underlying act. In other words....the penalty for writing hateful shit isn't death.

[Aerows]

67. Of course it isn't

And you are correct, it does tie in with disproportionate responses.

So much hate.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

36. Irrelevant. Cartoons are not a license to murder no matter how offensive.

The savages that would do something like this are the ones to blame. Our job isnt to cater to and reward their savagery. We are not beholden to their beliefs.

[KittyWampus]

38. I didn't suggest it gives a license. Not even close. But I WILL point to the hatefulness

of the message and how it plays into the Far Right/Neo Nazis in France and Europe.

Some of us will both support the right to create satire while simultaneously criticizing the hatefulness of said satire AND mention the political reality/context.

[Aerows]

45. They murdered people.

They robbed a gas station at gunpoint.

They held hostages (and shot some of them) in a grocery store.

I think that is the very peak of hatefulness.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

57. If anyone is playing to the far right it is the far right.

Anyone who is not far right gets to make up their own minds. It can just as easily be said that catering to the savagery of the killers turns people away from the left.

Let's not allow that to happen.

[HERVEPA]

56. The helll they were just like LePen! That's pure bullshit.

[uppityperson]

65. The Euro RW and religious fundies are provoking each other for the excuse of

continuing to hurt others and cause fear, anger, mor upset to stay in power, to cause a holy war (so to speak)?

I wish it would be recognized that the importance is not how can we hurt you who has hurt us, or "who stated it" but who will end it, this awful cycle. Unfortunately none of those extremists will do so but continue it, like bush did with Iraq after 911. There is no excuse to hurt others, who will stop?

It isn't a simple thing, they wrote something I disagree with, but lack of jobs, no way to improve things, bigotry, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear.

Unless someone stops the cycle, until someone does, it will continue. Ordinary people getting killed to further the politics of the powerful and powerless.

[Union Scribe]

76. Well put. nt

[pintobean]

20. Gefilte Fish!

[Rhinodawg]

35. To ALL Jews on DU

It is now open season on Jews worldwide.

If you think I'm exaggerating, you really haven't been paying attention.

These people would have killed you as fast as they would have killed me.

No more looking away.

[leftynyc]

40. It breaks my heart

that the hostages in the market were killed - all they were doing was getting ready for Shabbos. Cartoonists and (likely) women just trying to get ready for the end of the workweek. Madness.

[COLGATE4]

41. Yep.

[Aerows]

48. I'm pretty sure

these demented terrorists killed a few Christians along the way, and some Atheists, too.

I'm in your corner along with every human being that believes in not murdering innocent people.

[bullwinkle428]

53. Not to mention the Muslim police officer they brutally shot in the head

at close range following the Charlie Hebdo attack.

[leftynyc]

68. Do you think it's merely

a coincidence this was a kosher market?

[Aerows]

72. Absolutely not!

It sounds as though this was deliberately planned in that location at this time.

Bigotry and insanity .

[SidDithers]

37. When it's compared to fried chicken and watermelon...

Sid

[msanthrope]

39. You see what we did there? nt

[JustAnotherGen]

52. I totally saw it and love you

For taking this opportunity to make such a wonderful point!

[MineralMan]

46. Gefilte Fish is not offensive. Lutefisk is offensive.

Still, I eat neither of the two.

[msanthrope]

49. Garrison Keillor rec'd this post. nt

[ChosenUnWisely]

47. Would it make it better if they LIKED Gefilte Fish and killed them anyway?

[trotsky]

54. You make an excellent point.

A disturbing number of DUers tell us basically that the cartoonists should have known they were risking their lives. That their creations were racist/homophobic/insulting etc. So therefore they should not have been surprised that someone would kill them.

What will be the excuse now? I suspect we will hear only silence.

[leftynyc]

70. You'll notice the worst

of those who try and minimize what happened in Paris this week by saying "it's horrible, but" are nowhere near this thread. Pathetically predictable.

[trotsky]

71. Conspicuous absence indeed. n/t

[msanthrope]

73. As I noted above, there comes a point when the response to insult is so disproportionate you simply

no longer give a shit about the insult. There's no insult in print that merits the death penalty. I can't believe I have to write that.

[trotsky]

74. You and I have both been on DU for a very long time.

I think you'll agree that we've seen some amazing shit over the years.

But the last couple of days have topped anything I can remember. I can't believe you have to write that either, but I'm glad you did.

[msanthrope]

75. Yesterday, I saw a poster defend two seperate terrorist groups....in one thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026055227

That entire thread is possibly the greatest trainwreck of moral stupid I have ever witnessed here.

[trotsky]

77. "the greatest trainwreck of moral stupid I have ever witnessed here"

Brilliant phrase. And I see now why I'm struggling with that one in another thread.

[msanthrope]

79. Link? nt

[trotsky]

80. The insanity starts with post #1 on this thread, but here's where that one goes off the rails:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6063426

[msanthrope]

81. Holy crap that thread was puke worthy....more moral stupid. nt

[Rhinodawg]

78. I saw that.

That was one.....there is another one that can justify any attack, esp on jews.

of course he thinly veils it.

[treestar]

58. Gefilte Fish I can handle

but not canned sardines. If there are any British groceries . . .

[msanthrope]

64. Library open today, yeah? nt

[sakabatou]

83. I actually like it